IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-10-23
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01:44:55 <FFLaguna> Is there a keyboard shortcut to DELETE a signal while the signal tool is selected?
01:45:05 <FFLaguna> It's annoying to click and back forth between bulldozer button
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03:19:15 <irx> i'm having some funky pathfinder behaviour
03:19:35 <irx> trains avoiding one lane of a station
03:20:54 <irx> any chance anyone could take a look and see if i'm missing something obvious?
03:22:57 <supermop__-> which track is the problem?
03:24:24 <supermop__-> its not scientific, but try re building the signal after that platform
03:25:00 <supermop__-> what if you build an additional signal
03:25:15 <supermop__-> the other two have 2 signals
03:26:14 <supermop__-> what about sending the train through at danger?
03:26:56 <irx> still waiting for a free track
03:27:06 <FFLaguna> irx - Put one-way signals on the other side of the station, too
03:27:29 <FFLaguna> Like you have them on the right side of the station, put them immediately adjacent to the station on the left side
03:28:00 <supermop__-> you could also turn on path highlighting to see if something weird is apparent there
03:29:41 <irx> i did put them next to the station, didn't work
03:29:56 <irx> however, path highlighting shows that the tracks are occupied for some reason
03:30:20 <supermop__-> try reversing the train
03:30:51 <irx> removed the "occupied" tracks, rebuilt them and it worked
03:31:17 <supermop__-> yeah sometimes odd stuff like that happens
03:31:29 <irx> yeah, the savegame's from 1.0.0 ...
03:31:45 <irx> thanks for your idea's :)
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05:53:53 <z-MaTRiX> can i soak a film negative in naoh or something to make it "developed"? only for being used as visible light filter...
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07:50:20 <Terkhen> hi V453000 and SmatZ :)
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08:11:29 <z-MaTRiX> accurate rasterization
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08:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you've been at this for days, and i still have no clue what you are actually talking about
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10:02:53 <frosch123> well, bananas users
10:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> why must i immedially think of Darkvater...? :p
10:07:07 <frosch123> yeah, i also always think of dv, when reading dilbert :p
10:42:38 <Arafangion> "four" is a very smart answer, actually.
10:42:48 <Arafangion> It corresponds to teh four primary applications on the iphone.
10:43:00 <Arafangion> Mail, Safari, Contacts/Phone, and Maps.
10:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like saying "the four elements"
10:43:59 <__ln__> while we all know there are five elements
10:44:19 <planetmaker> crazy but great movie
10:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and the fifth looks like mila yovowitch?
10:45:34 <Arafangion> I think the fifth element is hot. :)
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10:48:42 <frosch123> yay, when discussing the periodic table of the elements in 8th grade, someone asked why there are suddenly more than 4 :)
10:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that's practically the same discussion as the next step: why are they "atoms" ("undivisible things") when they suddenly can be divided into electrons, neutrons and protons?
10:50:32 <Arafangion> "We've learnt a few things in our long lives..."
10:50:59 <Arafangion> Eddi|zuHause: How can you divide a wave? Particles and waves are the same thing, right? ;)
10:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it was the full knowledge of a past time that lives on, but gets overtaken by new development
10:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the "four elements" logic is over 2000 years old, the "periodic table" logic is maybe 200 years old
10:52:16 <Alberth> like neutrinos flying faster than light :p
10:55:05 <b_jonas> the "four elements" is not "logic", it's one of the ramblings of Aristoteles taken for granted for a few hundred years
10:55:23 <b_jonas> I hate Aristoteles. Why did everyone believe him without question?
10:56:10 <b_jonas> The periodic table is actually science, so even if they're not really atoms, people did have a good deal of evidence to believe they are.
10:56:11 <Alberth> much like you don't question eg Einstein
10:56:55 <Alberth> b_jonas: they hadn't invented 'science' at the time of Aristoteles
10:56:57 <b_jonas> Alberth: you do. Einstein did science, supported by measurements, such as that solar eclipse star thingy and the Mercury orbit thingy.
10:57:18 <b_jonas> Alberth: yep, that's the problem
10:57:42 <Alberth> what if 'science' turns out to be the wrong approach?
10:58:20 <Alberth> ie you take for granted that it is the right way to achieve knowledge
10:58:49 <virrpanna> well then you wouldn't have computers CASE CLOSED
10:59:17 <Alberth> maybe in 3000 years people say "those people were stupid, they believed science could bring answers"
10:59:31 <b_jonas> By the way, who invented science? (a) Bacon, (b) Kepler, (c) Galilei, (d) Descartes, (e) Huygens, (f) Newton?
10:59:43 <planetmaker> in 3000 years the answer will be given by the iBrain ;-)
11:00:14 <b_jonas> science gave us GPSes
11:00:20 <Alberth> virrpanna: I am not arguing that science didn't bring us much, just showing that what we consider 'stupid' with 4 elements is exactly the same as what we do now
11:00:26 <b_jonas> what did faith in Aristotle give us?
11:00:53 <b_jonas> sure, there are probably many errors and wrong assumptions we're believeing in
11:00:58 <Alberth> the idea that we could do better, eg by doing proper science
11:00:59 <b_jonas> but at least we have a good reason to believe in them
11:01:19 <Alberth> what makes you think people 2000 years ago did not have good reasons?
11:04:23 <b_jonas> people 2000 years ago might have had good reasons, my problem is that 1000 years ago people still believed in Aristotle, who by that time lived 1000 years ago.
11:04:26 <Alberth> Aristoteles ordered the world in one way, we found a better way, and it gave us much progress. However, I think it would be stupid to assume 'science' is the ultimate way
11:05:00 <planetmaker> b_jonas: but is what Aristole wrong? How much of it? And why?
11:05:21 <planetmaker> How much of current science papers are wrong?
11:05:23 <Alberth> b_jonas: just like we believe in science, although its author is long dead?
11:05:58 <b_jonas> He was sometimes right and sometimes wrong. The point is that people had faith in him without trying to verify his results.
11:06:01 <planetmaker> scientific knowledge knows no age. It can be verified or proven wrong at each time
11:06:07 <planetmaker> thus age is not a valid argument path
11:06:32 <valhallasw> b_jonas: without trying to *falsify* his results, more importantly ;-)
11:06:57 <frosch123> [13:05] <planetmaker> How much of current science papers are wrong? <- wrong or faked?
11:08:09 <planetmaker> frosch123: both together.
11:08:20 <Alberth> b_jonas: failing to falsify a result does not make it correct
11:08:52 <planetmaker> Alberth: b_jonas: another important thing in science is occam's razor
11:09:03 <planetmaker> or I could scientifically claim the presence of god as well ;-)
11:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> [13:05] <planetmaker> How much of current science papers are wrong? <- wrong or faked? <-- in fields with strong economic background (e.g. pharmacy)?
11:09:56 <planetmaker> I don't really want to know. And no, I don't want to know how statistics is "used" in that field at all
11:10:25 <planetmaker> I've seen too much when I had medical students in the physics lab course for half a year
11:10:35 <valhallasw> planetmaker: then again, astronomers and physicists are not exactly heroes of statistics either
11:10:52 <valhallasw> they suffer from the Not Invented Here syndrome, and try to do all the math themselves
11:11:03 <planetmaker> not few thought that boobs were the better arguments than a brief look in the eperiment description. Disgusting tbh
11:11:07 <valhallasw> while all the sociology/medical/etc students just use SPSS and click the right buttons
11:11:43 <planetmaker> valhallasw: sure. But their errors are at a at least slightly higher math level ;-)
11:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> valhallasw: what scientific use is a "right button" that you do not know how to reproduce their results?
11:13:10 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: the 'right button' is just a t-test
11:13:33 <valhallasw> but hey, are you sure Origin actually plots the right graph? And that LabVIEW doesn't actually mangle your data?
11:13:49 <b_jonas> well boobs _are_ a good argument for stuff
11:14:27 <b_jonas> especially if delivered personally
11:14:47 <planetmaker> valhallasw: and in a reviewed physics journal you couldn't publish re-invented rule to approximate an integral by the sum of rectangles
11:15:11 <valhallasw> ...and besides, how many physicists actually publish their data reduction code?
11:15:16 <planetmaker> (like medicine just showed feasible there)
11:15:41 <planetmaker> valhallasw: needed is only access to the raw data
11:16:04 <planetmaker> and a decent description of data treatment. Not all the code
11:16:32 <planetmaker> but the description of data treatment more often than not is a bit lacking tbh
11:18:55 <valhallasw> planetmaker: well, at least these /medical/ people describe how they did their integrals!
11:19:23 <planetmaker> but well. calculating an integral is a solved problem
11:19:39 <planetmaker> in a numerical sense, if you're just interested in the area under a curve
11:19:45 <planetmaker> why would you describe that anew?
11:20:13 <valhallasw> and citation index!
11:20:16 <planetmaker> (of course, it needs to be "nice", e.g. continuous etc)
11:20:24 <valhallasw> and probably really believing you've discovered something new
11:34:18 <z-MaTRiX> can i soak a film negative in naoh or something to make it "developed"? only for being used as visible light filter...
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11:37:29 <planetmaker> it's certainly an idea. But on the cost of some sensitivity
11:38:39 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX: hello :) why do you need to have the film developed to use it as a filter?
11:39:00 <SmatZ> just taking the film out of the roll won't do the job?
11:39:20 <z-MaTRiX> because i have removed the IR filter from the camera and its now overexposed
11:39:52 <z-MaTRiX> an overexposed developed color negative will filter out visible colors, and let through IR
11:39:53 <SmatZ> developed film works as an IR filter?
11:40:17 <z-MaTRiX> it will work as an IR-pass filter
11:40:46 <z-MaTRiX> or i may buy a filter, or get developed negative from someone
11:41:10 <z-MaTRiX> i only have undeveloped negative ;/
11:41:21 <Zuu> Won't a developed negative give you a picture that wil get in the way?
11:41:31 <planetmaker> not if it's a black image :-P
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11:41:43 <planetmaker> e.g. develop unexposed film
11:42:08 <Zuu> Oh, I'm sure I got some developed black pictures somewhere. :-)
11:42:40 <z-MaTRiX> well if i pull out the negative and let it sunbath a bit it will not likely to contain an image
11:43:00 <z-MaTRiX> but still needs developing
11:44:20 <z-MaTRiX> tried video tape but its not cool
11:44:57 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX: if you sun-bath it it will become surprisingly transparent
11:45:44 <z-MaTRiX> well its a negative if i expose it it will become black no?
11:45:53 <z-MaTRiX> i dont need the pictures
11:46:53 <z-MaTRiX> "colour print film negative"
11:47:54 <z-MaTRiX> never used films actually
11:48:02 <z-MaTRiX> only digital cameras
11:51:00 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX: it's a _negative_
11:51:13 <planetmaker> thus a black image has a transparent negative
11:51:21 <planetmaker> and a black negative results in a white image
11:51:31 <z-MaTRiX> but i do not need any image
11:51:47 <z-MaTRiX> i cut a piece of the negative
11:51:50 <z-MaTRiX> and use it as filter
11:52:00 <planetmaker> and thus I proved myself wrong. Expose it = white image --> black negative
12:09:58 <z-MaTRiX> i have lengthened the webcam cable using cat-5e
12:10:37 <z-MaTRiX> (usb data, power + analog audio)
12:16:30 * Zuu got a polarization filter
12:26:06 <Zuu> I bought it along with my camera, but then after some time I decided to go without it to learn the camera without any filters (apart from UV) before applying filters.
12:26:38 <z-MaTRiX> but it had buillt-in IR filter too no?
12:27:11 <planetmaker> virtually every camera has
12:27:14 <valhallasw> every normal camera has a built-in IR filter
12:27:33 <planetmaker> as optics are not designed for 800 ... 1500nm
12:27:51 <planetmaker> and it just adds blur
12:27:58 <z-MaTRiX> they are only designed 400-650nm
12:28:09 <z-MaTRiX> red green and blue filters
12:28:42 <z-MaTRiX> IR will pass the RGB matrix
12:28:55 <valhallasw> although I'm wondering why the RGB matrix doesn't do the IR filtering
12:29:03 <z-MaTRiX> this is why it will only be good for black/white IR images
12:29:36 <valhallasw> ...wut? what would be a 'color' IR image, exactly/
12:29:52 <z-MaTRiX> also the lens is not that wideband, it cannot focus 400-1000nm
12:36:45 <planetmaker> valhallasw: colour = image at several wavelengths
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12:37:06 <planetmaker> correct word of course being "false colour" ;-)
12:38:32 <valhallasw> Then I still don't understand z-MaTRiX' point
12:39:03 <valhallasw> if you remove the IR filter, that should only change the result for the pixels with a red mask
12:39:22 <valhallasw> as a blue mask is a \lambda <= 450 nm filter
12:39:36 <valhallasw> an green a 400<=\lambda<=600 bandpass or something like that
12:43:42 <Zuu> I wonder where the hell did I put my other hearing aid, good I'm going to see a deaf friend. :-)
12:50:50 * MINM whacks Hyronymus on the head
12:51:08 <MINM> that's a bad joke, and you know it >.>
12:51:40 <Hyronymus> yes, I am guilty :(
12:53:33 <MINM> now, get back to writing sexy newgrfs! ]:-)
12:59:59 <peter1138> is it more or are the forums slow?
13:12:34 <heyhey> anyone up just had some questions on compiling so I can get some patches/grfs to work
13:13:11 <planetmaker> grfs should work w/o compilation. Just download a new nightly
13:14:16 <planetmaker> btw, meta questions suck
13:15:05 <heyhey> I went on the forums, and downloaded this patch for bigger airports
13:15:14 <heyhey> it says to patch/compile and then copy the grf over
13:16:11 <Alberth> (as in, and your actual question is... ?)
13:16:39 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
13:16:45 <planetmaker> ha. I should remember 3
13:17:03 <planetmaker> and good that it's in the topic. Proves that people don't read :-P
13:17:08 <heyhey> I just need a quick walk through on compiling/patching, not sure exactly how to do it, I tried to follow wiki's directions
13:17:10 <Alberth> better teach DorpsGek to recognize meta questions :)
13:17:31 <planetmaker> heyhey: read the wiki then. Come back with a real question
13:17:49 <Alberth> heyhey: and first compile without patching to test your compile setup
13:17:55 <planetmaker> the wiki has detailed step by step guides. and ^^^
13:18:56 <heyhey> I did svncheckout to a directory, so I have openttd now without an exe in a folder
13:19:13 <heyhey> svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk , that's the right url to download it right?
13:19:37 <Alberth> looks right, let me check the revision of your airport thingie
13:21:06 <Alberth> and trunk is 23050, so update to the older revision first
13:21:22 <Alberth> cd <your directory> ; svn up -r 23011
13:23:33 <Alberth> heyhey: how did you download the svn checkout?
13:23:43 <heyhey> i have svn checkut/tortoise installed
13:23:54 <heyhey> just not sure where to get the older revision
13:24:29 <Alberth> ok, find some 'update' button and fill in a revision would be my guess (I never used SVN tortoise)
13:25:00 <Alberth> did you install a C++ compiler already?
13:25:02 <heyhey> in checkout you have Url of repository, checkout directory, checkout depth
13:25:25 <Alberth> checkout for the first time only
13:25:30 <heyhey> is tortoisesvn the compiler?
13:25:53 <Alberth> no, tortoisesvn is just for getting the openttd source code with the right version
13:26:14 <Alberth> and for committing changes into the repo, if you are a developer
13:26:15 <heyhey> ok I am d/ling buildOTTD now
13:26:17 <planetmaker> hence: read the wiki
13:26:31 <planetmaker> and buildottd is WAY outdated and won't work iirc
13:27:12 <heyhey> any other ones planet you suggest?
13:27:28 <heyhey> planet, I know you love helping new guys get setup!! I can tell :)
13:27:35 <Alberth> heyhey: the C++ compiler is for making the exe file from the sources
13:28:27 <heyhey> yep, that I understand, just need to find a compiler now since buildottd is out of date
13:28:54 <heyhey> my wife is cooking me eggs while she thinks I am checking out the weather online, heh
13:29:01 <planetmaker> heyhey: no, I don't mind that at all. But expect that someone has at least take some effort, i.e. like having read the obvious instructions
13:29:30 <planetmaker> and more so as I know that the windows compile setup instructions are very new and elaborate
13:29:45 <planetmaker> what for are they there otherwise, if *everyone* would expect to get his or her personal tour?
13:31:01 <heyhey> planet, what do you use to compile if not buildottd, or are you not using windows?
13:31:28 <planetmaker> I haven't touched that os in years
13:32:28 <Alberth> heyhey: you've picked the most complicated OS for compiling :)
13:32:28 <Alberth> but planetmaker is right, the wiki has very good instructions, I am told.
13:33:00 <MINM> "A quick guide to get started with OpenTTD development on Linux and other *nix-like systems. For help with compiling on various platforms, join #openttd on OFTC. "
13:33:09 <MINM> straight quote from the wiki
13:33:31 <Alberth> MINM: that seems outdated too :(
13:33:38 <planetmaker> the wiki has many pages, MINM ;-P
13:34:18 <planetmaker> well. obviously that's for linux, not windows :-)
13:35:16 <MINM> I know, but it matters for me >.>
13:35:41 <planetmaker> MINM: it's a wiki :-P
13:35:57 <planetmaker> so, do you bother enough? ;-)
13:36:22 <MINM> Im only here for the sexy newgrfs
13:36:37 <heyhey> this is a lot of work just to put in some new patches I found on the forums, I wish they were in the download content where you just click to install heh
13:39:22 <Alberth> blame MS for not installing the various development tools by default :p
13:39:32 <MINM> patches and newgrfs are something wholly different
13:40:10 <MINM> while patches could be made 'install now', nobody bothered yet, as it would need to close ottd to apply a patch in a lot of cases.
13:40:22 <MINM> among a lot of other difficulties
13:42:05 <SpComb> mm, self-modifying source code
13:42:20 <SpComb> that would go down well
13:43:42 <MINM> as I said, Im only here for the sexy newgrfs! :P
13:44:22 * Alberth throws MINM paper with lots of code on it
13:44:49 <planetmaker> MINM: and... what about NewGRF code?
13:45:35 <planetmaker> Like... FIRS has about 39k lines of code
13:45:40 <MINM> same! I just slap the files into my /data, and hope it works
13:52:56 <glx> <@Alberth> blame MS for not installing the various development tools by default :p <-- windows itself takes a lot of space already ;)
13:54:03 <Alberth> glx: I always wonder how they can take so much space for so little functionality :p
13:54:32 <planetmaker> they have a very long chain of backward compatiblity stuff, I guess
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14:04:14 <Beengalass> I got a question on nml, anyone I can ask?
14:04:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
14:07:12 <Alberth> Beengalass: just try it, and you'll find out whether anyone can answer your question
14:09:33 * Alberth wonders why people expect a 1-on-1 meeting in a group chat room
14:10:00 <Beengalass> Cause people prefer it that way? Not throw out their newbiness in front of everyone?
14:10:28 <planetmaker> I certainly don't. As it means I explain everything 10 times where one suffices
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14:11:01 <planetmaker> independent whether I ask or answer actually
14:11:09 <planetmaker> if I ask: more people can give input
14:11:18 <Beengalass> I'm no coder, but I'm trying to add trains though nml. It works fine, when I do it one by one. But I would prefer having all locos in one file. I used the tutorial, but it doesn't show how to do it.
14:11:22 <planetmaker> if I answer: more people could read and get a clue
14:11:39 <SpComb> just ask your questions, easier that way :)
14:11:56 <Alberth> Beengalass: the whole idea is that more people know more so you get better answers
14:12:21 <planetmaker> Beengalass: just add the different engine definitions beneath eachother...
14:12:30 <planetmaker> there's no magic at all.
14:13:22 <Beengalass> I did try it, but didn't work. Guess I got a bracket wrong or something. Gonna try again.
14:13:43 <planetmaker> nml gives you an error message then. Which would give you a clue...
14:13:47 <Alberth> Beengalass: first try 2 trains, if it fails, it is easier to debug
14:15:55 <Beengalass> That is a bit longer that the tutorial one :)
14:17:42 <Beengalass> And there is the reason why I didn't became a coder... :)
14:17:46 <planetmaker> a mere 72k lines :-P
14:19:13 <Beengalass> Anyway, I tried copy /*define the actual train*/ part into an existing nml. But it didn't just took it straight of. Should I copy the entire text? I do not mind if its the same graphics and stuff. I just want to edit the numbers.
14:22:53 <planetmaker> as I see it the tutorial does not link any graphics to the train engine
14:23:08 <planetmaker> which is described in the road vehicle part
14:23:50 <planetmaker> you need of course everything from "The code so far" section
14:24:35 <planetmaker> it requires probably the graphics file as shown in that tutorial, too
14:24:40 <planetmaker> and of course the language file
14:24:52 <Beengalass> it works fine when I got 1 train per grf. But right now I got 13 grf for all my locos
14:25:38 <planetmaker> you just append additional engine definitions
14:25:42 <planetmaker> of course only one grf block
14:25:49 <planetmaker> and if something goes wrong you get error messages.
14:26:01 <planetmaker> without that it's hard to tell what did go wrong where
14:27:34 <Beengalass> In the english file I have defined the two current train. Cheap and average. Original I know. First in the code is the average one, but I do only get the cheap one in-game.
14:27:39 <Beengalass> And there is no errors.
14:28:13 <heyhey> does anyone know which grf have boeing/airbus, I tried av8 but it's not in there, I forget which one did
14:29:10 <planetmaker> Beengalass: and you did (re-compile) and put the resulting newgrf into your newgrf folder and started a newgrf or at least reloaded newgrfs (when you overwrite the old newgrf)?
14:30:35 <planetmaker> can you paste the code somewhere (not here, maybe paste.openttdcoop.org or similar)?
14:30:36 <Alberth> path is correct (displayed in the newgrf selection window if you select the newgrf)?
14:30:53 <Alberth> timestamp of that file is ok?
14:31:12 <Beengalass> sec, phone. I'll return in 15-20 min with uploaded code.
14:31:32 <Alberth> size of the new newgrf is bigger than the previous ones?
14:31:35 <planetmaker> you have long seconds over there :-P
14:31:54 <Beengalass> Sweden, here everything has frozen so it moves slower ^^
14:35:14 <Alberth> planetmaker: thicker air, so light travels slower :p
14:37:46 <planetmaker> but... is cesium different over there? "the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom"
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14:56:09 <Alberth> Sorry, I never counted them
15:01:22 <planetmaker> I tried. But I always fell asleep. It's like counting sheep ;-)
15:04:38 <Alberth> counting sheep is quite difficult actually, they don't nicely jump over a fence one by one, they stay together and move constantly
15:04:53 <TrueBrain> you should play less minecraft :P
15:05:41 <Alberth> minecraft? real-world farm youth experience!
15:06:03 <Alberth> (I had a friend living at a farm:) )
15:06:11 <TrueBrain> yes, behind a screen, we call that game Minecraft :P
15:07:05 <Alberth> oh, so I have played it without playing it? nice :)
15:09:13 <FFLaguna> Av8 aircraft seem faaaaaaar too expensive
15:09:45 <planetmaker> planes cannot be expensive enough ;-)
15:09:55 <Alberth> FFLaguna: cheat yourself some money
15:10:04 <planetmaker> or use a basecost mod newgrf
15:10:14 <planetmaker> and decrease plane running and purchase costs
15:11:03 <Alberth> it is a realistic newgrf, and are people still complaining :p
15:12:54 <Dany0> hey guys, could you help me up a bit? I'm trying to do an OpenTTD-standard sprite in qubicle constructor. I will need the dimensions but the only dimension I could find is that a tile is diagonally 64 px wide, and I don't think I understood that correctly
15:15:19 <Dany0> like buildings can be 31 px high?
15:15:38 <Dany0> I am not interested in this dimension then
15:15:45 <Dany0> I'm working in voxel space
15:15:45 <planetmaker> there's a rather soft limit of ~200px or so
15:15:55 <Dany0> I don't need pixel dimensions
15:16:12 <planetmaker> but a ground tile is 64px wide and 31px in the | direction on the screen. If it is flat
15:16:23 <planetmaker> openttd has no voxels
15:16:37 <Dany0> I'm working in a voxel editorm
15:16:40 <Alberth> Dany0: as many as you can scale to those pixel sizes
15:17:16 <Dany0> Alberth: no I want it proportional
15:17:33 <Alberth> there is no proportional, it is just an optical illusion
15:17:45 <Dany0> could someone quickly fire me a jpg/png of the rails any direction?
15:18:03 <Dany0> well then, proportional to the optical illusion
15:19:10 <Dany0> well... okay that'll do
15:19:11 <planetmaker> a hight level is 8 px
15:23:10 <FFLaguna> Where are these "rotations in 3d"? I must not understand correctly at all :(
15:24:17 <Alberth> In the 'overview'. Noticed the number 35.264 ?
15:31:54 * planetmaker is not exactly afk, but shouldn't touch it the next couple of minutes.
15:32:03 <planetmaker> Dough on it leaves ugly residue ;-)
15:54:15 <Dany0> ok old backup version... never mind
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16:25:24 <Dany0> Alberth: so what do you think
16:26:24 <Alberth> what is the goal of all this?
16:26:50 <Dany0> making openttd sprites easier then in blender
16:26:57 <Alberth> I *know* you can use a 3D renderer to make 2D sprites
16:27:10 <Dany0> but this a special 3d modeler
16:27:17 <Dany0> it's much easier then blender
16:27:40 <Dany0> also one could potentially make a voxlap clone of openttd
16:27:47 <Alberth> I cannot verify your claims at all
16:28:04 <Dany0> and you can convert the vehicles to Ace Of Spades and Minecraft
16:28:17 <Alberth> although I doubt it is easier and faster
16:28:31 <Dany0> the **** you talking about?
16:28:33 <Alberth> usually easier comes at a prices
16:29:10 <Alberth> why do you think I am interested in it?
16:29:19 <Alberth> you only seem to try to sell us to it
16:29:33 <Dany0> do you even read what I'm saying?
16:30:10 <Dany0> and you didn't even try it -.-'
16:30:20 <Alberth> Dany0: I used povray a few times, and that's it.
16:30:31 <Alberth> I am a software coder, not a 3D artist
16:30:36 <Dany0> what are you talking about!
16:30:46 <Dany0> I'm talking one thing, you another
16:30:53 <Dany0> get your stuff straight
16:31:18 <Alberth> you're the one trying to sell a 3d modeler to a programmer :)
16:31:20 <V453000> I do not understand how could a 3D render be better fit than a pixel art. The 3D render might be useful to make some shapes etc. correct, but the exact pixels...
16:31:57 <V453000> also, the final "sprite" you have rendered is totally ugly
16:32:04 <Dany0> >>>I'm a programmer myself too
16:32:12 <Dany0> V453000: but this is a voxel modelere
16:32:31 <V453000> it doesnt matter what it is, its output is super plain and ugly
16:32:44 <V453000> and to make it nice it would require much more effort than bitmap editor I think
16:32:56 <V453000> do what you want but I am sticking with pixel art
16:33:32 <Alberth> Dany0: and straight tracks should be trivial in this thing, make an engine with the same quality as hand-made pixelart if you want to impress graphic artists
16:34:05 <V453000> Alberth: did you see the output sprite of the track?
16:34:57 <Alberth> a bit but not really in detail, I always thought sprites came as bitmap instead of video :)
16:34:58 <Dany0> V453000: another guy that doesn't get it... voxels aren't polygons
16:35:17 <Alberth> Dany0: I know what voxels are
16:35:19 <V453000> I get it very well but your output sprite sucks
16:35:39 <V453000> Alberth: in the end there is the output visible :)
16:35:43 <Dany0> Alberth: apparently you don't
16:35:52 <Dany0> Alberth: a lot of people think they do, but they don't
16:36:05 <V453000> show us some sprites made?
16:36:07 <Dany0> V453000: I know I didn't give it much detail
16:36:12 <Alberth> V453000: video is so bad quality, impossible to judge fairly imho
16:36:30 <V453000> I think the sprite is _SO_ bad that the video quality is sufficient :P
16:37:18 <Alberth> Dany0: honestly, nobody cares how you make sprites, the endresult is what counts
16:37:40 <V453000> that is a cubicle model rotating
16:37:54 <Dany0> how is it not a sprite?
16:38:02 <Alberth> a sprite a single bitmap
16:38:05 <andythenorth> Dany0: can you model a ship with it?
16:38:10 <Dany0> so it's not been rendered in iso cam, still a bitmap
16:38:18 <andythenorth> I just want to see what the hull shape and shading are like
16:38:26 <Dany0> Alberth: sprite sheet is a single bitmap
16:38:29 <andythenorth> light in OTTD is at about 5pm high
16:38:39 <Dany0> Alberth: I used gif sprites a lot and others too
16:38:42 <V453000> Dany0: then go ahead and use that SPRITE in openttd
16:39:05 <V453000> still use the sprite please :)
16:39:22 <V453000> how is this any different from the previous technically in being a sprite for openttd
16:39:29 <Dany0> somebody correct V453000 for me please I don't wanna deal with idiots right now
16:39:38 * andythenorth is intrigued by Qubicle
16:39:50 <V453000> Alberth: please dont, it is nice
16:40:11 <V453000> and I want to see the result if there is going to be any
16:40:48 <Dany0> V453000: it's still a sprite, and if I want I can render it with ISO cam, it's still useable in OpenTTD though it doesn't fit
16:40:51 <V453000> yes I am an absolute retard but please enlighten me and show me a proper sprite for openttd
16:41:05 <V453000> usable and doesnt fit ... that is ... useful!
16:41:19 <Dany0> it's in a different theme
16:41:56 <Dany0> of course it's not useful...
16:42:07 <Alberth> so why are you in this channel then? You expect us to change entire OpenTTD just because your renderer cannot make sprites that fit?
16:42:10 <V453000> I am asking you to show something useful :)
16:42:26 <Dany0> Alberth: I don't know, are you ignorant or just retarded?
16:42:34 <V453000> because obviously nobody in this channel cannot understand your logic
16:42:35 <andythenorth> Dany0: instead of arguing, can you model a ship? :)
16:42:44 <Dany0> andythenorth: gimme blueprints
16:43:09 <V453000> what do you need those data for
16:43:10 <andythenorth> it can be very rough
16:43:21 <Dany0> so like one with vessles?
16:43:44 <Dany0> like those rescue boats from pirate-themed literature?
16:44:01 <Dany0> no no something that would take less time to make
16:44:10 * andythenorth is sick of drawing ships and if they can be rendered it would be welcome
16:44:20 <V453000> then make a train, those are smaller
16:47:54 <Dany0> dimensions about 10x30?
16:48:03 <MINM> andythenorth: would the av8 method be worth a try?
16:48:25 <andythenorth> MINM: it would if I could get Pikka to supply finished sprites :P
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16:48:28 <Dany0> Alberth: sry I'm not an artist this is too much for me :S
16:48:41 <andythenorth> mostly I'm over-painting renders from lead@inbox, but they need a lot of processing
16:48:46 <V453000> then make any train or wagon out of your mind
16:49:26 <MINM> Im kinda wondering what methods he uses.
16:50:27 <V453000> hehe :) but seeing what mastery he shows with UKRS2, pixels are still his best :P
16:50:39 <V453000> av8 is amazing as well though
16:51:00 <Alberth> you cannot beat handmade pixels with any renderer :)
16:52:19 <Dany0> game made completely out of rendered voxels
16:53:08 <V453000> I wont comment that until you show us some useful sprites :)
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16:59:31 <Dany0> V453000: do you even think before saying
16:59:44 <V453000> how many pixels does that have?
17:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: what he means is you should downscale that to TTD dimensions
17:00:39 <V453000> a sprite for openttd is in 22*17 for side view of the train
17:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: and that looks horrible, especially with the jpeg compression
17:02:23 <V453000> and I draw pixels ... you said making cubicles is easier
17:02:31 <V453000> so where is the problem
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17:03:04 <Dany0> V453000: you are so unbelievably stupid I doubt I want to talk to you again
17:03:18 <V453000> I sure am but you havent shown us why your method is good yet
17:03:19 * Eddi|zuHause should get the popcorn
17:03:32 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: hand me one as well please, I ate mine already
17:04:51 <Dany0> V453000: because you have better control over the final result, it's a lot like 3d paint
17:04:58 <Dany0> and much easier to learn then blender
17:05:09 <V453000> oh, do you have better control?
17:05:35 <V453000> I would rather replace pixels instead of adding/removing some cubicles
17:05:51 <Alberth> V453000: that's an easy train :)
17:05:52 <V453000> and you still have to render it out after wards and only then you see the result
17:06:12 <V453000> Alberth: no need to make it hard :)
17:07:06 <frosch123> Dany0: i guess your problem in this channel is, that noone hear uses blender
17:07:34 <V453000> no the problem is that his method is not better and he is obviously unable to prove otherwise :)
17:08:15 <Dany0> V453000: THIS IS NOT CUBICLES
17:08:26 <Dany0> V453000: I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERF*CKER
17:08:27 <V453000> show me a sprite, I dont care what it is
17:08:32 <Dany0> SAY CUBICLE ONE MORE F*CKING TIME
17:08:35 <frosch123> from my outside point of view, Dany0 is argueing that the qubicle thingie is better than blender, while everyone argues that 3d rendering is unsuitable in general
17:08:35 <__ln__> Dany0: how old are you?
17:09:51 <V453000> I am able to make valid sprites for OpenTTD. Are you? With your not-cubicle method?
17:12:29 <Dany0> what resolution to render in?
17:13:13 <V453000> the same as the example sprites I sent you
17:14:27 <V453000> I am expecting you to say that it is too small and that I am retarded
17:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if you come up with something sensible, we believe you
17:15:07 <frosch123> mind that the orientations | and - are longer than / and \
17:15:17 <Rubidium> too bad Qubicle is Windows only. Means it basically can't be used for the open source graphics
17:15:28 <frosch123> which requires any 3d renderer not only to rotate, but also scale stuff
17:15:41 <Dany0> Rubidium: runs in WINE just fine
17:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's still way too big
17:18:17 <Dany0> the camera can't zoom out so far..
17:18:25 <Rubidium> Dany0: still, by the "claims" made on the website I deduce you have to buy some version to be able to create files useful for generating a NewGRF
17:18:52 <Dany0> Rubidium: well, it'd be a lot easier, mainly shadowing and making houses
17:20:52 <Rubidium> does it even have command line options to generate/export pngs?
17:21:08 <V453000> in a certain palette? :)
17:21:20 <Dany0> Rubidium: what do you mean?
17:22:06 <Alberth> Dany0: using the renderer from a script, and generating a few hundred sprites
17:22:20 <Dany0> V453000: actually you can even make an object and then convert to a different palette, that's how it exports it to minecraft adjusted to the minecraft palette
17:22:40 <Dany0> Alberth: you can do that without a script
17:22:50 <Dany0> Alberth: a few hundred?
17:22:58 <Alberth> Dany0: we like automatic build procedures
17:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: but we *WANT* do use a script
17:23:14 <Rubidium> Dany0: for Qubicle to be used for GPL NewGRF sets you *must* be able to create the NewGRF from the source programatically. This means that the qubicle files have to be "exported" to png (or pcx) by means of a command line option of qubicle
17:23:30 <Alberth> Dany0: a few hundred is a very conservative estimate
17:23:34 <Dany0> Rubidium: nope still don't get it
17:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: CETS has 20.000 real sprites
17:24:15 <V453000> how many engines Eddi?
17:24:17 <Dany0> so you want to export render all your objects at once?
17:24:35 <Dany0> well I guess it could be done... though I'd raise the question why?
17:24:36 <Alberth> Dany0: yes, automatically every night
17:25:24 <Rubidium> Dany0: can Qubicle export one of its files to PNG without any human interaction with Qubicle
17:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: something 400-ish
17:26:14 <V453000> is that going to be well playable?
17:26:18 <Dany0> you can probably put all of them in one scene and export all
17:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: another 50% smaller
17:28:06 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: I don't see why but possible why not
17:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: and then apply proper palette and transparent background, and generate all 8 needed views
17:28:52 <Dany0> I'm not suggesting it for the 8bpp stuff -.-' OpenGRF is finished and the only 8bpp set I like is the original one so nothing interesting there
17:29:52 <V453000> 8bpp and 32bpp differ only in amount of colours per pixel?
17:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and the angle is not right either
17:30:13 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: I set it to iso
17:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: it's not exactly isometric
17:30:43 <Dany0> and no one tells me that?
17:30:49 <Dany0> that's that 32.885 thing?
17:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the angle is arctan(1/2) ~ 26.5°
17:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there goes any remote usage this might have had... sorry...
17:33:20 <Dany0> so what you guys need is: dimetric camera; mass rendering and?
17:33:42 <Rubidium> a linux version that doesn't require a GL video card
17:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> palette, magic recolour tables
17:33:55 <Dany0> it's still in active day-to-day development, this is easy stuff I'm sure easy to implement
17:33:56 <Alberth> an open source version
17:33:59 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: already there
17:34:16 <Dany0> Rubidium: planned for 2.0
17:34:30 <Dany0> Rubidium: why do you need it may I ask?
17:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: 90% of development in this community is done on linux
17:35:04 <Alberth> automatic nightly build at a headless machine?
17:35:22 <Rubidium> wine and gl don't quite work on all platforms Debian supports
17:35:43 <Dany0> Rubidium: worked fine on ubuntu 64b&32b
17:35:56 <Dany0> I'd say even better then windows sometimes :S
17:36:57 <Rubidium> that's less than 10% of the Debian platforms
17:38:08 <Dany0> Rubidium: well you can always try
17:38:48 <V453000> dont forget you also need people who actually want to do that
17:38:53 <Dany0> magic palettes, SW mode, dimetric projection, mass render and?
17:39:04 <Rubidium> Dany0: wine works on only three of the 21 platforms
17:39:12 <Dany0> V453000: says the guy saying cubicles
17:39:21 <Rubidium> primarily because the other platforms aren't using x86 (derivatives)
17:39:26 <V453000> who draws pixels and doesnt care about your cubicles :)
17:39:40 <Dany0> V453000: it's better then blender
17:39:50 <V453000> possibly, I dont care about blender either
17:39:58 <Dany0> V453000: you draw horrib ly
17:40:06 <Nite> i just thought about "trains loading at astation until they get a green signal light ...
17:40:16 <V453000> Dany0: your sprites are definitely better
17:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: nice thought, but where's your implementation?
17:40:58 <Dany0> you can convert polygonal models this way
17:41:21 <Nite> at least i release my thoughts ;-)
17:45:01 <V453000> large, and the palette conversion is ... interesting
17:46:59 <MINM> now if only I could work with milkshape
17:47:30 <Dany0> MINM: much easier & faster
17:47:49 <MINM> you're still using pixel art, essentially.
17:47:51 <V453000> MINM: he was not able to show us a single sprite output yet ..
17:48:02 <Dany0> MINM: no YOU ARE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT FUUCKING DAMMIT
17:48:51 <V453000> so your output is ... pixels or voxel art?
17:48:57 <V453000> we still need the bitmap sprite :)
17:49:30 <MINM> a voxel is a 3d pixel. the only big difference is the use of a third dimension.
17:49:42 <Dany0> a voxel represents actual volume
17:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: it's nice voxel art, but still totally useless to this game
17:49:58 <Dany0> a polygon model is an approximation
17:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> every model is an approximation
17:50:31 <Dany0> using maths you're saying that the object rendered is around over here
17:50:38 <Dany0> voxel object is an actual representation of it
17:50:49 <Dany0> you can have higher then real-life resolution
17:50:54 <V453000> what do you provide for OpenTTD?
17:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "representation" and "model" is the same thing
17:51:30 <Dany0> V453000: you are so unbelievably irritating, not your personality, you're quite fine... you're just so... STUPID! ah!!!
17:51:38 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: not in the voxel world
17:51:48 <Dany0> voxel world is strict in this
17:51:58 <V453000> sorry, my brain wont get any better, but please show me already that your method is good by providing some sprites for OpenTTD :)
17:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: neither we nor openttd is living in a voxel world
17:52:38 <glx> openttd still needs 2D sprites :)
17:52:47 <Dany0> it's there and it's there and it can not be in some infinitely uncomputable coordinate
17:52:56 <Dany0> 1,2,4 or 1,2,5 nothing else
17:53:13 <Dany0> while polygons are often just fractions and comparisons
17:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd still has no voxels
17:54:06 <Dany0> like a triangle, it says one side is 12 units long, the height is 1/11th of the side
17:54:13 <Dany0> results in bull shenanigans
17:54:21 <Dany0> we are living in voxel world
17:54:26 <Dany0> except it's super-positioning
17:54:39 <V453000> you know, newGRFs will kind of care about the actual results :)
17:54:52 <Dany0> a particle can be on 3400,1,2334 coordinate and 29803,123,555 coordinate at the same time
17:54:57 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: one more time
17:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, please mr. teletubby. one more time.#
17:55:18 <Dany0> it looks really nice and they made it faster
17:55:22 <V453000> then you can do it too, prove it :)
17:55:42 <Dany0> V453000: can you just.. please, stop talking? also I'm not an artist
17:55:53 <glx> won't change the fact openttd only understands 2D sprites
17:56:19 <Dany0> glx: oh, you're the guy that CAN'T READ right? -.-'!!
17:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Dany0: ever watched the openttd credits?
17:57:09 <V453000> would answer who he is
17:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ECoherenceWarning
17:59:01 * SpComb wonders if Dany0 has watched too many voxel-rendering videos on youtube
17:59:28 <Dany0> SpComb: and talked to too much people involved with it
17:59:55 <Alberth> SpComb but... the whole world is in voxels!
18:00:29 <Dany0> also light is voxels too so that's kinda crazy
18:00:41 <Dany0> V453000: see? you are stupid.
18:00:54 <SpComb> the particle-wave-voxel triality? :)
18:00:54 <V453000> yes. I wont do much about it though
18:01:02 *** Dany0 was kicked by Alberth (yes everybody is stupid except you)
18:01:13 <V453000> you kicked my new friend
18:01:19 <SpComb> I know, how about we base our graphics on... photons!
18:01:46 <V453000> SpComb: althought it might be a bit time consuming ... you know, setting them all right
18:02:02 <Alberth> V453000: sorry, I just had enough of him calling names to everybody
18:02:02 <Dany0> see that's why the universe can't be in a java emulator
18:02:20 <Dany0> you can't have particle-wave-voxel triality be running in java
18:02:45 <Prof_Frink> No, you have tea-coffee-hotchocolate triality.
18:02:46 <MINM> ..okay, now Im just calling plain troll.
18:02:53 <Dany0> and implode at the same time
18:02:59 <TrueBrain> you think to narrow minded
18:03:05 <TrueBrain> they said 640k would be enough for everyone
18:04:05 <Dany0> you'd be so pixelated if the java world emulator would have 640k
18:04:18 <Dany0> but it'd make no difference for V453000
18:04:37 <Prof_Frink> Silly. You don't pickle java.
18:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> [23.10.2011 20:02] <Prof_Frink> No, you have tea-coffee-hotchocolate triality. <-- that might very well be a TBBT episode :p
18:05:05 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: :D I liked the one about D&D, talking about BBT jokes :P
18:05:05 <V453000> Rubidium: I am waiting when will he realize he is the retard, not all of us, but that probably wont happen
18:05:21 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: he is our new toy
18:05:25 <TrueBrain> please let us toy with him
18:05:35 <Dany0> V453000: you are the one saying "cubicles" <-- shut your mouth
18:05:53 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +q Dany0!*@*
18:06:01 <Rubidium> V453000: but I'd love to go with retardation already
18:06:03 <V453000> Dany0: I still make sprites :) you dont
18:06:07 <TrueBrain> V453000: now you say: no, you shut up!
18:07:16 <TrueBrain> cubicles are nice :)
18:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> do the cubicles have dilberts in them?
18:07:27 <LordAro> shame, i also found the troll funny
18:07:30 <TrueBrain> hmm .. did DorpsGek btw translate my +q into a +b?
18:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: looks like it
18:07:52 <TrueBrain> why would it do that?
18:07:54 * Prof_Frink has cubicles at the base of his fingernails
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18:08:06 * LordAro points and laughs at the troll
18:08:08 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it is Konversation translating mode changes
18:08:10 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: because some stupid person programmed it
18:08:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I'd blame Konversation
18:08:27 <__ln__> 21:05 -!- mode/#openttd [+q Dany0!*@*] by DorpsGek
18:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: Konversation used to say "give owner status"
18:09:02 <TrueBrain> I wonder if he is trying to talk; how long before he realises we can't read it? I am taking bets now!
18:09:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I am used to that ... but it doesn't :P
18:10:35 <SpComb> 05:13:57 [OFTC] -!- CHANLIMIT=#:70 CHANNELLEN=50 CHANMODES=eIqb,k,l,imnpstMRS AWAYLEN=160 KNOCK ELIST=CMNTU SAFELIST EXCEPTS=e INVEX=I are supported by this server
18:12:13 <V453000> TrueBrain: unfortunately I fear we wont be able to read that and thus evaluate the bet :D
18:12:46 <__ln__> V453000: that doesn't stop TB from profiting from the bet, does it
18:13:01 <V453000> sorry for spoiling the profit :P
18:13:21 <TrueBrain> V453000: what __ln__ says :P
18:16:46 <TrueBrain> I love those people coming along btw
18:16:50 <TrueBrain> makes this channel all chatty
18:17:36 <V453000> he made my day tbh :D
18:19:22 <TrueBrain> so he served his purpose :D
18:19:35 <V453000> you could put it even that way :D
18:20:44 <TrueBrain> I still consider adding to the bot that talking in capitals causes you to be kicked instantly :P
18:20:50 <TrueBrain> but that wouldn't have given you the fun you had :P
18:21:12 <V453000> yeah, that would have been sad, I think his like 3rd sentence was all capitals
18:25:03 <MINM> I don't think he's going to last long on the forums either, is he?
18:37:26 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
18:38:57 <TrueBrain> k, here he comes again ;)
18:38:58 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -q Dany0!*@*
18:39:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:40:35 <Dany0> V453000: can you make me a sprite?
18:40:58 <V453000> how is that useful for OpenTTD
18:41:07 <Dany0> not for OpenTTD, for me
18:41:12 <TrueBrain> +1 for V453000, owh, I just pissed my pants :D
18:41:15 <V453000> I dont care about you
18:41:47 <Dany0> oh come on I know you wanna do it
18:41:47 <MINM> TrueBrain: the forum post?
18:42:01 <TrueBrain> I see him saying it in such a dry way
18:42:15 <TrueBrain> and I remembered the thing about the spider
18:42:19 <TrueBrain> you know thatone, about the payment?
18:42:37 <Dany0> I don't get it what just happened
18:43:32 <V453000> hey I know that blog :D
18:44:16 <Dany0> yeah but David Throne stopped posting on twitter lately
18:44:27 <Dany0> just poof vanished like oprah
18:45:56 <V453000> TrueBrain: awesome :D
18:48:22 * andythenorth is intrigued and would like to subscribe to a cubicle newsletter
18:48:35 <andythenorth> it might be a good way forward
18:48:55 <TrueBrain> it keeps reminding me of the "infinite detail" movie
18:49:12 <Dany0> TrueBrain: you kidding me?
18:49:33 <V453000> dont get him started!
18:49:41 <TrueBrain> I am sorry, I won't.
18:49:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: they have a forum :)
18:49:49 <TrueBrain> so stop talking about cubicles!
18:51:31 <Dany0> UDT is pure shenanigans
18:51:44 <Dany0> first of all it has huge memory problems ATM
18:51:46 <TrueBrain> well, tbh, he called it voxels
18:51:50 <TrueBrain> so lets stop talking about voxels :D
18:52:04 <Dany0> what do you want to talk about then
18:52:12 <TrueBrain> I prefer anything not OpenTTD related
18:52:18 <TrueBrain> makes me feel at home in this channel
18:54:22 <Dany0> anyone here succesfully installed android sdk&ndk & JDK on ubuntu?
18:59:49 <Dany0> ok have you guys ever played trackmania?
19:01:36 <TrueBrain> he finally got the hint
19:03:38 <Alberth> so how much money did you make on bets?
19:03:59 <TrueBrain> I am 102 euros en 12 cents in the plus
19:04:21 <Alberth> not bad for a sunday evening of fun :)
19:04:30 <TrueBrain> fun fact for those not creative with pastebins (hint), he thought DorpsGek banned him, and tried to talk to DorpsGek :P
19:05:07 <TrueBrain> also after I called him cocky, he asked me if I consider Sheldon Cooper (BBT) cocky :P
19:05:17 <TrueBrain> just a few highlights of my evening :D
19:05:23 <andythenorth> what an odd fellow
19:05:38 * andythenorth is intrigued by qubicle thing though
19:05:57 <TrueBrain> in relation to OpenTTD?
19:06:05 <andythenorth> drawing pixels sucks
19:06:07 <TrueBrain> we already have cubes :D
19:06:21 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: make a 3D model and render the 2D from it?
19:06:49 <andythenorth> make a 3D model, figure out how to teach it about pixel shading
19:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen any cube in ottd
19:07:27 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: they are rotated 45 degrees, then put out of perspective :P
19:07:42 <TrueBrain> Alberth: blitter debugger?
19:08:10 <TrueBrain> well, start with -b 8bpp-debug then :P
19:09:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: but how would qubicles solve that? :)
19:09:39 <andythenorth> I'm not sure. I don't understand the tech
19:09:58 <TrueBrain> voxel models either come from a normal 3D model as we know it, or realtime scanned objects with a 3D scanner :P
19:10:02 <TrueBrain> so I am not sure it will help ;)
19:11:02 <heffer> planetmaker: do i need a grfcodec > 5.1.1 to build opengfx 0.3.7?
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19:12:48 <Alberth> I'd expect that you need NML
19:13:07 <Alberth> although I am not sure what opengfx is written in
19:14:32 <heffer> that would be new to me. 0.3.5 of opengfx is happy with just grfcodec
19:15:34 <Rubidium> heffer: yes, it needs a newer grfcodec
19:16:07 <heffer> okay i was trying to build 0.3.7 for Fedora. will there be a new update soon or should i go for a nightly?
19:17:37 <TrueBrain> documentation always lags behind the reality :(
19:18:06 <heffer> isn't it always like that :) but we're lucky to have irc then :D
19:31:46 <TrueBrain> a 30+ second advertise before the clip
19:31:58 <TrueBrain> let me get a beer, then it should be loaded
19:33:56 <TrueBrain> lol, nice movie __ln__
19:35:29 <Beengalass> planetmaker, are you available?
19:35:58 <Alberth> haven't seen him all evening
19:36:53 <Beengalass> Okej. Perhaps anyone else care to help me with some nml codes?
19:37:27 <TrueBrain> wish I knew anything about it :(
19:37:40 <Alberth> just post the problem in a pastebin, and ask the question
19:37:57 <Alberth> (I don't know nml either, but there are others here that do)
19:38:40 <Beengalass> Yeah, I spoke with him earlier but before he could help me I had to run. Issue is that I cannot get a nml file to contain several locomotives but I have to run several grf.
19:38:48 <Beengalass> I want just one grf for all my locomotives.
19:38:58 <Yexo> pastebin your code and I can take a look at it
19:39:20 <Yexo> and that is general advise, see our topic: Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:40:31 <Yexo> copy/paste your code there, click "Paste" and share the resulting url here
19:41:02 <Beengalass> In-game I get only the second one (STR_ICM_NAME1).
19:41:04 <Yexo> item(FEAT_TRAINS, item_icm) { <- the second one should have another name
19:41:14 <Yexo> you're simply overwriting the properties for the first one
19:41:29 <Yexo> which is valid, but not what you want
19:42:02 <Beengalass> haha, worked. Thanks. :)
19:42:26 <Yexo> and please pick a grfid of your own
19:42:29 <Beengalass> That was a quick answer. I get the feeling I'm not the first one.
19:42:46 <Yexo> dunno, haven't seen it before but it was obvious for me
19:44:32 <Beengalass> and grfid? The 3th line?
19:45:00 <Yexo> it needs to be unique for every grf. The id you're using now is already in use by the nml regression test
19:45:14 <Yexo> in any way, you shouldn't use an id that is already in use
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20:14:34 <TrueBrain> its so quiet in here
20:19:21 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Do you want me to make some noise?
20:20:28 *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttd
20:20:37 <Zuu> wrong answer, I'm to tired to make noise. :-p
20:20:57 <TrueBrain> here, your 5 euros back
20:22:15 <Alberth> ef bb bf 4f is this a good utf-8 character?
20:22:34 <TrueBrain> thought it was assembly :P
20:22:44 <Alberth> TrueBrain: we do need auto-kick on all upper-case :p
20:23:05 <Zuu> speaking of utf-8, does OpenTTD contain any filter against weird utf characters like those going out of the box or upside-down characters?
20:23:37 <TrueBrain> Zuu: wouldn't that list be endless?
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20:24:16 * Alberth turns Zuu upside down
20:24:45 <TrueBrain> I wonder why UTF wastes its space on that :P
20:24:56 <Zuu> That list would probably be quite long yes.
20:29:24 <Zuu> w̜͕͚̱̝̞̠̥̰̼̱͍͉ͭ͗ͦ͛͊̿̓͋͌̄͗̑̒̓̃̀͡͠ͅȩ̧̢̬̼̥̖̺̣̲̤͉̲̰̬͉ͦ̇͆ͦͯ͆̋͞ì̶̛̱̫̫͖̫̜͗̔̎ͫͪ̽̈ͤ̌̓͗̐ͬ̕rͥ͑̒̓̃ͤ͛̐͆̐̓̌͆͏̶̶͢҉͔̟̖͖̘̘̩̣͔͔̫̙͕͍̹ͅd̷̵͔̟̭͙̥̺̟̱̰͓̥̙͉̭͒ͮ̑̅
20:30:00 <LordAro> T̴͉̣̰̠̺͍͛̆̐̉ͭ̿̅̓̿͞͞ọ̸̸̡͔̯̮̠͈̠͖̦̘͆̔ͯͥ̆͗̈́́͒ ̲͍̞̲͚͉̱̫̞̠̣͎̝̱̞ͧ͋̈́ͩ̿̒̔̽ͭ̊̃̃ͥͤ̌ͫ̉̚͜͠ͅî̶̢̦̠̼͎̦͈͙͕̹̫͎͎̖̳̽̃̊̿̐̓ͯͪ͟n̴̨̧̡̜̠̰̺͇͈͎͎͉͔͙̠̣͉̲͖̮̋͂ͧͪ̈̐͛́͐́̅̐̐͌ͤͦ̊̌͌̕ͅv̴̷̡̹͖̝̩͎͕̤̯͕̗͇̼̬̮̱͚̥͈͗̏͋ͦ̈́͊͆ͨ͐̒ͭͮ͗͑ͦͥo̵̾ͪ̌̓̎̽͆͂̃̅͜͏̜̦̟̗̟͇̻͉̼̻̦̙̳͍̣
20:30:00 <LordAro> k̷̵̶̸̬͍̰̻̹̪̤̠̲̻̯̟̫̫̇͋ͧ̽̇̂̉͑̈́́̈ͤ̅̾̊͠e͒̊ͨ̑̔͑̎̐ͣ͂́ͭ́͑̊̿̇̄
20:30:38 <Zuu> Those doesn't show up right on my IRC client though. But maybe that is good, as otherwise it would cover the text above/below.
20:30:53 <V453000> I feared my display is broken ...
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20:38:05 <TinoDidriksen> Unicode does not waste space on upside down letters.
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22:43:44 <planetmaker> heffer: for OpenGFX 0.3.7 you need grfcodec 5.1.2. For any future release of OpenGFX you'll need NML
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continue to next day ⏵
