IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-05-11
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01:31:32 <Zmapper> Is there a master ban list anywhere?
01:31:56 <Zmapper> Cause we have a person who the admin has banned 2 of his IP adresses and he still keeps coming back.
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03:07:58 <lugo> well english is kind of mandatory in this channel i guess
03:09:58 <lugo> though there might be a chance your question is understood :)
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05:57:31 <planetmaker> alx: provided you want an answer: it's even more mandatory to actually *ask* the question instead of asking whether the can be help or anyone knows or... other meta-questions
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09:14:01 * peter1138 grumbles at compiz being shit
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09:26:35 <ChoHag_> Are cars actually usable as a taxi service?
09:27:51 <planetmaker> depends on the definition of 'usable' and 'taxi service'
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09:32:08 <ChoHag_> Usable as in passengers get in and out, taxi as in they pay and car as in ... car.
09:32:38 <planetmaker> generally cars will have too low capacity to be of any use within ttd world
09:32:45 <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: you could make a grf of a taxi, make lots of annoying 1 way streets and dead end, then give you taxi no orders this would mean that the taxi would always be lost
09:32:45 <ChoHag_> I need to build something before the LAs get pissed off with me, but the village is too small for buses.
09:32:49 <planetmaker> Usable as eye candy: yes
09:33:23 <Chris_Booth> ChoHag_: then you need trees
09:33:26 <planetmaker> ChoHag_: why would the size of the vehicle be bothersome
09:33:41 <Chris_Booth> delete all the trees around the village and replant them
09:33:43 <ChoHag_> Well I don't want to lose money.
09:33:49 <Chris_Booth> and presto the town will love you
09:33:58 <ChoHag_> Chris_Booth: Oh no, they're happy, I just want them to stay that way.
09:34:16 <ChoHag_> I'm trying to connect passengers in all the towns I pass railways by/through.
09:34:31 <ChoHag_> ie. all the towns in which the LAs notice me.
09:34:48 <ChoHag_> That way I'm hoping my transport network will grow in a moderately realistic fashion.
09:34:55 <Chris_Booth> then make a bus route, and transfer the passengers to the main station
09:35:20 <Chris_Booth> realism? what is this realism?
09:35:37 <ChoHag_> They don't want to send any passengers to places I want to go.
09:35:41 <Chris_Booth> sounds strange to me
09:35:49 <ChoHag_> Game => Fun => Vaguely realistic.
09:36:38 <planetmaker> then just connect a bus terminal to your train station and add two stops to other destinations within the town and have a single bus circle
09:37:00 <Chris_Booth> yacd is cargodist?
09:37:01 <ChoHag_> OK well yes that'll happen eventually.
09:37:14 <ChoHag_> But in the meantime, will passengers use cars?
09:37:26 <Chris_Booth> the game doesn't have cars
09:37:30 <Chris_Booth> unless you make them
09:37:39 <ChoHag_> Will passengers use cars if I have a cars GRF?
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09:37:49 <Terkhen> there is a generic cars newgrf, passengers will use them but they are not profitable
09:37:56 <Terkhen> well, they are, but not much
09:38:14 <ChoHag> That's not a problem. I have coal and oil if I want profitable.
09:38:23 <Chris_Booth> what is yacd Terkhen?
09:38:31 <ChoHag> Very few towns are currently big enough to make passengers profitable.
09:38:48 <planetmaker> ChoHag: passengers are profitable, if you ship them to the station
09:38:52 <Terkhen> Chris_Booth: check the forum thread
09:38:55 <planetmaker> they'll want to go to big towns for sure ;-)
09:39:22 <Chris_Booth> got a link Terkhen? i am lazy and can't be bothered to search tt-forum
09:39:39 <ChoHag> They'll become more profitable in the 90s or 2000s.
09:40:03 <ChoHag> In the meantime, keep the LAs happy, make towns grow with basic passenger services, ship raw materials to make $big_bucks.
09:40:24 <Terkhen> yes, I use cars mostly for keeping towns happy in small towns
09:40:27 <planetmaker> ChoHag: in my yacd game passengers were what got me going
09:40:52 <planetmaker> making more money than industries
09:41:06 <planetmaker> but I started in two big towns and build a railway line in between
09:41:12 <planetmaker> then the other towns followed
09:41:18 <ChoHag> Oh well I'll run an experiment in this village and see how good my real life car is in the game.
09:41:22 <planetmaker> as usual small villages got service last ;-)
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10:59:21 <ChoHag> The economy is going to hell.
10:59:42 <ChoHag> Does it have trends and is there a console command to view/set it?
11:00:06 <planetmaker> but there's a smooth and a 'normal' economy setting
11:00:19 <planetmaker> but whether it goes up or down... is nothing one can influence
11:01:24 <ChoHag> What does the steady/fluctuating difficulty setting do then?
11:01:54 <planetmaker> the size of an individual change
11:02:04 <planetmaker> 10% change vs. 50% change or so
11:03:01 <ChoHag> Well it needs to go up dammit! Only 4 industries have production > 100.
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12:32:14 <Yexo> and when it goes up/down
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13:35:30 <ChoHag> SWMBO has gone. I can get back to the important task of building train networks.
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14:23:09 <Belugas> quite a riff you came up with, peter1138
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14:52:48 <ChoHag> Why is my vehicle autorenew not working?
14:53:20 <ChoHag> The same vehicle is still available and I have loads of money.
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14:55:38 <planetmaker> no access to depot?
14:56:01 <ChoHag> Even after I send the vehicle for servicing myself it won't replace.
14:56:09 <ZirconiumX> have you turned auto-renew on in advanced settings?
14:56:13 <ChoHag> Breakdowns are off, if that matters.
14:56:25 <ChoHag> It's on. It's been toggled to try resetting it.
14:56:39 <ZirconiumX> how old re the vehicles
14:58:10 <ChoHag> Some buses are 40 years old.
14:58:27 <ChoHag> As breakdowns are off it's not been urgent.
14:58:56 <planetmaker> Did you enable autorenew for all vehicles?
14:59:43 <planetmaker> you can ask it to only renew a group
14:59:53 <planetmaker> depends where you ask
15:00:22 <planetmaker> which group window: general list. or single groups
15:00:59 <ChoHag> There is no renew option if all/ungrouped, only for each individual group.
15:01:25 <ChoHag> No I tell a lie. That's replace in each individual group, not renew.
15:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> renew is a global option in advanced settings
15:03:14 <ChoHag> Well it's not working.
15:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you have money? your trains find the depot? you waited at least one full service interval? you excluded groups from autoreplace?
15:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> does it work when you manually send the train to depot?
15:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i actually tried autorenew lately...
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16:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "133.7 GiB free"
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16:40:18 <andythenorth> would it be useful to show loading speed of vehicles in gui?
16:41:14 <planetmaker> at least in purchase list
16:41:56 <andythenorth> newgrf can handle that
16:43:06 <planetmaker> hm... care to write a patch?
16:43:40 <andythenorth> right now my baby is trying to eat the magsafe so probably a bad time :P
16:47:08 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Muse?
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17:00:53 * andythenorth is finding ferry boats confusing
17:01:31 <andythenorth> the capacity varies wildly, not in relation to size
17:04:49 <andythenorth> the same 40m long ferry might carry 20 pax or 1,000 pax
17:05:33 <andythenorth> depends on licenses, where it's operated, whether it's commuter or long distance, what life saving equipment it needs, and whether it's standing, seating, or seats+tables
17:05:43 <andythenorth> none of which is relevant for fun gameplay :P
17:06:26 <Terkhen> 1000 persons on 40m? :D
17:07:41 <andythenorth> well maybe a few less
17:07:41 <perk11> it should cary prisoners
17:08:41 <Terkhen> passengers as bulk cargo?
17:12:09 * andythenorth has design ponder
17:12:51 <andythenorth> do the vehicle ferries need to be vehicle ferries?
17:13:46 <Terkhen> what does imply being a vehicle ferry?
17:14:12 <andythenorth> it's (a) got a vehicle deck drawn in the sprites (b) the PAX capacity is lower than you'd expect for the size of boat
17:14:56 <andythenorth> (c) it can refit to some amount of freight cargo
17:15:10 <Terkhen> oh, I remember someone complaining about that, I didn't pay much attention
17:15:22 <Terkhen> IMO it does not matter much
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17:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle ferries need to load actual vehicles :p
17:43:42 <Terkhen> if livestock can be considered as both actual livestock and milk, passengers can be considered as vehicles too
17:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> an ox can carry 1 person or 0.3 tons of cargo?
17:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle: shepherd dog. can "carry" 30 sheep
17:47:10 <Terkhen> can be refitted to carry 200 fleas
17:48:11 <George> frosch123: Are you here?
17:48:36 <George> A question about FS#3281
17:50:28 <George> I'm currenty again trying to create a new movement model for ARVs and I'm in lack of required vars :)
17:51:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had some 6x stuff for trains lying around somewhere
17:51:44 <George> I need a var like var 45 that gives information about the curvature info 2 vehs back\forward
17:52:23 <George> Eddi|zuHause: the only var6x on the wiki is var 60
17:52:36 <George> What new vars do you have?
17:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, was a patch...
17:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> searching for it right now
17:56:41 <Terkhen> the testing binary is still there :P
17:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> George: i'd be glad if you could give some opinion on whether it works at all, or what additional data you think is needed
17:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, whether frosch123's suggestion of bitstuffing it all into one variable would be sufficent
17:59:04 <George> Why didn't you PM me about it? I would test it 5 months earlyer!
17:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... PM didn't cross my mind ;)
17:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> will do that next time ;)
17:59:42 <George> I just missed that topic :(
17:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> George: but wouldn't you get an email if a comment to FS task was added?
18:01:49 <George> Well, it should be that way ... But I do not see such e-mail. May be it went to spam on the server :(
18:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, patch doesn't run away... ;)
18:03:25 <andythenorth> too many boats in the world
18:03:31 <andythenorth> not all can fit in the game well :P
18:03:43 <George> Eddi|zuHause: >anyway, patch doesn't run away... ;) ?
18:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> George: i mean it doesn't get lost just because you test it 5 months later
18:06:03 <George> and could you compile it based on the more recent version?
18:06:41 <Terkhen> not now, I'm on linux right now
18:06:48 <Terkhen> I could do it tomorrow
18:10:47 <Terkhen> what version, 1.1.0 or trunk?
18:14:28 <George> Eddi|zuHause: You wrote just my attempts!
18:15:00 <George> while I was thinking about 22 deg
18:15:17 <George> why do you think 15 deg is better/
18:15:57 <George> But definitly I need you patch to provide it
18:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> George: in most situations, you have the vehicle in front turned, and in the next step, the vehicle itself turned and the next vehicle is still old direction. with 22.5° graphics, both situations need same graphics. it's difficult to prevent the vehicle from "jumping" at that point
18:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> with 15°, you have different graphics for each
18:20:31 <George> Hm. in my model I did not expect that problem. I have to think about it
18:21:21 <George> So, could you compile a win32 exe with this diff an the last nighty/stable?
18:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't compile for windows.
18:24:50 <George> Did Terkhen compiled it?
18:25:04 <Terkhen> yes, I was asking which version do you need
18:25:43 <George> Terkhen: Could you compile the patch with the latest nighty/stable (what is easier for you)
18:26:11 <Terkhen> either is easy, but I can't do it until tomorrow
18:26:25 <George> Ok, I'll wait till you can
18:27:31 <George> In case nighty is as easy as stable using the latest nighty fits better
18:31:02 <andythenorth> is there any point in the FISH passenger boats refitting to all cargos?
18:31:11 <andythenorth> should I limit them to express cargos or something?
18:32:23 <andythenorth> the thinking was that ships can pretty much carry anything
18:32:24 <planetmaker> Well... Personally I like refittability - even when there are good arguments for your suggestion
18:32:54 <andythenorth> then again...box cars and flat trucks can carry pretty much anything, but we don't generally allow them to 'refit all'
18:33:32 <planetmaker> But I adjust cargo capacity to encourage other wagons
18:33:44 <planetmaker> which are dedicated to the other cargos
18:34:09 <planetmaker> and obviously I disallow passengers for box cars. Illegal immigration is not my business ;-)
18:35:42 <planetmaker> hm... every index of the colour palette is valid :-)
18:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> George: posted a slightly updated patch with new variable 64
18:35:52 <planetmaker> hm... wrong channel :-P
18:36:57 <Terkhen> consider myself informed :P
18:37:02 <George> So he would compile with the new version
18:37:11 <Terkhen> tomorrow I'll pick up the latest patch in the task and compile it against trunk
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18:51:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: is there a reason to limit the refit capability of the ships?
18:51:44 <andythenorth> not particularly
18:52:57 <andythenorth> it's a two-step case
18:53:06 <andythenorth> the vehicle ferries should show something when loaded
18:53:27 <andythenorth> so what should they show when loaded with freight?
18:54:36 <andythenorth> for each cargo type?
18:54:42 <andythenorth> and from which RV set?
18:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a stupid idea :p
18:56:37 <planetmaker> not a bad idea, I think
18:56:45 <planetmaker> you have enough heqs ;-)
18:57:00 <planetmaker> ships can't use child sprites...
18:57:33 <andythenorth> but for freight...?
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19:08:41 <andythenorth> also - if the PAX ships refit to freight, should the freight ships refit to PAX?
19:09:17 <andythenorth> and why can't the freight ships refit to mail?
19:09:39 * andythenorth just codes it :P
19:21:53 * andythenorth checks newgrf spec :P
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19:44:09 <andythenorth> distributing FIRS petrol with YACD is interesting
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20:09:02 <andythenorth> I have trains and ships hauling wood from A to B
20:09:06 <andythenorth> and wood from B to A
20:09:21 <andythenorth> backloads = profit :D
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20:39:58 <SmatZ> KDE 4.6 changed the order in which windows are switched when you use mouse wheel on the task bar
20:40:03 <SmatZ> to the more logical one
20:40:17 <SmatZ> now I am just confused, because I always switch in the wrong direction :p
20:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the last change to the task bar i noticed was horrible...
20:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't actually use the mouse wheel on the taskbar, though. so i haven't noticed any change there
20:47:53 <SmatZ> I didn't know you can have two rows in the taskbar
20:48:25 <frosch123> wasn't that the default at some point?
20:50:07 <SmatZ> there are two rows in KDE 3.5
20:50:43 <SmatZ> I have been using 4.x on my main computer for so ong time I forgot how KDE 3 was better :P
20:50:52 <SmatZ> there was usable desktop
20:51:03 <SmatZ> I don't have anything on the desktop in KDE 4
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20:54:37 * andythenorth needs a pipeline :P
20:55:02 <frosch123> SmatZ: i guess i did not use kde 4 for more than 24 hours in total
20:55:09 * Rubidium hands andythenorth a pipeline from his CPU
20:55:26 <frosch123> do you have any spare ones?
20:55:58 <Rubidium> can't run both cores at full capacity at the same time for long
20:56:06 <andythenorth> it's not very good at moving oil to my dock though :P
20:56:34 <Rubidium> as then it'll happily go into overheat protection :(
20:57:27 <glx> tried cleaning or new thermal paste ?
20:58:20 <Rubidium> glx: not personally, but the guys(!) fixing stuff under warranty did
20:58:42 <glx> I don't call that fixing ;)
20:58:42 <Rubidium> guess I should bother calling them again
21:01:43 * andythenorth wants to be able to pay a fee to an industry and have YACD roll a dice for changing destinations
21:02:57 <Yexo> andythenorth: that's too easily abused when you have competitors (either AI or multiplayer)
21:04:22 <Rubidium> oh... good news... looks like they're not selling the model I've got anymore, then maybe I can get them sending me a comparable replacement model (hoping they think the same about comparable as me)
21:04:38 <Rubidium> s/comparable/similar/ ?
21:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: don't they have some spare (or "repaired") in stock for replacement?
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21:10:43 * andythenorth should really upgrade to latest YACD
21:10:45 <Rubidium> I hope not, as it's basically the model that's defective; it fails with getting out the heat
21:10:51 <andythenorth> but unpatching is always a hassle :P
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21:42:16 <Yexo> playing with YACD is fun, but I find it totally impossible to transport all local passengers
21:42:55 <Yexo> I'm not using any newgrfs, so only the default buses are usable
21:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> passenger generation is way too high
21:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (this was also true for any previous destination patch)
21:45:18 <Vikthor> I find it hard even with trams for large cities
21:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> trams are ok, if you separate them with timetables properly
21:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i find inter-city trains much harder
21:46:01 <Yexo> seperating them without any autoseperation patch is too much work
21:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you build like a 6-line main track, with trains every 2 tiles
21:46:19 <Vikthor> Yes thats another problem, too much micromanagement
21:47:13 <Vikthor> to set up all lines to smallest villages and maintain them well serviced and profitable
21:48:13 <Yexo> making profit isn't hard at all, at least with passengers
21:48:22 <Yexo> haven't tried cargo yet, that's probably more difficult
21:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS cargo is pretty difficult, as initial production is fairly low in the first place, and then it's split up between several target industries
21:49:14 <Yexo> in every town I've connected so far I'm only transporting around 25% of all possible passengers, and my network is already overflowing
21:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause> airplanes are hopeless :p
21:50:03 <Chris_Booth> Airplane sucked in CargoDist as well
21:50:09 <Chris_Booth> since they where so fast
21:50:16 <Yexo> the capacity of airplanes is too low
21:50:20 <Chris_Booth> but couldn't handle the capacity
21:50:31 <Chris_Booth> even with A380s and big airports
21:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the airports block too much, planes spend most time circling
21:51:44 <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: I am playing with FIRS and I have failed to produce anything like working eceonomy with all the supplies and stuff needed, I make most money from pax and mail and some fish and food
21:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: ignore the supplies at first, get the primaries connected to the secondaries
21:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> then set up some sort of circular route with a train carrying supplies
21:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i mostly put a supplies wagon to the primary cargo trains right from the start, then i can send the roundtrip-train also to the secondary station and it will finally pick up the links
21:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so if i have like a livestock train, then i put a farm supplies wagon to it. it goes to the stockyard, drops off the livestock, picks up a share of the farm supplies, and goes back
21:55:02 <Vikthor> well, I probably selected too large map, without supplies primary production is too low and when split to several dests across map, I can't make enough profit on that(too far for RV, too low production for train)
21:55:41 <Yexo> adding a single supplies wagon to primary cargo trains is a good idea
21:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the ratio between primaries and secondaries is probably not right
21:58:49 <Chris_Booth> is YACD the big new thing then?
21:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i played a small map, 128x256, because with the prospect of no savegame compatibility, i wanted to get through the game quickly
22:00:12 <Chris_Booth> that has always annoyed me, why if I merge my branch into a new trunk will it not open an old brached saved?
22:00:32 <Chris_Booth> since the old trunk saves can be opened
22:00:38 <Chris_Booth> but not old branches
22:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth: because the savegame version is linear
22:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot merge two history lines, you must choose one. either old branch or old trunk
22:01:40 <Chris_Booth> so old trunk + new branch would work?
22:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. if the patcher makes the effort. which they usually don't.
22:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the MiniIN had a system in place where it could load at least the last few branch versions and all trunk versions
22:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs additional maintenence effort
22:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> which is taken away the attention from developing the patch
22:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so the patch author can't be blamed for not pursuing it
22:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a patchpack author could do it. ChillCore tried with his patch pack
22:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can tell, he made a few mistakes inbetween, though ;)
22:05:40 <ChoHag> Can the horns from the Generic Cars GRF be turned off?
22:05:51 <ChoHag> Because bloody hell that's annoying.
22:06:01 <planetmaker> turn off all sound
22:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> decompile the grf and remove them?
22:06:03 <Yexo> either turn all sounds off or don't use that grf
22:06:13 <ChoHag> Thought it might be something like that.
22:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> did the readme tell anything about parameters?
22:12:08 <planetmaker> should be the first thing to consult ;-)
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23:24:45 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
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23:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "heavy earthquake in southern spain"
continue to next day ⏵