IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-08-20
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05:13:32 <planetmaker> moin
05:35:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22765 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp table/sprites.h): -Cleanup: Remove unused constants and name a magic constant
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06:39:57 <andythenorth> buenes noches etc
06:40:02 <andythenorth> @seen pikka
06:40:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <pikka> the up/ down views are proportioned the same as the horizontal views. the roof should be half the length it is in the horizontal. :)
06:40:26 <pjpe> model trains
06:40:29 <pjpe> are fuckin expensive
06:48:58 <andythenorth> can we patch a string in somewhere so vehicles show what newgrf they're from?
06:50:03 <andythenorth> probably in buy menu *and* in vehicle info window
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07:01:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: sprite aligner window
07:01:23 <andythenorth> not for developers
07:01:27 <andythenorth> for players ;)
07:01:32 <planetmaker> :-)
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07:01:51 <planetmaker> Not sure whether it's possible for vehicles
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07:14:27 <Rubidium> aren't engines related to grf files?
07:14:56 <planetmaker> sure they are. Just the user-land GUI doesn't show the grf-affiliation anywhere afaik
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07:15:15 <planetmaker> would be a relatively easy patch, I guess
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07:19:43 <planetmaker> the question is: do we want that info in the engine info view?
07:20:08 <andythenorth> depends how big the grf name is :P
07:20:15 <andythenorth> we could hide it somewhere one level deeper
07:20:26 <Wolf01> morning
07:20:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: in the case of your NewGRFs: much wider than the default vehicle info view as e.g. in the purchase list ;-)
07:21:18 <planetmaker> where deeper?
07:22:11 <andythenorth> button spawns a new window
07:22:28 <andythenorth> for trains it would fit in 'information'
07:22:34 <andythenorth> but not all vehicles use that?
07:23:03 <andythenorth> although
07:23:13 <andythenorth> there is a problem for ships / planes with yacd anyway
07:23:25 <andythenorth> as they don't show current cargo
07:24:28 <planetmaker> if you display it for built vehicles: then you have to display it for each part of a consist
07:24:30 <andythenorth> information window isn't a solution
07:24:41 <planetmaker> if you display it in the purchase view: the current window would double its width
07:24:43 <andythenorth> display on hover?
07:24:45 <andythenorth> bit hidden
07:24:48 <andythenorth> not ideal
07:25:02 <planetmaker> on hover is the tooltip
07:25:07 <planetmaker> that's taken. everywhere
07:25:44 <planetmaker> though... might be an option
07:25:45 <andythenorth> hmmmph
07:26:02 <planetmaker> the hover string, for, say, purchase list, could take a string parameter
07:26:05 <planetmaker> in principle
07:26:09 <andythenorth> single window for each game, showing all the vehicles + newgrfs?
07:26:27 <planetmaker> the game has a vehicle overview window
07:26:40 <planetmaker> that list probably could / should show it
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07:34:16 <andythenorth> could just draw a puzzle piece icon
07:34:29 <andythenorth> and have it display a new window
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07:47:16 <Zuu> Hmm, uint32 is the limit of number of vehicles in the game? Or is there a lower data structural limit of number of vehicles of a specific type?
07:47:50 <Rubidium> there's a lower limit
07:48:05 <Rubidium> the pool supports not as much vehicles and neither do many commands
07:48:17 <planetmaker> 20 or 24 bits iirc
07:48:43 <Zuu> I think about keeping a counter at each built airport that keeps track of number of aircrafts in holding. That counter would have to be as large as the max number of aircrafts in a game.
07:48:44 <Rubidium> 0xFF000 to be precise
07:49:57 <Zuu> I have studied the code to see how easy it would be to do it without a counter, but as far as I've understood the FTA blocks are not bound to tiles. Eg. in the holding pattern there is probably only a block at the places where airplanes turns.
07:51:18 <Zuu> Still I haven't explored all possibilities yet, so I might solve it without an additional data storage, but that have to be a trade off between performance and data usage.
07:51:22 <planetmaker> @calc 5000*16
07:51:22 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 80000
07:51:31 <planetmaker> uint16 might be too small :-)
07:51:59 <planetmaker> each of the 15 companies might send 5000 helicopters to the same oil rig :-P
07:52:20 <Zuu> Yep
07:52:22 <Zuu> :-)
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08:08:07 <Wolf01> Belugas:
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09:19:37 <Terkhen> good morning
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12:06:33 <planetmaker> <-- nice, Alberth ;-)
12:07:56 <Alberth> It looked like 'please read wiki' thread, so I continued that trend :p
12:08:12 <planetmaker> in an awesome fashion :-)
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12:15:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: is this now redundant?
12:16:24 <planetmaker> I haven't yet looked at it, I guess
12:16:42 <planetmaker> oh... it's another sugar refinery issue. Should be
12:17:03 <andythenorth> you rewrote production code from scratch...
12:17:11 <andythenorth> so this should be gone as an issue
12:17:26 <planetmaker> yes, should. And new issues might have crept in :-)
12:17:46 <planetmaker> I tested it somewhat for what it's worth, but as you noted yourself, testing production code is a PITA
12:18:27 <planetmaker> also the issue with the 0x7E call in sheep farm(?) probably can be closed as it's solved differently
12:18:40 <planetmaker> I *think* so at least :-)
12:18:51 <planetmaker> terkhen's our sprite-templating guy ;-)
12:22:07 <Terkhen> isn't that done already?
12:22:10 <frosch123> omg... my neighbours are washing their house ....
12:22:58 <planetmaker> washing their house?!
12:23:04 <Hirundo> How should a name a ticket if it contains a bug fix, code change, feature (request), and patches for those?
12:23:07 <frosch123> they have a broom with extenstions
12:23:46 <planetmaker> good question, Hirundo. Call it bug fix. We're modest
12:23:48 <frosch123> and they are cleaning the outside wall in the first floor from the street
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12:25:49 <planetmaker> frosch123, I'm sure that activity wouldn't occur to me as necessary ;-)
12:26:08 <appe> is there any way to cling airports to each other?
12:26:15 <appe> i want to expand :(.
12:26:29 <planetmaker> there is not
12:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> nope
12:26:35 <appe> bah
12:26:36 <planetmaker> except writing lots of code
12:26:36 <Hirundo> planetmaker: Given that the bug fix involves adding 2 characters and changing the case of 1, I found that actually least appropriate :)
12:26:54 <planetmaker> Hirundo, then use your own judgement. I trust it ;-)
12:27:01 <appe>
12:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> great. documentation of my mouse says battery holds for a year... now it's been two months and the light blinks red
12:27:19 <appe> ive come to the point were lots of trains + lots of airplanes doesnt work.
12:27:34 * Hirundo adds feature request: change flyspray 'type' from enum to set
12:27:46 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: likely it fails to switch off
12:27:47 <Terkhen> appe:
12:28:04 <planetmaker> appe, the problem is not the station size in your screenshot but the tracks to and from are a _severe_ bottleneck and impact througput and efficiency much detrimentally
12:28:24 <Terkhen> with a complex setup you can split the airport in arrivals and departures, but on my experience that's not very efficient either
12:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but it shows signs of waking up when i touch it...
12:28:29 <appe> Terkhen: im using that, and that doenst cut it. i have 600 busses o_o.
12:28:45 <appe> planetmaker: oh. please explain what to do :)
12:28:53 <Terkhen> buses have too small capacity, use trams or metro trains
12:29:01 <planetmaker> read the #openttdcoop wiki on station design :-P
12:29:14 <appe> planetmaker: ah, will do
12:29:21 <planetmaker> or look at some of our savegames for reference; that might be nicer
12:29:33 <appe> by the way
12:29:45 <planetmaker>
12:29:55 <appe> ive noticed lots of spelling errors in the swedish version of 1.1.2
12:29:58 <appe> how do i contribute?
12:30:35 <Terkhen> appe:
12:31:27 * Alberth observes a continuation of a trend :p
12:31:41 <Terkhen> what trend?
12:31:42 <appe> (Y)
12:32:06 <appe>
12:32:07 <appe> harr..
12:32:30 <Alberth> Terkhen: about 30 minutes ago
12:32:53 <Terkhen> heh :)
12:42:50 <appe> bah, i hate choppers
12:43:01 <appe> bah, i hate chopper stations*
12:48:47 <andythenorth> photoshop
12:48:48 <andythenorth> is silly
12:48:53 <andythenorth> it has inertia on drag
12:49:01 <andythenorth> so I stop dragging the canvas and it keeps moving :P
12:49:45 <planetmaker> lol, that's stupid for pixel work
12:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you pay extra for this "feature" :p
12:51:01 <Terkhen> :D
12:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "Apple is now worth more than the 32 largest european banks combined"
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12:52:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22766 /trunk/ (21 files in 5 dirs): -Add: river graphics for the original base set (andythenorth)
12:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> \o/
12:53:46 <andythenorth> yay
12:53:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: which of the dozens of ways to look at the value of a company?
12:53:54 <andythenorth> I now have 3(?) commits?
12:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: stock market value, i suppose
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12:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> number of shares * share price
12:54:32 <Rubidium> yeah, then it's easy
12:54:35 <LordAro> :O
12:54:43 <LordAro> yay for river sprites!
12:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the banks significantly dropped over the past week :p
12:54:54 <LordAro> well done andythenorth :)
12:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause>
12:55:40 <Rubidium> lovely news...
12:55:54 <Rubidium> luckily the european banks are the most valuable ;)
12:59:03 <Rubidium> e.g. Deutsche bank has ~1000 billion cash balance, whereas Apple only has 25 billion
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13:30:09 <LordAro> heh, no wonder my debug function wasn't working: "debug("misc", "*src = %s", *src);" online line above: "*src = '\0';" ... :)
13:30:20 <LordAro> s/online/one/
13:31:16 <glx> should be src and not *src in the call
13:31:42 <glx> *src is a char, src is a string
13:32:06 <glx> if you really want to print a char then use %c
13:32:35 <LordAro> that'll be the reasoning behind the warnings then :)
13:34:38 <LordAro> oh, and i do want to print a char ;)
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14:14:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22767 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Add: river generation
14:14:40 <andythenorth> \0/
14:15:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22768 /trunk/src/ (genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp landscape.cpp lang/english.txt): -Add: progress bar updates for river building
14:16:09 <Terkhen> :)
14:16:43 * andythenorth hopes for commit: 'educate towns to span rivers'
14:17:27 <Rubidium> that'd be lame ;)
14:17:33 <andythenorth> meh
14:17:42 <andythenorth> like bridges weren't invented :P
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14:17:47 <andythenorth> towns will span sea :P
14:22:52 <andythenorth> Rubidium: this one did it :)
14:23:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22769 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r22678): failed patch merging
14:25:06 <Rubidium> andythenorth: so no reason to teach it ;)
14:25:30 <andythenorth> maybe they need to be more free with bridges :P
14:26:16 <andythenorth> Rubidium: the generator really is effective. Did all the arguing help? :P
14:26:29 <Rubidium> what arguing?
14:27:09 <andythenorth> n debates about river generation methods
14:27:38 <Rubidium> where? ;)
14:27:50 <Rubidium> just did what I thought would be a semi-logical way
14:27:52 <andythenorth> you must have been away :P
14:28:14 <andythenorth> also - do you want me to do | and – directions?
14:28:25 <andythenorth> I will hate doing it, but it might be worth it
14:29:06 <Rubidium> nah, that'd be too much work
14:29:24 <Rubidium> I'd need to learn the half tile code and such
14:29:33 <andythenorth> I'd have to draw it :P
14:30:27 <andythenorth> do rivers have a specific class?
14:31:25 <planetmaker> water_class_river
14:31:27 <Rubidium> there's a WaterTileClass
14:31:35 <planetmaker> but tile class is water
14:31:47 * andythenorth ponders banning ocean ships from river tiles
14:32:06 <Rubidium> andythenorth: that's something for the pathfinder
14:32:51 <andythenorth> I have a ship stuck at a bouy in a river
14:32:56 <andythenorth> won't turn around
14:33:39 <Rubidium> guess that's the forbid 90 degree turns rearing its ugly head
14:33:42 <andythenorth> and can't clear the bouy
14:33:46 * andythenorth tests
14:34:02 <andythenorth> yup
14:34:05 <andythenorth> forbid 90' issue
14:34:32 <Rubidium> so *cough* *cough* user error ;)
14:35:04 <andythenorth> good luck with the bug reports for that :D
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14:39:39 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I found an isolated river - no lake :)
14:40:04 <Rubidium> maybe just a tiny lake ;)
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14:47:03 <andythenorth> he
14:47:04 <andythenorth> bbl
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14:51:08 <Terkhen> the river continues underground :P
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16:19:13 <andythenorth> Rubidium: you couldn't flood this little valley?
16:19:21 <andythenorth> <not complaining>
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16:35:29 <Amis> o/
16:36:12 <Amis> What's the difference between the 32 and 64 bit versions of OpenTTD? I have a 64 bit one right now and it still uses only one core (when in fast forward)
16:37:34 <Rubidium> there is no difference besides the CPU instructions that are being executed
16:37:45 <Amis> Oh... *sadface*
16:38:04 <Rubidium> otherwise it's utterly and completely the same
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16:44:58 <__ln__> Amis: 32 and 64 bits have nothing to do with the number of cores used.
16:45:18 <Amis> I thought it's utilizing the multiple cores :/
16:46:15 <__ln__> running the 64-bit version will increase your popularity among women
16:46:40 <Amis> I see *installs another 64-bit version to double the effect*
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17:06:18 <Rubidium> andythenorth: if you provide the code, it could ;)
17:06:44 <JVassie> $route = str_replace('[','',$route);
17:06:50 <andythenorth> "I provide pictures, you provide war"
17:06:51 <JVassie> anything wrong with that?
17:07:05 <Rubidium> JVassie: what language?
17:07:13 <JVassie> php
17:07:20 <andythenorth> that's where you're going wrong then
17:07:36 * andythenorth </petty>
17:07:54 <JVassie> har har
17:08:00 <Rubidium> maybe it's interpreting it as a regular expression?
17:08:15 <JVassie> hmm
17:08:46 * JVassie checks manual
17:09:10 <Rubidium> does changing the ' to " have any effect?
17:09:53 <__ln__>
17:10:02 <JVassie> indeed it does
17:10:08 <JVassie> works now
17:10:39 <JVassie> weird
17:10:40 <Rubidium> no idea why it works though ;)
17:10:45 <JVassie> :p
17:11:19 <KittenKoder> Sadly, that's not the only simple and time saving shortcut people tend to not know.
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17:31:05 * KittenKoder just had a really stupid idea of OTTD in space.
17:32:39 <Alberth> Isn't that Elite ?
17:33:14 <KittenKoder> I don't know, it was a stupid flash of an image in my hea.
17:33:20 <planetmaker> oh.... elite. 4 colours, big polygons... :-) excellent game idea
17:33:42 <KittenKoder> That's what I get for thinking about OTTD while watching Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22770 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
17:45:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by planetmaker
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 103 changes by vytulis7
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 267 changes by Peymanpn
17:46:00 <planetmaker> oh, Terkhen missed his beat here ;-)
17:46:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22771 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify some NewGRFScan calling code
17:46:35 <Rubidium> he has been warned
17:46:42 <Rubidium> s/s/d/
17:48:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22772 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt: -Fix (r22770): validation error
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18:13:12 <Terkhen> I always forget this stuff :)
18:14:23 <Terkhen> there, done for tomorrow
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18:20:39 <Terkhen>
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18:49:45 <vb> hi guys
18:50:05 <Terkhen> hi vb
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18:53:37 <LordAro> hmmm... how can i find position on character in char array? google only shows stuff about c# and std::string...
18:53:44 <LordAro> s/on/of/
18:55:12 <Terkhen> check (IIRC) string_func.h
18:56:12 <Rubidium> strchr
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19:21:14 <Alberth> LordAro: char *p = start; while (*p && *p != char_you_look_for) p++;
19:22:47 <Rubidium> Alberth: why code when it already exists?
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19:24:17 <Alberth> a) it's simpler to understand for new programmers, b) tomorrow 'p++;' becomes more complicated by throwing away non-printable characters
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19:40:28 <__ln__> is there a single-person version of the schönes wochenende ticket?
19:43:08 <__ln__> i don't see one
19:48:54 <pjpe> new gameplay idea: raised subway/tram/hanging trains
19:49:01 <pjpe> like the loop in chicago
19:49:07 <pjpe> someone make it now now now now
19:50:12 <Terkhen> check the forums, already done somewhere
19:50:16 <pjpe> oh really
19:50:17 <Terkhen> IIRC it was glitchy
19:50:26 <Terkhen> and from what I know someone is a busy individual :)
19:51:20 <pjpe> do you know what the name was like?
19:51:39 <__ln__> schwebebahn? (dunno, but that's a good guess)
19:51:43 <Terkhen> I remember that it was a replacement for tram graphics that made they look as if they were hanging
19:51:56 <Terkhen> regarding the name... no idea, make a search for "tram" in the online content
19:52:04 <pjpe> ah only made it look
19:52:15 <pjpe> wonder how hard it would be to make an actual raised rail
19:52:32 <pjpe> so you could build things one tile over a road while still having the road be useful
19:52:56 <Terkhen> depends on what you mean with "things"
19:53:03 <Terkhen> if it is trams, easy
19:53:13 <Terkhen> if it is anything else... not
19:53:53 <pjpe> what's the big limitation with rails then?
19:55:50 <Terkhen> I'm torn between no space in map array and TMWFLB
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19:57:33 <Terkhen> but "too much work for little benefit" is not a big limitation as long as someone is willing to work on it so if you manage to find someone to do it I'll go with the first one :)
19:58:00 <pjpe> well i've found myself
19:58:04 <pjpe> if i bother doing this
19:58:31 <pjpe> i mean you can have bridges going over roads
19:58:53 <pjpe> if i can adapt that
19:59:14 <pjpe> make it so bridges don't have to end on empty tiles
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19:59:22 <pjpe> and then be able to move diagonally on bridges
19:59:27 <pjpe> even if it's just one diagonal tile
20:00:30 <Terkhen> check docs/landscape.html
20:01:58 <pjpe> is there any good reason we can't build signals on bridges yet or have no acceptable patches come by for that?
20:02:30 <pjpe> i'm kind of scared to develop any patch because i keep thinking there must be a reason this stuff isn't in trunk already
20:03:19 <Terkhen> the number 1 reason for not having logical stuff like that on trunk is that no one bothered to create a working solution that is up to trunk standards
20:03:27 <Terkhen> there was a hacky patch that did signals in tunnels and on bridges
20:03:44 <Terkhen> the author was working on some stuff that paved the path to a real solution, but IIRC he left it at that point
20:03:51 <pjpe> but theoretically if i made a patch that was not buggy that did signals on bridges
20:03:56 <pjpe> and coded to a good standard
20:04:00 <pjpe> that could be in trunk?
20:04:22 <Terkhen> yes
20:04:31 <Terkhen> <--- you might want to check this thread
20:05:01 <Terkhen> <--- and this one
20:07:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22773 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp water.h water_cmd.cpp): -Add: Some grass around rivers in desert areas.
20:07:07 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I sincerely apologize for directly obsoleting the desert river coast again :)
20:07:23 <Terkhen> nah, it still can be used in the SE
20:07:33 <Terkhen> :P
20:09:26 <Terkhen> hmm... when is the layout number chosen for an industry? when it is built?
20:09:59 <Alberth> it tries various layouts until it fits the terrain
20:10:26 <Terkhen> but once it is chosen, the layout remains constant right?
20:10:59 <Terkhen> what I mean is: is the callback called again?
20:11:09 <Alberth> <-- a hack for andy to generate predictable industry layouts
20:11:09 * Terkhen may be confusing stuff
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20:13:11 <Terkhen> urgh
20:13:23 <Terkhen> once again, a simple task opens a can of worms
20:15:15 <Terkhen> if I understood this correctly, each industry is assigned a layout number when it is created, and the industry will always use the tile layout that is assigned to that number
20:15:30 <Terkhen> I need a way to change the selection of available layouts, depending on date
20:16:01 <Terkhen> for example: layout 4 is only available after 1870, the rest are always available
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20:16:49 <Terkhen> I don't see any way to do this on the specs
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20:17:50 <Alberth> doesn't sound like something you would want to do, imho
20:18:12 <Terkhen> as long as there is any alternative, I don't mind how to do it :)
20:18:22 <Alberth> can you double the number of layouts by copying all, and later replace the doubles?
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20:18:48 <Terkhen> hmm... why do you want to do that?
20:19:09 <Alberth> have more layouts for the user as time progresses :p
20:19:52 <Terkhen> but they would be the same
20:20:02 <Alberth> before 1870 yes
20:20:26 <Terkhen> and after?
20:20:43 <Alberth> but if you can change the doubles by new layouts after 1870, you have what you want
20:21:06 <Terkhen> but the point is that I don't think I can change layouts at all
20:21:14 <Terkhen> I could decide to use different sprites by date for industry tiles
20:21:29 <Terkhen> but industries themselves use a list of layouts and I don't see any way to change that list
20:21:59 <Terkhen> so I'm guessing that industries are assigned a random layout and they stick with it
20:22:07 <Alberth> that's bad for you, but good for openttd imho :)
20:22:15 <Terkhen> why?
20:22:31 <Alberth> newgrf changing #layouts without telling
20:22:36 <Terkhen> I don't want to change layouts
20:22:44 <Terkhen> I want to use a different selection depending on date
20:22:57 <Terkhen> after that, the industry sticks with that layout
20:23:13 <Alberth> ignore the layout value ?
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20:24:08 <KittenKoder> NewGRFs change a lot of things without telling.
20:24:32 <Alberth> yes, and it makes keeping things running complicated
20:24:46 <KittenKoder> Complicated ... you mean challenging.
20:24:46 <Terkhen> <--- industries have a static list of layouts; to my knowledge they will use the one they are assigned no matter what
20:24:57 <Terkhen> I'm fine with industries using the layout they are assigned
20:25:03 <Rubidium> isn't there a callback for deciding the layout, or is that stations?
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20:25:32 <Terkhen> I just want to decide the list of available layouts when the industry is being created
20:25:38 <Terkhen> I only found it for stations
20:27:29 <Terkhen> it would be something similar to that station callback, yes
20:28:24 <Terkhen> anyways, if it depends on a new OpenTTD callback this task is not as small as I thought :P
20:28:30 <frosch123> industries decide layouts randomly
20:28:44 <frosch123> there is a fs task by andy to allow filtering of the layout in cb 28
20:28:52 <frosch123> i think it was never finished :p
20:29:49 <Terkhen> <--- implemented :O
20:30:49 <frosch123> :)
20:31:08 <Terkhen> thanks, this will work
20:31:17 <Terkhen> I was taking the ugly path as usual :P
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20:42:34 <andythenorth> michi_cc: what did you do :o
20:42:49 <andythenorth> actually you saved me from having to make the desert river tiles better :P
20:43:13 <michi_cc> andythenorth:
20:43:21 <andythenorth> he
20:43:23 <andythenorth> nice
20:43:35 <Rubidium> nah, they'll still be 'bad' when you build them in SE. Won't they?
20:43:43 <andythenorth> I just won't do that
20:43:47 <andythenorth> problem solved no?
20:44:27 <michi_cc> Same behavior in SE, but you can of course manually place desert to force desert river coasts.
20:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> has the river generator any similarities with the one i programmed once upon a time?
20:45:04 <andythenorth> Terkhen: did you solve the layout thing?
20:45:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: take a look
20:45:11 <andythenorth> in principle the answer is known
20:45:31 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I solved my confusion at least :)
20:45:35 <Terkhen> I'll take a go at it tomorrow
20:45:36 <Rubidium> as I have no clue what you programmed long ago
20:45:41 <michi_cc> Your generator worked on the raw height data, didn't it? Rb's is done on the final map.
20:46:16 <andythenorth> Terkhen: FWIW, you just check the layout number against date
20:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: probably not then ;)
20:46:23 <andythenorth> then you return "don't build" if it's invalid
20:46:24 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think that refusing to build certain layouts if they are out of their correct date would be enough
20:46:27 <Terkhen> yes, that
20:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: yes.
20:46:28 <Terkhen> :P
20:46:30 <andythenorth> then cb28 will try to build again
20:46:34 <andythenorth> for all layouts
20:46:41 <andythenorth> until it's run out of layouts :P
20:46:51 <Terkhen> with NewGRFs I usually choose the ugliest path first
20:47:03 <Terkhen> since I know that already from past experiences, I asked here :P
20:47:15 <andythenorth> the actual solution is quite clean :)
20:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: which was kind of a problem since it could flow down steep slopes and such, which i couldn't properly terraform
20:47:26 <Terkhen> I agree :)
20:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it could get stuck in tiny sinks
20:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which could be solved...
20:48:28 <michi_cc> The implemented generator has surprisingly good result for the number of code lines used.
20:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yep. haven't checked it yet, but the image looks nice
20:49:07 <andythenorth> I think the results are awesome :)
20:49:22 <andythenorth> apart from towns don't straddle rivers enough :P
20:49:47 <andythenorth> now we have to educate FIRS agricultural industries to build near rivers in desert :P
20:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can build bridges as a player ;)
20:49:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: they should do it at map gen though
20:50:06 <andythenorth> towns grow up around rivers
20:50:16 <andythenorth> plus it would look neat
20:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, but usually only one side
20:50:26 <Rubidium> they ought to favour rivers, like they favour coasts
20:50:34 <michi_cc> A* with random tile cost from a start to an end tile, that's it.
20:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> before industrialisation, river bridges were scarce
20:51:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: before industrialisation, trains were scarce
20:51:11 <andythenorth> hmm
20:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but coast favouring is done like "if tile = water, search nearest cost"
20:51:17 <andythenorth> towns can destroy a river?
20:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they should not
20:51:33 <andythenorth> I think they can
20:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: players can
20:51:36 <andythenorth> I haven't proven it
20:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if towns can, it's probably a bug
20:51:53 <andythenorth> towns will terraform occasionally?
20:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> missing "don't destroy water" flag
20:52:25 * andythenorth can't remember if towns terraform
20:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> industries had that problem once, but it should have been fixed
20:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, towns occasionally terraform
20:52:57 <andythenorth> in that case they might be able to destroy rivers. I haven't read the code to check
20:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they should avoid water on this terraforming
20:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all commands, especially terraforming ones, can have a flag "do not touch water"
20:54:34 <andythenorth> this would be solved by reading the code I guess :)
20:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all town actions should have that flag set
20:55:00 <Rubidium> michi_cc: it isn't fully A* though. First a BFS for the closests flat lower tile that can be reached over inclined slopes (in the right direction), repeated till it reaches the coast of a valley (in which case it tries to makes a lake). Then A* with random tile costs to fill in the bits between the already created 'waypoints'
20:58:43 <michi_cc> Rubidium: That was the executive summary ;)
21:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # dip, dip, dip in the viz, viz, viz in the water, in the water ... clean
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21:08:28 <Prof_Frink> Musk ox musk ox not very dirty.
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21:09:03 * andythenorth thinks it might be time to go
21:09:16 <andythenorth> the work here may be done
21:10:05 <KittenKoder> I really don't like the dev site .... >.< I give up on my train set concept anyway.
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21:12:02 <Terkhen> what dev site?
21:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: different humour :p
21:14:21 <KittenKoder> The openttd one. ;)
21:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the devzone
21:15:04 <KittenKoder> Yeah.
21:15:14 <Terkhen> openttd or openttdcoop?
21:15:29 <KittenKoder> Both actually.
21:16:05 <KittenKoder> But the coop one's layout really annoys me.
21:16:25 * KittenKoder is a very firm follower of KISS
21:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> any complaints/annoyances in particular or are you just rambling senselessly?
21:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "GOP presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann said today that Americans "fear the rise of the Soviet Union" during an appearance on a conservative radio talk show."
21:18:06 <KittenKoder> Mostly just rambling again.
21:18:33 <Terkhen> for openttd you can also check
21:18:40 <Terkhen> I like the coop one myself :)
21:19:08 <KittenKoder> Terkhen, that one it's just the complexity that annoys me, the coop just has a bit more than annoys me more.
21:19:10 <KittenKoder> :p
21:19:20 <Terkhen> what complexity? it is quite simple
21:19:41 * andythenorth finds it simple
21:20:15 <KittenKoder> The problem is that the complexity of open source projects these days can't be helped .... so honestly I have no solutions to offer, it's just my gripe.
21:20:59 * andythenorth gripes about pixels in a similar way
21:21:37 <KittenKoder> The only thing about the pixels in OTTD that annoys me is the horizontal and vertical stretching.
21:22:41 <KittenKoder> Just noticed there's a Flash banner in the .... >.< I'm in a bad mood today I guess.
21:24:04 <KittenKoder> That's what I should do, not for OTTD mind you, but see if I can't create a better multi-author system for open source projects that's simpler but still effective.
21:24:32 <KittenKoder> But alas .... I'm too lazy so blah.
21:24:33 <KittenKoder> LOL
21:29:11 <KittenKoder> My train set concept was stupid ....
21:29:53 <KittenKoder> I need something else to occupy my time.
21:31:12 <andythenorth> good night
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21:32:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22774 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] String codes for dates should use unsigned words, like old OpenTTD did before it learned dates before 1920. (Hirundo)
21:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: the "check timetables" option could warn if a large aircraft has a small airport in its orders
21:42:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22775 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Fix: [NewGRF] Stringcodes 82 and 83 are the same as the date codes in old OpenTTD. (Hirundo)
21:46:23 <Terkhen> good night
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21:55:09 <Katje> is it possible to load a new set of ships during a game ?
21:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no
21:55:41 <KittenKoder> Nope.
21:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you must start a new game
21:56:01 <KittenKoder> Use to be possible but that was highly unstable anyway.
22:04:37 <Wolf01> 'night
22:04:39 <Katje> aah
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22:06:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22776 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp strings.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Codechange: Unify the naming of NewGRF string codes; always include the size of the parameter on the stack. (based on patch by Hirundo)
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22:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> what's with the commit spree tonight`
22:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean today had like 10 times the commits than the average over the past 2 months
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22:14:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22777 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix-ish: [NewGRF] Stringcode 9A 01 is signed, and 9A 0B is kind of unsigned. But since both were already casted to the right types later, this makes actually no difference.
22:15:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it's too warm to sleep :p
22:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds rather like a cleanup-ish ;)
22:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's the only warm day in the whole summer, and still the germans manage to complain :p
22:16:51 <frosch123> nope, it was already warm thursday and friday
22:17:02 <frosch123> so it is the third hot day this week
22:17:08 <__ln__> what, you've been having a cold summer?
22:17:16 <frosch123> not cold, just rainy
22:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it was fairly cold some days, and especially nights
22:17:50 <frosch123> well, i am mort southern than eddi :)
22:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so you weren't hit by the giant storm?
22:18:33 <frosch123> when?
22:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> was either yesterday or the day before
22:19:51 <frosch123> hmm, wednesday afternoon there was a lot of rain in the afternoon
22:19:55 <__ln__> the summer here has been the warmest in ~25 years
22:20:05 <frosch123> but it was sunny again when i got home from work
22:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: a few people in belgium died at an open air festival
22:20:56 <frosch123> oh, and friday noon was also lots of rain, and some lightning
22:21:00 <frosch123> but then i was at work as well
22:21:03 <frosch123> so, who cares?
22:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> friday noon sounds roughly like the time
22:21:31 <frosch123> i am not exactly close to belgium
22:21:52 <frosch123> i think czech rep. is the next border
22:22:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only half an hour or so
22:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it probably only affected northern germany or sow...
22:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> -w
22:23:34 <frosch123> hmm, my geography is as bad as i expected :p
22:24:13 <frosch123> belgium, lux, and cz are about same distance
22:24:33 <frosch123> france might be closest though
22:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the only disance i know is that it's about 160km to berlin
22:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> czechia might be closer than that, but probably not much
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22:35:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22778 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Add: [NewGRF] Stringcodes for printing 0-based dates. (Hirundo)
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22:46:54 <Hirundo> frosch123: My use case for 'force' was to display the TE of engines in the additional text, but indeed that's not directly entered by the newgrf
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22:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TE is given as multiplier for mass, or am i missing something?
22:50:24 <Hirundo> it's (10 * mass * coeff) / 256, with coeff being set by the newgrf (0 .. 255)
22:50:58 <frosch123> what additional text?
22:51:07 <frosch123> isn't te shown anyway?
22:52:01 <frosch123> yeah, newgrf currently set the friction using and 8 bit fixed point fractional number
22:53:21 <frosch123> if we would use the same unit for newgrfs, then it would be a "print mass in force unit"-stringcode
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22:59:05 <Hirundo> frosch123: You're not going to add power either? or missed that?
22:59:32 <frosch123> i have not yet
22:59:44 <frosch123> but i guess that should be fine
23:00:02 <__ln__> i decided to experience the ICE-on-ferry myself; now i should figure out where to go and what to see between puttgarden and berlin.
23:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the ICE goes to hamburg, i thought
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23:01:22 <__ln__> it does; or actually i think there's even one directly to berlin.
23:01:42 <__ln__> i was considering stopping at lübeck at least
23:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to go to travemünde then, not sure if there is anything worthwhile so, besides the sea ;)
23:02:41 <__ln__> umm, the direct one also goes through hamburg.
23:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: there's probably no useful alternative track...
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23:05:38 <frosch123> he, why are there about 5 "signed" in the comments if there should be "unsigned"s
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23:07:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22779 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Add: [NewGRF] Stringcode for printing a unsinged word in power units. (Hirundo)
23:09:20 <frosch123> hmm, the wiki actually says they should be signed...
23:10:02 <Hirundo> ^that's why
23:10:16 <__ln__> mecklenburg-vorpommern seems to be within walking distance from lübeck
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23:10:57 <frosch123> Hirundo: it should at least match for the ottd-only stringcodes :p
23:12:13 <frosch123> the other two are original ttd codes, and old ottd print them as signed word
23:13:05 <frosch123> though signed speeds and volumes are not exactly useful :p
23:13:35 <Hirundo> Who says, this stuff actually has to be used ;-)
23:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: yep, that was actually a problem right after the war, lübeck was practically cut off from half the local "back lands"
23:16:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22780 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Fix: [NewGRF] String codes 84 and 87 print signed values.
23:19:48 <__ln__> was the border right there, within walking distance?
23:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the current border between schleswig-holstein and mecklenburg-vorpommern was also the border between BRD and DDR
23:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it hasn't moved since the dissolving of prussia
23:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and before that it was border between prussian provinces (mostly)
23:21:30 <__ln__> ok
23:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was always some kind of border, but never really fortified until then
23:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> schleswig and holstein were under danish rule until 1866-ish
23:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (while schleswig was fully under danish control, holstein was part of the german empire (until 1806) and the german confederation (after 1815)
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23:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> mecklenburg wasn't part of prussia actually
23:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> pommern was, but that's kind of further east
23:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hinterpommern is now in poland
23:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> vorpommern is part of germany
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23:31:34 <alluke> how to install patches on mac
23:31:53 <glx> like on other OS
23:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> same as any other os
23:32:07 <alluke> that is?
23:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> have you compiled on mac yet without patches?
23:32:30 <alluke> never
23:32:39 <alluke> i read wiki about that and passed uut
23:32:40 <frosch123> night
23:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> then go through the "compiling on mac" section on the wiki
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23:32:44 <glx> that will be the first step
23:32:56 <alluke> isnt there any app like buildottd
23:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no
23:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that is windows-only
23:33:08 <alluke> would it work on crossover
23:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't try that...
23:33:31 <alluke> how
23:33:40 <alluke> if it screws up i can always dl new one
23:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a totally insane thought.
23:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's so insane i can't even come up with a proper analogy
23:35:05 <alluke> lulz
23:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm serious :)
23:35:39 <alluke> doing the way wiki says is even more insane
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23:36:01 <glx> OSX is insane :)
23:36:16 <__ln__> i have an analogy but i'm googling for a reference right now
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23:37:35 <__ln__> here:
23:40:31 <alluke> all i wanted was 2 patches on new ottd ;_____;
23:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: then wait until they are included in trunk. or follow the wiki.
23:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or switch to windows.
23:41:39 <alluke> yeah
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23:44:49 <__ln__> meanwhile in netherlands:
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23:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably on purpose. or fake.
23:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, the section on the lower left looks horribly photoshopped
23:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or photoshopped horribly
23:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or both
23:50:38 <__ln__> the reflection looks weird, yes
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