IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-06-27
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00:08:40 <Verbatim> How's it going?
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04:53:31 <TruePika> Why is it that, when I copied my config file from Linux to Windows, that I get all sorts of NewGRF errors?
04:53:54 <TruePika> They are caused by the difference between '/' and '\'
04:54:04 <TruePika> If I change them to '\', no errors
04:54:29 <TruePika> However, Windows accepts '/' in URIs
04:54:53 <TruePika> OTTD seems not to like '/' in the Windows config...
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06:51:51 <Terkhen> good morning
06:54:39 <peter1138> hi
06:57:57 <Terkhen> hi peter1138
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07:24:31 <dihedral> does anybody know if there is a simple way to install imagemagick on a SLES server?
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07:40:28 <peter1138> apt-get install imagemagick ;D
07:42:29 <dihedral> i wish :-P
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08:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> zypper in imagemagick?
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10:38:56 <peter1138> me o'clock!
10:39:43 <Ammler> finally :-)
10:46:13 <Sacro> haha
10:59:44 <fjb> Not here.
11:00:48 <Sacro> so warrrrm
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13:41:49 <MNIM> hmmmmhm
13:42:08 <MNIM> is there a way to make vehicles available again after they've expired?
13:42:46 <Terkhen> enable "vehicles never expire" and write "resetengines" on the console
13:44:07 <MNIM> yeah, I got the vehicles never expire option, but I activated it too late, not realizing that those things are save-specific
13:44:40 <MNIM> oh jay, that did it
13:44:41 <MNIM> thanks
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13:49:28 <MNIM> hmmmmh
13:49:39 <MNIM> this probably helps with solving some of that congestion I had
13:50:48 <MNIM> I split up a group of stopping trains which did a clockwise round line and gave the second half orders to go anti-clockwise
13:50:54 <MNIM> now to do the same with the intercities
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14:21:50 <MNIM> hmmmmh. would a DB270 lock be a viable replacement for a caledonian railway 439 pulling a five tile long train to transfer it onto longer trains at mining hub stations?
14:22:14 <MNIM> while taking into account that they have to pull it over some slopes
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15:34:02 <MNIM> hmmhhh
15:34:11 <andythenorth> mmm
15:34:17 <MNIM> anybody can remind me where 'trains can reverse at station is under?
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15:42:23 <Vikthor> MNIM: I think difficulty settings
15:43:01 <MNIM> oh
15:43:12 <MNIM> well that would explain why I couldn't find it
15:44:25 <Ammler> MNIM: rcon list_settings reverse
15:44:38 <Ammler> or without rcon
15:44:45 <Vikthor> yes, this setting is kind of tricky, it's heritage from original TTD
15:45:27 <Ammler> or grep the cfg
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15:56:28 <andythenorth> after we've added realistic prices, can we fix some more realism related things?
15:57:11 <andythenorth> for example I've noticed that some trains are too short
15:57:22 <andythenorth> e.g. an SD40-2 is only about 25px long in game
15:57:31 <andythenorth> whereas wikipedia says it's "68 ft 10 in (20.98 m) over the coupler pulling faces"
15:57:52 <glx> haha
15:57:58 <andythenorth> so it's about 68 feet and 9 and 3/4 inches too short
15:58:00 <glx> realism in openttd
15:58:05 <andythenorth> (depending on your screen size)
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16:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: have you used the more zoom levels yet? :p
16:06:51 <andythenorth> then it no longer fits on my screen :(
16:06:56 <andythenorth> my screen is unrealistic
16:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this 32bpp blender tutorial on the wiki totally does not work in blender 2.5
16:07:08 <andythenorth> it appears to just be a 2D depiction of things
16:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and aside of that, it seems to be written by somebody who has absolutely no clue
16:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> both "import Blender" and "from Blender import *"
16:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, you don't pay real money for it either
16:08:41 <andythenorth> my screen?
16:08:48 <andythenorth> it certainly appeared to cost money
16:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the SD40-2
16:08:54 <andythenorth> maybe it's all just appearances
16:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (whatever that is)
16:08:59 <andythenorth> maybe the world is just illusion
16:09:13 * andythenorth wants his money back
16:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, money is an illusion
16:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> someone just made it up
16:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (typically that someone is called "central bank" or somesuch)
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16:31:38 <MNIM> money is a representation of services and goods in an abstract form, qualified in numbers
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16:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they make you believe, but it is really not
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16:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not since the 1950's, and certainly not since the 1990's
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16:43:29 <MNIM> well, if you are referring to the use of 'imaginary' money at stock exchanges, it's far older than the 1950s
16:43:55 <MNIM> in fact, Id refer you to the very first stock crash, which, naturally, happened in the netherlands
16:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 1950's is when the gold standard was given up
16:44:51 <MNIM>
16:45:03 <MNIM> well, that doesn't really count
16:45:29 <MNIM> the only thing that changed was that money became independent of the value of something else
16:45:44 <MNIM> and besides that, the gold standard isn't that old
16:46:17 <MNIM> the 'standards' were all, at their time, the most valuable stuff available.
16:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, before the gold standard, money was worth the material value of the coin
16:46:48 <MNIM> what was said value based on? hmmh?
16:47:00 <MNIM> it's all recursive, that's the funny thing about money
16:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the gold standard meant: i won't give you 1000 Mark worth of gold, but i will give you this paper that says you could get 1000 Mark worth of gold"
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16:47:58 <glx> it weights a lot less when you need 1000000 ;)
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16:50:17 <MNIM> well, figure this: back during the tulip mania, when you wanted to buy a nice luxury home, you wouldn't give the seller a box full of gold coins, you'd give hima a tulip bulb
16:50:48 <MNIM> during that time, anything that was worth a lot and was easy to carry was used as 'money'
16:51:10 <MNIM> gold, spices, tulips, they've all been used as monetary means
16:51:43 <MNIM> yet none of them actually are worth the value they represent
16:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but nowadays it isn't.
16:52:02 <MNIM> not in most civil countries, yeah
16:52:56 <andythenorth> omg
16:53:03 <andythenorth> don't mention that money is based on illusion
16:53:08 <andythenorth> that makes the whole thing fall down :
16:53:12 <andythenorth> then where would we be?
16:53:21 <andythenorth> *not* in the shop buying stuff, that's for certain
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17:17:42 <peter1138> yay, tulipmania
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17:38:32 <Wolf01> hello
17:43:38 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22610 /trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt:
17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 4 changes by Zuu
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17:51:37 <Dozzer> I installed GRF for tramways, but I can't build tramway
17:51:38 <Dozzer> Why?
17:52:17 <TWerkhoven> are there any trams available?
17:52:48 <Dozzer> I think yes...
17:53:03 <Dozzer> The scenario is in 2012
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17:53:45 <Zuu> If you go to the NewGRF window (in your game, not the menu), do you have your tram NewGRF visible in the list?
17:53:46 <Rubidium> you don't need a tramway newgrf to get trams, you need trams to get tramways
17:54:08 <Dozzer> Yes, it's visible
17:54:16 <Dozzer> With a green square in left of its name
17:54:43 <Dozzer> I installed "Generic Tram Set"
17:54:55 <Zuu> That's a tram set.
17:55:14 <Zuu> If you click and hold your button on the button to build road (top of screen)
17:55:26 <Zuu> Do you get a menu where you can select tram way?
17:55:32 <Dozzer> No...
17:56:50 <Zuu> Then I'm out of ideas without having access to your (save-)game.
17:56:52 <TWerkhoven> you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
17:56:52 <Rubidium> please upload the savegame; this guessing what's wrong game doesn't seem to be fruitful
17:57:28 <Dozzer> Give me a site to upload
17:57:31 <Dozzer> pl0x
17:57:38 <Dozzer> <TWerkhoven> you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
17:57:42 <Dozzer> Look, I`m not so stupid
17:58:05 <Dozzer> In my old games with temperate climate I constructed
17:58:21 <Dozzer> But it's possible to be this because of toyland climate?
18:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> very likely
18:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> most sets do not offer vehicles for toyland
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18:21:29 <Wolf01> bah... my provider is retarded
18:22:12 <Wolf01> I asked if was possible to reduce the lag, they raised the speed, now I have more lag and less download speed (24kbps)
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19:08:20 <MNIM> NOOOOOooo
19:08:28 <MNIM> I got attacked by UFOs! D:
19:18:21 <Dozzer> How can I build raw materials industries?
19:19:44 <Dozzer> :s
19:24:03 <Hirundo> there's a setting for that
19:25:14 <MNIM> Advanced settings --> economy --> industries --> manual primary industry...
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19:31:14 <MNIM> owww
19:31:19 * MNIM baps self
19:31:26 <MNIM> do more research!
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19:32:25 <MNIM> so I just upgraded half of my network to electric
19:33:04 <MNIM> and then I realised there's really no loc that'll provide any advantage of my jesus-christ-knows-how-old 99kmh steam engines
19:33:16 <MNIM> and it's already 1953!
19:33:31 <MNIM> *advantage over my...
19:37:12 <MNIM> I bought those SBB A3/5-s from 1900 and later, and yet there's still no really satisfactory euro e-loc
19:40:30 <MNIM> The NS1000 comes close, but they're not really fast, neither cheaper than a steam loc (which is odd, considering e-locs need a lot less laborious manhours!
19:40:34 <MNIM> )
19:42:02 <andythenorth> he
19:42:05 <andythenorth> weather would be lame
19:42:08 <andythenorth> but clouds...
19:42:09 <andythenorth>
19:42:10 <andythenorth> nice
19:43:01 <MNIM> looks a bit out of place combined with the old-school graphics of the rest of the game, but yeah, random clouds would be neat
19:43:12 <Dozzer> How can I remove a newGRF?
19:43:15 <MNIM> also, those are huge mountains! is that a patch?
19:43:21 <Dozzer> How can I remove a newGRF?
19:43:24 <MNIM> during a game?
19:43:27 <Dozzer> Yes
19:43:32 <Dozzer> No exactly
19:43:41 <MNIM> you can't, in newer versions of ottd
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19:43:46 <Dozzer> During making a scenario
19:44:07 <MNIM> there's no real difference between a scenario and a running game for ottd
19:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> scenario is the same as a game
19:44:38 <MNIM> in fact, rename a .sav into .scn, put it in the correct folder and you are perfectly able to open it in scedit
19:45:08 <MNIM> there is one way, but I am so not responsible for any bugs that might occur!
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19:46:55 <MNIM> (adding/removing newgrfs in-game has been disabled in newer versions because it's prone to cause bugs, which are then blamed on the ottd devs, which is annoying for them to say the least)
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19:57:10 <Terkhen> Dozzer: see
19:57:33 <Terkhen> the last post includes links to a few examples of what might happen if you change NewGRFs anyways
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21:15:16 <Dozzer> When I see the list of my trains
21:15:27 <Dozzer> What are those symbols under train's number?
21:17:59 <Twerkhoven[L]> wether or not ir makes a profit
21:19:06 <Dozzer> I see a blue bar
21:19:12 <Dozzer> And a yellow...ball
21:19:19 <Dozzer> With a green "+"
21:19:30 <Twerkhoven[L]> diagonal bar? you are using opengfx then right?
21:19:40 <Twerkhoven[L]> diagonal blue bar == engine < 1year old
21:20:44 <Twerkhoven[L]> <-- full explanation of that particular window
21:34:31 <Dozzer> thx
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21:35:06 * andythenorth -> bed
21:35:09 <andythenorth> good night
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21:38:00 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:01:46 <Terkhen> good night
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22:31:22 <Dozzer> Why when I destroy something, it doesn't make green?
22:31:27 <Dozzer> A square...
22:31:30 <Dozzer> It remains brown
22:31:31 <Dozzer> :|
22:31:54 <Twerkhoven[L]> how long did ya wait?
22:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's grass. needs time to grow
22:34:23 <Yexo> it'll only turn green when the game is unpaused
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22:39:42 <Dozzer> Yexo
22:39:45 <Dozzer> The problem is
22:39:50 <Dozzer> That it isn't in pause mode
22:40:12 <Dozzer> And also, 3 years have passed
22:40:20 <Yexo> please create a savegame and upload it
22:42:50 * MNIM groans
22:42:53 <MNIM> motherfucker.
22:43:22 <MNIM> perhaps I should not be trying to read info on newgrfs while Ive got a few beers headbutting my brain
22:46:53 <Yexo> try writing newgrfs when you had a beer too many :p
22:47:39 <MNIM> well, it's not so much "too many" but "too fast"
22:47:52 <MNIM> also, Im a lousy coder, with or without beers >.<
22:47:53 <Yexo> same effect :)
22:48:42 <MNIM> well, that is, I have far too little patience and a too smal attention span to code anything from the ground up.
22:50:19 <MNIM> Bah, you know somewhere where I can get a TTBRS that gives TTRS road surface graphics when used with TTRS?
22:50:34 <MNIM> (or vice verca)
22:50:44 <Yexo> no idea if such a grf exists
22:51:09 <MNIM> well, somebody said that there (probably) is, yet I can't find it
22:51:11 <Twerkhoven[L]> tubular bridges?
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22:52:29 <MNIM> nope, the whole total bridge replacement set
22:52:58 <MNIM> like so
22:52:59 <MNIM>
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23:07:06 <MNIM> You know? the default ottd company HQ looks pretty tiny compared to other town buildings
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23:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> this took like 5 minutes of searching:
23:12:39 <MNIM> hmmmmh.
23:13:28 <MNIM> I must have been using horrible search terms, apparently
23:13:38 <MNIM> seriously, where did my google fu go?
23:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i cheated, because i went through a couple of german posts :p
23:14:50 <MNIM> lol
23:14:55 <MNIM> well, I can read german
23:15:11 <MNIM> speaking and writing... Not so much
23:15:25 <MNIM> and yet I live, like, next door >.<
23:15:52 <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:16:15 <MNIM> is it just me, or has TTBR not developed much between 2008 and 20011? 0-o
23:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not at all.
23:17:08 <MNIM> :/
23:17:22 <MNIM> sad. those bridges are pretty neat, they deserve more updates!
23:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> all _interesting_ updates for bridges need completely new infrastructure, like action1/2/3 support
23:18:21 <MNIM> laymens terms? (sorry)
23:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> like the often requested "suspension bridges should span more tiles"
23:19:08 <MNIM> hmmmh, read something about that too.
23:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, the order of bridge tiles is fixed by the game
23:19:32 <MNIM> sounds to me like that would need a big change in how (o)ttd handles bridges in general
23:19:40 <MNIM> (...) indeed.
23:19:43 <MNIM> bah.
23:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> action1/2/3 would allow for switching graphics depending on variables (like length of/position in bridge)
23:20:03 * MNIM notes to self: stop pressing enter before you finished your sentence
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23:21:30 <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:21:55 <MNIM> from what I understand right now, a bridge has five tiles, plus ramps
23:22:41 <MNIM> five /unique/ tiles, I should say
23:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in a fixed order
23:23:34 <MNIM> so you can make stuff like a tied bridge as they do in TTRS, yet you can't repeat that five tiles long arch
23:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:23:47 <MNIM> TTBRS*
23:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that's already quite an abuse of the system
23:24:30 <MNIM> it's a hack, if I understand it correctly
23:24:43 <MNIM> and it works solely because it allows no repeats
23:26:07 <MNIM> hmmmmh
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23:27:30 <MNIM> that TBRS + TTRS3 set you linked me to seems to be a hack as well
23:28:04 <MNIM> the TTRS modern roads 'shopped on top of the bridges, sadly they still mismatch when used with the classic roads
23:28:39 <MNIM> oh well, Ill admit it's less of a mismatch :P
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23:35:32 * MNIM reads what the CHIPS abbreviation stands for
23:35:56 <MNIM> ...Yeah, jay, recursive abbreviations. probably a linux user :P
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23:43:50 <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:43:57 <MNIM> newstations looks kinda cool
23:44:07 * MNIM puts that in the 'keepers list
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23:49:57 <MNIM>
23:50:10 <MNIM> got any idea what roadset that is?
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23:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's NARoads
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23:54:32 <MNIM> ty
23:54:59 <MNIM> hmmmmmh
23:55:22 <MNIM> something like railtypes should be done for roads too
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23:57:58 <Mazur> dirtroads, gravel, brick, asphalt, you mean?
23:58:14 <Mazur> +concrete
23:59:15 <MNIM> something like that
23:59:42 <Mazur> Damn, gotta go searching for that XP key again.