IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-23
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00:00:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r22271 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r22258) [FS#4562]: cargo en-route display in station was broken
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10:57:05 * andythenorth_ ponders ways to visually indicate station ratings
10:57:21 <andythenorth_> showing cargo waiting is a proxy for bad service
10:57:32 <andythenorth_> but there could be alternatives
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11:02:31 <andythenorth_> maybe a crane where the jib angle varies according to station rating
11:02:39 <andythenorth_> may be a little phallic
11:03:48 <andythenorth_> on the station tiles itself?
11:04:17 <andythenorth_> a tower of lights, more are lit if service is good?
11:04:44 <andythenorth_> something animated which moves ever faster if rating is good?
11:05:16 <andythenorth_> they'd be like 1 pixel each, max
11:08:17 <Wolf01> the whole station: bad rating -> rusty infrastructures, broken benches, creepy buildings with unsafe parts... good ratings -> the station looking a bit better... excellent ratings -> shiny new station
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12:46:40 <flitz> hi, what would be the easiest method to obtain all vehicles from a given group ? as far as I found out the relationship is vehicle->belongsToGroup not group->hasVehicleList
12:47:50 <Yexo> in the c++ code you mean?
12:50:24 <flitz> my goal is to paint all vehicles in a group into a gui-window, I have compared how this is done in the depot-gui and the group-gui
12:54:46 <Yexo> I'd copy the code from the group-gui if I were you
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12:55:33 <Yexo> but basically it comes down to: FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) if (v->IsPrimaryVehicle() && v->group_id == group_id) { do_something_with_vehicle; }
12:56:24 <flitz> copying would involve deriving my gui from BaseVehicleListWindow, right now I inherit from just Window
12:56:47 <flitz> because BaseVehicleListWindow seems to have an vehicles[] data field
12:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so what's the problem with that?
12:58:23 <flitz> I thought there might be an easier way as changing the inheritance gives a lot of errors right now :)
12:59:03 <Yexo> inheriting from BaseVehicleListWindow is the proper way
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13:04:34 <flitz> most convenient right now would be if I could use BaseVehicleListWindow like a nested widget
13:06:16 <flitz> but I will just extend it to make it look like might gui looks right now
13:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like you should rethink your architecture
13:17:21 <flitz> it's a bit difficult to find out where and how vehicles are stored exactly, even with the doxygen files
13:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why FOR_ALL_VEHICLES() exists
13:18:15 <flitz> what I'm not sure of right now is which vehicles are in the vehicles[] field of the BaseVehicleListWindow for example, all vehicles of a company or only of a specifiv group ?
13:18:36 <flitz> ok I will look into this then
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13:35:44 <Yexo> flitz: it depends on a little structure VehicleListIdentifier, which you probably should set in the constructor of your window
13:35:46 <Belugas> bien le bonjour, planetmaker :)
13:36:01 <Yexo> documentation on that is indeed somewhat lacking, but GenerateVehicleSortList in vehiclelist.cpp should make it more clear
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16:25:16 <supermop> which project is occupying your time at the moment?
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17:23:49 <andythenorth> industry able to specify terraforming => useful
17:23:58 <supermop> pondering the true nature of firs?
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17:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: are you planning something for the industries that don't need level territory? like scrap yards could use adapting their graphics to the territory, while mines could use custom foundation graphics.
17:27:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: currently filed under 'life is too short'
17:28:59 * andythenorth thinks about petrol station
17:29:10 <andythenorth> in FIRS it has large storage tank
17:29:14 <andythenorth> IRL that's not so
17:29:20 <andythenorth> but it makes it easier to see in town
17:29:33 <andythenorth> anyone really *hate* the tanks?
17:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i wasn't really fond of the petrol station graphics the last time i looked
17:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so i think: "yes"
17:30:33 <andythenorth> they are changing now
17:30:45 <andythenorth> I am making an initial improvement
17:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> petrol station tanks are usually underground
17:30:53 <andythenorth> to get an idea of possibilities
17:31:11 <peter1138> They have LPG tanks sometimes.
17:31:32 <peter1138> But yeah, petrol/diesel tanks are underground.
17:31:36 <andythenorth> I'm not worried about reality
17:31:42 <andythenorth> it's more 'does it look good'?
17:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i kind of liked the TTRS/ECS petrol station, it just needs adapting to the neighbouring road
17:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's probably not FIRS-style
17:37:37 <supermop> I'd rather not have a big 'petrol' sign
17:38:00 <peter1138> next to the station?
17:38:08 <peter1138> yeah, those tanks look more like grain silos
17:38:09 <supermop> maybe a color stripe on the edge of the canopy would help you see it
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17:38:25 <andythenorth> the canopy is getting redrawn
17:38:37 <andythenorth> in fact, all of it is getting redrawn ;)
17:38:37 <supermop> like the part of a BP canopy that was green, on the early 90s style BPs
17:38:54 <supermop> or that is yellow and red on a shell station
17:38:59 <peter1138> you need one of those price signs
17:39:00 <supermop> i was going to say that
17:39:14 <supermop> sign yes, but no visible text
17:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it's currently the worst looking piece in FIRS
17:39:37 <supermop> i dont mid it, but it is drab
17:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i really hate it
17:42:23 <supermop> Ha i like how they are changing that guy's tire right at the pump
17:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: one thing, the paths under the roof should be parallel to the road
17:45:06 <supermop> not in an american station
17:45:33 <supermop> i understand if its a european centric set
17:45:46 <andythenorth> I might go road-sensitive
17:45:50 <andythenorth> or I might not bother
17:45:56 <andythenorth> depends if I draw a better ground tile or not
17:46:03 <supermop> plenty of gas stations have pumps perpendicularly to road
17:46:21 <supermop> majority of stations since 70s in the US
17:47:17 * andythenorth sees little point in worrying about that
17:47:26 <andythenorth> the road doesn't connect to the gas station anyway :P
17:48:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: still the ground tile could use some pseudo-road
17:52:42 <supermop> oh man andy, you got in full on lego town nostalgia here
17:53:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and which road set should I reference? :P
17:54:08 * andythenorth thinks of new industry flag: 'can overbuild road'
17:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try to make it non-specific
17:54:30 <Wolf01> here we have a gas station with a merge before split link to the road which is really annoying :P
17:54:40 <andythenorth> unfortunately, due to the unique way your bits are funded, road + industry on same tile is a no-go
17:54:44 <andythenorth> can we have more bits please?
17:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: we need newairports for custom road paths through objects/industries
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17:57:03 * andythenorth ponders crazy bit stuffing schemes
18:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no bitstuffing needed, the paths would be presented via callback
18:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> in a "light" version giving entrance and exit, for pathfinder use, and a "heavy" version giving the state machine for vehicle movement
18:12:14 <andythenorth> we need new airports for a lot of things :(
18:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder part is irrelevant for airports, but i think quite relevant for road stations
18:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the state machine is the only thing not implemented for airports.
18:16:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you hate the petrol station tanks?
18:16:33 * andythenorth is thinking of keeping them :P
18:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that üart the most
18:17:32 <andythenorth> does make it look like a truck depot
18:17:41 <andythenorth> how else do you know to deliver petrol :P
18:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what's missing is a building for the shop, etc.
18:19:16 <andythenorth> adding a proxy version now
18:19:22 <andythenorth> it had tanks attached :P
18:19:29 <andythenorth> borrowed from the aluminium mill
18:19:42 <andythenorth> I'll improve it later
18:20:53 <supermop> andy do you accept drawings as suggestions for layouts?
18:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and if a petrol station had above-ground taks, they would likely be lying tanks, not standing ones
18:26:41 <supermop> whoa there used to lego Exxon stations?
18:33:54 <supermop> yeah i remember the shell
18:34:13 <supermop> but exxon was either way before my time, or not in my market
18:34:27 <supermop> i assume due to the oil spill
18:35:55 * andythenorth finds the foamer video he was seeking
18:36:04 <andythenorth> that train boots it
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18:36:34 <andythenorth> funny how other people were looking for it this week and found it
18:39:13 <supermop> guy needs a faster miata
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22272 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt:
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 3 changes by gjannema
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20:12:01 <andythenorth> what's more 'default' for a station?
20:12:06 <andythenorth> a crane or a small building?
20:12:09 <andythenorth> (freight station)
20:12:58 <supermop> i think there would usually be at least a shed or prefab thing even in the most remote loading areas
20:13:27 <supermop> as unless the train crew is doing the loading themselves, there would have to be some people around
20:14:13 <__ln__> actually i have a suggestion related to stations, but i doubt anyone cares.
20:15:18 <supermop> lets hear it, if andy doesnt care, i might for my set
20:16:41 <__ln__> well, a station with 2 or more tracks always has the roof on its platforms... while in the middle of nowhere, or on an industrial station it's quite unlikely there would be a roof.
20:17:27 <__ln__> so it could be left undrawn if the station isn't near enough to a town to accept passengers, for example.
20:18:14 <supermop> sounds like an idea for ogfx+ stations
20:18:22 <krinn> most freight station have a roof too, but are in fact more a building than a station
20:18:42 <krinn> freight leave under rain is generally lost freight
20:18:43 <supermop> which is likely not going to happen until nml supports stations
20:19:05 <__ln__> krinn: except if it's wood
20:19:12 <krinn> generally means some exceptions exist guys :)
20:19:42 <krinn> but even freight who doesn't care about elements, still care about not been stolen
20:19:50 <krinn> that's why building are use
20:20:00 <supermop> again, coal, wood, steel
20:20:23 <supermop> if you can carry that off with you, you can probably break into the building
20:20:55 <krinn> it's easier to protect a closed building
20:21:40 <krinn> building gave more benefits: hidding what you do in it is also good for the business
20:21:49 <krinn> not to show what you are doing with living animals
20:22:19 <krinn> not to show how/what you are doing to your opponent (hmmm, better word for that, but others companies that do like you)
20:22:36 <krinn> protect from thief and elements...
20:23:03 <krinn> as you see, except when conditions are special (like gas) open station for freight are bad vs closed ones
20:23:31 <__ln__> a train can be over half a mile long, that requires a long building to drive it in
20:24:04 <krinn> must be why the building have entry & exit with rails :)
20:27:19 <krinn> sample here, i'm you could find one opened too, but the hangar is there for that
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20:30:05 <supermop> that looks like a passenger station
20:30:30 <krinn> concept is a bit the same
20:31:07 <krinn> but generally passenger station cover the "waiting/business" part where passenger wait the trains & buy tickets
20:31:22 <krinn> and you have a small roof for lines where passengers wait for incoming trains
20:31:48 <krinn> here you have only the rail cover for loading freight
20:31:57 <krinn> and no station to wait/business tickets...
20:36:01 <krinn> you should also see always many rails uncovered where to store waiting trains... when a passenger stations have limited (because closer generaly in town) rails number
20:49:39 <Chris_Booth> krinn do you want a grf similar to that layout?
20:50:53 <krinn> didn't ask anything for one time :)
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20:51:57 <Chris_Booth> sorry should have read the convo
20:56:29 <krinn> someone can point me to an url for suggestions, i've heard one exist but no idea where it is
20:57:24 <krinn> i'm looking in it, but the thread is not sticky so
20:58:07 <krinn> oh :) there's a suggestion section in the forum
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