IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-05-16
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08:50:58 <bobingabout> Anyway, I am needing some assistance with programming in general, but I have no idea where i should look... so i came here, because i used to be on the forums a lot
08:51:37 <bobingabout> I learned some Borland turbo C++ years ago... and well, it just doesn't cut it for what i want to do
08:51:54 <bobingabout> moving over to something more modern is a lot more difficult than i thought it would be
08:53:37 <peter1138> are you stuck on the environment or the language?
08:53:52 <peter1138> the environment is just a glorified text editor...
08:53:57 <peter1138> the language is the language
08:54:25 <bobingabout> okay, i'll say mostly the language
08:55:00 <peter1138> well the language hasn't really changed much
08:55:04 <bobingabout> I have MSVC++ Enterprise 2008
08:55:35 <bobingabout> I just looked up a tutorial, and instead of printf(""); etc it was using cout << "";
08:55:39 <bobingabout> i was like... huh?
08:56:03 <bobingabout> maybe i should be using C then
08:56:09 <peter1138> printf will work in c++, mind you
08:56:46 <bobingabout> so a C++ compiler will have no problem compiling a C program?
08:57:49 <bobingabout> I sound like an idiot don't I? X.X
08:58:50 <peter1138> no, just unknowledgable
08:59:12 <bobingabout> should i start with some specific questions that are bothing me?
09:00:47 <bobingabout> okay, firstly, this is my first "big" program i've ever written, so much so that i discovered that there is a 65536 instruction limit to 16bit, i should've guessed this anyway
09:01:14 <bobingabout> this 65536 limit being one of the reasons why i need to move to something better
09:01:33 <bobingabout> anyway, as such, it is the first program i've written that is multi-file
09:02:54 <bobingabout> what goes where is my biggest question. obviously i should make a file that says somthing like "Map.cpp" and anything to do with the map goes in there, but what i need is help with how to do it properly
09:03:18 <bobingabout> currently, i just have map.c for example, then #include map.c in my main program file
09:03:52 <bobingabout> is there a better way to do this?
09:04:08 <bobingabout> i mean, i have to have all my includes in a specific order so not to break anything
09:05:27 <bobingabout> yes, there is a project file that includes multiple files, to actually make it work how it is now i basicly had to tell the project to only compile the main file
09:06:41 <bobingabout> the thing with guides is, you can't ask questions <.>
09:08:04 <bobingabout> i read a guide that says i should put certain parts in a .h file, however, i just can't get that to work for me, i'm probably doing it wrong, so... how would you do it?
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09:18:15 <bobingabout> is it perhaps too early in the morning? i could come back later
09:19:27 <bobingabout> or someone point me in the right direction X) thanks
09:21:14 <bobingabout> there's like... 1 person in there!
09:22:26 <bobingabout> i'll try later, thanks anyway
09:22:53 <bobingabout> Atleast i have another question to ask... C or C++
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09:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> might have told him that #c++ is probably on freenode :p
09:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> #c++ on quakenet might be fun :p
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09:56:58 <peter1138> i think they'd find his questions a bit... well, "read your book" type...
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10:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i never found "read a book" get me anywhere...
10:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to watch someone do it and then i can recreate the steps easily
10:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> back to topic: i never get to transport town goods like mail or food, just because passengers already overcrowd any town network...
10:44:37 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, maybe you need to be using 3 tile long trains... :S
10:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2025.%20Jul%201988.png
10:54:37 <peter1138> i tried to scroll it :(
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11:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't they already announce that a few weeks ago?
11:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or is that a follow-up
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11:09:23 <__ln__> a few weeks ago the recorders were retrieved from water, but it was unknown if their data was readable
11:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png <-- giant screenshot (12MB)
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12:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so... small-village-next-to-big-city is refusing airport... :(
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12:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the land info tool could display the allowed noise level here...
12:34:36 <planetmaker> a patch, a patch!
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12:43:41 <planetmaker> heffer, you're responsible for the Debian port, are you?
12:44:02 <planetmaker> I'm thinking of adding gimp to the build requirements to the base set.
12:44:17 <planetmaker> auto-generating the pngs from the layered sources
12:44:51 <planetmaker> The question is: mandatory requirement or optional one (i.e. like one can re-build the openttd.grf for OpenTTD itself, but one needs not that capability)
12:45:09 <Noldo_> have you checked if something like imagemagick could do it?
12:46:13 <planetmaker> I've no idea how to extract a group of layers from both xcf and psd images with image magic
12:48:46 <planetmaker> Noldo_, I experimented with imagemagick a bit... telling it to keep or convert palettes correctly is and was rather a big pain
12:49:49 <planetmaker> and gimp also has a batch mode, so it's not like you need its gui front-end ;-)
12:50:28 <planetmaker> gimp -i -b - < gimpscript2
12:50:28 <planetmaker> ^^ all I need ;-)
12:52:18 <Noldo_> the syntaxt on that language reminds me of lisp
12:52:21 <planetmaker> thus it has the big advantage of "works already" - and would in principle also allow to do much more advanced scripting than just saving a few layers
12:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: heffer is the redhat/fedora guy, isn't he?
12:52:34 <planetmaker> the gimp script language is derived from lisp, yes
12:52:39 <Noldo_> well, or atleast the numver of parenthesis does
12:52:44 <planetmaker> ah, yes, might be Eddi|zuHause
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12:54:00 <planetmaker> then I should also bother blathijs about what he thinks of adding gimp as a build requirement to the opengfx base package - and whether mandatory or optional
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13:16:16 <Belugas> strange to say, but... feels good to be back to work...
13:16:39 <Belugas> no more physical work for the next 5 days
13:18:07 <Noldo_> what kind of physical work did you have to do then?
13:18:43 <Belugas> rebuilding the basement, at home
13:19:09 <Belugas> plus gardening, under wife's directives, of course :)
13:19:44 <Noldo_> the "projects" seem to pile up when ever you are off from work, don't they?
13:20:11 <Belugas> Well.. the basement reconstruction started back in december
13:20:21 <Belugas> so it's just yet another step
13:20:50 <Belugas> and it's gettnig near the end. i hope all will be finished for july
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13:30:33 <Belugas> salut planetmaker :) et a toi aussi, peter1138
14:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a bug with airplanes
14:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> when an airplane is in a waiting pattern, it reduces speed, but when you skip orders at that point, it doesn't pick up speed anymore
14:06:34 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker what about win or osx planetmaker?
14:06:49 <Chris_Booth> would then need gimp to build opentgfx?
14:13:41 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, you can take one guess on which systems gimp is available
14:14:21 <Chris_Booth> I know gimp planetmaker
14:14:29 <planetmaker> well, where do you see the issue then?
14:15:28 <dihedral> uh uh uh - pick me, pick me, i know i know ....
14:16:10 * planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P
14:17:08 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, fyi: I developed that script on osx
14:17:43 <Chris_Booth> i know gimp planetmaker but why should to have to download gimp to build opengfx?
14:18:02 <planetmaker> because otherwise you don't have means to generate the pngs?
14:18:26 <planetmaker> why would it need gcc? right. Because you otherwise don't have means to generate the nfos
14:19:18 <dihedral> * planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P <- hehe
14:19:23 <Terkhen> it also needs bash and Make
14:20:19 <peter1138> crap, i forgot to disable AIs :S
14:20:27 <peter1138> how can i remove an AI company?
14:20:29 <planetmaker> peter1138, stop_ai is your friend
14:21:22 <peter1138> couple of stray roads left but no major damage yet
14:21:29 <Chris_Booth> I just don't like gimp, so my view is bias planetmaker
14:21:51 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, you don't have to use it. You just need to have it
14:22:32 <planetmaker> it is convenient as it has powerful scripting language for graphics processing
14:23:04 <planetmaker> it does NOT mean you have to use it to create graphics
14:23:32 <planetmaker> But it means that I'll from now on will prefer layered photoshop or gimp files as source ;-)
14:23:55 <planetmaker> for where it makes sense
14:27:47 <planetmaker> it 'simply' is means to save much repetitive work, like creating graphics for different ground tiles. Or generating a snowy and non-snowy version of trees, ...
14:29:23 <Chris_Booth> thats a realy good idea
14:29:23 <Terkhen> or about 80 truck sprites
14:29:33 <Chris_Booth> same with train wagons
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14:29:59 <Chris_Booth> sort all livers for a train in 1 png
14:30:15 <ndujoe1> just found this game the net, enjoy it much
14:31:28 <ndujoe1> will take me awhile to get up to speed, but intriguing scenarios and simulations.
14:32:11 <ndujoe1> i use it from the Puppylinux distribution
14:33:00 <Terkhen> which version of OpenTTD does it have?
14:33:32 <ndujoe1> hold on I will look at the number brb
14:34:01 <Terkhen> don't worry it is just curiosity :)
14:35:24 <peter1138> hmm, yacd's tendancy to send freight across the map instead of locally is annoying
14:37:05 <ndujoe1> must be a complex code to manage all of the interfaces and interactions, written in C++ I presume?
14:37:39 <Terkhen> peter1138: I tried yacd with cargo twice and failed... I'm thinking on enabling it only for passengers, mail, goods and foods next time
14:38:30 <ndujoe1> it is similar to LInCity NG I thought
14:42:55 <michi_cc> peter1138: What's local to you?
14:44:33 <michi_cc> peter1138: economy.cargodest.ind_nearby_dist in tiles^2 (and scaled by 1D map size) controls what is still nearby. And if you change economy.cargodest.ind_chances to "100,100,100" (no possible via the in-game console though), only local destinations will be used if possible.
14:53:36 <peter1138> well, local as in "industries that are closer than the industries that yacd has chosen"
14:54:45 <peter1138> like 60 tiles away instead of 360...
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15:05:20 <ndujoe1> question: is there a generalized multiplayer set whereby one can watch game play to see how it is done without bothering the players online?
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15:06:05 <TWerkhoven> join as a spectator i would say
15:06:18 <Chris_Booth> ndujoe1 yes join as spectator
15:07:42 <ndujoe1> in multiplay games do you usually work as a team in a company or individually just wondering?
15:08:12 <Terkhen> depends, some servers are competitive, others cooperative
15:08:42 <ndujoe1> ic I will learn as a go along :) thanks.
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15:12:04 <planetmaker> yep, joining as spectator is the usual thing
15:12:23 <planetmaker> on the other hand: if you join a MP server, you can just as well found a company and try yourself usually
15:12:42 <planetmaker> except there where cooperative play is asked for ;-)
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15:14:30 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker is there a way to map map edge bigger, like 50 tiles for example?
15:14:47 <Chris_Booth> so I could effectivly make a 400^2 map from a 512^2?
15:15:04 <Yexo> not without changing the source code
15:16:28 <Rubidium> voiding the lot probably does the trick
15:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't a hacked scenario suffice?
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15:25:33 <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause how would I hack one?
15:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> decompress and use hex editor? :p
15:26:06 <Chris_Booth> I just want a 400^2 map to play in r22375
15:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you can produce uncompressed savegames by setting an option in the .cfg
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15:28:21 <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause would that be: savegame_format = ?
15:28:31 <Chris_Booth> set that to decmopress?
15:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "none" or somesuch
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15:31:34 <ChoHag> Why does the clients column in multiplayer have 2 sets of numbers?
15:32:48 <Yexo> their client-id and the company they're part of
15:32:58 <Yexo> try "help clients" int he console
15:33:09 <ChoHag> No, in the list of multiplayer servers.
15:33:50 <Yexo> first is current/maximum players, second set is current/maximum companies
15:34:06 <Yexo> should be two different columns
15:38:18 <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause if I use decompressed saves then use what to red the .sav file?
15:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i already said that
15:40:14 <Yexo> changing the code would be a lot easier
15:41:49 <Chris_Booth> hhm hex editor is just a huge amount of meaning less number now
15:43:16 <Terkhen> I don't think there is a way to hack the savegame to get map sizes that are not a power of two, IIRC the size is actually stored as the exponent
15:43:35 <Yexo> it is, but you could mark a lot of tiles as MP_VOID
15:43:44 <Yexo> which might or might not work correctly
15:44:11 <Chris_Booth> is there anyway I can just get water_borders = 16(which is max) to equal 50?
15:44:35 <Terkhen> that would be an easy code hack
15:44:36 <Yexo> what? you want 16 to equal 50?
15:45:16 <Yexo> the game setting water_borders is a bitset of borders that are water
15:45:22 <Rubidium> isn't water_borders a bitset of the edges that have a watery border and which don't?
15:45:27 <Yexo> it has nothing to do with the amount of water around the map, so 50 wouldn't make sense at all
15:46:00 <Chris_Booth> aaah I thought it as was a tile count not a bitset
15:51:53 <Terkhen> there must be a constant for that somewhere in the code (maybe in map generation); you could increase it
15:55:02 <Chris_Booth> I give up on hex editor Eddi|zuHause its just a huge about of random data which I can't read
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15:55:14 <Chris_Booth> its all seems to be either p or `
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16:39:31 * peter1138 ponders running a YACD server
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16:45:08 <ChoHag> My goods train are stuck in the station.
16:45:24 <ChoHag> Told them to full load.
16:46:28 <peter1138> okay, yacd_2.2 server :D
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16:50:16 <Ammler> I don't think, yacd is playable for MP, coop only :-)
16:50:43 <Ammler> (playable for multiple companies)
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16:56:04 <peter1138> lack of IS doesn't mean it's not playable
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16:56:40 <Ammler> just my personal opinion
16:57:05 <Chris_Booth> it may make an interesting game
16:57:20 <Chris_Booth> you would get real industry comeptition
16:57:25 <Ammler> well, there are severs up, try it :-P
16:57:48 <Chris_Booth> Ammler I can't play 4 openttd games at once
16:57:56 <Ammler> yacd is completely MP stable
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16:59:07 <Chris_Booth> would YACD work is IS2? if I where to merge then?
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16:59:48 <peter1138> i doubt it would be a simple merge, but theoretically there's no problem
16:59:53 <peter1138> other than the payment rates issue...
17:00:14 <Ammler> no need, first yacd then think about next step :-P
17:29:23 <peter1138> didn't enable it in the options :p
17:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22470 /trunk/src/lang/ (luxembourgish.txt romanian.txt):
17:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze
17:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
17:53:38 <peter1138> horrible drawback of not using newgrfs
17:53:55 <peter1138> coal trains that go 80mph on the back of a passenger loco :S
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18:35:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth, would it be usable to you to use psd files as source?
18:35:46 <andythenorth> for others....not sure
18:35:53 <planetmaker> even if it would mean to (also) install gimp?
18:37:02 <andythenorth> well I've been using psd as source since I started using a repo
18:37:11 <andythenorth> the alternatives are impractical for me
18:37:31 <planetmaker> I mean really as source as in the makefile converts it for you into the pngs, and you just define the layers which shall be used for that png
18:38:19 <andythenorth> that would be even better - I have contemplated scripting that in photoshop for FIRS before now
18:38:31 <planetmaker> I've scripted it for gimp. And it can read psd
18:38:34 <andythenorth> why the question?
18:39:10 <planetmaker> and we know how to teach the CF its use, too ;-)
18:39:42 <planetmaker> I'm now implementing it into the makefile(s), but that's working in a preliminary way already, too
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18:44:38 <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you coop guys base network design on methodologies, or do you do it by trial-and-error?
18:45:11 <planetmaker> when building rail tracks?
18:45:26 <andythenorth> yes. some of the tactics you use seem to be similar to lean practices
18:45:26 <planetmaker> It depends on the person probably who suggests the plan to follow for that game
18:47:00 <planetmaker> well... one person working on one thing is the logical thing, isn't it?
18:47:18 <planetmaker> economics of course have to re-discover it and coin a nice buzz-word for it :-P
18:49:19 <planetmaker> but probably I didn't quite grasp that concept yet. So... what is it about - and why does coop seem to use it?
18:49:42 <andythenorth> I've seen some coop games with very short trains
18:51:46 <andythenorth> basically that's using one-piece flow for delivery, rather than large batch delivery
18:52:15 <andythenorth> nvm if it's not obvious - just my day job intruding :)
18:52:17 <planetmaker> ah. Well. I guess it's a matter of what takes our fancy. Limited by map size and terrain
18:52:52 <planetmaker> Too long trains make for HUGE junctions etc without actually adding fun. And more trains are more fun, too
18:53:34 <peter1138> if you do the whole "realism" thing... ;)
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18:53:55 <peter1138> then most junctions are at stations
18:54:19 <peter1138> simple bit of pbs suffices :)
18:54:53 <planetmaker> then yes. And I sometimes do that in my own games. But on the coop maps... hardly :-)
19:20:46 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums.
19:21:02 <DorpsGek> Zuu: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums.
19:21:27 <SmatZ> I haven't seen you talking for long time, so I wondered if you are still here
19:21:40 <SmatZ> but I just missed your comments, it seems :)
19:22:18 <Zuu> I'm still here. I just havn't been here so much recently.
19:22:54 <SmatZ> same here, I am too busy & tired :(
19:23:03 <Zuu> Got to "play" with transportation models at work anyway :-)
19:24:30 <Zuu> Last week I visited a traffic signal conference. That was fun. :-)
19:24:45 <heffer> planetmaker: just saw your highlight. i'd be perfectly fine adding gimp to the BuildRequires from a Fedora standpoint ;) but i think we should test this first
19:26:16 <planetmaker> heffer, good to know :-)
19:26:48 <Rubidium> I guess the main question is whether GIMP works without X
19:26:55 <planetmaker> we (Ammler) ran this afternoon a test with the opensuse build services - which showed that it works fine
19:27:16 <heffer> okay. then our koji builder should be fine too
19:27:58 <heffer> what about checksums? i believe they might be different for each distro then, depending on which signatures gimp places into the files
19:28:25 <planetmaker> good question. I did not yet investigate that
19:28:26 <Rubidium> the final pixels ought to be the same
19:28:27 <ChoHag> I think I know why passengers in YACD keep losing me money.
19:28:37 * Zuu wonders why he don't find a wordpress plugin to fix the rss-feed space problem using a filter function.
19:28:38 <Rubidium> and those are what's use, right?
19:29:04 <planetmaker> different png headers wouldn't matter indeed
19:30:17 <heffer> yes but there's nothing that would choke on different checksums?
19:30:26 <heffer> if so, that'd be fine then :D
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19:30:54 <planetmaker> there should not be, unless the indexed palette would get screwed. Which would be a reason to drop it
19:32:10 <garlet> this is the irc for openttd right ?
19:32:28 <planetmaker> according to the name one might suspect so, yes
19:33:02 <garlet> xD is there any virus in it ?
19:33:32 <planetmaker> yep. A quite viral virus
19:34:12 <planetmaker> Also known as "playing fun" ;-)
19:34:37 <garlet> : o ty but i am serious
19:35:01 <planetmaker> what answer do you expect?
19:35:06 <garlet> after downloading it the next time i downloaded i got the black screen with movable cursor on my laptop...
19:35:10 <heffer> garlet: no. no viruses in the official version from openttd.org
19:35:14 <garlet> D": so yeah i am worried
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19:36:03 <garlet> can anyonehelp me with that D":
19:36:33 <planetmaker> not yet. We know neither version, nor OS, nor... anything else
19:36:59 <planetmaker> nor what constitutes "the next time I downloaded"
19:37:23 <planetmaker> if the next time you used download was from a dubious porn site, I'd worry about that more ;-)
19:37:43 <garlet> lolz nah i don;t download porn xD
19:38:20 <heffer> that's very comforting to know
19:38:27 <garlet> but seriously can anyone help me D": or no where i can get help
19:39:14 <planetmaker> then help us and answer my questions
19:39:17 <heffer> garlet: i assume it's not a virus but that there is something wrong with your setup
19:39:19 <SmatZ> I don't download porn either, I just watch it online :p
19:39:31 <heffer> but based on your information an assumption is all you can expect
19:39:33 <Rubidium> if there were a virus in OpenTTD, it must be an ancient one and it must have been in there for almost three years. You being the first to notice is extremely unlikely
19:40:15 <SpComb> you don't dump malicious payloads into SVN
19:40:29 <SmatZ> garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside
19:40:43 <SmatZ> note that skipping step 1 will result in glass everywhere and broken window
19:40:47 <garlet> D": seriously i got important things there
19:40:52 <Rubidium> as such, it being in the binaries from the official site (I'm assuming you checked the checksums) is significantly less likely than a virus scanner that is incorrectly marking OpenTTD as having a virus
19:41:01 <planetmaker> that makes you value backups more then :-)
19:41:30 <Rubidium> ofcourse, if you like many others, downloaded OpenTTD from a torrent site or something all bets are off
19:41:41 <garlet> i downloaded from main site
19:42:11 <ChoHag> Is michi_cc often around?
19:42:20 <SmatZ> "black screen with a cursor" is hardly a sign of nowadays' virus
19:42:20 <planetmaker> so... still the question is on: what version and OS do you use?
19:42:28 <SmatZ> rather broken video driver
19:42:51 <planetmaker> do you use a screen background changer or alike?
19:43:01 <planetmaker> they're known to cause interferences
19:43:19 <garlet> u mean my background changes after a while?
19:43:32 <ChoHag> SmatZ: If you've ever fixed a computer for a person over the age of 40, you'll know that not quite working right, for any value of right, equals virus.
19:43:59 <ChoHag> Every time somebody I do computer work for phones me up with a problem, they think it's a virus.
19:44:04 <garlet> peacemaker plz keep going
19:44:07 <planetmaker> it's usually their fault, if things go wrong. As they hack the graphics card and don't let other programmes use it normally, especially in full screen.
19:44:38 <garlet> but this came with compt...
19:44:46 <planetmaker> so try to disable that and try openttd again.
19:44:47 <SmatZ> ChoHag: actually, most of times I "fixed" someone's computer, it was full of virii :) I was wondering how they could work with that :)
19:44:58 <garlet> i can;t get to it =--=
19:45:11 <garlet> black screen with moveable mouse after start up
19:45:14 <ChoHag> True, but rarely is it the viruses causing whatever they're actually suffering from.
19:45:51 <garlet> does anyone no any good tech support sites
19:46:19 <ChoHag> That is invariably just a simple I D TEN T issue.
19:46:27 <ChoHag> garlet: I hear www.google.com is good.
19:46:58 <SmatZ> garlet: I have only one idea, try locating your openttd.cfg
19:47:29 <ChoHag> Doesn't alt-enter work?
19:47:45 <SmatZ> blitter = 32bpp-optimized
19:48:01 <SmatZ> win+s maybe opens a search window
19:48:34 <SmatZ> at least, it was a window with a dog in winXP
19:50:23 <garlet> when starting up my compt my is goes to black screen with a mouse and that it
19:50:49 <SmatZ> so you are using different computer now, right?
19:50:55 <SmatZ> your computer is likely broken
19:51:05 <SmatZ> and it has nothing to do with openttd
19:51:28 <SmatZ> garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside
19:51:47 <ChoHag> Find your local geek or geek shop, hand over cash or cake, wait.
19:52:13 <ChoHag> If the cake is good, they'll even keep your old data safe.
19:52:14 <SmatZ> you should indeed be able to find someone to do that for you
19:52:30 <andythenorth> known to be virus free
19:52:45 <SmatZ> mmm reminds me of Portal 2
19:52:48 * andythenorth invokes mac version of godwin's law and runs away
19:52:52 <garlet> noone wants to hack it 2 much work for nothing
19:52:53 <Terkhen> most of the games I play have a mac version already
19:53:16 <Terkhen> I don't know how good their performance is compared to windows, though
19:53:28 <andythenorth> there is an easy non-virus way to DoS mac users
19:53:45 <andythenorth> post on mac sites that 'sudo rm -r *' makes safari run faster
19:53:50 <Terkhen> what, starting a flame about the latest iProduct?
19:54:42 <Terkhen> thanks, my chocolate now sucks in comparison
19:54:48 <Chris_Booth> lol beer watch is so much fun
19:55:10 * andythenorth takes beer from SmatZ and hands him a Chris_Booth instead
19:55:32 <Chris_Booth> that was so not worth the IRC ping :'(
19:55:35 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
19:56:23 <Chris_Booth> get him self a warm pint of guniess
19:57:54 <ChoHag> Does anyone know much about the yacd source?
19:58:09 <Terkhen> michi_cc might have a clue or two
19:58:19 <ChoHag> Yeah but he doesn't seem to be around.
19:58:40 <Terkhen> now that he has been highlighted he will answer when he's here :)
19:59:00 <ChoHag> I tried that earlier and he hasn't popped up.
19:59:04 <ChoHag> I have bugs to fix dammit!
20:00:25 <SmatZ> ChoHag: maybe you can open a bugreport
20:00:39 <ChoHag> I couldn't find anywhere to do that.
20:00:40 <michi_cc> ChoHag: How about you ask a real question I can answer? :)
20:01:01 <ChoHag> How can I stop cargo trying to route back to its originating station?
20:02:02 <ChoHag> See my two posts on the yacd 2.2 thread by way of example.
20:02:28 <andythenorth> ChoHag: it shouldn't be doing that :)
20:02:43 <michi_cc> By lowering the compile-time constant CYapfCostRouteLinkT::LOCAL_PENALTY_FACTOR or by waiting on me for the next release.
20:03:19 <ChoHag> Will I have to wait long? I've got a good game going except for my passenger routes.
20:05:19 <michi_cc> No idea, depends on what else crops up.
20:05:58 <michi_cc> Do check first though if all settings are at the default values.
20:05:58 <ChoHag> Is my theory correct? People want to go from one house to another, both within the cachement area of the same station?
20:06:59 <ChoHag> I'm only able to go on how I think openttd (and yacd) might work as I've not really done much diving into the code yet at all.
20:08:00 <ChoHag> But with an idea to go on I will at least have an aim in mind in my poking around.
20:09:25 <michi_cc> The source and destination tile can be inside the catchment of the same station, but travel back to the same station is strongly discouraged. You might have hit an edge case that requires some tuning of the settings or you simply didn't change some setting when the default changed.
20:10:04 <ChoHag> 2.2 is the only yacd I've played.
20:10:21 <ChoHag> I did play other cargodists though.
20:10:46 <michi_cc> That is pf.yapf.route_* (which should not have been used anywhere outside YACD)
20:14:12 <ChoHag> Also, doesn't it make sense to not allow source and destination to be inside the same station's area?
20:15:11 <ChoHag> Unless they have other, closer stations (eg. I have 3 or 4 bus stops within walking distance of my house)
20:18:38 <peter1138> catchments can overlap
20:20:02 <michi_cc> The settings look alright (assuming that's what the save game actually uses).
20:28:56 <andythenorth> whoever changed the train length display in depot view made the right call :)
20:30:56 <planetmaker> that's old news, but it was our green leaf frog
20:31:18 <andythenorth> thought I'd mention it ;)
20:31:31 <andythenorth> the default train length I am less enamoured with
20:36:39 <andythenorth> michi_cc: bug reports for 1.3 are no longer valid?
20:46:38 <ChoHag> I don't know whether to be impressed or worried.
20:48:35 <ChoHag> She said yesterday that she was bored and I suggested she could play that.
20:48:44 <ChoHag> I didn't think she'd say yes.
20:49:37 <__ln__> there aren't many documented cases of voluntary female players
20:52:06 <andythenorth> CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries
20:52:09 <andythenorth> this may not be wise
20:55:05 <garlet> I WANA PLAY SOOOO BAD!!!
20:56:53 <garlet> anyone willing to give tips on the game
20:58:31 <Belugas> i don't even give a tip to the barman...
20:58:57 <Belugas> time to go home, night!
20:59:04 <ChoHag> Why can't you play it on whichever computer you're chatting?
20:59:28 <garlet> this one has other things wrong with it
20:59:44 <Belugas> ho... another free tip, garlet: the wiki is far more verbose than the guys in this channel :)
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21:05:54 <planetmaker> [22:52] andythenorth CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries <-- why not?
21:06:01 <planetmaker> it may even make sense
21:06:49 <andythenorth> I don't know whether cargo is waiting or not
21:06:53 <andythenorth> looks nice though :P
21:07:06 <planetmaker> ^ I'd consider it 'feature', not 'bug'
21:07:24 <planetmaker> 'looks nice' is a good enough reason to keep it ;-)
21:08:29 <andythenorth> as I have no better idea, it can stay ;)
21:08:55 <planetmaker> one idea might be 'not the same' but 'same style'. Like piles differently arranged or so
21:09:13 <planetmaker> then it is (somewhat) clear that it's not the industry, but it fits the same way nevertheless
21:09:47 * planetmaker wonders about (gimp-2.6:14693): Gimp-Core-CRITICAL **: gimp_image_opened: assertion `GIMP_IS_GIMP (gimp)' failed
21:10:23 <planetmaker> :-) it works as it should. But complains
21:10:25 <frosch123> we should also add such an error to ottd
21:11:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... i'm lacking the ability to filter vehicle lists by cargo type...
21:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> similar to the buy menu
21:12:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I just had exactly the same request :P
21:13:06 <andythenorth> order by cargo capacity is fairly useless
21:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, they all have the same :p
21:13:33 <planetmaker> not quite, at least in buy menu
21:13:37 <Zuu> Apart from being slow or getting GTK-problems, I never had any serious problems with GIMP.
21:13:57 <planetmaker> damn similar words :S
21:14:03 <Zuu> Oh, and the tablet problems..
21:14:20 <planetmaker> Zuu: it's not a problem. It's just a funky message...
21:14:33 <planetmaker> without apparent consequence. That's the odd thing
21:15:02 <Zuu> Interesting assertion by the way :-)
21:24:07 * andythenorth needs to stop playing YACD and ...go to sleep
21:24:43 <ChoHag> andythenorth: Can you see if your yacd games have the same passenger routing problems mine do?
21:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "ships getting old" is a weird concept...
21:25:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why?
21:25:09 <ChoHag> Ships exist outside time?
21:25:31 <andythenorth> ChoHag: my yacd game is 1.3 and tracking where PAX go would be way to hard
21:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> my impression is that ships should have very long lifespans compared to trains or aircraft
21:26:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: FISH ones are quite long
21:26:25 <Terkhen> wasn't the last version 2.something?
21:26:36 <andythenorth> my savegame is too nice
21:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, but i constantly get spammed with "ship is really old" messages after 50 years...
21:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't bother to replace them :p
21:27:41 <andythenorth> turn off the message
21:27:44 <andythenorth> turn on autoreplace
21:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i patched too many grfs already ;)
21:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "track planning" is useless.
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21:44:06 <planetmaker> garlet: we cannot fix your computer(s), if you can't even start your OS. And speechless dots... won't help there either ;-)
21:44:08 <planetmaker> good night Terkhen
21:52:42 <planetmaker> a good reason to spam this channel with nonsense? I don't think so
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22:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... autoreplace not working.
22:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i have trains consisting of 4 times BR 515 (single units), and have ordered to replace them with BR 612 (double units)
22:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and it says "train too long after replacement"
22:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess "wagon removal" doesn't do "engine removal".
22:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i just saw the "euro gets introduced" newspaper for the first time...
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23:15:34 * Zuu will have to wait until the UK introduces euro bofore seeing that newspaper. (I always use pounds in my OpenTTD games)
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