IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-02-15
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00:21:56 <zydeco> shouldn't the ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_INFO packet also include the bankrupcy and share info ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_UPDATE includes?
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06:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> aww... i have a feeling i just "fed the troll"
06:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and it's not even friday
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07:03:13 <Terkhen> good morning
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07:17:56 <planetmaker> good morning
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07:35:24 <andy-zzz> guys, how can I override the 48 square from the edge oil rig setting?
07:35:47 <andy-zzz> and whats the logic behind it anyway?
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07:36:50 <Terkhen> andy-zzz: the logic is that in TTD, the "sea" was always at the border, but that's not the case anymore
07:37:12 <Terkhen> to override it you can use OpenGFX+ Industries
07:37:23 <planetmaker> :-)
07:37:39 <V453000> or stations name by nearest industry newGRF :p
07:37:53 <Terkhen> oh, that would be a good adition to OpenGFX
07:38:02 <Terkhen> (industries)
07:38:08 <planetmaker> yeah, too
07:38:17 <planetmaker> and manindustries as well
07:38:17 <andy-zzz> how do i go about it? can i change it from within a current game or will i have to restart?
07:38:25 <planetmaker> restart
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07:38:58 <planetmaker> any change you make on the current game won't affect the existing industries iirc - and has the potential to muck up even more
07:39:14 <Terkhen> IIRC you can build them anywhere in the scenario editor
07:39:27 <planetmaker> that might be an elegant solution :-)
07:39:36 <Terkhen> if that's the case you could load your game in the SE, place the refinery and move it back to a normal game
07:39:46 <andy-zzz> lol
07:39:53 <andy-zzz> some hack
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07:39:57 <Terkhen> yes :)
07:40:09 <Terkhen> but less hackier than changing NewGRFs ingame :P
07:40:10 <planetmaker> not really a hack. Rather a work-around
07:40:32 <andy-zzz> or cheat
07:40:36 <andy-zzz> ;)
07:40:46 <V453000> define cheat :)
07:40:59 <V453000> you play openttd against yourself, how can you cheat that :p
07:41:20 <planetmaker> Terkhen: possibly we should add the developer tools to the cheats
07:41:29 <planetmaker> then most people who use that won
07:41:37 <planetmaker> *won't because they don't like to cheat
07:41:50 <Terkhen> that's a good solution yes :)
07:42:40 <Terkhen> and there is probably some cases in which you can change NewGRFs to "cheat"
07:42:47 <planetmaker> sure
07:42:51 <planetmaker> like manual industries :-)
07:43:14 <planetmaker> or a basecost grf
07:43:42 <Terkhen> but IMO we should keep the developer tools as a setting and just add a cheat flag for "newgrfs changed in this game"
07:44:56 <andy-zzz> both 'load scenario and load heightmap' from inside Scenario Editor filter out the .sav files
07:45:16 <planetmaker> andy-zzz: yes. But just rename it to scn instead of sav
07:45:35 <planetmaker> (the current behaviour is stupid, yes)
07:47:50 <andy-zzz> me or the editor?
07:47:50 <andy-zzz> lol
07:47:58 <andy-zzz> aye thats worked
07:48:05 <planetmaker> the way scn / sav destinction is handled by OpenTTD
07:48:20 <planetmaker> it does - IMHO - make no sense to distinguish it or use different file endings
07:48:31 <planetmaker> *distinction
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07:49:10 <planetmaker> it's the save file format with no difference
07:49:15 <TGYoshi> hai ^^
07:49:27 <andy-zzz> yeah i know but what about the 48 max square from the edge bug (or legacy code), surely an easy one to fix so why not?
07:50:51 <andy-zzz> not a coder but surely if the 48 is already declared it is just a matter of change that?
07:51:47 <planetmaker> it is. But it might break newgrfs which rely on that. And newgrfs can change that. So it's not really a problem
07:51:51 <dihedral> good morning
07:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... kate doesn't respond well to files with _really_ long lines
07:52:04 <Terkhen> good morning dihedral
07:52:12 <dihedral> uh ... a -zzz tag? :-P
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07:52:31 <planetmaker> as Terkhen said: just use a newgrf which disables that limit. OpenGFX+ Industries does that for instance
08:02:39 <andy-zzz> is Industries in the 'check online content' bit?
08:04:51 <Terkhen> no
08:05:08 <Terkhen>
08:05:31 <planetmaker> not yet on bananas :-
08:05:35 <planetmaker> :-)
08:13:16 <andy-zzz> ok, thanks all
08:13:43 <V453000> is it on purpose that lumber mills are treated as "secondaries" in the industry funding?
08:13:47 <V453000> and why?
08:14:08 <V453000> it is impossible to make them disabled :(
08:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: founding lumbermills is an integral part of the original game
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08:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there is no other way to create them, they don't appear automatically
08:18:24 <V453000> I would have liked to prospect them :)
08:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well... make a newgrf
08:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a "make lumber mill available in all climates" grf that you can probably use as basis
08:19:46 <V453000> I would rather want to make it unavailable in tropic :)
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08:21:23 <planetmaker> newgrf? ;-)
08:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "make available" and "make unavailable" is really the same thing, just a bit flipped :p
08:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, mysqldump has the ability to create tab-delimited lists, great ;)
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08:59:23 <TGYoshi> O_O
08:59:33 <TGYoshi> The waiting goods reduce in amount somehow x]
09:07:03 <TGYoshi> Found a spelling mistake in the Dutch translation ^^
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09:14:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: they do that if your rating drops below 50%
09:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and the spelling won't be fixed by telepathy...
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09:16:45 <TGYoshi> What ratings? o.o
09:17:00 <TGYoshi> Does my company suck that much? :P
09:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the station
09:19:41 <TGYoshi> scary
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09:55:37 <planetmaker> <-- I must be doing something terribly wrong. Why does the e-mail link not show on that page?
09:56:14 <planetmaker> it should be covering "sending an e-mail to me" - and the source code also shows that...
09:56:40 <blathijs> planetmaker: You forgot the "a"
09:56:44 <blathijs> <href="">
09:56:49 <blathijs> <a href="">
09:57:50 <planetmaker> oh, right :-) thanks
09:57:55 <planetmaker> blind fish, me
09:59:14 <Terkhen> why is entry05 zoomed out?
10:00:06 <planetmaker> the contestant chose to submit it that way
10:00:25 <planetmaker> The zoom status is honoured :-)
10:00:53 <Terkhen> ok :)
10:02:03 <planetmaker> I even asked him to consider changing it - but he never got back to me
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10:03:29 <planetmaker> note that also entry16 is zoomed out to the medium level
10:03:38 <planetmaker> there I know for sure that it's by design
10:05:27 <Terkhen> are they sorted in any specific way?
10:06:00 <planetmaker> no
10:06:14 <planetmaker> file system order
10:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have a "score" system for round 1 last time?
10:07:04 <planetmaker> I'm not sure. Did we? I'm happy with that, too.
10:07:10 <planetmaker> Like 1,2,3?
10:07:30 <planetmaker> Convince me now and I change it :-)
10:07:46 <planetmaker> so like "rank your top three games"
10:07:54 <planetmaker> worth 3, 2 and 1 point
10:08:04 <planetmaker> respectively
10:11:20 <Terkhen> I was pondering spamming votes for entry07, but after seeing how it looks with original graphics I don't want to carry this over my conscience
10:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> a toyland title screen... scaaaary!
10:12:19 <planetmaker> hm, I could take that out as it's against the rules. But it won't win anyway, I guess :-)
10:12:19 <Terkhen> I was thinking eye bleeding
10:12:34 <Terkhen> but scary fits too :)
10:13:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker: the mail link in your forum post is wrong
10:14:00 <planetmaker> yes
10:14:18 <planetmaker> better?
10:14:28 <planetmaker> the e-mail link does not seem to work in the URL thingy there
10:14:36 <Terkhen> yes :)
10:15:01 <planetmaker> well. Shall I say "rank entries, worth three, two and one point respectively"?
10:15:17 <Terkhen> sounds fine to me
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10:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 17 is intriguing ;)
10:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so much different than the others ;)
10:17:53 <Terkhen> yes... but I find it a bit too empty
10:19:23 <planetmaker> voting page updated accordingly
10:20:03 <Terkhen> who plays on 2560x1600?
10:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 25 has an interesting station, but the rest seems kinda boring on higher resolutions
10:21:08 <planetmaker> Terkhen, Rb :-P
10:21:31 <planetmaker> I could play here, though, on 2560 x 1024
10:22:16 <planetmaker> there are many entries where I think they're nice in one aspect - but which fail quite a bit in others - like looking nice on many resolutions
10:22:34 <planetmaker> granted, I'd not give the look on 2560x1600 the biggest impact on my vote
10:22:39 <Terkhen> even with HDMI on my TV IIRC I cannot reach more than 1920x1200 :P
10:23:00 <planetmaker> double & tripple monitor setups ;-)
10:23:14 <Terkhen> heh :)
10:27:14 <zydeco> I play on almost 2560x1440 sometimes
10:27:21 <zydeco> :p
10:29:43 <planetmaker> I play mostly in something about 800x600 ;-)
10:29:53 <planetmaker> windowed, leaving space for IRC and stuff
10:30:19 <zydeco> yes, I normally do that too
10:30:29 <Terkhen> 1280x1024
10:31:44 <Terkhen> planetmaker: is this the "final voting round"? IIRC there was second round after this one
10:32:48 <planetmaker> this is not final
10:33:06 <planetmaker> this is the first? Am I so ambiguous about that?
10:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> am i crazy for abusing the spam-filter for weeding out the bad images? :p
10:33:29 <planetmaker> there'll be two rounds. First now to create a shortlist, 2nd to pick the winner from the shortlist
10:33:36 <Terkhen> you might want to edit the "body" on your mailto link then
10:33:50 <planetmaker> uhm... ok
10:34:08 <planetmaker> I thought I explained the purpose of that e-mail on the page it is linked ;-)
10:34:47 <Terkhen> planetmaker: yes, but that part of the mail confused me :)
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10:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 24 has the problem that the station is exactly behind the main window on 1680x1050
10:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> on 800x600 i could almost fall in love with it ;)
10:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 25 has the exact opposite problem
10:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm down to 8 candidates
10:45:21 <Rubidium> wow... 34 candidates?
10:45:47 <Rubidium> that's up 70% from last time ;)
10:49:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: don't forget's frontpage
10:51:03 <SmatZ> dihedral: can you test if connecting to admin console crashes recent nighties?
10:53:48 <dihedral> sure
10:53:51 <dihedral> give me a sec
10:54:26 <dihedral> but you can test it too if you wish :-)
10:54:44 <dihedral>
10:54:54 <dihedral>
10:55:05 <dihedral> you need to download the 'bundle' build
10:55:30 <dihedral>
10:55:32 <dihedral> ^ SmatZ
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10:55:45 <dihedral> that creates a remote console via the admin network
10:56:15 <SmatZ> dihedral: I would do that myself, but I don't have java installed :)
10:56:23 <dihedral> pffft :-P
10:57:01 <dihedral> i confirm what you said
10:57:12 <dihedral> Assertion failed at line 127 of /home/nathanael/Development/openttd/src/network/../core/pool_func.hpp: this->checked != 0
10:57:17 <SmatZ> ok thanks :)
10:57:45 <dihedral> thumbs up for noticing that before the rc1 release :-)
10:57:48 <dihedral> sadly not before branching
10:57:50 <dihedral> :-D
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11:09:27 <dihedral> most title game entries are based on a single company - that is quite sad
11:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... since the title game disables cost animation, can it also disable the income sound?
11:10:20 <peter1138> and the ding ding sound? :p
11:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> different issue :p
11:11:26 <dihedral> lol
11:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 2 spams some messages about missing AIs... will they be fixed for the final title save?
11:14:01 <dihedral> crashes would also be annoying :-P
11:14:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, that can be fixed...
11:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> entry 11 kinda gives a bad example about landing jet planes on small airports
11:16:47 <dihedral> oversized train stations ...
11:17:16 <planetmaker> he... from the e-mail header's name I didn't quite recognize yours initially, Terkhen :-)
11:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: those fell out of the consideration quite fast :p
11:17:37 <dihedral> aye
11:18:18 <Terkhen> :)
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11:25:51 <dihedral> odd - i only have one save to vote for :-(
11:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... now i'm down to 4
11:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't decide between 20 or 21
11:26:26 <dihedral> and sadly the one i do have looks odd in small resolutions
11:27:04 <dihedral> they both only have one company on the go
11:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> 20 has a minor flaw
11:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in the top left there's a rail line
11:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but it takes a really long time until a train comes
11:31:20 <zydeco> oops, a bug
11:31:29 <planetmaker> Rubidium, you mean I should add a news message? Ok, I'll tend to that... in a few hours
11:34:24 <planetmaker> and thanks for reminding me :-)
11:35:11 <planetmaker> btw, the "top performer" of the current competition contributed a whopping 6 savegames
11:35:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, might have recognized those :-)
11:35:57 <planetmaker> not recognized. But identified
11:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, i didn't really paid attention ;)
11:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> err... "pay" or "hadn't"
11:37:20 <planetmaker> <dihedral> oversized train stations ...
11:37:20 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: those fell out of the consideration quite fast :p
11:37:28 <planetmaker> I meant that ;-)
11:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ;)
11:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> some of the entries looked very alike
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11:57:56 <DanMacK> Hey all
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12:00:09 <SmatZ> :)
12:00:14 <SmatZ> hello DanMacK
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12:11:51 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: smatz * r22085 /trunk/src/network/network_admin.cpp: -Fix: assert when connecting to the admin port
12:18:28 <planetmaker> hi DanMacK
12:23:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, is the list also your order of preference?
12:23:52 <planetmaker> (now that you suggested to rank savegames, you don't do it yourself ;-) )
12:29:43 <dihedral> :-P
12:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: hm, maybe i didn't refresh the page...
12:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but yeah, i think the order is right
12:32:43 <planetmaker> ok :-)
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12:45:28 <dihedral> <- can someone tell me how this actually fixed the issue? i only see 2 additional asserts and fail to see the fix :-(
12:45:55 <dihedral> or does assert_compile() do something special?
12:46:52 <planetmaker> it fails on compilation, not run-time
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12:47:17 <planetmaker> like type checking
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12:47:33 <peter1138> dihedral, doesn't make sense to me
12:48:31 <peter1138> dihedral, i could see it moving a crash/assert from somewhere else to here, but not actually fix anything
12:48:47 <dihedral> oddly enough - it does seem fixed :-P
12:48:57 <dihedral> which is what i am surprised about and do not understand why
12:50:22 <SmatZ> dihedral: assert() as sideeffect calls CanAllocateItem()
12:50:30 <SmatZ> which is needed to prevent the other assert
12:51:02 <SmatZ> CanAllocateItem() affects Pool::checked
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12:51:15 <SmatZ> GetNew() checks Pool::checked ... only with asserts enabled
12:51:49 <dihedral> lol :-)
12:51:53 <dihedral> nifty
12:52:00 <dihedral> thank you SmatZ
12:53:00 <peter1138> sounds like it's hiding a faulty condition elsewhere to me
12:54:09 <SmatZ> peter1138: the check in GetNew() is used to verify we called CanAllocateItem() before trying to allocate an item... but in this case, _network_clients_connected is checked instead
12:54:17 <SmatZ> so it shouldn't fail
12:54:39 <SmatZ> but yes, if that assert() fails, then _network_clients_connected is counting wrongly
12:55:27 <dihedral> does _network_clients_connected include admin connectsions? i thought it only counted clients
12:55:41 <SmatZ> nope, it uses different pool as well
12:55:46 <SmatZ> but the logic is the same
12:56:06 <SmatZ> _network_admins... ServerAdminPool (or something like that)
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12:56:59 <dihedral> yes
12:57:22 <dihedral> why not add the 'canAllocateItem' to the value of 'accept'?
12:58:12 <SmatZ> dihedral: in fact, I was thinking about getting rid of _network_clients_connected and using ServerNetworkGameSocketHandler::GetNumItems() instead
12:58:18 <SmatZ> similiar for *admin*
12:58:28 <SmatZ> but I haven't investigated that idea further
12:58:31 * DanMacK missed the toyland entry for the title game thread
12:58:47 <SmatZ> maybe because _network_clients_connected counts the non-dedicated server as well, or something like that
12:58:49 <SmatZ> (just guessing)
13:00:04 <dihedral> which is a simple -1 if _network_dedicated
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13:02:57 <dihedral> SmatZ, would your fix not fail if asserts are not enabled?
13:03:20 <dihedral> i.e. for a stable release?
13:03:49 <peter1138> no, cos it wouldn't assert in the first place
13:03:55 <peter1138> (i assume that's the problem)
13:04:13 <peter1138> hence my statement about hiding a faulty condition elsewhere
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13:05:18 <dihedral> that's odd....
13:05:30 <dihedral> i mean, of course it would not assert elsewhere if asserts were disabled
13:05:53 <dihedral> but what _would_ happen?
13:06:03 <SmatZ> not calling CanAllocateItem() isn't "faulty"
13:06:17 <SmatZ> but in some cases, when the pool is full, it would error()
13:06:34 <SmatZ> there are cases when we know CanAllocateItem() is not needed
13:06:45 <SmatZ> but it has to be called in order to make GetNew() happy
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13:15:28 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: smatz * r22086 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: do not check if we can allocate an item if we won't try to do so anyway
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13:27:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22087 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: When deleting towns, only relocate objects during DC_EXEC.
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13:41:05 <xiong> I'm trying to get a machine shop started before it goes bust. And I've been busy.... So meanwhile, my steel mill is only just really getting started and has never shipped. So, I put a token 2-car train on it, to the machine shop, just to get the ball rolling. The train sat there trying to load for 2 months, then finally took away its measly 44 tons. Immediately, I see a > 300-ton backlog on the steel mill!
13:43:17 <V453000> what is unusual? :)
13:43:38 <xiong> Oh, and I forgot to mention that one of the the things that delayed setting up the machine shop station was the tinkering I did to synchronize delivery of all 3 inputs to the steel mill.
13:43:57 <xiong> V453000, Eh? Not exactly unusual, maybe; just ornery.
13:44:01 <V453000> what is the problem :)
13:44:41 <xiong> Well, shortage of coal, for one. That's another thing I was fixing when I started to panic over the machine shop.
13:45:23 <xiong> See, the machine shop is just two counties away from the forge, which had the initial responsibility, of course, for primary industry supply. I so want to be able to slip the machine shop into that role.
13:45:53 <xiong> If it goes bust while that pilot train is making its way across the map, I'll plotz.
13:47:22 <xiong> The coal mine was way over on the wrong side of the map *and* next to a lime kiln, so I have mental issues shipping that coal to the steel mill. I prospected a second coal mine and it was created much further away still. Nothing like a challenge.
13:48:14 <xiong> I *will* get coal to the mill, metal to the shop. We have the technology.
13:48:35 <V453000> I cant say I understand the problem, but it probably isnt important
13:48:53 <xiong> ?
13:49:27 <xiong> No, not important. Don't know how I've been unclear. Certainly not a bug in the software. Maybe a short between the earphones: mine.
13:49:58 <V453000> if I understand correctly, you connected a lime kiln and steel mill, while you had only one coal mine
13:50:47 <V453000> that is your problem that you have not enough mines :) that is why there are the supplies to make you able to control which industry grows - here you need the coal mine to grow, so you supply it and after it grew enough you connect another coal accepting industry :)
13:50:51 <xiong> Oh no; I just wasn't shipping coal to the mill. A token load but that's all. But it is getting plenty of iron ore and scrap, so I'd like to think it would produce more consistently. Oh well.
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13:51:51 <xiong> "Consistently" is a big and fuzzy concept. Naturally, I don't want to litter my layout with tiny trains. But it might take two months just to load a long train, even at a good producer. There are tradeoffs....
13:52:30 <V453000> so you are having problems with waves of production at steel mill
13:52:41 <xiong> Ramping up transport to match production is not straightforward. Ideally, you start with many short trains and go to many long trains.
13:52:56 <V453000> solution a: provide more intensive service, solution b: provide a flexible train count to the metal pickup
13:53:28 <xiong> But there is no way to auto-lengthen a train. I find lengthening to be quite tedious when I have, say, 16 trains picking up at X.
13:53:31 <V453000> intensive service as in more delivery trains, so you can be sure all 3 cargoes arrive each month
13:54:20 <xiong> V453000, That's why I have the syncho section. I have 4 trains and 3 trucks shuttling cargo back and forth. If there were any coal delivered to speak of, I'm sure it would work better.
13:54:35 <xiong> s/syncho/synchro/
13:55:19 <xiong> Someone, by now, has probably suggested autoreplace other than 1-for-1.
13:55:56 <xiong> I don't know what that would look like; the current autoreplace dialog already is a bit clumsy, although essential.
13:56:25 <V453000> wait, are you having problems with waves on steel mill production, autoreplace of trains, or coal mines, lime kilns or what? :D
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13:56:56 <TGYoshi> trala
13:59:23 <xiong> V453000, I'm not much of a linear thinker. All of the above.
13:59:49 <xiong> A cascade of issues; I examine it for weak links.
13:59:56 <V453000> uhm
14:00:03 <V453000> guess I cannot help you then
14:01:46 <xiong> Well, I don't know what *could* be done. I mean, everything can be done, in time. This was not an ongoing issue, merely a bubble -- I wanted metal and I wanted it right then. If I'd thought ahead, I might have shipped metal to a random station, nearby the machine shop, long ago. The station is already there, I can transfer the metal and store it until I'm ready to accept it.
14:02:08 <xiong> The only issue there is that then, forever, that temp warehouse will complain that it's not getting good metal service.
14:03:24 <xiong> The basic issue is that, even with all the cash I could possibly spend, it takes me long enough to build the network that an industry may close before I get to it -- an industry I want. That's a challenge, not a problem.
14:05:18 <xiong> I only mentioned any of this because I thought it was funny to stand there peeing my pants, waiting for that one token train to load, thinking I should have only put 1 car on instead of 2; and then I saw the 300t pile up right after. People tell me I don't have a sense of humor.
14:07:18 <xiong> Ha. The backlog just broke 1000t. I'll just have to buy some trains, eh?
14:08:07 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
14:08:13 <V453000> maybe :)
14:13:25 <xiong> Well, not tonight. Time for beddy with Teddy.
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14:20:59 <Belugas> hello
14:21:04 <andythenorth> anybody want to write a GUI in squirrel?
14:21:14 *** ar3k has quit IRC
14:21:21 <andythenorth> and exponentially increase the bad kind of complexity
14:21:48 <andythenorth> meanwhile also creating nice turf war about APIs between 'devs' and 'GUI devs'
14:21:57 <andythenorth> a whole new kind of whining to enjoy :|
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14:25:02 <planetmaker> hello andythenorth
14:25:07 <andythenorth> hello :D
14:25:12 <planetmaker> and hello Belugas
14:26:25 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> <-- a display gui instead of transparency gui? @ andythenorth :-)
14:27:46 <Ammler> shouldn't that be left aligned?
14:28:10 <planetmaker> I'd align the text to the buttons
14:28:33 <planetmaker> but it's just an idea... but maybe it's also not needed at all.
14:28:46 <planetmaker> I just wonder about those stray display options as seen in the menu on the left
14:28:53 <planetmaker> That's... a peculiar place for settings
14:29:27 <planetmaker> so I wonder whether they should - aside from going to the adv. settings - also go into a transparency or reworked display gui
14:29:54 <planetmaker> but it'd be one place less to look for.
14:30:17 <planetmaker> And being able to change animation and details settings from the main menu is very helpful when joining servers with heavy savegames
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14:33:18 <Belugas> hello planetmaker :)
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15:09:43 <peter1138> hurr, 65535 known players on my minecraft server
15:09:47 <peter1138> 65536!
15:10:09 <andythenorth> @calc 16*16
15:10:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 256
15:10:15 <andythenorth> @calc 256*256
15:10:15 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 65536
15:11:10 <Terkhen> :D
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15:15:05 <TGYoshi> O_O
15:15:21 <TGYoshi> @calc 16^8
15:15:21 <DorpsGek> TGYoshi: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
15:15:26 <TGYoshi> O_O
15:15:43 <DanMacK> @calc 16/8
15:15:43 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: 2
15:15:50 <peter1138> and only 10% of them are banned...
15:15:55 <TGYoshi> @calc 16pow(8)
15:15:55 <DorpsGek> TGYoshi: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
15:16:02 <TGYoshi> :\
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15:29:22 <Belugas> a toy is always as good as the instructions that come with it :)
15:29:49 <planetmaker> only? :-(
15:30:20 <planetmaker> I think I found those toys most fun as kid which came without much instructions ;-)
15:30:27 <planetmaker> like lego :-)
15:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what? there were plenty of instructions with lego
15:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe i was way older than the average "wessi" when i got my first lego
15:31:47 <planetmaker> there were some... but they don't make lego a better thing :-)
15:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> of course we had our own plastic bricks, but they also came with instructions (or suggestions) how to assemble them
15:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the child care, they also explained how to use wooden bricks to build a wall
15:33:16 <Belugas> well.. as we are growing, some toys are getting more complexes... our friend @calc is on example :)
15:33:33 <planetmaker> :-)
15:33:35 <Belugas> plus, with lego, have you seen the pile of pages they ship with new boxes?
15:33:52 <planetmaker> I guess I haven't bought lego in a long time
15:33:56 <Belugas> so the more the instructions, the easier we can tame them!
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15:34:17 <Belugas> :)
15:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i always grumbled at the maple bot, because the help() command only ever replied the heading of the help page
15:35:10 <Belugas> #between two pieces of
15:35:12 <Belugas> #BREAD!
15:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> which is about as useless as an obscure error message as the above
15:35:55 <Belugas> #And she put me to bed
15:35:57 <Belugas> #between two pieces of
15:35:59 <Belugas> #BREAD!
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15:36:55 <Belugas> Roger Waters, Pros And Cons Of Hitch-hiking, Sexual Revolution
15:37:11 <Belugas> obscur and tormented guy ;)
15:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he's finally going mad.
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15:40:31 <Belugas> hehe
15:41:12 <Belugas> some good music he made, even if a bit repetitive. trademark, i'd say
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16:53:38 <Belugas> grmuble grumble grumble
16:53:49 <Belugas> time to go feed my frankeinstein
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16:56:10 <peter1138> uh
17:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> who is Frank Einstein?
17:02:45 <TGYoshi> blubz?
17:02:59 <TGYoshi> Uhhh
17:03:05 <TGYoshi> Why is the monorail still locked in my game?
17:03:15 <TGYoshi> Or why is it locked
17:03:20 <TGYoshi> Want to use it x]
17:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: if you don't use NewGRFs, monorail becomes available shortly after 2000. if you use NewGRFs, they usually have no monorail at all
17:05:44 <TGYoshi> the selection is grayed out at the moment, still not at 2000 yet though
17:05:52 <TGYoshi> Will try that first, ty ^^
17:06:19 <TGYoshi> Can I convert my rails fast to electric too?
17:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:07:56 <TGYoshi> Cool, how? :P
17:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> on the right of the rail toolbar is the convert button
17:09:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker:
17:09:28 <andythenorth> go find your old childhood toy
17:09:29 <andythenorth> !
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17:09:41 <TGYoshi> omg cool :P
17:09:54 <TGYoshi> thanks eddi, works great
17:10:09 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah, andythenorth :-)
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17:11:39 <daxcimix> hello!
17:12:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth: our 'villa' is not there ;-) - but on a 20 year old lego house I'd not expect that :-P
17:12:10 <planetmaker> hello daxcimix
17:12:26 <daxcimix> hi planetmaker :D
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17:14:52 <daxcimix> guys some times ago i read a thread in openttd's forum, about a patch to make in ottd a kind of timeline... will it implemented? (sorry for my english!!)
17:14:52 <andythenorth> planetmaker: everything is there :)
17:15:00 <andythenorth> not always affordable :P
17:15:25 <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'timeline'?
17:15:49 <daxcimix> set order with time (hh:mm) and not with days/ticket
17:16:03 <daxcimix> the possibility to set a departure time
17:16:05 <planetmaker> and... 'will it be implemented' depends on either developer interest or someone who writes a really proper patch for that.
17:16:18 <planetmaker> ah. Somehow the author abandoned that. Sadly
17:16:25 <daxcimix> d'oh!
17:16:30 <daxcimix> :D
17:16:33 <planetmaker> at lease I've not seen an update there. So ...
17:16:48 <daxcimix> yeah, thank you mate!!!
17:16:52 <planetmaker> not in 1.1 then :-)
17:17:13 <daxcimix> ahahahahahahah ok :D atm i'm running 22070
17:18:24 <daxcimix> but i can't understand is the trunk version a kind of beta?
17:18:50 <planetmaker> trunk is alpha
17:19:10 <planetmaker> but indeed our betas are somewhat re-labeled trunk versions
17:21:37 <daxcimix> ahhh ok :D but the trunk version include same features of the stable and some novelty?
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17:25:16 <Terkhen> daxcimix:
17:26:00 <planetmaker> about yes
17:26:21 <daxcimix> thank you Terkhen :D
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17:42:51 <Wolf01> hello
17:45:17 * Sacro doesn't understand german signalling D:
17:46:26 * ZirconiumX doesn't need to understand it
17:46:46 <Sacro> that one was green and 3 yellows :\
17:47:15 <Sacro> oh, that means 40kph limit
17:47:27 <supermop_> are you driving a train lost in germany?
17:47:31 <Sacro> Yes
17:47:44 <Sacro> class 380
17:48:23 <supermop_> Such would make a good formulaic buddy comedy
17:50:11 <supermop_> couple of guys have a wild and crazy night (bachelor party, graduation, whatever), cut to them confused and driving a train in Germany, no idea how they got there, one of them is trying to get on irc to find out what German signaling means.
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17:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: the main problem is that there are like 5 completely different signalling systems
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17:51:59 <ZirconiumX> @supermop_,with everyone at the other side of the computer banging their heads on a concrete block
17:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro:
17:53:48 <supermop_> I smell a screenplay
17:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: likely the green/yellow told you "proceed with speed limit 40km/h" and the other two yellow told you "next signal is red"
17:54:55 * ZirconiumX looks at link and gets confused, because he doesn't know German
17:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: click the five links at the bottom. they have pictures ;)
17:56:35 <ZirconiumX> hmmm
17:56:36 <ZirconiumX> Hp 1 - Fahrt
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17:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: it gets worse if you have one of these: they have blinking lights and stuff :p
17:56:49 <ZirconiumX> this is not a good thing in english
17:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: there is that anecdote about The Queen visiting denmark
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17:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: they had to cover the elevator sign that said "i fart"
17:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> [meaning: "in motion"]
17:58:28 <ZirconiumX> heh
17:58:34 <supermop_> i feel like Elizabeth wouldn't be too offendended
17:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: i don't really know whether it's actually true
17:59:34 <Prof_Frink> That's what they were worried about. She'd take it as an invitation.
17:59:43 * ZirconiumX wonders why all drivers appear to be female...
18:00:02 <ZirconiumX> ...She can see...
18:00:17 <Prof_Frink> Shesmovedon
18:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: my guess is you used a stupid translator
18:00:52 <ZirconiumX> Oh god here we go again
18:00:54 <supermop_> revised screenplay: Queen Elizabeth II winds up driving the train and going on IRC to read about german signalling
18:01:02 <ZirconiumX>
18:01:11 <ZirconiumX> Google Translate
18:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: why would a giant cruise ship care about signalling?
18:01:36 <supermop_> II not 2
18:01:53 <supermop_> and, its an ocean liner, not a cruise ship
18:01:57 <Prof_Frink> Queen Elizabeth 2: Queen Harder.
18:02:04 <daxcimix> have to go!!!
18:02:06 <daxcimix> bye bye!
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18:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: really, it completely twists around the meaning of the sentence
18:02:49 <supermop_> Queen Elizabeth I driving an ICE trying to learn about german signaling would also work
18:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: "She" should be "They", meaning "the signals"
18:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and "see" should be "show"
18:03:46 <ZirconiumX> Eddi|zuHause: Babelfish is somewhat better
18:04:04 <ZirconiumX> ...They indicate to it...
18:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is more closely what it means
18:04:26 <ZirconiumX> Now drivers are objects not people
18:04:41 <ZirconiumX> However
18:04:45 <ZirconiumX> ...Hauptsignale are probably...
18:05:08 <ZirconiumX> BLF has no idea what Hauptsignale means
18:05:17 <supermop_> i have an idea
18:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, read both texts and maybe you get an idea ;)
18:05:23 <ZirconiumX> Main signals
18:05:37 <ZirconiumX> I'll do so later - I gtg
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18:06:53 <Belugas> from miles and miles and miles and miles
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18:53:43 <V453000> im sorry but what exactly do I need to type in the console to change autoclean_protected? :O I typed rcon <the password> set "autoclean_protected = 0" and it does nothing :|
18:53:49 <V453000> or ... does not work :)
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18:56:05 <V453000> anyone please?
18:57:59 <Terkhen> shouldn't it be rcon <password> "set ... "?
18:59:56 <V453000> I thought so
19:00:10 <V453000> or ... tried both
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19:05:18 <SmatZ> V453000: rcon "set autoclean_protected 0"
19:05:31 <SmatZ> apostrophes are important
19:06:03 <V453000> ah, thx, that is about the last possibility that I did not try :D
19:06:45 <SmatZ> :)
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19:07:31 <Prof_Frink> I see no apostrophes.
19:07:56 <SmatZ> I see no Prof_Frink
19:08:16 <DJNekkid> are there any known document that could tell me what color in the palette that translates to what colors from the CC's?
19:08:57 <DJNekkid> i mean, there are 8 shades of cc-color
19:09:36 <DJNekkid> but on some colors arent it too easy to 'guess' what it might translate to if set to, say, yellow or orange
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19:15:35 <He||isH> hello, how to run a scenario on a dedicated server?
19:17:46 <DJNekkid> openttd -D -g path_to/scenario ?
19:18:22 <V453000> just load the scenario offline and save tha game :) then load the .sav
19:18:41 <DJNekkid> that is also an option
19:18:54 <DJNekkid> atleast that works with the -g path_to/save.sav
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19:32:31 <He||isH> not working
19:35:26 <Ammler> He||isH: "not working" is no proper error description
19:36:16 <andythenorth> it's not RTS or a business simulator
19:36:18 <andythenorth> it's a MUD!
19:36:23 <V453000> DEATHMATCH
19:36:24 <__ln__> all work and no play makes jack a dull boy
19:36:25 <He||isH> and runs random map
19:36:26 * andythenorth goes north
19:37:08 <andythenorth> when is 1.1 going golden?
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19:37:16 <andythenorth> my FIRS download counts are underwhelming :P
19:37:21 <andythenorth> (1.1.x needed)
19:37:34 <planetmaker> You'll have to have a few weeks patience for the stable
19:37:41 <andythenorth> patience?
19:37:43 <andythenorth> what is this concept?
19:37:50 <andythenorth> is it a european thing?
19:38:05 <planetmaker> Something I heart somewhere... no detailed idea, though
19:38:11 <planetmaker> people seem to praise it, though
19:42:29 <dihedral> patience is a virtue
19:42:40 <dihedral> virtue was never really one of my vitues though
19:44:06 <He||isH> Ammler, sorry, even a random map will not start. may be a console command?
19:45:05 <Ammler> He||isH: does it generate a random map then?
19:45:06 <He||isH> same wiht save game
19:45:32 <Ammler> does "openttd -D" work?
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19:52:18 <He||isH> Ammler, I have Gentoo and compile OpenTTD with the flag dedicated. i run openttd dedicated server by a script /etc/init.d/openttd start
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19:52:40 <dihedral> lol
19:52:47 <dihedral> possibly as root too? :-P
19:53:08 <dihedral> Ammler, are you sure the -g flag accepts a path and not just a scn/sav name?
19:53:33 <dihedral> i would expect the same behaviour as with the -c flag
19:53:57 <Ammler> dihedral: path is fine
19:55:14 <Ammler> He||isH: gentoo has a init script for openttd?
19:55:24 <Ammler> how ugly is that :-)
19:55:40 <dihedral> running it as root - i think that is more ugly
19:56:32 <Ammler> well, maybe the init script does make a kind of sudo :-)
19:56:56 <dihedral> then he cannot access .openttd in /root - at least i would be surprised if it could
19:57:11 <Ammler> He||isH: just switch to a "normal" user and run openttd -D
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19:58:08 <zydeco> greetings
19:59:02 <Ammler> well, there are a lot gentoo guys here, they should know the init script, SmatZ :-P
19:59:35 <dihedral> i hope this is not a "gentoo guy" type of thing to do - running openttd as root :-P
19:59:45 <dihedral> i would actually expect more from gentoo "users"
20:00:07 <Ammler> many init script switch user
20:00:52 <planetmaker> [20:53] <dihedral> Ammler, are you sure the -g flag accepts a path and not just a scn/sav name? <-- I know it accepts a path for .sav files
20:02:34 <dihedral> Ammler, then he should check the permissions on the scn he probably put there himself
20:02:43 <Ammler> I used init script also to start "user deamons" until I found @reboot for crontab
20:02:53 <dihedral> :-P
20:03:42 <dihedral> [2011-02-15 21:03:23] dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started!
20:03:48 <dihedral> that's what i get
20:04:08 <Ammler> when you do what?
20:04:50 <Alberth> hello zydeco
20:05:28 <dihedral> -g test
20:05:38 <dihedral> (no save not svn, not even a file)
20:05:41 <dihedral> [2011-02-15 21:05:10] dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting
20:05:41 <dihedral> [2011-02-15 21:05:10] dbg: [net] Dedicated server could not be started, aborting
20:05:54 <dihedral> follwes the map generation and openttd quits
20:06:33 <Ammler> yes, that might be worth a bugrepot
20:06:51 <He||isH> done, scenario is run
20:07:01 <He||isH> 10x ]:)
20:07:15 <Ammler> He||isH: what was your fix?
20:07:45 <He||isH> use flag zlib on and recompile
20:08:01 <dihedral> lol
20:08:09 <Ammler> you were able to compile openttd without zlib?
20:08:21 <dihedral> He||isH, i really would suggest you do not run openttd as root (just in case you do)
20:08:27 <Ammler> I would have expected a error exit with it
20:08:56 <dihedral> #
20:08:56 <dihedral> [2011-02-15 22:30:42] dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
20:08:56 <dihedral> #
20:08:56 <dihedral> Internal error: Loader for 'zlib' is not available.
20:08:56 <dihedral> #
20:08:57 <dihedral> [2011-02-15 22:30:42] dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started!
20:09:01 <dihedral> ^ it did tell us
20:09:10 * dihedral grr's at #
20:09:38 <He||isH> dihedral, 10x, i know how to use linux ];)
20:10:05 <He||isH> Ammler,
20:10:10 <He||isH> Ammler, yes
20:10:27 <Ammler> hmm, it does allow to build without zlib but not without lzma
20:10:34 <dihedral> He||isH, that's what many people say :-D
20:11:44 <dihedral> <- including me actually :-D hehe
20:12:13 <Ammler> He||isH: maybe the gentoo script is a bit silly, then you should report that to the maintainer there
20:12:31 <Mazur> planetmaker, would you like me to put up a new comment, with your patch, in my flyspray entry?
20:14:14 <planetmaker> if you like, sure
20:16:03 <Ammler> well, not maybe, without zlib is wrong
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20:20:02 <Alberth> Mazur: dividing a number by 2 is too complicated?
20:23:23 <planetmaker> quite :-P
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21:33:42 <Zuu> Hmm, so we have to wait 2 weeks for the title game poll result.
21:34:32 <Zuu> Good work with the title game poll planetmaker
21:34:54 <planetmaker> well, I want to give people some time to vote...
21:35:03 <planetmaker> which actually reminds me... title page :-)
21:36:01 <Zuu> Also I noticed that the final date is not in your forum post - only on the title game-website.
21:36:38 <Zuu> A note on the website would possible do quite a bit to the number of poll casts.
21:38:49 <planetmaker> good point with the closing date
21:38:54 <Zuu> Maybe a voteing template for usage in emails would help your work. Though just having to collect three votes for each person is also easier than voting method that we had last time.
21:39:22 <planetmaker> if you follow the link to my e-mail in the titlepage - it's a pre-made one :-)
21:39:29 <planetmaker> you just have to type in 3 numbers
21:39:51 <planetmaker> but it requires a configured e-mail client
21:41:14 <Zuu> Yes, and even while I have a configured email client that isn't that heavy, I really don't use it for outgoing email.
21:42:25 <Zuu> I guess a vast amount of people only ues web mail for their private emails.
21:43:10 <Zuu> But I see you have made a template there :-)
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21:47:25 <planetmaker> <-- title page announcement (without links, I'll add them)
21:47:33 <planetmaker> comments?
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21:47:58 <Belugas> yes, i'm tired
21:48:46 <Rubidium> Zuu: email adds a (small) bit of a threshold for trying to fool the system
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21:48:48 <Belugas> there is notong for point 2 and 4 and 6
21:48:53 <Belugas> thing
21:48:55 <Belugas> nothing
21:48:57 <Belugas> not a thing
21:48:57 <Rubidium> (or rather against trying to fool it)
21:49:08 <zydeco> I think they are lines, not points
21:49:14 <perk11> title game #12 is very nice, but why no vehicles :(
21:49:25 <Belugas> no, there are numbers with a dot
21:49:52 <Belugas> ho... yeah
21:49:53 <Belugas> right
21:49:56 <Belugas> whoooo...
21:49:56 <Zuu> Rubidium: I agree on that and I hope I didn't suggest that the act of sending an email should be removed.
21:50:18 <planetmaker> Na, LordMwa or alike suggested that
21:50:41 <Ammler> planetmaker: can I vote for the same game multiple times?
21:50:56 <Mazur> Alberth: It's not for just this game, I'd like to know it more precisely, also when it's not 50%, makes it also easier to track how a city's local traffic is behaving, if the percentage falls time and again, you knwo to go fix somthing.
21:51:15 <Zuu> Just that if you request people to follow a template when submitting votes, then you could possible reduce the work load for the person who has to count all the votes.
21:51:51 <Belugas> "Everyone may vote once and nominate and rank his or her top three entries." -> "Everyone may only vote once, nominating and ranking his or her top three entries."
21:52:09 <Zuu> This template could just be a bit of text to paste in your email and fill in your votes, just as what planetmaker already did - I just didn't see it.
21:53:28 <Belugas> "The decision on which of those entries will be used will be done in two steps, two voting rounds" ->
21:53:28 <Belugas> "The designation of winning entries will be done in two steps, two voting rounds"
21:55:11 <Belugas> "Upon closing of votes the results will be published and detail." -> "Upon closure of polls, the results will be published and detail."
21:55:48 <Mazur> Not: "detailed"?
21:56:04 <Mazur> Or "in detail"?
21:56:19 <planetmaker> Ammler: no
21:56:45 <planetmaker> a ranking means to not say "this one gets 1st, 2nd and 3rd place all at once" ;-)
21:57:30 <planetmaker> good ideas Belugas. Thanks
21:57:44 <zydeco> what results? who voted for what?
21:57:48 <zydeco> :p
21:57:56 <Zuu> If you want to promote one as much as you can, give 2nd and 3rd place to two in your opinion bad title games and hope not everyone else follow the same idea :-p
21:58:15 <Mazur> And what are their ICBM coordinates, so we may punish them?
21:58:49 <ABCRic> Zuu: so the 1st place will be the best and the 2nd and 3rd will be the worst? :D
21:59:36 <Zuu> If out of all those title games only can find one acceptable and want to play your cards that way, yes.
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21:59:45 <Belugas> planetmaker, i could do more, but i need to go, i'
21:59:47 <Belugas> m
21:59:54 <Belugas> freaking tired and my wife awaits me
22:00:00 <Belugas> so.. bye for now
22:01:26 <Belugas> ho... and i have a Boss BD-2 pedal to try tonight :D
22:01:34 <planetmaker> bye Belugas & enjoy
22:01:38 <planetmaker> <-- zydeco
22:01:43 <planetmaker> latest news
22:02:13 <Zuu> ABCRic: Or you throw away your 2nd vote on the 1.1 title game :-)
22:02:20 *** ccfreak2k has quit IRC
22:03:38 <ABCRic> Zuu: too confusing :P :)
22:04:06 <Ammler> zuu, 9 is yours?
22:04:24 <TGYoshi> new title screen?
22:04:34 <Zuu> planetmaker: Btw the "all games" link in the news is broken.
22:04:54 <Zuu> Ammler: Yes
22:05:00 <planetmaker> Mazur: thanks, fixed, too
22:05:24 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22088 /branches/1.1/src/core/ (pool_func.hpp pool_type.hpp): [1.1] -Revert (r22041): assertions to check whether Pools are actually checked before allocation still triggered in some corner cases, so leave it in trunk but remove it from the 1.1 branch
22:05:39 <Mazur> Yw.
22:06:54 <__ln__> 06:45
22:07:49 <planetmaker> thanks, Zuu
22:09:07 <__ln__> 04:30
22:10:21 <__ln__> countdown paused
22:10:49 <planetmaker> hm?
22:11:20 <__ln__>
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22:12:58 <__ln__> delayed until tomorrow
22:14:44 <planetmaker> ah. Well. That 4:30h is a deliberate check point
22:15:17 <__ln__> it actually paused at 04:01
22:23:05 <DanMacK> Later all
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22:44:30 <planetmaker> well, happy voting folks, the first dozen people voted already :-)
22:44:40 <planetmaker> I'll sleep meanwhile :-) Good night
22:48:33 <Rubidium> good night oh maker of planets ;)
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22:54:44 <Wolf01> 'night
22:54:57 <__ln__> night wolf01
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