IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-01
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00:19:52 <caracal> so why would i see four vehicles in the "Available Vehicles" list, but only one when i click "New Vehicle" in a depot?
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00:35:41 <planetmaker> caracal: because they're available for a different track / road type?
00:35:53 <planetmaker> a depot is always associated with one type only
00:36:46 <caracal> well, from the road vehicles list i select Available and see four types of road vehicle, but when i build a depot i see only one
00:37:09 <caracal> not sure how to "activate" the others, since there's only one road type and one depot type that i know of
00:37:19 <planetmaker> trams?
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00:43:16 <caracal> two kinds of tram and one "streetcar"
00:43:56 <caracal> appear in the "available road vehicles" list, but not available for building at a depot
00:44:09 <caracal> only the ford model t bus
00:46:25 <caracal> do i need to lay track for those or something?
00:52:56 <caracal> bah, and i just satisfied the requirements of a subsidy, but didn't get it ... cheat!
00:56:49 <caracal> huh, and a new tram type just appeared, and is now in the avail list, but i still can't buy them
00:57:09 <caracal> clearly there's something about trams i don't understand
01:13:20 <caracal> ahhhh ... it's a submenu off the road-building button
01:20:49 <caracal> well that works much better <g>
01:24:40 <lugo> iirc, subsidies work in one direction only, or at least the establishment of it
01:25:40 <lugo> so if town a to town b is subsidised you need to make sure that your vehicle starts in town a, in order to instantly get the subidy
01:28:23 <caracal> this was livestock from a farm to a food processing plant
01:28:36 <caracal> which can go in only one direction anyway
01:28:53 <caracal> built the line, delivered several loads, then the subsidy expired
01:29:03 <caracal> i call bug <grin>
01:29:18 <lugo> heh :)
01:33:24 <caracal> i thought i'd seen a subsidy bug earlier, with passengers, but i realized i had inserted an intermediate stop between the source and destination, so even though passengers were being delivered, they weren't passengers from the correct origin city
01:33:41 <caracal> but this is a straight two-station line, hard to see how that could get messed up
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04:24:28 <caracal> "autorenew failed (money limit)" ... wha?! i have more than enough money
04:24:55 <caracal> maybe not enough to renew all vehicles of that type at the same time, but that's not what i'm trying (well, wanting) to do
04:26:30 <caracal> what i've seen in the past is that it replaces a vehicle whenever it hits a depot ... and i certainly have more than enough for *that*
04:26:43 <caracal> but i'm getting this endless stream of the above messages
04:26:59 <caracal> that seems a bit cross-eyed to me
04:29:03 <caracal> and another thing ... ;) i have a truck station in a growing city, and every other month or so i get a message saying "now accepts goods", followed by "no longer accepts goods" ... back and forth, over and over
04:29:20 <caracal> any way i can affect that process aside from just growing the city faster?
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05:34:40 <planetmaker> caracal: yes, trams are not roads, thus have their own depot
05:34:58 <caracal> i eventually discovered that
05:35:03 <planetmaker> and no, there's no way to change these messages except turning this type of messages
05:35:21 <caracal> actually, you can just stop replacing vehicles until you have more money
05:35:32 <planetmaker> and I discovered that 3h of sleep are not enough, good morning nevertheless ;-)
05:35:33 <caracal> oh, you mean the accepting goods messages
05:35:48 <planetmaker> I meant both ;-)
05:36:00 <planetmaker> two separate statements with no connection
05:36:50 <caracal> well, the money limit messages (1) are indeed due to not having enough to replace the entire fleet at once, even though that's not what it actually does, and (2) can be stopped by stopping the replacement, or getting more money
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06:04:34 <Terkhen> good morning
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11:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i really have no clue what xkcd is saying...
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11:15:48 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause:
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11:17:36 <lugo> Eddi|zuHause, bet you know it, but:
11:18:11 <lugo> he ceased updating :/
11:18:19 <lugo> *they
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11:27:36 <Sacro> make isntall
11:27:45 <Sacro> hmm
11:27:48 <Sacro> this isn't a terminal
11:30:40 <Prof_Frink> Yes it is.
11:32:10 <peter1138> that's a _woody_ word
11:32:21 <__ln__> gorn
11:32:46 <peter1138> what's gorn dear?
11:33:05 <__ln__> a word with woody quality
11:33:25 <peter1138> sausage
11:33:32 <__ln__> eww
11:35:07 <peter1138> Caribou!
11:35:14 <__ln__> where?!
11:35:31 <peter1138> we're mangling this :S
11:37:03 <__ln__> well i wasn't expecting the kind of spanish inquisition
11:37:58 <MNIM> nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
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11:45:40 <andythenorth> I was expecting that
11:45:55 <MNIM> suuuuuure
11:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the only english word that i _really_ hate is the word "I" (being capitalised"
11:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> s/"$/)/
11:54:47 <Ammler> s/i/I/
11:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's so silly, it a) goes against all sane spelling rules, and b) you can't emphasise it by capitalising it
11:57:45 <Terkhen> ^
11:57:51 * Terkhen hates it too
11:59:31 <MNIM> not to mention that it kindof symbolizes a bad kind of egotism
12:01:19 <Terkhen> I, you
12:01:37 <Terkhen> We Should Capitalize All Words To Avoid That
12:02:29 * Prof_Frink hits Terkhen with a germanhammer
12:02:38 <Terkhen> what does that do?
12:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> when making forum posts i often have to correct capitalisation afterwards...
12:04:11 <MNIM> Terkhen: exactly that. German is a silly language, requiring all Nouns to be capitalized
12:04:25 <Terkhen> oh, really? I did not know that
12:04:28 <Terkhen> sounds annoying :)
12:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally great
12:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> improves reading flow significantly
12:05:19 <Terkhen> hmmm... annoying for writing :P
12:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> its widespread use goes back to Martin Luther, who used it it his bible translation
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12:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (which was basically the first really widespread book)
12:09:53 <MNIM> now you know why all writers hate lutherans :P
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12:10:04 <MNIM> fucking capitalization
12:11:07 <Ammler> hmm, it is good, you can't captialize I
12:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Capitalising all Nouns is a great Way to introduce Structure into a Sentence.
12:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Especially with the way that Germans like to construct very long Sentences.
12:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> bäh, missed one ;)
12:13:44 <Terkhen> I guess it requires getting used to it, those sentences just confuse me :P
12:13:52 <MNIM> Seee
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12:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, every change of style needs getting used to
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12:50:47 <peter1138> yeah, it's illogical :p
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15:17:53 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: "Aber wenn dir der "Diese HTML-Seiten als .zip runterladen" Link auf der Hauptseite nicht ausreicht" <- did i miss something?
15:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: second paragraph on this page:
15:19:29 <frosch123> oh, you mean on the old wiki
15:19:58 <frosch123> but, wasn't the point of the question that there is no such thing on the new one?
15:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, he said he liked the old one better.
15:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but a similar link on the new wiki would probably be a good idea
15:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there's a way to export a wiki like this.
15:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean other than "wget -m"
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15:50:42 <frosch123> orudge:
15:50:50 <frosch123> or was he on vacation or something?
15:56:29 <Sacro> orudge is in australia
15:57:13 <frosch123> ah, i read a book these days, which is not about australia
15:58:10 <frosch123> ("the last continent")
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16:50:47 <andythenorth> hmm
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16:50:53 <andythenorth> FIRS supplies mechanic :P
16:51:22 <andythenorth> 'on average, over enough months it will be ok' just doesn't work for humans
16:52:01 <andythenorth> situations akin to law of large numbers are just not intuitive
16:52:23 <supermop_plus> hm?
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16:52:25 <andythenorth> people would rather have a more complicated system, with much more complex rules and the need to do actual maths
16:52:35 <supermop_plus> sounds ok
16:52:39 <andythenorth> thereby doing micro-management to avoid micro-management
16:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it should be progressive (supply demand per month will increase with every production increase), and storage for up to 12 months
16:53:10 * Terkhen does not understand
16:53:15 * andythenorth considers reintroducing stockpiling
16:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> stockpiling only for supplies, not any other cargos
16:53:43 <supermop_plus> but then i dont get to have tiny little trucks
16:53:49 <andythenorth> it's basically a choice of which kind of player request I want more of:
16:54:21 <andythenorth> (1) please disable stockpiling, stockpiling SUCKS, it breaks my networks, I would use your set if it didn't have stockpiling
16:54:54 <andythenorth> (2) please introduce stockpiling, this absence of stockpiling SUCKS, it makes no sense to me, I would use your set if it had stockpiling
16:55:18 * Terkhen belongs to (1), although I wouldn't mind stockpiling for supplies
16:55:21 <andythenorth> suggests that supplies are just a flawed concept
16:55:24 <andythenorth> good things are easy
16:55:33 * andythenorth considers removing supplies
16:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> supplies are a great concept
16:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes the essence of the set
16:56:00 <Terkhen> ^
16:56:06 <supermop_plus> yeah, so far the best way to model an idea
16:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> without supplies, one may as well just play with the default set
16:56:23 <andythenorth> but you get the prettier graphics :P
16:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you have the default graphics for all the essential industries anyway...
16:57:36 <supermop_plus> ok, i was on the phone: but here is why i like supplies:
16:58:25 <supermop_plus> the type of industries called 'primary' in the game have a sort of weird way of operation,
16:59:55 <supermop_plus> where production ramps up continuously to very large amounts based solely on how often/well some company shows up at their door to pick stuff up
17:00:55 <supermop_plus> not really in response to any demand in the regional economy, or due to any factors about ease or difficulty of operating the farm/mine etc
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17:02:31 <supermop_plus> it would be more interesting if different industries could fluctuate based on how economical it is to operate them, or based on their location in the region
17:03:02 <supermop_plus> but these are too complicated to model in a fun way in the game (thusfar)
17:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you're missing a part here: good raw material sources are very often in very inaccessible places (e.g. mountains)
17:04:08 <supermop_plus> supplies stand in for the various ssituations needed to support a high level of productivity,
17:05:35 <supermop_plus> indeed, eddi, so those good supplies are left un-tapped in early industrial societies, but become more lucrative as the industrial infrastructure to support their use grows, and convenient supplies fall off.
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17:06:27 <andythenorth> the game isn't very good at modelling that kind of detail in gameplay though :)
17:06:33 <andythenorth> it kind of gets lost
17:06:38 <supermop_plus> a system that can deliver supplies regularly stand in for all of the other industrial concerns we don't model
17:07:25 <supermop_plus> ie, how is this factory/mine/whatever powered, how do its workers get there, etc
17:07:37 <andythenorth> hmm
17:07:38 <andythenorth> :)
17:07:51 <andythenorth> "I know that most people hate the stockpiling feature, maybe it can even done without it, but it would ensure that the industry have to be served with supplies on a regular base, not just used as dump."
17:07:57 <andythenorth> ^ how is this different to current ?
17:08:24 <andythenorth> same for this "to reach the highest value you might have to deliver the right amount just on time (kind of a quest once you got the complete chain running)"
17:08:46 <supermop_plus> hmm, same as now but no payment beyond the first crate per month? sounds worse than stockpiling
17:08:54 <Terkhen> stockpile up to X supplies and consume Y every month, Y and X are based on current production
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17:10:21 <andythenorth> stockpiling was tried :(
17:10:32 <andythenorth> and widely disliked :|
17:10:41 <andythenorth> brr
17:10:44 <Terkhen> for supplies?
17:10:45 * andythenorth will do something else
17:10:47 <andythenorth> yes
17:12:28 <Terkhen> oh, that should have been before I tried FIRS
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17:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly convinced that stockpiles for supplies are the right solution
17:18:59 <andythenorth> hmm
17:19:06 <andythenorth> why go against empiricism?
17:19:17 <andythenorth> they may be theoretically correct, but they're tested and proven wrong
17:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what i found annoying is that i can't get any statistics of how well i supplied an industry with supplies over the past ~12 months
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17:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and while there: secondary industrie shouldn't tell you how much primary cargo they currently store (that's 0 most of the time), but how much was delivered this/last month accumulated
17:27:10 <supermop_plus> yeah, I would like that information available
17:27:22 <andythenorth> patchy patchy
17:30:21 <supermop_plus> in british english, is a colliery just another word for coal mine? or is it a specific type of coal mine?
17:31:08 <andythenorth> about the same I'd say
17:31:19 <andythenorth> a coal mine can be a drift or open pit though
17:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard that word
17:31:32 <andythenorth> a colliery is a deep mine with usually two vertical shafts
17:31:36 * andythenorth -> bbl
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17:33:29 <supermop_plus> ive only ever heard it used in england
17:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in german the word "Zeche" might be used to describe a (coal) mine
17:36:13 <frosch123> though the plural of it can also be used as verb
17:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "Zeche" may also mean a bill (e.g. in a restaurant)
17:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Zeche prellen" means leaving without paying
17:40:04 <supermop_plus> ha
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17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22613 /trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt:
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
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17:47:20 <lukaszpl> hello. is that any chance to play ottd on applce mac?
17:48:47 *** lukaszpl has quit IRC
17:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not
17:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> especially not for impatient people
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17:56:36 * DanMacK leaves the shadows and enters the light
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17:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> waah, it's so bright
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18:00:13 <andythenorth> ah ha
18:00:18 <andythenorth> DanMacK is revealed
18:00:27 <Wolf01> hello
18:00:27 * andythenorth wonders what projects DanMacK has been doing?
18:00:33 <andythenorth> websites about inter-urbans?
18:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Gandalf!"
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18:04:10 <DanMacK> Yeah... still digging for that
18:04:21 <DanMacK> Distracted by records online
18:04:31 <andythenorth> how is your spriting mojo? I feared for it
18:06:54 <DanMacK> trying to find it...
18:07:48 <DanMacK> I';ve got some Canset stuff to finish, other stuff to finish... Finnish stuff to finish...
18:08:32 <andythenorth> do you have any kind of todo list or tickets?
18:08:36 <andythenorth> or do you keep it in your head?
18:10:06 <DanMacK> bit of both
18:10:21 <DanMacK> I've got a todo list for the Canset
18:12:48 <andythenorth> I find it really unhelpful keeping stuff in my head
18:12:53 <andythenorth> it's like mental freight
18:12:59 <andythenorth> stops me getting anything done
18:13:26 <DanMacK> exactly
18:17:07 <DanMacK> I've gone through lulls before, it's nothing new
18:17:43 <DanMacK> When you've been doing this for 8 and a half years, you need a break :P
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18:30:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's probably why V suggested the increased monthly need for supplies for industries. Which might mean a stockpile... might work for supplies if it doesn't change acceptance
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18:31:15 <planetmaker> hm... scrolling down helps to not answer totally out of context :-P
18:32:36 <andythenorth> heh
18:32:43 <andythenorth> the correct answer is to remove them
18:32:49 <andythenorth> but that won't be popular
18:33:04 <supermop> what if
18:33:17 <supermop> instead of a traditional stockpile
18:33:26 <supermop> suplies went bad
18:33:44 <supermop> as a way to deter dropping off 10 years worth at once
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18:37:41 <supermop> so you can drop off as many as you want, but they will have a shelf life, and the industry only benefits from those supplies that it can process before they spoil
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18:43:29 <andythenorth> could be done by reducing the stockpile, but not using them for increased production
18:43:42 <andythenorth> but it would be very hard to explain + possibly hard to code (might be easy)
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18:55:40 <andythenorth> maybe I remove them for 0.7.0 and play test
18:56:59 <andythenorth> or
18:57:03 <andythenorth> canset style
18:57:09 <andythenorth> unlimited stockpile
18:57:21 <planetmaker> if stockpile: unlimited
18:57:32 <andythenorth> industry consumes at n per month - related to production
18:58:15 <andythenorth> random monthly chance that all stockpiled supplies were 'lost' :P
18:58:27 <andythenorth> still breaks with YACD though
18:58:35 <Rubidium> unlimited stockpiles don't exist
18:58:41 <andythenorth> 65k or so
18:58:59 <andythenorth> so what happens if it overflows?
18:59:02 <Terkhen> the bugged power plant in opengfx+ industries had 65k, yes
18:59:06 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it doesn't
18:59:09 <andythenorth> sign overflow? or just limited
18:59:12 <Terkhen> it stops accepting
18:59:15 <Rubidium> the industry just doesn't accept it
18:59:17 <andythenorth> so I wouldn't need to write acceptance code myself
18:59:28 <andythenorth> does tile acceptance remain?
18:59:41 <andythenorth> you get paid?
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18:59:55 <Rubidium> although if you're devious, you use the 64 bytes of the industry to store the stockpile
18:59:58 <Rubidium> @calc 2**64
18:59:58 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 18446744073709551616
19:00:12 <Rubidium> @calc 2**(64*8)
19:00:12 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 13407807929942597099574024998205846127479365820592393377723561443721764030073546976801874298166903427690031858186486050853753882811946569946433649006084096
19:00:25 <andythenorth> I'd probably use persistent storage for it - it's not 'cargo waiting to be processed'
19:00:49 <andythenorth> I'd like to be able to turn that string off :P
19:00:52 <Rubidium> that looks like a reasonable approximation for unlimited in the scope of OpenTTD cargo
19:01:12 <andythenorth> no, it's not enough
19:01:15 <andythenorth> I demand a patch :P
19:01:33 <andythenorth> hmm
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19:01:47 <andythenorth> industry then uses the cargo at what rate?
19:01:53 <andythenorth> depends on output?
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19:02:17 <Alberth> 1%
19:02:25 <andythenorth> hmm
19:03:10 * andythenorth has no good suggestions
19:03:15 <andythenorth> makes it harder to code :P
19:03:19 <andythenorth> someone write a spec?
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19:04:22 <Alberth> a spec
19:04:26 <andythenorth> thanks
19:04:28 <andythenorth> I'll code that
19:04:38 <Alberth> yw
19:05:17 <Alberth> what's wrong with stockpiling upto eg 64K, and throwing away everything more than that?
19:05:21 <andythenorth> nothing
19:05:30 <andythenorth> but what to do with the stockpile?
19:05:44 <andythenorth> consumption should be related to production
19:05:45 <Alberth> use it at the current rate
19:05:50 <andythenorth> 1t per month?
19:06:54 <andythenorth> hmm
19:07:04 <andythenorth> if starting output is (for argument) 1
19:07:11 <andythenorth> and industry output is currently 4
19:07:11 <Alberth> in my view, the problem is that people need to do precise timing of small amounts, right? a stockpile fixes that problem
19:07:40 * Alberth has no experience with supplies at all
19:08:04 * andythenorth has brain-boggle
19:08:16 <andythenorth> consumption of supplies needs to be related to current output
19:08:27 <andythenorth> and production increase chance needs to be related to amount delivered
19:08:52 <andythenorth> so I deliver 500t, to an industry at level 1 production, I get instant upgrade to maximum production?
19:09:06 <andythenorth> or just to next level
19:09:07 <andythenorth> ?
19:09:27 <andythenorth> it makes no sense to me so far
19:09:41 <Alberth> you have several production levels?
19:09:53 <andythenorth> yes, driven by the production multiplier
19:09:56 <andythenorth> maybe when FIRS is nml someone else will fix it
19:10:37 <andythenorth> I regret the whole idea :P
19:11:16 <andythenorth> not FIRS
19:11:20 <andythenorth> just supplies
19:12:43 <andythenorth> they were invented for the wrong reason
19:13:03 <andythenorth> to give a purpose to a small HEQS vehicle which hasn't actually been included in HEQS :P
19:13:20 <andythenorth>
19:13:27 <Alberth> that sounds a bit useless indeed :)
19:13:49 <Terkhen> even if they were created for the wrong reason, they are still fun :)
19:13:56 <Alberth> but we need rivers for that vehicle :p
19:14:28 <Alberth> what is wrong with assuming they got delivered when you have a stockpile of it?
19:15:27 <Alberth> hmm, you can make the 64K or the time it lasts, configurable.
19:15:36 <andythenorth> you have to choose a rate to consume it
19:15:47 <andythenorth> I don't know how to make that decision :)
19:15:59 <andythenorth> you have to choose the affect it has on production
19:16:07 <andythenorth> I don't know how to make that decision either
19:16:10 <Alberth> 1t for each tonne produced?
19:16:14 <andythenorth> but those are the two key problems
19:17:18 <andythenorth> and for each 1t consumed, what is the chance of production increase?
19:18:03 <Alberth> hmm, this is getting complicated indeed
19:18:04 <andythenorth> or to put it another way
19:18:10 <andythenorth> the industry is producing 128t coal
19:18:10 <Alberth> Terkhen: so why is it fun?
19:18:16 <andythenorth> I have 500t stockpiled
19:18:30 <andythenorth> should I (a) use 128t supplies for a fixed chance of increase
19:18:40 <andythenorth> or (b) use 500t for an enhanced chance of increase
19:18:43 <andythenorth> or (c) go north
19:18:55 * Alberth votes (a)
19:19:09 <Terkhen> creating a network that gives a small amount of supplies to each primary is fun, I'm not sure if the same would hold with increased supply requirements
19:19:24 <blup> idk what you all are talking about but I'd go for [c] :P
19:19:34 <Terkhen> and those are huge amounts of supplies
19:19:54 <Alberth> blup: the concept of supplies in FIRS, and what to do with them
19:19:56 <andythenorth> (a) contravenes the player request for 'more supplies delivered => more chance of increase'
19:20:15 * Terkhen has an overcomplicated scheme in mind
19:20:18 <andythenorth> (b) contravenes player request for 'please provide a stockpile so I can deliver less often'
19:20:25 <andythenorth> (c) is easiest
19:20:51 <andythenorth> at least with (c) I get the same class of feature requests pikka gets
19:21:01 <Terkhen> I have no clue of what (c) is
19:21:05 <andythenorth> do nothing
19:21:19 <Alberth> and stock-piling kills the fun described by Terkhen
19:21:31 <blup> that's somewhat the same thing as ECS vectors ?
19:22:08 <Alberth> blup: FIRS is another industry set, yes
19:22:15 <blup> kk
19:22:26 <Alberth> however, it does not stockpile, nor are there acceptance limits
19:22:47 <Alberth> which makes it a whole lot more fun to play imho
19:22:53 <Terkhen> I'd say (c) for now :P
19:24:03 <andythenorth> it's looking that way
19:24:04 <Alberth> the only alternative would be to make it configurable
19:24:10 <andythenorth> that would suck
19:24:25 <andythenorth> it means duplicating the production code at least once
19:24:29 <Alberth> quite likely
19:24:35 <frosch123> night
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19:24:42 <andythenorth> increases testing workload by power of 2 for each parameter option
19:24:56 <andythenorth> makes game balance almost impossibly complex
19:25:08 <andythenorth> but ecs does it :)
19:25:43 <Alberth> people cannot complain about stockpiling anymore <-- would be the major benefit, I think
19:26:05 <Alberth> but I don't know whether it is worth the mess
19:26:30 <Alberth> looking for an alternative might be time spent better
19:27:06 <andythenorth> removing it is second least amount of work
19:27:21 <andythenorth> and feature requests can be handled with "it was tried and didn't work"
19:27:25 <Alberth> ecs is not moving so rapidly, which eases the load
19:28:18 <Alberth> how would it change compared to not caring about supplies, like I do ?
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19:29:01 <Alberth> ie leave them in, but consider them deprecaeted
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19:34:58 <andythenorth> removing them would have lots of benefits
19:35:32 * DanMacK never really used them TBH
19:35:39 <DanMacK> I tried
19:35:46 <andythenorth> would free up two cargo slots
19:37:26 <andythenorth> and remove four industries
19:37:35 <andythenorth> so would make for easier gameplay
19:40:05 <andythenorth> I can also remove lots of strings
19:40:13 <andythenorth> and remove the need for instructions
19:40:22 <andythenorth> primary cargo production would be same as default game
19:40:37 <andythenorth> translation would be simplified
19:42:28 <andythenorth> hmm
19:42:41 <andythenorth> could the supplies be moved to a separate vector grf?
19:43:18 <Terkhen> probably
19:43:39 <Terkhen> that extra grf would need to redefine industry tiles though
19:43:49 <andythenorth> that's possible I think
19:44:00 <Terkhen> yes, just tiresome :P
19:44:11 <andythenorth> that way players could code their own supplies behaviour
19:44:14 <andythenorth> to suit their taste
19:46:05 <Terkhen> makes sense, but I feel that then FIRS loses part of what makes it unique
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19:47:22 <andythenorth> hmm
19:47:50 <JVassie> mmh
19:47:55 <andythenorth> mhm
19:48:00 <JVassie> hmh
19:48:34 <andythenorth> reminds me of a duck-shoot game (where ducks go off one side of screen and reappear on other)
19:48:39 <JVassie> lol
19:48:44 <andythenorth> ach
19:48:45 <JVassie> reminds me of binary
19:55:14 <andythenorth> maybe beer will help the supplies question
19:55:31 <Chris_Booth> mmm beer!
19:55:52 <Chris_Booth> not replyed to a beer highlight in ages lol
19:56:05 <Chris_Booth> sorry that was a very bad off topic
19:56:58 <JVassie> mmm
19:57:10 <JVassie> lol
19:57:12 <supermop> replace supplies cargoes with beer cargo?
19:57:14 <JVassie> 51 windows updates to install
19:57:24 <supermop> deliver beer each month to reduce production?
19:58:24 <andythenorth> that is one of the funnier suggestions :)
19:58:37 <andythenorth> I can't figure it out
19:58:42 <SmatZ> beer!
19:59:32 <Chris_Booth> to late I wont the Beer war here
19:59:36 <andythenorth> so it needs storage stockpile + refusal of acceptance + variable consumption according to production
19:59:40 <andythenorth> + failure to deliver on time = production drops
19:59:43 <SmatZ> :)
19:59:52 <andythenorth> I can't see how all that fits together
20:00:16 * JVassie is having a love affair with Calvin Harriw
20:00:18 <JVassie> true story
20:00:22 <JVassie> *harris
20:00:28 <andythenorth> storage => no need to deliver on time
20:00:49 <andythenorth> acceptance refusal => punishment for over-delivering
20:01:02 <andythenorth> production drop => punishment for not delivering on time
20:01:19 <andythenorth> + variable consumption by production => varying demand
20:01:30 <andythenorth> these don't seem to fit together somehow
20:01:47 <andythenorth> so to put it into plain english for instructions
20:02:33 *** JVassie has quit IRC
20:04:04 <andythenorth> "to increase production at FIRS primaries, deliver the required amount of cargo every month. If you miss a month, but you over-delivered in previous months, the industry will use supplies from the stockpile. But if you over-deliver too much the supplies won't be accepted. If you fail to provide supplies, production will fall. The amount of supplies required depends on current production. Current production depe
20:04:04 <andythenorth> the amount of supplies delivered."
20:04:10 <andythenorth> so what do supplies do
20:04:11 <andythenorth> ?
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20:06:42 * andythenorth will do something more useful
20:06:46 <andythenorth> good night
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20:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andy is ever so impatient...
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21:24:50 <Terkhen> good night
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21:35:05 <evo> hey
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22:29:45 <Wolf01> 'night
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