IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-08-03
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05:02:52 <pikka> oops
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06:38:32 <pikka> foiled by foil!
06:38:52 <pikka> hello andy and other such
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06:53:15 <planetmaker> moin
06:59:30 <pikka> good morning planetmaker
06:59:42 <pikka> and goodbye, for now!
07:02:09 <planetmaker> :-) sleep well mr bird
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07:19:43 <pikka> hopefully not, planetmaker, I still have 4 hours of work left. :)
07:32:08 <planetmaker> :-D Indeed, then better not :-)
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07:51:04 <andythenorth> morgen
07:51:18 <planetmaker> morning, andythenorth & Alberth
07:51:18 <andythenorth> I want multi-stop docks so much, I started a sock puppet:
08:01:38 <planetmaker> uhm... don't start sock puppets, andythenorth
08:02:01 <andythenorth> yeah - good point :P
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08:19:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth, mind that it's a feature-request for FISH, not for OpenTTD :-P
08:19:59 <andythenorth> nah not really :)
08:20:04 <andythenorth> I asked for it to be moved
08:20:26 <andythenorth> he's asking for multi-stop docks
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08:32:40 <pikka> new(sea)ports
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08:36:48 <planetmaker> same thing, different name, old desire :-P
08:38:34 <pikka> apparently the av8 thread needs to get back to talking about trains....
08:38:43 <planetmaker> :-D
08:39:14 <fjunike> hi. "local num_of_groups = group_list.Count();" crashs with clas method is non-static.
08:40:39 <fjunike> how can i solve it?
08:40:46 <planetmaker> fjunike, if you've got a bug in an official OpenTTD version, it's strongly recommended to use the official bug tracker
08:40:54 <planetmaker> Otherwise: WAY too little information here
08:41:24 <planetmaker> (well, also for a bug report it's WAY too little information)
08:41:46 <fjunike> i got no account i try to make one but never got the confimation Email :(
08:42:05 <planetmaker> did you check spam bin etc?
08:42:14 <fjunike> ever day ;)
08:42:22 <fjunike> +y
08:42:26 * planetmaker does never check that :-P
08:42:34 <fjunike> gg
08:43:20 <Terkhen> good morning
08:45:14 <planetmaker> in any case, fjunike: with the amount of information you provide, I doubt anyone will ever be able to help you
08:46:40 <fjunike> i vorgot to tell you the group_list is a list of AIGroupList and i just wont to know haw many groups did the AI own
08:48:34 <planetmaker> you know... no one here knows your problem... I strongly suggest you take a read at
08:49:12 <fjunike> i also try "local num_of_groups = AIGroupList.Count();"
08:49:18 <planetmaker> and possibly make a forum posting about it
08:49:34 <planetmaker> on my part, all things you say are still without any context at all.
08:49:50 <fjunike> the problem? the AI crash at this line
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08:50:19 <planetmaker> see. That's the first piece of _crucial_ information: it's a crash in *an* AI - not in OpenTTD
08:50:26 <planetmaker> Next piece: which AI?
08:50:31 <planetmaker> If custom: what's your code?
08:50:32 <planetmaker> etc pp.
08:50:44 <planetmaker> it's not our task to think of what you might have possibly done where.
08:50:55 <planetmaker> It's your task to provide ALL necessary information to understand your problem
08:50:57 <pikka> fjunike: you need to start with "I'm writing an AI" and go from there
08:51:59 <pikka> also it just got dark in here. darn battery saver.
08:52:01 <planetmaker> we also have the NoAI forum at for a reason ;-)
08:52:32 <planetmaker> also more people might read it there than (currently at this time) in IRC
08:56:07 <pikka> I'm off again, later chaps
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08:57:53 <planetmaker> enjoy :-)
09:01:36 <fjunike> i found my mistake by myself. i forgot the () behind AIGroupList #(
09:07:24 <dihedral> good morning
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10:05:25 <avaratar> че за?...
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10:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm leaning towards "no."
10:13:20 <fjunike> is there a function to remove double values in a list?
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10:25:53 <Alberth> do you have a set?
10:27:14 <fjunike> set? Just helper.nut but i wrote a function by myselfe to do the remove
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10:30:38 <planetmaker> Alberth, it's NoAI code
10:31:35 <Alberth> yeah, but I don't know squirrel, so I ask whether it has a set as data structure, as that is the standard way of not having doubles
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11:52:14 <fjunike> its done :)
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12:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> good appetite then :p
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12:54:07 <Zuu> Oh fjuike just left. Anyway, IIRC you can't add duplicates to AIList.
12:54:16 <Zuu> (on the keys)
12:54:30 <Zuu> Several keys can have the same value of course, but no key duplicates.
12:55:01 <Zuu> When you get eg. an AITownLIst, then the keys are the towns.
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12:57:36 <planetmaker> should I direct him to you when he returns? ;-)
12:57:58 <planetmaker> he has somewhat the habit of not mentioning any context to his mutterings
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12:58:34 <flitz> hi
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12:59:32 <flitz> I would like to use some function that is declared static, should I make it non-static and public und some headerfile or should I duplicate the code ?
13:00:25 <flitz> the function is CopyHeadSpecificThings(...) from autoreplace, I don't think there should be any problems if it was globally accessible
13:04:29 <planetmaker> don't duplicate code. Make it non-static
13:05:46 <planetmaker> you might consider to make a (new) public accessor, if you don't need everything of the current private function
13:05:49 <flitz> I thought so too. Just wasn't sure whether there is any specific reason for the function being static. Like capsulation or something
13:06:19 <planetmaker> static allows inlining by the compiler, thus might give some speed advantages. IIRC. Not entirely sure
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13:10:15 <flitz> ah okay, I just know that it is also a scope thing in C because there are no namespaces or classes to encapsulate them in
13:11:14 <planetmaker> well, maybe I err ;-)
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13:15:06 <insulfrog> hi all
13:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> making things static makes the job for the linker way easier.
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13:35:32 <flitz> because it doesn't have to look around as much for calls to that function ?
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14:08:48 <Zuu> planetmaker: indeed, he colud post more code, though I managed to figure out the most probable cause of his error before I figured it out in the log. :-)
14:10:22 <Zuu> In Squirrel you can assign types to variables and use those to refer to the types if you want.
14:13:19 <Pikka> scuddles be quiet
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14:18:23 <Scuddles> AAAAAAAA
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16:49:15 <pm2> I hate dDOS on my host providers' clients...
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17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22712 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
17:45:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latvian - 165 changes by dzhins
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18:20:26 <Wolf01> hello
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19:02:29 <dihedral>
19:02:31 <dihedral> ^^
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19:47:14 <krinn> hi
19:49:13 <krinn> i've check and AITile.IsBuildable return false when i check a water tile, my questions are then, if an industry is on a water tile (platform), will AITile.IsWater still answer true or this time false? (same question but with water depot)
19:50:17 <Zuu> I don't know for sure and would recommend making a test.
19:50:29 <andythenorth> beware of coast tiles
19:50:43 <krinn> coast tiles aren't a problem they answer to IsBuildable()
19:51:04 <planetmaker> IndustryTiles can have a waterclass. But whether the IsWater check actually returns true... needs a source code check
19:51:30 <Alberth> water is not water when it is buildable ?
19:51:57 <krinn> Alberth, that's my question yes, if it is, we could assume IsWater=true == IsBuildable=true
19:51:57 <Zuu> There is also a AITile.IsWater IIRC
19:52:11 <planetmaker> krinn: the docs in the source say only when it's a water tile. An industry tile is not a water tile
19:52:11 <frosch123> IsBuildable returns false for both stations and industries
19:52:48 <frosch123> it also returns false for houses, and removable objects
19:52:55 <krinn> i know that frosch123 but it's an answer for non water tile
19:52:58 <planetmaker> IsWaterTile: return ::IsTileType(tile, MP_WATER) && !::IsCoast(tile);
19:53:08 <planetmaker> thus only clear water
19:53:23 <krinn> ok IsWater=false when a water depot in on the file, right ?
19:53:32 <krinn> /s/file/tile
19:53:37 <frosch123> oh, sorry
19:54:07 <frosch123> IsWarterTile return true only for water tiles, locks, ship depots, canals
19:54:20 <frosch123> it returns false for industries or objects build on water
19:54:25 <krinn> ah bad
19:54:44 <krinn> so i need to check actually IsWater==true if canals/depot... are their
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19:55:04 <frosch123> the problem with these functions is that it is wery hard to tell what they should actually do :)
19:55:20 <planetmaker> :-)
19:55:25 <krinn> we lack a IsWaterIsBuildable :)
19:55:27 <planetmaker> every implementation is wrong (or right)
19:55:37 <planetmaker> krinn: that's what AI libraries are for ;-)
19:55:45 <planetmaker> not everything needs to be in the API
19:55:57 <Zuu> Indeed, we don't want a too fat API.
19:55:59 <frosch123> also we always seem to forget to update api functions when adding something new :p
19:56:07 <frosch123> like objects
19:56:17 <krinn> Zuu, you have such function ?
19:56:25 <Zuu> Yea, where is the NoAI NewObject API?
19:56:35 <Zuu> krinn: No, I haven't worked with water.
19:56:51 <Zuu> There is a library with buyo functions. Take a look there.
19:57:15 <Zuu> MinchinWeb's MetaLibrary:
19:58:05 <Zuu> at least from what I remember when I read its in-game bananas description.
19:58:56 <krinn> lol requires superlib
19:59:28 <krinn> i'll have a look to see if he handle that or make my own function
20:00:25 <Zuu> On the other hand, regarding NewObjects, AIs can't buy land at the moment so perhaps NewObjects could be explained as a more pretty way of buying land and thus a reason why AIs can't use it. :-)
20:01:44 <Zuu> krinn: Not sure if the MetaLibrary requires SuperLib or if it is just the AI.
20:01:47 <frosch123> Zuu: there are objects which can be just removed like half road pieces by just building over them
20:02:00 <frosch123> maybe such objects should report true for IsBuildable
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20:02:22 <Zuu> frosch123: NewObject objects?
20:02:23 <frosch123> however, if they are on water, maybe they shall report IsWater instead :p
20:02:26 <krinn> Zuu, seems not you're right, but he only add some kind of pathfinding in it, others functions are taken by your lib
20:02:28 <frosch123> Zuu: yes
20:02:44 <frosch123> though argueable there are none released :p
20:02:54 <Zuu> krinn: Yep, probably because SuperLib 7 didn't have pathfinding yet ;-)
20:03:27 <krinn> gonna check AIWater to see possible failure to build on water
20:03:54 <Zuu> Nowdays SuperLib have functions to: Bulid road from A to B, build road station in town X, build road station for industry Y. So one could write a very short and simple AI with it.
20:04:52 <krinn> hmmm, like a tutorialAI :)
20:05:53 <Zuu> Yep, for that one I included pathfinding in SuperLib.
20:06:24 <Zuu> frosch123: Those on land, are they overbuildable by any kind of infrastructure or just road?
20:06:56 <krinn> planetmaker, AIList.Valuate convert true/false to value right ?
20:07:21 <planetmaker> krinn: I have to look up all those things, too ;-)
20:07:34 <Zuu> krinn: It convert true to 1 and false to 0.
20:07:42 <Zuu> As written in the docs/wiki.
20:07:57 <krinn> that's what i was reminding yep, thx guys
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20:15:21 <krinn> i'm good at digging things that doesn't exist :)
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20:19:57 <frosch123> Zuu: they are like rocky land
20:20:06 <frosch123> they are just more expensive to clear
20:20:12 <frosch123> but you do not need to bulldoze them
20:20:27 <frosch123> however, for objects these things can also exist on water
20:22:31 <Zuu> So they are like what we already got as farmland and rocky terrain. In principle they would be buildable then.
20:22:50 <Zuu> For farmland there IIRC exist a function IsFarmLand or similar.
20:23:06 <Zuu> Which some AIs use in their path-finders to avoid farmland.
20:24:51 <Zuu> In general, the API do not have cost functions, instead it rely on the accounting and test mode for cost queries. Maybe it might be motivated to have a CostToClear function as that one I guess would not cost a DoCommand which I guess a test-build would do even if it is in test-mode.
20:26:55 <Zuu> Oh, the API have access to some base costs nowdays.
20:27:29 <krinn> it's new i think, the GetBuildCost one ?
20:27:31 <Zuu> these base costs are supported:
20:27:42 <Zuu> krinn: Yes afaik
20:28:06 <krinn> but it's new to 1.1 i think
20:28:51 <frosch123> Zuu: it needs a test command
20:29:26 <frosch123> though cost estimation of ais would fail anyway for objects just like it does for ottd
20:29:50 <frosch123> if you clear multitile objects you have to pay the amount to clear the whole object
20:29:59 <Zuu> So, using clear-cost to avoid certain tiles would be very expansive to use in a pathfinder even if it moves into the API.
20:30:04 <frosch123> but you also have to pay it only once even when building over multiple tiles
20:34:01 <Zuu> So (continuing on my theory), if cost estimation at each tile would slow down pathfinding alot, AIs need some way to identify NewObjects using attributes rather than executing a DoCommand in test-mode.
20:34:11 <Zuu> Perhaps IsObject?
20:34:56 <Zuu> Or could there be any NewObject that makes building over it benefitical?
20:35:06 <krinn> NewObjects are what (sorry to disturb) some fancy objects newGRF can use and drop but still destroyable (like say a little statue or things like that)?
20:35:59 <krinn> like trees, buildable by anyone, but removable by anyone
20:36:45 <Zuu> But I guess at least the situation that a free to clear NewObject could happen. Thus if the AIs mark all Objects evil, then it will faulty take a longer distance around some tiles.
20:37:55 <Zuu> krinn: NewGRF spec: <-- see pages for "Objects"
20:39:05 <Zuu> Here's the NML spec of NewObjects:
20:39:41 <frosch123> krinn: objects may be destroyable like rocky land, or like houses (i.e. not "Buildable" in ai terms). they may be on land, water or both
20:40:25 <frosch123> so a IsObject tile test is bad, as it is easy to miss the water test
20:40:39 <krinn> shit, if one makes lion statues as newObject, my ai won't be able to drop two of them in front of my HQ :)
20:40:58 <frosch123> the problem of all these IsXYZ functions is, that some tiles are just multiple things :)
20:41:11 <Zuu> frosch123: How about AITile.IsClear? Would return true only on tiles without trees, objects, stations etc.
20:41:38 <frosch123> water?
20:41:53 <Zuu> would be clear I guess
20:42:28 <Zuu> I guess HasTreeOnTile will never return true if the tile has something like a house or rock on it.
20:43:02 <krinn> a IsClearOfObject ? would answer to a tile not checking its status (land/water or anything): just answer got some object yes/no
20:43:03 <frosch123> Zuu: we had the same problem with trees on shore
20:43:51 <planetmaker> krinn: but... what about an object called "company owned land"?
20:44:00 <planetmaker> wouldn't you want it to return "free"?
20:44:00 <frosch123> they are reported as both shore and trees now
20:44:01 <Zuu> So shore-tiles have water according to IsWater?
20:44:14 <frosch123> but what to do with rail on a halftile foundations with water on the lower side?
20:44:26 <frosch123> it is a railtile, but even ships can travel on it
20:44:29 <krinn> planetmaker, no, if it's an object, return false
20:44:33 <frosch123> and bulldozing is really expensive
20:44:49 <planetmaker> which reminds me... now with adv. sprite layouts I should be able to much more easily fence that...
20:44:52 <frosch123> Zuu: no, shores do not count as water
20:45:01 <krinn> but the question is can we always remove the objects or not?
20:45:29 <frosch123> krinn: you cannot remove houses always either
20:45:37 <frosch123> it depends on the object
20:45:53 <frosch123> so, the api might actually hide the objects from the ais
20:46:00 <planetmaker> the "behave like fields" type is easily removed. Others not
20:46:03 <frosch123> and just report them as houses or farmland
20:46:07 <krinn> but doing so, ai will be blind against them
20:46:17 <Zuu> I see the problem with the diagonal rail tile that also has water. Though, I also see that the function to get transport type is formulated as HasTransportType rather than GetTransportType.
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20:47:06 <planetmaker> Zuu: those tiles are not only a pain for AIs. It's also quite a nasty piece of code wrt drawing
20:47:13 <frosch123> Zuu: yeah, that is also needed for level crossings :)
20:49:42 <krinn> it's nasty to have bit 3+4 (irremovable+anything can remove)
20:49:54 <krinn> it's nasty to have bit 0+1 (irremovable+anything can remove)
20:50:08 <krinn> grr actualy it's 1+2
20:51:54 <krinn> shouldn't it just be clear for anyone can remove and set if irremovable?
20:53:09 <frosch123> it's always nice if the most used value is 0
20:53:48 <krinn> if i get it right: ai would then be force to do "lame" : raise tile corner to get the object clear, lower it = don't use buldozer but remove it
20:54:01 <krinn> with a x25 cost to raise the tile
20:54:17 <frosch123> what?
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20:54:32 <frosch123> i think you don't get it right :p
20:54:38 <krinn> a little note says : irremoable object can be remove but not with buldozer
20:54:54 <krinn> Object cannot be removed through normal dynamite, control must be held and the removal cost will be multiplied by 25 (this is the usual behaviour for most class A objects in TTDPatch).
20:55:02 <krinn> that's a part i don't get clear :)
20:55:07 <frosch123> krinn: that translates as "magic bulldozer" for ottd
20:55:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22713 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Per vehicle custom cargo ageing period.
20:55:12 <frosch123> and is not available for ais
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20:55:28 <frosch123> there are also certain houses which are generally not removable for ais, but for humans
20:55:29 <planetmaker> krinn: magic bulldozer
20:55:42 <krinn> it's a cheat feature no ?
20:55:47 <planetmaker> yes
20:55:53 <frosch123> a human only cheat :p
20:56:04 <krinn> kinda strange to build a spec over a cheat
20:56:10 <planetmaker> why?
20:56:34 <frosch123> krinn: it just says that the cheat circumvents the restriction of the grf
20:56:45 <krinn> well, it's a cheat, who cares to have right to do things or not, it's a cheat, just remove it without taking care about a "can my cheat do that" status?
20:57:00 <frosch123> there is no flag "do not allow magic bulldozer" either
20:57:07 <Zuu> @commit 22713 above: even more complexity :)
20:57:07 <DorpsGek> Zuu: Invalid arguments for _commit.
20:57:17 <frosch123> krinn: that's exactly what it says, isn't it?
20:57:33 <krinn> it's also strange to says x25 to remove it, x25 chat? the human cheat, he just click and get more money who will cares about cost ?
20:57:35 <planetmaker> Zuu: quite so ;-)
20:57:57 <planetmaker> I guess it'll need NoAI accessors
20:58:10 <frosch123> krinn: the spec is shared with ttdpatch, that line does not apply to ottd
20:58:11 <planetmaker> it's targeted at differing local vs. long-distance coaches
20:58:13 <planetmaker> and similar
20:58:16 <frosch123> magic bulldozer is always free
20:58:32 <frosch123> ttdp has the weird assumption that cheats shall cost money, so you have to also use the money cheat :p
20:58:47 <planetmaker> :-)
20:58:48 <krinn> lol, strange concept
20:59:48 <krinn> and we endup with "cheat" bit in newGRF spec, weird
21:00:18 <frosch123> i still don't get whats wrong with explaining the effect of a cheat in a footnote
21:00:33 <frosch123> footnotes are for explaining additional stuff
21:01:06 <krinn> it's clearer now
21:01:18 <krinn> but i didn't expect to see a bit use for a cheat
21:01:43 <krinn> it's strange to have a spec to control a cheat, that by def is to bypass spec :)
21:02:05 <Zuu> krinn: Which flag are you talking about? The OBJ_FLAG_IRREMOVABLE flag?
21:02:22 <krinn> yes
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21:02:41 <Zuu> I don't see how it specify how cheating should behaviour.
21:02:42 <krinn> note that i know 0 to newGRF, i just discover the page you sent me
21:02:55 <Zuu> All it says is that you can't remove the object.
21:03:14 <krinn> well if you look at bit 2 note, it says you can remove it, with extra x25 cost
21:03:20 <Zuu> The cheat exist to override it, in case you really want, but it is not intended that you should do that in normal gameplay.
21:03:58 <krinn> and your not surprise to see a spec saying : it's ok to cheat to remove that object but with extra cost of x25 ?
21:04:45 <Zuu> Not really. I mean the cheat to remove "unremovables" have existed for ages. For those who don't take the challenge to play with the landscape and aronud the obstacles.
21:05:33 <krinn> i wasn't thinking the cheat "checks" for an agree to cheat
21:07:57 <Zuu> In TTDPatch there existed (and probably still do) a cheat to change rail type. As for what I remember, there was requests to make that cheat cost money.
21:08:13 <Zuu> The cheat changed railtype of all your rail at one go.
21:08:40 <Zuu> And thus saved you from rebuilding all rail (and building all signals one by one again)
21:09:13 <krinn> lol and they also check memory to see one isn't using an +X trainer to cheat :)
21:10:00 <Zuu> No idea what an +X trainer exactly is.
21:10:09 <krinn> a cheat program
21:10:58 <krinn> because like it is, it looks like, you are allow to cheat but it will cost you money ! But you are also allow to cheat to get money :p
21:13:13 <frosch123> [23:05] <krinn> i wasn't thinking the cheat "checks" for an agree to cheat <- please read again, the specs say exactly that it does _NOT_ ask for agreement
21:14:29 <frosch123> the bit says: disallow removal by anything but the cheat
21:15:42 <krinn> whaooo took me time: i see why they are two now :)
21:16:19 <krinn> bit 1 set = none can remove it, bit 2 set anyone could, bit 2 unset = only owner can remove ?
21:16:48 <krinn> must be why the two bits instead of just 1
21:17:32 <planetmaker> nice, one step closer now to CETS, michi_cc :-)
21:19:41 <Zuu> planetmaker: CETS?
21:19:47 <krinn> i don't know who/what is CETS even i suspect michi_cc is someone
21:20:06 <Zuu> michi_cc is for sure a person
21:20:15 <Zuu> I can assure you ;-)
21:20:23 <krinn> guessing newGRF specs authors
21:20:33 <planetmaker> Zuu: central european train set - a tentative name for a newgrf...
21:20:38 <planetmaker> look through devzone projects
21:20:56 <Zuu> okay
21:21:15 <planetmaker> with wagons the length of one tile (and not 1/2)
21:21:21 <krinn> better than google answer: Child Exploitation Tracking System :)
21:22:30 <planetmaker> Currently it's a NewGRF without sprites ;-)
21:22:44 <planetmaker> well... without sprites different than boxes ;-)
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21:23:43 <krinn> i see trouble coming for ai author with that CETS
21:23:48 <__ln__> damn, i just figured out there's a direct flight connection to Leipzig/Halle from here, but it's unfortunately cargo only
21:24:05 <planetmaker> __ln__: just send a big parcel :-P
21:25:23 <krinn> a crate + live animal ?
21:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: DHL?
21:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> DHL moved its distribution center for europe and africa from brussels to halle/leipzig
21:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so all DHL planes go to and from there
21:27:46 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: the airline was listed as "Imperial Air Cargo", not sure whom does it fly for. (the emperor?!?)
21:28:04 <__ln__> there's a TNT terminal here at least.
21:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> they have two other such hubs, one for america and one for asia
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21:55:43 <planetmaker> good night
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21:56:20 <krinn> gn
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22:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc has this stealth-patching totally figured out :p
22:07:14 <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:14:47 <frosch123> night
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22:26:00 <Terkhen> good night
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22:44:08 <Zuu> Wohoo! .Net 4 seems to have gone broken on my machine. :-)
22:48:02 *** Adambean has quit IRC
22:48:57 <Zuu> At another computer .Net 3.5 break when I upgraded a program and when trying to resolve it using the methods that Microsoft suggest, my list of installed programs became empty. :-)
22:50:42 <Zuu> (microsoft solution to a corupt .Net is to uninstall all .Net versions all way down to .Net 1 and then re-installing them.)
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22:53:19 <krinn> feel lucky, they didn't not ask you to reinstall windows :)
22:53:48 <Zuu> well, that was what I choosed to do rather than spending time on something I wasn't sure would solve the issue.
22:54:28 <krinn> i hope it's not an issue that came a lot
22:54:59 * Zuu hopes too
22:57:20 <krinn> zuu: trying to raise townrating, doc says i need to plants tree, and even might remove them before to have the place to re-plant behind
22:57:24 <krinn> this works?
22:57:35 <Zuu> Yes, see wiki
22:57:44 <Zuu> game mechanics
22:57:49 <krinn> that's what i see yeah
22:58:12 <krinn> i can just pickup a place and plant/remove/replants until i reach a valid TR so?
22:58:51 <Zuu> That feature/cheat has been around since the beginning, nothing revolutionary.
22:59:21 <krinn> i suppose everyone do like that so
22:59:26 <Zuu> The trick is to do it over a larger area that is within town influence
23:00:01 <Zuu> It's way cheaper than bribing the town :-)
23:00:28 <krinn> and we cannot bribe town sometimes
23:00:44 <Zuu> Anyway, I still have the chance to beat yesterdays night time. So I'm off to bed.
23:01:41 <krinn> good night
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