IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-02
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00:37:35 <kjub> its not in tutorials on wikky ... cargo systems !!!
00:38:55 <kjub> train load on farm ... unload in fabric/load cargo (...?? now I have to go to houses but I made a train station in a city but it wont unload the cargo from train )
00:39:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21695 /trunk/src/ (currency.h settings.cpp settings_gui.cpp settings_type.h): -Codechange: add helper function to get the currently applicable GameSettings object
00:41:01 <kjub> ok...under factory / display chain ... is farm/factory/houses ... i build a train station in the city (houses) but it wont unload the cargo from the train :(
00:42:01 <DanMacK> The station needs to accept goods kjub
00:42:02 <planetmaker> the station tells you what cargo it accepts
00:42:26 <planetmaker> you need sufficient houses which accept goods in order to have your station accept them, too
00:42:29 <kjub> ? under build stations is only one type of station
00:42:41 <planetmaker> yes, not station type. That doesn't matter
00:42:48 <DanMacK> when you build the station though it'll say what cargoes it accepts
00:42:51 <planetmaker> good night also Terkhen
00:43:00 <Yexo> good night Terkhen and planetmaker
00:43:11 <DanMacK> You need to place near a large city to deliver goods
00:43:13 * planetmaker hands over explanations to DanMacK on grounds of tiredness. Good night Yexo and all others
00:43:30 <kjub> to all > thx ... I will try it
01:01:59 <kjub> depo .. buy new trains steam ... build 1925 lifetime 15y .. now I am in 1953 ... ????
01:02:42 <kjub> 3types newest 1935 lifetime 20y I am in 1953 .. ?
01:02:53 <Yexo> it's the lifetime of a single train
01:03:01 <Yexo> the train will get old 15 years after you buy it
01:03:03 <__ln__> I am in 2011 and we've got flying cars here.
01:03:30 <DanMacK> So if you buy it in 1953, it won't "get old" until 1973
01:04:07 <kjub> yes but ... 1953 ... how can the system sell me a steam car from 1925 with 15y lifetime ???
01:04:59 <Yexo> it'll be build in 1953 when you buy it, after that i'll have a lifetime of 15 years
01:05:16 <Yexo> so if you buy it in 1953 it that vehicle will get old in 1968
01:25:28 <kjub> hi cant build a station in a city ... goverment refuses it ... how this can be solved ?
01:25:53 <Wolf01> or bribe the local authority
01:26:54 <DanMacK> Bribing gets expensive
01:27:32 * DanMacK will build his station first before building the connecting tracks
01:30:33 <kjub> where is the bribr frature ?
01:31:35 <Zuu> you need to have enough money for it to show up in the town action list.
01:31:59 <Zuu> trees is a much cheaper solution
01:32:20 <Zuu> demolish tiles within a near distance of the city and then plant trees on them.
01:32:26 <Zuu> (one tree per tile is enough)
01:33:44 <kjub> when I miss the sign of new invented engine ... how can I than get the new model between buy new vehicles options ?
01:33:52 <Zuu> You can use the query tool to find how far away from the city that tiles are still related to the city.
01:36:23 <kjub> when a new engine is invented ... you get a blu screen showing y/n to try it
01:36:50 <kjub> later is it possible to get back to those models ? if you choose n ?
01:40:42 <DanMacK> Once they're released in a year of gametime, yes
01:40:45 <Wolf01> yes, wait a year and you can use them
01:41:39 * DanMacK wonders how the "Scotland 1956" scenario would function w/one of the new AI's...
01:57:40 <kjub> how do I place 2 signal signs on one square ?
01:58:13 <kjub> signal command and click places only one ... after clicking it change only directions
01:59:22 <DanMacK> there are several types of signals... some only show one side. First one is both ways
02:01:58 <kjub> both way signal is placed only on one side of the track and one direction on on square
02:02:31 <kjub> when I click again on that square it wont place another one on other side but it switches sides for the forst one
02:02:56 <DanMacK> is this on a square with 2 tracks though?
02:03:25 <kjub> I want to have 2x (2way sign)signs on one square
02:05:56 <kjub> It wont me place another 2way signal on one square
02:06:47 <DanMacK> Only one signal per square per track. If you've got 2 tracks side-by-side on the same tile like = then you need to move the cursor over the top track
02:07:06 <DanMacK> and it'll let you place the dual-way signal
02:08:35 <kjub> next to train station are 2x (Two-way signal) at one square
02:09:41 <Yexo> kjub: you need to be more carefull where on the tile you click
02:09:56 <Yexo> if you click on the existing signals it'll switch them between two-way, one-way, one-way other direction
02:10:03 <Yexo> if you click on the empty track it'll build signals there
02:10:04 <DanMacK> Ahhh, I think I know now
02:10:48 <DanMacK> When you're in the signal menu, there are 5 types of signals. Only the first option (the smaller signal icon) will allow you to do the standard dual signals
02:11:36 <DanMacK> You mean those signals right?
02:15:23 <kjub> yes there are 2 signals on one square
02:17:06 <DanMacK> Make sure the left-most option is clicked
02:19:09 <kjub> on the left is the option you mentioned ... but I dont know how I managed to place the 2 standard signs on ONE square
02:23:44 <kjub> sorry Dan let it be :) I dont understand to all the signals thing now
02:25:39 <DanMacK> I've been playing for years and still am figuring out signals
02:26:29 <DanMacK> remove the ones on the right (they're path signals) And select the first signal option on the elft in the menu and re-place the signals
02:27:04 <DanMacK> Right click on each signal in the menu, it'll tell you what they do
02:28:07 <DanMacK> but yeah, play with it, that's all you can do
02:35:15 <kjub> I dont know ... the right click thing doesnt work by me
02:35:44 <kjub> i have to hover for 3s and than the description pops up :(
02:38:56 <DanMacK> ahhh, used to be right click
03:00:36 <kjub> I ment ... the right click doesnt work ... i have to hover for 3s to see the popup description
03:00:54 <DanMacK> Yeah. it used to be right click on earlier versions, haven't checked it in awhile
03:02:03 <kjub> :( .. would be great if it would stay that way also no
03:02:20 <kjub> I had serious problem 3time crash ...
03:03:58 <kjub> on the same place after same action 3times in a row the same windows the same text
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08:51:36 <dihedral> happy new year Brianetta
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08:51:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you use xcode?
08:52:02 <dihedral> but not to build openttd
08:52:26 <andythenorth> I am trying to figure out how to setup a project in it so I can use the search functions
08:52:30 <dihedral> else i was also hoping he might submit a xcode project configuration to openttd :-P
08:52:59 <dihedral> i am looking forward to the 11th feb
08:53:36 <Brianetta> it's all a bit Gregorian
08:54:05 <Brianetta> and those Yanks will wait until November to hype that one up
08:55:54 <dihedral> Brianetta, the one in november is my birthday
09:00:21 <andythenorth> my mum's birthday is 11/11/11
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09:22:48 <andythenorth> * we can't draw the crossing without roadbits ;) */
09:23:11 <andythenorth> * Don't allow road to be removed from the crossing when there is tram;
09:23:39 <Terkhen> I remember that code a bit, it is quite confusing
09:24:31 <andythenorth> what I want to figure out - is the current way the only way to do it, or was it just work that wasn't done for whatever reason?
09:24:44 <andythenorth> but I don't yet know enough about the map
09:24:56 <andythenorth> fixing level crossings for trams
09:25:12 <andythenorth> if I can work that out, then given enough time, I can probably do something towards road types
09:25:20 <Terkhen> hmmm... that problem with the catenary that you mentioned?
09:25:36 <andythenorth> trams can't have a level crossing without road currently
09:26:18 <andythenorth> and DrawTile_Road
09:26:44 <andythenorth> if it can be fixed, it would be a nice fix :)
09:26:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: missing crossing graphics
09:27:04 <andythenorth> ok, I can fix that
09:27:14 <andythenorth> then the rest of the code I just rewrite until it all works?
09:27:26 <andythenorth> I'm not going to run into some map thing that blocks me?
09:27:53 <Rubidium> IIRC the map should have the bits free for 2x16 road types
09:28:59 <andythenorth> or so docs say :P
09:37:46 <andythenorth> in my limited frame of reference, C++ is more like javascript than python
09:38:05 <andythenorth> doesn't like me just sticking undeclared variables into stuff
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09:40:46 <dihedral> andythenorth, bad habbit ;-)
09:41:02 <dihedral> getting used to something like that is really bad habbit ;-)
09:52:50 <andythenorth> top 3 are result of building road across rail line
09:52:55 <andythenorth> bottom 3 are result of building rail across road
09:53:07 <andythenorth> guess there's two separate functions for building crossings :P
09:55:12 <andythenorth> rail_cmd.cpp, line 425-436, I can see what it does, but not how
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10:01:43 <andythenorth> breaking things shows you how they work :P
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10:04:02 <andythenorth> now works for both cases
10:04:06 <andythenorth> existing rail / existing road
10:04:56 <LordAro> but the rail on tram (only, no road) has disappeared! :O
10:05:34 <andythenorth> there's no graphics for it
10:05:47 <andythenorth> but meh, I'm not drawing it until I know if it can be coded
10:05:58 <andythenorth> I need to fix the 'remove road' case now
10:06:03 <andythenorth> and maybe build costs
10:06:04 <LordAro> true, but i think perhaps the rail should be on top of the tram rails...
10:07:36 <andythenorth> don't let me stop you coding that :P
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10:27:17 <andythenorth> how do I save out a patch?
10:28:12 <andythenorth> hg diff > file.diff
10:34:49 <Alberth> if you add "--git" (or add that in your defaults), you get git-style diffs, which handles some corner cases better
10:35:08 <SmatZ> + company_id = (CompanyID) atoi(argv[1]);
10:35:18 <SmatZ> there shouldn't be space between the cast and atoi()
10:35:46 <SmatZ> + if (Company::IsValidID(company_id)) {
10:35:59 <SmatZ> better if (!Company::IsValidID(company_id)) return;
10:36:26 <dihedral> SmatZ, interesting - i was told by someone rather if something than if not something
10:36:55 <SmatZ> it's better to if (..) return;
10:37:09 <SmatZ> or if (...) { ... return; }
10:37:12 <Alberth> short 'if' branches are easier to follow
10:37:20 <dihedral> SmatZ, Rubidium ^ i think you 2 should tell me the same stuff :-P
10:37:42 <SmatZ> dihedral: those things are independent on each other
10:38:02 <dihedral> i am just referring to the if (!something) return
10:38:18 <dihedral> because i had used that in the admin stuff and was asked to change it - which is why i did not use it in this patch
10:38:46 <dihedral> i am happy to change it - but i do not like changing stuff one way for one dev and another way for another dev ;-)
10:39:23 <dihedral> i'll change the upper one though
10:40:06 <dihedral> should i add a -1 to the company id for consistency with other commands?
10:40:27 <dihedral> e.g. CompanyID company_id = (CompanyID)(atoi(argv[1]) - 1);
10:40:34 <SmatZ> I guess it would make sense
10:42:58 <dihedral> question on a side note: would it make sense if the company pool started with an index of 1 instead of 0?
10:43:14 <dihedral> then all those -1 and +1 additions could be ditched
10:43:31 <SmatZ> then you could have at most 14 companies
10:43:47 <SmatZ> or you would have to add -1/+1 at other places
10:44:17 <dihedral> it gets confusing :-P
10:44:18 <SmatZ> does it make sense to set password for AI company?
10:45:03 <dihedral> i assume IsValidHumanCompany() should be enough then :-P
10:45:20 <SmatZ> Company::IsValidHumanID() I think
10:46:15 <dihedral> so - you would prefer a short if not return?
10:47:02 <SmatZ> maybe you could add message about AI company in the console, too
10:47:24 <SmatZ> + errormsg = "You have to specify a valid company ID.";
10:49:25 <Alberth> dihedral: the point of short ifs, is that it is easier to think in a sequence of cases than thinking in cases with sub-cases
10:50:20 <dihedral> i do understand the reasoning, that is not a concern
10:50:37 <dihedral> i am just confused because i was under the impression that i was told something else not that long ago
10:51:12 <dihedral> that's something you have to sort out internally
10:51:53 <SmatZ> dihedral: the mistake can be at your side as well
10:52:13 <SmatZ> eg. this situation can be different from the other one in a way you don't notice
10:52:49 <Alberth> there is no single rule that always works. Rules may conflict, at some point "best" becomes a matter of balancing, and personal preference
10:52:52 <dihedral> probably even more likely :-D
10:53:15 <dihedral> none the less, confusing :-P
10:53:57 <Alberth> welcome to programming :p
10:55:28 <dihedral> or even shorter? i.e. if (blah) return;
10:57:25 <SmatZ> I think that would be acceptable
10:57:45 <dihedral> else 07 is up with a what i just mentioned :-P
11:02:42 <Rubidium> dihedral: what are you talking about exactly?
11:07:50 <dihedral> i'll look in my irc logs
11:07:57 <dihedral> that'll help my memory i hope :-D
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11:14:17 <dihedral> i cannot find it :-( so i appologize "<SmatZ> dihedral: the mistake can be at your side as well" <- :-)
11:18:01 <dihedral> someone seems to be enjoying my openttd folder on that server ... ^^
11:19:50 <LordAro> you need to sort out your filing system, pathes all over the place ;)
11:20:52 <dihedral> there are hidden ones too :-D
11:21:04 <Rubidium> LordAro: you've never seen the notorious /o/ directory of "someone"
11:21:30 <LordAro> how did you know someone was looking at your folders?
11:21:53 <LordAro> Rubidium: nope, cos i've got no idea what you're talking about :D
11:22:20 <dihedral> i had the logs open in one of the console windows :-P
11:22:40 <dihedral> Rubidium, did you try the redirect config stuff i posted in the fs ticket?
11:23:05 <LordAro> so do you know what my ip address is now?
11:23:20 <dihedral> if you are using a proxy: no
11:23:23 <Rubidium> didn't I reply to the ticket?
11:24:45 <LordAro> dihedral: you do then :D
11:24:59 <dihedral> want it published? :-P
11:26:32 <dihedral> i replied with apach2 and nginx config so it does not affect the templates ;-)
11:26:48 <LordAro> normally, i wouldn't mind, but there are people on here who could actually do something with it, so no thanks :D
11:27:04 <dihedral> if they do: sue them
11:28:11 <dihedral> LOL? i can position my laptop in a way that limits the radio reception of my hifi :-P
11:28:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: I don't dare touching nginx's configuration anymore; did that a few times and what I wanted never worked, so you're better off talking to TrueBrain about that
11:29:08 <blathijs> dihedral: At my girlfriend's place, radio reception would be distorted when someon used the bathroom...
11:29:12 <Rubidium> though I did try to do it in lighty, but that failed as well
11:29:26 <dihedral> so basically a: will be done in 2000-never :-P
11:29:54 <dihedral> apologies TrueBrain ;-)
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12:06:05 * LordAro has just made a 1250 character long variable :D
12:09:29 * roboboy has been reading his C++ in 28 days book again
12:12:45 * dihedral just turned the water tap off in order to wash his hands
12:13:28 * Ammler just read, what bullshit you write
12:21:37 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks for comments
12:21:51 <andythenorth> I've replaced the 'if else' with what you provided
12:22:34 <andythenorth> I have no idea if the switch statement is still needed though :(
12:26:16 * andythenorth tries without switch
12:26:34 <Alberth> the kind of changes I did are useful after you have decided the code behaves as you want it. You seem to be more in the stage of figuring out what the code should actually do
12:27:41 <andythenorth> well the code so far works for me :)
12:27:42 <Alberth> switch is just a glorified multi-branch if statement, with one case, it is just a normal if :)
12:27:57 <andythenorth> I replaced it with your suggestion
12:28:00 <andythenorth> still seems to work
12:28:28 <andythenorth> I don't actually know why we're checking that case though
12:28:33 <andythenorth> if (roadtypes == ROADTYPES_ALL && road != tram) return CMD_ERROR;
12:28:55 <andythenorth> this might be a stub left over from plans for future addition of other types
12:29:08 <andythenorth> there are a couple of comments in other places suggesting similar
12:29:21 <andythenorth> looks like the intention was to handle case of HWAY
12:31:14 <Alberth> oh, that can be. You have studied that code infinitely longer than I have.
12:32:11 <Alberth> hmm, maybe not infinitely, I looked at it while preparing the comments :p
12:33:38 * andythenorth wonders if level crossing build in road_cmd.cpp and rail_cmd.cpp can be unified?
12:33:52 <andythenorth> seems odd to have it in two places with few shared functions
12:36:48 <Alberth> usually a good idea, but separate from adding road types
12:37:42 <Alberth> once you start digging you find lots of places where you can enhance the code :)
12:39:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think I have to modify the crossing code to handle road types anyway?
12:39:57 <andythenorth> unless that can all be done with one set of bit magic somewhere?
12:40:04 <andythenorth> looking at rail code, probably not :P
12:40:22 * roboboy wonders where such a unified function would belong since it isn't specific to rail or road
12:40:33 <Alberth> rail probably handles track reservations etc
12:40:47 <Terkhen> for road vehicles and rail vehicles there is a unified ground vehicle class
12:41:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21696 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Feature [FS#4362]: allow changing the AI configuration in the scenario editor / in game
12:42:14 <Alberth> unifying while adding a concept is a bad idea. Do it in 2 steps (and if you unify first, there is less code to change ;) )
12:44:05 <Terkhen> yes, something like GroundVehicle for unifying parts of the road/rail code should be good it will probably break existing RoadTypes code, though)
12:52:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21697 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_config.cpp ai_info.cpp): -Codechange: use GetGameSettings() in a few more places to enhance readability
13:19:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/grouping.png a very non-impressive grouping gui, at the top left a number of grouping concepts, at the right a (to be created) tree using the same grouping concepts in the levels, at the bottom left a number of buttons to add new levels.
13:21:35 <Alberth> where the leafs of the tree contain vehicle counts
13:22:02 * dihedral looks for something to do in the src/ folder :-P
13:22:38 <Alberth> doxyment some functions of structs :p
13:23:35 <Terkhen> that should entertain you for weeks :)
13:24:25 <roboboy> reduce code duplication :)
13:25:34 <Terkhen> trains and road vehicles could use further unifications, yes
13:27:39 <Terkhen> that's unlikely to work for the reasons already mentioned there, but feel free to try :)
13:29:59 <LordAro> Disclaimer: Please note the @:P'
13:32:38 <andythenorth> dihedral: road types :P
13:32:58 <dihedral> andythenorth, which has like nothing to do with what i usually touch
13:33:17 <andythenorth> it's good to learn :P
13:33:24 <Alberth> moving visibilty options from the 'wrench' drop down to the ^X window is also not yet taken
13:33:28 <andythenorth> I reckon it's closer to what you normally do than what I normally do
13:33:54 <dihedral> yeah but honestly it does not really interest me :-P
13:33:59 <andythenorth> dihedral: fix the comment near line 236 of road_cmd.cpp
13:34:14 <andythenorth> it's a one char typo :D
13:34:53 <andythenorth> well I have made changes in that file :)
13:35:02 <andythenorth> so I guess my line numbers are off
13:35:47 <dihedral> how about removing all references to mofphos? :-P
13:39:18 <Alberth> andythenorth: you missed the ones at lines 694 and 767 :p
13:40:16 <andythenorth> can't get em all ;)
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13:46:19 <andythenorth> crossing sprite graphic is pre-composited with the track
13:46:34 <andythenorth> that's unexpected :P
13:46:55 <andythenorth> I thought road would be an overlay on the track
13:47:11 <andythenorth> how does that work with newgrf sets? :o
13:47:30 <andythenorth> do all road sets have to provide graphics for all known rail sets?
13:48:12 <roboboy> that used to be the case pre railtypes
13:51:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you handled crossings in Swedish rails?
13:53:08 <andythenorth> seems like rail type grfs just draw track on top of a normal road piece
13:53:39 <andythenorth> but default track needs the crossing piece?
14:12:24 <LordAro> a search of 'iff' brings up over 80 results :) quite a lot in the ai files...
14:15:27 <andythenorth> the situation with graphics for level crossings with rail types isn't hugely satisfactory
14:15:46 <andythenorth> I guess it's down to newgrf authors to use the spec correctly
14:20:55 <LordAro> SmatZ: what? a notepad++ search of "iff" (whole word only) through the openttd source brings up 80 results in 45 files
14:27:36 <LordAro> oh, and there is a naughty word in network\network_client.cpp line 109 ;)
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14:32:00 <roboboy> for me it si a blank line
14:34:53 <Xaroth> [LordAro]: oh, and there is a naughty word in network\network_client.cpp line 109 ;) << note the '109'
14:35:48 <LordAro> no, notepad++ tells me 109, it's probably just that 79 lines have been added since :)
14:36:22 <IvanS> Hello there, In case somebody comes here blaming OpenTTD ;) ... it seems that there is a bug in xorg's intel drivers on Debian (and probably in other distros) that causes OpenTTD or any other SDL based app. to go completely black when switching to full screen in native resolution. (Debian Bug #602207).
14:36:22 <Alberth> LordAro: iff is not a typo
14:38:35 <Alberth> maybe he got scared of his own naughty word :p
14:40:12 <Alberth> or his screen went completely black due to the Debian bug :p
14:41:22 <IvanS> :P could be, as there is no way to fix it but rebooting
14:42:01 <Alberth> LordAro is not on Linux afaik
14:43:06 <SmatZ> [15:27:35] <LordAro> oh, and there is a naughty word in network\network_client.cpp line 109 ;) <== he uses backslash in file names
14:44:03 <Terkhen> wow, that's a big bug
14:45:58 <Alberth> bad drivers are always messy
14:56:01 <IvanS> yes... backslashes in filenames are big bug.. oh wait :P
15:01:18 <Mazur> To consider that still a 'naughty' word one must have led a very sheltered life, not?
15:01:41 <Mazur> Like, in hte USA, or something.
15:03:59 <roboboy> or old as in being say 80+
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15:08:05 <kjub> assertion failed at line 1024
15:08:17 <kjub> this error I have 5th time in a row
15:08:57 <Yexo> please upload crash.dmp / crash.log / crash.png to a new bug report at bugs.openttd.org
15:09:17 <SmatZ> "assertion failed at line 1024" is most likely fixed in trunk/beta2
15:09:30 <SmatZ> verify it still crashes in trunk or beta2
15:09:37 <SmatZ> before submitting the bug report
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15:09:50 <SmatZ> because that had been reported many many times
15:10:00 <Yexo> <@SmatZ> beta2? <kjub> y <- I thought that was "Yes" to "are you using beta2". Hence my reaction
15:10:29 <SmatZ> Yexo: I don't know what that meant :) I think it means "why", or "why are you asking?"
15:11:25 <Alberth> as again demonstrated: using chat speak is confusing :)
15:11:34 <SmatZ> because peerblocker sucks
15:11:56 <Yexo> just add it once to the "don't block this ip" list
15:12:29 <Alberth> kjub: any form of automatic 'shit' detection is bound to fail at some point
15:13:25 <Ammler> openttd is shit, so it does quite a good job
15:14:24 <kjub> no ... but can be hosted on shit IP server
15:14:46 <kjub> that didnt suck blocked IP from air
15:14:52 <Ammler> nah, the only thing you can blame is yourself
15:15:13 <Alberth> kjub: it no doubt uses some heuristic to decide between good and bad. Blindly following heuristics is known to fail, otherwise it is not a heuristic
15:15:28 <Mazur> Good shit, this, want a puff?
15:15:47 <SmatZ> it may be using that IWF list of bad servers written by English nuns...
15:16:03 <kjub> thx Alverth ... finaly one reasonable answer
15:20:04 <Alberth> kjub: and then you have the discussion whether you should trust other people to decide for you what is bad :p
15:20:13 <Ammler> I hope, you now will fix this issue at peerblocker...
15:20:41 <Alberth> roboboy: I found it helps if you stop reading and typing
15:20:55 <kjub> yes I use 1.1.0 beta2 ... so dont need to send it to bug
15:21:28 <SmatZ> kjub: beta2 should be fixed
15:21:35 <SmatZ> [16:09:08] <kjub> r21615
15:21:46 <SmatZ> but you said r21615 a while ago
15:22:21 <SmatZ> (for windows version, beta1 shows r21615 in the window frame)
15:23:30 <kjub> aaaaaa I downloaded both anod both installed 1.0 and 1.1...released 24th.12.
15:23:49 <kjub> on my window up is Open TTD r21615 ...
15:24:38 <kjub> didnt hope for a fix so soon ;)
15:27:07 <SmatZ> so soon? it's over a week since beta1 was released :)
15:27:17 <SmatZ> and it was fixed the next day after release...
15:27:37 <ABCRic> proof you devs are efficient :)
15:28:24 <andythenorth> it went all sweary for a bit :P
15:28:38 * andythenorth tries very hard not to swear on irc, and mostly succeeds
15:28:51 <andythenorth> I should apply that to real life
15:41:14 <dihedral> the only downside of flying model planes in winter: my fingers are frozen stiff - it's hard to type :-P
15:42:20 <Alberth> are there buoy newgrfs?
15:44:01 <Rubidium> but it might be very hard to find
15:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: may i present you this invention: gloves!
15:59:43 <dihedral> feeling of the controls is too indirect with gloves
16:01:03 <Rubidium> but... but... don't they have ice scrapers with "built in" gloves? Then they ought to have those for radio controllers as well
16:01:22 <Rubidium> if not, lets patent it!
16:02:48 <dihedral> one big fat glove, with an outlet for the antenna
16:03:42 <dihedral> but people will complain that they cannot see the display
16:03:51 <dihedral> but i am sure people would buy it
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16:44:44 <andythenorth> no-one noticed tram crossings were broken already?
16:45:41 <andythenorth> tram track is drawn over the top of the monorail sprite
16:45:59 <andythenorth> maglev is....just a bit odd
16:47:13 <andythenorth> I'm not even sure how trams would cross monorail or maglev
16:47:30 <andythenorth> for that matter, default monorail-road crossing is a bit weird
16:48:37 <Terkhen> monorail/maglev crossing over road don't make much sense
16:48:50 <andythenorth> I guess for gameplay, it sucks to disallow it
16:49:06 <Terkhen> yeah, but I wouldn't worry much if graphics look weird
17:01:01 <andythenorth> can I haz cookies?
17:03:42 * ABCRic givez andythenorth sum cookiess :)
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17:21:55 <LordAro> it's good fun to read the logs of shortly after you left... ;)
17:23:24 <LordAro> Alberth: how is "iff" not a typo?
17:23:45 <SmatZ> LordAro: iff == if and only if
17:24:35 <dihedral> monorail crossings should make some sense
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17:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> in TT original, monorail-road crossings were forbidden
17:40:07 <DanMacK> been years since I've played TTO
17:40:10 <andythenorth> I think the crossings are fixable. I'm just not sure what might break on the way
17:40:35 <LordAro> i think just new graphics are needed...
17:41:59 <andythenorth> LordAro: new graphics would be needed for every single newgrf providing roads or rails
17:42:09 <andythenorth> they would need to know about all other possible road / rail grfs
17:43:00 <LordAro> i'm only talking about the base sets :) don't care about newgrfs :p
17:47:45 <andythenorth> maglev makes no sense
17:49:23 <andythenorth> look at the rear tram line
17:49:39 <andythenorth> normal rail track + monorail are now drawn above the tram track
17:49:44 <andythenorth> maglev isn't for some reason
17:50:07 <andythenorth> I guess maybe GetCrossingRoadAxis ??
17:50:20 <andythenorth> this is my patch
17:50:35 <dihedral> pffft! TB and his 'wont fix'
17:51:15 <LordAro> andythenorth: good luck wih that :)
17:52:01 <dihedral> uh :-) happy new year sir :-)
17:52:14 <Hyronymus> can someone provide me witht the proper command line to compile a NML
17:52:41 <Yexo> nmlc file.nml -o file.grf
17:52:43 <Hyronymus> I have nml in nml-r1118 and my nml-file in a subdir of that
17:52:47 <Yexo> or -o file.nfo if you want nfo output
17:53:24 <Yexo> if you haven't installed it, you can use an indirect path like nml-r1118/nmlc file.nml -o file.grf
17:54:02 <andythenorth> is maglev made up of a ground sprite for the 'channel' part, and then some weird grey overlay for the 'magnets'
17:54:22 <Hyronymus> the funny thing is it keeps complaing about the default lng file english.lng not being available
17:54:28 <Hyronymus> no matter what I try
17:54:36 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|dinner
17:55:02 <Yexo> Hyr|dinner: from which directory are you starting nmlc? Do you have a lang/ directory inside that directory?
17:55:07 <andythenorth> I can't special case for maglev, that's (a) bonkers, and (b) same issue might come up with newgrf rail types
17:55:10 <Yexo> and an english.lng file inside that dir?
17:56:07 <LordAro> why is this still open? it's not needed, is it?
17:56:46 <Yexo> LordAro: there are many tasks with feature requests or patches that are still open and are not really needed
17:56:49 <Ammler> TrueBrain recommends uploading senarios without newgrfs and other devs recommend not changing newgrfs :-)
17:56:52 <andythenorth> I want to throw toys :P
17:57:08 <Yexo> closing can lead to a discussion about why it was closed, so often leaving it open is less work
17:58:02 <LordAro> Yexo, dihedral: but the jukebox controls work, why was this needed in the first place?
17:58:05 <dihedral> Yexo, that is cheating ^^
17:58:28 <andythenorth> now I know why trams require road pieces for level crossing :(
17:58:29 <dihedral> LordAro, how should I know? :-)
17:58:32 <Yexo> LordAro: I don't know, I'm not claiming it was ever necesary
17:58:32 <andythenorth> I'm not sure this can be fixed
17:58:39 <Yexo> just giving a reason why it might not have been closed
17:59:12 <dihedral> but the reason for closing can be added to the task
17:59:20 <dihedral> and that in fact should suffice
17:59:35 <LordAro> devs decision is final, after all :)
17:59:49 <dihedral> i.e. those tasks that have 'waiting for reporter' since 2008 could be closed :-P
18:00:18 <Ammler> closed means implemented, this sounds more like rejecting
18:00:33 <dihedral> why does 'closed' mean implemented?
18:00:47 <dihedral> i was just going to say :-P
18:00:49 <Yexo> there are many reason a task can be closed
18:01:09 <dihedral> i was snooping around bugs. and was wondering why some of them were still open actually
18:01:26 <Ammler> really, what is another reason to close a ticket?
18:01:29 <andythenorth> I can't provide new sprites that reuse default game pieces - they're not GPL
18:01:30 <Yexo> "Not a bug", "Invalid", "Bug in NewGRF", "Bug in AI", "Unreproducable are all examples of reasons to close while nothing has been fixed
18:01:55 <Yexo> dihedral: bugs or feature requests / patches?
18:02:03 <dihedral> bugs.openttd.org :-)
18:02:04 <Ammler> yhea, those are rejects, aren't?
18:02:31 <Zuu> Yexo: Your recent changes for AI config, does they allow access to the same AI config dialog from within games/SE as in the main menu?
18:02:35 <dihedral> Alberth, in some cases i just hate certain attitude - 'wont fix' or 'works for me' for an answer to everything is very annoying
18:02:41 <Rubidium> "rejected" is just a subset of "closed"
18:03:31 <Alberth> we didn't find a good use for it
18:03:52 <Yexo> LordAro: last message in that task is from september 2010, so it's not that old
18:04:03 <Yexo> patch seems to be ok, just not included in trunk
18:04:38 <Yexo> if in the future a good reason is given to implement smallmap zoom-in than that patch is ready there just waiting to be included
18:04:42 <Yexo> so no reason to close the task
18:04:46 <LordAro> yes, it got 'merged' with cargo-dist, didn't it...
18:05:09 <Alberth> fonsinchen is the author
18:05:51 <Alberth> the sole reason that patch exists is because he wanted to have a lot of information in the smallmap
18:06:55 * LordAro wonders why string names use "CENTER"...and whether the devs would accept a patch that changed it ;)
18:07:33 <Rawh> Best wishes to everyone!
18:07:40 <Rawh> and yes I'm late, just got home >.>
18:10:30 * Rubidium wonders why LordAro thinks FS#2290 is not needed
18:10:52 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
18:10:53 * andythenorth wonders how to extend tram track graphics in ottd_grf
18:13:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21698 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: incorrectly named global variable
18:13:23 <Alberth> oh, you were answering a question :p
18:14:07 <Alberth> add pixels, I think :)
18:14:34 * ZirconiumX gets irritated with Alberth, but realises I'm too hot to fight, so goes off and grabs a soda
18:14:56 <ZirconiumX> except I'm only wearing sockas and underwear
18:15:12 <Yexo> we really need to know that
18:15:15 <ZirconiumX> so tries to do so as undisturbingly as possible
18:16:03 <Alberth> andythenorth: the only way I see is to declare some new sprites in the base set
18:16:13 <andythenorth> I think that's the way to go
18:16:20 <andythenorth> I only need to draw two things
18:16:36 <andythenorth> all tram track grfs will need updating though :(
18:16:42 <Rubidium> change the spec, like signals or water/coast that supports different amounts of sprites
18:17:01 <ZirconiumX> answer: a callback to refer to the new sprites
18:17:19 <Rubidium> then it will fall back to the "old" (i.e. OpenTTD base set) sprites in case they're missing
18:17:20 <andythenorth> changing the spec will break all existing tram track grfs?
18:17:32 <ZirconiumX> so as far as grfs are concerned they don't exist
18:18:54 <Rubidium> LordAro: because there's no clear coding style rule what flavour of English to use in the source code?
18:19:13 <ZirconiumX> LordAro isn't here, is he?
18:20:19 <ZirconiumX> he's probably watching the logs
18:20:38 <andythenorth> I have improved tram crossings for rail types (this is with swedish rails)
18:20:57 <andythenorth> to fix the default track types, I need to extend ottd_grf
18:20:59 <Rubidium> then I guess my IRC client missed him leaving...
18:21:30 <Rubidium> andythenorth: could you make that screenshot with catenary disabled/hidden?
18:22:11 <ZirconiumX> Rubidium: Like the normal rail, for instance?
18:24:04 <ZirconiumX> Hmmm, not sure about the road+tram intersecting with the rail, it looks weird
18:24:27 <ZirconiumX> the rail looks as if it has 'disappeared'
18:24:48 <Rubidium> in that image is looks okay to me
18:25:16 <andythenorth> it's easy to swap the order of rail / tram overlay
18:25:28 <andythenorth> currently tram is over rail
18:25:51 <andythenorth> there's no perfect solution, because newgrf authors could draw any kind of crazy stuff in both cases
18:26:13 <ZirconiumX> try rail over tram
18:30:10 <andythenorth> there is something odd there
18:30:15 <Terkhen> as impossible as the last one, but nicer :P
18:30:26 <andythenorth> the swedish rails have black pixels only on the crossing
18:30:40 <andythenorth> not sure where that's coming from, maybe I have a palette problem
18:31:07 <ZirconiumX> I think tram over rail, because IRL the rail would be dug in the road, to allow the flanges through
18:33:12 <andythenorth> but tram over rail is better IMO
18:35:03 <andythenorth> actually, I think rail over tram is better
18:35:35 <ZirconiumX> make up your mind...
18:36:54 *** z-MaTRiX_ is now known as z-MaTRiX
18:38:37 <ZirconiumX> I can't find a picture of that in real life, so you have to ask yourself, *can* this happen
18:40:35 <Rubidium> does it matter whether it can happen?
18:40:45 <Rubidium> can you find a picture of a train running through itself?
18:40:57 <Rubidium> can you find a picture of a level crossing with maglev?
18:41:42 <George> Hi. Is it possible to remove airports in OTTD?
18:41:58 <ZirconiumX> it used to be, but AFAIK no
18:42:02 <Yexo> you mean disable them like you can with the default industries?
18:42:39 <Rubidium> demolishing one works just fine for me
18:42:40 <Yexo> yes, just make sure there are no planes inside it
18:42:41 <Alberth> a click with dynamite will work if it is empty
18:42:48 <George> I want to replace my old airport with the larger one, but I can't do it
18:43:04 <Yexo> there is most likely an aircraft somewhere on the ground
18:43:29 <Rubidium> "vehicle in the way"
18:43:48 *** ZirconiumX is now known as OTTDmaster
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18:44:10 <George> Can't clear this area message
18:44:32 <George> I did it several days later
18:44:55 <George> May the plane that just flue away from it be the reason?
18:45:24 *** Hyr|dinner is now known as Hyronymus
18:45:30 <Yexo> as long as it's taking off (even while already in the air) it's counted as "on the airport" and as such you can't remove the airport
18:45:30 *** OTTDmaster is now known as ZirconiumX
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21699 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
18:45:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 62 changes by fanioz
18:45:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:59 <Hyronymus> Yexo: I start nmlc from directory nmlc-r1118
18:46:11 <Hyronymus> a sub dir of that is dtrains
18:46:16 <Yexo> so you working directory is nmlc-r1118?
18:46:27 <Hyronymus> and a subdir of dtrains is lang
18:46:42 <Yexo> make dtrains you working directory, than start nmlc as "../nmlc"
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18:47:37 <Hyronymus> hmm, let me try if I understand what you're saying
18:53:57 <Hyronymus> I should've written down what I did when I made the dutch townnames
18:54:22 <Yexo> you'll make it a lot easier for yourself when you install nml
18:54:36 <Yexo> make sure nmlc-r1118 is your working directory, than do "python setup.py install"
18:55:37 <Yexo> after that "nmlc --version" should work from every directory
18:55:59 <Hyronymus> python not recognised as an internal or external command
18:56:36 <Yexo> how are you able to run nml without python?
18:57:09 <Yexo> but "./nmlc --version" works?
18:57:12 <ZirconiumX> it could be installed, but not recognised as a command
18:57:18 <Hyronymus> I have python installed in C:\Python26
18:58:36 <Hyronymus> nmlc.py --version works
18:58:46 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: can you stop saying things you don't have a clue about? You're starting to get on my nerves with your comments
18:58:52 <Hyronymus> nmlc --version works fails
18:59:18 <Yexo> even stranger, as there is by default no file named "nmlc.py"
18:59:31 <Hyronymus> no, I copied nmlc and attached .py
18:59:40 <Hyronymus> I read it might work on occosions
18:59:54 <Yexo> if you do "cd dtrains" first and after that "..\nmlc.py --version", does that also work?
19:00:47 <Yexo> and your nml file is in that directory?
19:01:00 <Yexo> than "..\nmlc.py file.nml -o file.grf" should work
19:01:15 <Hyronymus> to the point that it yields a code error
19:01:29 <Yexo> well, at least you're one step further
19:02:20 <andythenorth> any good reason why level crossings shouldn't show PBS reservations when a newgrf rail type is used?
19:02:29 <andythenorth> code change for that would be simple to do
19:03:05 <andythenorth> code is in the wrong place
19:03:14 <Hyronymus> I must say the debug info you get is neat
19:03:24 <andythenorth> I'm testing what happens if I move the reservation code
19:04:08 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
19:04:47 <andythenorth> ok that looks wrong
19:05:05 <andythenorth> newgrf authors would need to provide extra sprites for the reservation
19:07:50 <Alberth> they currently don't provide such sprites afaik
19:08:13 <Alberth> so just for the crossing would be somewhat weird
19:08:32 <andythenorth> wonder if that should be a separate patch? :P
19:09:09 <Alberth> merging is easy, splitting them later is much harder
19:14:24 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
19:14:33 <Hyronymus> hmm, the imaging c unit isn't installed
19:14:54 <Hyronymus> do I have to run setup from the ply directory?
19:14:54 <andythenorth> drawing the rail sprite twice is pointless
19:15:21 <andythenorth> I guess just switching palette?
19:15:28 <andythenorth> anyone clean up my C++ ?
19:16:04 <Yexo> Hyronymus: normally run "python setup.py install" from the pil directory
19:16:22 <Yexo> it might be easier to get some installer in exe form though
19:17:12 *** fjb is now known as Guest3019
19:18:19 <Alberth> andythenorth: PaletteID pal = (<long 'if' condition>) ? PALETTE_CRASH : PAL_NONE; DrawGroundSprite(rail, pal); ?
19:18:30 <Alberth> assuming 'PaletteID' exists
19:18:50 <andythenorth> PaletteID exists
19:19:19 <Alberth> or DrawGroundSprite(rail, (<long 'if' condition>) ? PALETTE_CRASH : PAL_NONE);
19:20:31 <Hyronymus> still doesn't recognise python of course
19:21:03 <Yexo> "C:\python26\bin\python.exe setup.py install" might work
19:21:18 <Yexo> or just "setup.py install"
19:24:00 <Hyronymus> ok, seems to have been installed now
19:24:21 <Alberth> andythenorth: forum may not be ideal for storing patches
19:27:42 <Hyronymus> now I get a load of text when I run nmlc.py --version
19:27:56 <Hyronymus> and it ends with no module named Image
19:29:34 <andythenorth> does nml use PIL?
19:29:52 <andythenorth> PIL is at the root of many problems with python stuff
19:30:02 <Hyronymus> according to the manual it is
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19:31:53 <Zuu> Hmm, maybe there should be a big banner on the screen that is displayed (non-removable) for games where there is a NewGRF change in the gamelog. ^^
19:32:25 <raidghost> To compile openttdlx for larger maps. How to do that on windows?
19:32:42 <Hirundo> andythenorth: What's the problem with PIL?
19:33:45 <Zuu> MinGW or Microsoft Visual studio will work on Windows.
19:33:56 <andythenorth> Hirundo: compiling / installing PIL is often tricky in python projects at work. For nml, I'm not sure
19:34:12 <Zuu> Learn to compile plain OpenTTD without any patches before tryng to compile with the larger maps patch.
19:34:31 <raidghost> 404 file not found on the download selection. A christmas gift ;)
19:35:21 <Zuu> Are you looking for the useful zip?
19:36:13 <andythenorth> how do I break my patch into smaller parts :P
19:36:55 <Zuu> I get it. But we might be on different mirror servers.
19:39:46 <Hyronymus> C:\Users\Jeroen\Documents\OpenTTD\nml-r1118\dtrains>..\nmlc.py dtrains.nml
19:39:47 <Hyronymus> nmlc: An internal error has occurred:
19:39:49 <Hyronymus> nmlc-version: r1118 (8e14adfe6003)
19:39:50 <Hyronymus> Error: (ImportError) "The _imaging C module is not installed".
19:39:52 <Hyronymus> Command: ['C:\\Users\\Jeroen\\Documents\\OpenTTD\\nml-r1118\\nmlc.py', 'dtrai
19:39:55 <Hyronymus> Location: File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 37, in __get
19:40:01 <raidghost> For the future. is there any possible way to make a menu in the game. Where to select the patch and press apply?
19:40:37 <Zuu> Patches make modification of the source code and thus the source code need to be recompiled after the patch is applied.
19:41:13 <Yexo> Hyronymus: PIL is still not installed correctly
19:41:20 <Zuu> So unless you also want to ship a compiler for each operating system that OpenTTD works with along with OpenTTD, no it will not work.
19:41:38 <Hyronymus> does it have to be installed upside-down?
19:41:59 <Yexo> it looks like the python part is installed correctly but the binary part is not
19:42:06 <Zuu> And even then, applying patches requires some manual work to resolve conflicts in case you want to apply a patch for another version than it was made for.
19:42:29 <Hyronymus> I believe you, Yexo :P
19:42:37 <Zuu> Where *some manual work* can be a really a lot of work in some cases as well.
19:42:38 <Hyronymus> and how can it be solved
19:42:59 <Hyronymus> I used that very installer I believe
19:43:18 <Hyronymus> PIL-1.1.7.win32-py2.6.exe is on my desktop
19:43:33 <Yexo> I don't know how to solve it then :(
19:43:43 <Zuu> andythenorth: Not trivial. But I would use HG queues with a fresh trunk and then apply the patch manually step by step and record it as multiple patches in HG queues.
19:44:10 <Hyronymus> can it be I have to run the setp for nmlc again after installing pil?
19:44:27 <Hyronymus> now I ran it before installing pil
19:44:29 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how small it can be
19:44:48 <andythenorth> If I split the part that changes how road bits are set in a tile, the drawing will fail
19:45:03 <andythenorth> and if I change the drawing without changing the road bits part, the drawing will fail...
19:45:21 <andythenorth> or perhaps not :D
19:45:22 <Zuu> I would say things that are logical to isolate makes sense, but concentrate on the parts that are closest in time for review and possible inclusion.
19:46:39 <Hyronymus> Yexo: reading image.py line 37 from the pil directory: class _imaging_not_installed:
19:46:40 <Hyronymus> # module placeholder
19:46:42 <Hyronymus> def __getattr__(self, id):
19:46:43 <Hyronymus> raise ImportError("The _imaging C module is not installed")
19:46:53 <Hyronymus> can it be I have to install something else for PIL?
19:47:33 <Zuu> Things that make sense in trunk even without your further changes are good candidates for trying to get into trunk sooner than later as that will hopefully both help trunk and reduce the size of your remaining patches.
19:48:10 <andythenorth> I should have installed hg patch queue earlier :P
19:52:18 <Alberth> learning on the job :)
19:53:20 <Alberth> I usually have a repo for experimenting with a MQ, and when happy, I copy things in a nice order to a second repo
19:54:02 <andythenorth> I need to do that
19:54:55 <Alberth> I use gvimdiff (vim that shows the changes between a file in the first repo and the second repo) for each changed file
19:55:15 <Alberth> Hyronymus: PIL is mostly a C module with a small Python interface wrapper
19:55:35 <andythenorth> too many things to learn at once :P
19:55:59 <Hyronymus> too much info for setting up stuff
19:56:31 <Hyronymus> I'm reading some info now on the error
19:56:38 <Hyronymus> seems to be a common one
19:57:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: and to make it more fun, there are a lot of useful ways to do it, everybody has his own style
19:57:28 <andythenorth> because I know how to code newgrf, I am baffled how I extend openttd_grf
19:57:39 <andythenorth> my brain already only thinks one way with that stuff
19:58:07 <andythenorth> where's my action 2 / 3, how do I compile etc?
19:58:12 <andythenorth> all I see is some realsprites
19:58:20 <andythenorth> where's everything else defined?
19:58:22 <Yexo> most of it is actionA / action 5
19:58:38 <Yexo> compiling is done by "make'
19:59:22 <andythenorth> how does ottd find it as a dependency?
19:59:30 <andythenorth> should I have it checked out in the same working dir?
19:59:41 <Yexo> it's part of the source code
20:00:02 <Yexo> if you checked out the source you've also checked out the source for openttd.grf
20:00:31 <andythenorth> I thought it was in a separate project?
20:00:49 <andythenorth> I had it in an old svn checkout as separate
20:00:50 <Hyronymus> ok, that didn't work either what they write on internet
20:01:44 <andythenorth> then there's probably some .h file somewhere that tells ottd there are new tram track sprites?
20:02:23 <Yexo> andythenorth: if it's an action5, try searching in newgrf.cpp for "Action 0x05"
20:02:44 <Alberth> src/table/sprites.h, apparently
20:04:12 <Alberth> src/table contains all fixed data, a simple 'grep TRAM *' was sufficient
20:09:22 <andythenorth> do I want to disable hg pull if I'm using a patch queue?
20:09:38 <andythenorth> documentation suggests so...
20:10:57 <Alberth> pulling while you have patches active in the queue is not recommended, but "hg qpop -a ; hg fetch ; hg qpush -a" is useful to stay up-to-date
20:11:20 <Alberth> although there is also 'rebase' stuff which may do the same (no idea)
20:12:00 <Alberth> where "hg fetch" = "hg pull -u" iirc
20:14:07 <Alberth> mq simply adds the applied patches as revisions (do a "hg log" after a "hg qpush")
20:18:00 <andythenorth> dihedral: is there a decent mac tool for viewing diffs?
20:18:03 <Hyronymus> btw: the copyright on opentd.org expired
20:19:31 <Zuu> Did the OpenTTD changlog format change recently?
20:20:24 <dihedral> mergeview or something like that
20:21:11 <Zuu> I've noticed that my changelog parser in OpenTTDAU have stoped to work and resorts to raw log display.
20:21:30 <Zuu> So I guess I have to dig up the source code and see what I can do.
20:27:16 <Alberth> Hyronymus: line 37 is just a placeholder class that crashes when accessed (instantiated at line 57). Line 53 is the failing import (import _imaging)
20:28:47 <Alberth> do you have a _imaging.dll (???) in site-packages? (at my Linux system: /usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/PIL/_imaging.so )
20:29:28 <Alberth> at your system quite likely C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\PIL\_imaging.<something>
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20:41:41 <andythenorth> so if I have a patch queue, I submit all to one fs ticket?
20:45:40 <Alberth> 1000 issues per year is enough :)
20:47:20 <dada_> you got 1000 issues but the bitch ain't one
20:50:08 <dihedral> what a nice first line
20:52:46 * Alberth doesn't understand it
20:53:13 <dihedral> just a waste of a line, bandwidth, space, time ...
20:53:37 <dada_> it's a pop culture reference
20:53:48 <dada_> (the worst kind of reference)
20:56:06 <dihedral> well - then i consider it a good thing that i do not know it :-P
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21:07:36 <Hyronymus> Alberth: I don't have the dll
21:09:05 <Alberth> the *.py* files are the python side of PIL, the dll is the C side with the real functionality.
21:09:32 <Hyronymus> so I have to look on internet for the dll
21:10:01 <Alberth> you'd expect that the installer works, as it did copy the *.py files
21:11:02 <Alberth> but I am utterly clueless at the windows platform
21:11:07 <andythenorth> does ottd flip some sprites? :o
21:11:23 <andythenorth> I can only find 3 definitions for crossing sprites, there should be 6
21:13:45 <Alberth> (and exit with ^Z <return> probably)
21:14:07 <Rubidium> andythenorth: possibly it's using something like CROSSING_X + axis
21:14:09 <Alberth> should give you the same line 37
21:14:48 <andythenorth> Rubidium: code suggests that...
21:14:50 <andythenorth> what does it do?
21:14:51 * Alberth learned a new python command :)
21:16:35 <Rubidium> andythenorth: axis in that case is a variable with either value AXIS_X (=0) or AXIS_Y (=1), so it's an easy way to get the right sprite number for a given axis without resorting to a (axis == AXIS_X) ? CROSSING_X : CROSSING_Y conditional statement
21:17:16 <Rubidium> as such the value of CROSSING_Y was/is never used in the code and thus never added to the list of constants for sprites
21:18:06 <Rubidium> likewise you generally only list once sprite number per vehicle; the other 7 are just that first sprite number plus an offse
21:19:02 <Hyronymus> or better: nothing happens
21:19:58 <Xaroth> Hyronymus: if you get another >>> line it can load
21:20:01 <Xaroth> else it'll give an error
21:20:11 <Alberth> Hyronymus: hmm, it loads the dummy class of course :(
21:20:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: no we didn't, you must be too busy
21:20:51 <andythenorth> I am patched out for today
21:21:00 <andythenorth> I can't learn hg q tonight
21:21:02 <Hyronymus> you lost me there Xaroth
21:21:05 <andythenorth> and I can't write any more code with q
21:21:10 <andythenorth> with / without /s
21:22:09 <Alberth> Hyronymus: normally >>> import X fails if the library is not installed correctly. In PIL, it fails, but hides the failure by loading the dummy class, so it succeeds, and gives you >>>
21:22:46 <Hyronymus> anything I can do with debugging
21:23:32 <Hyronymus> but reading between the lines: PIL isn't installed properly
21:24:01 <Alberth> that seems to be the case indeed
21:24:45 <Alberth> andythenorth: feel like giving some comment to my non-impressive png?
21:25:04 <Hyronymus> seems to be a very common problem with PIL
21:25:20 <Hyronymus> and yet nowhere can you find _imaging.dll
21:25:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: are there any user-defined groups?
21:26:19 <Alberth> what I call drag/drop is what the current group gui does
21:27:04 <Alberth> ie create a set of 'group' entries, where you drag vehicles to (although I now realize that won't work if you only have vehicle counts :p )
21:28:43 <Alberth> so you create a drag/drop giving a name like "lines", and then group entries "X-Y", "A-B-C"
21:28:58 <Alberth> then drag vehicles to one of those entries.
21:30:19 <Alberth> for now I am mostly busy to create this tree in the first place, and have it automagically maintained as vehicles change. I have not yet considered how to use the tree elements
21:30:58 <Alberth> oh, and the active concepts at the top-left are draggable too, you can change order (which causes the tree to be re-ordered)
21:31:13 <Hyronymus> ok, I found an interesting approach to the python/pil problem
21:31:43 <Alberth> random guess: you are installing Linux :p
21:31:48 <Hyronymus> it seems installing python for 64bit is a problem as PIL 'searches' for 32bit hooks
21:32:18 <Hyronymus> Alberth: if I could play Civ 5 on Linux I would :P
21:32:50 <Hyronymus> I'll try re-installing the stuff tomorrow
21:33:00 <Alberth> I never got further than civ 1 :)
21:33:12 <Hyronymus> civ 1 was great in its own right
21:33:21 <Hyronymus> played all the sequals sofar
21:33:52 <Hyronymus> (Open)TTD, Civ and Sim City are my all-time favourites
21:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Hyronymus: i can play civ5 on linux
21:37:42 <Hyronymus> tell me the solution tomorrow, Eddi|zuHause :)
21:37:59 <Hyronymus> enjoy work tomorrow if you're 'lucky' to start work again
21:38:01 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
21:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about "solution", but it worked after i created a clean prefix
21:41:19 *** Chillosophy has joined #openttd
21:43:49 * LordAro makes note of that... ;)
21:49:38 *** Chillosophy has joined #openttd
21:49:49 <dihedral> <SmatZ> for my birthday? :D <- that one :-)
21:50:37 <dihedral> what you gonna be up to tomorrow :-)
21:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of the time of year where you're just exhausted from celebrating, and need to relax or distract yourself ;)
21:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> feel yourself congratulated anyway, even if i forget in an hour ;)
21:56:19 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, Happy New Year 2012 - just in case i forget in a years time :-P
21:57:51 *** Chillosophy has joined #openttd
22:00:03 <andythenorth> no commits today
22:04:17 <andythenorth> "I commit therefore I am"
22:22:26 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
22:23:08 <LordAro> i _*really*_ hate the router i'm having to use...
22:25:52 <Terkhen> routers are known for hating everybody
22:27:14 <LordAro> yours doesn't cut out, seemly at random (normally a couple of hours between each), despite no problems showing, then having to unplug the router, and then wait for it to start up again -_-
22:27:16 *** supermop has joined #openttd
22:28:12 <dihedral> maybe it's not the router :-P
22:28:32 <dihedral> order another one. if it still does not work as expected, send it back and get hold of your isp
22:28:56 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
22:29:07 <LordAro> hopefully going to. i guess it could also be the network card in the laptop...
22:29:15 * Rubidium is still wondering why LordAro thinks FS#2290 is not needed
22:31:07 <LordAro> there are working controls in the jukebox, why have more?
22:31:32 <LordAro> ah, ok, so it spilts up the sound effects, but the rest isn't needed...
22:31:55 <Rubidium> because you like the steam engines' sound but don't like the level crossing?
22:32:07 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
22:32:30 <Rubidium> having said that the patch is badly done and I don't see any real reason for it, but it doesn't mean it ought to be closed
22:33:35 *** Linux_Time has joined #openttd
22:33:42 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
22:34:45 <Linux_Time> Hi, How can i transfer money to other companys in MUltiplayer games?
22:39:00 <Yexo> I have a set of files of varying sizes. I've determined that the last two bytes are a checksum. Given that the file format is quite old (at least pre 2000), what are the most likely algorithms used to compute the checksum?
22:39:35 <Yexo> I can generate as many files as I want and get a valid checksum for them, but I'd like to be able to write another program to compute the checksum
22:40:10 <Yexo> just don't have a real clue where to start
22:46:49 <dihedral> what up with qmsk.net?
23:00:55 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.0.5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only | HAPPY BIRTHDAY SmatZ :-) (dihedral)"
23:01:23 <dihedral> happy birthday SmatZ
23:03:16 <Terkhen> happy birthday SmatZ :)
23:03:39 <SmatZ> thank you dihedral, Yexo, Wolf01 and Terkhen - and others :-)
23:04:42 <dihedral> rather than everyone visiting SmatZ - i think SmatZ should visit everyone :-P
23:05:50 <supermop> i dont know who you are smatz, but it seems i should wish you a good birthday
23:06:35 <dihedral> someone has not been around long enough then :-D
23:09:41 <supermop> how many houses are there?
23:10:31 <SmatZ> house atreides, house ordos and house harkonnen
23:11:02 <supermop> well i think there were a few more that did not come up in the books
23:11:31 <SmatZ> well I only played the game :-x
23:12:18 <supermop> i kind of feel like starting to ddraw this town set i've had in the back of my mind for ages
23:15:13 <michi_cc> Yexo: Either a simple checksum set so the total file sum is zero or CRC-16 would be my guesses.
23:16:38 <planetmaker> oh... hello, happy Beerday, Smatz and also good night :-)
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23:17:16 <dihedral> good night planetmaker
23:17:19 <dihedral> good morning Timmaexx
23:17:41 <Timmaexx> I found a big bug in OpenTTD 1.1.0-beta2
23:18:10 <Ammler> we have seg faults in beta2 too
23:18:25 <Timmaexx> If I want to join a passworded server, i cannot click on the "join server" button nor type in a password
23:18:40 <Timmaexx> is this understandable and known?
23:20:07 <Timmaexx> I have to revert my report
23:20:18 <Timmaexx> I can do it now *crazy*
23:21:01 <SmatZ> Ammler: is it reproducible?
23:21:03 <Ammler> it is the 2nd crash today
23:22:04 <planetmaker> Ammler: look at crash.png
23:22:10 <SmatZ> Ammler: it would be good to compile with debug and run it under gdb to get better backtrace
23:22:11 <Ammler> oh, and the server is completely unpatched
23:22:13 <planetmaker> that's interesting
23:22:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you apply patches?
23:23:10 <Ammler> so how is it able to make a screen :-P
23:23:11 <planetmaker> hm... I *think* no
23:23:18 <planetmaker> but probably the keepblitter
23:23:30 <Ammler> oh well, I guess the srouces.list patch survives those
23:24:29 <planetmaker> hm... that's another crash.png, I think
23:25:03 <planetmaker> yes, sorry. it's 9 months old
23:25:10 <SmatZ> still, it doesnt look like that could cause a crash
23:26:00 <supermop> how many houses are in a town set?
23:26:28 <planetmaker> depends on how many you put in it
23:27:00 <supermop> i was thinking of starting with something like 20
23:27:00 <Ammler> but the crash.log is new
23:27:01 <planetmaker> it's like the question how many trains there are in a train set ;-)
23:27:07 <planetmaker> supermop: that's fine
23:27:16 <planetmaker> yes, crash.log and crash.sav are ok
23:27:17 <supermop> but was afraid it would feel too repetitive
23:27:30 <planetmaker> supermop: one has to start with something
23:27:36 <planetmaker> also it's no problem to use two town sets
23:27:39 <supermop> houses can use random CC for vareity?
23:27:41 <planetmaker> so you can start with an add-on
23:29:08 <supermop> can houses have custom foundations, or only stations
continue to next day ⏵
