IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-02-06
#openttd / 2011 / 02 
            

00:00:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you can count updates to useful.zip as windows-specific maintenance



00:01:10  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, the same has to be done for Mac OS X



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00:01:22  <Rubidium> and building those libraries is trickier than making openttd-useful.zip



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00:02:21  <james_o-> Hi, does anyone know when variables.h was removed, and where the variables were moved to?



00:03:00  <planetmaker> ages ago and settings*



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00:04:33  <__ln__> Rubidium: if we imagine for the sake of argument that the official OSX build system had been "frozen" at the state it was during the good old times (and thus 10.4 and PPC support only), do you think there would be an official OSX build now?



00:05:44  <__ln__> no messing with evil Intel and cross-compiling, neither with all those shiny new 10.5 and 10.6.



00:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> james_o-: last commit to variables.h i found was r17248



00:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is likely not the one that removed it.



00:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how to find that...



00:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> james_o-: maybe you want to ask a different question altogether though



00:09:15  <james_o-> 1.0.5 had a variables.h file



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00:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> james_o-: 1.0 was more around r16000-ish



00:10:30  <perk111> It was removed in 20192



00:10:39  <perk111> -Cleanup: bye bye variables.h, bye bye VARDEF... you won't be missed :)



00:10:59  <james_o-> Oh, VARDEF is gone?



00:12:58  <planetmaker> james_o-: get a vcs and update your patch(es) step by step...



00:13:08  <planetmaker> like jumping 500 or 1000 revisions.



00:13:24  <planetmaker> or read the 3000 commit messages



00:13:44  <__ln__> anyway, i apologize for talking on-topic things again.  i'll try to avoid that.



00:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> depending on the complexity of the patch, rewriting may be more useful approach



00:15:09  <james_o-> Rewriting is a good idea, my variables probably shouldn't have been in variables.h



00:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> james_o-: read the commits leading up to the above, how to do things "properly" instead of using vardef



00:15:56  <planetmaker> __ln__: I'm not sure what you're mad about now...



00:16:55  <planetmaker> but OSX is best supported by actual code work that discussions about how serious the currently still remaining deficencies are. You may also note that there currently are official OSX builds



00:18:07  <__ln__> planetmaker: I'm not mad.



00:20:07  <__ln__> it's just that history shows that whenever i talk something directly OpenTTD-related here, it usually doesn't end well.



00:20:28  <planetmaker> sad, if that's your perception



00:21:47  <__ln__> that's why I'm usually being 97% off-topic and everything goes great.



00:23:18  <planetmaker> you write cjk input and we can discuss to remove that known-bugs.txt entry :-P



00:23:40  <planetmaker> or rather both :-)



00:24:03  <__ln__> also today is not one of the times when it didn't end well; just making a general remark



00:24:42  <__ln__> CJK sounds something chinese



00:25:24  <planetmaker> try to enter Chinese characters. (or Japanese or Korean - that's not trivial)



00:25:56  <planetmaker> and API documentation I read on it is... obscure to say



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00:28:24  * Rubidium postulates it isn't the being on-topic that makes things go haywire, but rather having Mac OS X problems as topic



00:34:48  <__ln__> entering chinese is not an ultimate success in the Windows version either either imho.



00:35:35  <__ln__> i do get funny onscreen menus to choose characters from, but what ends up in OpenTTD is questionmarks.



00:38:47  <__ln__> maybe i'm missing a font. but are those chinese characters even possible to present in such a small font size as the text entry fields have?



00:40:59  <glx> on windows we just use the API like any other windows apps



00:42:16  <glx> and as we use custom drawing, an extra window to enter CJK is created



00:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you must set up an unicode-capable font in openttd.cfg first. if you select chinese as language, this will be done for you automatically



00:43:23  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: ah, so it seems, thanks



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00:45:02  <__ln__> glx: does it work in fullscreen?



00:46:29  <__ln__> now the extra window won't open anymore, all i get is latin letters... (still windowed mode)



00:49:00  <glx> you set the right mode in lang toolbar ?



00:49:12  <__ln__> yeah



00:49:28  <glx> though in fullscreen it seems to return to alphanumeric



00:50:36  <__ln__> hmm, restarting openttd helped, but indeed i was somehow able to make it not work a while ago.



00:55:14  <__ln__> again it's not working. i visited fullscreen and returned this time.



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01:01:40  <glx> hmm after a quick look in the code it seems we don't do anything special and let windows handling that for us



01:02:25  <z-MaTRiX_> hi



01:02:36  <z-MaTRiX_> can someone help in linux?



01:03:28  <z-MaTRiX_> having problem "xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed" after issue 'xrandr --output default --mode "1280x960_60.00"'



01:03:59  <z-MaTRiX_> (new kde does not have xorg.conf)



01:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: tried "xrandr -s 1280x960"?



01:07:41  <Eddi|zuHause> who has 4:3 monitors anymore?



01:08:02  * TruePikachu has a 4x3



01:08:08  <TruePikachu> err...4:3



01:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> afair 1280x960 isn't even a standard mode



01:08:26  <TruePikachu> I'm pretty sure it is



01:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> 1280x1024 is, but it's not exactly 4:3



01:08:59  <TruePikachu> ^^ yeah, that one is confusing



01:09:21  <__ln__> so would it be an acceptable solution to open a new, external dialog window with a text entry field?



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01:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: sounds fine to me, but i'm not an expert



01:10:18  <planetmaker> that's what I've seen usually happens. I expect a OS-supplied window for entering stuff which is then handed to OpenTTD



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01:11:47  <z-MaTRiX_> hmm i have 4:3



01:12:18  * TruePikachu wonders why OpenTTD has been taking so long to start



01:12:26  <z-MaTRiX_> [root@matrix etc]# xrandr -s 1280x960



01:12:27  <z-MaTRiX_> Failed to change the screen configuration!



01:12:44  <TruePikachu> Anything changed in the boot coding between 1.0.4 and 1.0.5?



01:12:53  <__ln__> you are root



01:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: only CRT monitors are usually 4:3. TFT monitors are typically 5:4, 16:10 or nowadays 16:9



01:13:13  <z-MaTRiX_> hm yes su



01:13:17  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: your downloaded content grew?



01:13:18  <TruePikachu> 5:4 and 16:10 are new ratios for me...



01:13:24  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: No



01:13:45  <TruePikachu> At least, not that I know of



01:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you have a large folder called "data" somwehere which is unrelated to openttd, but openttd thinks it might contain useful stuff?



01:14:06  <glx> __ln__: maybe I'll need to read http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee419002%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#Overriding_the_Default_IME_Behavior carefully :)



01:14:17  <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/136336 <-- __ln__ that's what I'd expect to see somehow. The letters are underlined and space opens the selection menu you see.



01:14:38  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: even one that's not part of the OpenTTD file tree?



01:14:48  <z-MaTRiX_> btw got it work but does not set mode



01:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: one of $(pwd)/data, ~/data, /data or ~/.openttd/data



01:15:13  <z-MaTRiX_> could not set the configuration for crtc262



01:15:17  <TruePikachu> PWD for KDE's desktop is the desktop dir?



01:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: don't know.



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01:16:08  <TruePikachu> I have no ~/data or /data



01:16:29  * TruePikachu will go through the DLC and remove some things eventually



01:16:39  <__ln__> glx: i suppose it would help (on windows) if the fullscreen mode was not a real fullscreen mode but a borderless screen-sized window?



01:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you can try things like starting "openttd -d misc=3" or so to see where openttd searches



01:17:57  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: one of the advantages of true fullscreen is the change to 8bpp mode



01:18:20  <glx> maybe, but if we (I) can integrate IME in openttd it'll look better



01:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: also borderless windows might be affected by taskbar and stuff



01:20:06  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but with such approach you can have fullscreen OpenTTD on one screen and irc, email, whatever on second screen, and use both just by moving the mouse from one place to another.



01:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: personally, i just play windowed anyway



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01:24:04  <planetmaker> __ln__: OSX has different "full screen" modes which allows to select one monitor or another or all



01:24:13  <planetmaker> so I guess windows has that somewhere, too



01:24:44  <planetmaker> (OpenTTD just implements full screen on the 1st monitor IIRC)



01:26:56  <__ln__> planetmaker: i've tested a patch which used the Quartz-or-something fullscreen mode on OpenTTD, and it was great. possible to apple-tab between fullscreen OTTD and other apps, first of all.



01:28:30  <planetmaker> he :-)



01:28:54  <planetmaker> but sleep is calling - so good night folks :-)



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01:29:04  <__ln__> it's actually really evil that OTTD normally grabs all mouse and keyboard input to itself in fullscreen



01:29:52  <planetmaker> well, the method now employed for the windowed modes could (and should) be extended to the fullscreen driver, too



01:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that from dosbox



01:30:20  <planetmaker> they share enough code to make it worthwhile



01:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it captures all global kde-hotkeys, so i can't change volume or currently playing title



01:30:31  <__ln__> planetmaker: indeed. and that's what the patch did actually...



01:30:59  <__ln__> or rather it was the patch that also implemented the new kind of windowed mode video driver too.



01:31:18  <planetmaker> do I know it?



01:32:03  <planetmaker> or should I?



01:32:22  <__ln__> the patch was made by a friend of mine, was rejected by Bjarni, but was later more or less applied to OpenTTD by egladil.  but not the fullscreen part.



01:33:43  <planetmaker> hm, I see



01:33:49  <planetmaker> or not ;-)



01:34:31  <__ln__> it was the era when QuickDraw was becoming deprecated and a new implementation was needed



01:34:59  <z-MaTRiX_> ah



01:35:11  <z-MaTRiX_> x doesnt want to set resolution



01:35:42  <z-MaTRiX_> "Could not set the configuration for CRTC 262"



01:35:56  <z-MaTRiX_> and "monitor: unknown"



01:36:00  <__ln__> Bjarni rejected the patch because he considered it to be slower than the old QuickDraw implementation.



01:36:17  <planetmaker> oha



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07:57:23  <andythenorth> moarning



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08:36:46  <dihedral> good morning



08:41:38  <Terkhen> good morning



08:43:29  <andythenorth> did I do win?



08:43:30  <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_8.png



08:43:40  <andythenorth> I prefer it to: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_9.png



08:44:07  <andythenorth> this is too much colour: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_7.png



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08:46:21  <Terkhen> wow, nice :)



08:46:35  <Terkhen> I also prefer #8



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09:01:45  <dihedral> i like #9 :P



09:02:20  <dihedral> with #8 i needed a second look to determin the colour :P



09:02:42  <dihedral> with #7 i needed a second look to get past the colour :-D



09:03:12  <andythenorth> dihedral: he :)



09:03:20  <dihedral> anyway - i am of to church



09:03:21  <dihedral> laters



09:03:42  <Rubidium> tss...



09:04:31  <Rubidium> I thought you were member of the Holy Site of Transport Tycoon... but no... he fancies another holy site as well ;)



09:04:51  <Guest428> hey-ho



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09:05:43  <Terkhen> hmmm... autorenew with HEQS trams always builds them with the lowest capacity



09:05:45  <dihedral> LOL Rubidium :D



09:06:08  <andythenorth> Terkhen: it doesn't maintain the refit on renew?



09:06:34  <andythenorth> I thought subtype refits were preserved...



09:07:07  <Rubidium> if the refits are considered the same



09:07:42  <Terkhen> it seems that it selects the first appropiate one



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09:09:24  <Rubidium> and "considered the same" = same cargo substring (ID)



09:13:16  <planetmaker> moin



09:14:17  <planetmaker> nice lime kilns, andythenorth :-)



09:14:26  <planetmaker> Possibly you could use both colour-reduced versions?



09:14:31  <planetmaker> As alternate designs?



09:14:53  <planetmaker> But either is fine for me



09:15:04  <planetmaker> i.e. I can't decide ;-)



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09:23:13  <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/lime_kiln_10.png



09:23:16  <andythenorth> about done for now



09:24:52  <planetmaker> kudos, andythenorth :-)



09:25:27  <planetmaker> one thing I wonder about though: the ground tiles. Would they be concrete really?



09:26:02  <planetmaker> what about making the lower left two ones use the default ground tile (i.e. grass in the screenshot)?



09:26:16  <planetmaker> and maybe some dirt overlay?



09:26:30  <planetmaker> or is that for a later version? ;-)



09:26:33  <andythenorth> later



09:26:37  <planetmaker> :-)



09:26:43  <andythenorth> this can go in 0.6



09:26:53  <andythenorth> I'll play a few games until I know what annoys me about it



09:26:56  <andythenorth> then I'll fix it



09:27:11  <andythenorth> then probably breaking savegames due to layout changes :P



09:27:19  <andythenorth> (could be fixed by cb28 handling)



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09:29:22  <planetmaker> Well, I think a general 'issue' with FIRS are the boring ground tiles for many processing industries



09:29:37  <andythenorth> yup



09:29:37  <planetmaker> Farms, sand pits, fishing grounds - they blend in nicely :-)



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09:44:11  * andythenorth wonders how FIRS secondary closure works :P



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09:47:05  <planetmaker> time for another stable server test game?



09:47:26  <planetmaker> But I guess I could only have it use 0.5.5 there



09:49:10  <andythenorth> If secondary industry closure is enabled, there is a chance of closure each



09:49:10  <andythenorth> month if no cargo has been delivered in the previous 18 months.



09:49:14  <andythenorth> make sense?



09:50:04  <planetmaker> yes



09:50:26  <andythenorth> one task left



09:50:43  <planetmaker> one thing one can think about: make that chance map-size dependent



09:50:51  <planetmaker> lower chance for larger maps



09:51:38  <andythenorth> maybe



09:51:55  <andythenorth> I don't really understand the random var anyway :)



09:52:08  <andythenorth> could adjust the NUM_MONTHS_CLOSURE_PROTECTED value by map size



09:52:18  <andythenorth> might have bad effects on small maps



09:52:37  <andythenorth> I need to be able to trigger arbitrary news messages



09:52:39  <planetmaker> nah, not the protection span - that just changes the time of the big depression on big maps



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09:53:26  <andythenorth> I wonder if I'm doing the monthly check, or using the random production change cb?



09:54:02  <andythenorth> looks like I'm using the random



09:54:11  <andythenorth> so there should be less chance of mass extinction



09:54:46  <andythenorth> planetmaker: min version is just repo version?



09:54:49  <andythenorth> or a tag?



09:55:00  <planetmaker> it's the repo version



09:55:12  <planetmaker> or *some* repo version. It's not a tag



09:55:17  <andythenorth> so if I'm at 1716



09:55:19  <andythenorth> I use that?



09:55:23  <andythenorth> or 1717?



09:55:31  <andythenorth> (I'm about to commit the version check)



09:55:47  <planetmaker> uh, version check? For what?



09:55:55  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1985



09:56:25  <z-MaTRiX> still no solution for crtc error ;<



09:56:25  <planetmaker> well, yes, just set it to the revision / repo version you're going to commit



09:56:37  <z-MaTRiX> (linux screen resolution)



09:56:50  <z-MaTRiX> linux hates me ;<



09:57:31  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but generally that s/should be done when you actually break it.



09:57:37  <andythenorth> I know



09:57:41  <andythenorth> next time...



09:57:43  <planetmaker> and not in a separate commit ;-)



09:57:49  <andythenorth> keeping track of breaks is quite tricky :P



09:57:50  <planetmaker> k :-)



09:57:59  <andythenorth> it's easy for a vehicle set



09:58:05  <andythenorth> not easy for FIRS



09:58:17  <planetmaker> what's more difficult?



09:58:29  <andythenorth> remembering what can cause breaks



09:58:39  <planetmaker> :-D



09:58:42  <andythenorth> and deciding whether a minor break justifies a bump



09:59:36  <andythenorth> if I bump too often, I won't get much player feedback



09:59:50  <planetmaker> hm, might be, yes



10:00:12  <andythenorth> I figure using a nightly comes with a health warning anyway



10:01:34  <andythenorth> do I need to bump any other static info for a tagged release?



10:01:42  <andythenorth> I'm not very up to date on action 14 stuff



10:02:18  <planetmaker> nah, you're fine



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10:06:56  <kamnet> Morning. Planetmaker, are you around?



10:07:09  <planetmaker> moin :-)



10:07:36  <kamnet> Do you remember what date you advanced OpenMSX from 0.3.1 to 1.0.0 ?



10:07:54  <planetmaker> I did not yet, did I?



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10:08:25  <kamnet> I didn't think you had, at least not noted it in the forums, but on openttdcoop it's listed as 1.0.0 and current version 1.1.0



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10:09:19  <planetmaker> where?



10:09:38  <kamnet> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openmsx/issues?fixed_version_id=79&set_filter=1&status_id=c



10:10:00  <kamnet> in the menu option it jumps from 0.2.0 to 1.0.0 then 1.1.0



10:10:19  <planetmaker> oh, that's the bug tracker you see there.



10:10:31  <planetmaker> And those versions are the version they need to be solved latest



10:10:51  <planetmaker> like "1.0.0 can only be released when this is solved"



10:11:04  <planetmaker> it doesn't mean 1.0.0 will be released ;-)



10:11:31  <kamnet> Aha, I understand, thank you!  I'm trying to do a right-proper update for the wiki



10:12:48  <planetmaker> kamnet: you get release dates also from the file date here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openmsx/releases/



10:15:07  <planetmaker> other than that: 0.2.1 on Mar 26 2010, 0.2.0 on Mar 13 2010 and 0.1.0 on Feb 27 2010



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10:16:16  <planetmaker> nice to see a wiki update :-)



10:16:48  <planetmaker> But I wonder whether I should call OpenMSX 1.0.0 ;-)



10:16:48  <kamnet> Ayup long overdue. The strange things I think of doing instead of sleeping.



10:16:56  <planetmaker> haha :-)



10:17:25  <kamnet> I think it would be deserving of the 1.0.0 title once every song in the collection is contributed fro within the community.



10:18:33  <kamnet> After I've finished updating the wiki I'll go make a fuss in the forums about needing more contributions



10:18:43  <planetmaker> well, what's "the community" and why should a song which I like and someone gave permission to not be included if it fits?



10:19:27  <planetmaker> with "I like = people like". But yes, mostly I feel it could be improved. OTOH we have a full set and we can always easily progress past 1.0 ;-)



10:21:06  <kamnet> "the community" being the players of the game and users from the forums.



10:22:20  <planetmaker> that'll be a very long way ;-)



10:23:42  <kamnet> Yep, it will be. But I think it fits in with the spirit of doing a full clone of the game.



10:24:06  <kamnet> Microprose used their own in-house talents to create the original TTD music, after all. :-)



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10:24:42  <planetmaker> hehe :-) - I hoped you'd start composing ;-)



10:25:12  <kamnet> There's about a 1000x more likely chance that I end up as lead developer for NML. LOL



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10:26:32  <kamnet> I'm the least musically inclined person in my family. My children, on the other hand, are very talented, which they get entirely from their mother's side of the family. When they get to high school next year they can actually learn MIDI.



10:26:59  <kamnet> I'll make them start playing the game and then contribute compositions MUAHAHA.



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10:34:47  <planetmaker> haha :-)



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10:47:50  * andythenorth should patch the openttd 'successful login' page



10:47:53  <andythenorth> it's very annoying :D



10:56:31  <planetmaker> andythenorth: so... I should allow both industry types to close?



10:59:46  <andythenorth> I don't



10:59:53  <andythenorth> but I guess it's the most useful test of the code



11:00:00  <andythenorth> I find closure tedious :)



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11:10:32  * andythenorth wonders



11:10:35  <andythenorth> what next :P



11:12:49  <andythenorth> Terkhen: how did the profiling go for the functions you were unifying?



11:13:12  <Terkhen> andythenorth: confusing



11:13:17  <andythenorth> :|



11:13:25  <Terkhen> as I got unexpected results that others were not able to reproduce



11:13:46  <andythenorth> should I try?



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11:14:13  <Terkhen> since I'm going to set up a "new" desktop (with old parts) I am waiting to try on it



11:14:18  <andythenorth> ok



11:14:27  <andythenorth> maybe I try and fix cb28 again :P



11:14:54  <Terkhen> hmm... I don't know if the profiling script would run on osx, it uses a lot of instructions I did not know before



11:15:44  <andythenorth> I need a coding buddy for adventures in cb 28 :)



11:20:31  * planetmaker wonders... is 250 million cost for terraforming one tile too much? :-D



11:22:30  <planetmaker> getting a selection of newgrf work nicely together... can take time, too



11:23:39  <planetmaker> and newgrfs which require a parameter to play with a climate or with other newgrfs suck :S



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11:27:54  <planetmaker> hm, I think I like it that sea water is costing millions to clear



11:29:54  <andythenorth> :)



11:30:50  <Terkhen> planetmaker: IIRC you have to clear a water tile to build a lock



11:31:12  <planetmaker> well. Ships cost 16000x running cost anyway :-P



11:31:28  <planetmaker> in a free MP environment it has to be discouraged :-P



11:31:56  <Terkhen> that's like forbidding them :)



11:32:04  <planetmaker> quite :-)



11:32:14  <Terkhen> why don't you just set their number to zero?



11:32:23  <planetmaker> But successful people can afford a ship for leasure for their CEO



11:33:05  <Terkhen> oh, ok :)



11:33:43  <planetmaker> I once bought with similar settings a helicopter for 40 million and 4 million annual running costs - which did not quite balance its income of 100k per year ;-)



11:33:57  <planetmaker> just because and only to have the single aircraft ingame :-P



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11:34:45  <andythenorth> 'newgame'



11:35:01  <planetmaker> but fishing grounds with FISH and ships are nicer... :S



11:35:02  <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: That's not a bad idea. Replace (one of) the subs with a luxury yacht.



11:35:11  * andythenorth wishes he had known about 'newgame' in console for the last 2 years of testing FIRS map gen



11:35:18  <planetmaker> Prof_Frink: indeed :-)



11:35:58  <planetmaker> I totally forgot... how do submarines influence the game?



11:36:30  <Prof_Frink> Not at all.



11:36:31  <andythenorth> hmm



11:36:40  <andythenorth> luxury yacht could be like a HQ somehow



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11:38:28  <andythenorth> uh oh



11:38:37  <andythenorth> I just realised I screwed up the FIRS 0.6 massively :o



11:38:43  <planetmaker> how?



11:39:14  <planetmaker> I'm still testing newgrf config, so no harm done for my map creation ;-)



11:39:21  <andythenorth> I forgot to make the HQ accept Alcohol :(



11:39:29  <planetmaker> :-D



11:39:48  <Terkhen> :S



11:39:54  <Terkhen> can you rollback?



11:40:19  <planetmaker> Actually I think the 'alcohol' sounds a bit too technical for the cargo - or is it mainly ethanol plant producing industrial alcohol?



11:40:49  <andythenorth> it's so we can also have wine + rum



11:40:51  <andythenorth> not just beer



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11:41:03  <andythenorth> drinks?



11:41:21  <andythenorth> 'booze'



11:41:57  <planetmaker> liquor?



11:42:01  <andythenorth> not bad



11:42:03  <andythenorth> the HQ mod can go into 0.6.1 as a quick fix



11:42:14  <andythenorth> there's at least one other fix needed



11:42:40  <planetmaker> "legal drugs" :-P



11:42:52  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to wait for 0.6.1 for the MP game?



11:43:03  <planetmaker> I easily could. Is it needed?



11:43:17  <planetmaker> I mean 0.6.1? What's wrong?



11:43:24  <andythenorth> HQ -> beer :)



11:43:38  <planetmaker> uhm... sure that's possible?



11:43:42  <andythenorth> dunno let



11:43:45  <andythenorth> me look



11:43:53  <planetmaker> I don't think so. Unless you kill passengers



11:45:44  <planetmaker> btw, Terkhen: placing a dock costs me 300 with this base cost setting - so it's not affected by clear water costs



11:45:57  <planetmaker> same for the ship yard



11:45:58  <andythenorth> are HQ grfs just using action A?



11:46:10  <planetmaker> yes. HQ are not newgrf-able except graphics



11:46:28  <andythenorth> we should change that :D



11:46:45  <andythenorth> ok



11:46:56  <andythenorth> 0.6.1 will be later



11:46:58  <andythenorth> lets not wait :)



11:47:04  <Terkhen> planetmaker: what about locks?



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11:49:28  <andythenorth> quak



11:49:38  <andythenorth> (his timing is always spooky)



11:49:39  <frosch123> moin



11:49:52  <andythenorth> frosch123: is newgrf-HQs feasible?



11:49:55  <andythenorth> or wise?



11:50:57  <frosch123> what makes a hq a hq?



11:51:03  <andythenorth> I don't know



11:51:10  <andythenorth> I'm opening the src to find out :)



11:51:30  <frosch123> is it just a random new object, which is unique on the map, and where the viewport jumps to when you click on "goto hq"?



11:51:40  <Terkhen> it also accepts cargo



11:51:43  <planetmaker> quak :-)



11:52:24  <planetmaker> Terkhen: locks are virtually unbuildable :-(



11:52:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: that was not the question :) i know the code, but i would like to know what is the difference between a hq and a new object from the player point of view



11:52:43  <planetmaker> 650 million per lock



11:52:46  <Terkhen> heh



11:52:50  <andythenorth> frosch123: hq has to be unique



11:52:56  <andythenorth> and there's a special button to build it



11:53:10  <andythenorth> any town effect (besides PAX acceptance / production)



11:53:11  <andythenorth> ?



11:53:15  <frosch123> and shall the player be allowed to select a hq from multiple layouts?



11:53:16  <Terkhen> planetmaker: perhaps it should not use the water costs for "clearing" the tiles?



11:53:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: maybe



11:53:33  <andythenorth> I don't find that interesting but others probably would



11:53:48  <planetmaker> also canals are WAY too expensive. There should be a distinction between sea water and canals ;-)



11:54:01  <andythenorth> objects don't accept / produce



11:54:07  <frosch123> in that case, just define a special object class "CPHQ" which is not displayed in the object gui, but in the build hq gui



11:54:19  <andythenorth> (I think objects should accept / produce)



11:54:33  <frosch123> but only like houses, not like industries



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11:54:43  <Yexo> if objects accept / produce, what makes them different from industries?



11:54:51  <andythenorth> like houses



11:55:06  <andythenorth> light house is a good example



11:55:07  <Terkhen> planetmaker: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=BaseCosts <--- you should be able to separate canal/sea costs



11:55:29  <andythenorth> or a light ship



11:55:57  <Terkhen> but the lock clears the upper and lower tiles, so it ends up using the clear water cost too



11:56:09  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yeah, I guess I didn't set enough entries in the basecost mod :-)



11:56:27  <Terkhen> IIRC it was updated for these costs



11:58:38  * andythenorth does wonder



11:58:56  <andythenorth> what actual harm could result from new object tiles accepting / producing cargo?



12:00:44  <planetmaker> wow. That's nicely inconsistent: Lock costs: 500 million when placing on plain slope



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12:01:03  <planetmaker> if build a canal on the upper and lower tile for 8000 each - then the lock costs only 50k



12:01:06  <ZirconiumX> Hello



12:01:13  <planetmaker> price difference: factor 1000



12:01:20  <andythenorth> if objects could accept / produce, is that a cheat opportunity?



12:01:21  <planetmaker> actually 10000



12:03:08  * planetmaker investigates



12:08:09  <Terkhen> planetmaker: DoBuildLock in water_cmd.cpp



12:08:16  <planetmaker> yeah



12:08:21  <planetmaker> just testing fix :-)



12:08:25  <Terkhen> probably line 222 :)



12:08:26  <Yexo> cost.AddCost(_price[PR_CLEAR_WATER]); <- that is strange imo



12:08:29  <planetmaker> two lines



12:08:37  <Terkhen> but I do remember some logic for keeping that



12:08:45  <planetmaker> quite. And should be PR_BUILD_CANAL



12:08:59  <Terkhen> what if it is clearing a sea tile?



12:09:12  <planetmaker> then that line isn't called



12:09:12  <Yexo> it's never clearing a sea tile



12:09:20  <Yexo> it's only added when the tile _is not_ water already



12:09:40  <Terkhen> hmm... right



12:09:50  <Terkhen> then it should be PR_BUILD_CANAL, yes



12:10:41  <planetmaker> works nicely :-)



12:11:05  <Yexo> ah, PR_BUILD_CANAL is one of the "new" basecosts



12:11:23  <planetmaker> yes, so it's a sort of oversight when that was added



12:11:54  <Terkhen> I do remember some discussions about this, but changing this makes sense



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12:15:42  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r21992 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp): -Fix [FS#4467]: AIs trying to change the AIOF_GOTO_NEAREST_DEPOT flag for existing orders triggered an assert. Explicitly forbid this as precondition for SetOrderFlags



12:16:18  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21993 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r19720): When building a lock on dry land costs for clearing water were deducted rather than for building canals



12:16:44  <planetmaker> solved :-)



12:18:21  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what rev will the MP game be on?



12:18:26  <andythenorth> I might need to build ottd...



12:18:28  <planetmaker> beta5



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12:19:11  <andythenorth> binary for me :)



12:22:07  <Terkhen> planetmaker: great :)



12:22:24  <planetmaker> it won't help the people in the testgame :-P



12:23:34  <planetmaker> The other water building functions seem to reference the costs as I expect :-)



12:24:23  <planetmaker> andythenorth: any suggestions what I should add to the game?



12:24:50  <planetmaker> My current idea is to use UKRS (not UKRS2) and a somewhat Welsh scenario.



12:25:21  <planetmaker> at least by the town names; with UK Towns



12:25:36  <planetmaker> arctic climate with my rail tracks



12:26:04  <Wolfsherz> hi, anyone has a g



12:26:15  <planetmaker> "g" <-- here you go



12:26:23  <Wolfsherz> ha, sorry :)



12:26:43  <Wolfsherz> anyone has a good suggestion on railroad tracks? the default ones are a bit dark i think.



12:27:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker: fine



12:27:14  <andythenorth> good and welsh :P



12:27:19  <andythenorth> I can see wales from here



12:27:23  <andythenorth> well, not exactly



12:27:24  <planetmaker> hehe :-)



12:27:26  <andythenorth> but nearly



12:27:34  <andythenorth> my wife is welsh



12:27:35  <planetmaker> Wolfsherz: I'm biased, but I recommend the Swedish ones



12:27:44  <planetmaker> he, then it fits :-)



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12:28:14  <andythenorth> swedish houses?



12:28:25  <andythenorth> expensive short and slow bridges?



12:28:26  <planetmaker> Why not UK Houses?



12:28:48  <andythenorth> well....why not



12:28:57  <planetmaker> I've never seen the 0.2.1 ingame really - so it's sort of a test for them, too



12:29:16  <planetmaker> I play too few games nowadays, so I have to combine tests :-P



12:29:25  <Wolfsherz> planetmaker, can you provide a link?



12:29:33  <planetmaker> Wolfsherz: online content?



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12:29:48  <Wolfsherz> oh well, i always forget that its there :) thanks



12:29:52  <planetmaker> Swedish Rails 0.6.0



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12:30:47  <andythenorth> egrvts I guess



12:31:10  <andythenorth> what stations?



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12:31:25  <planetmaker> isr, city, dwe, vast



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12:31:54  <Wolfsherz> planetmaker, excellent ones. thank you



12:32:08  <planetmaker> you're welcome



12:33:34  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/test.sav <-- my current status of affairs; it needs re-generation, though



12:35:22  <andythenorth>  planetmaker I will await surprises when I join the game :)



12:35:32  <andythenorth> it's one of the novelties of MP for me ;)



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12:36:22  <planetmaker> oki :-)



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12:52:42  <andythenorth> tt-forums are sad :(



12:52:47  <andythenorth> orudge: ^



12:54:38  <orudge> yes



12:54:40  <orudge> I'm quite aware



12:54:43  <orudge> otherwise it wouldn't be broken :p



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12:55:30  <andythenorth> jolly good



12:56:32  <orudge> that's better



12:57:02  <planetmaker> andythenorth: parameter for FIRS: max. distance to coast for water-industries



12:57:10  <planetmaker> default = unlimited



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13:08:22  <andythenorth> planetmaker: industries that build on water?



13:08:34  <planetmaker> fishing grounds, dredging sites



13:09:21  <andythenorth> ok



13:09:26  <andythenorth> I have no objection to that



13:09:33  <andythenorth> the cb28 stuff is easy to extend



13:09:42  <andythenorth> it's practically a plug-in architecture :P



13:09:58  <planetmaker> I just build a lot of islands and peninsulas in order that people can reach them without going bancrupt due to expensive ships and helicopters :-P



13:10:11  <andythenorth> just include yet another check in the cb28 pipeline



13:10:15  <andythenorth> it's not hard



13:10:18  <andythenorth> write a ticket :)



13:10:45  <andythenorth> I'll happily trade it for that cb28 refactoring in trunk :D



13:11:44  * andythenorth wonders if there's a convenient var for distance to coast



13:11:52  <frosch123> yes



13:12:02  <andythenorth> checking n tiles on some kind of flood pattern would be...sub optimal



13:12:31  <frosch123> var 8b during cb 28



13:12:44  <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Industries#Manhattan_distance_of_closest_dry_land_tile_43_



13:12:50  <andythenorth> nice



13:13:29  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it should be ok that it just checks distance from north tile?



13:13:36  <andythenorth> i.e. no point checking for every tile



13:13:39  <planetmaker> yes



13:13:59  <planetmaker> I just "need" it to make sure it can be within station coverage ;-)



13:14:14  <andythenorth> blearch :D



13:14:19  <andythenorth> use ships, that's what they're for :P



13:14:43  <andythenorth> or use the canal - dynamite hack to build stations out on water



13:15:04  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I could add it now if you want



13:15:12  <andythenorth> you'd have to help make it a parameter though :)



13:15:34  <planetmaker> I can look at it. give me a few minutes till then, though



13:15:40  <planetmaker> this map is fixed ;-)



13:15:46  <andythenorth> I'll do the cb28 part



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13:16:23  <andythenorth> "distance to the closest empty dry land tile" <- is quite specific



13:16:42  <andythenorth> means large towns / stations on coast would block industry construction



13:18:35  <frosch123> that's not how it works in ottd :)



13:19:07  <andythenorth> so the spec is wrong?



13:19:18  <andythenorth> or ottd is wrong? :P



13:19:22  <frosch123> the spec is unspecific as always



13:19:31  <frosch123> and ottd behaviour is flawed as always



13:19:46  <frosch123> e.g. it counts other industries on the water as land :p



13:20:21  <andythenorth> that may result in bug reports for me :)



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13:54:59  <dihedral> tada



13:55:01  <dihedral> @logs



13:55:01  <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd



13:57:29  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21994 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Fix: Make computations of closest-land/water-distances handle waterish tiles more correctly.



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13:59:12  <dihedral> oh - looks like frosch123 is still at it :-P



13:59:46  * andythenorth should write that check



14:00:04  <andythenorth> if I do distance 1 - distance 2, do I need to worry about signed bytes?



14:00:05  <frosch123> at what?



14:00:28  <andythenorth> I can take max (0, delta) I guess



14:01:09  <andythenorth> there's no mod() operator in advanced varaction 2?



14:01:45  <andythenorth> as usual, my eyes were wrong :P



14:02:29  <andythenorth> or I should use op 12



14:04:52  <Hirundo> That depends on what you want to achieve ... :)



14:05:33  <andythenorth> enforce max distance from coast for water industries



14:05:44  <andythenorth> I have the answer :)



14:05:48  <andythenorth> hmm



14:06:08  <frosch123> what difference do you want to compute?



14:06:23  <andythenorth> distance to coast vs. some arbitrary constant



14:06:37  <andythenorth> with a result that's easy to handle



14:06:41  <andythenorth> op 12 will do it



14:07:11  <andythenorth> meanwhile...could action 14 provide for a hierarchy in the newgrf menu?



14:07:18  <andythenorth> (parameters GUI sorry)



14:07:31  <frosch123> if someone codes it...



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14:08:17  <andythenorth> maybe the need for a hierarchical config is the sign of a bad newgrf :P



14:10:05  <SpComb> or the need for hierarchial newgrfs!



14:11:15  <SpComb> isn't that how ECS works?



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14:23:56  <dihedral> ECS works?



14:24:28  <George> dihedral: I think yes :D



14:24:33  <dihedral> :-D



14:24:54  <dihedral> someone has a highlight there, ey? :-D



14:25:04  <George> Yes



14:25:15  <dihedral> hihi



14:25:30  <George> An it works too :D



14:25:41  <dihedral> :P



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14:28:32  <andythenorth> high industries, 95% water



14:28:35  <andythenorth> that's a fun map :P



14:28:52  <andythenorth> nice that I figured out how to code a gap between each industry :D



14:29:30  <frosch123> i hope you use r21994 to test that



14:30:09  <andythenorth> not yet :P



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14:33:16  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21995 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Cleanup (r21994): Remove obsolete comment.



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14:47:23  <Wolfsherz> hello, can the dbsetxl be used with ecs? and does it make sense to use that train set with it?



14:48:10  <frosch123> you need to load the dbset ecs extension in addition to the dbsetxl



14:49:45  * andythenorth is in love with 'newgame' in console :P



14:49:48  <Wolfsherz> frosch123, thank you. and what about experts industries. should that one be disabled when using ecs?



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14:51:11  <andythenorth> Wolfsherz: 99% definitely



14:51:16  <andythenorth> industry sets rarely mix well



14:51:30  <Wolfsherz> thank you



14:55:59  <planetmaker> the best way to learn about NewGRFs is to generate many new games. Test the current config. Then generate another new game with (slightly) changed config



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15:02:06  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21996 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_base.hpp: -Fix [FS#4472]: [YAPF] Under some circumstances vehicles could be lost



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15:21:00  <dihedral> someone touched yapf



15:21:03  <dihedral> :-)



15:23:06  <planetmaker> probably with a long stick :-P



15:23:47  <dihedral> *poke*



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15:24:01  <dihedral> "is it still alive?"



15:24:27  * planetmaker guesses 'yes' as it's still kicking around all those vehicles



15:24:40  <planetmaker> ;-)



15:26:40  <dihedral> :-P



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15:35:22  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the game is not up yet ;-) - we should give the people some time to finish their current one



15:35:38  <andythenorth> ok :)



15:35:41  <andythenorth> and in the meantime?



15:35:48  <andythenorth> fix cb28?? :D



15:35:52  <planetmaker> :-D



15:36:17  * andythenorth visits fs



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15:43:20  * andythenorth wonders - why industry code is more...blearch...than other code I've looked at?



15:44:23  <dihedral> define 'blearch'



15:45:27  <andythenorth> go read industry_cmd.cpp



15:45:34  <andythenorth> blearch will define itself for you :P



15:45:41  <dihedral> :-D



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16:06:04  <TruePikachu> Anyone find it a bit weird that, in the Scenerio Editor, towns can trash lighthouses?



16:10:33  <TruePikachu> I was trying to halt town expansion in certain spots (prepping the city for an intra-city metro), but the town just ignored it!



16:12:07  <planetmaker> it's easy to delete houses in the SE, though



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16:14:06  <planetmaker> btw, you probably have activated the extra dynamite?



16:14:20  <TruePikachu> I know, but after many expansions, you might forget where the route went...



16:14:20  <planetmaker> then towns can grow over industries and other stuff, destroying it



16:14:55  <planetmaker> light houses remain savely here and stop town expansion



16:15:33  <TruePikachu> If you are referring to MAgic Bulldozer, I don't think it can be activated sensibily in the Scenerio Editor...



16:15:56  <planetmaker> it can't. But is it a savegame you edit?



16:16:00  <TruePikachu> Nope



16:16:21  <planetmaker> then I cannot reproduce your findings



16:16:48  <TruePikachu> Yes you can - 1.0.5, build lighthouses around a town, then expand the town



16:17:07  <planetmaker> http://imagebin.org/136412



16:17:26  <planetmaker> oh well... maybe in 1.0.5...



16:17:40  <TruePikachu> -_- I have OpenTTD going...no Firefox for images...



16:17:41  <planetmaker> I hoped you had tested at least in the current beta before you complain ...



16:17:51  <TruePikachu> Oh



16:19:40  <planetmaker> yes, in 1.0.5 it works that way...



16:20:15  <planetmaker> btw, you may notice that giving the exact version you ask about is always helpful ;-) - and there's never a 'latest' :-P



16:20:41  <TruePikachu> Yes there is - trunk



16:20:53  <planetmaker> no



16:21:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: I can't find the transcript about how to fix cb28 to try all possible layouts before bailing when building an industry



16:21:14  <planetmaker> trunk is revisions 1-n with n>=21900



16:21:14  <andythenorth> :|



16:21:15  <TruePikachu> Not even from self-compiling?



16:21:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: can you remember



16:22:05  <planetmaker> TruePikachu: and how is 'latest' then clearly distinct from 'latest stable', 'latest testing', 'latest nightly' and 'current head'?



16:22:16  <TruePikachu> Oh :P



16:22:26  <planetmaker> and how is 'latest nightly' clear when we talk today and tomorrow about the same thing?



16:22:49  <andythenorth> frosch123: I think CreateNewIndustryHelper needs to try all possible layouts



16:22:59  <TruePikachu> And commits mid-day



16:23:49  <TruePikachu> So, what's the milestone for 1.1.0?



16:24:06  <TruePikachu> NewGRF compatability?



16:24:14  <planetmaker> read the changelogs...



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16:24:29  <orudge> 1.1.0 will feature ponies!



16:24:39  <andythenorth> a horse farm :o



16:24:39  <TruePikachu> lol



16:24:40  <planetmaker> and pigs! And sheep!



16:24:55  <planetmaker> And horse-drawn carriages



16:24:57  <TruePikachu> They weren't in TTD



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16:25:11  <TruePikachu> But horse-drawn are availible in NewGRF



16:25:15  <planetmaker> we're talking of FIRS and HEQS, right? ;-)



16:25:46  <andythenorth> planetmaker: lets go adventuring in industry_cmd.cpp :P



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16:25:48  <andythenorth> CmdBuildIndustry



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16:25:57  <andythenorth> l1791 approx



16:27:02  * TruePikachu goes to make a map perfect for steak, bacon, and clothing production :P



16:27:24  <frosch123> andythenorth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2010-09-18?page=4



16:27:26  <frosch123> that one?



16:28:36  <TruePikachu> Lol @ town name generator: Darnwell



16:29:25  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks



16:29:30  <andythenorth> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2010-09-18?page=3



16:29:39  <planetmaker> :-)



16:31:25  <andythenorth> so I need to copy these lines into the loop



16:31:27  <andythenorth> 	if (HasBit(GetIndustrySpec(type)->callback_mask, CBM_IND_LOCATION)) {



16:31:28  <andythenorth> 		ret = CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation(tile, type, itspec_index, random_var8f, random_initial_bits, founder, creation_type);



16:31:28  <andythenorth> 	} else {



16:31:28  <andythenorth> 		ret = _check_new_industry_procs[indspec->check_proc](tile);



16:31:28  <andythenorth> 	}



16:31:31  <planetmaker> well... we might take a look... but I'm hungry :-O



16:31:40  <dihedral> <orudge> 1.1.0 will feature ponies! <- and you are not a pony :-P



16:31:41  <andythenorth> have a cookie ;)



16:31:44  <andythenorth> I just had about 8



16:32:00  <planetmaker> rather early dinner, I think - I had early brunch ;-)



16:32:15  * TruePikachu hasn't even had breakfast



16:33:11  <planetmaker> but we could make it a business dinner, andythenorth ;-)



16:33:21  <andythenorth> he



16:33:38  <andythenorth> I think a new function is needed that checks cb28 and CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree



16:33:45  <andythenorth> with a return value



16:33:54  <andythenorth> and should replace l1794



16:34:08  <andythenorth> it needs about 1 gazillion parameters passing though :P



16:34:19  <planetmaker> wait, we don't talk about the selective industry layout thingy?



16:34:42  <andythenorth> it is selective



16:34:49  <andythenorth> not in the most obvious way



16:34:55  <andythenorth> instead of specifying which layout to use



16:35:14  <andythenorth> we just loop on layouts until we reach an allowed one, or all are disallowed



16:35:17  <andythenorth> it comes to the same result



16:35:24  <andythenorth> without much new code needed



16:35:28  <andythenorth> and no change to newgrf spec



16:37:35  <planetmaker> hm, ok



16:38:22  <andythenorth> plus....it's how frosch told me to do it, so I guess it's right :)



16:39:46  <planetmaker> :-)



16:40:02  <andythenorth> it wouldn't be a bad project to document more industry code



16:40:12  <andythenorth> it's neither well-documented nor self-evident



16:40:33  <andythenorth> I can only understand it because I know the industry spec from newgrf side



16:40:40  <planetmaker> quite so, yes



16:42:06  <andythenorth> so first part of if statement on l1764 is prospecting



16:42:26  <andythenorth> else case is other construction - map gen, random in game, player, scenario editor



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16:44:52  <andythenorth> I don't really understand the various assignments of ret



16:45:03  <andythenorth> ret is a CommandCost object?



16:45:23  <andythenorth> l1789



16:45:51  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21997 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#4473]: when the difference between force and resistance is smaller than the mass(*4) there would be no acceleration anymore, even when at higher (or lower) speed the force and resistance balance out better



16:45:52  <Alberth> industry_cmd.cpp?



16:45:57  <andythenorth> yup



16:46:08  <andythenorth> ret appears to be assigned multiple times



16:46:20  <andythenorth> I can't follow that properly



16:46:28  <planetmaker> the function returns at several points



16:46:35  <planetmaker> depending on success or not



16:46:48  <andythenorth> yup



16:46:50  <Alberth> CommandCost ret   is just used for success/fail



16:47:27  <andythenorth> so the do loop assigns ret to the tile shape check



16:47:31  <andythenorth> and returns if that fails



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16:49:11  <Alberth> 1792 is 'i don't have any more layouts' -> returns, it seems



16:49:39  <andythenorth> and all layouts have failed at that point



16:49:59  <Alberth> 1794 tries to construct, and the 'while()' loops again if that build fails



16:50:24  <andythenorth> it should just check the tile area



16:50:32  <Alberth> yes, you are right



16:50:38  <andythenorth> l1798 is doing the actual construction test as far as I can see



16:50:52  <andythenorth> I hate the use of 'ret' in multiple places with different values



16:50:53  <Alberth> indeed



16:50:59  <andythenorth> is that standard style?



16:51:53  <Alberth> it is similar to having a temporary var 'j' or so that you use everywhere locally



16:52:03  <andythenorth> it's entirely logical, but hard to work with



16:52:21  <Alberth> ret, ret2, ret3 etc are not a big leap forward, I think



16:52:55  <andythenorth> if this was Flash or so, I would have created a separate function for each check



16:53:15  <Rubidium> but then you'd have:



16:53:28  <andythenorth> then call something like if(checkFirstThing().failed()) {return xyz}



16:53:52  <andythenorth> but then you have to go read a billion different functions, so maybe no better



16:53:56  <Rubidium> andythenorth: but you want to return the result of checkFirstThing



16:54:13  <Rubidium> CommandCost ret = checkFirstThing();



16:54:20  <Rubidium> if (ret.Failed()) return ret;



16:54:33  <Rubidium> ret = CheckSecondThing();



16:54:35  <andythenorth> doesn't ret just set the failure string to use in this case?



16:54:41  <andythenorth> initially I mean?



16:54:42  <Rubidium> if (ret.Failed()) return ret;



16:55:16  <Rubidium> initially yes, but it's overwritten by CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree



16:55:33  <andythenorth> ach



16:55:40  <andythenorth> I'll stop worrying about it



16:55:40  <Rubidium> just for the lovely case a NewGRF developer thinks it's funny to make a NewGRF with 0 layouts ;)



16:57:25  <planetmaker> andythenorth: any way I can check the success of a patch for this?



16:57:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: use the handy newgrf



16:57:42  <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131



16:57:58  * planetmaker downloads



16:58:38  <planetmaker> what industry?



16:59:16  <planetmaker> sorry, reading helps :-P



17:01:11  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that grf can confirm the current annoying trunk behaviour if cb28 blocks some layouts



17:01:26  <andythenorth> don't forget bakeries are only near town :)



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17:02:36  <andythenorth> if a patch works, it should be possible for player to fund bakery without multiple clicks until correct random layout is chosen ;)



17:03:57  *** Fuco has joined #openttd



17:17:18  <TruePikachu> Lol @ proper scheduling



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17:20:10  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21998 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r21969): Number of industries difficulty setting should not affect the SE.



17:22:01  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21999 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4474] (r21969): Use 'very low' industry density for generating industries in the SE.



17:23:00  <planetmaker> hm, andythenorth does the bakery need to be build on top of houses?



17:23:59  * ZirconiumX wonders where CIA-2 has gotten to...



17:24:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker: no



17:24:15  <Alberth> you never know with the CIA



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17:25:43  <planetmaker> hm, ok, not successful so far.



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17:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there is no CIA-9



17:31:14  * ZirconiumX also wonders where CIA-31254632838295637392890483 has gotton to :p



17:31:34  <ZirconiumX> s/gotton/gotten



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17:31:47  <orudge> s/gotten to/gone/



17:31:49  <orudge> silly Americanisms



17:32:29  <TruePikachu> Lol, I use 'gone'



17:33:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth: does it have a min distance to farms and maybe others?



17:34:20  <planetmaker> hm... seems to be the town radius. quite small ;-)



17:35:50  <TruePikachu> Is there any way to mute the RR crossing bells?



17:36:09  <planetmaker> switch off sounds?



17:36:16  <TruePikachu> -_- besides that



17:36:38  <orudge> edit the sample.cat file and replaec the sound with something muted



17:36:44  <orudge> or I guess you can do it via a GRF file, in theory



17:36:55  <TruePikachu> I think it would be a good idea to permit turning off the "RR Crossing" and "Road Reconstruction" sounds



17:37:00  <orudge> pffft



17:37:01  <TruePikachu> * as an option



17:37:05  <orudge> true TT fans would never do that



17:37:06  <orudge> :p



17:37:42  <TruePikachu> Well, I already have a headache from me being sick, and the schedule got messed up so much that there is always a train in the crossing



17:38:21  <TruePikachu> s/ the / a /



17:38:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/cb28.diff <-- does that do what you want it to do?



17:38:45  <planetmaker> It needs simplification / beautification still



17:39:10  <Yexo> TrueBrain: you can write a newgrf to turn those sounds off



17:39:19  <planetmaker> :-D



17:39:24  <Yexo> at least, the spec allows it, I'm not sure if that's actually implemented in openttd



17:39:31  * andythenorth does patch



17:39:46  <planetmaker> truebrain most likely could ;-)



17:39:52  <TrueBrain> stop highlighting me :(



17:40:10  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: very sure I can't :p



17:40:38  <Yexo> oops, sorry



17:41:24  <TrueBrain> Yexo: we already once established TruePikachu should rename himself, but what can you do ... :p



17:42:09  <orudge> FalseBrain



17:42:10  <Alberth> ban all true persons, except one? :p



17:42:28  <orudge> Alberth: tsk, we never banned OwenS, despite people trying to speak to him highlighting me instead :p



17:42:28  <TrueBrain> There is only one



17:42:31  <orudge> or, well, as wel



17:42:32  <orudge> *well



17:43:01  <orudge> anyway



17:43:02  <orudge> time for dinner



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17:49:33  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that meets the test case for bakery :D



17:49:41  <andythenorth> I need to read the diff



17:49:56  <andythenorth> but currently have the baby :o



17:49:56  <planetmaker> good. Mind, the diff is "bulky" and can be done smarter



17:50:00  <planetmaker> :-)



17:50:14  <andythenorth> I'd be worried about breaking cb28 some other place



17:51:08  <planetmaker> as it's with this patch it just tries all layouts



17:51:33  <planetmaker> so no change except that industry construction will succeed if it can succeed by means of a single layout



17:52:32  <Yexo> planetmaker: the double for loop in the last block can be replaced by something like this: for (uint i = 0; i < num_layouts; i++) { uint layout = (start_layout + i) % num_layouts;



17:52:44  <planetmaker> I updated. Check again :-)



17:52:45  <Yexo> same for the loop at the start in the diff



17:53:00  <planetmaker> you're totally right :-)



17:53:18  <Yexo> basically what you did but a bit shorter



17:53:28  <frosch123> planetmaker: you should also keep care of _cleared_object_areas



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17:53:39  <planetmaker> don't I?



17:53:53  <frosch123> you reset it on success



17:54:03  <frosch123> i guess you need to reset in on failure



17:55:15  <frosch123> i am also not sure whether town ratings and other stuff is not affected in a bad way



17:55:32  <planetmaker> hu?



17:55:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so you left CBM_IND_LOCATION in CreateNewIndustryHelper



17:56:05  <andythenorth> seems safest



17:57:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: you do multiple runs with different layouts, each may try to clear tiles



17:57:17  <Nite> (i guess the artefacts in the train status when changing speed are a known glitch)



17:57:19  <Nite> Hi



17:57:22  <planetmaker> yes. But so does the original code, doesn't it?



17:57:36  <planetmaker> just not all layouts? Or am I thoroughly mistaken there?



17:57:38  <Yexo> Nite: not sure, what exactly glitches?



17:57:45  <planetmaker> Nite: fixed already



17:57:55  <Yexo> the original code does _cleared_object_areas = object_areas; after every call to CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree



17:58:01  <Yexo> your new code doesn't



17:58:14  <Nite> very nice ...



17:58:52  <planetmaker> thanks... blind me. You're right, it should move a few lines up



18:00:21  <Nite> (and i stress again; plz make view of automatic orders optional not permanent)



18:00:26  <planetmaker> another update



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18:04:19  <frosch123> Nite: that is going to be quite confusing



18:04:40  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I should test again?



18:04:50  <planetmaker> possibly update, yes



18:04:59  <frosch123> hiding the current automatic order makes skip behaviour very weird, and hiding all automatic except the current one, makes the gui change all the time



18:05:35  <frosch123> planetmaker: is changing the prospecting code actually needed?



18:05:43  <Yexo> frosch123: and hiding _all_ automatic orders?



18:06:19  <planetmaker> frosch123: not really. But IMHO it makes sense, too. Why try 5000 times for different places and not check each layout?



18:06:24  <frosch123> Yexo: how shall skip behave then?



18:06:53  <frosch123> planetmaker: anyway, cleared_object_areas = object_areas; definitely needs to be done after the complete testrun



18:06:59  <frosch123> i.e. also after CreateNewIndustryHelper



18:07:11  <Yexo> I'm actually not sure how skip behaves now with automatic orders



18:07:13  <Yexo> going to test that first



18:07:29  <frosch123> Yexo: it goes to the next automatic order



18:08:21  <andythenorth> it probably makes more sense to modify prospecting



18:08:32  <andythenorth> otherwise the prospecting chance is distorted by random layout selection



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18:09:24  <Yexo> if you skip an automatic order but the vehicle visits that station nonetheless it'll duplicate the automatic order



18:09:34  <Yexo> ^^ bug or not?



18:09:34  <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess you do not need the call to CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree at all, do you?



18:09:41  <frosch123> CreateNewIndustryHelper calls it as well



18:09:43  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I get an assert now :)



18:09:59  <frosch123> Yexo: no bug, user fault



18:10:04  <Yexo> ok



18:10:08  <andythenorth> frosch123: that looks like it was trying to loop over layouts



18:10:19  <andythenorth> without accounting for what newgrf author may have done with cb28



18:10:28  <planetmaker> hm?



18:10:52  <Nite> frosch123 what is confusing about an on and off option ?? ... ?



18:11:27  <planetmaker> frosch123: good point with CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree



18:11:36  <planetmaker> I wonder why it's called in the current code ;-)



18:11:44  <Yexo> skip button could be solved by skipping to next non-automatic order if the display of automatic orders is disabled



18:11:54  <frosch123> Nite: if you hide them, the behaviour of move orders, skip orders, and various other stuff is undefined



18:11:55  <Nite> i had multiple created autoorders too as yexo describes



18:12:08  <Nite> even more with rvs



18:12:26  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r22000 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Introduce an enum for the industry density setting.



18:12:31  <frosch123> Yexo, Nite: what are we talking about? disabling automatic orders completely? or temporaily hiding them to get a better summary?



18:12:43  <Yexo> hiding them



18:12:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: no crash log :o



18:12:54  <Yexo> I see no reason to disable them, if you don't want any use non-stop orders



18:13:14  <Nite> i thought the view of automaic orders does not change the gameplay and is just visual



18:13:28  <Nite> as you frosch123 describe ti its not



18:13:31  <Yexo> your argument against hiding them was the the skip button would behave wierd, but the skip button could just skip to the next non-automatic order if they are hidden



18:13:42  <frosch123> Nite: it changes the effect of skip, and it may be more critical in the future



18:15:00  <Nite> iam asking about switching between the new and old behaviour - auto orders can get confusing in the creation process of orders



18:15:13  <Nite> (as said yesterday)



18:15:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: assert when I try to build bakery



18:15:27  <andythenorth> constructing coal mine is fine (I used fund not prospect)



18:15:30  <andythenorth> I'll test some more



18:15:40  <Rubidium> ooh... r22k party?



18:15:42  <planetmaker> and what assert?



18:18:03  * TruePikachu wonders whose idea it was to make tiny little property marking signs so expensive



18:18:06  <Nite> it just gets wierd when orders appear, in the process change their number, then anotherone appears anotheron dissapers anotherone bites the ... no wait ..



18:18:28  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the crash log is pretty empty



18:18:36  <andythenorth> I'm not sure if I need to increase debug level?



18:18:46  <planetmaker> I guess I have a crash.log...



18:19:00  <TruePikachu> I mean, yeah, buying land is expensive, but not as expensive as laying track on unpurchased land?



18:19:16  <TruePikachu> err...s/\?/./



18:19:39  <planetmaker> and I think I know where it went wrong ;-)



18:19:56  <andythenorth> planetmaker: check your pm



18:20:16  <frosch123> Yexo: maybe you are right, and just hiding all automatic orders might work



18:20:29  <Alberth> TruePikachu: they are very useful for blocking other players in MP



18:20:48  <Alberth> so you want to discourage that use :)



18:24:20  <TruePikachu> Oh. Why can't you just lay random rail?



18:24:28  <TruePikachu> Wait, roads :P



18:25:13  <TruePikachu> Well, now I'm wondering if the realistic acceleration has much of a penalty for starting up a train on a slope



18:25:25  <TruePikachu> Uphill, 3%



18:27:03  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r22001 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename difficulty.number_industries to difficulty.industry_density.



18:27:22  <TruePikachu> In the way of one of my routes, there is a large uphill grade, and I doubled up the tracks



18:28:04  <TruePikachu> However, I'm worried that, in the condition of a jam ahead, trains will not be able to go uphill to proceed (as they lost their momentum at a red signal)



18:28:30  <Alberth> oh, they will go up at 1km/h :)



18:28:40  <TruePikachu> Guarenteed minimum speed?



18:28:53  <Alberth> it should be



18:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you could just test it by stopping a train.



18:29:36  <TruePikachu> MSTS doesn't have such a speed; I've lost lots of progress stopping on hills...



18:30:46  <Nite> use strong enough trains tehn TruePikachu



18:30:59  <Hirundo> You could keep 1 train length before and after the slope free of signals



18:31:01  <Yexo> or don't build signals on/just after uphill slopes



18:31:06  <Nite> or will it happen with any train?



18:31:21  <George> Shouldn't this line (CB 17) disable building a house if thre is a road at SW?



18:31:21  <George>  1454 * 15     02 07 10 81 62 01 18 0F 01 00 80 02 02 01 80



18:31:38  <Nite> maka a long enough section before the hill so trains can gather speed when stopped



18:32:23  <TruePikachu> </discussion>



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18:34:17  <Prof_Frink> You could always do what we did in the good old days



18:34:42  <Prof_Frink> Remove the hill.



18:34:58  <Alberth> or lay the tracks around it :)



18:36:01  <Prof_Frink> More specifically, lay tracks around it, then dig the cutting as the money starts rolling in



18:36:07  <Terkhen> politely ask it to move aside



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18:37:51  <Yexo> <George> Shouldn't this line (CB 17) disable building a house if thre is a road at SW? <- that line looks ok



18:37:59  <Nite> remove the hill -> we play with absurdely hihg landscaping costs (500k per tile) or landscaping restricitons - it adds a nice building challenge



18:38:57  <Prof_Frink> Well, that's a problem of your own making then.



18:39:20  <TruePikachu> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=1773 << Look at what I find near that slope. (I also found a Lynx-compatable imagebin)



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18:40:24  <TruePikachu> (and when I say Lynx-compatable, I mean Lynx can upload to it)



18:43:03  <TruePikachu> Hooking to Sintfield will be a nice challenge



18:43:15  <TruePikachu> Especially since the slopes are against me



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18:45:48  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22002 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)



18:45:48  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:



18:45:48  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: belarusian - 4 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm



18:45:48  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: finnish - 38 changes by jpx_



18:45:48  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv



18:45:50  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: japanese - 42 changes by kokubunzi



18:45:50  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: polish - 7 changes by Simek



18:51:17  <planetmaker> frosch123: updated again. Further concerns?



18:52:04  <frosch123> uint layout = i + start_layout < num_layouts ? i + start_layout : i + start_layout - num_layouts; <- layout = (i + start_layout) & num_layouts



18:52:11  <frosch123> s/&/%/



18:52:49  <planetmaker> if that's faster :-)



18:53:03  <planetmaker> but probably the compiler compiles it to the same, eh? :-)



18:53:05  <frosch123> now you have removed object_areas completely :s



18:53:07  <TruePikachu> frosch123: I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I think you'd better backslash you ampersand in your s/ statement ;)



18:53:28  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes... as you pointed out, it's handled anyway in the other function



18:53:30  * TruePikachu has been using 'sed' a lot recently (the source of s/)



18:53:37  <planetmaker> as the first thing in there



18:53:52  <frosch123> oh, did not saw that :)



18:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: if you're talking about "sed", then the escaping is likely needed because of the shell



18:54:18  <TruePikachu> Actually, it's in the regular expression portion of the statement



18:54:48  <TruePikachu> Does the ampersand do something special in regular expressions? I backslash it just to be safe



18:55:11  * TruePikachu pulls up the info page



18:55:54  <TruePikachu> Ah, don't see anything RE: & in regexp



18:56:28  <frosch123> planetmaker: can you check (with some debug output), whether CreateNewIndustryHelper modifies the town rating even if it fails?



18:56:51  <planetmaker> I shall try



18:56:57  <TruePikachu> Yeah, don't mind my comment about changing the s/ statement :)



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18:58:41  <TruePikachu> -_- more evil slopes...



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19:09:11  <Yexo> planetmaker: it looks like if (num_layouts == 0) return ret; is not needed, after all if num_layouts = 0 the loop will never be entered and if (ret.Failed()) return ret; will trigger



19:09:44  <planetmaker> got a point



19:13:29  <Yexo> second part of your patch basically boils down to this: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/fix.diff



19:14:10  <Yexo> the rest is just a codechanges to make it more readable and cleanup the object_areas variable that is no longer needed



19:15:52  <planetmaker> basically yes



19:16:18  <planetmaker> But as you say, I find it this way much better understandable ;-)



19:17:06  <planetmaker> should I split into two patches?



19:17:50  <Yexo> that would make it a lot more visible what you actually change



19:18:02  <planetmaker> k



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19:23:01  <andythenorth> pah



19:23:18  <andythenorth> my browser crashed while I was writing a not-rude-but-blunt reply to Neko :P



19:23:25  <andythenorth> maybe there's a message in that



19:24:08  <planetmaker> :-)



19:25:47  <Terkhen> :)



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19:26:46  <planetmaker> oh, the canset thread? Yeah... but don't bother - he'll get his blunt reply ;-)



19:26:55  <planetmaker> I'm sure someone will ;-)



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19:29:01  <Terkhen> he seems to be good at provoking and enduring blunt replies



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19:32:05  <andythenorth> FIRS thread



19:32:14  <andythenorth> I already told him there's no iron->sste



19:32:18  <andythenorth> steel chain



19:36:35  <planetmaker> ah, not bright posting either, yeah



19:36:55  <planetmaker> beer? cookie? other beverage?



19:37:06  <planetmaker> just relax ;-)



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19:37:23  <planetmaker> (yes, I do that now, too, thus today no cb28 commit anymore :-P )



19:42:24  <andythenorth> he



19:42:42  <andythenorth> well at least there is some proof it will work



19:43:38  <planetmaker> it just needs cutting down to nice pieces :-)



19:43:51  <planetmaker> but I'm now not in beautification mood :-)



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19:47:43  <TruePikachu> planetmaker: Since when is a cookie a beverage?



19:48:14  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: beverage?  no



19:48:20  <andythenorth> intoxicant



19:48:21  <andythenorth> possibly



19:48:26  <andythenorth> depending on the company you keep



19:48:41  <TruePikachu> andythenorth: Wrong highlight -_-



19:49:20  * Eddi|zuHause should also make a list of people who deserve blunt replies



19:49:38  <TruePikachu> It would be nice if IRC clients did *nix-style tab completion



19:49:38  <andythenorth> oops  :m



19:49:50  <andythenorth> in what ways don't they?



19:49:55  <andythenorth> oh, I see



19:50:34  <TrueBrain> how I do enjoy the days TruePikachu is in this channel ... (no offense TruePikachu :p)



19:50:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to beautify some nfo parameter code?? :)



19:51:10  *** TrueBrain is now known as TB2



19:51:14  <planetmaker> another day :-) My concentration capability is at about 1% ;-)



19:51:17  <TruePikachu> It would also cut down on tab key usage when "Guest0001" through "Guest 0123" are in the same room



19:51:29  <andythenorth> he



19:51:32  <TruePikachu> Err...Guest0123



19:52:11  <andythenorth> planetmaker: not time for the new coop game yet?



19:52:35  <planetmaker> Not sure, what does V453000 say? ^



19:52:45  <planetmaker> (stable server)



19:52:59  <V453000> 21 Jan 2017 a bit too soon I think



19:53:02  <V453000> I can ask them anyway



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19:56:58  <V453000> tomorrow



19:57:45  <planetmaker> :-)



19:57:52  <V453000> maybe later today, but nobody will play it today anyway :)



20:00:20  <planetmaker> tomorrow is fine with me



20:05:19  * andythenorth ponders what next



20:10:18  <andythenorth> top gear :)



20:18:26  *** TB2 is now known as TrueBrain



20:25:05  * andythenorth has a stare-at-it-and-can't-see-it FIRS bug :(



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20:28:16  <Terkhen> good night



20:30:21  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen



20:33:02  <planetmaker> good night Terkhen



20:33:13  <planetmaker> good night all others :-)



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20:49:03  <dihedral> nio looks tasty



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21:15:21  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22003 /trunk/ (config.lib known-bugs.txt): -Document [FS#3447]: that SDL for Mac OS X might very well be unusable



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21:24:41  * kamnet ponders splitting the OpenMSX discussion off into its own topic



21:25:26  <kamnet> Or, at least, the release notices



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21:27:37  <Nite> "wagon remooval is somehow defeated by trainlength limit ... just for the record



21:27:57  <Nite> the train will not raplace at all if it gets too long, waggons are not remooved



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21:31:46  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22004 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp table/settings.h): -Change [FS#4471]: always report mammoth trains are disabled to NewGRFs, and allow the maximum train length to be modified in multiplayer as well



21:34:39  <Nite> setting the trainlenght longer than the max station size - and autoreplace woudl work again?



21:35:07  <Rubidium> Nite: well, give us a reproducable testcase by means of a (small) 64x64 savegame with a single train in the bugtracker



21:35:07  <Nite> would autoreplace check before the train lenght limit it would work again?



21:36:04  <Nite> just build a train that has the max train lenght - then try to autoreplace it to something that would make the train longer - does not work



21:36:42  <Nite> (waggon remooval on off course)



21:37:02  <Nite> ON offcource



21:37:18  <Rubidium> so ofcourse



21:37:35  <Nite> ok its ofcourse



21:37:48  <Nite> damn rusty english



21:38:34  <Prof_Frink> While you're at it, wagon and removal.



21:39:11  <dihedral> "of course" ;-)



21:39:15  <dihedral> two words



21:39:21  <dihedral> :-D



21:39:24  <dihedral> hehe



21:39:27  * dihedral goes to bed



21:39:29  <dihedral> night



21:39:34  <Nite> :D @ self



21:39:40  <Prof_Frink> Oh, and start with a capital and end with a full stop.



21:39:52  <dihedral> .nope



21:40:25  <dihedral> heh - the last commit was not mentioned in .notice



21:40:41  <dihedral> oh - i was off :-P



21:40:45  <dihedral> time for bed!!



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21:40:58  <Nite> "off course" would be away from the track"



21:41:38  <Prof_Frink> Quite.



21:42:18  <Nite> - g - o



21:42:24  <Rubidium> dihedral: it was mentioned



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22:04:52  <Nite> with the train lenght limit and autoreplace you can also run into a situation where you can not change the trains consist at all: "train too long"



22:05:05  <Nite> i hear



22:07:17  <Rubidium> ah well... it's nothing new



22:11:31  * TruePikachu just came up with a possible way to allow faster trains to pass slower ones without very complex signalling



22:11:45  <TruePikachu> It's actually simple, and works in theory



22:13:38  <TruePikachu> BUT it may cause problems if trains are too close together (as that is how it works - checking if trains are very close)



22:16:10  <TruePikachu> All it is is a passing loop where trains are penaltied towards one side (via rear-facing PBS), and priority at the merge is at the penalised side



22:16:39  <TruePikachu> If two trains are close together, it will have the first one take I.E. track 1, second takes track 2



22:16:54  <TruePikachu> Track 2 has priority over track 1



22:17:05  <TruePikachu> Therefore, train 2 passes train 1



22:18:21  <TruePikachu> But if the two trains go at the same speed, they may play leapfrog, so these shouldn't be used _very_ often



22:19:29  <andythenorth> good night



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23:22:32  <TruePikachu> It keeps confusing me when I see a train driving "backwards"



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23:25:36  <CIA-11> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22005 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r21993): Update regression tests as well



23:25:46  <TruePikachu> @*^%#& LOCAL AUTHORITY!!!



23:26:36  <TruePikachu> It's worse than you think - me not constructing actually broke my intra-city



23:27:36  <TruePikachu> Trains are entering the depot, getting bigger passenger carriages, leaving, and looking into somebody's office :(



23:28:53  <TruePikachu> That guy must be very scared, seeing trains approaching his office (that being where the tracks end) :)



23:30:59  <TruePikachu> In fact, since the train is stuck between his office and a rear-facing one way signal, it just keeps going back and forth



23:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so what exactly are you trying to tell us?



23:33:42  <TruePikachu> I hate the local authority



23:34:05  <TruePikachu> And despite my "good" rating, I still can't fix the track



23:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it looks rather like: "i am too stupid to build my network properly, and want to blame things on someone else"



23:35:00  <TruePikachu> Actually, I forgot that the depot was on a branch unable to return to the main loop, and sent all the trains there



23:35:19  <TruePikachu> Oh well. Just means less people at my major station



23:35:23  <Nite> eddi - always offending ;)



23:37:35  <TruePikachu> I decided to give that guy a break from his office job because of nervous breakdowns (that, and the building is finally gone)



23:40:20  <planetmaker> yeah. Your biggest mistake is that you still didn't update your OpenTTD



23:40:40  <planetmaker> The support for broken network designs got better meanwhile



23:45:32  <Nite> wht version do you use TruePikachu



23:47:51  <Nite> ?



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