IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-20
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00:03:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21864 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4430]: distant-join station would build at the wrong location when having persistent building turned on and selecting a "second" location for the station tile
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08:24:23 <planetmaker> hm... the symmetric / asymmetric setting for cargos is not too interesting for 'Joe' or 'Fred', I think
08:24:33 <planetmaker> it should be a cargo property for cargodist.
08:24:42 <planetmaker> as such newgrf-able
08:38:05 <Terkhen> it is the best way to support all possible cargos
08:39:12 <planetmaker> yes. I see no other. Or the code will become a mess.
08:40:14 <planetmaker> and I fear many ununderstandable new advanced settings
08:41:25 <planetmaker> at least for 'Joe' or 'Fred' ;-)
08:43:48 <Terkhen> yes, it should be kept as simple as possible
08:45:23 <planetmaker> I'm not sure how crucial the other settings are and whether they need a GUI or should be cfg only like the PF settings
08:47:00 <Terkhen> I would need to try cargodist to know that for sure, but from the discusions I overheard I know it has a lot of settings
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09:35:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21865 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix (r21862): don't perform savegame conversion when reinitialising some vehicle structures due to NewGRF changes
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12:16:45 <peter1138> Reallocating X list to 125951168 items (2015218688 bytes) failed
12:16:48 <peter1138> good reason for failing
12:22:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21866 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4394]: [NewGRF] Rail type property to influence sorting of rail types in the drop down list
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12:33:29 <IchGuckLive> hi all after now 8Hard Gameyears if got enove money to start a Woodfarm in Desert area! BUT it tels me it only can be placed in Rainforest , where can i see if the trees around are Rainforest ?
12:36:54 <IchGuckLive> Subtropical Dessert
12:38:42 <V453000> yes and in subtropical there are some tiles orange as desert, and some are green as rainforest
12:40:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21867 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp rail_gui.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: move creating the rail type dropdown to a more general location
12:40:27 <IchGuckLive> no picture on tree type 4
12:41:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21868 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21866 and some more): the changes to the main toolbar rail types dropdown should happen for the autoreplace dropdown as well
12:41:21 <V453000> can you TRY to build it in a green area in tropic?
12:41:31 <V453000> somewhere where it looks like deep in that area
12:41:36 <V453000> one would say it is a rainforest
12:41:48 <IchGuckLive> yes i will but it says it will chop trees type 4
12:42:20 <SmatZ> I hate registration services, where I have to choose from list of predefined control questions
12:42:55 <SmatZ> like "born name of mother / born date of family members / favourite actor / ..."
12:43:08 <SmatZ> if someone wants to steal my account, these things are not hard to find
12:43:13 <V453000> yea, thats pretty stupid
12:45:04 <Terkhen> I answer random stuff to those questions
12:45:22 <IchGuckLive> thanks fpr your help someone shoudt consider to expand the wiki in that way hart do get to the infos !
12:45:23 <V453000> I usually answer yes, no or something similarly simple
12:45:47 <V453000> IchGuckLive: nobody needs a wiki for funding lumber mills ...
12:47:11 <ABCRic> V453000: a wiki is supposed to contain all knowledge :P
12:47:28 <ABCRic> whether it is needed or not
12:48:01 <V453000> it says where the lumber mill has to be, that it chops trees, and the other info
12:48:04 <V453000> nobody needs anything more
12:48:29 <V453000> should there be a video tutorial how to click on land to make a lumber mill? I doubt that would help this guy, he seems helpless to me
12:48:42 <V453000> human idiocy is infinite
12:49:01 <ABCRic> videos wouldn't help, they don't show mouse clicks :D :P
12:49:25 <SmatZ> Terkhen: yeah :) but I would bet most people don't
12:49:30 <V453000> Click coming now ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... have you clicked?
12:49:54 <V453000> if yes, continue the video, if not, please go kill yourself
12:50:52 <V453000> but seriously, it is a game and I think it is normal to try the stuff, and if it does not work, THEN I check wiki ... this IchGuckLive just first sees the wiki ... wtf
12:52:19 <ABCRic> V453000: be patient, and you will be rewarded... check your holy book for more detailed information
12:53:46 <V453000> holy book is nice but people stupidity kind of counters it very well
12:54:28 <Terkhen> I think that both of our current discussion topics might be closely related :)
12:54:59 <V453000> all topics are related that way then :D
13:00:00 <V453000> hmm terraforming is also limited for SP? :OOO
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14:01:48 <dihedral> have an advanced settings setting, which toggles the view of all available settings
14:02:10 <peter1138> settings for settings? :S
14:02:16 <dihedral> so then some settings are per default not visible, and by checking a box, they can all be displayed even
14:02:47 <dihedral> yes, consider a router config interface - you have basic and advanced
14:02:55 <dihedral> sadly the word advanced is already taken :-P
14:03:05 <dihedral> so you could do "basic" and "full" view of settings
14:03:48 <dihedral> does that sound like a feasable idea?
14:04:37 <dihedral> [ ] yes i know what i am doing and i want access to all possible settings
14:04:57 <dihedral> are you really sure? [ ] no [x] no
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14:06:54 <planetmaker> dihedral, It does, but I'd not tackle that before not difficulty, options, display and adv. settings are somewhat reviewed as a whole and more unified
14:07:22 <planetmaker> and possibly moved from the main menu jointly with the ai and newgrf settings to a sub-view of the new game panel
14:08:05 <planetmaker> also I'm not sure how much merit such setting really would have.
14:08:39 <dihedral> it would make all settings available via the gui, which someone has complained about
14:09:23 <dihedral> hmmm - also, do people have a chance to reset a setting to its default? (other than removing it from the config file)
14:13:58 <peter1138> how about a settings button to control the settings button to control the settings?
14:16:51 <Belugas> and a 3d underground view setting as well
14:17:07 <Belugas> i'm sure it has never been requested
14:27:15 <dihedral> peter1138, a toggle button for hiding a certain group of settings is not that uncommon ;-)
14:27:45 <peter1138> dihedral, i'm a gnome user, not a kde user ;p
14:32:18 <dihedral> for some reason i always thought you were a windows guy - or am i confusing you with glx?
14:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea: make the advanced advanced options a cheat!
14:32:53 <dihedral> or with a command line option
14:33:14 <dihedral> ./openttd --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing-and-really-want-to-tamper-with-other-settings-this-time-round
14:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause> cheat: allow changing newgrfs
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14:33:53 <dihedral> and when newgrfs have been changed, a game cannot be saved anymore :-P
14:34:29 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, Indeed that's something I thought about
14:35:03 <planetmaker> it also might have the nice effect that people do not want to cheat ;-)
14:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --yes-i-read-the-readme-about-the-implications-of-this-and-i-have-made-sure-this-setting-is-not-copypastable-becaouse-i-maed-ramdom-typeing-mistakes-in-it
14:35:17 <planetmaker> and one could call the cheater then
14:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> all windows-users are screwed because they a) don't know how to give command line options, and b) can't read the error output
14:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> we should make it a convoluted chain of options the user has to go through
14:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --knock-knock
14:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --white-rabbit
14:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd --red-pill
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14:41:48 <Belugas> one pill makes you smaller
14:41:53 <Belugas> and one pill makes you tall
14:42:08 <Belugas> and the one that mother gave don't do anything at all
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14:42:22 <Belugas> go ask Alice, when she was ten feet tall
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16:01:08 <Belugas> quite a good one indeed;)
16:03:29 <peter1138> not that long though ;)
16:04:45 <planetmaker> small is beautiful ;-)
16:05:04 <peter1138> i was judging by the time for the response ;)
16:05:28 <planetmaker> quite not that long indeed ;-)
16:34:50 <Belugas> hem.. let say... right now, i'm in "isolation" mode, peter1138
16:35:10 <Belugas> meaning... i'm deep into my code, i don't touch email, i don't touch phone, i'm just coding
16:35:59 <Belugas> a feature promised a year ago, but the "managers" never actually gave me the time i required to do it
16:36:24 <Belugas> and yes, as usual, time ran out. I have two weeks to do what i said would require a month
16:36:40 <Belugas> so... i said, ok, i'll do it, but cut me from the outside.
16:36:56 <Belugas> mmh.. compiled. see ya "soon"
17:03:52 <Katje> which version of openttd did they bring in the idea of being ble to close an airport so you can replace it ?
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18:03:50 <dihedral> my boss is offering me a dual quad core system with 32GB RAM :-)
18:08:50 <planetmaker> sounds 'acceptable'. Just make sure the hdd is larger than 40GB :-P
18:13:59 <Belugas> who cares :) 40gb is big enough for everyone!
18:20:36 <dihedral> i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P
18:30:29 <Belugas> [13:20] <dihedral> i think 4 SAS hdd's should be alright :-P <-- he?? WATZDAT?
18:31:44 <dihedral> Belugas, serial attached SCSI
18:35:58 <peter1138> it's like SATA but with "SCSI" in the name, so they can charge more
18:36:47 <Rubidium> peter1138: what's the difference between SATA and SCSI anyhow? It's all ending up as sdX under Linux ;)
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21869 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovenian.txt):
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: japanese - 131 changes by kokubunzi
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 4 changes by ntadej
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19:18:08 <SmatZ> oh no, the "beer me" guy at #tycoon again
19:18:25 <SmatZ> causing frequent highlights for me...
19:18:39 <Chris_Booth> SmatZ: are you not the Beer Miester?
19:19:01 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: actually, I haven't had a beer for several days :)
19:19:16 <SmatZ> because there are none in the house
19:19:26 <Chris_Booth> lol, High five for lazyness
19:23:22 <dihedral> i have beer bottles in the house .... empty :-(
19:23:31 <dihedral> had them for a month
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19:32:09 <dihedral> anybody here familiar with design patterns?
19:35:36 <dihedral> i am looking for information on observer pattern and command pattern ;-)
19:39:12 <__ln__> with observer you register your object to a notifier, which then calls some method of yours when something interesting happens.
19:42:54 <dihedral> i am considering using that pattern for the project 'grapes'
19:43:14 <dihedral> would change the way plugins are handled
19:43:45 <dihedral> but at this stage i do not care
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19:53:43 <LordAro> hmmm... my c++ book says that #define's should be avoided at all costs...
19:53:53 <LordAro> so why are there so many in OTTD?
19:54:23 <LordAro> also, hi andythenorth :)
19:55:23 <__ln__> LordAro: because it's not at all a well written piece of C++ code.
19:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: plus it's actually mostly originating from C
19:55:49 <LordAro> well it should be changed :P
19:56:06 <LordAro> and yes, Eddi, i guessed that too
19:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, go ahead
19:56:45 <LordAro> :) not quite sure how the #define's work yet
19:56:48 <dihedral> does it not also depend on what you define?
19:59:00 <frosch123> LordAro: i would consider that a didactical lie :p
20:00:17 <Terkhen> me too, defines should be used when they are needed
20:02:54 <dihedral> also, reading advice somewhere and projecting that onto a project which has evolved over many years is silly ;-)
20:04:24 <dihedral> lol - my boss is interested in OpenTTD :-D
20:05:47 <frosch123> every boss is interested for what you waste your time outside of the company :p
20:08:10 <dihedral> up to the fact that i told him i had to go early to write a patch :-D
20:15:35 * Prof_Frink shall be going to Yate Aerospace tomorrow :D
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20:26:11 <andythenorth> my boss loves OpenTTD
20:26:20 <andythenorth> he's even writing newgrfs :P
20:26:44 <Markk> I wan't a cool boss too.
20:26:54 <Markk> My just walks around and says "How's it goin'?"
20:27:07 <andythenorth> mine does that a lot too
20:27:49 <Markk> Just shows up, ignores you for 5 seconds and then dissapears.
20:27:57 <frosch123> [21:26] <andythenorth> he's even writing newgrfs :P <- yeah, but he wastes a lot of time on lego :p
20:29:27 <Rubidium> isn't investing like wasting, but the government repays you for whatever is lost on your "investment"?
20:29:56 <planetmaker> meh... anyone wants a factor 10000? I've a spare one, just don't know where :S
20:30:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: did you confuse km and gigaangstroms ?
20:30:53 <planetmaker> I hope I didn't confuse mbar and Pa...
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20:37:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: "do remember though that the clear land will also have an affect on building tracks or road" <- au contraire
20:38:18 <Rubidium> clearing done by building isn't accounted for, just the stick of dynamite
20:40:26 <dihedral> i hope the bits of math are enough to give people an idea :-)
20:41:57 <Rubidium> dihedral: would be sweet if it were a (sub)section in docs/multiplayer.txt
20:42:13 <volta> hi folks. is the following a bug or a feature: if i drag to build multiple signals i get block signals even if the signal i started with is for example a combo signal
20:42:14 <dihedral> perhaps a bit more compact ;-)
20:43:13 <volta> this works fine for the two path signals, but not for entry, exit and combo signals
20:44:12 <Rubidium> for combo signals the behaviour has been changed recently
20:45:10 <Hirundo> with division, both negative and positive numbers are truncated towards zero, right?
20:45:11 <volta> "recently" means in nightly?
20:45:33 * Rubidium wonders why this behaviour is "okay" for (over) two years and then two people report it within a few days
20:45:47 <Rubidium> volta: yes, beta3 is too old
20:46:24 <dihedral> probably new people :-)
20:46:39 <frosch123> dihedral: what is the state of joan and grapes? does it make sense to link them from docs/admin_network.txt or similiar?
20:47:03 <Hirundo> I wonder whether the usefulness of not dragging entry/exit signals outweighs the inconsistency / possible bug reports
20:47:15 <volta> i need masses of combo signals for priority lanes :P
20:47:36 <dihedral> frosch123, joan is a workable library and provides an example application 'simple console'
20:47:44 <dihedral> i doubt it's worth linking to grapes currently
20:47:48 * andythenorth should do some tickets :P
20:47:50 <Rubidium> Hirundo: one person reported the inconsistency in ~5 years
20:48:23 <Rubidium> and having it behave the way it does for exit/entry signals is actually really useful
20:48:42 <Rubidium> means you can build "normal" signals away from the junction at the right interval
20:49:16 <Rubidium> otherwise you would either need to count to get the right interval, or you would drag one interval, change the signal, drag further
20:49:41 <Hirundo> Or alternatively, drag the signals before converting the first one to a presignal
20:50:31 <Hirundo> Does the relevant tooltip say something about this?
20:50:49 <volta> to be able to drag "convert signal" would also be nice
20:50:56 <Rubidium> or is it already two books long?
20:51:52 <frosch123> volta: i would only miss that for electric/semaphore conversion. makes no sense for other types, does it?
20:53:13 <frosch123> but a electric/semaphore conversion while keeping the signal type does not match the behaviour of the convert-signal tool
20:53:43 <volta> you're right, it's a lame idea
20:54:10 <Hirundo> It's already the second longest string in the list, only the 'goto' tooltip is even longer
21:01:09 <dihedral> Rubidium, i think the minimum value of terraform_frame_burst should be 4 to avoid misconfiguration by people setting it to 1
21:01:22 <dihedral> which would result in no terraforming being able to take place
21:01:33 <dihedral> oh hmmm said nothing
21:02:04 <dihedral> which would also mean that disabeling terraforming would not be possible :-(
21:02:24 <Rubidium> burst 1 means you can only terraform one tile height
21:05:33 <planetmaker> dihedral, 1 is meaningful.
21:08:51 <dihedral> i thought 1 means you can terraform one tile corner - which in most cases is not possible
21:09:22 <planetmaker> give it a shot. TF one corner is always possible
21:09:46 <dihedral> no, because in most cases you need to tf 4 corners ;-)
21:10:01 <planetmaker> it's in corners...
21:10:13 <planetmaker> one corner borders to 4 tiles. But so what?
21:10:31 <planetmaker> your presumed scale is off by a factor of 4
21:10:39 <dihedral> a setting of 1 = 4 tile corners?
21:11:02 <dihedral> i presume that tf of one spot affects 4 tiles
21:11:10 <planetmaker> don't presume. Test.
21:11:12 <Rubidium> but it's not counted in tiles
21:11:22 <Rubidium> terraforming is counted in tile heights
21:11:38 <planetmaker> dihedral, I did test it. So you arguing is pointless ;-)
21:11:49 <Rubidium> a tile height is one height level at one of those white dots when playing with the terraforming tool
21:11:51 <dihedral> it's not because it helps me understand :-D
21:12:14 <planetmaker> then test it in the border cases. It helps understand VERY quickly. You'd know by now 10 times
21:12:22 <Rubidium> so presume a flat area, then raising it once you get a cost of 1 "tf" action
21:13:13 <Rubidium> raising that same point for a second time will cost you 5 "tf" actions; all four neighbouring "dots" need to be raised and the center "dot"
21:14:40 <Rubidium> next higher is 13 "tf" actions, and after that it's 25 "tf"
21:15:32 <planetmaker> thus it counts the individual TF actions needed, if done every single step separately
21:19:25 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: The intention of ext-rating is that the rating calculation yields the same result as before as long as there's no transfer cargo waiting at other stations.
21:19:53 <fonsinchen> Shall I write that in the code or as a separate document somewhere?
21:23:48 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: the point was that some constants got changed, e.g. the threshold for removing cargo with low ratings seems to be halved
21:24:38 <fonsinchen> yes, but waiting_avg is waiting / 2 for stations without external cargo
21:24:46 <fonsinchen> so it amounts to the same thing
21:25:47 <Rubidium> I was thinking num_dests would be 0
21:26:17 <dihedral> specifying a different max value would be interesting for the limits
21:26:56 <fonsinchen> The map size might be 0 but then there is no cargo
21:26:59 <dihedral> still letting the inital limit inherrit from burst
21:27:12 <fonsinchen> That's a corner case; maybe I should think about it.
21:27:38 <fonsinchen> Then waiting is 0 anyway, though.
21:27:39 <Rubidium> when there is no cargo then I don't care about spoiling cargo
21:28:50 <Rubidium> so I'd add something like /* Only 0 when there is no cargo, otherwise (even without cargo destinations) 1 or more. */ before num_dests
21:28:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21870 /trunk/docs/admin_network.txt: -Doc: Mention 'joan' in the admin network documentation.
21:29:51 <Rubidium> and maybe make it explicit that waiting_avg = waiting / 2 when cargo destinations are disabled
21:33:00 <frosch123> + As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74 <- s/companies/company's/
21:35:34 <Rubidium> @calc 127*7*74/65536
21:35:34 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1.00381469727
21:36:57 <frosch123> +4.1) Imposing destructive limits <- more indenting, and a *
21:37:57 <SmatZ> +4.1) Imposing destructive limits
21:38:07 <SmatZ> there should be only 1 empty line between subchapters
21:40:06 <SmatZ> + As a day consists of 74 frames, a companies limit is increased by 74
21:40:07 <SmatZ> + tile during the course of a single day (~2.3 seconds).
21:40:13 <SmatZ> that doesn't make much sense to me :x
21:40:23 <SmatZ> + To archive a 1 tile per day increase the following calculation is needed:
21:41:12 <fonsinchen> I think naming an inner class of FlowStat FlowStatComparator is a little redundant.
21:41:25 <fonsinchen> I'll call it Comparator
21:42:34 <SmatZ> Rubidium: thanks, but still it doesn't make much sense to me: "The value 886 still gives enough leaway to scale this behaviour further"
21:43:06 <dihedral> SmatZ, the value is big enough to not impose a minimum yet
21:44:18 <SmatZ> The value 886 still gives enough "allowable margin of freedom or variation" to scale this behaviour further
21:44:47 <SmatZ> I would just call it space, freedom...
21:45:52 <SmatZ> if leeway == tolerance, it is weird
21:46:24 <SmatZ> English is not my mother tongue :p
21:47:09 <dihedral> SmatZ, it's not the mother tongue of mose players :-)
21:49:22 <SmatZ> "destructive limits" sounds funny :)
21:49:41 <Rubidium> maybe destruction limits is better
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21:53:03 <planetmaker> it's called landscapeing in the language file. What about 'landscaping limits'?
21:55:48 <dihedral> very nice idea planetmaker
22:03:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21871 /trunk/docs/multiplayer.txt: -Doc: terraforming/clearing limits (dihedral)
22:04:41 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hey-ho
22:06:14 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming limits
22:06:46 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> played a multiplayer 2 days ago
22:06:56 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming cost a fortune
22:07:07 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> it way way enough limit
22:07:13 <dihedral> depends on the server config and newgrf settings
22:07:42 <dihedral> not everybody wants to run a server with bascost newgrf
22:08:31 <planetmaker> costs are only a limit for new companies
22:09:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21872 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Doc: update some more documentation
22:10:17 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> terraforming cost more than building on water on other servers
22:11:10 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> so it was a limit
22:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> increasing basecosts only slightly shifts the point where you can't spend anymore what you earn by yourself
22:12:21 <ABCRic> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: let's call it an incentive for not destroying the landscape
22:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> [that is, as long as you manage to get one profitable line]
22:13:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, well... if you're radical with the base costs you can shift that point a bit more than slightly :-) - but generally true, of course
22:13:23 <dihedral> though it still is the 20th here :-P
22:13:55 <planetmaker> it proved quite interesting to rise them to like 100k per TF action...
22:14:21 <planetmaker> also interesting is to see new people terraform a bit and then drop :-P
22:14:23 <Rubidium> but that only prevents beginners from terraforming
22:15:09 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> i have tried 72k/tf
22:15:24 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> tried to build as usual
22:15:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21873 /tags/1.1.0-beta4/: -Release: 1.1.0-beta4
22:15:40 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> and spent 1M euros on a short track
22:15:53 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> didnt even complete
22:16:14 <ABCRic> ooooh, a new beta :D when is 1.1 going to branch?
22:16:31 <Rubidium> when love is in the air ;)
22:17:58 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> make version number exponential
22:18:01 <ABCRic> well, I guess that means that new features will always be made available in the next release :)
22:18:05 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> so never reaches 1.0
22:18:58 <planetmaker> ehm... you're aware that many exponential functions.... ;-)
22:19:03 <SmatZ> it has actually already happened
22:20:20 <dihedral> which means we will never (again) reach 1.0
22:21:46 <planetmaker> yeah... version numbers better are some kind of injective function...
22:22:29 <dihedral> flightgear has a discussion on their mailing list before each release, discussing which version number they should use for the release
22:23:13 <Rubidium> pff... just bump the minor every year and the major every decade ;)
22:23:34 <dihedral> they only have a release once a year :-P
22:23:38 <dihedral> so that could work :-D
22:26:12 <dihedral> i will say the same - have an appointment at a client tomorrow
22:29:01 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
22:29:25 <ABCRic> I'm off as well, good night all
22:29:53 <planetmaker> oh, good night and hello then in this order :-)
22:31:19 *** Ammler is now known as marcel
22:32:05 *** marcel is now known as Ammler
22:32:28 <planetmaker> uhm... :-) I said 'good night' to ABCRic ;-) - but thank you
22:32:46 <planetmaker> I think it's about time indeed :-)
22:33:04 <planetmaker> so, yes, have a good night all of you friendly folks :-)
22:33:43 <Nite_Owl> Advanced Settings -> Stations -> Cargo Handling -> Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand - Do NOT change this setting during a running game ?? I did and my trains were suddenly loading to 125% or more...
22:34:05 <planetmaker> you're not using a buggy nightly?
22:34:19 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> there was a server
22:34:26 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> simulation america
22:34:29 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: upgrade your openttd
22:34:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> with terraforming locked
22:34:34 <Nite_Owl> Which one was buggy - I have today's nightly
22:34:46 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: yesterday's one
22:35:01 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> creating tunnels made a bit terraforming but it was forbidden
22:35:20 <Nite_Owl> Even with today's nightly I got the same behavior
22:35:32 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: really? baaad
22:35:50 <Nite_Owl> Could be that the save was off of yesterday's nightly ??
22:36:01 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: if r21869 is broken for you...
22:36:08 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: it's possible, yes
22:36:13 <Rubidium> the savegame's just broken
22:36:18 <SmatZ> that if it had loaded >100%, it won't stop loading
22:37:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> savegame size increased while loading?
22:38:10 <Nite_Owl> I did go back to an earlier auto save and all seemed well again. So it has nothing to do with the Advanced Setting but with the buggy nightly and any game saved under that nightly.
22:38:12 <SmatZ> it's about vehicles loading over 100%
22:38:30 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: it's always possible there is another bug :)
22:38:38 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> its not a big problem
22:38:50 <SmatZ> vehicles won't leave the station
22:38:50 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> more peope on the train
22:39:10 <SmatZ> possibly creating a black hole
22:39:12 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> like +10% standing
22:39:26 <Nite_Owl> Also more cargo on freight which slows trains down to a crawl\
22:39:41 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> oc you can use a saw and bags to take more passengers too
22:40:53 <Nite_Owl> So I can change the Advanced Setting as long as I use a save from before the buggy nightly ??
22:41:01 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> sure, take money before trip, and doesnt even have to transport
22:41:33 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> but city population will suffer ;>>
22:42:06 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: you should be able to
22:42:23 <SmatZ> but if it says "do NOT change in-game", it has some reason
22:42:28 <SmatZ> like, it won't work at all
22:42:57 <Nite_Owl> There is no warning on the Advanced Setting
22:43:20 <SmatZ> still, I am not sure if that will work
22:43:51 <Nite_Owl> So r21861 was the buggy release ??
22:44:10 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> if terraforming locking a game, wouldnt it be easy to disable the terraforming palette?
22:44:10 <SmatZ> they are supposed to be unstable
22:44:22 <SmatZ> z-MaTRiX_nonidentified: terraforming palette?
22:44:38 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> in the upper menu
22:44:42 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> the tools
22:44:45 <Nite_Owl> r21861 was yesterday if my folder is correct
22:44:49 <SmatZ> I think it would be confusing
22:45:18 <SmatZ> r21861 has broken vehicle loading
22:45:28 <SmatZ> r21869 should be fine wrt. that
22:45:42 <SmatZ> unless you load a broken savegame
22:45:48 <Nite_Owl> Very good - Thank You
22:47:36 *** thomas is now known as DJNekkid
22:49:08 <Nite_Owl> Is there a way to check which version a save game was created with ?? Console debug or some such thing - my memory fails me.
22:49:30 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: open console, type "gamelog"
22:52:47 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> openttd does not put version number in savegame?
22:53:45 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> hm so its not plaintext
22:53:56 <SmatZ> savegames are compressed
22:54:02 <SmatZ> else they would be huge
22:54:47 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> never too late :)
22:55:11 <z-MaTRiX_nonidentified> eternity
23:17:48 <Nite_Owl> All sorted. Lost a bit of stuff I built last night but nothing that cannot be rebuilt. Such is the price for playing on the cutting edge.
23:19:20 *** DJ_Nekkid has joined #openttd
23:19:41 <Nite_Owl> The rebuilding should be easy if I can remember what it looked like. I know what I want it to do but how I went about doing it is another story.
23:22:35 <fonsinchen> Enough coding style for today.
23:22:38 <Nite_Owl> At least it was not my fiddling about with that Advanced Setting. After a bit of research I am going to need that Advance Setting to make things a bit easier for what I am trying to do.
23:24:11 <Nite_Owl> I need to feed - later all
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continue to next day ⏵
