IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-20
00:03:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21864 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4430]: distant-join station would build at the wrong location when having persistent building turned on and selecting a "second" location for the station tile
00:22:05 *** supermop has quit IRC
00:28:25 *** Eggman891 has quit IRC
00:28:48 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC
00:31:08 *** afk has joined #openttd
00:31:22 <Wolf01> 'night
00:31:26 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
00:33:06 *** afk has joined #openttd
00:37:08 *** Dreamxtreme has quit IRC
00:41:22 *** Progman has quit IRC
01:01:10 *** Mikael has quit IRC
01:01:34 *** pugi has quit IRC
01:08:22 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC
01:10:34 *** Mikael has joined #openttd
01:29:55 *** xiong has joined #openttd
01:34:38 *** Fuco has quit IRC
01:36:25 *** ar3k has quit IRC
01:36:55 *** ar3k has joined #openttd
01:50:21 *** nicfer1 has quit IRC
02:34:57 *** KritiK has quit IRC
02:39:00 *** DDR has quit IRC
02:51:18 *** afk has quit IRC
03:04:29 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
03:10:40 *** tokai has quit IRC
03:15:07 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
03:18:19 *** Dreamxtreme has quit IRC
03:29:17 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
03:52:40 *** xiong has quit IRC
04:05:00 *** fjb is now known as Guest886
04:05:02 *** fjb has joined #openttd
04:12:06 *** Guest886 has quit IRC
04:15:28 *** Pulec has quit IRC
04:19:57 *** Dreamxtreme has quit IRC
04:30:02 *** Pulec has joined #openttd
04:46:49 *** glx has quit IRC
05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC
05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:58:02 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:07:08 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
07:01:09 <Terkhen> good morning
07:11:18 <Rubidium> morning
07:12:47 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttd
07:13:14 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
07:22:38 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
07:26:54 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC
07:31:14 *** Br33z4hSlut5 has joined #openttd
07:31:23 *** Prof_Frink has quit IRC
07:33:42 *** Strid_ has quit IRC
07:33:59 *** Strid_ has joined #openttd
07:39:14 <planetmaker> moin
07:40:56 *** thomas has joined #openttd
07:41:03 *** thomas is now known as DJNekkid
08:05:19 *** DDR has joined #openttd
08:24:23 <planetmaker> hm... the symmetric / asymmetric setting for cargos is not too interesting for 'Joe' or 'Fred', I think
08:24:33 <planetmaker> it should be a cargo property for cargodist.
08:24:42 <planetmaker> as such newgrf-able
08:38:05 <Terkhen> it is the best way to support all possible cargos
08:39:12 <planetmaker> yes. I see no other. Or the code will become a mess.
08:40:14 <planetmaker> and I fear many ununderstandable new advanced settings
08:41:25 <planetmaker> at least for 'Joe' or 'Fred' ;-)
08:43:48 <Terkhen> yes, it should be kept as simple as possible
08:45:01 *** xiong has joined #openttd
08:45:23 <planetmaker> I'm not sure how crucial the other settings are and whether they need a GUI or should be cfg only like the PF settings
08:47:00 <Terkhen> I would need to try cargodist to know that for sure, but from the discusions I overheard I know it has a lot of settings
08:48:46 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:55:44 <planetmaker> yeah, same here.
09:05:28 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
09:08:33 *** thomas_ has joined #openttd
09:08:44 *** thomas_ is now known as DJNekkid
09:22:14 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
09:23:07 <Wolf01> hello
09:24:12 <Terkhen> good morning Wolf01
09:25:36 <planetmaker> moin Wolf01
09:28:33 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:28:39 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
09:34:59 *** Pulec has quit IRC
09:35:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21865 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix (r21862): don't perform savegame conversion when reinitialising some vehicle structures due to NewGRF changes
10:16:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
10:21:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
10:56:55 *** DDR has quit IRC
11:16:13 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
11:42:29 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
11:59:51 <Guest850> hey-ho
12:00:01 *** Guest850 is now known as z-MaTRiX_nonidentified
12:16:45 <peter1138> Reallocating X list to 125951168 items (2015218688 bytes) failed
12:16:48 <peter1138> good reason for failing
12:22:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21866 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4394]: [NewGRF] Rail type property to influence sorting of rail types in the drop down list
12:29:46 *** Mazur has quit IRC
12:30:53 *** Mazur has joined #openttd
12:31:37 *** IchGuckLive has joined #openttd
12:33:29 <IchGuckLive> hi all after now 8Hard Gameyears if got enove money to start a Woodfarm in Desert area! BUT it tels me it only can be placed in Rainforest , where can i see if the trees around are Rainforest ?
12:36:36 <V453000> green land
12:36:54 <IchGuckLive> Subtropical Dessert
12:37:39 *** ABCRic has joined #openttd
12:38:21 <V453000> ...
12:38:42 <V453000> yes and in subtropical there are some tiles orange as desert, and some are green as rainforest
12:39:17 <IchGuckLive> oh lumber mill
12:39:24 <IchGuckLive>
12:40:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21867 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp rail_gui.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: move creating the rail type dropdown to a more general location
12:40:24 <V453000> .
12:40:27 <V453000> .
12:40:27 <V453000> .
12:40:27 <IchGuckLive> no picture on tree type 4
12:41:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21868 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21866 and some more): the changes to the main toolbar rail types dropdown should happen for the autoreplace dropdown as well
12:41:10 <V453000> please
12:41:21 <V453000> can you TRY to build it in a green area in tropic?
12:41:31 <V453000> somewhere where it looks like deep in that area
12:41:36 <V453000> one would say it is a rainforest
12:41:48 <IchGuckLive> yes i will but it says it will chop trees type 4
12:42:20 <SmatZ> I hate registration services, where I have to choose from list of predefined control questions
12:42:55 <SmatZ> like "born name of mother / born date of family members / favourite actor / ..."
12:43:08 <SmatZ> if someone wants to steal my account, these things are not hard to find
12:43:13 <V453000> yea, thats pretty stupid
12:45:00 *** xiong has quit IRC
12:45:04 <Terkhen> I answer random stuff to those questions
12:45:22 <IchGuckLive> thanks fpr your help someone shoudt consider to expand the wiki in that way hart do get to the infos !
12:45:23 <V453000> I usually answer yes, no or something similarly simple
12:45:47 <V453000> IchGuckLive: nobody needs a wiki for funding lumber mills ...
12:46:00 <IchGuckLive> i do
12:46:14 *** IchGuckLive has quit IRC
12:46:18 <V453000> k
12:47:11 <ABCRic> V453000: a wiki is supposed to contain all knowledge :P
12:47:28 <ABCRic> whether it is needed or not
12:47:34 <V453000> well
12:47:36 <V453000> it does in this case
12:48:01 <V453000> it says where the lumber mill has to be, that it chops trees, and the other info
12:48:04 <V453000> nobody needs anything more
12:48:29 <V453000> should there be a video tutorial how to click on land to make a lumber mill? I doubt that would help this guy, he seems helpless to me
12:48:42 <V453000> human idiocy is infinite
12:49:01 <ABCRic> videos wouldn't help, they don't show mouse clicks :D :P
12:49:07 <V453000> :D yea
12:49:11 *** roboboy has quit IRC
12:49:25 <SmatZ> Terkhen: yeah :) but I would bet most people don't
12:49:30 <V453000> Click coming now ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... have you clicked?
12:49:48 <SmatZ> :D
12:49:54 <V453000> if yes, continue the video, if not, please go kill yourself
12:49:59 <SmatZ> hehe
12:50:52 <V453000> but seriously, it is a game and I think it is normal to try the stuff, and if it does not work, THEN I check wiki ... this IchGuckLive just first sees the wiki ... wtf
12:52:19 <ABCRic> V453000: be patient, and you will be rewarded... check your holy book for more detailed information
12:53:46 <V453000> holy book is nice but people stupidity kind of counters it very well
12:54:28 <Terkhen> I think that both of our current discussion topics might be closely related :)
12:54:29 *** glx has joined #openttd
12:54:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
12:54:46 <V453000> :)
12:54:59 <V453000> all topics are related that way then :D
13:00:00 <V453000> hmm terraforming is also limited for SP? :OOO
13:00:19 *** ABCRic has quit IRC
13:01:16 *** ABCRic has joined #openttd
13:01:37 <Terkhen> yes
13:02:46 <V453000> odd :)
13:02:50 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
13:02:55 *** ABCRic has quit IRC
13:03:33 *** ABCRic has joined #openttd
13:16:40 *** Pulec has joined #openttd
13:20:05 *** dfox has joined #openttd
13:24:41 *** pugi has joined #openttd
13:38:53 *** ABCRic has quit IRC
13:46:12 <dihedral> oi
13:47:03 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
14:01:18 <dihedral> <- regarding this
14:01:48 <dihedral> have an advanced settings setting, which toggles the view of all available settings
14:02:10 <peter1138> settings for settings? :S
14:02:16 <dihedral> so then some settings are per default not visible, and by checking a box, they can all be displayed even
14:02:47 <dihedral> yes, consider a router config interface - you have basic and advanced
14:02:55 <dihedral> sadly the word advanced is already taken :-P
14:03:05 <dihedral> so you could do "basic" and "full" view of settings
14:03:48 <dihedral> does that sound like a feasable idea?
14:04:37 <dihedral> [ ] yes i know what i am doing and i want access to all possible settings
14:04:57 <dihedral> are you really sure? [ ] no [x] no
14:05:10 <dihedral> [ ] cancle :-P
14:05:58 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
14:06:33 <Belugas> hello
14:06:54 <planetmaker> dihedral, It does, but I'd not tackle that before not difficulty, options, display and adv. settings are somewhat reviewed as a whole and more unified
14:07:22 <planetmaker> and possibly moved from the main menu jointly with the ai and newgrf settings to a sub-view of the new game panel
14:08:05 <planetmaker> also I'm not sure how much merit such setting really would have.
14:08:39 <dihedral> it would make all settings available via the gui, which someone has complained about
14:09:23 <dihedral> hmmm - also, do people have a chance to reset a setting to its default? (other than removing it from the config file)
14:13:58 <peter1138> how about a settings button to control the settings button to control the settings?
14:14:02 <peter1138> also: an undo knob
14:16:51 <Belugas> and a 3d underground view setting as well
14:17:07 <Belugas> i'm sure it has never been requested
14:20:41 *** Muddy has quit IRC
14:25:16 <peter1138> oh yes
14:27:15 <dihedral> peter1138, a toggle button for hiding a certain group of settings is not that uncommon ;-)
14:27:45 <peter1138> dihedral, i'm a gnome user, not a kde user ;p
14:29:35 *** Muddy has joined #openttd
14:31:28 <dihedral> same here
14:32:18 <dihedral> for some reason i always thought you were a windows guy - or am i confusing you with glx?
14:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea: make the advanced advanced options a cheat!
14:32:37 <dihedral> lol
14:32:53 <dihedral> or with a command line option
14:33:14 <dihedral> ./openttd --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing-and-really-want-to-tamper-with-other-settings-this-time-round
14:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause> cheat: allow changing newgrfs
14:33:39 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
14:33:53 <dihedral> and when newgrfs have been changed, a game cannot be saved anymore :-P
14:34:29 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, Indeed that's something I thought about
14:34:51 *** KouDy has quit IRC
14:35:03 <planetmaker> it also might have the nice effect that people do not want to cheat ;-)
14:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --yes-i-read-the-readme-about-the-implications-of-this-and-i-have-made-sure-this-setting-is-not-copypastable-becaouse-i-maed-ramdom-typeing-mistakes-in-it
14:35:17 <planetmaker> and one could call the cheater then
14:35:43 <planetmaker> :-P
14:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> all windows-users are screwed because they a) don't know how to give command line options, and b) can't read the error output
14:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> we should make it a convoluted chain of options the user has to go through
14:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> like:
14:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --knock-knock
14:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --white-rabbit
14:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --red-pill
14:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (...)
14:39:27 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
14:41:01 *** PhoenixII has joined #openttd
14:41:48 <Belugas> one pill makes you smaller
14:41:53 <Belugas> and one pill makes you tall
14:42:08 <Belugas> and the one that mother gave don't do anything at all
14:42:11 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
14:42:22 <Belugas> go ask Alice, when she was ten feet tall
14:42:34 <peter1138> good tune
14:42:44 *** PhoenixII has quit IRC
14:42:51 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
14:58:45 *** PhoenixII has joined #openttd
15:06:19 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
15:08:03 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
15:09:36 *** mukhin has joined #openttd
15:10:36 *** mukhin has quit IRC
15:29:46 *** nicfer has joined #openttd
15:37:11 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
15:40:53 *** KouDy has quit IRC
15:45:41 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
15:46:21 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
15:47:04 *** Br33z4hSlut5 has quit IRC
15:48:24 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:49:35 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttd
15:56:51 *** Lakie has joined #openttd
15:59:48 *** DJNekkid has quit IRC
16:01:08 <Belugas> quite a good one indeed;)
16:03:29 <peter1138> not that long though ;)
16:04:45 <planetmaker> small is beautiful ;-)
16:05:04 <peter1138> i was judging by the time for the response ;)
16:05:19 <planetmaker> :-D
16:05:28 <planetmaker> quite not that long indeed ;-)
16:08:56 *** KouDy has quit IRC
16:10:09 *** Pulec has quit IRC
16:15:53 <__ln__>
16:21:08 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC
16:34:50 <Belugas> hem.. let say... right now, i'm in "isolation" mode, peter1138
16:35:10 <Belugas> meaning... i'm deep into my code, i don't touch email, i don't touch phone, i'm just coding
16:35:17 <Belugas> so it's quite laggy
16:35:59 <Belugas> a feature promised a year ago, but the "managers" never actually gave me the time i required to do it
16:36:24 <Belugas> and yes, as usual, time ran out. I have two weeks to do what i said would require a month
16:36:40 <Belugas> so... i said, ok, i'll do it, but cut me from the outside.
16:36:56 <Belugas> mmh.. compiled. see ya "soon"
16:45:08 <Wolf01> lol __ln__ :D
16:45:15 <Wolf01> hello Belugas
16:57:21 *** dfox has quit IRC
17:03:52 <Katje> which version of openttd did they bring in the idea of being ble to close an airport so you can replace it ?
17:05:22 <Terkhen> none, that's a patch
17:05:24 <Wolf01>
17:05:51 <Katje> oh
17:06:58 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
17:07:04 *** Fast2 has joined #openttd
17:07:29 <LordAro> evenings
17:14:34 *** supermop has joined #openttd
17:18:48 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
17:23:45 *** Zuu has joined #openttd
17:25:01 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
17:27:19 <Belugas> hi Wolf01:)
17:27:27 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
17:28:27 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:35:31 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:39:29 *** goblin has joined #openttd
17:54:34 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
17:58:07 *** supermop has quit IRC
18:01:49 <dihedral> oi
18:03:50 <dihedral> my boss is offering me a dual quad core system with 32GB RAM :-)
18:08:06 <LordAro> :o
18:08:50 <planetmaker> sounds 'acceptable'. Just make sure the hdd is larger than 40GB :-P
18:13:59 <Belugas> who cares :) 40gb is big enough for everyone!
18:20:36 <dihedral> i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P
18:21:33 *** |Jeroen| has quit IRC
18:21:38 <planetmaker> @logs
18:21:38 <DorpsGek> planetmaker:
18:21:40 <dihedral> esx :-) yay
18:30:29 <Belugas> [13:20] <dihedral> i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P <-- he?? WATZDAT?
18:31:44 <dihedral> Belugas, serial attached SCSI
18:32:04 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC
18:34:49 <Belugas> ha
18:35:58 <peter1138> it's like SATA but with "SCSI" in the name, so they can charge more
18:36:47 <Rubidium> peter1138: what's the difference between SATA and SCSI anyhow? It's all ending up as sdX under Linux ;)
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21869 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovenian.txt):
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: japanese - 131 changes by kokubunzi
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 4 changes by ntadej
18:49:38 *** Ylioppilas has quit IRC
18:53:59 *** Ylioppilas has joined #openttd
19:12:48 *** ar3k has quit IRC
19:18:08 <SmatZ> oh no, the "beer me" guy at #tycoon again
19:18:25 <SmatZ> causing frequent highlights for me...
19:18:39 <Chris_Booth> SmatZ: are you not the Beer Miester?
19:19:01 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: actually, I haven't had a beer for several days :)
19:19:16 <SmatZ> because there are none in the house
19:19:23 <SmatZ> :)
19:19:26 <Chris_Booth> lol, High five for lazyness
19:19:29 <SmatZ> :-D
19:23:22 <dihedral> i have beer bottles in the house .... empty :-(
19:23:29 <SmatZ> :D
19:23:31 <dihedral> had them for a month
19:23:36 <dihedral> (at least)
19:28:54 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
19:32:09 <dihedral> anybody here familiar with design patterns?
19:33:04 <__ln__> i've seen one once
19:33:55 <dihedral> helpful!
19:34:06 <__ln__> a small one
19:35:36 <dihedral> i am looking for information on observer pattern and command pattern ;-)
19:35:41 <dihedral> and their uses
19:35:43 <dihedral> etc.
19:36:00 <dihedral> mainly observer
19:39:12 <__ln__> with observer you register your object to a notifier, which then calls some method of yours when something interesting happens.
19:42:54 <dihedral> i am considering using that pattern for the project 'grapes'
19:43:14 <dihedral> would change the way plugins are handled
19:43:45 <dihedral> but at this stage i do not care
19:47:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:53:43 <LordAro> hmmm... my c++ book says that #define's should be avoided at all costs...
19:53:53 <LordAro> so why are there so many in OTTD?
19:54:23 <LordAro> also, hi andythenorth :)
19:55:23 <__ln__> LordAro: because it's not at all a well written piece of C++ code.
19:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: plus it's actually mostly originating from C
19:55:49 <LordAro> well it should be changed :P
19:56:06 <LordAro> and yes, Eddi, i guessed that too
19:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, go ahead
19:56:45 <LordAro> :) not quite sure how the #define's work yet
19:56:48 <dihedral> does it not also depend on what you define?
19:59:00 <frosch123> LordAro: i would consider that a didactical lie :p
20:00:17 <Terkhen> me too, defines should be used when they are needed
20:02:54 <dihedral> also, reading advice somewhere and projecting that onto a project which has evolved over many years is silly ;-)
20:04:17 *** DDR has joined #openttd
20:04:24 <dihedral> lol - my boss is interested in OpenTTD :-D
20:05:47 <frosch123> every boss is interested for what you waste your time outside of the company :p
20:05:58 <Terkhen> :D
20:08:10 <dihedral> up to the fact that i told him i had to go early to write a patch :-D
20:08:28 <dihedral> hehe
20:08:35 <dihedral> @logs
20:08:35 <DorpsGek> dihedral:
20:15:35 * Prof_Frink shall be going to Yate Aerospace tomorrow :D
20:17:32 *** KritiK has joined #openttd
20:21:06 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:23:25 *** DDR_ has joined #openttd
20:25:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:26:11 <andythenorth> my boss loves OpenTTD
20:26:20 <andythenorth> he's even writing newgrfs :P
20:26:44 <Markk> I wan't a cool boss too.
20:26:54 <Markk> My just walks around and says "How's it goin'?"
20:27:03 <andythenorth> that's bossing
20:27:07 <andythenorth> mine does that a lot too
20:27:18 <Markk> He's a rare pokémon.
20:27:49 <Markk> Just shows up, ignores you for 5 seconds and then dissapears.
20:27:57 <frosch123> [21:26] <andythenorth> he's even writing newgrfs :P <- yeah, but he wastes a lot of time on lego :p
20:28:16 <andythenorth> wastes?
20:28:24 <andythenorth> invests :P
20:28:55 *** DDR has quit IRC
20:29:05 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR
20:29:27 <Rubidium> isn't investing like wasting, but the government repays you for whatever is lost on your "investment"?
20:29:48 <andythenorth> hmm
20:29:56 <planetmaker> meh... anyone wants a factor 10000? I've a spare one, just don't know where :S
20:30:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: did you confuse km and gigaangstroms ?
20:30:36 <planetmaker> I wish :-)
20:30:53 <planetmaker> I hope I didn't confuse mbar and Pa...
20:31:26 <frosch123> that would be 100
20:31:30 <planetmaker> yeah
20:31:36 <Rubidium> **2 ;)
20:31:39 <planetmaker> ^^
20:32:57 *** Fuco has joined #openttd
20:33:36 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
20:34:33 *** Fast2 has quit IRC
20:37:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: "do remember though that the clear land will also have an affect on building tracks or road" <- au contraire
20:38:17 <dihedral> really?
20:38:18 <Rubidium> clearing done by building isn't accounted for, just the stick of dynamite
20:38:29 <dihedral> uhhhh sweet :-)
20:39:11 *** volta has joined #openttd
20:39:55 <dihedral> updated :-)
20:40:26 <dihedral> i hope the bits of math are enough to give people an idea :-)
20:41:57 <Rubidium> dihedral: would be sweet if it were a (sub)section in docs/multiplayer.txt
20:42:13 <volta> hi folks. is the following a bug or a feature: if i drag to build multiple signals i get block signals even if the signal i started with is for example a combo signal
20:42:14 <dihedral> perhaps a bit more compact ;-)
20:43:13 <volta> this works fine for the two path signals, but not for entry, exit and combo signals
20:43:52 <Rubidium> volta:
20:44:12 <Rubidium> for combo signals the behaviour has been changed recently
20:45:10 <Hirundo> with division, both negative and positive numbers are truncated towards zero, right?
20:45:11 <volta> "recently" means in nightly?
20:45:33 * Rubidium wonders why this behaviour is "okay" for (over) two years and then two people report it within a few days
20:45:47 <Rubidium> volta: yes, beta3 is too old
20:45:56 <volta> ok fine
20:46:24 <dihedral> probably new people :-)
20:46:39 <frosch123> dihedral: what is the state of joan and grapes? does it make sense to link them from docs/admin_network.txt or similiar?
20:47:03 <Hirundo> I wonder whether the usefulness of not dragging entry/exit signals outweighs the inconsistency / possible bug reports
20:47:15 <volta> i need masses of combo signals for priority lanes :P
20:47:33 <frosch123> Hirundo: yes
20:47:36 <dihedral> frosch123, joan is a workable library and provides an example application 'simple console'
20:47:44 <dihedral> i doubt it's worth linking to grapes currently
20:47:48 * andythenorth should do some tickets :P
20:47:50 <Rubidium> Hirundo: one person reported the inconsistency in ~5 years
20:48:23 <Rubidium> and having it behave the way it does for exit/entry signals is actually really useful
20:48:42 <Rubidium> means you can build "normal" signals away from the junction at the right interval
20:49:16 <Rubidium> otherwise you would either need to count to get the right interval, or you would drag one interval, change the signal, drag further
20:49:41 <Hirundo> Or alternatively, drag the signals before converting the first one to a presignal
20:50:31 <Hirundo> Does the relevant tooltip say something about this?
20:50:36 *** heffer has quit IRC
20:50:48 <Rubidium> Hirundo: unlikely
20:50:49 <volta> to be able to drag "convert signal" would also be nice
20:50:56 <Rubidium> or is it already two books long?
20:51:52 <frosch123> volta: i would only miss that for electric/semaphore conversion. makes no sense for other types, does it?
20:53:13 <frosch123> but a electric/semaphore conversion while keeping the signal type does not match the behaviour of the convert-signal tool
20:53:43 <volta> you're right, it's a lame idea
20:54:10 <Hirundo> It's already the second longest string in the list, only the 'goto' tooltip is even longer
20:57:53 *** ar3k has joined #openttd
20:58:55 *** DDR has quit IRC
21:01:09 <dihedral> Rubidium, i think the minimum value of terraform_frame_burst should be 4 to avoid misconfiguration by people setting it to 1
21:01:22 <dihedral> which would result in no terraforming being able to take place
21:01:33 <dihedral> oh hmmm said nothing
21:02:04 <dihedral> which would also mean that disabeling terraforming would not be possible :-(
21:02:06 <dihedral> forget it :-D
21:02:24 <Rubidium> burst 1 means you can only terraform one tile height
21:02:58 *** Fast2 has joined #openttd
21:05:33 *** LordAro has quit IRC
21:05:33 <planetmaker> dihedral, 1 is meaningful.
21:08:51 <dihedral> i thought 1 means you can terraform one tile corner - which in most cases is not possible
21:09:22 <planetmaker> give it a shot. TF one corner is always possible
21:09:46 <dihedral> no, because in most cases you need to tf 4 corners ;-)
21:09:51 <dihedral> for tile corners
21:10:01 <planetmaker> it's in corners...
21:10:13 <planetmaker> one corner borders to 4 tiles. But so what?
21:10:25 <dihedral> eh?
21:10:31 <planetmaker> your presumed scale is off by a factor of 4
21:10:39 <dihedral> a setting of 1 = 4 tile corners?
21:10:53 <dihedral> no
21:10:56 <planetmaker> one grid corner
21:11:02 <dihedral> i presume that tf of one spot affects 4 tiles
21:11:10 <planetmaker> don't presume. Test.
21:11:12 <Rubidium> but it's not counted in tiles
21:11:14 *** Lakie has quit IRC
21:11:18 <dihedral> hgggr
21:11:22 <Rubidium> terraforming is counted in tile heights
21:11:38 <planetmaker> dihedral, I did test it. So you arguing is pointless ;-)
21:11:49 <Rubidium> a tile height is one height level at one of those white dots when playing with the terraforming tool
21:11:51 <dihedral> it's not because it helps me understand :-D
21:12:14 <planetmaker> then test it in the border cases. It helps understand VERY quickly. You'd know by now 10 times
21:12:22 <Rubidium> so presume a flat area, then raising it once you get a cost of 1 "tf" action
21:13:13 <Rubidium> raising that same point for a second time will cost you 5 "tf" actions; all four neighbouring "dots" need to be raised and the center "dot"
21:13:37 <dihedral> yes
21:14:40 <Rubidium> next higher is 13 "tf" actions, and after that it's 25 "tf"
21:15:32 <planetmaker> thus it counts the individual TF actions needed, if done every single step separately
21:17:40 *** volta has quit IRC
21:19:25 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: The intention of ext-rating is that the rating calculation yields the same result as before as long as there's no transfer cargo waiting at other stations.
21:19:53 <fonsinchen> Shall I write that in the code or as a separate document somewhere?
21:22:22 *** DayDreamer has quit IRC
21:23:21 <dihedral>
21:23:48 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: the point was that some constants got changed, e.g. the threshold for removing cargo with low ratings seems to be halved
21:24:38 <fonsinchen> yes, but waiting_avg is waiting / 2 for stations without external cargo
21:24:46 <fonsinchen> so it amounts to the same thing
21:25:16 *** xiong has joined #openttd
21:25:37 <Rubidium> ah, okay
21:25:47 <Rubidium> I was thinking num_dests would be 0
21:26:17 <dihedral> specifying a different max value would be interesting for the limits
21:26:33 *** ABCRic has joined #openttd
21:26:56 <fonsinchen> The map size might be 0 but then there is no cargo
21:26:59 <dihedral> still letting the inital limit inherrit from burst
21:27:12 <fonsinchen> That's a corner case; maybe I should think about it.
21:27:38 <fonsinchen> Then waiting is 0 anyway, though.
21:27:39 <Rubidium> when there is no cargo then I don't care about spoiling cargo
21:27:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:28:50 <Rubidium> so I'd add something like /* Only 0 when there is no cargo, otherwise (even without cargo destinations) 1 or more. */ before num_dests
21:28:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21870 /trunk/docs/admin_network.txt: -Doc: Mention 'joan' in the admin network documentation.
21:29:01 <dihedral> \o/
21:29:26 <fonsinchen> I did
21:29:51 <Rubidium> and maybe make it explicit that waiting_avg = waiting / 2 when cargo destinations are disabled
21:31:47 *** perk11 has joined #openttd
21:33:00 <frosch123> + As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74 <- s/companies/company's/
21:34:01 <Rubidium> 2.3s -> 2.22s ;)
21:34:46 <Rubidium> lea way -> leeway
21:35:34 <Rubidium> @calc 127*7*74/65536
21:35:34 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1.00381469727
21:36:57 <frosch123> +4.1) Imposing destructive limits <- more indenting, and a *
21:37:57 <SmatZ> +4.1) Imposing destructive limits
21:38:07 <SmatZ> there should be only 1 empty line between subchapters
21:38:46 <dihedral> updated
21:39:10 <Rubidium> leaway -> leeway
21:40:06 <SmatZ> + As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74
21:40:07 <SmatZ> + tile during the course of a single day (~2.3 seconds).
21:40:13 <SmatZ> that doesn't make much sense to me :x
21:40:17 <SmatZ> "tile"->"tiles"?
21:40:23 <SmatZ> + To archive a 1 tile per day increase the following calculation is needed:
21:40:29 <SmatZ> archive->achieve?
21:40:33 <dihedral> ops
21:40:59 <SmatZ> @dict leeway
21:41:12 <fonsinchen> I think naming an inner class of FlowStat FlowStatComparator is a little redundant.
21:41:25 <fonsinchen> I'll call it Comparator
21:41:52 <Rubidium> SmatZ:
21:42:34 <SmatZ> Rubidium: thanks, but still it doesn't make much sense to me: "The value 886 still gives enough leaway to scale this behaviour further"
21:42:42 <SmatZ> (7 days)
21:42:43 *** Adambean has quit IRC
21:42:44 <SmatZ> missing full stop
21:43:06 <dihedral> SmatZ, the value is big enough to not impose a minimum yet
21:43:48 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: you might want to take a look at as well (the end); I've got no clue about the exact warnings though
21:43:56 <dihedral> updated
21:44:18 <SmatZ> The value 886 still gives enough "allowable margin of freedom or variation" to scale this behaviour further
21:44:26 <SmatZ> makes no sense
21:44:47 <SmatZ> I would just call it space, freedom...
21:45:45 <fonsinchen> looks obscure
21:45:52 <SmatZ> if leeway == tolerance, it is weird
21:46:16 <SmatZ> but ... whatever :)
21:46:24 <SmatZ> English is not my mother tongue :p
21:47:09 <dihedral> SmatZ, it's not the mother tongue of mose players :-)
21:47:18 <dihedral> updated
21:49:22 <SmatZ> "destructive limits" sounds funny :)
21:49:41 <Rubidium> maybe destruction limits is better
21:51:39 <dihedral> updated
21:52:28 *** ABCRic_ has joined #openttd
21:53:02 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest971
21:53:02 *** ABCRic_ is now known as ABCRic
21:53:03 <planetmaker> it's called landscapeing in the language file. What about 'landscaping limits'?
21:55:48 <dihedral> very nice idea planetmaker
21:55:58 <dihedral> updated
21:58:34 *** Guest971 has quit IRC
21:59:28 *** Lakie has joined #openttd
22:01:43 <frosch123> night
22:01:47 *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:03:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21871 /trunk/docs/multiplayer.txt: -Doc: terraforming/clearing limits (dihedral)
22:04:41 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hey-ho
22:04:55 <dihedral> \o/
22:05:25 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> ahah
22:06:14 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming limits
22:06:35 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> well
22:06:46 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> played a multiplayer 2 days ago
22:06:56 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming cost a fortune
22:07:07 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> it way way enough limit
22:07:11 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> *was
22:07:13 <dihedral> depends on the server config and newgrf settings
22:07:42 <dihedral> not everybody wants to run a server with bascost newgrf
22:08:31 <planetmaker> costs are only a limit for new companies
22:09:30 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> well
22:09:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21872 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Doc: update some more documentation
22:10:17 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming cost more than building on water on other servers
22:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so?
22:11:10 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> so it was a limit
22:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> increasing basecosts only slightly shifts the point where you can't spend anymore what you earn by yourself
22:12:21 <ABCRic> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: let's call it an incentive for not destroying the landscape
22:12:32 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> ;>
22:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> [that is, as long as you manage to get one profitable line]
22:12:51 <dihedral> YAY
22:13:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, well... if you're radical with the base costs you can shift that point a bit more than slightly :-) - but generally true, of course
22:13:23 <dihedral> though it still is the 20th here :-P
22:13:55 <planetmaker> it proved quite interesting to rise them to like 100k per TF action...
22:14:18 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> :)
22:14:21 <planetmaker> also interesting is to see new people terraform a bit and then drop :-P
22:14:23 <Rubidium> but that only prevents beginners from terraforming
22:14:34 <planetmaker> of course :-)
22:15:09 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> i have tried 72k/tf
22:15:24 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> tried to build as usual
22:15:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21873 /tags/1.1.0-beta4/: -Release: 1.1.0-beta4
22:15:40 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> and spent 1M euros on a short track
22:15:53 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> didnt even complete
22:15:58 <SmatZ> hehe
22:16:14 <ABCRic> ooooh, a new beta :D when is 1.1 going to branch?
22:16:27 <SmatZ> never :(
22:16:31 <Rubidium> when love is in the air ;)
22:16:36 <SmatZ> :-)
22:16:45 <SmatZ> that said, never...
22:16:45 <planetmaker> :-)
22:16:47 <dihedral> 2000-never :-P
22:17:26 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC
22:17:58 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> make version number exponential
22:18:01 <ABCRic> well, I guess that means that new features will always be made available in the next release :)
22:18:05 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> so never reaches 1.0
22:18:07 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> <;
22:18:45 <SmatZ> :)
22:18:58 <planetmaker> ehm... you're aware that many exponential functions.... ;-)
22:19:03 <SmatZ> it has actually already happened
22:20:20 <dihedral> which means we will never (again) reach 1.0
22:20:56 <SmatZ> :)
22:21:46 <planetmaker> yeah... version numbers better are some kind of injective function...
22:22:29 <dihedral> flightgear has a discussion on their mailing list before each release, discussing which version number they should use for the release
22:22:31 <dihedral> :-P
22:23:11 *** thomas has joined #openttd
22:23:13 <Rubidium> pff... just bump the minor every year and the major every decade ;)
22:23:34 <dihedral> they only have a release once a year :-P
22:23:38 <dihedral> so that could work :-D
22:24:19 <Terkhen> good night
22:24:45 <dihedral> good night Terkhen
22:25:27 <Rubidium> night Terkhen
22:26:00 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hmm
22:26:12 <dihedral> i will say the same - have an appointment at a client tomorrow
22:26:20 <planetmaker> g'night dihedral
22:26:23 <dihedral> night :-)
22:26:26 <SmatZ> good night dihedral
22:29:01 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
22:29:25 <ABCRic> I'm off as well, good night all
22:29:28 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
22:29:53 <planetmaker> oh, good night and hello then in this order :-)
22:29:59 *** ABCRic has quit IRC
22:30:33 *** Fast2 has quit IRC
22:31:19 *** Ammler is now known as marcel
22:31:50 <SmatZ> good night planetmaker
22:32:05 *** marcel is now known as Ammler
22:32:22 <Nite_Owl> Later planetmaker
22:32:28 <planetmaker> uhm... :-) I said 'good night' to ABCRic ;-) - but thank you
22:32:43 <Nite_Owl> Oops
22:32:46 <planetmaker> I think it's about time indeed :-)
22:33:04 <planetmaker> so, yes, have a good night all of you friendly folks :-)
22:33:43 <Nite_Owl> Advanced Settings -> Stations -> Cargo Handling -> Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand - Do NOT change this setting during a running game ?? I did and my trains were suddenly loading to 125% or more...
22:33:58 <SmatZ> oh :)
22:34:05 <planetmaker> you're not using a buggy nightly?
22:34:12 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> btw
22:34:19 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> there was a server
22:34:26 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> simulation america
22:34:29 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: upgrade your openttd
22:34:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> with terraforming locked
22:34:34 <Nite_Owl> Which one was buggy - I have today's nightly
22:34:39 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> <;
22:34:46 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: yesterday's one
22:35:01 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> creating tunnels made a bit terraforming but it was forbidden
22:35:20 <Nite_Owl> Even with today's nightly I got the same behavior
22:35:32 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: really? baaad
22:35:37 *** perk11 has quit IRC
22:35:38 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> <;
22:35:50 <Nite_Owl> Could be that the save was off of yesterday's nightly ??
22:36:01 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: if r21869 is broken for you...
22:36:08 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: it's possible, yes
22:36:13 <Rubidium> the savegame's just broken
22:36:18 <SmatZ> that if it had loaded >100%, it won't stop loading
22:37:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> savegame size increased while loading?
22:37:42 <SmatZ> :P
22:38:10 <Nite_Owl> I did go back to an earlier auto save and all seemed well again. So it has nothing to do with the Advanced Setting but with the buggy nightly and any game saved under that nightly.
22:38:12 <SmatZ> it's about vehicles loading over 100%
22:38:25 *** goblin has quit IRC
22:38:29 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> ah
22:38:30 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: it's always possible there is another bug :)
22:38:32 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> :)
22:38:38 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> its not a big problem
22:38:42 <SmatZ> yes, it is
22:38:50 <SmatZ> vehicles won't leave the station
22:38:50 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> more peope on the train
22:38:54 <SmatZ> :P
22:39:10 <SmatZ> possibly creating a black hole
22:39:12 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> like +10% standing
22:39:21 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hehe
22:39:26 <Nite_Owl> Also more cargo on freight which slows trains down to a crawl\
22:39:41 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> oc you can use a saw and bags to take more passengers too
22:39:56 <SmatZ> :D
22:40:21 <SmatZ> or burn them
22:40:26 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hm
22:40:50 *** KouDy has joined #openttd
22:40:53 <Nite_Owl> So I can change the Advanced Setting as long as I use a save from before the buggy nightly ??
22:41:01 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> sure, take money before trip, and doesnt even have to transport
22:41:28 <SmatZ> :D
22:41:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> but city population will suffer ;>>
22:42:06 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: you should be able to
22:42:23 <SmatZ> but if it says "do NOT change in-game", it has some reason
22:42:28 <SmatZ> like, it won't work at all
22:42:57 <Nite_Owl> There is no warning on the Advanced Setting
22:43:13 <SmatZ> ok
22:43:20 <SmatZ> still, I am not sure if that will work
22:43:30 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> btw
22:43:51 <Nite_Owl> So r21861 was the buggy release ??
22:44:03 <SmatZ> it was a nightly build
22:44:10 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> if terraforming locking a game, wouldnt it be easy to disable the terraforming palette?
22:44:10 <SmatZ> they are supposed to be unstable
22:44:22 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: terraforming palette?
22:44:38 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> in the upper menu
22:44:42 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> the tools
22:44:45 <Nite_Owl> r21861 was yesterday if my folder is correct
22:44:49 <SmatZ> I think it would be confusing
22:45:18 <SmatZ> r21861 has broken vehicle loading
22:45:28 <SmatZ> r21869 should be fine wrt. that
22:45:42 <SmatZ> unless you load a broken savegame
22:45:48 <Nite_Owl> Very good - Thank You
22:45:53 <SmatZ> you are welcome
22:47:29 *** Biolunar has quit IRC
22:47:36 *** thomas is now known as DJNekkid
22:49:08 <Nite_Owl> Is there a way to check which version a save game was created with ?? Console debug or some such thing - my memory fails me.
22:49:30 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: open console, type "gamelog"
22:49:44 <Nite_Owl> Thanks once again
22:50:22 <SmatZ> :)
22:52:47 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> openttd does not put version number in savegame?
22:53:12 <SmatZ> it does
22:53:45 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hm so its not plaintext
22:53:56 <SmatZ> savegames are compressed
22:54:02 <SmatZ> else they would be huge
22:54:05 <SmatZ> like, even over 100MB
22:54:08 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> i see
22:54:11 <Wolf01> 'night
22:54:14 <SmatZ> good night Wolf01
22:54:25 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:54:26 <Nite_Owl> later Wolf01
22:54:31 <Nite_Owl> too late
22:54:34 <SmatZ> :)
22:54:47 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> never too late :)
22:55:11 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> eternity
22:59:35 *** DDR has joined #openttd
23:01:54 *** Lakie has quit IRC
23:05:28 *** Kurimus has quit IRC
23:17:48 <Nite_Owl> All sorted. Lost a bit of stuff I built last night but nothing that cannot be rebuilt. Such is the price for playing on the cutting edge.
23:19:08 *** KouDy has quit IRC
23:19:20 *** DJ_Nekkid has joined #openttd
23:19:24 <SmatZ> :)
23:19:41 <Nite_Owl> The rebuilding should be easy if I can remember what it looked like. I know what I want it to do but how I went about doing it is another story.
23:21:32 *** DJ_Nekkid has quit IRC
23:22:32 *** Progman has quit IRC
23:22:35 <fonsinchen> Enough coding style for today.
23:22:38 <fonsinchen> Good night
23:22:38 <Nite_Owl> At least it was not my fiddling about with that Advanced Setting. After a bit of research I am going to need that Advance Setting to make things a bit easier for what I am trying to do.
23:22:45 <SmatZ> night fonsinchen
23:22:48 <Nite_Owl> later fonsinchen
23:23:32 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC
23:24:11 <Nite_Owl> I need to feed - later all
23:24:17 *** Nite_Owl has quit IRC
23:25:18 *** supermop has joined #openttd
23:32:34 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC
23:49:51 *** Zuu has quit IRC
23:51:16 *** xiong has quit IRC