IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-19
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01:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 001 001 051 Pre-fail Always FAILING_NOW 4867
01:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not hugely important data on there, but that's my router/download-box hdd
01:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not sure if i have a small enough hdd to replace it
01:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's currently 120GB, i think. doesn't make a lot of sense to put a 500GB-2TB hdd in there.
01:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i might have some old 40GB disks, but i'm not sure if they're already bad
01:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: it's not quite useful to have a headless box display a mexxage "press F1 to continue" on SMART-failure
01:43:16 <__ln__> usually there's a "halt on no errors" setting in bios
01:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression i set that
01:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but i disabled smart in bios now, so it should avoid that anyway
01:48:50 <z-MaTRiX> heres my example of drawing a simple line
01:49:38 <z-MaTRiX> line is still to be cleaned up
01:50:29 <__ln__> indentation is missing
01:51:15 <z-MaTRiX> will look after that
01:51:43 <z-MaTRiX> (oh and it has unix lineends)
01:51:59 <__ln__> it's suboptimal to calculate sqrt(2) in the loop condition, because it obviously doesn't change.
01:55:26 <z-MaTRiX> actually r/sqrt(2) is constant too
01:55:40 <__ln__> i have an unused 1TB disk which i don't dare use for anything important although it appears to work fine
01:55:58 <z-MaTRiX> and whats the problem with it?
01:57:58 <__ln__> once, though only once, i had severe problems with reading data from it, and i thought i'm actually going to lose a bunch of photos and other irreplaceable stuff. but next day, when i ran dd_rescue on it, everything worked flawlessly again.
01:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 1TB is still overkill for that box
01:59:39 <z-MaTRiX> if mayt0r then it will die soon
01:59:53 <__ln__> the disk reports zero bad sectors, but running the long smart test always just stops at 20%.
02:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> WDC WD1200BB-00DAA1
02:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> served me well over the past almost-a-decade
02:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> might be 2004-ish
02:03:24 <z-MaTRiX> it lloks like it has reached the theshold then
02:03:48 <z-MaTRiX> so bits are rotting now
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02:05:00 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: btw, are you in a need of ide or sata disk?
02:05:31 <z-MaTRiX> i have bought a hitachi 500GB recently
02:05:44 <z-MaTRiX> hitachi has the leading-edge technology since 2009
02:06:10 <z-MaTRiX> a more correct and stable solution of disc magnetizing method
02:06:21 <z-MaTRiX> plus advanced materials
02:06:43 <__ln__> "Western Digital to Acquire Hitachi Global Storage Technologies."
02:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i really doubt there's actually that much difference
02:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and HDD prices skyrocketed in the past few weeks
02:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's said that the prices are now totally overvalued. the actual production pause only warranted like a 10% increase, but they increased like over 100%
02:13:20 <__ln__> if one can increase the price of a product by 100% and people still buy it, then it would be stupid not to.
02:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they did with fuel
02:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a weird weekly change in fuel prices that i don't really understand
02:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> fuel is most expensive on thursdays, and cheapest on sunday
02:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> by a margin of around 5¢
02:19:38 <__ln__> i also seem to have an unused 120GB ide disk, which isn't failing afaik
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02:20:03 <__ln__> unused as in "not in active use", not "brand new"
02:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or i opt for a brandnew low-power system with like a 40GB SSD
02:22:19 <__ln__> at some point SSDs were not actually lower-power than HDDs, but that may have changed
02:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm sure there are more low-power systems than a 7 year old athlon-1GHz
02:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
02:25:34 <__ln__> my 1.2GHz ARM system consumes 7W (plus HDD's power)
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02:32:49 <z-MaTRiX> also note that newer hdds usually 80-120GB and up has FSB (fluid dynamic bearings)
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06:46:25 <andythenorth> is that a town growth patch? :P
06:47:11 <andythenorth> or is that goals?
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06:55:13 <andythenorth> the caps N is a bit funky
06:55:33 <andythenorth> all of the caps seem a bit fuzzy
06:56:39 <andythenorth> also the upper caps are smaller than the lower caps ?
06:59:30 <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes, otherwise the ones with diatrics would go outside of their boxes :(
07:00:37 <andythenorth> that is challenging...
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07:27:14 <dihedral> looks like some beta or rc is about to pop out of the ground
07:28:57 <Rubidium> though it did with the smaller capitals :(
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08:18:20 <planetmaker> hm, I see mono-spaced letters here somewhere :-)
08:29:57 <Rubidium> where? what am I missing? :)
08:40:16 <andythenorth> Rubidium: looks ok
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08:43:04 <andythenorth> Vehicles in vehicles!
08:43:13 <andythenorth> 3 tile locks are annoying!
08:43:22 <andythenorth> ^^ my work is done
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12:41:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23260 /trunk/media/extra_grf/chars.nfo: -Codechange: abstract away some NFO by macros
12:42:45 <TrueBrain> I am more thinking neutrinos
13:00:19 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is a special cheat to move trains faster
13:06:31 <Zuu_> This NoGo looks interesing. Does it use Squirrel for scripting?
13:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "if there are no tracks, they will have no option other than to fly, and flying is faster"?
13:11:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's a special bitcode
13:13:04 * andythenorth has to paint boats and can't play any NoGo
13:14:42 <Zuu_> Cool. I have been thinking a bit on having my airport work as a starting ground to get into applying squirrel to tutorial or goals, but currently I've turned my attention to other projects.
13:15:14 <frosch123> hmm, nogo might actually work for tutorials
13:16:27 <Zuu_> I can't wait to take a look at the implementation when a get to a PC tomorrow.
13:17:51 <Zuu_> I asserted it can be found by looking around a bit :-)
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13:21:22 <frosch123> in the usual place, yes, but not the current script
13:26:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if I length adjust these new trams will they still fit in n tiles (I can't remember value of n, but it was one of your design goals)
13:26:41 <andythenorth> (it's straightforward solution otherwise)
13:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, they will get longer
13:27:30 <andythenorth> does that bother you? I'm not concerned
13:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i can check how much, if you have more detailed design
13:28:07 <andythenorth> if you drop me the link to the ascii scheme for the existing trams I'll look...
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13:55:50 <appe_> this video describes my feeling while clearing a city with the magical bulldozer.
14:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> why does kate not offer IBM437 encoding, only IBM850?
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15:31:53 <TomyLobo> is there any easy way to upgrade all trains to maglev?
15:32:46 <TomyLobo> i could imagine a patch that allows setting up replacements not only between rails and electric rails but between all types
15:32:53 <TomyLobo> and then just upgrading the depot
15:34:02 <planetmaker> use the universal railtype newgrf in your games
15:34:11 <planetmaker> or your obvious imagination to write that patch
15:34:48 <TomyLobo> so no one has had that idea before?
15:35:12 <planetmaker> many people have had
15:35:21 <planetmaker> no-one found it interesting enough to write a patch
15:38:22 <glx> only patch I remember was autoconvert train when converting rails, but that's ugly
15:38:59 <planetmaker> as said: there's the universal railtype newgrf. Which allows you exactly that
15:39:11 <planetmaker> As such I'd argue a need for that patch is even not existent anymore
15:41:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23261 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (49 files): -Codechange: Squirrel glue templates were not inline (tnx to michi_cc)
15:42:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23262 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/squirrel_export.sh): -Fix: one annoying typo in a squirrel_export marker line
15:50:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23263 /trunk/src/script/ (script_info.cpp squirrel.cpp squirrel_class.hpp): -Documentation: stop naming AI in comments in script/ files; it makes no sense
15:51:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23264 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.hpp: -Fix (r23263): save before commit
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16:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> no-one found it interesting enough to write a patch <-- actually i believe there was a patch already
16:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> one that allowed upgrading depots with trains inside
16:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and then not allowing to start incompatible trains
16:46:26 <appe_> i wish to try some new industry set
16:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that is no industry set
16:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i get a specific branch from a git repo?
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17:10:46 <appe_> planetmaker: i noticed you was in on creating the CHIPS grf.
17:11:05 <appe_> planetmaker: its neat :)
17:11:46 <andythenorth> they seek him here, they seek him there, they seek DanMacK everywhere
17:17:43 <frosch123> appe_: pm is involved in basically every grf on the devzone :p
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17:24:12 <appe_> uhm, i cant seem to be able to set a dredging site as a destination
17:24:23 <appe_> what am i doing wrong? :)
17:25:15 <andythenorth> click on the green bouy
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17:42:45 * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large trout
18:01:52 <b_jonas> and then you must cut down the largest tree of the forest… with this herring
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18:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you use herrings to fix tents, not cut trees...
18:12:20 <z-MaTRiX> Save the trees, eat beavers!
18:17:31 <andythenorth> ottd must be dying
18:18:05 <z-MaTRiX> maybe new users don't like the limitations
18:18:52 <z-MaTRiX> and maybe the new "feature" should be default disabled
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18:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what? you don't like the new feature of newgrfs allowing turing around in the depot?
18:20:05 <andythenorth> there's a new feature :O
18:20:17 <z-MaTRiX> like limiting land construction rate
18:20:51 <andythenorth> this FIRS set looks quite nice. Maybe I'll try it
18:21:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: look out, it is not finished yet :)
18:21:28 <andythenorth> is it open source? Can I contribute?
18:21:45 <Alberth> submit a patch, maybe the author likes it
18:22:56 <andythenorth> I heard it's abandoned? Or that the authors are idiots?
18:23:45 <andythenorth> it was only a rumour :)
18:23:57 <andythenorth> no idea if it's true
18:24:21 <andythenorth> at least one of the authors has jumped ship to a project involving boats :P
18:24:53 <Alberth> he seems to draw everything he can think of :)
18:25:25 * andythenorth contemplates a railtypes grf
18:26:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: perhaps now is a good time to discuss groups? As it's quiet...
18:26:27 <andythenorth> ...less chance of a kitchen sink spec
18:26:39 <andythenorth> i.e. one that has to accommodate every desire :P
18:27:16 <Alberth> my own desire is to first introduce consists into the game
18:27:50 <andythenorth> I think groups and consists should be firmly decoupled
18:28:01 <andythenorth> otherwise it becomes unsolvable
18:28:16 <andythenorth> current groups is a bit 'meh' but it works
18:28:20 <Alberth> groups are a layer on top of consists, I think
18:28:34 <andythenorth> 'consist' sounds like the most important entity
18:28:40 * andythenorth has an ontology obsession at the moment
18:28:55 <andythenorth> too many spec wars seem to be not because of requirements, but because of piss-poor ontology
18:29:04 <Alberth> perhaps the bug is that autoreplace is not embedded in groups
18:29:26 <andythenorth> groups work for me
18:29:27 <Alberth> which causes a lot of confusing discussion
18:29:39 <andythenorth> groups are just a bit labour intensive, you don't gain much from them
18:29:58 <Alberth> yeah, I never understood their point tbh
18:30:00 * frosch123 uses groups somewhat ad-hoc
18:30:14 <andythenorth> so consists are quite a defined problem
18:30:24 <frosch123> i want to autoreplace some vehicles, drop them in a group, and set the replace
18:30:35 <andythenorth> I have 1 group for replacing basically
18:30:39 <frosch123> so, actually i only use "temporary" groups :p
18:30:41 <andythenorth> then clear it when I'm done
18:31:17 <frosch123> except when i already know the grf, then i sometimes set up groups in advanced. for vehicles i know i want to replace later
18:31:25 <Alberth> consists are probably much more interesting in context of autoreplace
18:31:36 <andythenorth> so consists are quite simply conceptually
18:31:54 <frosch123> e.g. in my last games i started setting up groups like "flat", "heavy", "steep", to assign cheap or strong engines to them
18:31:55 <andythenorth> any consist (train etc) subscribes to or inherits from a master consist
18:32:11 <andythenorth> then there are some gui decisions about how to make a mental model of that for the user
18:32:19 <Alberth> yeah, they just need to be inserted deep down in the vehicle code :)
18:33:54 * Alberth goes reading about groups
18:43:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23265 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: replace the setfallbackfont callback function with a class to call back
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18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23266 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 8 changes by Wowanxm
18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 12 changes by glx
18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
18:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 12 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by akasoft
18:46:11 <travels> now i got 2 questions
18:47:11 <travels> #1 what was that log for and #2 Does OpenTTD use GoldSrc engine because i went to saves folder and the icons show the Half-Life 1 icon
18:47:55 <frosch123> #1 that log appears daily at 19:45 amsterdam time
18:48:32 <Rubidium> that just tells something about the changes being made to OpenTTD's sources
18:48:39 <travels> wait wtf its actually the HL2 icon, but i dont have Hl2
18:49:14 <travels> so does OpenTDD use Source?
18:49:54 <frosch123> it just uses .sav as file extension
18:50:05 <frosch123> the rest is your os making bold assumptions
18:50:10 <travels> i wonder what would happen if i open them
18:52:53 <travels> Setup file 'gameinfo.txt' doesn't exist in subdirectory 'hl2'. Check your -game paramenter or VCONFIG setting.
18:53:27 <travels> i shall add the parameter!
18:53:42 <travels> whats the paramenter for TF2?
18:54:05 <Alberth> tbh, what you are seeing and doing makes no sense at all to me
18:54:11 <Rubidium> -youstupidtf2thisisnotasavegamethatyouareintendedtounderstand
18:54:25 <travels> im curious what would happen
18:54:46 <travels> im trying to run a OpenTTD save in TF2, and see what would happen
18:55:20 <Alberth> oh, nothing useful will happen
18:55:46 <frosch123> you should try to hack 127.0.0.1
18:56:17 <Alberth> no, it is your os that thinks that .sav is a file of tf2, which is not true
18:56:57 <travels> ok i do not know how to add command line arguements
18:57:17 <travels> ill just change the open with to OpenTTD
18:58:01 <travels> wait HL1 also use .sav, so ill open a HL1 save in OpenTTD and a OpenTTD save in HL1
18:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that will likely not work either
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19:00:13 <travels> i dont think i made a saved game in HL1 yet
19:01:04 <travels> yep never made a HL save yet
19:02:09 <Xaroth> frosch123: should be much better now.
19:03:12 <travels> file does not show up in load game
19:03:50 <travels> now ill change the open with file to openTTD
19:05:14 <Alberth> just start openttd, and load it from the game UI
19:05:46 <travels> now its time to play in this Japan scenario i found
19:06:53 <travels> is it bad if i put land in Tokyo Bay?
19:11:06 <Alberth> Xaroth: what revision?
19:12:49 <travels> i want to get the 32pbb texture set, last time i tried, quite awhile ago, i failed horribly
19:14:33 * Alberth never bothered trying that
19:15:06 <Xaroth> frosch123: i got the latest version of the script from tb
19:19:11 <Xaroth> frosch123: I think tb brokes it :P
19:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <travels> is it bad if i put land in Tokyo Bay? <-- isn't that what they're actually doing there?
19:23:05 <Alberth> but they build an airport on it :p
19:24:34 <travels> i have no idea how to install the 32bpp pack
19:41:37 <TomyLobo> do coal mines ever disappear?
19:45:17 <TomyLobo> i've had this coal mine for almost a hundred years now
19:46:15 <appe_> two guys are playing beach tennis in their underwear while drunk people cheer them, out in the street
19:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as you're actually moving, it's pretty warm :)
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21:02:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23267 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: unify the font name setting of the font cache
21:09:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23268 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r23267): compilation failed on Windows
21:11:08 <andythenorth> did you move yet?
21:14:02 <andythenorth> ho, we gained changelog field for newgrfs :)
21:20:46 <Xaroth> Terkhen: so you got one more day to play NoGo? :P
21:21:15 <Terkhen> nah, I'll spend it checking the things I'm going to take
21:21:50 <andythenorth> but it's a NoGo :P
21:21:52 <Xaroth> andythenorth: play online.
21:22:12 <Xaroth> I set up 2 servers for people to try it
21:22:40 <andythenorth> I tried one of them :)
21:23:00 <andythenorth> I kind of want to know what can be scripted, but I couldn't find a repo or docs yet
21:23:25 <andythenorth> what's it called?
21:23:54 * andythenorth wishes multiplayer list could be filtered
21:24:21 * andythenorth is too lazy for multiplayer ;)
21:25:16 <andythenorth> Xaroth: so this is town growth goals?
21:25:36 <andythenorth> are there any bigger goals for the map?
21:26:49 <andythenorth> can I put ice in beer if it's not cold?
21:28:21 <z-MaTRiX> but if it has already frozen then it will not sink in it
21:30:52 <Rubidium> I see no physical reason why that can't be done
21:33:12 <appe_> today, you will be delivering coal from puddingwell mines to huntington falls!
21:35:21 <Terkhen> or maybe I will be sleeping
21:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you might get frozen water to sink in frozen beer by means of quantum tunneling :)
21:49:28 <planetmaker> appe_: I'd not dare take any credit in CHIPS
21:49:43 <planetmaker> it's not my work - though I quite love the NewGRF
21:50:10 <andythenorth> CHIPS is so simple :)
21:50:18 <andythenorth> although it's also not :)
21:50:24 <andythenorth> most of the credit is Yexo
21:51:46 <Xaroth> pm: we're doing coop stuffs on nogo1, you in?
21:53:37 <Xaroth> filter on nogo in name
21:53:58 <planetmaker> today even with proper maglev tracks :-P
21:55:19 <planetmaker> h22... is correct version?
21:55:27 <planetmaker> I don't find the server?
21:55:41 <TrueBrain> the ones popping up green / yellow
21:56:20 <planetmaker> yes, but there's none. got the IP?
21:57:33 <TrueBrain> here it is advertised
21:58:14 <planetmaker> yup, found it with IP. Thx
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22:15:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23269 /trunk/src/ (67 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: rename some control/string codes/IDs to be more consistent
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22:27:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23270 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r23267): compile failure without freetype
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22:49:01 <__ln__> is it cheaper to rent a car in Canada or the US?
22:50:11 <z-MaTRiX> rent one in india, then take to us
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continue to next day ⏵
