IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-08-26
00:09:38 <Ackmey> Is there any way I can buy out/take over other companies in an old MP game that is now in SP mode?
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01:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Ackmey: have you enabled buying shares, and are the companies more than 7 years old?
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07:53:39 <Terkhen> good morning
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08:04:50 <pjpe> what's the deal with getting other people's patches in to trunk?
08:05:05 <pjpe> like some guy made a 'grass grows on unused tracks' patch
08:05:17 <pjpe> which also lets track tiles store how often they're used
08:05:20 <pjpe> which is quite useful
08:05:23 <pjpe> but the guy seems long gone
08:07:33 <Terkhen> you might want to check the patch and the comments to it first; for example, IIRC that patch adds a lot of additional checks (a big performance hit on maps with lots of railways) for just a cosmetic effect
08:07:54 <Terkhen> also, it was made before the introduction of NewGRF railtypes
08:08:06 <Terkhen> so it probably does not take them into account
08:08:20 <pjpe> hmm
08:08:24 <pjpe> well i was using it with nutracks
08:08:28 <pjpe> worked fine
08:08:30 <pjpe> hang on
08:08:46 <Terkhen> try it with vactrains :P
08:09:17 <Terkhen> grass growing inside a vacuum or over a crystal tube will not look nice
08:09:37 <pjpe> yeah
08:09:46 <pjpe> i made a patch that removes all the sprite drawing from it
08:09:56 <pjpe> so it's just storing a bit with track usage
08:10:06 <pjpe> i think that would be more useful
08:10:17 <pjpe> wait a crystal tube?
08:14:37 <Terkhen> search for vactrain in the forums
08:14:50 <pjpe> yeah i've heard of a vactrain
08:14:54 <pjpe> but a crystal tube as rail?
08:15:21 <Terkhen> what I'm saying is: each NewGRF railtype would need a way to decide if it wants something to grow over it or not, and a way to specify the sprite
08:15:36 <Terkhen> and that, given the performance hit for just eyecandy, it is not likely to be included
08:16:10 <pjpe> yeah
08:16:21 <pjpe> which is why i separated any drawing code from track 'aging' code
08:16:35 <pjpe> since i think the track aging is more useful
08:16:47 <pjpe> a track usage small map could be useful
08:16:51 <pjpe> could add it to pathfinding
08:16:57 <pjpe> making a more heavily used track chosen less
08:16:57 <pjpe> etc
08:17:16 <pjpe> and it doesn't seem like there's many bad comments against it in the thread
08:17:55 <Terkhen> I'd start with running performance comparisons between your patch and trunk, using many of the openttdcoop public server savegames
08:18:22 <V453000> few most heavy might do :P
08:19:03 <Terkhen> I suggest using that crazy one (or at least crazier than most) with railtracks almost everywhere
08:19:17 <planetmaker> :-)
08:19:18 <pjpe> alright
08:19:33 <V453000> Terkhen: that does not specify it too much :D
08:19:37 <planetmaker> there's a game (#200?) with 2.5k trains and much tracks
08:19:45 <V453000> 201 is probably more heavy
08:19:49 <V453000> with cities everywhere
08:19:56 <Terkhen> well, my memory is kinda bad, but I'm sure he will not have trouble finding a game like the one I described :)
08:20:02 <planetmaker> ah, maybe I mean that
08:20:04 <dihedral> morning :)
08:20:09 <planetmaker> moin dihedral
08:20:09 <Terkhen> hi dihedral
08:20:19 <dihedral> uh - that was a fast reply
08:20:21 <dihedral> hi :-)
08:20:36 <Terkhen> it happens when I'm already typing :)
08:21:59 <dihedral> hehe
08:22:02 <pjpe> oh you meant glass tubes didn't you
08:22:04 <pjpe> with vactrains
08:22:16 <V453000> Terkhen: this is a map covered head to toe with 2500 trains and cities everywhere
08:23:00 <V453000> and this is a game with 2000 fast maglev trains choosing where to go all at once
08:23:08 <V453000> the second one works only with older nightlies
08:23:13 <V453000> as it is written there
08:23:59 <V453000> and this is a "rather normal" game with 2000 trains
08:25:08 <Terkhen> pjpe: yes, sorry, false friend for spanish :)
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08:25:50 <Terkhen> we have the same word for glass and crystal, it is kind of stupid
08:28:48 * SpComb wishes for a screenshot of #201
08:29:03 <V453000> just open it?
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08:31:43 <pjpe> now here's a question
08:31:48 <pjpe> how would i go about doing a benchmark?
08:32:17 <Markk> Take a knife and do a mark in your bench?
08:33:13 <V453000> :d
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08:38:09 <pm> 10:35 planetmaker: pjpe: learn to meet the macros TIC and TOC
08:38:09 <pm> 10:35 planetmaker: (and add them in the appropriate places, compile once with and once without your patch and compare run time)
08:38:09 <pm> 10:36 planetmaker: with a heavy game you might as well just have the map load and run for xx ticks and stop that time via the OS' time command
08:38:10 <pm> 10:36 planetmaker: might be easier
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08:38:16 <pm> if it shouldn't have gotten through
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08:38:47 <pjpe> yeah none of that went through
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08:40:53 <peter1139> um
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08:41:53 <dihedral> mu
08:42:42 <planetmaker>ödel-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/ ?
08:44:08 <peter1139> µ
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08:50:30 <Markk> Goedemorgen
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08:57:10 <Terkhen> hi Markk
08:58:27 <Markk> :)
08:58:32 <Markk> How's it going?
08:59:45 <planetmaker> usually by foot :-P
09:00:04 <Markk> Haha
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09:02:48 <ProgVal> Hi
09:03:47 <ProgVal> There is a bug in the configuration of the wiki
09:03:50 <Markk> Time for a bike tour!
09:03:58 <ProgVal> In HTTPS mode, I mean
09:04:07 <ProgVal> The root folder is:
09:04:24 <ProgVal> So, page URLs are like this one:
09:04:32 <ProgVal> But links redirect to:
09:04:44 <ProgVal> No, nginx gives "Not found" errors
09:05:27 <Terkhen> hmm... true, it is missing the /wiki/ part
09:06:13 <Terkhen> which link?
09:06:22 <ProgVal> All internal links
09:06:55 <ProgVal> Open this page:
09:06:59 <Terkhen> true, I was trying the ones at the toolbar and those works
09:06:59 <ProgVal> and click any internal link
09:07:02 <Terkhen> the rest fail
09:07:10 <Terkhen> Rubidium, TrueBrain ^
09:09:23 <TrueBrain> use
09:09:44 <TrueBrain> mediawiki is officially not capable of being available under 2 links, and it often fails ... hard. I am sick of fixing it over and over.
09:10:19 <ProgVal> TrueBrain: KB HTTPS Enforcer automatically redirects me to the secure page
09:10:54 <ProgVal> But I can disable it for OpenTTD website, through
09:11:22 <TrueBrain> mediawiki should just stop being a tart
09:12:35 <ProgVal> Why don't you put MediaWiki at root?
09:12:48 <Ammler> or remove the redirect for https
09:12:57 <Ammler> (at least for wiki)
09:13:20 <ProgVal> Or use the /wiki/ prefix for the HTTP wiki
09:13:23 <TrueBrain> ProgVal: because all https pages are under :)
09:14:04 <ProgVal> ok
09:14:50 <TrueBrain> and indeed, mediawiki is told to use /wiki when on https
09:14:54 <TrueBrain> fucking tard ...
09:15:34 <TrueBrain> why doesn't it understand basic concepts of doing what being told :P
09:16:05 <ProgVal> Another way would be to write a little script in LocalSettings.php, that includes either LocalSettings.http.php or LocalSettings.https.php, according to the domain
09:16:18 <TrueBrain> it does, in a more nicer way
09:16:22 <TrueBrain> but mediawiki always knows it better
09:16:27 <TrueBrain> and kinda ignores variables when it seems fit
09:18:01 <ProgVal> Eh, you fixed it!
09:18:20 <TrueBrain> owh, ugh, I remember
09:18:22 <TrueBrain> fucking caches
09:21:18 <ProgVal> Chromium alerts me about contents that do not use HTTPS (red-striked "https://" in the URL)
09:21:27 <ProgVal> I think it's the OVH logo
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09:29:26 <planetmaker> that's likely
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09:29:37 <planetmaker> but not much we can do about... right now
09:31:02 <Rubidium> ProgVal: just install an adblocker that blocks said ad
09:31:10 <ProgVal> Just replace by
09:31:26 <ProgVal> Rubidium: I don't like ad blockers
09:32:01 <Rubidium> oh, you fancy the crapload of gifs and flashes to be loaded for every page?
09:32:04 <TrueBrain> forcing https for non-https users is also not nice :P
09:32:06 <ProgVal> More over, I don't care about the HTTPS warning, I just said it because some people might be questionning about it
09:32:21 <ProgVal> Rubidium: Did you know some websites earn money with ads?
09:32:26 <ProgVal> Some great websites, I mean
09:32:35 <Rubidium> like?
09:33:26 <ProgVal> I don't know, I don't keep a list :p
09:33:26 <Rubidium> it can't be OpenTTD as its ad income are marginal at best compared to the private donations
09:33:58 <planetmaker> well... technically we earn with this add...
09:34:01 <planetmaker> -d
09:34:05 <Rubidium> ah, the lets go to war argument: they have nuclear weapons, proof it: well... I don't have a list, but they have them
09:34:18 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: technically, we don't earn. We just ensure we get something ;)
09:34:29 <planetmaker> :-)
09:34:33 <TrueBrain> hihihihi :D
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09:37:20 <ProgVal> Rubidium: :)
09:38:39 <Rubidium> it's like everyone being ueber worried about storing fingerprints in a central databank, yet they allow themselves to be tracked for (almost) every click they do on the internet
09:43:11 <ProgVal> I block trackers, such as Google Adsense and Google Analytics
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11:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but private corporations are The Good and governments are The Evil (american public opinion)
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11:43:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I wish that in the US all government activities would be put on hold for a week, as well as refuse access to all government property. Lets see whether they then still don't like what the government does for them.
11:48:22 <ProgVal> TrueBrain: The wiki is broken again :/
11:49:01 <TrueBrain> it was never fixed
11:49:20 <TrueBrain> which ever page hits the cache first, wins
11:49:26 <TrueBrain> and I can't be arshed to fix cache issues :P
11:49:45 <ProgVal> ah :|
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12:59:50 <andythenorth> interesting
13:00:26 <andythenorth> sometimes I think we should be more like drupal / PHP web frameworks - and pile on more patches
13:00:36 <andythenorth> but probably it's a bad idea :P
13:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "Almost all bugs require in-depth knowledge of various subsystems as well as a solid understanding of the consequences of a change." that's probably the point where you need to completely rewrite the entire program...
13:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is drupal anyway?
13:15:17 <andythenorth> heavyweight web content management framework
13:15:44 <andythenorth> very successful in terms of user base
13:16:06 <andythenorth> where I work, we don't use it
13:16:25 <andythenorth> we use python frameworks which are much more rigorously managed (mostly by germans)
13:16:30 <andythenorth> and far less popular
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14:14:55 <confound> andythenorth: where do you work?
14:15:08 <andythenorth> in a building :)
14:15:12 <confound> UNHELPFUL
14:15:12 <andythenorth> and sometimes in my garden
14:15:48 <supermop> gah
14:15:52 <andythenorth> :)
14:15:55 <supermop> so frustrating
14:16:23 <andythenorth> confound: I work in the UK. I look after three businesses, each of which could make me bankrupt at a moment's notice.
14:16:24 <andythenorth> it's fun
14:16:34 <confound> ah
14:16:40 <confound> good times
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14:49:20 <nathanael> hmmm - the update to vsphere 5.0 ... hmmm
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14:50:37 <dih> \o/
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15:08:59 <andythenorth> hola
15:09:02 * andythenorth has idea
15:09:16 <andythenorth> add transparency toggles: 'accepts' / 'produces'
15:09:28 <andythenorth> then use advanced varact 2 to show that in tile layouts
15:13:55 <peter1139> and get loads of complaints that toggling it does nothing
15:14:11 <andythenorth> well maybe it sucks as an idea :P
15:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> rather have an industry sign like a station sign...
15:18:12 <andythenorth> yarp
15:18:14 <andythenorth> not a bad idea
15:18:38 <supermop> with little cargo icons?
15:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo icons, or cargo short name, like in the station list
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15:23:27 <andythenorth> maybe a mockup?
15:24:16 <Rubidium> icons would be hard; they aren't part of the font... although as always with some trickery that could be achieved
15:27:23 <Rubidium> although I wonder how you would show the incoming and outgoing cargos?
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15:27:31 <Rubidium> a few before the name and a few after it?
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15:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <industry name> <incoming>/<outgoing>
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15:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> where either one could be "-" or a list of cargo short names (+ production level as background)
15:28:44 <Rubidium> Halle Coal Mine /CO
15:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "-/CO" in that case
15:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or "ES/CO"
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15:30:13 <Rubidium> now just hope they don't collide
15:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> collide how?
15:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the job of the industry newgrf to make sure the short names are unique, right?
15:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> this incoming/outgoing cargo display could also be useful for station signs
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15:33:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lets add fertiliser
15:33:38 <Rubidium> abbreviating that to FE seems okay, right?
15:33:59 <Rubidium> now switch to French
15:34:03 <Rubidium> oopsie... collision
15:34:13 <Rubidium> (with iron ore)
15:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i still don't see the problem
15:35:07 <Rubidium> NewGRFs are barely translated
15:35:17 <Rubidium> but... I think I found a nicer one
15:36:09 <Rubidium> manufacturing supplies: MS seems reasonable, right? But French has MS for maize. So if you make a farm you get Foo Farm MS/MS, if you choose french and the NewGRF isn't translated
15:37:00 <Rubidium> yes... it comes down to not having fully translated NewGRFs, but the number of translations of NewGRFs are significantly smaller than the number of translations of OpenTTD
15:37:18 <andythenorth> I would make this bigger, using full names, possibly icons, more likely colours. And toggle it off most of the time
15:37:49 <andythenorth> adding more small clutter or things you have to go figure out isn't so good :)
15:37:50 <Rubidium> are there cargo icons?
15:37:53 <andythenorth> yes
15:37:59 <andythenorth> used in station window
15:38:16 <andythenorth> also colours (payment chart + cargo chains window)
15:38:23 <andythenorth> brb
15:39:58 <Rubidium> oh, coloured sprites
15:40:06 <Rubidium> that's even harder in texts
15:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: even if there are collisions, people can still click on the sign/industry and get the full name
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15:59:52 <andythenorth> I should draw a mockup for you to point and laugh at
16:01:33 <andythenorth> I saw it more as a list of 'in' 'out' with full cargo names, and a coloured rect next to them, similar to cargo payment chart
16:01:51 <andythenorth> and then maybe yacd etc can do something clever with proportions in future :P
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16:01:57 <andythenorth> to show supply / demand
16:02:03 <andythenorth> biab
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16:12:05 <Ackmey> Hey if I destroy an airport and quickly replace it with another at the same spot, will the planes' orders carry over to the new one?
16:13:02 <Pinkbeast> Yes.
16:13:24 <Yexo> instead of having to be quick, connect a bus station to it first, than delete, than connect new airport with the bus station
16:13:38 <Pinkbeast> To be absolutely sure, Ctrl-click while placing the new airport. This brings up a menu with "Place new airport" and the old airport, select the old airport
16:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ackmey: you have about a month before the old station sign disappears
16:13:44 <Pinkbeast> ... or do Yexo's much better idea
16:14:11 <Ackmey> Is there anything special I have to do to connect the bus station or do I just pop it down next to the airport?
16:14:32 <Pinkbeast> Just pop it down.
16:14:35 <Ackmey> Thanks guys
16:15:06 <Pinkbeast> Ctrl-clicking is usually used when a) you want to put a station tile next to an existing station but have it _not_ in the same station or b) when you want to construct a new bit of a station that's not touching the old station.
16:16:29 <SpComb> boo, nontrivial merge from yacd 2.3 to newer trunk :(
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16:25:47 <SpComb> hrm
16:26:01 <SpComb> how do you play a scenario with given set of NewGRFs x?
16:26:06 <SpComb> you don't?
16:26:55 <Ammler> enable scenario_developer
16:29:05 <Ackmey> How does the autoreplace function work? I've set all my trains to get replaced but it doesn't seem to be happening
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16:30:45 <Pinkbeast> It only happens when they go in a depot
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16:31:23 <Pinkbeast> In theory even if you have breakdowns disabled and servicing off, trains with an autoreplace to be done should go to depots, but I have a feeling that doesn't work.
16:31:51 <Ackmey> My trains are going to depots though for servicing
16:31:59 <Ackmey> Not getting replaced
16:32:04 <Ackmey> Even if I send them manually
16:32:09 <Pinkbeast> Do you have $200,000?
16:32:22 <Ackmey> yes
16:32:27 <Pinkbeast> There's a "disable autoreplace if not at least X amount of money" option
16:32:37 <Ackmey> I've got 40 million
16:32:53 <Pinkbeast> OK. Open the list of trains. Do you have any groups?
16:32:58 <Ackmey> no groups
16:33:44 <Pinkbeast> Select Replace Vehicles
16:33:52 * Rubidium votes for "signal issue"
16:34:22 <Ackmey> Yup
16:34:53 <Pinkbeast> Select the vehicle you expect to be replaced from the lefthand list
16:35:30 <Ackmey> Yup
16:35:44 <Pinkbeast> Now, does it say "Stop Replacing Vehicles" at the bottom?
16:36:26 <andythenorth> @seen pikka
16:36:26 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <pikka> poin mlanet
16:36:56 <Ackmey> Yes it does
16:37:33 <Pinkbeast> Huh, in that case a savegame might be necessary. That all sounds set up correctly.
16:38:03 <Ackmey> Alright I'll give it a few mins in case
16:39:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22845 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4745]: perform stricter checks on some commands (monoid)
16:40:24 <Ackmey>
16:41:13 <Pinkbeast> OK, gimme a minute to take a look at that...
16:41:48 <confound> breakdowns disabled and servicing off, trains do get autoreplaced. I've done it
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16:50:05 * Pinkbeast grabs a new vanilla OTTD ahem
16:54:20 <Pinkbeast> "Broken savegame, inconsistent size"
16:55:16 <Ackmey> 0.o
16:55:52 <Pinkbeast> Which version of OTTD are you using?
16:56:07 <Ackmey> 1.1.2
16:57:17 <Pinkbeast> Aha, it would help if I ran the version I just installed
16:57:52 <Ackmey> :p
16:59:13 <Pinkbeast> I just sent train 1 to the depot. It autoreplaced.
16:59:22 <Ackmey> Gahh what
16:59:37 <Ackmey> I restarted the game I'll try again
16:59:56 <Pinkbeast> I'm surprised you never built any A4s
17:00:20 <Ackmey> Goddamn autoreplaced for me too. Maybe all i needed was to restart?
17:00:22 <Ackmey> And a4s?
17:01:33 <Pinkbeast> The so-called "Ginzu A4" available between the Jubilee and the 8P locomotives.
17:01:35 <confound> it's a size of paper
17:02:00 <Pinkbeast>
17:02:51 <Ackmey> Hm funno
17:02:55 <Ackmey> dunno*
17:03:54 <Pinkbeast> Also in future games you may want to disable "allow trains to make 90 degree turns". It looks really ugly and often it's hard with that option on to stop trains taking unexpected routes
17:05:08 <Ackmey> Okay sounds good
17:05:12 <Ackmey> everything is pretty sloppy
17:07:20 <Pinkbeast> If I were you I would also give thought to electrification
17:08:10 <Pinkbeast> And/or using the Class 43... er, the "SH '125'" on passenger services, if you have any
17:08:17 <Ackmey> Yeah I had electric trains lined up at first but I realized they weren't available from depots so I thought maybe that was the problem
17:08:30 <Pinkbeast> You have to convert the depots and rails to electric
17:09:05 <Ackmey> Oh youch
17:09:18 <Ackmey> How do I do thaT?
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17:09:39 <Pinkbeast> When you select railway construction, pulldown the menu to "Electrified railway construction"
17:10:14 <Pinkbeast> Two to the right of the tunnel tool is the track conversion tool. You can drag out large areas with it (and with your budget, you might just do the entire map)
17:10:27 <Pinkbeast> You'll also want to turn off the track transparency option that hides overhead wires.
17:11:18 <Ackmey> if I do the rail conversion though I still need to do depots and stations manually?
17:11:32 <Pinkbeast> Nope, the conversion tool does depots and stations
17:11:35 <Ackmey> Okay
17:11:46 <Ackmey> Will old trains run on electric rials/
17:11:49 <Ackmey> rails
17:12:03 <glx> yes
17:12:03 <Pinkbeast> Yes, just fine.
17:12:18 <Pinkbeast> Conversely the conversion from elrails to monorail/maglev is a royal PITA
17:12:54 <Pinkbeast> And you can electrify track under the running trains, even, so if you drag the conversion tool across the entire map it all works
17:13:01 <Ackmey> i may just wait until my trains get old again to convert to electric seeing as they're all brand new
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17:13:56 <confound> the trainsets I play with don't have monorail/maglev, and I'm not particularly sad to miss out on that conversion
17:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> man i have not played with original vehicles in ages
17:14:21 <Pinkbeast> Well, bear in mind you get a percentage of the purchase cost of the replaced vehicle based on its age, so replacing a nearly-new locomotive isn't that costly.
17:14:56 <Ackmey> Well I've got nothing to do with my money anyway
17:15:40 <Ackmey> Oh it barely cost anything
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17:15:57 <Terkhen> sadly that's only a common issue ingame :)
17:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ackmey: the main cost of replacement is usually your disruption of service (few deliveries, dropping station rating, etc.)
17:17:17 <Ackmey> Ah that makes sense
17:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (traffic jam in places they would normally not visit)
17:17:46 <Pinkbeast> Also I fear you're basically at the stage where money is irrelevant
17:20:02 <Ackmey> Is there any way I can get more than two airports in one town?
17:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes and no, if you forgive the expression
17:21:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to enable the option "noise control for airports"
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17:21:48 <Pinkbeast> You could set up a feeder service with rail or busses to an airport outside the town's area
17:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause> then small towns will allow fewer airports, while big cities will allow more
17:22:24 <Pinkbeast> # at this point it may start to strike you that non-cargod*st treatment of passengers is a bit silly
17:22:59 <Ackmey> Yeah a town is essentially just another industry
17:24:39 <Ackmey> I'll just set up a feeder bus station
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17:38:06 <Ackmey> Will bus stations get overcrowded if I have too many going back and forth?
17:44:30 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
17:44:57 <Pinkbeast> Well, passengers don't (in vanilla) go back and forth as such.
17:45:16 <confound> yes, bus stations can be clogged by too many buses
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22846 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt italian.txt):
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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17:46:47 <Pinkbeast> Oh, wait, you mean overcrowded with busses. If you build a set of drivethrough stops in a row it has quite a high capacity
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18:55:37 <andythenorth> salami one month past use-by date
18:55:40 <andythenorth> safe to eat?
18:56:26 <Terkhen> probably not
18:56:28 <planetmaker> depends
18:56:33 <Terkhen> but I have eaten worse :P
18:56:43 <planetmaker> salami != salami
18:56:57 <andythenorth> it tastes ok
18:56:59 <andythenorth> it looks ok
18:57:03 <planetmaker> if it's a nice smoked one, totally not juicy, but rather a club-like consistency... then rather yes ;-)
18:57:25 <andythenorth> I mean it's been dried for months during production right?
18:57:59 <planetmaker> if it's that kind: probably safe :-)
18:58:11 <andythenorth> I'm going to eat it
18:58:19 <andythenorth> if I die, you'll have to finish FIRS without me
18:58:20 <peter1139> but clubs are chocolate bars
18:58:41 <andythenorth> it's a bit slimy
18:58:43 <andythenorth> is that bad?
18:58:48 <planetmaker> you won't die from food poisoning so easily. You'll just severly regret having eaten it ;-)
18:58:51 <frosch123> unless it is grey and frowsty, it should be fine
18:59:14 <andythenorth> it's good to get food poisoning every 5 years or so
18:59:16 <Terkhen> if it does not walk or talk, you won't die from eating it
18:59:17 <planetmaker> green is also bad ;-)
18:59:24 <andythenorth> reminds you how nice it is not to have food poisoning
18:59:45 <andythenorth> this actually tastes better than when it was opened
19:00:37 <andythenorth> has anyone eaten corsican copa? That's quite intense
19:01:16 * andythenorth advances from salami to chorizo
19:01:18 <andythenorth> hmm
19:01:21 <andythenorth> there is no beer here
19:01:31 <andythenorth> and it is raining
19:01:50 *** pjpe has quit IRC
19:05:08 * Zuu wonders what to do
19:05:23 <Terkhen> stuff
19:05:49 <andythenorth> hmm
19:05:57 <Zuu> I could possible even fix the bugs in OTTDAU if it wasnt that I don't have any legal access to the compiler except for my old computers where I got turbo delphi.
19:05:57 <andythenorth> wine is quite like beer? There is wine here
19:06:23 <Zuu> I guess I should get around to fix the bug some day...
19:06:24 <planetmaker> I'd not subscribe to that statement. But they can fulfil a common purpose
19:06:27 * peter1139 noms on 99p steak
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19:09:06 <andythenorth> beer is tastier than wine
19:09:10 * andythenorth drinks wine
19:09:35 <peter1139> it is
19:09:41 <peter1139> i've not properly had beer for 2 years ;(
19:09:55 *** Neon has quit IRC
19:11:09 * Zuu continues on his human OpenTTD game
19:11:59 <planetmaker> hm... OpenTTD is actually something which can be played...?
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19:15:56 <andythenorth> planetmaker: FMSP :P
19:15:56 <andythenorth>
19:16:16 <planetmaker> yes, lovely picture of it :-)
19:17:08 <frosch123> cool two guys in this channel playing at a tmie :p
19:17:34 <andythenorth> people play it?
19:17:36 <andythenorth> how odd
19:18:16 <frosch123> well, i do not use firs :p
19:19:07 <planetmaker> heretic! ;-)
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19:19:33 <frosch123> would like suck if i would :p
19:19:43 * frosch123 plays 128x256 on mountainious
19:19:44 <planetmaker> uh?
19:19:50 <planetmaker> :-)
19:19:58 <planetmaker> that *can* work. But barely, I fear
19:21:55 <Terkhen> good luck :P
19:21:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: FIRS won't fit there :P
19:22:04 <Terkhen> lots of rivers too? :)
19:22:29 <andythenorth> *if* industries could terraform would be ok
19:22:40 <frosch123> nope, i started the game shortly before that
19:23:42 <frosch123> *if* someone would write a good spec for specifying slope layouts, it would likely be easy to implement
19:24:28 * andythenorth wonders if we can extend layout definitions
19:24:32 <andythenorth> with some extra bytes
19:24:40 <andythenorth> and bit stuff slope requirements into them
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19:25:32 <andythenorth> so to be clear
19:25:49 <andythenorth> this would attempt *terraform* to precisely a specified shape?
19:26:01 <andythenorth> no either / or / if / but stuff
19:26:05 <frosch123> i wondered about assigning building numbers to tiles. where every building id has a consitent height refernce, while other buildings can be at different height
19:26:32 * andythenorth puzzles
19:27:09 <frosch123> i.e. a fixed slope for a group of tiles, but multiple of such groups which can vary in height between them
19:27:31 <planetmaker> that might be an interesting idea and allow for fun stuff
19:27:36 <andythenorth> ah
19:27:38 <frosch123> i.e. every building of the industry is on flat land, but there can be slopes and foundations between the buildings
19:27:45 * andythenorth gets it
19:27:45 <planetmaker> Additionally the auto-terraform would be a good complement
19:27:58 <andythenorth> currently I think FIRS mostly refuses to terraform
19:28:01 <andythenorth> as we use cb2f
19:28:07 <planetmaker> yup, 80% surely
19:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> auto-terraform can only make things completely flat
19:28:23 <andythenorth> currently
19:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see a sane way to make it do something different...
19:28:49 <andythenorth> why?
19:29:04 <andythenorth> start from the N tile, specify +1, 0, -1 per corner
19:29:15 <andythenorth> the only real case for it though is quarries and open pit mines
19:29:27 <andythenorth> there's nothing else that really needs it
19:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you want "don't care" or "+2 to +4" values?
19:29:38 <andythenorth> "don't care" is not valid
19:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it is, if you want a foundation anyway
19:29:54 <andythenorth> at +2 you're going to need foundations
19:30:09 <andythenorth> foundations aren't valid for the cases I can think of (or george or pikka have found afaik)
19:30:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: instead of corner heights i would rather go for tile slopes
19:30:25 <andythenorth> valid imho
19:30:44 <andythenorth> but really the only case is quarries, so is it tmwftlb?
19:30:56 <frosch123> every tile specifies a surface slope or "don't care" as well as "foundation allowed"
19:30:59 <planetmaker> why only quarries?
19:31:03 <frosch123> which might include inclined foundations as well
19:31:14 <andythenorth> planetmaker: because it's not necessary for other industries
19:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what i mean is: whichever way you come up with, it's either difficult/tedious to specify or you will find someone that says "but i need XYZ and i can't do it"
19:31:23 <andythenorth> they're wrong
19:31:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: it is necessary for your huge processing industries
19:31:43 <andythenorth> I guess it is actually
19:31:54 <andythenorth> given that we disallowed them levelling their own plateau :P
19:32:17 <planetmaker> it would help tremendously - and look even better, if used properly
19:32:26 <andythenorth> it would be nice - no argument there
19:32:30 <andythenorth> but nice != necessary?
19:33:07 <andythenorth> anyway, I'm not arguing *against* it
19:33:11 <andythenorth> :)
19:34:01 <andythenorth> george is creating a quarry that adapts itself to nearly all existing slopes
19:34:12 <andythenorth> I've seen a picture, it's quite awesome
19:34:27 * frosch123 saw it ingame
19:34:56 <frosch123> because of bugreport :p
19:36:19 <planetmaker> :-) It looks nice, yes
19:37:42 <frosch123> btw. i am disappointed... still nobody reported the bug i recently added :p
19:38:26 <frosch123> well, monday, so no weekend yet
19:39:12 * andythenorth wonders if the salami was unwise idea
19:39:52 <frosch123> ohoh, throwing up?
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19:42:25 <andythenorth> nah
19:42:34 <andythenorth> it would have to be pretty toxic to react that fast
19:42:50 <Wolf01> hello
19:45:48 <andythenorth> Rubidium: FWIW, a friend of mine - dedicated linux user - has been pricing new high-spec laptops
19:45:59 <andythenorth> at uk prices, he can't find anything cheaper than a mac
19:46:04 <andythenorth> make of that what you will :P
19:46:23 <andythenorth> he will have to bin the OS of course
19:46:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: fwiw, rb is on vacation :P
19:46:47 <andythenorth> heh
19:46:49 <andythenorth> well
19:46:57 <andythenorth> he'll miss out on that fruit flavoured advice
19:47:00 <andythenorth> :P
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20:09:23 <andythenorth> any clues on this?
20:10:59 * Alberth has no clues to offer
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20:13:23 <frosch123> we already talked about that, but i still did not write a wiki page explaining that
20:13:44 <frosch123> sprites may not extent the vertical axes at the left and right corner of the tile
20:15:28 <frosch123> and not the horizontal axis at the bottom corner, and not the one at about 100 pixels above the top corner
20:15:28 <frosch123> i.e. imagine a big house on every tile, and nothing from the spritelayout on that tile may extent the house borders
20:15:30 <frosch123> independent of any bounding boxes
20:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> afair it was 256 pixels above the top
20:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you may draw there, but it may glitch when scrolling the tile out of view
20:17:04 <frosch123> we are talking about exactly those glitches
20:17:24 <frosch123> 255 pixels in the maximum height of any sprite due to the grf format
20:17:25 <andythenorth> so it's the boats?
20:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not 512?
20:18:24 <frosch123> sprites are generally limited to 31px to the left, 36px to the right, 122px to the top and 32px to the bottom of the north corner of a tile
20:18:44 <frosch123> (maybe those values are off by a few pixels)
20:19:09 <andythenorth> so the boats that exceed the bounding box are the issue
20:19:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: bytes tend to have values between 0 and 255
20:19:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, they extent the tile borders to the left and right
20:19:33 <frosch123> (independent of boundnig boxes)
20:19:34 <andythenorth> easily fixed
20:19:54 <andythenorth> I hope...
20:20:02 <frosch123> different cutting
20:20:33 <andythenorth> I can update the boats anyway, they got redrawn in FISH
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21:03:35 <planetmaker> good night
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22:03:42 <Terkhen> good night
22:06:24 <Wolf01> 'night
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