IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-06-19
00:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no
00:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the other fix would be changing the grf-id of dutch catenary :p
00:03:44 <planetmaker> hm... I should sleep while pondering this problem. Good night :-)
00:04:34 <Ammler> better static grf support would rock in any case
00:05:25 <Ammler> static grfs are forgotten since the newgrf gui
00:06:28 <Ammler> it would also be coold for grfs which depend on basesets, like swedish rails
00:07:00 <Ammler> well, you would need to split the grf but might be worth
00:08:14 <Ammler> good night
00:10:47 *** Lakie has quit IRC
00:14:55 *** pugi has quit IRC
00:28:05 *** Mucht has quit IRC
00:34:32 *** fjb has quit IRC
00:37:04 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
00:56:55 *** m has quit IRC
00:59:30 *** fjb has joined #openttd
01:00:29 *** Vikthor has quit IRC
01:05:15 *** glx has quit IRC
01:18:26 *** Chillosophy has quit IRC
01:23:28 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
01:26:40 *** Mks has quit IRC
01:41:14 *** dfox has quit IRC
01:41:16 *** Brianetta has quit IRC
02:09:32 *** roboboy has quit IRC
02:44:57 *** bryjen has quit IRC
02:53:38 *** douknoukem has quit IRC
04:49:17 *** Mazur has joined #openttd
04:49:52 *** Mazur is now known as Guest5167
04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC
05:08:52 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
05:20:12 *** Qantourisc has quit IRC
05:21:50 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:34:22 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
05:44:52 *** Qantourisc has joined #openttd
06:00:11 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
06:00:23 <JVassie> mornin
06:05:35 *** JVassie has quit IRC
06:05:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:06:30 <andythenorth> bonjorno
06:26:55 <planetmaker> moin
06:49:08 *** lugo has quit IRC
06:49:28 *** KouDy has quit IRC
06:51:42 *** perk11 has joined #openttd
07:00:58 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
07:01:38 *** Zuu has joined #openttd
07:10:03 *** Zuu has quit IRC
07:10:27 *** Zuu has joined #openttd
07:13:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:21:42 *** Neon has joined #openttd
07:22:07 <Terkhen> good morning
07:25:18 *** Amis has joined #openttd
07:27:46 <planetmaker> hallo Terkhen
07:38:09 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
07:46:20 <George> Hi. ECS users ask me about FS#4366 - what are possibilities for it to be solved?
07:48:12 <andythenorth> something like that was discussed before
07:48:16 <andythenorth> but no patch
07:48:42 <planetmaker> it would need a gui similar to NewObjects
07:48:52 <planetmaker> or at least that's an option
07:49:12 <planetmaker> but... IMHO then we need preview sprites for all default industries as well
07:52:43 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:52:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
07:56:39 <planetmaker> but maybe there are other options. I don't know
08:01:57 *** bodis has quit IRC
08:02:18 *** bodis has joined #openttd
08:02:41 * Alberth would like preview sprites for industries, it'd make the 'fund industry' so much better
08:02:43 <George> I do not mean that solution should be done like I wrote. I mean we need some solution for a handy build of objects, whou have landscape restrictins. Flat land is a restriction too. Currently we have some bad industry placement on mountains maps
08:02:47 *** Prof_Frink has quit IRC
08:11:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
08:17:55 *** bodis has quit IRC
08:20:13 *** bodis has joined #openttd
08:23:16 *** TWerkhoven has joined #openttd
08:26:47 *** roboboy has quit IRC
08:34:43 <andythenorth> George: frosch or eddi proposed a cb for terraforming
08:34:58 <andythenorth> it would need to return relative heights and slopes for each tile for each layout
08:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember doing anything like this
08:35:29 <andythenorth> must have been someone else then :)
08:35:43 <George> Relative? Absolute would be much easier
08:36:06 <andythenorth> ??
08:36:12 <andythenorth> I think we must confuse terms :)
08:36:20 <George> or relative means not relative to current landscape, but relative to flat land?
08:36:22 <andythenorth> you don't intend to specify 'only build this tile at height 1'
08:36:47 <andythenorth> relative to N tile of industry would be most obvious I guess
08:36:58 <George> no, I mean do I need a huge callback to analise current landscape or not
08:37:11 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
08:37:22 <andythenorth> no
08:37:37 <andythenorth> you just tell the heights / slopes you need for each tile
08:37:41 <andythenorth> game tries to provide those
08:37:45 <George> then relative is fine (relative to flat land)
08:37:55 <andythenorth> if it can't create layout, then building fails
08:38:01 <George> ok
08:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have a suggestion for "simplified" firs economy: remove aluminium, textiles, milk, scrap metal and building materials [replace with goods], make each farm only produce one cargo [grain, sugar, livestock]
08:38:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: put it in the thread or ticket?
08:38:26 <George> It should allow both + and - according to flat land
08:38:28 <andythenorth> sounds fine - I'm about to go out though
08:39:15 <George> andythenorth: And when he plans to provide such CB?
08:39:26 <andythenorth> I don't know that he does :P
08:39:31 <andythenorth> it was a suggestion only
08:39:45 <George> any topic on the forums?
08:39:50 <andythenorth> no you could start one
08:39:59 <andythenorth> it's needed especially for things like quarries
08:40:05 <George> Yes
08:40:41 <George> - for mines and + for tourist centres :)
08:40:42 *** Mks has joined #openttd
08:40:59 <andythenorth> wrt industry previews - I think they're unrelated to this issue
08:41:09 <andythenorth> they don't add anything imo
08:41:28 <andythenorth> but that's not what you're ticket was about anyway George ?
08:42:17 <George> my FS was about the possibility for map generator to place tourists industry. Nothing else :)
08:43:53 <andythenorth> could probably get the result into a byte
08:44:08 <andythenorth> one nibble with 0-F for relative height to N tile
08:44:16 <andythenorth> 8 is 'same as N tile'
08:44:34 <andythenorth> one nibble is stuffed with slope data - not sure if it fits though
08:44:52 <andythenorth> slopes might not fit
08:45:02 <andythenorth> meh
08:45:07 <andythenorth> I am no good at that kind of stuff
08:45:16 * andythenorth -> takes the baby out to the museum
08:45:20 <andythenorth> bbl
08:45:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:54:02 *** ctibor has quit IRC
08:55:34 <Alberth> George: if you work relative to the highest or lowest point, you only need +
08:57:15 <George> Alberth: I know, but how would a mine look like? It would be some rised land on a plato with a pit in the middle
08:57:21 <George> does not look well
08:57:31 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
08:57:38 <George> mine should look like a pit on the plato
08:58:59 <George> anyway, I doub any industry would use value above +8 or below -8, so a signed int result should be fine
08:59:58 <Rubidium> but till what extent must the land be exactly like the heightmap?
09:00:38 <Rubidium> e.g. you say it must be completely flat, like an airport, so it must be completely leveled... however, an airport can be built on slightly not-so-leveled terrain
09:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "min" and "max" values?
09:00:52 <Rubidium> it'll just use foundations
09:01:27 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then you'd have say 0, -1 for each of the airport tiles for this to work
09:02:03 <Rubidium> but... what if 90% is at -1, then the few remaining are "above" the place where the heightmap would be
09:03:20 <Rubidium> unless you say it must be at X when foundations are laid, but that may wreak havoc when the industry draws without foundations
09:04:35 *** ctibor has joined #openttd
09:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there must be separate ways to decide "raw" map shape or "with foundation" map shape
09:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> neuschwanstein would check the "raw" shape, and an airport would check the "with foundation" map shape
09:05:58 *** DDR has quit IRC
09:07:23 <Rubidium> and then there's the question from which point to calculate the heights
09:07:46 <Rubidium> one would say 0,0 of the industry, but if I'm not mistaken that might be empty
09:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, north corner should be the right origin. each position could get also a "don't care" value
09:09:24 <Rubidium> but what if 0,0 is such a don't care value?
09:09:53 <Rubidium> should a nearby hill, where you don't build on, influence the height to build the industry?
09:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a problem for the newgrf author to solve?
09:10:30 <Rubidium> e.g. the shape could be right, but due to that nearby hill it's 1 tile too low, and so you can't build it
09:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> err... something's not right with the spreadsheet
09:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call it a "desync"
09:30:06 <planetmaker> hm?
09:30:51 <planetmaker> in what way, Eddi|zuHause ?
09:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause> my sheet says "saved 12 hours ago/saving", and when i open it in another browser, it looks totally different (someone re-sorted it in the mean time)
09:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and the additions i made are now at the wrong places
09:32:50 <planetmaker> that sounds nasty
09:34:26 *** lugo has joined #openttd
09:35:08 <planetmaker> are you sure we need both epochs, 3 and 4?
09:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that's more of a "common standard"
09:40:51 *** Pulec has joined #openttd
09:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if you tell anyone involved with railways you're talking about epoche 4, he'll know exactly what you're talking about
09:42:14 <planetmaker> interesting. Never heart that before ;-)
09:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "epoche 0" is a bit of a stretch, though ;)
09:42:30 * Rubidium doesn't have a clue either
09:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause>
09:48:21 *** pugi has joined #openttd
09:49:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that is as official as it gets:
09:58:54 <planetmaker> :-)
10:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> most notable difference between epoche 3 and epoche 4 is the engine numbers (BR 110 instead of BR E10, etc.)
10:01:58 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
10:04:21 <JVassie> hi guys
10:04:29 <JVassie> new sheet?
10:05:32 <JVassie> planetmaker: Eddi|zuHause
10:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: why?
10:06:16 <JVassie> there is a new sheet
10:06:19 <JVassie> someones working on
10:06:23 <JVassie> wondering what its for?
10:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you're talking about
10:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, there
10:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> timeline is especially useful for the "core" set
10:20:55 <planetmaker> that's what I'd like to add there only
10:21:35 <JVassie> planetmaker: whats the plan for it matE?
10:21:43 <JVassie> oh
10:21:51 <JVassie> is that to charter what weve got in the set so far?
10:22:08 <JVassie> oh i see
10:22:14 <JVassie> picking the core set to cover the spans
10:28:02 <JVassie> planetmaker: V200 is express pax too, no?
10:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: different V200
10:28:40 <JVassie> full name of this V200 so i can check up on it pls?
10:28:51 <JVassie> BR220?
10:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> V200 (west) == express passengers, V200 (east) = cargo
10:29:13 <JVassie> do they look the same?
10:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> completely different
10:29:28 <JVassie> kk ill look
10:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> V200 (east) is a russian model
10:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> M62(?)
10:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> one of those
10:30:06 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttd
10:30:25 <JVassie>
10:30:30 <JVassie> see what you mean
10:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause>
10:30:57 <JVassie> Baureihe just means class right?
10:31:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:31:22 <JVassie> :)
10:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> V means Verbrennungsmotor (combustion engine)
10:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and 200 means 2000PS
10:32:17 <JVassie> ah ok
10:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (2000hp)
10:32:53 <JVassie> an express loco for the 50s would be good planetmaker; E10 perhaps?
10:32:59 <JVassie> its quite a famous loco
10:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, quite definitely
10:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> list of engines is by no means complete yet
10:33:21 <planetmaker> I didn't make any choice, but relied on eddi's markings ;-)
10:33:35 <planetmaker> and that was clear to me, yes :-)
10:33:38 <JVassie> ah ok
10:33:44 <JVassie> picking the ones marked core already
10:33:46 <JVassie> no drama :)
10:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but i gtg now
10:34:06 <JVassie> no worries
10:34:15 <planetmaker> well, as said: I've not much clue about the different engines
10:34:33 <planetmaker> I might when I see an image recognize some. I just did copy&paste...
10:34:43 <JVassie> some Swiss/Austrian stuff would look good too
10:34:48 <JVassie> no worries planetmaker ;)
10:34:58 <planetmaker> feel free to make a choice on some additional core engines
10:35:10 <planetmaker> (IMHO). Dunno what Eddi|zuHause thinks ;-)
10:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> feel also free to add swiss/austrian engines ;)
10:35:22 <JVassie> especially like the ETR470
10:35:28 <JVassie> that goes to stuttgart i know for sure
10:35:33 <JVassie> (or used to when i was on it last)
10:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> also we should include czech and polish engines
10:36:12 <JVassie> should we limit it to cross border stuff or?
10:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:36:25 <JVassie> perhaps cross border for limited core stuff
10:36:31 <JVassie> but include much more in the extended set
10:36:48 <JVassie> we need a definition for core I think
10:36:52 <JVassie> unless we have one already
10:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd imagine a choice list like: "Epoche 1: none/prussia/saxony/bavaria/austria/all"
10:37:12 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: has one ;-)
10:37:36 <JVassie> Eddi needs adding to the team on devzone
10:37:42 <planetmaker> indeed
10:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: don't worry about "core" for now, just add engines ;)
10:37:52 <JVassie> :D
10:37:56 <JVassie> yessir!
10:38:14 <JVassie> need to fidn out about these new SBB double deck IC/IR sets
10:38:16 <JVassie> *find
10:39:01 <planetmaker> added you on the devzone, too, Eddi|zuHause
10:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> a choice like this for each of the epochs
10:39:35 <JVassie>
10:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> like "Epoche 3: none/west germany/east germany/austria/poland/all"
10:40:06 <JVassie> is that the core definition?
10:40:09 <JVassie> sounds good
10:40:13 *** dfox has joined #openttd
10:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> for each of these settings, there should be enough engines in the "core" set to be useful
10:41:03 <JVassie> aye reckon so
10:41:04 <JVassie> ooh
10:41:04 <JVassie>
10:41:07 <JVassie> very jazzy :D
10:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you concentrate on "austria", ignore all engines that have "company" set to "DB" or "DR"
10:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> only take those set to "ÖBB"
10:42:20 <JVassie> uh huh
10:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> or "BBÖ" before it was restructured
10:42:35 <JVassie>
10:42:42 <JVassie> DB getting them too
10:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so things like the E94, which are used in both regions, set to "DRG,BBÖ"
10:43:20 <JVassie> gotcha
10:43:37 <JVassie> need to investigate the Taurus's
10:43:44 <JVassie> how are we gonna handle regional differences etc
10:43:50 <JVassie> theres been multiple versions
10:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> minor differences => ignore
10:52:43 *** macee has joined #openttd
10:56:24 *** macee has left #openttd
11:06:43 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:14:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
11:15:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:20:03 *** douknoukem has joined #openttd
11:20:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
11:26:26 *** Pixa has joined #openttd
11:28:30 *** a1270 has quit IRC
11:33:36 *** perk11 has quit IRC
11:34:52 *** Zuu has quit IRC
11:42:43 *** Guest5167 has quit IRC
11:53:59 *** Mazur has joined #openttd
11:54:13 *** Kurimus has quit IRC
11:54:32 *** Mazur is now known as Guest5189
11:56:07 *** sllide has joined #openttd
11:56:13 *** execat has joined #openttd
11:58:56 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
12:01:11 *** glx has joined #openttd
12:01:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
12:01:44 *** m has joined #openttd
12:04:47 * andythenorth ponders reworking FIRS cargos
12:04:50 <andythenorth> how about Rice?
12:05:34 <execat> How do you enable selling and buying shares?
12:05:44 <execat> In my multiplayer game, that option is grayed out.
12:07:26 *** amkoroew has joined #openttd
12:08:14 <Alberth> iirc that is a setting in the advanced options
12:08:28 <Alberth> server-side :)
12:08:32 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
12:08:46 *** KritiK has joined #openttd
12:09:53 <execat> Alberth: Is it? Lemme check.
12:10:39 <execat> Alberth: Indeed. Thanks :)
12:12:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22602 /branches/1.1/src/settings.cpp: [1.1] -Fix: MSVC compile warning
12:13:09 *** a1270 has quit IRC
12:16:01 *** execat has quit IRC
12:17:16 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
12:20:44 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker: Did you consider different track types akin to yet?
12:22:48 <planetmaker> michi_cc: not directly
12:23:05 <planetmaker> The set must be usable IMHO with many track newgrfs
12:23:26 <planetmaker> trains can be adjusted to make use of them appropriately though, if present
12:25:48 *** goblin has joined #openttd
12:26:55 *** a1270 has quit IRC
12:30:29 *** goblin has quit IRC
12:31:15 <michi_cc> There isn't really anything besides NuTracks though right now that introduces a lot of different track types. And those mostly aren't really different, just another work-around for speed limits. (Not counting MetroTracks and Pikka's tracks here, as they are quite specialized)
12:32:17 <planetmaker> agreed.
12:32:27 <planetmaker> Throwing together such track set would be moderately easy
12:32:50 <planetmaker> Graphics around are abundant, from default tracks, NuTracks and SwedishRails.
12:33:06 <planetmaker> 50% would be c&p from swedishrails
12:33:19 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
12:34:40 <andythenorth> there's little mileage in drawing new rail sprites now
12:34:44 <andythenorth> mostly done
12:37:56 <planetmaker> such set would make sense when this CETS kinda picks up somewhat ;-)
12:38:02 <planetmaker> with different axle weights
12:38:52 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
12:38:59 <michi_cc> Organizing a track set along axle weight (as mb seems to be planning) makes more sense than a plain speed categorization IMHO, as it gives better opportunity to include similar, yet equally interesting locos in a set.
12:39:07 <Wolf01> miau
12:40:11 <andythenorth> can tracks be used to create priority?
12:40:23 <Alberth> I know about a wolf in sheeps-cloths, but a cat?
12:40:33 <andythenorth> e.g. low axle load to keep freight trains off two tracks of a four-track route?
12:40:34 <planetmaker> michi_cc: but then the question is: why not always buy / build the better tracks and run everything there?
12:41:03 * andythenorth hasn't found that much use yet for extra-clever track stuff :|
12:41:16 <andythenorth> electric overhead / 3rd rail makes sense
12:41:35 <andythenorth> and narrow gauge / standard gauge / mixed is an under-developed idea
12:42:10 <michi_cc> Make them expensive enough so that players who do care have a reason. And players who like to haul coal with maglevs won't care anyway, so those can be ignored.
12:43:57 <planetmaker> price factor difference of 4 between track types or so... hm
12:44:48 <planetmaker> still, as money is little reason to do or not do something in most games after 10 years (except with yacd ;-) )
12:46:52 *** a1270 has quit IRC
12:49:07 *** DayDreamer1 has joined #openttd
12:49:42 <andythenorth> there could be eye candy reasons for track sets, but they would be too much trouble to use
12:50:01 <andythenorth> like fenced, unfenced, concrete track, snow sheds etc
12:50:52 <planetmaker> that's the reason for SER... but of course you can only have one type of fence there. But every you want ;_)
12:54:10 *** DayDreamer has quit IRC
12:54:48 <George> can someone help with strings with cases? Have a look here please
12:55:45 <Yexo> George: the thorn should be before the start of the string, so before the first 9A
12:55:57 <Yexo> and there should only be one of them per string
12:56:32 <George> could you fix that string to show how should it look like?
12:56:56 <Yexo> 1 * 1 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Þ" 9A 14 9A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" 9A 11 "Bútorgyár" 9A 12 00 <- something like that
12:57:10 <Yexo> only 9A is not valid in a unicode string, so you'd have to escape that too
12:58:19 <Yexo> 1 * 1 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Þ" \UE09A 14 \UE09A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" \UE09A 11 "Bútorgyár" \UE09A 12 00 <- I think like this
12:58:57 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
12:59:19 <Yexo> not sure if you do support ttdpatch, but if you do you'll want to include this string only for openttd, for ttdpach only include the default case
12:59:28 <Yexo> ie the "Bútorgyár" part
13:01:46 <George> //!!Invalid escape sequence.
13:01:46 <George> // 0 * 0 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Þ" \UE09A 14 \UE09A 10 01 "bútorgyárat" \UE09A 11 "Bútorgyár" \UE09A 12 00
13:02:01 <George> (NFO renum report)
13:03:19 <andythenorth>
13:03:22 <planetmaker> yes, the number of " is too large
13:03:56 <planetmaker> the special chars need to be inside the string
13:03:58 *** a1270 has quit IRC
13:04:08 <Rubidium> George: might it be that \U.... should be within a string?
13:04:28 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
13:04:45 <planetmaker> "Þ\UE09A "14 "\UE09A "10 01 "bútorgyárat \UE09A "11 "Bútorgyár \UE09A "12
13:04:51 <planetmaker> not sure about the other bytes
13:04:54 <Yexo> 10 * 50 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Þ\UE09A" 14 "\UE09A" 10 01 "bútorgyárat" "\UE09A" 11 "Bútorgyár" "\UE09A" 12 00 <- that works
13:04:59 <Yexo> at least for nforenum
13:05:17 <George> 1 * 50 04 0A A4 01 5F DC "Þ\UE09A\14\UE09A\10\01bútorgyárat\UE09A\11Bútorgyár\UE09A\12" 00
13:05:31 <Yexo> that is the same :)
13:05:35 <Yexo> just written differently
13:10:08 <George> Thank you for help :)
13:10:16 <George> Looks like it works
13:15:51 *** amkoroew has quit IRC
13:22:05 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
13:25:30 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
13:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker: Did you consider different track types akin to yet? <-- i wanted to add that column yesterday, but forgot.
13:58:43 <planetmaker> :-)
14:03:51 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
14:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what's weird? yesterday the spreadsheet thing was in german, today it's in english...
14:06:45 <planetmaker> different locale of your browser / os?
14:07:18 <valhalla1w> based on my IP google has been bothering to switch to google.{nl,de,fr} the last week -_-
14:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> nope, nothing changes
14:07:42 <planetmaker> btw, Eddi|zuHause re E10: there are two optically different versions, the "Kasten" and the "Bügelfalte"
14:08:08 <planetmaker> but technically they seem to be the same... one engine with longer build period (and possibly varying look), or two?
14:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: same model, just different graphics
14:08:26 <planetmaker> good, then we agree
14:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure about BR 01, BR 01.10 and BR 01.5 though
14:11:07 *** valhallasw has quit IRC
14:12:48 <planetmaker> rather not. Though we might not want to include all - and then it could be a visual change only
14:14:57 *** Zeknurn has quit IRC
14:17:47 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttd
14:25:50 *** Kurimus has quit IRC
14:27:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Radsatzfahrmasse: 17,0 t <-- that's the weight important for track type?
14:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- potential track types A/B/C/D
14:29:38 <planetmaker> hm, yes
14:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there could separately be versions for low and high speed
14:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but not overdo it
14:33:56 *** Chrill has joined #openttd
14:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause> A (early, ca. 60km/h), B (normal, electric, ca. 100km/h), C (normal, electric, ca. 140km/h), C' (normal, electric, ca. 200km/h), D (normal, electric, ca. 140 km/h), D' (electric, 350km/h) <-- about 10 track types
14:34:37 <planetmaker> speed limits on tracks are... a bit boring
14:34:51 *** amkoroew has joined #openttd
14:34:57 <planetmaker> engines already limit that
14:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> could do C' and D' without limit
14:35:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but very expensive
14:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> limiting freight wagons to certain axle weights may be troublesome
14:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's the actually interesting part differing between C and D
14:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly add B and C with 3rd rail
14:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause> while at it: what happened to the two-railtypes-on-one-tile patch?
14:40:29 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
14:40:37 <planetmaker> did it exist?
14:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a screenshot ;)
14:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> was that from michi_cc?
14:44:52 *** goblin has joined #openttd
14:47:51 *** valhalla1w has quit IRC
14:47:53 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
14:49:50 *** valhallasw has quit IRC
14:53:37 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
14:54:13 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
15:01:42 *** valhalla1w has quit IRC
15:02:38 *** goblin has quit IRC
15:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, price factor for railtypes: A: x1, B: x3, Be: x5, C: x9, Ce: x16, C': x32, C'e: x60, D: x32, De: x48, D'e: x196?
15:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> electrification gets progressively more expensive
15:08:45 *** Chrill has quit IRC
15:10:56 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's IMHO too many track types
15:11:00 <planetmaker> 4 are enough
15:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. we had this discussion already
15:11:19 <planetmaker> as one will also need electrification
15:11:32 <planetmaker> though... not for all. Some will always have it
15:11:37 <planetmaker> like D
15:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> could be also a "core" and "extended" set
15:11:54 <planetmaker> :-D
15:12:11 <planetmaker> or was your Be as B electified?
15:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Be is electrified, yes
15:12:28 <planetmaker> and what's C' ?
15:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> C with higher (or no) speed limit
15:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the track types in MB's expected track set would be: A, Be, C, C'e and D'e (5 plus transrapid)
15:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> D and De would only be useful if you also divide cargo wagons by axle weight
15:16:33 <planetmaker> that to me sounds like a useful choice.
15:16:50 <planetmaker> Then one can still add narrow gauge, some 3rd rail and maglev
15:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> 3rd rail combined with long distance isn't all that common, so a B3 and C3 would likely suffice
15:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> some sections of berlin outer ring had 3rd rail on the long distance track
15:18:12 <planetmaker> yes, not 3rd rail for all. Possibly one 3rd rail suffices even
15:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> until the outer ring got electrified, then they separated them, like in all other parts of berlin
15:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think "high speed" 3rd rail is used anywhere in central europe
15:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: <-- the old railtype discussion
15:31:33 <JVassie> hi guys
15:32:23 <planetmaker> thanks for finding that again, Eddi|zuHause :-)
15:32:56 <planetmaker> hi JVassie
15:33:03 <JVassie> hows it going?
15:33:29 *** AD has quit IRC
15:33:31 *** AD has joined #openttd
15:34:02 *** AD is now known as Guest5201
15:36:03 <JVassie> also planetmaker / Eddi|zuHause
15:36:10 <JVassie> do we plan tt-forums thread?
15:36:12 <JVassie> *plan a
15:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: not yet
15:36:41 <planetmaker> not yet. It doesn't need hot air threads ;-)
15:36:42 <JVassie> :)
15:36:46 <JVassie> indeed not
15:36:48 <planetmaker> it has plenty
15:37:21 <planetmaker> of those
15:37:34 <JVassie> yuppers
15:37:46 <JVassie> i was thinking just now about rolling stock
15:37:54 <JVassie> a seperate sheet on the googledoc?
15:39:43 *** Hyronymus has joined #openttd
15:40:09 <JVassie> hey Hyronymus
15:40:17 <Hyronymus> hi Jaime
15:40:20 <JVassie> not seen you on here in a while
15:40:24 <JVassie> Jaime? :p
15:40:50 <Hyronymus> doing fine?
15:41:57 <JVassie> aye not bad thx
15:41:59 <JVassie> yourself?
15:42:00 <Hyronymus> k
15:46:53 <Hyronymus> yexo, planetmaker
15:47:17 <planetmaker> hi Hyronymus
15:47:22 <Hyronymus> hello
15:47:34 * Hyronymus hopes Yexo is here too
15:47:56 <JVassie> im sure he'll read it later if he aint :)
15:48:15 <Hyronymus> k
15:48:43 <Hyronymus> planetmaker: I've been thinking about providing an NML template library
15:49:03 <Hyronymus> I'm hesitant about it though because my own NML skills are far from adequate
15:49:48 <Hyronymus> but the idea is that literally every n00b can browse through a NML template and choose whatever he/she needs to i.e. code an articulated tram
15:49:53 <Yexo> hello Hyronymus
15:49:59 <Yexo> yes, I'm here
15:50:00 <Hyronymus> hi Yexo
15:50:14 <planetmaker> what do you want to generally template, Hyronymus ?
15:50:29 <Hyronymus> to start with all basic stuff
15:50:36 <planetmaker> What I can think of are sprite templates
15:50:42 <planetmaker> like one flat ground tile
15:50:45 <planetmaker> a normal train
15:50:52 <planetmaker> a set of ground tiles with all slopes
15:50:54 <planetmaker> etc
15:50:57 <Hyronymus> yes
15:51:00 <Yexo> I don't think that will work, since combining different templates will require at least some knowledge about nml
15:51:05 <planetmaker> along with the corresponding graphics files
15:51:13 <Yexo> I think the correct way to go would be to create extensive tutorials
15:51:31 <Yexo> oh, sprite templates do make sense :)
15:51:36 <planetmaker> but going beyond sprite templates... is, as yexo says, difficult
15:51:41 <Yexo> sorry, thought you wanted to template the code
15:51:49 <planetmaker> it's then taylored to the individual grf
15:51:58 <Alberth> perhaps make documented examples instead?
15:52:01 <Yexo> if that were possible it'd be a higher level of abstractions and we'd have tried to implement that in nml already
15:52:01 <Hyronymus> hang on
15:52:19 <planetmaker> :-) yeah
15:52:45 <planetmaker> well, if it weren't possible, there'd be no need for templates like we use now in our sets, Yexo ;-)
15:53:01 *** Zuu has joined #openttd
15:53:02 <planetmaker> but... those are all relatively specific
15:53:09 <Hyronymus> I'm mixing things up
15:53:13 <Yexo> those are specific for each grf, not general for all grfs
15:53:43 <planetmaker> yes... though the autofence template could be re-used
15:54:02 <planetmaker> as part of other tile layouts
15:54:10 <Hyronymus> isn't it possible to create a code teamplate for lets say steam engines?
15:54:26 <planetmaker> (and leave the authors puzzled why the grf crashes in OpenTTD 1.1.x :-P)
15:54:26 <Yexo> Hyronymus: a basic template? sure
15:54:34 <Hyronymus> yes, a basic template
15:54:36 <Yexo> but as soon as you want anything customized you'll have to implement that as extra
15:55:00 <Alberth> and you have to explain the template anyways somewhere
15:55:01 <Hyronymus> well, customization as in a tender seems fairly standard to me, right
15:55:02 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: a basic 'template' is just a simple code example
15:55:29 <planetmaker> but creating that as a form of tutorial would be great
15:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: i'd not say you need a "template" (in the nml sense), but a "code generator" (in the IDE sense)
15:55:51 <Hyronymus> that would be even greater, Eddi|zuHause
15:55:55 <planetmaker> :-D
15:55:59 <Hyronymus> but way above my head
15:56:06 <Hyronymus> *over my head
15:56:13 <Hyronymus> or whatever the expression is in English
15:56:21 <Hyronymus> :D
15:56:52 <Yexo> Hyronymus: something like this but with additional explanations?
15:57:16 <Hyronymus> yes, I was looking for that example
15:58:03 <planetmaker> Yexo: do we want those examples in a) NML documentation b) the tt-wiki c) as regression test?
15:58:07 <Yexo> Bigger example with a callback for the capacity and different grahpics per cargo type
15:58:11 <planetmaker> d) something else?
15:58:32 <Yexo> a) only minimal examples in the nml documentation, it's meant to be reference documentation
15:58:45 <planetmaker> :-D I must have some nearly verbatim copy from ogfx+trains there ;-)
15:58:57 <Yexo> c) regression test should test small portions of code, something like 013 is not really appropriate
15:59:05 <Yexo> so tt-wiki seems to be a good place
15:59:50 <Hyronymus> tt-wiki would do indeed
16:00:44 <Hyronymus> also since the grf stuff is there too
16:01:08 <planetmaker> alternatively it could of course also go to the development section of the openttd wiki
16:01:15 <Yexo> tt-wiki is more fitting
16:01:23 <planetmaker> ^ I tend to agree, though
16:01:26 <Yexo> nfo tutorials would also fit there, it keeps everything in one place
16:02:22 <Hyronymus> how much will it be to set it up?
16:02:47 <planetmaker> setup what?
16:02:55 <planetmaker> a wiki page is easy to create ;-)
16:03:06 <Hyronymus> the wiki frame on tt-wiki
16:03:29 <planetmaker> what frame?
16:03:40 <Hyronymus> uhm
16:03:41 <Hyronymus> boy
16:03:44 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
16:03:54 <Hyronymus> never had so much problem explaining myelf :P
16:04:02 * Hyronymus blames the beer
16:04:06 <planetmaker> :-D
16:04:21 <planetmaker> I'd say: Just start with it
16:04:36 <Hyronymus> how much time will it take to put such more detailed examples on the tt-wiki
16:04:42 <planetmaker> a table of contents of NML tutorials will follow naturally what is there
16:04:43 <Hyronymus> hah, I managed :P
16:05:04 <planetmaker> Dunno? How long does it take you? ;-)
16:05:21 <Hyronymus> looking at the Dutch Trainset development: long
16:05:48 <planetmaker> :-)
16:07:17 <Hyronymus> looking at how to work with a Wiki
16:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean typing your new page name in the link and clicking on "yes, create new page here"?
16:09:51 <Hyronymus> sst
16:09:54 <Hyronymus> :p
16:10:41 *** valhallasw has quit IRC
16:15:53 <Yexo> planetmaker: the sidebar on has a link to "Tutorial" which still links to, while those pages are already copied to
16:21:53 <planetmaker> fixed
16:22:39 <Hyronymus>
16:24:14 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: == indicates headings
16:24:32 <planetmaker> == heading name ==
16:24:45 <Hyronymus> right
16:26:13 <Hyronymus> hmm
16:26:28 <Hyronymus> double heading now :o
16:27:22 *** valhalla1w has quit IRC
16:30:30 <planetmaker> The page name is always the first an upper most heading
16:31:20 <Hyronymus> I see
16:31:32 <Hyronymus> I now moved it to NMLTutorial
16:31:41 *** ar3kaw has joined #openttd
16:31:41 <Hyronymus> I saw lakie did that for GRFTutorial once
16:31:46 <frosch123> Hyronymus: add a category right from the start
16:33:01 <Hyronymus> uhm, will try frosch123
16:34:18 <Hyronymus> done
16:34:43 <frosch123> planetmaker: the tutorial page which is linked now, seems to be something copletely different than the old tutorials
16:35:05 <JVassie> <Yexo> I think the correct way to go would be to create extensive tutorials
16:35:09 <Yexo> yes, correct link would be
16:35:09 <planetmaker> [[Category:NML]] @ Hyronymus
16:35:10 <JVassie> I do plan to help on that front
16:35:11 <JVassie> :p
16:35:25 <Yexo> however that page misses a table of contents
16:35:40 <planetmaker> Yexo: frosch123 I looked at both pages. The current one seems the better link to me
16:35:42 <Yexo> JVassie: great, you have a starting point now:
16:35:48 <JVassie> woo \o/
16:35:53 <frosch123> planetmaker: ah, sorry, the page just lacks links to the subpages
16:36:27 <Hyronymus> it misses real content, not just the table
16:36:28 <Yexo> planetmaker: right, didn't look to closely, Tutorials links back to GRFTutorial, so it's fine :)
16:36:28 <Hyronymus> :P
16:36:33 <JVassie> Yexo: I might put up a 'my first train in NML' tutorial tonight
16:36:46 <frosch123> planetmaker: vs.
16:37:39 <planetmaker> yes... I noticed the "sprite drawing" and the "grf tutorial" - which both IMHO is important.
16:38:10 <frosch123> but presignals, not exactly :p
16:38:14 <planetmaker> :-)
16:38:21 <planetmaker> that's the measurement error
16:38:47 <frosch123> how about moving drawingsprites to GRFTutorials?
16:38:55 <frosch123> and only link GrfTutorials froms the specs?
16:38:57 <planetmaker> that's a solution, too
16:39:02 *** ar3k has quit IRC
16:39:11 <frosch123> (besided GRFTutorials lacks links to all tutorials)
16:40:55 <JVassie> can newgrfs access the current game's difficulty settings?
16:41:02 <planetmaker> yes
16:41:39 <JVassie> so setting runnign costs based on those is possible?
16:41:41 <JVassie> *running
16:42:05 *** nostradamus has joined #openttd
16:42:13 <Yexo> possible, yes, good idea, not sure
16:42:26 <JVassie> hmm
16:42:32 <JVassie> something to think about perhaps
16:42:34 <JVassie> also btw
16:42:39 <Yexo> when you want to play without AIs for example you difficulty level must be custom
16:42:39 <JVassie> with our idea of core/extended
16:42:46 <Hyronymus> how do I setup a category page
16:42:52 <JVassie> those will be controlled by parameters right?
16:42:56 <Yexo> Hyronymus: click the link and than click edit at the top
16:43:05 <Yexo> JVassie: yes
16:43:18 <JVassie> I presume we will actually provide the option of None too?
16:43:25 <JVassie> so None/Core/Extended
16:43:27 <Yexo> what would be the point of that?
16:43:39 <JVassie> so if people dotn want trains from Czech
16:43:43 <JVassie> *republic
16:43:47 <JVassie> they dont have to include them
16:43:59 <nostradamus> guys i just have chosen an invalid resoluton and cant see the game now. How do i change it in my registry?
16:44:18 <Yexo> nostradamus: read readme.txt section 4.2, find openttd.cfg and fix it in there
16:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> type alt+enter in the game to switch to windowed mode
16:45:06 <Yexo> most likely place: My Documents\OpenTTD\openttd.cfg
16:45:31 <nostradamus> danke eddi ;) thx to yexo as well
16:47:14 *** nostradamus has quit IRC
16:50:20 <planetmaker> [18:35] planetmaker [[Category:NML]] @ Hyronymus
16:51:01 <planetmaker> JVassie: I don't really like to depend things on the difficulty settings
16:51:18 <planetmaker> it complicates things a lot and makes testing a BIG PAIN
16:51:31 <planetmaker> and I'm not sure it adds anything
16:51:39 <planetmaker> rather direct parameters IMHO
16:56:12 <Ammler> maybe you can have different "defaults" for the parameters depending on difficulty settings...
17:00:33 <planetmaker> I'm not sure that's possible
17:00:39 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
17:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: the thought was like this, eg. if you want to play a silesia scenario, you choose "Set: core", "Epoche 1: prussian railway", "Epoche 2: DRG", "Epoche 3: PKP"
17:01:59 <Hyronymus> nice idea
17:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if you play a DDR scenario, you choose e.g "Set: core", "Epoche 1: none", "Epoche 2: none", "Epoche 3: DR"
17:02:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: was there any result in the callback template? vs.
17:02:38 <Hyronymus> can different epoches have different cost multipliers
17:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: why would that be necessary?
17:03:18 <frosch123> i don't like the abbreviation of CB as it does not really make stuff shorter with so many parameters, but i have no opinion on the format
17:03:19 <planetmaker> frosch123: yours seems slightly more elaborate, mine a sub-set of yours. Thus Template:Callback would seem like the choice.
17:03:21 <Hyronymus> not necessairy
17:03:34 <Hyronymus> but it might make gameplay after 50 years harder
17:03:55 <frosch123> should we install the parser extention to make use of #if for conditional display of rows?
17:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: there is inflation for that
17:04:12 <planetmaker> oh, that's not default?
17:04:15 <planetmaker> that'd be nice then
17:04:22 <frosch123> apparently now :)
17:04:36 <frosch123> orudge: we need the parser extention, please :)
17:04:36 <Hyronymus> inflation doesn't matter much to large companies though
17:04:40 <planetmaker> :-)
17:04:49 <frosch123> damns, s/now/not/
17:04:54 <Hyronymus> but I think that requires a different approach
17:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: if you want to be really evil, you can use the running cost callback to increase for older engines
17:05:21 <planetmaker> :-)
17:05:32 <planetmaker> double every 10 years
17:05:40 <Hyronymus> some people on the forums believe I invented evil
17:05:45 <Hyronymus> so bring it on :P
17:05:47 <planetmaker> didn't you?
17:05:55 * planetmaker hides
17:05:59 * Hyronymus points to his parents
17:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: i think it's a little early to decide this stuff, though
17:06:25 <Hyronymus> possaibly
17:06:32 <Hyronymus> *possibly
17:09:55 <planetmaker> quite so. IMHO the further path would now be: get list of engines for the core set, get the sprites, get the engines (and wagons?) into the game in a somewhat 'basic' way.
17:10:12 <planetmaker> Then start adding the advanced things.
17:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> there are only a handful of different wagons, most can probably be done with recolouring
17:10:54 <planetmaker> yes. Recolouring will hopefully soon be no issue
17:11:12 <planetmaker> Currently I have a bit trouble to use all 256 recolour sprites :-)
17:11:20 <planetmaker> at least in random varaction2
17:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the company colours are probably not right for recolouring, need custom masks
17:15:40 <planetmaker> well. Feasible as well. Will be interesting, though, I've never done that before
17:16:06 <Yexo> planetmaker: I don't think Eddi|zuHause means recolouring in the grf, I think he means manual recolouring of the sprites in an image editing program
17:16:27 <planetmaker> maybe :-)
17:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: well, could be one or the other...
17:18:41 <andythenorth> moar wagons!
17:18:42 <planetmaker> indeed I'd like to test custom re-colouring at one date...
17:18:45 <andythenorth> moar = better :D
17:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> scale: i propose 24m = 16lu (1 tile)
17:19:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: all look alike to what? :P
17:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all ships :p
17:20:17 * andythenorth lulz :|
17:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like "all chinese people look alike" :p
17:20:40 * andythenorth subscribes to newsletter called "why bother" :D
17:21:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that means articulated engines for the steamers
17:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, most things need articulation, and longwagon-ish handling
17:21:47 <andythenorth> fwiw, FISH appears to have accidentally been draw to scale of 1px = 2 feet in length ( - view)
17:22:01 <andythenorth> this was not a conscious choice
17:22:24 <andythenorth> a certain amount of post-rationalisation may have happened :P
17:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2*64*12*2.54
17:22:45 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3901.44
17:22:53 <frosch123> <- impressive page.... does that mean tt-wiki is actually older than the ttdpatch wiki?
17:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so 1 tile = 39m?
17:23:42 <frosch123> hmm, nvm, seems that page is importet from ttdpatch wiki
17:24:32 <frosch123> makes it interesting nevertheless though
17:25:03 <frosch123> setting up the ttdpatch wiki in 2004 resulted in the same todo items than setting up the new wiki today :)
17:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> not that there would be any use in scaling railways to ships, though ;)
17:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: everything repeats itself
17:25:51 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|away
17:26:29 <planetmaker> lol
17:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the steam engines in dbset are already 1 tile long
17:27:44 <planetmaker> ah... back to start for Hyr|away it seems: "- Write tutorials for pre-signals, for the new graphics features and perhaps other things"
17:27:58 <JVassie> back
17:28:09 <planetmaker> also in NARS / UKRS
17:28:20 <andythenorth> @calc 30 / 50
17:28:20 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.6
17:28:29 <andythenorth> @calc 50/30
17:28:29 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.66666666667
17:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> main problem in those sets is that the (passenger) wagons are not to scale
17:28:39 <andythenorth> NARS 2 is 1 px per 1.6 feet
17:28:42 <andythenorth> approx
17:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1.6*64*12*2.54
17:28:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3121.152
17:28:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: they're too short?
17:29:19 <frosch123> [19:27] <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the steam engines in dbset are already 1 tile long <- excluding the tender
17:29:51 <frosch123> and iirc some extent towards the front
17:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i was under the impression LüP would be including tender
17:31:58 <andythenorth> sometimes a bit of selective compression is good
17:32:07 <andythenorth> the game looks better when it's got a toylike aspect
17:32:35 <andythenorth> one of the better things about 32bpp (there aren't many) is the compressed trains
17:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the toy-like aspect won't go away
17:37:20 <JVassie> @calc 440+470+470+395+470
17:37:20 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 2245
17:37:31 <JVassie> @calc 350+340+420
17:37:31 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 1110
17:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a BR01 is around 24m, and a UIC-Y wagon is also around 24m (UIC-X around 26m). yet the BR01 is twice as long as any wagon
17:38:43 <JVassie> lul
17:38:58 *** keoz has joined #openttd
17:39:14 <JVassie> @calc 187+27+865
17:39:14 <DorpsGek> JVassie: 1079
17:42:44 <JVassie> planetmaker, Eddi|zuHause
17:42:56 <JVassie> were gonna need to charter which locos had which liveries and when
17:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: that should be easy, livery is mostly defined by company and date
17:43:45 <planetmaker> currently they will all have exactly one livery ;-)
17:43:57 <JVassie> pfft
17:44:10 <planetmaker> but yes, they're very easy to add
17:44:23 <JVassie> and we need a schema for passenger wagons :p
17:45:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22603 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt:
17:45:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 5 changes by telk5093
17:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> get the engines first
17:45:17 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Parameter: "livery defined by: build date/servicing date/current date"?
17:47:26 *** Pixa has quit IRC
17:47:53 <JVassie> nice idea Eddi|zuHause
17:48:04 <JVassie> is it possible I presume?
17:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be...
17:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> servicing date might need a "long format" version
17:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it won't work before 1920
17:49:12 <JVassie> My preference would be build date
17:49:14 <JVassie> speaking of which
17:49:33 <JVassie> its possible to force a wagon to keep the same livery no matter the current year?
17:49:38 <JVassie> even if it enters a depot?
17:50:01 *** tokai|mdlx has quit IRC
17:50:03 <andythenorth> liveries are over-rated :P
17:50:04 <andythenorth> 2CC
17:50:07 *** KouDy has quit IRC
17:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: liveries are half the fun...
17:51:02 <JVassie> exactly
17:51:13 <JVassie> beign able to mix and match liveries on traisn in later years is awesome
17:51:41 <andythenorth> I pity the fool
17:51:45 <andythenorth> who has to draw them :P
17:51:48 <andythenorth> drawing sucks
17:52:21 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the "last service" won't work before 1920 indeed
17:52:35 <planetmaker> and after 2090 or so
17:52:47 *** keoz has quit IRC
17:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: if you set parameter to "build date", then it won't change livery on entering depot
17:53:34 <JVassie> woo
17:53:43 <JVassie> and thats for wagons too, correct?
17:53:54 <planetmaker> wagons and engines are no difference really
17:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm quite certain we won't introduce new liveries after 2090 :p
17:54:07 <planetmaker> :-)
17:54:50 <JVassie> :D
17:54:52 <JVassie> awesome
17:56:59 <JVassie> Eddi, another thought
17:57:05 *** amkoroew has quit IRC
17:57:16 <JVassie> how do livery overrides (by locomotive) and livery refits, come into your scheme?
17:57:57 <planetmaker> obviously for the MUs
17:58:08 <planetmaker> Livery refit... as drawn and sensible
17:58:23 <planetmaker> but IMHO that's details TBD later
17:58:44 <JVassie> gotcha
17:59:08 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
17:59:09 <planetmaker> thus the MUs will need special PAX wagons
17:59:49 <planetmaker> but well... maybe :-)
18:00:11 <planetmaker> it's just adding a few more lines
18:00:20 <JVassie> hehe
18:01:41 <planetmaker> I'm looking forward to the long wagon thingy ;-)
18:01:51 <JVassie> whats hte plan re: that?
18:01:57 <JVassie> <Eddi|zuHause> a BR01 is around 24m, and a UIC-Y wagon is also around 24m (UIC-X around 26m). yet the BR01 is twice as long as any wagon
18:01:59 <planetmaker> 1-tile wagons
18:02:22 <planetmaker> eddi has some code for that
18:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause>
18:06:52 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
18:07:24 <JVassie> interesting
18:08:47 <JVassie> this would obviously have to apply to MU engines too
18:09:08 <JVassie> which are more often than not the same (+/- a tiny amount) size as the wagons
18:12:26 <JVassie> 2x size pax cars look weird! :p
18:13:02 *** Mucht has joined #openttd
18:21:32 *** Vikthor has quit IRC
18:30:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC
18:34:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:37:08 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
18:39:14 *** Hyr|away is now known as Hyronymus
18:40:17 *** bryjen has joined #openttd
18:45:03 <Hyronymus> w00t
18:45:12 <Hyronymus> added a TOC to the NML wiki
18:53:31 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
18:58:15 *** goblin has joined #openttd
18:59:46 *** Biolunar has quit IRC
19:02:14 *** a1270 has quit IRC
19:03:53 *** a1270 has joined #openttd
19:05:37 *** Guest5189 is now known as Mazur
19:07:11 * __ln__ saw a flying dutchman
19:13:58 <Hyronymus> lies
19:14:43 <__ln__> honest
19:15:15 * Hyronymus denies everything
19:16:06 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
19:22:52 <__ln__> he was on an F-16
19:25:50 *** TWerkhoven has quit IRC
19:29:43 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
19:38:40 *** Twerkhoven[L] has joined #openttd
19:44:51 *** Mucht has quit IRC
19:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so you didn't actually "see" him while flying.
20:00:03 *** DoubleYou has joined #openttd
20:09:07 *** ctibor has quit IRC
20:10:30 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:10:33 *** ctibor has joined #openttd
20:10:55 <Wolf01> 'night
20:11:04 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
20:17:34 *** m has quit IRC
20:20:59 *** Zonta has joined #openttd
20:21:12 *** Zonta has left #openttd
20:28:21 *** sllide has quit IRC
20:34:01 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:45:50 *** sllide has joined #openttd
20:50:32 *** Hyronymus has quit IRC
20:52:11 *** KouDy has quit IRC
20:52:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:53:00 *** Amis has quit IRC
20:53:43 *** DoubleYou has quit IRC
20:56:54 *** Alberth has left #openttd
21:03:03 *** bodis has quit IRC
21:09:33 *** Twerkhoven[L] has quit IRC
21:17:42 *** sllide has quit IRC
21:22:15 *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:30:00 <dihedral> must have some wrong code somewhere: * null ( has joined #channel
21:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> BR 119 - rumänische Grossdiesellok (23. August) [mit erhöhter Schadenshäufigkeit :cool:] <- lmao :p
21:39:04 *** goblin has quit IRC
21:44:39 <Terkhen> good night
21:45:56 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC
21:52:19 <dihedral> night
21:58:39 *** Mazur has quit IRC
22:16:00 *** Zuu has quit IRC
22:17:50 *** elmz has joined #openttd
22:18:00 *** DayDreamer1 has quit IRC
22:18:20 *** elmz_ has quit IRC
22:18:42 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
22:20:51 *** KritiK has quit IRC
22:21:06 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
22:39:47 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC
22:46:45 *** snorre has quit IRC
22:46:47 *** snorre has joined #openttd
22:54:19 <JVassie> hai guys
23:05:55 *** Mks has quit IRC
23:09:07 *** Mks has joined #openttd
23:18:08 *** Neon has quit IRC
23:40:45 *** Brianetta has quit IRC
23:42:41 *** dfox has quit IRC
23:48:36 *** JVassie has quit IRC
23:53:09 *** Progman has quit IRC