IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-02-07
00:04:24 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
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00:05:59 <z-MaTRiX> waiting on r222222
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00:40:20 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX: r222222 will take many years
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01:31:32 <perk11> on what revision 1.1.0 beta 5 is based?
01:32:51 <FauxFaux> svn log --limit 2 svn://
01:34:19 <perk11> ty
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01:59:38 <Chris_Booth_> does anyone know if there is a limit of the size of a town(not a city)
02:00:07 <Chris_Booth_> since I am trying to grow one but it just doesn't seem to want to grow over 110k
02:01:55 <z-MaTRiX> win
02:02:24 <z-MaTRiX> created an xorg conf file, added custom monitor information and kde4 uses it
02:02:25 <z-MaTRiX> ;>
02:02:43 <z-MaTRiX> 1792x1344
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03:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth_: it's a balance of growth vs. shrinking, not an actual limit
03:02:56 <Chris_Booth_> it has grown to 115k now but has got really slow, and that is with growth rate set to 4
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03:05:51 <Nite> remember having 200k ppl
03:06:20 <Nite> and there where endless servers that had huuuuuge cities
03:06:29 <Nite> but is there a limit?
03:07:12 <Nite> there mus t be some theoretical limit
03:07:47 <perk11> a map size and close cities should limit it
03:08:07 <Chris_Booth_> well Nite I have got a city of 1million befor
03:08:21 <Chris_Booth_> but that wasn't at its limit
03:08:34 <perk11> wow
03:08:36 <Chris_Booth_> but due to growth factors towns grow slower than cities
03:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth_: it depends on various stuff
03:09:02 <Nite> honestly i dont remember what was the bigest i saw
03:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth_: long road tunnels from the town center to the outskirts may help
03:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris_Booth_: dead end roads hurt
03:09:33 <Nite> a simple grid?
03:09:39 <supermop> conceivable on coulbe make a newgrf with a house that help 1,000,000 people
03:09:43 <Chris_Booth_> I am using a complex grid and bridges
03:09:45 <Nite> later delete some roads of the grid skeleton
03:09:53 <supermop> *one could make
03:09:58 <Nite> why bridges tunnels
03:10:00 <Nite> ?
03:10:23 <Chris_Booth_> my metro network runs in tunnels
03:10:25 <Nite> r u playing anything online atm? chris_Booth_
03:10:35 <supermop> holds
03:10:36 <Chris_Booth_> I am playing openttdcoop
03:10:42 <supermop> cannot type at all
03:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: town growth walks along the road network. the longer the roads, the more likely it may fail to build a house
03:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: so when you have long tunnels, the "distance" is reduced, thus it may be more likely to succeed
03:11:20 <Chris_Booth_> same effect with bridges
03:11:27 <Nite> ok the tunnel does not count as distance
03:11:36 <Chris_Booth_> but they dont run at the same level as my trains
03:11:44 <Chris_Booth_> they only count as 2
03:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: tunnels don't have crossings. at each crossing, it may do a wrong decision
03:11:54 <Chris_Booth_> 1 for entrance 1 for exit portal
03:12:08 <Nite> but this doesent affect cargo payment i assume?
03:12:28 <Chris_Booth_> why would it?
03:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: what does that have to do with cargo?
03:12:44 <Chris_Booth_> cargo payment is to do with distance traveled in time traveled
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03:13:24 <Nite> because cargo is payed more the more squares it is transported
03:13:39 <Nite> but i guess just the two endpoints are calculated here
03:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: but only the distance of the stations count
03:13:46 <Nite> (station signs)
03:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: not the path inbetween
03:13:58 <Nite> as i thought, clear
03:21:16 <perk11> what's for admin_password in openttd.cfg?
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03:56:34 <z-MaTRiX> sálálá
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04:02:34 <__ln__> english only
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04:28:39 <perk11> really, there isn't any information on wiki or elsewhere on that admin_password setting
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05:28:13 <CaNsA> hey dudes,
05:28:55 <CaNsA> how can i add grf to an existing game in ottd r22002?
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05:39:34 <planetmaker> wow. You managed to ask the same question in the forums as also asked in the thread posted in previously. Congratulations.
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07:47:02 <dihedral> good morning
07:47:11 <kamnet> good morning
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07:51:48 <planetmaker> moin
07:53:11 <dihedral> if foundations support the ground you are building on - why not let foundations support the ground that would collaps, too?
07:53:28 <dihedral> e.g. with making one tile level on a slope
07:53:41 <dihedral> :-P
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08:41:15 <Terkhen> good morning
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09:31:40 <dihedral> anybody familiar with veeam?
09:31:51 <dihedral> i need to restore a single file
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09:50:42 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22006 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#4480]: smoke/sparks of trains would be shown under bridges, or rather through bridges
09:51:38 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22007 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Change: only show one AI per unique ID instead of all versions in the output of "openttd -h"
09:53:12 <planetmaker> ah, the latter is nice :-)
09:55:21 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22008 /trunk/config.lib: -Add [FS#4470]: log the command that invocated configure in config.log
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11:09:06 <Xaroth> (dutch site) << in case somebody missed it yesterday, ottd got tweakered...
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11:14:41 <blathijs> Hmm, the comment on that page seems to have a useful complaint
11:15:44 <blathijs> "Remove: Settings for vehicle speed in the vehicle view, long date in status bar, drawing of bridge pillars, support for depot orders, time tabling and joining of stations upon building" from the changelog is slightly confusing
11:15:50 <blathijs> Rubidium: ^^
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11:18:11 <planetmaker> it says Remove: first item, 2nd item, 3rd item...
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11:38:21 <blathijs> planetmaker: I mean that people might not interpret "Settings for" correctly, and thing those features are removed entirely
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12:04:52 <DanMacK> Hey all
12:04:59 <Terkhen> hi DanMacK
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14:42:55 <Belugas> hello
14:45:02 <Scuddles> oh
14:52:11 <DanMacK> Hey Scuddles
14:53:08 <Scuddles> Hello DanMacK
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14:59:16 <Wolf01> hello
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15:34:00 <supermop> hello
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15:38:58 <planetmaker> hi supermop & Wolf01
15:39:28 <supermop> how is it going planetmaker?
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16:26:19 <Rubidium> blathijs: I guess I should start using parenthesis to separate the parts
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17:36:02 <DanMacK> Hey Lakie
17:36:12 <Lakie> Hi DanMacK
17:39:09 <planetmaker> salut you two :-)
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17:47:14 <blathijs> Rubidium: Perhaps add a extra note "These features can no longer be disabled and are now always active" for the final release or something
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17:53:18 <Nite> Hi
17:53:54 <Nite> the old mammoth trains setting was an equivalent to the max trainlenght 64 setting ?
17:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, the max train length is 50
17:54:46 <Nite> so why can i set it to 64 ?
17:54:56 <Nite> you mean stationsize is 50 max?
17:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know, but you can only have 100 vehicles
17:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> in one train
17:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> at least you used to...
17:55:51 <Nite> i try that (stationsize is also 64 btw)
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18:00:41 <peter1138> Well, are you saying that the new option should be limited to the range of the old option... for... some reason?
18:02:03 <Nite> seems teh 50 limit has fallen i can do 64 trains even with very short wagons
18:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting. never tried in a long time...
18:04:59 <Nite> how do i get information on how many wagons a train has without counting - max load / singel waggon load might work
18:05:47 <Nite> i like long trains though large station sizes make beaming toomcuh possible to not do it ;)
18:06:13 <V453000> you use 50 tile long trains?
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18:06:27 <V453000> or longer ...
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18:06:45 <Nite> i test it with 64 train/station now
18:07:02 <V453000> I am not asking about testing but casual use :)
18:07:25 <Nite> is a fixed minimum spacing between industries possible
18:07:40 <planetmaker> yes
18:08:03 <Nite> - off ocurse it is more experimental atm - buzt i plan to have a game with 32 at least
18:08:20 <Nite> ok and how do i set that?
18:09:20 <planetmaker> (re-)code your industry newgrf
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18:09:43 <Nite> (if i set the min space between industries to doubel the station size i would not be able to beam)
18:10:02 <planetmaker> but there's somewhere in the adv. setting a min separation setting, too, IIRC
18:10:07 <Nite> can i set it for ottd in general in some config file?
18:10:17 <Nite> i will look for it
18:11:20 <planetmaker> settings->economy->industries->flat area around industries: n tile(s)
18:11:47 <planetmaker> but that does not generally stop industries being build adjacent.
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18:12:53 <Nite> what is teh "flat area around industries" setting?
18:13:06 <Nite> oh you answered before asking
18:14:27 <planetmaker> :-)
18:15:39 <Nite> also flat around indus. is max 4 tiles
18:18:08 <Nite> i cannot switch off the ability to construct secondary industries :-O
18:18:49 <Nite> ?
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18:23:10 <planetmaker> Nite: make it too expensive ;-)
18:23:26 <Nite> whats "variety distribution" in landscape generation for?
18:24:02 <planetmaker> not a few million but a few billion or trillion
18:24:13 <planetmaker> feature size so to speak
18:24:41 <Nite> you mean with basecost mod? i guess
18:26:39 <planetmaker> sure
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18:27:47 <Nite> i always forget which fiel to delete to get the standard advancedsettings
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18:28:52 <Rubidium> Nite: I guess you accidentally removed the wrong file in that case
18:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the wrong file is the one called readme.txt
18:29:23 <Zuu> Especially if you try to get the standard settings in a running game ^^
18:29:38 <planetmaker> -.-
18:29:58 <Nite> also a little tiny detai i miss for some time in ottd is the red blinking square that indicates what tiel to change if you are unable to build a certain part of track ... (btw)
18:30:26 <Nite> - no i did not delete anything wrong ;)
18:30:57 <Nite> - i never grasped what readme.txt files are for anyway ;P
18:31:20 <planetmaker> you're not alone ;-)
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18:32:28 <Nite> ok ok - i read 6.0
18:33:42 <frosch123> evening
18:33:52 <planetmaker> hello frosch123
18:33:54 <Nite> hi
18:33:57 <frosch123> hello frogs !
18:45:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22009 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by KorneySan
18:45:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: croatian - 11 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: estonian - 3 changes by notAbot
18:45:52 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: romanian - 10 changes by kkmic
18:45:52 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: russian - 5 changes by KorneySan, Lone_Wolf, perk11
18:45:58 <bb10X> Why do roadvehicles only use 1 of the 2 lanes on one way roads?
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18:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> bb10: because the overtaking code can't handle it
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18:49:27 <z5000man> Wait, TTD? Is this the open-source of Transport Tycoon?
18:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:49:55 <glx> no
18:49:59 <z5000man> no way, I love that game!
18:50:02 <glx> it's the deluxe one
18:50:18 <z5000man> okay, so like 1996 or so?
18:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we are in 2011, like the rest of the world.
18:50:51 <planetmaker> like 2011
18:51:02 <DanMacK> Transport Tycoon is Eternal
18:51:06 <z5000man> ah, I see.
18:51:10 <DanMacK> Dates do not matter
18:51:24 <z5000man> Are there a lot of players online now?
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18:52:16 <planetmaker> yes and no. Depends on the definition of both 'lots' and 'online'
18:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of online players is probably below 1% of the total players
18:52:45 <planetmaker> I'd bet, too
18:52:58 * DanMacK has played online and enjoyed it...
18:53:08 <planetmaker> :-)
18:53:14 <z5000man> really? wow. Transport Tycoon was the foundation to so many games.
18:53:14 * DanMacK prefers to play solo though... AI's are generally just annoying
18:53:17 <planetmaker> That's why I got stuck with this game...
18:53:35 <planetmaker> ...playing online got me somewhat addicted to this game :-)
18:53:45 <DanMacK> It was the foundation, and that's why it's the most solid of all of them
18:54:33 * DanMacK has been playing off and on since it came out
18:54:43 <DanMacK> Now however, mostly on
18:55:15 <z5000man> My favorite game was on a US map, I started it in 1950 with 3 AIs, and played it through. A lot of time, but a lot of fun.
18:55:40 <Nite> also we often are asleep while playing ;P
18:56:10 <DanMacK> Should try that on Open TTD, starting on a large US Map with 3 new AI's and the North American Renewal Set :P
18:56:35 <z5000man> Do they have a custom US vehicle set?!?!
18:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:56:49 <z5000man> I might die.
18:56:50 <Nite> try nars2
18:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and a huge USA map
18:57:41 <z5000man> I just switched to linux, but I will try and figure this out. It sounds like major reminiscing...
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18:58:11 <DanMacK> several
18:58:54 <DanMacK> The North American Renewal Set is all trains
18:59:23 <Nite> there are some servers with it online
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19:02:35 <Zuu> z5000man: Shouldn't be much/any harder on Linux than on Windows depending on how new you are on Linux.
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19:19:27 <DanMacK> Hey Andy
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19:26:53 <z5000man> Okay, it's up and going, but I don't have sound...
19:27:29 * dihedral sends z5000man a beep
19:29:08 <Zuu> z5000man: Do you have OpenSFX or
19:29:15 <z5000man> opensfx
19:30:34 <Zuu> no clue really. maybe it is related to the sound system that OpenTTD uses and is muted somehow.
19:31:06 <Zuu> (did you go to the music window and make sure the internal volume control in OpenTTD is > 0? )
19:33:16 <dihedral> does sound work with everything else?
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19:35:30 <z-MaTRiX> hi
19:35:45 <dihedral> ah - you got your server back then, ey? :-D
19:36:08 <z-MaTRiX> 30224 < z-MaTRiX> created an xorg conf file, added custom monitor information and kde4 uses it
19:36:11 <z-MaTRiX> 030225 < z-MaTRiX> ;>
19:36:14 <z-MaTRiX> 030242 < z-MaTRiX> 1792x1344
19:38:29 <z5000man> yeah, but the songs were just rotating through very fast and making no sound on the menus either.
19:39:06 <Ammler> z5000man: that sounds more like music not sound :-)
19:39:47 <Ammler> you might need timidity
19:42:04 <z5000man> I thought maybe it might have something to do with having to direct the program through pulseaudio, because I was having problems on some other programs too. But I really don't know much about it.
19:42:50 <dihedral> i use pulse
19:44:20 <Ammler> z5000man: so timitdy is installed?
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19:53:50 <simon_> hej hej! I recently saved a multiplayer game and would like to continue it. Unfortunately I am not playing the company I used to play while in multiplayer...
19:53:57 <simon_> is there a way to change company without cheating?
19:54:05 <Zuu> Also for music you need a music pack.
19:54:19 <Zuu> But if it skips the songs you probably got songs :-)
19:55:13 <planetmaker> simon_: what's wrong about cheating the correct company?
19:55:54 <planetmaker> would you use it if it was called "switch companies" as it is in on a server?
19:57:58 <simon_> if you cheat, you won't get listed in the highscore table...
19:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> simon_: the other option would be joining a multiplayer game hosted locally, but you will need twice the processor power
19:59:12 <simon_> I mean, there could be a paramter to load a game, that you play company #nr
19:59:36 <simon_> or something like that
19:59:50 <simon_> yea, I won#t host the game...
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20:00:34 <z5000man> I went through the install on timidity and the configure action ended with this line "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
20:00:42 <dihedral> ctrl+c will as far as i know give you the only option, or host a server simply by loading the save game in the 'start server' window
20:00:50 <dihedral> then you can simply 'move' to the company
20:01:09 <simon_> jah, I know... but thanks anyt
20:01:10 <simon_> way
20:01:15 <dihedral> it will not affect anything else, as nobody will be able to connect to your server at home unless you have setup forwarding
20:01:23 <dihedral> and it will not show up in the list
20:01:32 <dihedral> if you have forwarding configured, chose another port ;-)
20:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> z5000man: use your package manager to install
20:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> z5000man: don't compile unless you need to
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20:06:15 <Rubidium> simon_: just start a non-dedicated server with that game (without advertising), and then join the right company. You might need to "spectate" before you're able to join another company
20:06:30 *** enr1x has joined #openttd
20:07:32 <dihedral> Rubidium, can you clarify that? the 'spectate before join' part
20:08:01 <simon_> he means that you dont join or create a company
20:08:07 <simon_> right from the beginning
20:08:24 <simon_> you can also just watch a game without actually playing a company
20:08:33 <dihedral> you start as company one, i do not see why you need to join specators first before joining another company ;-)
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20:09:47 <Rubidium> dihedral: I'm not sure that it works from company to company, so instead of checking it I wrote that it might be needed
20:09:57 <Rubidium> like saying you might need to relogin before some changes take effect
20:10:03 <dihedral> ah :-)
20:10:07 <dihedral> i was just curious ;-)
20:10:20 <dihedral> yes, you should be able to simply move between companies freely :-)
20:10:21 <Rubidium> in 99% of the times it works just right, but it's just the 1% that goes wrong you don't want to write a second message for
20:10:23 <dihedral> especially as server
20:10:40 <Rubidium> I'm not talking about the "move" command though
20:10:51 <dihedral> eh?
20:11:38 <Nite> (a merge companies option comes to mind here ... btw )
20:12:07 <z5000man> okay. Timidity is installed
20:12:18 <dihedral> which would be the same as buying it out
20:14:42 <Rubidium> dihedral: you know... the company windows having the "join" button and the company dropdown (occasionally) having the "spectate" option?
20:14:46 <Nite> true, teh same but without bancrupcy before
20:15:16 <Rubidium> z5000man: are you trying to make the music play or the sound effects?
20:15:44 <Rubidium> if it's the music, you might need to manually start the music in-game as when it fails to play the music it automatically stops trying
20:16:09 <Nite> just merge two existing companies if two players agree ... (not a must have, but a often thought idea i guess)
20:16:40 <z5000man> Rubidium: either would be nice
20:17:40 <z5000man> quick question first. Is the game supposed to be installed in a certain directory?
20:17:42 <Rubidium> known-bugs.txt lists some problems with PulseAudio; it may be related with your problem
20:18:09 <z5000man> ill check it out
20:34:20 <Nite> no ceartain directory afaik
20:36:09 <andythenorth> DanMacK: salt cargo for FIRS?
20:37:15 <DanMacK> Was thinking so
20:37:50 <DanMacK> Can go to Stockyard/packing plant, fish harbour and possibly builder's yard
20:37:54 <andythenorth> where does it come from?
20:37:57 <DanMacK> Can also serve as a source of chemicals
20:38:03 <DanMacK> Salt mine
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20:45:45 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22010 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Feature-ette [FS#4131]: [NewGRF] Test all possible industry layouts during construction and add another pony to andy's stables
20:46:37 <andythenorth> hah ha
20:46:45 <andythenorth> will that make 1.1?
20:46:47 <andythenorth> or too late?
20:47:17 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22011 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Rename a few variables and enhance code clearity
20:47:53 <xiong> It seems my vehicles don't service when their service interval is reached. I've checked; and it's not a marginal thing: I just watched a road vehicle scheduled to service every 105 days bypass a depot although it was over 150 days since serviced. What can cause this, aside from setting 'no service if no breakdowns'? Is timetabling involved? Do go-to-depot orders screw up automatic servicing? Do all pros just order servicing explicitl
20:47:53 <xiong> y, or force it, so the issue is considered trivial?
20:48:09 <planetmaker> that'll be in 1.1
20:48:12 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22012 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Test all industry layouts also when prospecting
20:48:16 <andythenorth> great
20:48:26 <andythenorth> I can use that :)
20:48:35 <planetmaker> :-P Who would guess ;-)
20:48:36 <andythenorth> making FIRS use 1.1 is no problem
20:50:02 <xiong> Oh, and yes, I have another hypothesis: that non-stop orders appear to suppress servicing. Trouble is, none of these seem to hold consistently. I've googled, wiki'd, forumed, and experimented. What am I missing?
20:52:02 <planetmaker> oh, salt cargo? That'd open the option to create Stockfisk ;-)
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20:52:10 <planetmaker> And re-build the town of Kristiansund ;-)
20:52:22 <planetmaker> and ship that stockfisk to all over the world ;-)
20:52:35 <xiong> Lutefisk.
20:53:59 <supermop> salt would be great for pre- and early industrial economies
20:54:05 <planetmaker> yeah :-)
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20:54:15 <planetmaker> much better than valuables :-)
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20:54:55 <supermop> a little less needed in a post modern world, but essential before refrigeration et al
20:55:11 <planetmaker> that's why I mentioned stockfisk ;-)
20:55:14 <supermop> also, it is needed to make ice cream
20:55:30 <DanMacK> well, the brine is... ;)
20:55:36 <supermop> pickles!
20:55:39 <planetmaker> :-)
20:55:59 * DanMacK starts drawing a pickle car for NARS...
20:56:12 <planetmaker> salt car!
20:56:17 <andythenorth> we need somewhere for veggies to go :)
20:56:31 <supermop> if your train is too late delivering BEER, it becomes vinegar, and you have to reroute it to the pickle factory
20:56:33 <planetmaker> vegie soup needs a grain of salt, too ;-)
20:56:40 <planetmaker> lloool
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20:56:59 <Belugas> a grain? a lot!
20:57:20 * Belugas shivers at the possible taste of unsalted vegie soup
20:57:59 <planetmaker> :-) depends on the grain size, Belugas ;-)
20:59:16 <planetmaker> <-- a bit larger - and you can buy it by the m^3 en bloc
20:59:36 <peter1138> "en bloc"
21:00:52 <supermop> could aalso get it from shallow coastal waters
21:01:30 <Nite> you can use dried vegetables for veggi soup then you need less or no salt at all ...
21:01:55 * andythenorth forsees an entire food and drink economy
21:02:00 * andythenorth votes for jam
21:02:39 * DanMacK senses a FIRS revamp for toyland
21:03:02 <planetmaker> hm... *that* might make sense. Not toy, but food land :-)
21:03:07 <supermop> well, things like salt, pickles, cured fish and meats, and alcohol at one time comprised much of the transport economy
21:03:11 <Nite> votes for zwetschkenknoedel and powidltatschgerl :P
21:03:11 <Belugas> quite :D
21:03:25 <planetmaker> apple pie transporter. Salt lorrey, soup cettle... :-)
21:03:28 <planetmaker> yummi
21:03:38 <Belugas> ho...
21:03:44 <andythenorth> sausage
21:03:46 * Belugas starts to get hungry
21:03:49 <planetmaker> oh... the soup cettle wagon... - are you up for that, DanMacK ?
21:03:50 <Belugas> BIG TIME
21:03:54 <supermop> good thing i just ate
21:04:17 <planetmaker> or what we could use now already the sweets jars on the flatbed :-D
21:04:25 <andythenorth> food land
21:04:29 <planetmaker> :-)
21:04:35 <planetmaker> I'd feel at home :-P
21:04:38 * andythenorth wonders about resurrecting block-land mod
21:04:53 <andythenorth> cargos: 1x1 bricks, 1x2 bricks, 4x2 plates
21:04:56 <Nite> i just ordered japanese food - so mail could be ...
21:05:06 <andythenorth> no PAX
21:05:09 <andythenorth> minifigs instead
21:05:11 <DanMacK> Special bricks pay more
21:05:30 <planetmaker> :-)
21:05:36 <DanMacK> Statue would be an old school large fig :P
21:05:49 <supermop> plastic mine -> injection mold
21:06:07 <DanMacK> Would trains be in push, 4.5V and 9V varities?
21:06:25 <Nite> hä?
21:06:28 <andythenorth> rail types
21:06:34 <supermop> blue, grey
21:06:39 <DanMacK> Monorail
21:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remembers 4.5V "flat" batteries? ;)
21:06:45 <andythenorth> roads already look like road plates
21:06:49 <andythenorth> Monorail was epic
21:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen one of those in years ;)
21:06:54 *** z5000man has quit IRC
21:06:55 <supermop> sah a bunch of old blue track while i was in London
21:07:05 <supermop> saw
21:07:28 <andythenorth>
21:07:39 <andythenorth>
21:07:59 <supermop> differentiate between the town airport monorail and the various space monorails?
21:08:28 <supermop> actually,
21:08:31 <Nite> i remember those electronic "things" that needed up to 3 different kinds of batteries - 9v block some aa and a coin cell ...
21:08:41 <supermop> why has no one ever considered brio?
21:08:46 <Wolf01> million$$$ in lego parts :S
21:08:50 * DanMacK tyhought about it
21:08:59 <Nite> omg brio
21:09:10 <supermop> would look better in locomotion perhaps...
21:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what's brio?
21:09:29 <Nite> i hate stuff that uses batteries btw
21:09:35 <supermop> gaaah
21:09:37 <supermop> brio
21:09:42 <supermop> is awesome and swedish
21:09:58 <supermop> and wood
21:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is that an oxymoron? :p
21:10:36 <supermop> i had a little pair of brio engineer's overalls when i was 3 or 4
21:10:46 <planetmaker> brio... the wooden rails?
21:10:50 <Nite> it had magnetic coupling
21:11:03 <planetmaker> they still have. And they still dwell in my living room
21:11:55 <planetmaker> I usually combined the brio rails with the Lego town ;-)
21:12:06 <supermop> when i was about 5 i really wanted the brio series 0 shinkansen
21:12:22 <supermop> now they seem to have a brio n700
21:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... wood... we poor Ossis only had plastic railways :)
21:13:04 <supermop> brio 225 in swallow:
21:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that picture is... tiny
21:13:49 <supermop> wanted that even before i really understood what an 1c225 was
21:13:56 <supermop> ic
21:14:04 <andythenorth> I had red plastic trains
21:14:05 <supermop> best i could find on google
21:14:09 <andythenorth> same style as brio
21:14:11 <andythenorth> but plastic :)
21:14:44 <supermop> executive:
21:14:45 <supermop>
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21:15:40 * andythenorth had this:
21:15:55 <andythenorth> that Andrew in the blog post is not me
21:16:13 <andythenorth> the turntable was geared and fricking awesome
21:16:14 <planetmaker> ugly
21:16:22 <planetmaker> wood is so much better :-)
21:16:39 <andythenorth> aesthetics don't beat nostalgia :)
21:16:49 <planetmaker> hehe :-) - quite
21:17:33 <supermop> a train set to a little kid is beautiful no matter what
21:17:47 <andythenorth>
21:17:52 * DanMacK had a set similar to that
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21:19:17 <andythenorth> must be something about it that leads to pixel drawing :)
21:20:55 <supermop> lego and brio certainly get some of the credit for me going into architecture
21:21:01 <Nite> infants brio had similar rule problems as ottd - blocking and crashing someones vehicles i remember lead to agressive fights
21:21:42 <supermop> which might not have been a good influence afterall, as architects don't make any money
21:25:52 <Wolf01> yesterday I spotted the turntable in Milan:,9.260501&spn=0.00139,0.004128&t=h&z=19 it seem to be always full of engines and cars
21:26:10 <frosch123> night
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21:26:34 <supermop> i looked at that one when drawing my larger roundhouse
21:28:35 <Wolf01> this one is the largest junkya...trainyards I've ever seen
21:28:40 * DanMacK hasn't played with that particular grf in awhile...
21:28:45 *** Nite has quit IRC
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21:29:21 <DanMacK> Then again, none of my games have really had trains in awhile...
21:29:49 <supermop> i think i have fixed the glitches it had
21:30:03 * DanMacK will have to check it out
21:30:08 <supermop> and i have drawn tons of new stuff for a version .3
21:30:09 <supermop> but
21:30:20 <DanMacK> but?
21:30:23 <supermop> i havent found time over the last 4 months to code at all
21:30:57 <supermop> as 10 minutes of coding takes me about 2-3 hours of trying to learn what to do
21:31:00 <DanMacK> Understandable
21:31:16 <supermop> i have no aptitude for computer language at all
21:32:31 <Rubidium> just ask Tank for the right program
21:32:49 <supermop> ?
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21:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> :p
21:33:57 <supermop> actually, thats the reason i am on irc in the first place, trying to find out how to code the stuff i drew in november
21:34:07 <Rubidium> aptitude is Debian's (and its derivatives) tool to install programs
21:34:28 <supermop> never used irc before
21:34:28 <DanMacK> lol
21:34:47 <Rubidium> Tank is the operator in "The Matrix" who installs programs into people
21:35:00 <Wolf01> ahahah right :D
21:35:08 <Prof_Frink> Yummy.
21:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen a good matrix reference in years :)
21:36:11 <Rubidium> sorry to disappoint you
21:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> 16 heightlevels are definitely not enough
21:39:44 <xiong> Does anyone know any of the reasons why interval servicing can be ignored, apart from 'no service if no breakdowns'? What other reasons can there be for a vehicle to follow its orders blindly when it is overdue for service?
21:40:06 <Rubidium> are you saying the maps are too big?
21:40:49 * dihedral loves reading the backlog and finding out nicknames that seem to be generally ignored :-D
21:40:58 <andythenorth> xiong: vehicles have been doing that for ages
21:41:08 <andythenorth> I never found the cause
21:41:13 * Eddi|zuHause wonders whether xiong is actually still ignoring me
21:41:21 <Nite> they do it when they dont have a path to the depot
21:41:25 <dihedral> the list of 'generally' seems to exclude andythenorth and Eddi|zuHause :-D
21:41:30 <xiong> andythenorth, Good to know, I guess.
21:41:35 <andythenorth> they also do it when they do have a path
21:42:01 <andythenorth> RVs do it a lot
21:42:05 <xiong> Nite, Um, yes. Then there's the case that a road vehicle passes right by a depot, even though it's way overdue.
21:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can't even find a spot where it generated 16 heightlevels. most hills are only like 12
21:42:19 <andythenorth> xiong: use explicit servicing orders
21:42:24 <andythenorth> or turn off breakdowns
21:42:35 <andythenorth> it's not a good fix, but it's a fix :P
21:42:41 <xiong> andythenorth, That was my thought, to always include servicing, one way or another.
21:43:02 <andythenorth> it ought to get fixed, but exploring the pathfinder is way beyond me right now
21:43:07 <xiong> I wanted to know if others had the same issue. You say yes, so that's good, I guess.
21:43:13 <Rubidium> automatic servicing doesn't work when the depots are too far from the main network, in amount of pathfinder penalty
21:43:26 <Nite> i almost always service by force ore order
21:43:33 <andythenorth> xiong: it will only be addressed if (a) it can be predictably reproduced (b) someone's interested in fixing it
21:43:45 <xiong> Rubidium, How does that account for a road vehicle driving right past a depot?
21:43:52 <Rubidium> when you use path signals, it will search from the end of the reserved track. Thus... if you reserved past the depot it won't be going there
21:43:57 <Nite> autoservcing jamming systems too much or sending trains where they should not go
21:44:51 <Rubidium> finally vehicles check for automatic servicing at an interval (something like a day or so; don't know the exact value), so it can be too far away at one point and then have reserved the path past the depot at the next evaluation
21:44:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks for fixing cb28
21:44:56 <xiong> Well, what about timetables, non-stop orders, and explicit depot orders? Do these affect interval servicing in any way?
21:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> this can't be right... i have tested about every mountain i could find, and could terraform at least one level higher, often two
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21:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> is there an obiwan in clamping in the terrain generator?
21:46:03 <xiong> That is, is a vehicle more likely to skip servicing if it is proceeding non-stop; or if it is late on its timetable; or if it has an explicit depot order somewhere in its orders?
21:46:15 <Nite> any idea when the next beta is upon us?
21:46:18 <planetmaker> you're welcome, andythenorth - I'm sure it'll also be my pleasure :-)
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21:46:32 <andythenorth> I can now start on some interesting FIRS stuff
21:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: there just was one. how often do you think there are any?!?
21:47:00 <andythenorth> DanMacK: you're right, no eGRVTS vehicles for alcohol :o
21:47:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: have you tried the lowest sea level?
21:47:06 <andythenorth> maybe I screwed up the cargo classes
21:47:33 <Rubidium> for what it's worth I have no idea about the implementation of TGP, so it's just guess work
21:47:48 <xiong> Also, only vaguely related to the previous: Is there a reason that a timetabled vehicle will not waste any early time in a depot or at a waypoint? It will only ever waste (idle, dwell) at a station, which usually is the last (busy) place I want that.
21:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: seems to be the same
21:48:31 <supermop> xiong: i build 'yards' as stations to give them somewhere to wait
21:48:33 <andythenorth> DanMacK: NARS 2 has....generous...refits for Alcohol :P
21:48:37 <Rubidium> when a vehicle has explicit depot orders automatic servicing won't happen
21:49:01 <xiong> Rubidium++ # the big AHA
21:49:06 <Wolf01> 'night all
21:49:09 <xiong> Why is this not documented anywhere??
21:49:17 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
21:49:24 <xiong> So it's true!
21:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> with lowest sea level there's a funny agglomeration of fishing grounds in every tiny pond :p
21:49:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: hah
21:50:02 <andythenorth> indeed
21:50:09 <xiong> I can put a vehicle on a year-long loop around the map and if there's a goto-depot order anywhere in it, it will ignore all interval scheduling.
21:50:16 <andythenorth> fishing grounds do try and cluster too, which makes it worse
21:50:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if you provide code....they could scale by map size :P
21:50:35 <xiong> I thought might have been my subjective impression.
21:51:20 <xiong> Rubidium, What about non-stop orders and being late on timetable? Do these also interfere with interval servicing?
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21:51:39 <supermop> or you could use a station that looks like a depot.....
21:51:39 <Nite> sry i didnt track when the 1.1.0b5 came out Eddi|zuHause
21:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there don't seem to be any fishing harbours...
21:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> or at least very rarely
21:52:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that can happen
21:52:27 <andythenorth> they use the 'build in town' flag
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21:52:50 <andythenorth> it's proven that they won't appear on some maps
21:53:00 <andythenorth> I might re-implement my own version of build-in-town
21:53:09 <andythenorth> a bit less restrictive
21:53:14 <xiong> supermop, My rail stations are built to force depoting. I tend to put road freight on timetable, since it's dropping, say, engineering supplies and needs to be predictable.
21:53:20 <Nite> you mean auto servicing will thenb not happen at all? or just because it is serviced before autoservice? rubidium
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21:53:59 <Nite> Nite: avoids to use timetabeling - its just confusing me
21:54:55 <xiong> supermop, The point being that arrival intervals are critical for primary industry growth. So, I've been putting a secondary stop a few tiles before the actual drop-off truck stop and putting extra time in there, in the timetable, then hustling the truck out of the waiting-stop to the real stop. I'd rather have that waiting-stop be a depot, obviously.
21:55:47 <Rubidium> xiong:
21:56:06 <xiong> Nite, I believe that what Rubidium said was that any goto-depot order at all will suppress interval servicing.
21:56:18 <xiong> Rubidium, I'll look but I seriously doubt that I'll understand it.
21:57:04 <andythenorth> DanMacK: we can now plan windmill for FIRS :)
21:57:31 <xiong> I'm not a software guy; I'm an old hardware dog.
21:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's way better with the slightly hihger sea level
21:58:01 <xiong> Nite, Timetabling is difficult for me, too; but I'm starting to figure it out.
21:58:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah
21:58:22 <andythenorth> I'm not sure fishing industries are really compatible with minimum water
21:58:59 <andythenorth> I wouldn't mind implemeting special case code for it, but only if someone else devises it :)
21:58:59 <xiong> Nite, Part of it is the question of order #1. Since most orders loop around, it doesn't seem to matter which is first. I usually start my orders with the loading station and create vehicles at a depot near there; which makes sense, right?
21:59:40 <xiong> You could just as well make order #1 the unloading station but then, newly created vehicles would want to unload first, which seems unreasonable.
22:00:13 <xiong> But -- big but -- if you're timetabling, then (at least in my case), arrival time is critical, not departure.
22:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i "generally" can't ignore people ;)
22:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: might just have a "disable water-based industries" parameter, along the lines of "economies"
22:01:44 <xiong> So, create all your new timetabled vehicles at a depot very near the unloading station, and with the unloading station order being order #1. Create them all with shared orders, and send exactly one of them out of the depot on its way, with "Autofill".
22:02:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's one possibility
22:02:24 <Nite> sry i do not get your train orders withoug seeing them xiong
22:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if the newgrf can detect land generation settings
22:02:35 <xiong> That's the hard part, the part that frankly goes against my grain. Leave all the other vehicles in the depot until the first one has come back around. The very last order in the schedule is the depot itself.
22:02:58 <xiong> Nite, I don't timetable trains; I timetable trucks. Trains are best handled with full-load orders.
22:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> fishing grounds seem to often come in pairs
22:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that's useful
22:03:22 <Nite> its simply overly tedious having to release the vehicles one by one in the distances you watn between them
22:03:31 <xiong> In any case, my orders wouldn't look much different from any others. It's not the list; it's the way its managed.
22:03:50 <Nite> so i only use the "wait for X days" sheldomly
22:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but it looks fine overall
22:04:09 <Nite> where can i look at it?
22:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> almost every pond with a fishing ground also has a fishing harbour
22:04:21 <xiong> Nite, That I agree. You need to keep a sharp eye on the 'clock' and figure out, mentally, how often the vehicles must go out. But you can use the 'start date' feature to speed this up.
22:04:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: they try to colocate
22:04:55 <xiong> You still need to do quite a bit of simple arithmetic and deal, somehow, with the issue of the odd number of days per month.
22:05:09 <andythenorth> fishing harbours try to build within 64 pixels of fishing grounds
22:05:11 <andythenorth> and vice versa
22:05:17 <andythenorth> with some randomness
22:05:24 <planetmaker> good night
22:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it seems appropriate in general
22:05:41 <andythenorth> it is good on a high water map
22:05:51 <andythenorth> however it's not optimal on low water maps
22:05:56 <andythenorth> I've opened a ticket
22:06:00 <andythenorth> try it on an 80% water map
22:06:04 <supermop> xiong, i was suggesting stations as a shameless plu
22:06:06 <andythenorth> it's a thing of beauty :)
22:06:08 <xiong> Nite, You've seen --? I have issues with this page; I think I could do a bit better. But it's certainly much better than anything I can show you now.
22:06:18 <xiong> supermop, 'plu'?
22:06:25 <Nite> again, at which server can i look at it?
22:06:53 <xiong> Nite, Sorry, I just don't understand. What server for what?
22:07:22 <supermop> plg
22:07:28 <supermop> plug
22:07:37 <xiong> This is a complex, feature-rich game. People play it in very different ways. I never play on a server; I play locally.
22:08:02 <xiong> And no, Nite, I wouldn't want to show you anything I have got going now, since I'm in the process of changing my thinking.
22:08:07 <Nite> thats what i meant xiong
22:08:28 <xiong> Also, the point is not what you see; it's how you get there. It's a process, not a state.
22:08:51 <Nite> sure you can keep your ottd intimacy ;)
22:08:57 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22013 /trunk/src/ (company_func.h depot_cmd.cpp functions.h timetable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: move some functions out of functions.h
22:09:13 <xiong> The whole issue of timetabling is sufficiently complex that there are a number of patches floating around out there to set headway automatically for a group of vehicles. I'm all for it!
22:09:44 <supermop> i like the depature boards patch
22:09:57 <supermop> makes it much easier for me
22:09:59 <xiong> I'm especially incensed that when you set timetables in ticks that times are still set and shown in days -- dated days, too.
22:10:36 <xiong> I do not like numerical dates and I don't like dates of any sort, anywhere, that don't conform to ISO format.
22:11:04 <Nite> well what we want from timetables is clear at least - "a vehicel at a station every X days"
22:11:14 * andythenorth does wonder
22:11:18 <andythenorth> is newstations stalled?
22:11:20 <supermop> use departure boards, then you only have to worry about a 24 hour clock
22:11:27 <Nite> BUT i found teh fulload or not tactics best - so no timetable for me so far
22:11:30 <xiong> Sorry; that came out self-contradictory. Combine the two: I don't like numerical dates except as YYYY-MM-DD.
22:11:30 <supermop> what is that, andy?
22:12:06 <Nite> newstatins where very fine, they are still not on bananas are they?
22:12:07 <xiong> Nite, Usually I agree. But what about engineering supplies or farm supplies? These need to be distributed on a scheduled basis.
22:12:38 <Rubidium> andythenorth: isn't it oldstations by now? Isn't it like mid previous decade?
22:12:52 * andythenorth looks in his checkout :o
22:12:59 <xiong> It's irrelevant whether one crate or 20 are delivered but the industry has to get at least one delivery per month; for safety's sake, let's say once per 20 days or even 15.
22:13:09 <Nite> they can also be handeled with condi orders
22:13:39 <xiong> It does no good at all to deliver twice as much the next month if you skipped this one. So, full load doesn't cut it.
22:13:41 <Rubidium> newstations v0.44: Dec 28 2005
22:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can see, the clamping in tgp.cpp:993 is never actually reached. so there must be another limit before
22:14:00 <andythenorth> newfoo
22:14:06 <xiong> I have two solutions: The first is timetabled road vehicles, which I do agree, Nite, are tricky and time-consuming to set up.
22:14:38 <Nite> i think conditional orders are perfectly fine and logical to set up
22:14:44 <xiong> The other is to run a small train into the accepting station and *transfer* the goods out. Oddly enough, transferred goods will *not* be consumed by industry!
22:14:55 * andythenorth does update newairports branch
22:15:11 <andythenorth> last synced to trunk Nov 2010
22:15:17 <andythenorth> so not very stalled, no
22:15:27 <Rubidium> oh... that newstations
22:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what does this magic 3 do? MakeClear(tile, CLEAR_GRASS, 3);
22:15:57 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22014 /trunk/src/ (functions.h openttd.h): -Codechange: move some more functions out of functions.h
22:16:06 <xiong> Then, I put a tiny loop of road with two truck stops on it and set a single truck to load and unload at the same station. This can be slowed down, if it's rationing out the EngSups or FarmSups too quickly; if a backlog accumulates, a second truck can be laid on.
22:16:15 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: it sets the level of clear ground, ie bare ground = 0, fully grown grass = 3
22:16:31 *** Fast2 has quit IRC
22:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: aha.
22:16:49 * andythenorth proposes newnamingconvention
22:16:56 <xiong> Nite, I don't understand how conditional orders address the issue of delivering supplies to primary industries.
22:17:04 <Nite> they will be consumed if the industry accepts them at the moment you transfer, but at station "stored" ones will not be consumed later in game
22:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: is there an enum for that?
22:17:11 <Yexo> as far as I know not
22:17:50 <Yexo> see clear_map.h:21
22:17:56 <Yexo> Ground types. Valid densities in comments after the enum.
22:18:21 <Nite> you could also use a small truck and asecond station to feed teh industry constantly ... but its really hard to describe it all in words
22:18:30 <Nite> examples are best
22:19:51 <xiong> Nite, I tried the second station. It's not needed. If you transfer to the accepting station, rather than unload, the supplies stay until the loop truck delivers them, by loading and unloading. You don't even really need more than one truck stop but then the pathfinder complains about 'too few orders'.
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22:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... you can't see the mountains in temperate :p
22:21:35 <Nite> ic - with 2 orders it will complain about two identical orders ;)
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22:22:06 <xiong> Now, this *is* something relatively simple and something that can be apprehended pretty clearly with a static screenshot, with or without a saved game. Would anyone like to see a page put up for 'Regular Deliveries with Transfer Orders'?
22:22:28 <xiong> Nite, Dunno. Fiddle with it. Make one order load, one unload. Works for me.
22:22:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22015 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp economy.cpp functions.h texteff.hpp): -Codechange: move yet another pair of methods from functions.h
22:22:35 <andythenorth> xiong: would it be easier just to patch FIRS? :P
22:22:44 <Nite> why dont just start a server and load your savegame - so anyone intrested could be in it?
22:22:49 <andythenorth> or do you enjoy the challenge?
22:22:53 <xiong> andythenorth, For me? Impossible.
22:23:34 <andythenorth> for me....less so :P
22:23:39 <xiong> Nite, You don't want me to run an OTTD server. I have not got any knowledge of how to do so -- and my machine is a laptop, so availability would be rather unpredictable.
22:23:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22016 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Fix [FS#4479]: when paused and having the allowed actions while paused setting on "no actions" cheating money would fail
22:24:28 <xiong> andythenorth, Anyway, what would you patch? I don't have any issues with the regular delivery requirement. I'm having some issues with interval servicing. I have two good solutions to regular delivery.
22:24:57 <andythenorth> well as long as you're having fun ;)
22:25:14 <Nite> 4 your purpose xiong, you klick "multiplayer - start server" and set it up ...
22:25:51 <xiong> In fact, my actual approach tends to be hybrid. I run a train full of supplies out to a station and transfer them. Then, I run a loop truck to deliver to the industry. For nearby industries, I run a timetabled truck route out, which also works off some of the surplus.
22:26:20 <xiong> Nite, You are telling the dunce to pretend to be the professor.
22:26:52 <Nite> i am doing what?
22:27:06 <xiong> There are a very few things about this game that I understand well enough to tell someone else about. Certainly, I'm not going to set up Xiong's Demonstration OTTD Server'.
22:27:21 <xiong> ... especially not on a laptop.
22:27:37 <Nite> its not harder than to setup a singelplayer game
22:27:53 <Nite> if your connection is fine you will be fine
22:28:20 * andythenorth ponders some way to auto-fence industry tiles
22:28:29 <Nite> (dedicated server is littel harder because you should know console commands)
22:28:50 <xiong> Nite, I'm not sure you understand the point; I'm sorry. I have a laptop. I suspend its operations during most of each day. I only have it up for a couple hours at a time.
22:29:28 <xiong> And although I could, in theory, run a server, what would be on it? What would I provide to other people, that they could not get elsewhere and better?
22:29:59 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22017 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move MarkTileDirtyByTile to viewport_func.h
22:30:12 <supermop> well you could play cooperatively with a few of your friends, that have similar schedules, and similar play styles
22:30:19 <xiong> Any idiot can run a web server -- as we've seen. The challenge is to invent or gather worthwhile content to put out with it.
22:31:12 <xiong> supermop, Um, again, to what purpose? If such people exist, I can think of better things for us to do together.
22:31:43 <supermop> well, if that is your argument, why play games at all,
22:31:49 <xiong> I mean, sorry, but I find the suggestion bizarre. Do you all want to come over to my house to play? I don't get it. But then, when I was a kid, I always played alone.
22:31:56 <DanMacK> Night all
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22:33:06 <supermop> andythenorth; what do you mean by that?
22:33:28 <supermop> i have been trying to do something like that for my yard tiles for months
22:33:52 <Nite> we are not invading your hous by tracking you ip findung your identity xiong, some woudl just take a look what you have built
22:33:57 <xiong> I run several servers, of one sort or another; and for each, I try to provide something that you just can't get anywhere else. I mean, if someone else is doing better, why should I provide a crappy alternative?
22:34:05 <andythenorth> supermop: it would use a bit mask to specify where to draw fences for a tile
22:34:17 <xiong> Nite, I don't have too much worth showing.
22:34:17 <supermop> yeah
22:34:24 <supermop> that is what i was trying to do
22:34:36 <Nite> kk it was just an idea ...
22:34:37 <andythenorth> it can be done with nfo, but would be a bit bonkers
22:34:52 <supermop> i ran into trouble with the number of possible sprites
22:35:05 <Nite> since you seem to have something worth about chatting ;) xiang
22:35:30 <supermop> seemed too hard to set up action 2 chain to handle 16 different possible states
22:35:30 <xiong> Nite, This is, perhaps largely, a matter of orientation. If you want to know how somebody does something, I suspect, you want to join his server and observe, maybe ask questions, maybe ask him to do something while you watch.
22:36:14 <andythenorth> supermop: exactly
22:36:14 <xiong> But if I want to know how somebody does something, I want him to tell me where he has written up the documentation explaining it. I want words and pictures that don't change over small periods of time.
22:36:23 <andythenorth> meanwhile rail tiles have something to auto-fence them
22:36:38 <andythenorth> possibly it could be adapted to fence industry tiles
22:37:12 <andythenorth> I should read that code
22:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ... either i edit the wrong file, or all my changes don't have any effect :(
22:37:16 <andythenorth> but not tonight :)
22:37:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22018 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Cleanup: remove some (now) unneeded includes of functions.h
22:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the rail fences are stored in the map array
22:37:40 <xiong> I'm not chatting here to teach you how to deliver cargo to FIRS primary industries. That just came up. I wanted to ask about interval servicing and I got my answer: Don't do it; service explicitly, like the pros. That was one of my first choices.
22:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: on each tileloop, the fences are adjusted, if necessary
22:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (same as grass growth etc.)
22:38:15 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22019 /trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: s/functions.h/clear_func.h/
22:38:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which bits?
22:38:22 <xiong> If I *did* want to explain what I've learned about regular delivery, I would do so in the form of a wiki page. It would never occur to me to run a dynamic server to demonstrate.
22:38:22 <andythenorth> nvm, the docs will tell me :)
22:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: m4 bits 3..0
22:39:07 <xiong> I might attach a savegame but that's brittle: might break under the next patch; or you might not have the same NewGRFs loaded.
22:39:11 <andythenorth> not enough industry bits free :(
22:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for rail tiles
22:39:22 <xiong> ... or may want to set any one of a hundred variables differently than I have.
22:39:31 <Yexo> xiong: a savegame made with trunk without any newgrfs is quite safe
22:39:36 <xiong> I understand that running a server obviates that.
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22:39:56 <Yexo> andythenorth: I count 3 free bits, I assume you'll need 4 for proper fences
22:40:07 <xiong> Yexo, Yes. And I definitely don't want to do that. Especially when demonstrating how to serve a FIRS industry.
22:40:13 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22020 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: load of failures of WT3 to properly validate some strings...
22:40:17 <xiong> Yexo, That reminds me. Where is penntowns?
22:40:21 <Yexo> ah, in that case a wiki is better indeed ;)
22:40:25 * andythenorth wonders if industries will ever need sloped fences
22:40:28 <Yexo> still sitting in my inbox, sorry
22:40:46 <Yexo> shouldn't be much trouble to get it up, but I forgot about it
22:41:14 <andythenorth> if using custom foundations for a tile prevented fences....then sloped fences would never be needed
22:41:30 <xiong> Yexo, It's not an issue for me, really; I have a version running on my own machine and that's enough. But it irks me a bit not to see it -- only a small bit. Hope you see my point in mentioning it.
22:41:39 * andythenorth does think
22:42:01 <Yexo> xiong: sure, I'll get it up on coop devzone / bananas as soon as possible
22:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> why does the name "Fred" suddenly appear in my head? :p
22:42:49 <xiong> On another note -- and this has nothing to do with you, Yexo, don't take it that way -- I see nobody has done a thing with bigsig, even though I broke my own word and published the graphics to forum. So much for 'draw it and they will build'.
22:43:17 <andythenorth> Yexo: did you get stuck with newairports? Or bored :)
22:43:20 <andythenorth> or other stuff?
22:43:33 <Yexo> all of them ;)
22:43:45 <andythenorth> is it pathologically stuck?
22:43:49 <Yexo> got stuck, I've got some ideas on how to circumvent that but that means rethinking part of the spec
22:43:55 <Yexo> which is not exactly fun
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22:44:01 <andythenorth> ho
22:44:28 <andythenorth> my motive is not pure
22:44:33 <xiong> Actually, Yexo, I think I could reasonably demo regular servicing with transfer orders, with a plain vanilla game. It just wouldn't have the same... juice.
22:44:44 <andythenorth> stations for industries on water are a bit unsatisfactory currently
22:45:02 <Yexo> I know :)
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22:45:35 <Yexo> actually custom stations for ships would be a lot easier than for aircraft (assuming ships can never change their z-position)
22:45:48 <andythenorth> ships would be fine
22:45:52 <xiong> I wish that someone, instead of asking me to explain game mechanics I don't understand well, would ask me to draw graphics, which I do understand.
22:46:00 <andythenorth> it's trickier if there are also helipads for the same station
22:47:08 <andythenorth> currently it is possible to go heli-fishing in FIRS
22:47:13 <andythenorth> heli-logging yes
22:47:17 <andythenorth> heli-fishing: less so
22:47:22 <Prof_Frink> heli-mining?
22:47:28 <andythenorth> he
22:47:33 * TruePikachu doesn't understand revisions r21954-r21958
22:48:05 <andythenorth> they got discussed in forum
22:48:08 <Yexo> useless settings which almost everyone has the same value
22:48:18 <TruePikachu> Being...
22:48:21 <Yexo> or where it didn't make sense at all to have them enabled
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22:48:46 <andythenorth> Yexo: if ship stations could be done...I have four or so industries and would make use of them :)
22:49:03 <andythenorth> it's silly to be delivering PAX to the fishing ground :P
22:49:14 <andythenorth> there is no 'mafia' industry in FIRS
22:49:28 <Yexo> I don't want to implement the part for ships only to realize later that the spec needs to be changed for aircraft
22:49:34 <andythenorth> I understand
22:49:36 <Yexo> so while ships are easier they 'depend' on aircraft
22:49:50 <andythenorth> that's what was said the last n times I asked as well :D
22:49:51 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22021 /trunk/src/ (18 files in 6 dirs): -Fix (r22019): ofcourse make doesn't notice files are gone, so it doesn't recompile everything that needs to be recompiled...
22:51:36 <TruePikachu> When is the 1.1.0 EDA?
22:52:39 <Yexo> some time after 1.1.0-RC1
22:52:56 <TruePikachu> Oh, beta come before RC?
22:52:58 * andythenorth just had a disgusting idea
22:53:00 <Yexo> yes
22:53:18 <andythenorth> I could patch the magic 'water industry' station tile
22:53:21 * TruePikachu just thought you were using the term 'beta' instead of 'rc'
22:53:33 <andythenorth> so it doesn't have acceptance if the industry is not the default oil rig
22:53:38 <andythenorth> it's ugly
22:53:51 <andythenorth> but the industry code has a gazillion ugly special cases already
22:54:20 <glx> TruePikachu: beta are special nighties
22:54:34 <glx> RC are done after branching
22:54:44 <Yexo> andythenorth: but that breaks newgrfs that expect that behavior from the magic water tile
22:55:24 <andythenorth> special case for those newgrfs :P
22:55:48 <andythenorth> check an action 14 property :P
22:55:58 <andythenorth> hard code it so it still works with ECS
22:56:09 <andythenorth> or have patience and wait :P
22:56:23 <andythenorth> option 4 is least work
22:56:29 <andythenorth> but hardest
22:56:34 <TruePikachu> So you're trying to turn an oil rig into a fishing rig?
22:56:38 <andythenorth> oh yes
22:57:17 * andythenorth ponders redrawing some graphics for fishing grounds
22:57:17 <TruePikachu> having trouble keeping the fishermen away, eh?
22:57:27 <andythenorth> what are these fishing rigs you speak of?
22:57:49 <TruePikachu> I coldn't cume up with a better word.
22:57:53 <TruePikachu> *come
22:57:59 <TruePikachu> *couldn't
22:58:32 <TruePikachu> Just imagine an oil rig, but it pumps up fish ;)
22:59:58 <andythenorth> well maybe
23:00:11 <andythenorth> or a 'fishing-with-explosives grounds'
23:00:48 * andythenorth does go to bed
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23:00:55 <xiong> Delivering chemicals to this industry may increase production.
23:01:02 <andythenorth> good night ;)
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23:13:49 <supermop> later
23:13:56 <supermop> oops
23:14:04 <supermop> hadn't scrolled down all the way
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23:28:58 <TruePikachu> Lol @ one of these 'towns'
23:29:25 <TruePikachu> 5 residents, comprises entirely of 3 road tiles and what looks like a hurch
23:29:33 <TruePikachu> *church
23:29:52 <TruePikachu> In the middle of the water on the smallest possible island
23:30:42 <TruePikachu> "New Fludinghattan Ridge"
23:31:02 <TruePikachu> Name is bigger that the town in full zoom-in
23:31:48 <TruePikachu> Scary thing is that it's marked as a city...
23:41:19 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...what's an "Unnamed Finance"?
23:47:55 <TruePikachu> Wait, you know not-really-there bridges and tunnels?
23:48:22 <TruePikachu> Are those to help prevent issues with other companies (w/o infrastructure sharing)?
23:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf are you talking about?!?
23:49:24 <TruePikachu> Bridges and tunnels do not actually exist
23:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so?
23:49:36 <TruePikachu> (according to some guys here/on the forums)
23:50:07 <TruePikachu> I'm wondering if the fact that they don't exist is intentional so as to not create problems with other companies
23:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it is intentional, but has nothing to do with companies. how do you get that idea?
23:50:36 <TruePikachu> Theoretically, if it existed, nobody else could pass under the bridge
23:50:49 <TruePikachu> Land wnership
23:50:53 <TruePikachu> *ownership
23:51:03 * TruePikachu is having an off day with tping
23:51:14 <TruePikachu> ^^ see?
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23:51:54 <TruePikachu> And when I say "pass under", I mean "even build rails or such under"
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23:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's not it
23:52:43 <TruePikachu> Oh...
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23:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> when the bridges were "there", you could only build straight rails or roads under them, and no signals or crossings or such
23:53:30 <Yexo> TruePikachu: some tiles can have up to 3 different owners, so that's definitely not the problem
23:53:32 <TruePikachu> Oh...
23:53:52 <TruePikachu> Yexo: you are a psychic
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23:54:44 * TruePikachu literally just figured out that one piece of land can have 3 owners
23:55:08 <TruePikachu> 'figured' as in mathematically, not experimentially
23:55:34 <TruePikachu> But it only works in 2 unique tiles (or 1 tile if you count rotations)
23:56:22 * TruePikachu presses Alt-F7 - bbl
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