IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-02-27
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00:13:27 <krinn> good night
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00:45:34 <supermop> hello
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02:03:22 <rane> how do i sell all trains inside one depot?
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02:07:04 <Markk> rane: Press the "Sell all trains in depot"-button.
02:07:15 <Markk> Third from top.
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02:29:27 <DanMacK> Hey all
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02:53:47 <Mazur> Noy exactly a thrilling night, this one.
02:54:11 <DanMacK> Never is... lol
02:54:24 <Mazur> Public Server doen for maintenance, only Stable is up.
02:54:35 <Mazur> And here people sleep at night.
02:54:43 <Mazur> Unlike myself.
02:55:24 <DanMacK> Well, it's only 9:52 here :P
02:55:47 <Mazur> 03:55:40 here.
02:56:05 <Mazur> So your clock is about 3 minutes slow.
02:56:09 <DanMacK> lol
02:56:12 <Mazur> :-)
02:57:02 <Mazur> But mebbie you lot in Can Ada ahve no nukelur clocks yet.
02:57:48 <DanMacK> nahh
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02:59:18 <Mazur> Or you're in hte Yukon so far away from civilisation, that a clock is deemed accurate if it gets hte day of hte month right 1 times in 30.
02:59:37 <DanMacK> nahh, just Ontario
02:59:54 <Mazur> Oh, how civilised.,
03:00:55 <DanMacK> not really... lol
03:05:37 <Mazur> Well, I'm going to read for a while. Until the public server comes back up or my bed starts calling.
03:05:47 <Mazur> Have a good night.
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05:36:22 <Marxman> Does anyone know where I can get that huge diagram that shows all the ECS vector industry connections?
05:39:18 <Marxman> Anyone?
05:46:12 <rane> erm what
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06:36:37 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22153 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix [FS#4536]: The Greek translation didn't work as it breached the 200.000 bytes "limit" for loading language files
07:30:07 <rane> what's the point of smaller planes if all aircraft except maybe 2-3 late game ones move at the same speed
07:31:53 <Pikka> not a lot
07:32:24 <Pikka> especially if the running and purchase costs of the aircraft are trivial compared to their income
07:32:35 <Pikka> Scudless: oh look you're already in #openttd :o
07:32:41 <Scuddles> but are you
07:32:48 <Pikka> but are you?
07:33:14 <Scuddles> yas
07:34:05 <Pikka> and also if all towns produce passengers prolifically and predictably
07:44:46 <rane> i am running a hands-off game with 5 towns interconnectedo n a small map
07:44:52 <rane> 15 mil a year in 1990 with 50 planes
07:45:05 <rane> and again, it's 256x256
07:45:07 <rane> who needs trains!
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07:54:03 <Joseph398> Just what type of computer do you need to run OpenTTD?
07:54:27 <Joseph398> I have the right OS, but don't know what specs I need for it.
07:54:46 <avdg> if you are on the right os, you have probably the right requirements
07:55:09 <Joseph398> So, there's no demanding 3-D graphics or anything?
07:55:10 <avdg> there are some (unofficial) ports to mobile systems ;-)
07:55:27 <avdg> nope
07:55:35 <avdg> not that I know
07:55:53 <Joseph398> I tried adding in a graphics card onto my computer once, and it was really messy and I never quite got it working.
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07:57:51 <Joseph398> Thanks, that's all I needed. :)
07:57:51 <avdg> Did you run openttd already?
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07:57:59 <avdg> nvm :p
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08:14:09 <rane> 08:55 < Joseph398> So, there's no demanding 3-D graphics or anything?
08:14:12 <rane> hihih
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08:14:25 <rane> if you can run irc, you can run openttd?
08:14:27 <rane> =)
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08:30:57 <planetmaker> moin
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08:37:40 <Pikka> boin
08:37:58 <Zuu> Good morning
08:50:51 <Terkhen> good morning
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09:31:57 <zydeco> greetings
09:32:15 <Alberth> hello
09:33:21 <Terkhen> hi zydeco
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10:27:41 <frosch123> wow, never received turkish spam before
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10:28:52 <Pikka> turkish spam on turkish bread?
10:29:13 <frosch123> looks like they want to sell me sprinkler system for 2000 m² or so :s
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10:30:04 <__ln__> is it cheap?
10:31:33 <frosch123> there are two prices listed; i can only guess: maybe 997 USD for the control system and 3 USD per m²
10:32:45 <Zuu> heh, we have no-addvertising stickies on our mail boxes in my apartment building but one sunday the church had been here and deliveried their magazine to everyone. Otherwise we only get spam about aparments being sold in this area.
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11:38:51 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22154 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix [FS#4529]: _current_company was modified when moving a client to spectators, causing issues in bankruptcy (Rubidium)
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12:23:15 <andythenorth>
12:23:17 <andythenorth> tropic ^
12:23:22 <andythenorth> view from my window
12:27:03 <andythenorth> "This option should be something the devs should add with the very next update of the game."
12:27:08 <andythenorth> so please get on with it :D
12:31:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth, adding over-exposed sprites is your job :-P
12:32:26 * planetmaker waves and is off for the rest of today and tomorrow
12:32:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I was referring to
12:32:33 <andythenorth> ;)
12:34:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker: enjoy
12:35:32 <Terkhen> andythenorth: where are you?
12:35:41 <andythenorth> bombay
12:35:49 <Terkhen> oh :)
12:35:54 <andythenorth> where FIRS was invented
12:36:09 <andythenorth> in 2008, sans internets
12:36:26 <zydeco> wow
12:36:33 <Terkhen> not having internet leads to doing crazy stuff?
12:36:45 <andythenorth> I guess
12:36:48 <andythenorth> hmm
12:36:49 <Terkhen> :D
12:36:59 * andythenorth has been playing the game for once
12:37:01 <andythenorth> it's not bad
12:37:10 <andythenorth> I have some ideas for....improvements
12:37:11 <andythenorth> :P
12:37:13 <Terkhen> :)
12:37:14 <zydeco> some of us do crazy stuff having internets
12:37:29 <Terkhen> improvements to FIRS or to OpenTTD?
12:37:34 <andythenorth> both :D
12:37:37 <andythenorth> I would like to also report that automatic orders are not good imho
12:37:58 <zydeco> I don't like them either
12:38:03 <andythenorth> although they aren't bad either
12:38:29 <andythenorth> a vehicle that gets lost and accidentally visits a station adds an automatic order for that
12:38:29 <andythenorth> not ideal
12:38:32 <Terkhen> I never see them because I only use go non-stop orders
12:38:38 <andythenorth> I may start doing that
12:38:56 <andythenorth> if automatic is now default, then non-stop should also be
12:39:14 <Terkhen> andythenorth: having automatic orders does not mean that the vehicle will try to follow them
12:39:15 <andythenorth> the 7 tile train-length limit was a cause of some confusion as well
12:39:36 * andythenorth searches wiki for explanation of automatic orders
12:40:04 <Terkhen> to my knowledge they are just a list of stations visited between the "real" orders
12:40:18 <Terkhen> they should not have any effect on how the vehicle moves from a station to another
12:40:40 <andythenorth> are they documented anywhere?
12:40:45 <andythenorth> wiki can't find them
12:40:54 <andythenorth> I haven't seen a forum explanation either
12:41:07 <andythenorth> they're confusing
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12:42:05 <Terkhen> @commit 21642
12:42:05 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Commit by rubidium :: r21642 /trunk/src (10 files in 2 dirs) (2010-12-26 09:03:19 UTC)
12:42:06 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: -Feature: concept of automatic station orders; add stub orders for intermediate stations and remove them when not visiting them anymore. This allows you to see what trains visit a station without actually having to order a vehicle to stop at all stations. Based on patch by fonsinchen
12:42:22 <Terkhen> I think that explains what they do, although it is very summarized
12:42:35 * andythenorth to the wiki
12:42:39 <Terkhen> :)
12:44:42 <andythenorth> hmm:
12:44:48 <andythenorth> not very explanatory, but better than nothing
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12:47:17 <andythenorth> the game is quite fun - although I can hardly make any money :P
12:47:35 <andythenorth> and having to force servicing for trains and RVS remains irritating
12:47:52 <Terkhen> hmm... if I redefine default cargos (change their ID) but they keep their cargo label, shouldn't default industries and industry tiles remain unafected?
12:48:28 * Terkhen would prefer to not redefine all industry tiles
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12:49:10 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I usually never service them, but it might have to do with my settings or not caring much about ratings
12:53:33 <Yexo> Terkhen: default industries refer to their cargo by slot number, not by label, at least IIRC
12:55:55 <Terkhen> oh
12:56:10 <Terkhen> thanks... this is going to get quite tedious then
12:57:33 <Yexo> see table/build_industry.h (near the bottom of the file)
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12:58:09 <Yexo> no labels, just CT_* constants which are slot indexes
12:59:03 <andythenorth> Terkhen: as yexo said - you have to redefine all tiles and industries
12:59:05 <andythenorth> have fun :P
12:59:10 <Terkhen> I see... I'll need to redefine all of them then :(
12:59:32 <andythenorth> if you are doing a big project, it's worth using defines and IDs to do it
12:59:39 <andythenorth> saves a lot of pain
12:59:59 <andythenorth> are you defining your own cargos
12:59:59 <andythenorth> ?
13:00:07 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm trying to do custom industry chains for OpenGFX+ Industries
13:00:22 <andythenorth> so default cargos rearranged, or new cargos?
13:00:30 <Terkhen> default cargos rearranged
13:00:57 <andythenorth> nml or nfo?
13:01:07 <Terkhen> nml
13:01:18 <andythenorth> hmm
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13:01:38 <andythenorth> if you're redefining existing industries you will at least have fewer action 0 properties to define
13:01:44 <Terkhen>
13:01:48 <Yexo> please keep in mind that cargo support has never really been tested
13:02:53 * andythenorth is lost with nml :D
13:02:54 <Terkhen> Yexo: for now it seems to work, once the full redefinition works I plan to check if the cargos are really identical or not
13:03:19 * andythenorth has to go, might be back sporadically ;)
13:03:22 <andythenorth> bye
13:03:30 <Terkhen> when/if the code is correct, there should not be any visible differences between default cargos and opengfx+ industries ones
13:03:36 <Terkhen> andythenorth: see you later
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13:28:58 <__ln__> where's the "bahn" at a "busbahnhof"?
13:32:55 <Ammler> __ln__: bahnhof is one word :-)
13:33:02 <frosch123> bahn != eisenbahn
13:33:27 <frosch123> "bahn" is an unprecise abbreviation
13:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: even in german, some things are illogical ;)
13:38:20 <Ammler> usually a "busbahnhof" is a bus station not adjacent to a "bahnhof"
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13:39:08 <frosch123> it can as well be the bus-part of a rail-stations
13:39:48 <Ammler> hmm, aren't those just bus terminals at a rail station?
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13:44:32 <__ln__> i'd say bahn == eisenbahn quite often if not specified to be something else :)
13:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's just one of those ethymological developments, where the "bahn" lost its meaning, but the word was still kept
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13:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "Busbahnhöfe" often, but not always, colocate with a (real) "Bahnhof"
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13:54:33 <__ln__> i see
13:59:33 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: smatz * r22155 /trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp: -Codechange: one comment in saveload/station_sl.cpp was wrong
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18:45:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22156 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt japanese.txt vietnamese.txt):
18:45:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: italian - 54 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: japanese - 2 changes by kokubunzi
18:45:40 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: slovenian - 30 changes by
18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi
19:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- oh i so could slap this guy right in the face for such a reply...
19:23:24 <Terkhen> put him on ignore, it will save you both the slap and reading his posts
19:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i tried that before, but the ignore function of the forum is utterly useless
19:25:07 <SmatZ> I have him in my ignore list, too
19:27:27 * Terkhen ponders posting User was put on ignore for this post
19:28:17 * Eddi|zuHause successfully resisted posting a reply
19:28:29 <Terkhen> :)
19:29:25 * Alberth gives Eddi|zuHause a cookie for his efforts
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20:13:11 <Wolf01> hello
20:18:07 <Alberth> hello
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20:23:45 <krinn> hi guys
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20:25:08 <krinn> do we have cases where an industry temp refuse a cargo on 1.0.5 or is it for openttd 1.1 ?
20:25:55 <Zuu> Yes
20:25:58 <Zuu> pile full
20:26:43 <krinn> oh, never seen that, extreme case or special gameplay (like everyone try to feed one industry?)
20:26:43 <Zuu> Not with original industries, but there are industry sets that under NewGRF-specific conditions.
20:26:53 <krinn> ah ok
20:27:40 <krinn> how a vehicle with full unload react ? waiting at station until it's ok to process?
20:27:54 <Zuu> Try with ECS
20:28:11 <krinn> it's a newgrf ?
20:28:14 <Zuu> Yes
20:28:28 <Zuu> If I try to remember all details, I will probably get them wrong.
20:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the cargo will just be stored at the station. when you didn't specify "no loading", the cargo will stay in the vehicle and it goes back half-full
20:28:59 <Zuu> However, NewGRFs could for example reject cargo in February, sundays and christmas if they wished.
20:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: when the industry starts accepting again, a vehicle must pick up the cargo and deliver it again, it won't be delivered automatically
20:30:10 <Alberth> depending on your unload action, iirc there is also a 'unload when accepted' or so
20:30:43 <krinn> not ai friendly feature
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20:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: that part of the newgrf spec is older than the AI system
20:31:20 <Zuu> At least FIRS is far more AI friendly than ECS.
20:31:48 <krinn> we should have a way to know conditions where the industry refuse the cargo
20:31:52 <Zuu> The AI system is only 2-3 years old or so.
20:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the AIs have not even a way to ask the GRF about stockpile limits
20:32:07 <krinn> if like you said the industry only accept the 24 december, only a human can see/know that right now
20:32:28 <Zuu> Yes
20:32:54 <krinn> it's an option in those newgrf or is it default behavior ?
20:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the only way that the GRFs currently can tell this stuff is by extra text in the industry window. there are no AI callbacks.
20:33:08 <Zuu> But only if the NewGRF author writes that in the manual or other custom gui string.
20:33:40 <krinn> well, i can then safely assume a human activating that + an ai is just dumb no ?
20:34:16 <krinn> except if you're a bankrupt fan :)
20:34:18 <rane> can i turn the impact train speed has on ratings?
20:34:24 <Zuu> Well, you will have to assume that if a such NewGRF is present (only on christmas) it is a user AI to use that NewGRF + AIs.
20:34:31 <rane> i'd like to play with old trains but they get old and businesses disappear:-\
20:35:06 <Zuu> rane: Probably only via OpenTTD source code + recompile.
20:35:08 <krinn> rane: can add more than 1 train to keep up the rating
20:36:08 <Zuu> Oh, tomorrow is the international mouse arm day :-)
20:36:23 <rane> i typically need two per a station
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20:36:35 <rane> but still, as years pass engine gets old and ratings fall
20:36:47 <rane> so i'm forced to go magnev eventually
20:36:51 <krinn> because years pass and industry produce more
20:36:59 <Zuu> You can get a 10%-units bonus buy getting a statue.
20:37:04 <rane> maybe i should get a mod that slows down how fast day pass instead
20:37:07 <krinn> so you need faster train, or more slow trains
20:37:10 <Zuu> (in the right town)
20:37:21 <rane> yes, i have statues
20:37:51 <krinn> it's just like trucks, add 1 it won't keep up the rating, add another one... until they are able to keep it
20:39:14 <Zuu> But rane is right that there is also an age-related component. (not sure if it is the actual vehicle age or engine design year or a combination of both)
20:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> afair it's the vehicle age
20:39:48 <Yexo> the age related component is about the actual age of the vehicle
20:39:58 <krinn> it's there
20:39:59 <Yexo> and it's only a bonus for really new (< 2 years old) vehicles
20:40:02 <Zuu> So rane, just use autorenew
20:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO it should be influenced by reliability as well
20:40:51 <Zuu> Though, it might not be possible to configure it to renew vehicles when they are > 2 years old.
20:41:07 <krinn> dunno if it has been ask, but i saw a grf providing horses... for this kind of play, a stop date should exist as option
20:41:44 <Zuu> You could also question why the horses smoke while they are broken down.
20:41:48 <krinn> like block game to 1954 and don't higher the date...
20:41:53 <krinn> lol yes
20:41:58 <krinn> farts
20:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: technically, that would be a really easy patch.
20:42:49 <krinn> you might seen a lot of "western touch" town & building... coming up
20:42:55 <Zuu> A NewGRF could possible also lower the max speed of horses when they are around max-age or older.
20:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the game has the functionality to use a year as "endless" loop, but it is hardcoded to year 5.000.000
20:43:12 <krinn> i'm not really interrest about that, just i was thinking that cause i saw people doing grf for this kind of play
20:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: it would be fairly simple to turn that into a setting
20:43:58 <Alberth> hmm, another form of day-length :)
20:44:13 <krinn> the back to the futur option :p
20:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, not really
20:44:57 <Alberth> krinn: there is a year cheat too :p
20:45:47 <krinn> generally those kind of hardcore players (by hardcore i mean "hey i love to play with horse running at 1mph to carry 3 cargo) don't use cheats
20:46:25 <Zuu> The year cheat can probably give my AIs a bit of a problem as they check if time has progressed X days since last time it ran certain management functions until it run it again.
20:47:00 <krinn> Zuu, you need a WhatTheFuck() function :P
20:47:17 <Zuu> What does your WhatTheFuck() function?
20:47:41 <krinn> get the ai mad
20:47:53 <Yexo> Zuu: just detect the case and litter the map with signs with the text "CHEATER!"
20:48:04 <Zuu> :-)
20:48:06 <krinn> ahah good one Yexo
20:48:24 <krinn> should do it better yes
20:49:06 <krinn> while i catch you Yexo: town can be founded now ?
20:50:27 <Yexo> hmm? a player can indeed found a town in-game now
20:50:30 <Yexo> an AI can't do that (yet)
20:50:59 <krinn> hence the new function, ok
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21:11:37 <__ln__> launch of Discovery as seen on an airplane:
21:13:31 <krinn> lmao that's why you shouldn't do film with an iphone :P
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21:16:11 <Zuu> would be interesting with the The dirty windows does quite a bit to it too.
21:17:24 <Zuu> I was on a plane when there was a really great sunset out there to photograph, and had both my pocket camera and my system camera in the cabin but since the window was too dirty it was no point of ginging out the system camera.
21:18:41 <krinn> and think about the front window ! I don't really want see the parts the cleaning can't reach, should have more than mosquitos lying there :)
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21:23:06 <Zuu> I guess as dirty as a car, not cleaned for long time.
21:23:36 <Zuu> There is probably more dirt in the air lower down than 10 000 feet up in the sky.
21:24:06 <krinn> + the birds and all that could fly and get it by an airplane
21:24:39 <Zuu> And there is never animals on the road?
21:25:04 <krinn> generally not on your front window
21:25:40 <Zuu> he, true.
21:25:51 <krinn> and also, you genreally don't running at him at mach 2 :)
21:25:55 <krinn> or i want your car !
21:26:05 <Zuu> A morse on your windscreen will not be very nice though :-)
21:26:12 <Zuu> moose*
21:26:25 <Zuu> Those are really heavy...
21:26:33 * Prof_Frink taps out some morse on Zuu's windscreen
21:26:49 <krinn> yeah, but i don't think you will just keep running with a moose on your main window and ignore him :p
21:27:35 <Zuu> You won't have a main window anymore.
21:28:42 <Zuu> I've thanksfully only hit a moorse by a train, and not by car. That felt like a hard bang that spread through the train.
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21:29:27 <krinn> is it moose or morse?
21:29:36 <Zuu> moose
21:29:55 <Zuu> I'm just not used with the English word for it.
21:30:09 <Prof_Frink> krinn: Horse/Moose cross.
21:30:38 <Zuu> It also say elk in my dictionary.
21:31:15 <krinn> they're huge yes, seen my neighbourg's car that hit a (pig, but the savage one) and woowww his car was totally dead
21:32:32 <krinn> he told me the beast goes in the wood like if nothing happen
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21:32:58 <krinn> i suppose it has gone die farer, but still, the damage on the car was like if he hit a tree or a wall
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21:34:52 <SmatZ> krinn: it probably died later for internal wounds
21:35:29 <krinn> i suppose that too, but that didn't stop him from running
21:35:50 <Zuu> Those can reach a weight of aronud 200 kg (according to wikipedia)
21:35:56 <krinn> ah name i was looking is "boar"
21:36:35 <Zuu> Romanian and russian can get up to 300 kg, also according to wikipedia.
21:37:11 <krinn> that's huge
21:37:20 <krinn> can eat for month with one !
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21:48:32 <vb> hi
21:48:39 <vb> what is the best industry set?
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21:50:00 <V453000> original
21:50:09 <V453000> or FIRS
21:50:12 <V453000> others are crap
21:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda liked PBI
21:52:24 <V453000> yes if you do not use the mines
21:52:31 <V453000> and for smaller network :)
21:53:21 <vb> so firs it is?
21:53:27 <vb> ecs is too complicated
21:53:46 <vb> factories only need a certain ammount of
21:53:50 <vb> factories only need a certain amount of products
21:54:05 <V453000> ecs is overcombinated and stupid
21:54:11 <V453000> if you want good industries, FIRS is the way
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21:54:20 <vb> they only thing is, it has cars
21:54:27 <vb> the only good thing is*
21:54:28 <V453000> although the most fun is original industries, imo
21:55:24 <Zuu> I like FIRS, but mostly when I don't have to deal with the complexity myself but just watching the AIs to play with FIRS. :-)
21:56:04 <Zuu> When I play myself I prefere the original industries + vehicles or maybe UKRS as that's what I know best and I can concentrate on rail building.
21:57:44 <V453000> UKRS is the best :p
22:04:26 <krinn> zuu: pointing elem in a {} to null = delete it ?
22:05:04 <Zuu> maybe, depending on what you exactly mean.
22:05:14 <Zuu> Eg, please try to express yourself more clearly.
22:06:05 <krinn> like a={}; b="bah"; a[k] <- b; (so now a[k] = b object)
22:06:29 <krinn> and doing so a[k]=null remove/delete it from {} as a[k] point to nothing now
22:07:02 <Zuu> if b still points to "bah", then the "bah"-object is still alive.
22:07:26 * Sacro wonders when the new version will be out
22:07:46 <krinn> oh found it ! delete a.k
22:09:00 * Zuu thinks Sacro has been around for long enough to have a good idea about when 1.1 will be out.
22:09:33 <Sacro> Zuu: an hour or so?
22:09:47 <Zuu> No
22:09:55 <Sacro> two?
22:10:01 <Zuu> Wrong month
22:10:02 <krinn> the general rule should be "done when its done" no ?
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22:10:16 <vb> no
22:10:30 <Zuu> Also we have the 28:th tomorrow.
22:10:51 <__ln__> the 29th?
22:11:02 <vb> !time
22:11:04 <vb> fail
22:11:26 <krinn> 29 would be more than a year :p
22:11:32 <Yexo> Sacro: gives you a very good hint
22:11:36 <__ln__> a fortnight from now?
22:11:54 <__ln__> (i always wanted to use that word)
22:12:25 <vb> which word?
22:12:35 <Zuu> not yet, but in a forthnight it might be a forthnigth to the release.
22:13:58 <__ln__> it's 'fortnight' as i spelled it
22:14:37 <Terkhen> :D
22:14:46 <Zuu> spell it as "forthnight"
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22:15:43 <Zuu> but my dictionary only contain fortnight, so it is probably more right.
22:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd thought it was derived from "fourteen nights", why would it be written with "th"?
22:18:25 <Zuu> because it sounds okay to put in an h there?
22:18:49 <krinn> i would be only fourth
22:19:19 <__ln__> Etymology: Contracted form of Old English féowertýne niht fourteen nights.
22:20:05 <Zuu> krinn: Even if it originates from fourteen it could change over time.
22:20:51 <__ln__> oh cool, there's also 'sennight': A period of seven (days and) nights; a week.
22:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> then where does the word "week" come from?
22:21:32 <Zuu> well, something the English got to have since they don't have a word for "the day after tomorrow" or "the day before yesterday". :-)
22:21:39 <Sacro> heh
22:21:41 <Sacro> true
22:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: yeah, i find that disturbing sometimes
22:21:59 <Sacro> fortnight
22:22:30 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: Etymology: Common Germanic: Old English wice weak feminine corresponds to Old Frisian wike (West Frisian wike, North Frisian week, wik), Old Saxon -wika in crûcewika Passion Week (Middle Low German, Low German weke), Middle Dutch weke (Dutch week), Old High German wehha, wohha (Middle High German, modern German woche), Old Norse vika (Norwegian vika, Swedish vecka, Danish uge), ? Gothic wikō (once only, rendering τάξις ‘order’ in Luk
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22:23:33 <__ln__> "As there is no reason to suppose that the Germanic peoples used a reckoning by weeks before they came in contact with the Romans, it is probable that the Old Germanic *wikōn- had originally some meaning wider than that of ‘period of seven days’, which the word has in West Germanic and Scandinavian; perhaps it meant ‘succession, series,’ and this may have been the sense of Gothic wikō in the only recorded example. The root *wk- is found in Old No
22:23:51 <krinn> zuu: after tomorrow / before yesterday
22:24:11 <Zuu> still not one word.
22:24:27 <krinn> we also don't have a one word for that, and still our language here is considered rich
22:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: and another one: why do the french say "quinze jours" (fifteen days) to mean two weeks?
22:24:58 <Zuu> and to me "after tomorrow" doesn't sound like a very specific description of exactly the day after tomorrow, but not any futher ahead in time.
22:25:16 <krinn> eheh eddi, right, but it's not as "two weeks" for us
22:25:19 <krinn> it's half month
22:25:59 <krinn> it's easier to catch an half month than think about x days later
22:27:18 <Sacro> mmm, FISH supports 'lickable pixels'
22:27:45 <Prof_Frink> Pixel licker.
22:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: possibly someone dropped a 'c' ;)
22:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or an "inexp" ;)
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22:28:48 <krinn> :) i like the 2nd
22:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but the most important word that english is missing is the german word: "doch" [typically followed by an exclamation mark]
22:33:28 <krinn> is that the simpson "doh!"?
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22:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no. it means "i am right, and you are wrong"
22:35:58 <krinn> only teutons could have such an ordering word :)
22:37:23 <krinn> don't "doch!" generally is follow by a mass crushing your head ?
22:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- example usage. (don't know how that is in french original)
22:40:32 <krinn> it's just say "si" for us (means yes but not as yes more as "it is"
22:41:24 <krinn> really funny to see that in german
22:42:13 <krinn> it really looks like it's the real actors voices
22:42:24 <krinn> or the guys they have taken are really good
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22:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> IMDB doesn't list the speakers in the translated version...
22:49:55 <Ammler> best movie db is wikipedia
22:51:30 <krinn> looks like their own voices really
22:51:38 <krinn> can't detect french accent while they speak?
22:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- this seems to be the list of actors who did synchronisation voice in various films for louis de funes
22:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it says Gerd Martienzen had an almost identical voice
22:54:04 <krinn> yes really, tone & all, amazing
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22:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really have the comparison.
22:58:28 <Sacro> what's the best industries set?
23:00:02 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause,
23:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> another famous example of the word is the (supposed) galileo quote "und sie bewegt sich doch!" (something along the lines of "and she [it, the earth] moves anyway")
23:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> random etymological tidbit: in all germanic languages the sun is female and the moon is male, while in all romanic languages it's the other way around
23:03:40 <Sacro> @seen Pikka
23:03:40 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <Pikka> turkish spam on turkish bread?
23:04:15 <krinn> oh, i didn't know that, and it's true, moon for us is female while sun is male
23:07:37 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:08:27 <Zuu> never herd about that the sun or moon is male/femaile here
23:09:06 <Terkhen> good night
23:09:14 <krinn> night Terkhen
23:09:23 <krinn> well, you have female/male for beauty no ?
23:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no. of course not. that would be logical. :p
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23:12:24 <krinn> i don't even think of a word here that isn't male or female
23:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: german has also "neutral" gender
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23:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's pretty much impossible to get them right if you haven't grown up with them. ask Rubidium ;)
23:13:41 <krinn> i think we have not even one neutral word, it's male/female
23:14:01 <krinn> with male > female of course
23:14:31 <krinn> and the "it" is a pain for us :)
23:15:34 <Zuu> female/male for "beutiful" don't exist in swedish, but it does in the swedish sign language.
23:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: there are some weird bits between french and german where the genders are exactly opposite
23:17:05 <krinn> must be more religious matter, you know the "we love the moon princess vs we love the moon prince"... so you get prince for moon and moon is male...
23:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> one particular oddity is "le tour" [as in "a trip"] and "la tour" [as in "a tower"], which is exactly switched around :)
23:17:30 <Zuu> good night all
23:17:36 <krinn> night Zuu
23:18:25 <krinn> you means you would say "le tour du monde" and "tour la eiffel" ?
23:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean "la tour eiffel" [female] becomes "Der Eiffelturm" [male] and "le tour de france" [male] becomes "Die Tour de France" [female]
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23:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (while both "Turm" and "Tour" are loan words, they seemed to have switched genders somehow)
23:22:10 <krinn> :O funny
23:23:43 <krinn> all french i know that speak german says it's an easy language for them
23:24:12 <krinn> but this kind of strange gender inversion should be hard
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23:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much all german people say french is hard ;)
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23:26:26 <krinn> :)
23:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose there are more german people who know french than french people who know german
23:27:06 <krinn> you're kidding? we have region that are german/french fully
23:27:30 <krinn> and german here (as english) is 1st other language you can teach at school
23:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes. but outside of that region?
23:27:53 <krinn> while spanish/italian are 2nd ones
23:28:08 <krinn> not that region (i lack to say regions)
23:28:10 <__ln__> is that region larger than 2 square-meters?
23:28:15 <krinn> nearly all north
23:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the areas that were formerly part of germany are fairly large
23:29:04 <krinn> alsace, loraine... yep really large
23:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they basically went back and forth since medieval times
23:29:39 <__ln__> france, netherlands, ... ah, medieval
23:30:05 <krinn> even today, they are all cheating
23:30:32 <krinn> taking german as 1st language while they all speak french/german since birth
23:30:59 <__ln__> impressive, often babies only learn to talk at around 1 year of age :)
23:31:14 <krinn> :)
23:31:25 <krinn> talk maybe, but parents speak both to them
23:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that's what happens when you interbreed german and french people
23:31:37 <krinn> so even they don't talk, understanding is first path to learn
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23:33:02 <krinn> it create links to slaughter with someone for years :)
23:33:44 <__ln__> i've read about a research which concluded that babies generate different sounds depending on what language they've heard since birth (or even before)
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23:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: yes. it's easily visible with german and french, in the beginning all babies sound alike, but french kids quickly start to emphasise the second syllable while german kids emphasise the first syllable
23:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, japanese kids learn how to distinguish l and r if they grow up in an environment that uses these sounds
23:36:12 <krinn> we learned earlier how to be 2nd :)
23:36:56 <__ln__> intelesting
23:38:05 <krinn> ^^
23:39:22 <krinn> a bit like the theory in that movie
23:39:45 <krinn> environment builds you
23:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: there was a bit on ARTE recently where they asked french people to sing/humm the melody of the german national anthem, and german people to sing/humm the french national anthem. the french had no clue... they only found one person who knew the melody, and he was belgian. while most of the germans knew the melody and some even the text
23:40:33 <krinn> oh really i don't know it myself, not a word or note
23:40:47 <krinn> but it might just because ours is a kick ass battle anthem
23:41:30 <krinn> i'm proud of it, not trusting a god or the like, fight to survive, it sound good
23:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that it's kinda closely connected to the french revolution, which is kind of a key point in european history.
23:42:41 <krinn> some here even think we should change it (always a crazy to tell weird things), because not really reprensenting us in today's world
23:43:23 <krinn> i don't know if our anthem exist translate somewhere, but it's really worth reading it
23:43:40 <__ln__> krinn: never watched Formula 1 between ~1996 and ~2005?
23:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i think there's lots of blood in it
23:44:11 <krinn> lol, no, as soon as prost give up formula wasn't of any interest :)
23:44:37 <krinn> there's blood in it yes, but not as you think
23:45:06 <krinn> it's more, we will revenge because they blood us, our wife, country...
23:45:30 <krinn> eheh, more like "we will kick your ass, but not our fault, you start it"
23:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen a translation before, but i only remember some small bits
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23:46:19 <krinn>
23:46:26 <krinn> the wikipedia is so a great tool
23:49:03 <__ln__> by today's standards the french revolution would be considered an act of terrorism for sure.
23:49:49 <krinn> yes and no
23:50:17 <krinn> no because taking weapon and fight vs your opponent isn't terrorism, revolution, rebellion but not terrorism
23:50:30 <krinn> terrorism is fear battle, hidden attack
23:50:40 <krinn> but for today's standard yes
23:51:00 <krinn> because terrorism today is what the one that govern you is calling terrorism
23:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: even they called it "La Terreur"?
23:52:11 <krinn> and you also don't attack random target, but you're against something clearly define
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23:52:48 <__ln__> i agree
23:53:29 <krinn> terrorism would be me bombing a subway in london asking to remove a dictator somewhere, or me in my own country bombing random people in a cinema for a reason not related to movie...
23:54:14 <krinn> but even i won't last long, me taking a weapon and telling i'm going to fight and kick ass another army isn't terrorism :)
23:55:48 <krinn> but it sounds good to kick someone ass and tell everyone, you're just taking off terrorists
23:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no real distinction between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter". it's all about on which side you're on
23:58:19 <krinn> well there's one, tigher if you do that on your own country, but still one
23:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> not really
23:59:38 <krinn> crashing a plane to washington dc if you are a military and your country is at war against that country is war
23:59:57 <krinn> crashing that plane while many civilian are inside the plane is terrorism