IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-11-16
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00:00:09 * fjb should really stop using icq.
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01:12:19 <ccfreak2k> Are the two trainsets listed on the ECS vector page in the wiki the only known newgrfs to work with ecs?
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02:05:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> ccfreak2k: lots of trainsets work with ECS
02:42:21 * fjb wonders where Eddi|nichZuHause is.
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02:49:35 <fjb_mobile> Oh, this client is really basic.
03:34:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i'm not at home.
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05:17:37 <ccfreak2k> Part of me wants to make a newgrf with a max speed locomotive and cars.
05:17:43 <ccfreak2k> I'd call it Total Saturation.
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07:49:17 <Eddi|nichZuHause> good night-ish
07:50:30 <avdg> bleh, messing up repo's and fixing a stuff :p
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07:51:26 <Terkhen> heh, I thought that my patch would make sense in the morning but it still doesn't
07:51:54 <avdg> hg was my nightmare this night ;-)
07:52:13 <Terkhen> it can be quite stupid sometimes
07:53:03 <avdg> it committed a lot stuff I didn't like, because it wasn't git
07:54:20 <avdg> bweh, I will get used to it someday
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08:06:49 <planetmaker> <avdg> it committed a lot stuff I didn't like, because it wasn't git <-- that usually only happens if you use stupid things like addremove
08:07:23 <planetmaker> and it's usually a good idea to have a look at the diff you're going to commit
08:08:55 <avdg> must be more controllable now, it forced me to use an ide which had luckily support for hg
08:09:20 * planetmaker never felt compelled to any IDE because of <whatever> VCS
08:09:21 <avdg> I'm now concentrated on the huge number of bugs
08:09:31 <__ln___> that's so 90's... it's better to just commit everything and let others revert what's needed
08:09:47 <avdg> :p commitline ain't usefull with big patches
08:11:41 <avdg> next time I do such big patches again, its with git
08:12:05 <avdg> then I have more control and have to do less mass stuff at the same time
08:12:10 * planetmaker still sees to fail what the patch size has to do with the IDE or tools you use
08:12:28 <planetmaker> and what control you possibly could be missing
08:12:35 <avdg> better view on the fixes ;-)
08:12:48 <planetmaker> that's got little to do with hg, eh?
08:13:15 <planetmaker> avdg, that's not a matter of the VCS, but just the editor you use...
08:13:28 <avdg> but its certainly because I'm used the best with git
08:14:13 <planetmaker> you just don't use the right tools then ;-)
08:14:21 <avdg> netbeans ain't that bad ;-)
08:14:42 <avdg> that too, but thats hard to expect if I'm not used to hg
08:15:08 <planetmaker> avdg, it can be expected to at least look before saying "it's all bad" :-)
08:15:14 <planetmaker> or it's just... boring
08:16:18 <avdg> I'm just looking less at my back, done it too much in the past
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08:21:23 <planetmaker> without is soo much easier ;-)
08:21:53 <planetmaker> also much harder to find the newly incorporated backdoor...
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10:43:19 <AveiMil2> how'd your game go yesterday?
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10:45:45 <AveiMil2> Could you try a game where you only focus on aircrafts and perhaps adding road vehicles to shuttle passengers to airports?
10:46:22 <Samu> I have 3 aircraft in this game, they profit, but the maintenance costs is costly
10:47:20 <AveiMil2> they should be able to net you a good profit provided they get to run optimally (not hvaing to wait for passengers at airports)
10:48:11 <AveiMil2> The Sampson U52 also should be excellent for taking on subsidies offers
10:48:34 <AveiMil2> I just started a game here where I hvae 4 airplanes, two of my Coleman Cunt's are netting 18K £ a year
10:48:44 <Samu> that plane didn't profit for me on the same route than the other
10:49:00 <Samu> and I had no money for the 60 passengers one
10:49:02 <AveiMil2> Sampson U52 is probably better for shorter routes
10:49:37 <Samu> just built a route with buses
10:50:09 <Samu> the ship with a lot of cargo
10:50:28 <Samu> makes it have an impact on performance
10:50:34 <Samu> it doesn't profit in some years
10:50:49 <Samu> shouldn't have that much cargo
10:51:16 <AveiMil2> Remember I was able to build quite an economy with pure ships and road vehicles
10:51:37 <AveiMil2> You should always use "full load any cargo" with ships
10:51:56 <Samu> I still can't manage to get it beyound that
10:52:09 <AveiMil2> and if you can proxy cargo from 2 industries down to 1 dock
10:52:16 <AveiMil2> your cargo ships start to become real effective
10:52:21 <AveiMil2> like 30K income a year
10:52:57 <AveiMil2> also, remember Oil is the new cargo price king
10:53:26 <AveiMil2> if you can find 2 oil wells, setup road vehicles to deliver to a dock and ship it to a refinery you'll be making a big profit until the oil wells run dry
10:54:04 <Samu> there's only 3 oil wells in this map
10:55:17 <Samu> but it's so costly to build routes now
10:56:29 <AveiMil2> yeah, have to build as cost effective as possible
10:56:45 <AveiMil2> livestock and grain is a huge money maker if you can deliver "on time"
10:56:58 <AveiMil2> but suffers a lot with slow delivery times
11:01:49 <Samu> just tried building a train route, it's really expensive
11:01:59 <Samu> 1800 for a piece of track
11:02:24 <Samu> yeah, had to clear farm land
11:03:03 <AveiMil2> yup, expensive to build over someones used land
11:04:45 <Samu> my opinion, you overdid it for trains
11:05:19 <AveiMil2> you have to put it into perspective when testing how much profit trais can make though
11:05:27 <AveiMil2> trains are the biggest money maker in the game
11:05:54 <AveiMil2> if you can't pull a good profit with good train routes then we'll hvae to adjust them
11:06:06 <Rubidium> my left hand thumb and pinky are the biggest money makers when I'm in the game
11:07:24 <Samu> oil reserves 40k per month, for a ship that carries 420k
11:07:24 <Rubidium> roughly 740 million pounds a game-day
11:07:43 <AveiMil2> because the industry has been left unused for a while
11:08:47 <Samu> I can place a rail track
11:09:57 <Samu> if the ships go down, I'm going bankrupt
11:11:28 * avdg wants killing submarines as feature request :d
11:13:09 <Rubidium> come with an interesting/feasible (nfo) spec for newdisasters
11:14:01 <Samu> I saw the submarine in one of the games
11:14:10 <Samu> it doesn't crash ships :(
11:21:49 <AveiMil2> ouch, airplane crashes hurt when you just bought a 200K new aircraft
11:23:27 <Samu> my buses profit more than the oil tankers
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11:24:08 <AveiMil2> the oil tanker setup
11:24:21 <Samu> goes from oil wells to refinery
11:24:22 <AveiMil2> like are you collecting oil from just 1 oil well with 1 tanker?
11:24:41 <Samu> ships goes from a town to another
11:24:43 <AveiMil2> with full load order?
11:24:53 <AveiMil2> and how long does it take to load?
11:25:08 <Samu> it was half a year at start
11:25:35 <AveiMil2> how much does it produce a month? 40K litres?
11:25:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21201 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Document: some GRFText methods/fields
11:25:49 <AveiMil2> that's why the oiltanker is doing poorly
11:26:00 <AveiMil2> but how much does a full load bring in in terms of income?
11:26:46 <AveiMil2> hmm, don't understand why a full load should give different income rates
11:26:58 <AveiMil2> unless it brokedown a lot more causing delivery time to be worse
11:27:17 <Samu> it stayed a long time loading, decreasing value of already loaded cargo
11:27:27 <AveiMil2> I was told that's not how it works
11:27:37 <AveiMil2> that it calculates delivery time from the moment the ship leaves dock
11:27:53 <AveiMil2> and not from the time the cargo is loaded
11:28:05 <AveiMil2> that means that each unit of cargo on the ship is priced differently
11:28:14 <AveiMil2> since cargo loaded at 5% is much older than cargo loaded at 95%
11:28:40 <AveiMil2> I was assured that it calculates the cargo delivery time from the time it leaves the dock however
11:28:57 <AveiMil2> so perhaps someone here can confirm/deny that please?
11:29:04 <Samu> ship 1 has negative of 4000
11:29:14 <Samu> so, it profited 17k last trip
11:30:13 <AveiMil2> 30K ain't bad in one delivery though, imagine if you could cut the loading time in a scenario to almost 0 and do 2 such trips a year
11:30:25 <AveiMil2> that's 50ish K profit
11:30:37 * planetmaker recalls having trains which do like 400.000 per delivery
11:30:53 <AveiMil2> planetmaker guess that's late game trains though?
11:31:15 <planetmaker> not very early ones, yes
11:31:16 <AveiMil2> unless you found 3 coal mines packed together :)
11:31:28 <planetmaker> but similar is possible with coal mines
11:31:42 <planetmaker> IIRC the 400000 wer Shinkansens.
11:31:50 <AveiMil2> the oil tanker carries 420.000 litres of oil
11:32:08 <AveiMil2> so that's a big load, the key is being able to fill them fast enough
11:32:34 <planetmaker> Japanese high-speed trains
11:32:57 <Samu> the most advanced country in the world
11:33:24 <AveiMil2> ah non default trains
11:33:47 <Samu> the other ship income was 12k
11:33:48 <planetmaker> The AsiaStar would have the same efficiency
11:34:13 <AveiMil2> that's good planetmaker, trains should be able to obtain good profits
11:34:28 <AveiMil2> but it should be expensive to lay down the infrastructure as well
11:34:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21202 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Codechange: allow strings with embedded '\0' in GRFText.
11:35:10 <Samu> does the maintenance price also increase 8 times more?
11:35:13 <planetmaker> easy to set terraforming costs to insane
11:35:43 <Samu> what is property maintenance?
11:35:44 <AveiMil2> maintnenace, i.e. running cost?
11:35:57 <AveiMil2> money you pay for airports etc IIRC
11:36:06 <planetmaker> Samu, the amount of money which will bancrupt a company w/o vehicles at some stage
11:36:30 <Samu> yes, but what is maintained
11:37:07 <AveiMil2> terraforming costs in PIGM are increased but not insane, it's not intended that you flatten entire landscape, you should use tunnels or birdges for that in general
11:37:23 <planetmaker> that's why I prefer insane ;-)
11:37:41 <AveiMil2> that's because in vanilla you have so much money though :)
11:37:41 <planetmaker> otherwise any somewhat reasonable player can flatten the map after 15 ingame years
11:37:55 <AveiMil2> in PIGM you can't afford even "reasonalbe" terraforming costs
11:38:16 <Rubidium> my thumb and pinky can!
11:38:34 <planetmaker> you like your thumb and pinky it seems :-P
11:38:40 <Samu> btw, TTD test game is year 2045 right now
11:38:49 <AveiMil2> try to flatten 20 tiles for clear a path for a railtrack, it'll run you about 200K £
11:39:02 <AveiMil2> money you won't have :)
11:39:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yeah; thumb on the alt, pinky on the 1 and money flows in pretty quickly
11:39:06 <Samu> raising a square costs 4k
11:39:28 <planetmaker> hehe @ Rubidium :-)
11:39:53 <Rubidium> becomes annoying with non-debug builds though
11:40:40 <planetmaker> Samu, are you trying to prove that OpenTTD runs 10% slower than TTD?
11:41:22 <planetmaker> why don't you start in 2049 then?
11:41:41 <Samu> can only start at 1950-1975
11:43:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21203 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: make the maximum plural count available to the rest of OpenTTD as well
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11:45:54 <Samu> passenger bus profits better than oil tanker ship
11:46:18 <planetmaker> it's even realistic!
11:46:48 <planetmaker> if an oil tanker travels as far as a metropolitan bus, it surely won't run profitable
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11:46:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
11:47:13 <planetmaker> and how the heck did I move #openttd to a separate window in xchat?
11:47:43 <__ln___> you dragged the tab out of the window
11:48:00 <planetmaker> with the keyboard only? Hardly
11:50:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21204 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Codechange: unify style of string code conversion
11:55:49 <Samu> so, there is certainly a decrease in cargo value due to long loading at the dock
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11:58:41 <AveiMil2> Are there limitations on airacraft and what kind of airports they can land at?
11:58:51 <AveiMil2> the FFP Dart keeps crashing when landing on a small airport
11:59:02 <planetmaker> there are large and small airplanes
11:59:16 <planetmaker> large airplanes have a high chance when landing on small airports
11:59:28 <planetmaker> *high chance to crash
11:59:49 <AveiMil2> ah, how do you know what an "large" aircraft is?
11:59:59 <AveiMil2> perhaps this should be noted as a tooltip or something
12:00:24 <Samu> make large aircraft different color than small aircraft
12:00:43 <AveiMil2> I want to make a tooltip fo rthat
12:01:10 <AveiMil2> just a line that says Aircraft Size: Large
12:01:14 <AveiMil2> for instance on the airplane stats
12:01:20 <AveiMil2> can I do that with NewGRF?
12:05:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21205 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4207]: Under some conditions, group count would be wrong after moving train engines in the depot window.
12:18:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21206 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Document: that, and why string code 9A 02 (skip/ignore next colour code) is not implemented
12:21:14 <Samu> train is the new king of profit
12:21:52 <Samu> realistic train acceleration makes it easy
12:22:38 <AveiMil2> I was pretty certain trains would still pull in a lot of profit, perhaps too much even though infrastructure is expensive
12:22:51 <AveiMil2> how does realistic accl. model make it easy?
12:23:19 <Samu> this train weights 292t full loaded but has 300hp
12:23:48 <Samu> it reaches 64 km/h too fast
12:24:08 <Rubidium> what? It takes days before it reaches that speed!
12:24:19 <AveiMil2> how does it behave without realistic accel. model? I have not tested much the differences between the two
12:24:35 <AveiMil2> I just picked realsitic accel. because I was under the impression this is the most populare setting
12:24:38 <Samu> climbing hill at 57 km/h
12:24:54 <Samu> it would be 8 km/h with original
12:24:57 <Rubidium> maybe you're not using a new enough version
12:25:18 <AveiMil2> he's on 1.0.4, I hear realisitc accel. model is differentin RC2
12:25:39 * Rubidium wonders who fed you that BS
12:26:01 <Samu> ok, train is leaving station, it's 25th June
12:26:18 <AveiMil2> so it's not changed in 1.0.5 RC2?
12:26:39 <AveiMil2> someone here told me at least that realsitic accel. model had been improved/changed a lot after 1.0.4
12:26:59 <Terkhen> different versions of the same stable only include additional bugfixes, those changes are present in trunk and will be present in the next stable
12:27:21 <Rubidium> Terkhen: wrong wording alert!
12:27:37 <Rubidium> /stable/major (stable) release/
12:27:55 <Samu> november 2049 in TTD, saving in December
12:27:57 <Rubidium> hmm, that should be matched from the back :)
12:28:10 <AveiMil2> I hate having to relate to many different versions
12:28:16 <AveiMil2> which is why I'll stick with the stable
12:29:32 <AveiMil2> so 1.0.5 is not a new stable, it's just a new version of "this" stable?
12:29:48 <AveiMil2> what's the next stable and when is it due I'll ask
12:29:55 <Samu> Thursday, December 31, 2050, but the year was clearly 2049
12:30:16 <Samu> highscore chart says 2050
12:32:20 <AveiMil2> that's one of the first documents I skimmed over
12:33:25 <Rubidium> AveiMil2: 1.0.5 is a new stable, but it only contains bugfixes. Only major releases (those where the last number is reset to 0) introduce loads of features and the more intrusive bug fixes
12:35:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21207 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Codechange: replace the magic 0x00DE constant with something less magic
12:36:01 <Samu> I finished my test, was it worth it?
12:37:51 <SmatZ> Samu: can you post last save from 2049 somewhere?
12:38:50 <SmatZ> what was the original issue about?
12:39:44 <Samu> the issue was why OTTD ends in 2051 and not in 2050 like original
12:40:46 <SmatZ> maybe you can open a bugreport, so it is not forgotten :)
12:42:09 <Samu> OTTD isn't bugged, it's just not a round number
12:42:19 <Rubidium> but... in what way is OpenTTD's behaviour a bug?
12:42:52 <Rubidium> I guess changing some highscore string is enough
12:43:08 <SmatZ> Rubidium: supposing it should have similiar behaviour as TTD, it is a bug :)
12:43:46 <SmatZ> also it probably answers the question why the newspaper show saturday 31.12.2050
12:43:56 <SmatZ> because it was saturday 1.1.2050
12:46:24 <planetmaker> hm, do we need to fix OpenGFX then? :-)
12:47:12 <SmatZ> maybe some TTD versions end in 2050, and some in 2051?
12:47:12 <Rubidium> I'd just change the highscore thing to say "end of 2050" instead of 2051 :)
12:47:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21208 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_text.h): -Add: [NewGRF] Mapping information w.r.t. a translation's case and gender names
13:07:21 <Samu> it isn't worth it to increase oil ship capacity
13:07:32 <Samu> oil wells run dry too quickly
13:07:55 <Samu> now the other is gonna be sold too
13:08:03 <Samu> oil wells already bankrupt
13:08:08 <AveiMil2> what if you run two oil wells to 1 ship?
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13:08:55 <Samu> there's a new oil rig, got to get some money to buy ship
13:09:14 <Samu> but I still think that much capacity is not right
13:09:20 <AveiMil2> if the monthly produciton at the oil well you used was low
13:09:25 <AveiMil2> then I understand the ship doing poorly
13:09:49 <AveiMil2> maybe reduce capacity then
13:10:48 <AveiMil2> I'd like to see your save games
13:12:04 <AveiMil2> see how it works out with the oil rig, IIRC they have a higher monthly production off hte bat
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14:00:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21209 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Allow setting the gender of the current string or select the case of the next substring
14:38:26 <AveiMil2> How does the production change mechanics work for Oil Rigs?
14:38:46 <AveiMil2> Considering they have both Oil and passengers they produce.
14:38:58 <AveiMil2> Are they factored in seperatly or together?
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15:12:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r21210 /trunk/os/windows/installer/install.nsi:
15:12:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4231]: make sure text files use DOS EOL
15:12:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: shortcuts were not delete when uninstalling OpenTTD on Windows Vista/7
15:12:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add [FS#4231]: shortcuts to extra documentation files (docs and scripts subdir)
15:25:36 <AveiMil2> Is it easy to increase the Oil Rig's production via NewGRF?
15:26:45 <Yexo> no idea how hard it really is, I've never tried it
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16:41:25 <Eddi|nichZuHause> \o/ r21209 ;)
16:44:22 <fjb> 8791 commits until the next cake.
16:45:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> take one down and pass it around
16:45:39 <Eddi|nichZuHause> 8790 commits on the wall...
16:45:50 <Eddi|nichZuHause> err... that doesn't really make sense ;)
16:46:56 <fjb> Not really. What makes my wonder again where you spent the last night.
16:47:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> depends on your definition of night ;)
16:47:56 <fjb> That's the time when I'm awake.
16:48:23 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i was here, obviously.
16:58:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21211 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Allow specifying a "choice list" for cases and genders
17:07:54 <Eddi|nichZuHause> you should have told me about this before i handed in my diploma thesis :p
17:08:21 <__ln___> you should have delayed handing in your diploma thesis until i found out about that site
17:08:50 <Eddi|nichZuHause> that would probably have been better...
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17:29:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> have i ever told you how much i hate GUI programming?
17:31:30 <avdg> I bet a lot, I hate the implementation part of GUI by myself
17:32:07 <Eddi|nichZuHause> about this much:
17:32:20 <Eddi|nichZuHause> |<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:32:21 <Eddi|nichZuHause> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:32:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:32:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------...
17:33:08 <__ln___> using wxWidgets for it?
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17:35:35 <IchGuckLive> Hi from Germany second Day into OpenTTD
17:36:13 <IchGuckLive> is it posibal to do some settings that i can see the blocks in the Railroadtrrack?
17:36:44 <IchGuckLive> and how does it come that the train leafs the Depo and has a defekt
17:37:09 <Eddi|nichZuHause> it's random.
17:37:31 <glx> or the reliability is very low
17:37:45 <IchGuckLive> Do i have to do the Maitenence by my own ? is it not full equipt with cole and all the staff as it is in the Depo?
17:38:03 <Eddi|nichZuHause> maintenance is automatic.
17:38:15 <IchGuckLive> avdg: what is pbs
17:38:16 <glx> and reliability decrease with time
17:38:30 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but keep an eye on the reliability.
17:38:45 <avdg> path based signalisation, but if you don't know them, ignore it for now
17:38:52 <glx> so even with regular maintenance a train with 0% reliablity will break very often
17:38:57 <IchGuckLive> the bvus has -1200euro loset
17:39:23 <IchGuckLive> im losing alot of money :D :DD XD O.o
17:40:04 <Eddi|nichZuHause> you need to send the bus to bus stations, obviously
17:40:27 <__ln___> Eddi|nichZuHause: are you fighting with sizers or what's so bad about GUI programming?
17:41:03 <Eddi|nichZuHause> __ln___: i'm fighting with my own urge to not even try starting to fight with sizers and the like...
17:41:16 <IchGuckLive> Trains Head on Head at the signal since 4Jears !
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17:41:43 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but in general, a fixed sized dialog would probably fine for the prototype...
17:43:19 <glx> and last time I used wxwidgets XRC was "beta"
17:44:13 <IchGuckLive> it woudt be mutch easyer if i coudt se where the blocks are
17:44:39 <Eddi|nichZuHause> IchGuckLive: what do you think "blocks" are?
17:46:07 <IchGuckLive> the train is now cicling the block and brakes down at every signal
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17:50:56 <IchGuckLive> im in the Dessert ! is the dimond transport better for the money then water ?
17:51:25 <planetmaker> hm.... in dessert? I prefer either Mousse au chocolat or maybe also Tiramisu
17:51:40 <planetmaker> Though a nice fruit cocktail wouldn't hurt either
17:52:56 <planetmaker> but to answer the question: either add explicit depot orders and / or put up sufficient amount of depots on the route. And make sure the train is not past its lifetime and renew, if it is too old
17:53:35 <IchGuckLive> desert planetmaker
17:55:04 <IchGuckLive> is there a Time limit in the game or is it running forever ?
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18:13:38 <Samu> I need 'details' about openttd.cfg :p
18:14:01 <Samu> me and belugas have been discussing the windows installer and the save being a problem
18:14:45 <Samu> is there a special reason openttd.cfg is created relatively to save folder location being in the installdir?
18:15:19 <Alberth> yes, it allows you to have several openttds
18:16:04 <Samu> you mean multiple instances or multiple versions?
18:16:20 <Alberth> multiple versions usually
18:16:27 <planetmaker> but also both :-)
18:16:43 <AveiMil> you can run multiple instances off 1 install
18:17:13 <Samu> I was trying to suggest a change to how the game defines the default save folder
18:18:25 <Alberth> I have 5 stable openttds and 30 dev versions currently. dev versions normally share 1 cfg, but the stables cannot as they are not compatible with each other
18:18:31 <AveiMil> Why is there two prod_multiplier's?
18:18:35 <AveiMil> What are the differences?
18:18:48 <Alberth> one for the first output cargo, and one for the second output cargo
18:19:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> AveiMil: industries can produce two things
18:19:34 <Eddi|nichZuHause> like farms producing both grain and livestock
18:19:38 <planetmaker> [19:18] <Alberth> I have 5 stable openttds and 30 dev versions currently. dev versions normally share 1 cfg, but the stables cannot as they are not compatible with each other <-- why can't they?
18:19:42 * Alberth gives Eddi a few 't's
18:19:45 <planetmaker> I happily work with one cfg for all
18:19:45 <AveiMil> yeah of course, thanks
18:20:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Alberth: what?
18:20:35 <Alberth> should there not be a 't' before Z ?
18:21:10 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Alberth: not if you speak it outloud ;)
18:21:10 <planetmaker> Alberth: learnt proper German
18:21:32 <planetmaker> Eddi speaks funny dialects though ;-)
18:21:50 <Eddi|nichZuHause> what was that site with the language atlas again?
18:22:05 <Eddi|nichZuHause> they had a survey about how you speak "nicht" as well ;)
18:22:19 <Eddi|nichZuHause> and seriously nobody speaks that "t" ;)
18:22:56 <planetmaker> Same thing viewed from here ;-)
18:23:36 <Alberth> planetmaker: yes you can share cfgs, but then you constantly need to re-setup your config file after playing with an older versions
18:23:44 <planetmaker> Do you see where the dark green dots are? That's where I grew up ;-)
18:24:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> interestingly, there's also a dark green spot around my place :p
18:24:45 <planetmaker> Alberth: openttd just ignores unknown config options. Afaik.
18:25:19 <Alberth> and when it exits, it does not write them?
18:25:58 <Eddi|nichZuHause> my experience is that it tends to remove unknown sections
18:26:09 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but i can't check that right now
18:26:17 <Samu> is it only because of the save folder? I'm really sad, belugas nearly made my day
18:26:48 <planetmaker> Alberth: at least that's by what I've been assuming so far and I think it works
18:27:29 <planetmaker> but long since I actually tested it or looked into in in detail
18:27:45 <Alberth> Samu: I don't know about save folders, but imo you should be able to have old and new versions installed next to each other independently if you like.
18:27:51 <planetmaker> you can in any case add complete sections and they won't get overwritten
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18:29:24 <Samu> alberth, belugas made a windows installer to allow the option to copy save games and scenarios, but the save folder ruins it all, because openttd.cfg is created at the installdir this way
18:30:13 <Belugas> correction: glx made it, based on a patch i sent him...
18:32:17 <Alberth> Hai Belugas, from a quite messed-up machine
18:32:41 <Alberth> Sunday I tried upgrading. It worked, except no network :p
18:32:42 <Belugas> you still have all your letters, Alberth :) hello!
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18:33:06 <Alberth> so I downgraded again, but the updater broke the installation
18:33:30 <Alberth> looks like I have to try again in the near future :)
18:33:56 <Samu> oops, this is too confusing
18:34:06 <planetmaker> Alberth: you again proof that it's always a good idea to just buy a new HDD when installing a new system ;-)
18:34:19 <Samu> i have openttd.cfg at mydocuments, not at installdir
18:34:30 <Alberth> every 6 months? ieks :)
18:35:15 <Alberth> Samu: you can have configs at several places, please read the (do-not)readme.txt for details
18:35:23 <planetmaker> Alberth: then two which you use alternatingly
18:35:40 <planetmaker> basically two system partitions. One current, one old / new
18:35:54 <planetmaker> so you'll always have a running system, however bad your update goes
18:36:12 <Alberth> except for the bootloader :p
18:36:39 <planetmaker> just don't change the path to the kernel
18:37:02 <Samu> alberth, I did this test: made a fresh install of openttd, with one difference, there was a save folder on the to-be installed path
18:37:39 <Samu> openttd.cfg still goes to mydocuments folder
18:38:03 <Samu> only the default save folder needs change now
18:38:04 <Alberth> Samu: sorry, I don't know what openttd does exactly, it is quite complicated, and completely explained in the readme.txt file afaik.
18:38:29 <Alberth> not to mention I don't have a Windows system
18:39:05 <Alberth> unless you count my Pentium with Win95 :)
18:39:47 <Alberth> at a whopping 120MHz iirc :D
18:40:14 <Samu> glx nearly got it working
18:41:00 <glx> - Savegames will be relative to the config file only if there is no save/
18:41:00 <glx> directory in paths with higher priority than the config file path, but
18:41:00 <glx> autosaves and screenshots will always be relative to the config file.
18:41:31 <b_jonas> isn't there an option to just set the paths of the savegames?
18:41:41 <b_jonas> an option in the config file I mean
18:42:02 <Samu> I read that and it sucks; :)
18:42:37 <Alberth> Samu: make a soft-link to the real directory (assuming you want your save games put together?) ?
18:43:13 <AveiMil> I had a question earlier about industries that produce 2 cargo types and how that relates to the game mechanics produciton change?
18:43:41 <Alberth> right. Seriously, how can you ever do something useful at such a system? :p
18:43:45 <Ammler> if autosaves are always relative to the config file, saves will become too
18:44:01 <Ammler> since autosaves are in save
18:44:08 <Ammler> or do I confuse something there
18:44:11 <Samu> ok, apparently openttd looks for several folders at once and makes a list of files out of them
18:44:33 <Samu> so, the only problem is how the game sets the default save folder
18:44:38 <Alberth> Ammler: I think you don't
18:45:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21212 /trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt:
18:45:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
18:45:21 <Samu> I see save games from <installdir>\save, <mydocuments>\save
18:45:22 <Ammler> well, you can disable autosaves
18:45:58 <Samu> the default save folder that the game defines itself on fresh install
18:46:05 <Alberth> Samu: trying to explain what the readme tells us?
18:46:50 <Samu> I can't explain myself better at this, my poor english
18:47:19 <Alberth> perhaps explain what you want rather than what it does?
18:48:21 <Samu> what I want is openttd to switch default save folder from <installdir>\save to <mydocuments>\save on fresh installation
18:48:36 <Ammler> that is already the case
18:48:49 <Samu> it is, only if there's no save folder in installdir
18:49:15 <Ammler> please read again the readme :-)
18:49:36 <Samu> I read it, and it's misleading
18:50:12 <Ammler> but there is no save folder in a fresh install
18:50:36 <Samu> yes, but I did it as a test, to help belugas/glx
18:50:46 <Ammler> oh yes, they need help
18:50:47 <Belugas> so doing that, we would have to create one
18:51:04 <Belugas> tht would f*** things up
18:51:22 <Samu> I still don't get how things get screwed
18:51:30 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by glx :: r12269 trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi (2008-02-26 15:31:48 UTC)
18:51:31 <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix: [Win32] don't create save dir on install
18:51:31 <Belugas> #i want to f*** you lick an animal
18:51:39 <Ammler> why wuld you create a save folder there, but not save saves there then?
18:52:03 <Belugas> to import them from TTD cd, ammler
18:52:06 <Samu> the saves would be those from TTD CD, which is what the patch is all about
18:52:30 <glx> if there are multiple users, how can the installer create the right save dir if it's not in install dir ?
18:52:53 <glx> and if it's install dir, users with limited rights won't be able to save
18:53:11 <Samu> that's the default save dir I'm talking about that needs change
18:53:49 <glx> and that's not easy to do
18:53:51 <Belugas> in other words, forcing a default directory and not letting openttdt creates its own, based on current system
18:54:11 <Belugas> ONLY if you import saves from TTD cd
18:54:41 <Samu> what is the personal directory?
18:55:19 <glx> Windows: C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Shared Documents\OpenTTD (2000, XP)
18:55:19 <glx> C:\Users\Public\Documents\OpenTTD (Vista, 7)
18:56:44 <Samu> I don't get it how it's not possible
18:57:22 <Alberth> Samu: apparently something with several users at a single machine, and access rights
18:57:49 <Samu> I can't test that, sorry :(
18:58:11 <Alberth> (don't tell me MS didn't copy that correctly from the unices as well :)
18:58:51 <Samu> how do I run XP as a shared documents thing?
18:59:04 <Alberth> you are asking me? :D
18:59:39 <Samu> if it's not possible then I blame it on windows vista, 7
18:59:44 <Samu> because on XP it's possible
18:59:56 <Samu> at least on <mydocuments>
19:00:18 <Samu> <shared documents> I'm not totally sure
19:00:45 <Alberth> Samu: there is an easy way out, install Linux :p
19:02:34 <Belugas> as most of us, i'm sure your XP only has one user. you can tweek it for more than one account
19:05:24 <Alberth> Group GUI patches seem to be popular :)
19:09:34 <Samu> ok, without a save folder, what does openttd do?
19:10:11 <Samu> how does openttd decides what will be default save folder?
19:10:25 <Samu> heh, don't tell me to read the readme.txt
19:10:37 <Rubidium> don't read readme.txt
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19:11:45 <Rubidium> then take an aspirin and go to bed :)
19:11:57 <Rubidium> lights out, computer screen off
19:12:08 <Terkhen> perhaps "readme" is not imperative enough
19:12:31 <Terkhen> maybe we should rename it to "readme_or_else.txt"
19:12:31 <Prof_Frink> thoushaltreadme.txt
19:13:08 <Prof_Frink> Or have an oldschool copy-protection type screen.
19:13:32 <Prof_Frink> "Please enter word 7 from paragraph 14, line 8 of the readme"
19:14:50 <planetmaker> Prof_Frink: it'd then rather be called user-awareneess-test-screen or so ;-)
19:14:50 <AveiMil> Help me understand why production multipliers (13/14 column) are seemingly incorrect :P
19:15:57 <AveiMil> When I set prod_multiplier_1: 2; prod_multiplier_2: 5; the in-game production for oil rigs of passengers and oil are redicilously low
19:15:59 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: nah, word one from line 565 (of trunk's readme)
19:16:17 <AveiMil> So I don't see how those default values can be correct
19:18:09 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: You'd have to disable copypaste.
19:18:52 <Rubidium> does that actually work?
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19:23:42 <Aali> is there something wrong with bananas?
19:24:17 <Aali> trying to get missing grfs for an older savegame, it finds the grfs but when I click download it never gets past "Requesting files..."
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19:24:47 <Aali> Belugas: you're not supposed to eat the peel :S
19:25:06 <Belugas> gaaa.. normal that i'm sick then
19:25:12 <Rubidium> Aali: what mirror do you end when you go to binaries.openttd.org ?
19:25:15 * Belugas throws up on boss's shoes
19:25:35 <AveiMil> Belugas, thanks man, jeez I stare my self blind
19:26:48 <Rubidium> that seems to be still up
19:27:01 <Aali> the grfs in question are FIRS 0.4 and HEQS 0.7.1
19:27:09 <Rubidium> are you by any chance running a proxy?
19:27:48 <Aali> I can download grfs just fine from the grf settings menu
19:27:51 <Rubidium> (openttd uses http to get and request the files)
19:28:09 <Aali> its just the older versions via older savegame that doesn't work
19:28:11 <Rubidium> so it might have been some temporary internet glitch
19:28:15 <Belugas> [14:16] <AveiMil> So I don't see how those default values can be correct <-- doubt yourself, before doubting THE SPECS!
19:28:50 <Aali> Rubidium: nope the problem persists
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19:30:06 <AveiMil> Is there a special reason oil rigs are set to have no chance of generating at map creation?
19:30:13 <AveiMil> ahhh right, the IND_FLAG_BUILT_ONLY_AFTER_1960 flag is ignored at map creation
19:30:59 <Alberth> I'd guess because you are supposed to switch from oil wells to oil rigs in the game
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19:31:44 <Rubidium> Aali: did you try four times?
19:31:51 <Samu> a folder OpenTTD is created
19:32:04 <Samu> inside it, there's content_download, save and scenario
19:32:23 <Aali> Rubidium: I did, maybe 5
19:32:28 <Samu> on glx install, there will be 2 save folders
19:32:39 <AveiMil> Alberth, yeah but if the flag was not ignored you could start at 1960 and have oil rigs be present and start at 1950 and have them not be present :)
19:34:07 <Alberth> don't know whether you could change the start year in the original game :(
19:35:20 <andythenorth> anything interesting?
19:35:23 <Rubidium> Aali: could you retry?
19:35:36 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
19:37:22 <andythenorth> Rubidium: resp. the FIRS property bug...I'll look for var 7C use in tile chains. If I find it, it's probably a mistake by me. I assume it's safe to say that whatever it's supposed to be doing won't be working?
19:39:59 <Belugas> [14:30] <AveiMil> ahhh right, the IND_FLAG_BUILT_ONLY_AFTER_1960 flag is ignored at map creation <-- attempt to mimic realism.
19:40:23 <Belugas> [14:30] <AveiMil> that's kind of silly <-- yup, my conclusion to realism request
19:40:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I think it's a industry tile chain that's linked into an industry chain for some reason
19:41:23 <Rubidium> Aali: got a savegame for me to test downloading that specific file?
19:41:41 <AveiMil> Belugas, how is that an attempt to mimic realism?
19:41:59 <andythenorth> Rubidium: it's probably a mistake :P
19:44:32 <Rubidium> Aali: does it by a chance work now?
19:44:56 <Belugas> to mimic evolution of methods of extraction
19:45:00 <Samu> hey, the same goes to scenarios
19:46:41 <Rubidium> Aali: must say that this bug is statistically "late" to show :)
19:47:46 <AveiMil> Belugas, that makes no sense, you have realism on your brain :)
19:48:16 <Belugas> AveiMil, it's not me who implemented those numbers. but that's the reality of these numbers.
19:48:32 <Belugas> it is supopsed to show a shift of method of extraction
19:48:46 <Belugas> oil wells were popular for a very long time
19:48:55 <Belugas> oil rigs are kinda new on the market
19:49:13 <Belugas> so it's a bit like the introduciton of diesel trains over coil
19:49:20 <AveiMil> it's not what I "complained" about
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19:50:04 <Belugas> and hear me well, i'm not against realism. I'm against pushing a feature request with the "Makes it more realistic" tag on it
19:50:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21213 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/tcp.cpp: [msu] -Fix: content server failing when the file's size % (SIZE_MTU - "header size") == 0
19:50:30 <Eddi|nichZuHause> gnah, wireless is rubbish...
19:50:36 <AveiMil> right and what I was talking about had nothing to do with realism at all
19:50:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> half an hour without internet!
19:51:31 <Belugas> i know, AveiMil, i just told yu why the "intro date" of the rig is as such :)
19:51:44 <Belugas> and answered "it's silly" ;)
19:51:46 <Eddi|nichZuHause> you have like a 1 in 1500 chance to hit that bug :p
19:51:49 <AveiMil> I never asked that but oK :)
19:52:08 <Belugas> [14:30] <AveiMil> Is there a special reason oil rigs are set to have no chance of generating at map creation?
19:52:08 <Belugas> [14:30] <AveiMil> ahhh right, the IND_FLAG_BUILT_ONLY_AFTER_1960 flag is ignored at map creation
19:52:08 <Belugas> [14:30] <AveiMil> that's kind of silly
19:52:15 <Rubidium> and there are 861 files in the list
19:52:36 <Rubidium> (instead of the 1200+ I thought it had)
19:52:37 <b_jonas> I'm now connecting two distant seas with locks and canals, not because it's profitable, but because I'd like to see how it works
19:52:40 <AveiMil> What I meant was when you set starting date to 1960 and generate the map, why it would not generate oil rigs as well.
19:52:46 <b_jonas> do locks slow ships down?
19:52:47 <AveiMil> Not why they were not generated at 1950.
19:52:56 * frosch123 wonders about "arctic remove snow" grf...
19:53:30 <b_jonas> frosch123: how would that work? how'd you know which towns to bring food to?
19:53:39 <Alberth> frosch123: to play the south-pole scenario without getting snow in the way for farms?
19:53:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> does that change the snow line to 255 or replace snow tiles with different graphics?
19:53:57 <frosch123> yeah, might be a global warming grf :)
19:54:09 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: the descriptions says the latter
19:57:59 * andythenorth begins a tiresome adventure with debug tools :P
19:58:26 <b_jonas> would it also make the whole tropical terrain a desert?
19:58:38 <andythenorth> Rubidium: is this FIRS issue isolated to a specific rev of FIRS? Or np if you don't know
19:58:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "... Since the snow level is 1, there's no farms about, nor will there ever be, and thus no way of increasing town size. ..." <-- that's incorrect
19:59:06 <Eddi|nichZuHause> apparently, towns grow despite lack of food, if you fund new buildings
19:59:10 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I don't know
19:59:44 <Alberth> Eddi|nichZuHause: I only copied what the scenario blurb said :)
19:59:45 <andythenorth> now I have to go look inside OS X's stupid / brilliant package structure for ottd binary
19:59:56 <andythenorth> and learn how to start with debug level = n
19:59:57 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: looks like it just replaces the snowy tiles with the normal arctic ones (from default graphics)
20:00:09 <frosch123> so, i guess someone did not like snow, but still wanted food and forests :)
20:00:34 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 1000 seems to work okay
20:01:00 <frosch123> kind of anti-alpine :p
20:01:04 <andythenorth> Rubidium: that helps
20:01:06 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I'll do some bisecting
20:01:12 <andythenorth> means it's added within the last 500 revs :P
20:01:31 <andythenorth> maybe I should ticket that ^
20:04:18 <Ammler> today lego doesn't look very modular anymore
20:04:30 <andythenorth> Ammler: I am looking at some pretty modular bricks :P
20:04:50 <andythenorth> they went a bit wrong about 10 years ago, then they fixed it all again about 5 years ago
20:05:24 <Rubidium> andythenorth: hg bisect tells me r1106
20:05:41 <Ammler> the car looks like 1-2 bricks
20:06:47 <andythenorth> Ammler: the blue one? I just built it, it's about 42
20:06:56 <andythenorth> + wheels, minifigs + stickers
20:07:02 <Rubidium> Ammler: it has 6 to 12 pieces, or at least that's what the box says :)
20:07:28 <Rubidium> hmm, or actually... it's a puzzle
20:07:39 <Rubidium> didn't know Lego made those
20:08:02 * andythenorth should get paid by Lego for advertising
20:09:02 <andythenorth> 1106: Feature: allow building Forest on steep slopes
20:09:54 * Alberth wonders how forests on steep slopes are related to lego :)
20:10:13 <Ammler> andythenorth: oh, it as also parts of lego technics in there ;-)
20:10:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: FIRS bugs are preventing me building Lego?
20:10:30 <Samu> suggestion to reduce the number of "Player" name based players
20:10:46 <Alberth> andythenorth: bad FIRS!
20:10:50 <b_jonas> the locks don't seem to slow down my hovercraft at all
20:11:19 <Samu> upon clicking multiplayer for the first time, show the input Manager Name window, before going to the multiplayer game list
20:11:36 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: there only about one darg violet one, isn't there?
20:11:38 <AveiMil> Is there any way to make the "Profit this year:" text on the vehicle summary lists larger?
20:12:05 <Eddi|nichZuHause> frosch123: i would say the dark pink word.
20:12:07 <Ammler> Eddi|nichZuHause: there is a yellow dot at my home, which is actually true :-)
20:12:16 <Rubidium> frosch123: I'd say the dot west of the top of "Dresden" is violet as well
20:12:38 <Ammler> and no, I don't see violette
20:12:41 <Belugas> Eddi|nichZuHause, not with my current eyes sight ;)
20:12:56 <frosch123> oh, for the small dots... no for them i cannot distinguish it
20:12:58 <Rubidium> but from there towards Hannover there are a few that can be both
20:13:23 <frosch123> i thought the small dots are something else
20:13:25 <Alberth> AveiMil you can set your own font
20:13:48 <Eddi|nichZuHause> frosch123: apparently the small dots are "minority" usages
20:14:24 <frosch123> well, but from the big dots, there is only one dark pink right of dresden
20:14:28 <Eddi|nichZuHause> and i think the small dot west of the word "Dresden" is dark pink. that's about where i am. the rest seem to be dark blue
20:14:44 <Samu> are you talking about hovercraft colors?
20:15:23 <Samu> oops, it's Hannover, not Hovercraft
20:15:59 <Samu> Hovercraft is always red no matter which color I set
20:17:33 <Eddi|nichZuHause> what i find weird is that the "big" dark pink spot and the (supposed) small dark pink spot is so far apart
20:18:36 <AveiMil> Alberth, where do I set my own font?
20:19:07 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: i am more suprised that there are areas which "officially" use ratzefummel
20:19:16 <Alberth> AveiMil: afaik, I added a FAQ entry for that
20:19:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|nichZuHause: weren't Hungarian and Finnish related languages? Those a quite far apart as well
20:20:33 <b_jonas> wow, ships have a really low running cost
20:20:42 <b_jonas> much cheaper than trains
20:21:45 * Rubidium thought Zoll had something to do with the border
20:24:28 <Samu> who's the guy in charge for opengfx?
20:25:27 <Ammler> hmm, Doppelmeter or Meter is quite fluent, those dots in ch are wrong
20:26:02 <Samu> glx, the hovercraft has a very thin color line to define its owner
20:26:28 <glx> I'm not one of the maintainers
20:27:16 <AveiMil> ah, wow that was mmmuuuccch better with Verdana small font
20:27:39 <b_jonas> why are my ships travelling in such a strange way with many unnecessary turns on the sea?
20:27:45 <Samu> IE warning: safe and non-safe content in this website
20:28:12 <Alberth> does safe content actually exist at the Internet?
20:28:43 <andythenorth> is there a way to scroll the openttd console?
20:28:59 <Alberth> andythenorth: page up/down, I think
20:29:45 <Samu> must have been the Donate thingie on that page
20:29:51 <b_jonas> andythenorth: typing 'help' in the console tells you how to scroll
20:30:43 <glx> <b_jonas> why are my ships travelling in such a strange way with many unnecessary turns on the sea? <-- not enough buoys
20:31:31 <b_jonas> glx: I don't think so.
20:32:33 <Samu> YAPF is better, but it says (not recommended)
20:32:56 <glx> there's no good pathfinder for ships
20:33:12 <Samu> NPF is way slower than YAPF, about 20 times slower
20:33:21 <glx> and it's better to use buoys to ease pathfinder work anyway
20:34:14 <Samu> which one is faster for trains and road vehicles?
20:34:21 <Samu> faster = less load on CPU
20:34:37 <Terkhen> why were NPF and YAPF problematic for ships?
20:34:42 <b_jonas> I'll try adding a buoy
20:34:54 <Terkhen> only for performance reasons?
20:34:55 <b_jonas> I mean one more to the part of the path that doesn't work
20:35:04 <Alberth> flat oceans of equally long paths
20:35:46 <glx> accurate pathfinder in "free" space is expensive
20:35:50 <Samu> but NPF was way slower on my comp, not YAPF. YAPF was only slightly slower than the original
20:36:09 <Terkhen> yes, it does not sound like a good scenario for A*
20:36:56 <Alberth> Samu: that's probably why YAPF exists
20:37:31 <b_jonas> maybe the captain drank too much rhum
20:37:52 <Samu> advanced settings warns me not to use YAPF in red letters
20:38:53 <AveiMil> On the purcahse aircraft page where you can see the Aircraft stats I want to add a line for each aircraft that says something like "Recommended Airport Size: City"
20:38:54 <Alberth> b_jonas: optimal use of the currents
20:39:06 <AveiMil> is this possible with NewGRF and is there any examples of how to?
20:39:47 <b_jonas> AveiMil: just make that part of the name of the plane (in parens)
20:40:37 <Terkhen> AveiMil2: any kind of airport for aircrafts of "Helicopter" or "Small" type, an airport that is not small for aircrafts of the "Large" type
20:42:58 * andythenorth now has unhandled industry tile vars 67 and A7
20:43:01 <andythenorth> this is interesting
20:46:34 <andythenorth> well I know what industry causes
20:50:05 <Samu> question, does the game autodetects which currency is in effect where I'm located?
20:51:10 <AveiMil> Terkhen, right, the default game does not show that stat.
20:51:26 <AveiMil> it it available in nightly or somthing?
20:51:54 <Samu> aveimil, where are you from?
20:52:04 <AveiMil> alright, then I won't worry about it
20:52:20 <AveiMil> perhaps though it should not be possible to purchase Large aircraft from small airports?
20:52:32 <Samu> but the game sets your language to your country?
20:52:56 <Belugas> oops... dynamic SQL is not permissive on typos, even if it "compiles"
20:53:24 <Terkhen> IIRC some large aircraft are available before you can build the first big airport
20:53:27 <AveiMil> language is defaulted to Norwegian
20:53:32 <AveiMil> but currency is pounds I think
20:53:39 <AveiMil> either way I promptly change it to English
20:54:17 <Samu> i thought currency was also automated
20:54:37 <AveiMil> Terkhen, hmm, not so good though since they crash like within a year
20:55:04 <Terkhen> so? it's the player decision if he wants to pay that "extra cost" or not
20:55:14 <AveiMil> that's not much of a decision
20:55:22 <AveiMil> "Click here to throw your money away"
20:55:53 <AveiMil> in fact it probably just pisses users off until they figure it out
20:56:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21214 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: Display mail capacity when refitting an aircraft to passengers.
20:57:25 <Terkhen> I agree that what happens should be more clear, but I'm not a big fan of removing things just because they imply a decision
20:58:13 <AveiMil> In general me either and making it clear will certainly help. But what useful situations are there where building a large aircraft at a small airport is desired
20:58:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|nichZuHause: I should have know that 15 years ago...
20:58:28 <AveiMil> Samu, I installed a new copy of OpenTTD 1.0.4 here on a virtual machine, currency is not automated
20:58:32 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I've isolated that issue :P
20:58:33 <AveiMil> pounds is set to default
20:58:36 <andythenorth> don't know the fix yet
20:58:39 <AveiMil> (which is great imho)
20:59:03 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Rubidium: how do you mean?
20:59:29 <Rubidium> I never new the right gender during German class
21:00:05 <Rubidium> so whenever I had to finish the "d__ Arbeiter__ ..." I made it plural where possible
21:00:20 <Samu> can the game automate currency on first run?
21:00:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Rubidium: that's to be expected when you have simplified genders in your mother language
21:00:26 <Terkhen> AveiMil: none for me, but I would be willing to bet that someone would protest if this change was made
21:00:37 <Samu> can you make the game automate currency on first run?
21:00:46 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Samu: it should do that
21:00:57 <Rubidium> "yes, it's grammatically correct, but the sentence makes no sense"
21:01:03 <Rubidium> as it was a grammar test I got the points
21:01:16 <Rubidium> now having a word for which *all* genders are correct would've been really nice
21:01:39 <Samu> does it do it to only non-euro countries?
21:02:06 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Rubidium: there are a few words where two genders are correct. like "Der Virus" and "Das Virus"
21:02:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21215 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: store the plural form in the plural (choice) lists
21:02:39 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (where you would use "das" if you want to sound more educated ;))
21:03:09 * Rubidium would've used "Die Viri" :)
21:03:24 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Rubidium: "Viren" usually ;)
21:03:40 <AveiMil> I don't even like that there is different currencies available in the game
21:03:51 <AveiMil> with 1 currency everyone has a comperable value
21:03:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21216 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Allow specifying a "choice list" for plurals
21:04:17 <Samu> I like the currency idea
21:04:54 <Eddi|nichZuHause> AveiMil: yes, i don't like that there are different languages available in the world. with one language everyone would have comparable communiation.
21:05:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (traditionally, there are even more currencies than languages)
21:05:30 <Samu> but the games doesn't automate it for me
21:05:58 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Samu: maybe your locale is wrong/strange/other?
21:06:29 <Samu> regional settings on windows have it already defined
21:08:18 <Samu> but the game sets to pound
21:08:37 <Samu> portuguese (portugal) keyboard
21:10:14 <AveiMil> Eddi|nichZuHause, haha, well currencies are easy to understand cross-languages
21:10:36 <AveiMil> in fact the currency could be completely made up
21:10:51 <AveiMil> I don't care what it's called
21:11:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21217 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Add: Plural codes to some english strings.
21:12:05 <Samu> Windows XP Pro 32-bit PTPT
21:12:49 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Samu: i really don't know about the internals here...
21:14:15 <Samu> I found a translation error, in the signal listing
21:14:44 <Samu> if there is no sign placed on the map, listing signs says <none>
21:15:10 <Samu> in portuguese it should read <nenhum> not <nenhuma>
21:15:33 <Samu> i assume it was taken from stations list
21:15:44 <Samu> stations in portuguese is a female word
21:17:51 <Eddi|nichZuHause> sounds like a use for cases
21:18:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does FIRS build fail for you?
21:18:17 <andythenorth> and also...does grfcodec build fail for you?
21:18:21 <andythenorth> (tip in both cases)
21:20:10 <frosch123> hmm, stationlist and signlist use the same string here. so nothnig the translator can fix. other lists seem to have their own "- none -"
21:22:58 <andythenorth> can anyone build FIRS tip?
21:23:27 <andythenorth> better question. Can anyone build grfcodec tip?
21:28:02 <Rubidium> andythenorth: the CF can
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21:33:23 <Terkhen> andythenorth: my version of GRFCodec (r788) can build the latest revision of FIRS
21:33:49 <andythenorth> I did a clean checkout and it builds
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22:19:23 <Ammler> that is still like "player"
22:21:05 <Samu> that's if the user doesn't put any name at all
22:21:06 <Ammler> ah, the Manager Name is also asked :-)
22:21:34 <Samu> I should have deleted the name and leave it empty
22:21:35 <Ammler> why is there need to differ between Manager and Player name?
22:22:19 <Eddi|nichZuHause> man the internet here is shitty...
22:23:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> manager name is a company property, and player name is a client property?
22:23:29 <Eddi|nichZuHause> yes, i should really do that.
22:24:22 <Samu> well, just do something about Player, Player #1, Player #2
22:24:49 <Samu> my idea was to use the random generated names if a user doesn't add any name at all
22:25:08 <Ammler> I would rather force the user to give a name
22:25:28 <Rubidium> but what if I want to be named Player?
22:25:33 <Ammler> or stay with player, else you alias just the players
22:26:20 <Ammler> Rubidium: if the field is empty per default, then you can still type "Player" in there
22:26:54 <Eddi|nichZuHause> so... anyone care to explain me why i have set a text widget to wxTE_PROCESS_ENTER, and added a handler function for wxEVT_TEXT_ENTER, this function doesn't seem to be called when entering text and hitting Enter?
22:26:55 <Rubidium> but in million openttd.cfg it's already Player
22:27:29 <Samu> and if you leave it empty and click ok, it generates a name for you, similar to how manager names are generated
22:27:30 <Ammler> hmm, you need to join a server to get Player there now, don't you?
22:27:59 <Ammler> you think, there were already a million online players?
22:28:30 <Rubidium> you don't need to join a server to get "Player" in openttd.cfg
22:28:43 <Ammler> the field is empty per default
22:29:12 <Ammler> we speak about client_name, don't we?
22:29:13 <frosch123> Eddi|nichZuHause: remove the wxTE_PROCESS_ENTER? it sounds more like multiline text
22:29:29 <frosch123> than default action
22:30:17 <Rubidium> Ammler: hmm... I seem to remember that it was set in the settings table (maybe long ago?)
22:30:22 <__ln___> Eddi|nichZuHause: common reasons for event handlers not working: #1: the handler is set from some other ID than what's intended; #2: a parent control catches the event before it reaches your control.
22:31:06 <Ammler> > grep client_name default.cfg
22:31:18 <glx> Eddi|nichZuHause: whats the object ?
22:31:24 <Ammler> just run openttd 1.0.4 with -c default.cfg
22:32:28 <Ammler> the missing client_name is one of the most ap+ newbie faults
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22:53:45 <Samu> I know I've asked this before, but where do I place net_frame_freq 10 in openttd.cfg, I forgot
22:54:12 <glx> it's already present IIRC
22:54:32 <Samu> it isn't, that's why I ask
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22:56:44 <Yexo> <Samu> it isn't, that's why I ask <- that's because it isn't a setting
22:56:59 <Yexo> you're looking for "frame_freq" which should be under [network]
22:57:49 <glx> even frame_freq is not present it seems
22:58:58 <glx> of course the setting as C flag
22:59:33 <glx> it's meant to be change from the console only
22:59:46 <Yexo> I was wondering about that, but for some reason "sync_freq" was in my openttd.cfg (it has the same flag)
23:00:17 <glx> I don't have sync_freq in mine
23:00:43 <Yexo> probably from an older version, after removing it it doesn't come back by starting/closing openttd
23:07:00 <AveiMil> There's something wrong with income calculations when running a dedicated server.
23:07:13 <AveiMil> I'm transferring oil from one dock to another with an oil tanker.
23:07:27 <AveiMil> and I can see the "Transfer: 7320!" popping up
23:07:36 <AveiMil> once it's done unloading, but my money count stays the same
23:07:50 <planetmaker> you don't get money for transfers
23:08:23 <planetmaker> you only get money when you deliver to an industry.
23:08:40 <AveiMil> I could have sworn I get that cash when I played offline.
23:08:44 <planetmaker> The transfer money is shown in yellow and is the amount of the final total income that vehicle will receive
23:09:02 <AveiMil> Have I duped my self into thinking that pherhaps...
23:09:04 <planetmaker> better don't swear that. It would be false testimony
23:09:35 <AveiMil> guess it makes sense, the road oil tankers delivers and it pops up "Income 321"
23:09:41 <AveiMil> but I see my money pop up by more than 1000
23:14:12 <Samu> how's transfer calculated in this route:
23:14:21 <Samu> 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5
23:14:30 <Samu> what will be the final income?
23:14:59 <Yexo> 1 to 5 will be the amount your money goes up
23:15:44 <Yexo> 1 to 5 - 0.7*( (1 to 2) + (2 to 3) + (3 to 4) ) will be the floating number and the income counted for the last vehicle
23:15:55 <Yexo> where the 0.7 is a numbe ryou can change in the advanced settings
23:17:04 <Samu> does it take into account the duration the cargo was on transit from 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, then 3 to 4, then 4 to 5?
23:19:12 <Samu> does it also take into account the duration it was waiting on each station?
23:20:19 <planetmaker> good night Terkhen
23:20:34 <Samu> i'll test this, gonna edit a scenario
23:20:48 <planetmaker> overall travel time matters only for the payment
23:27:37 <planetmaker> wow... one bug reporter plays with OpenTTD 1.9.5-RC1 :-)
23:38:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r21218 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r21189)[FS#4236]: don't force a minimum speed when braking
23:46:01 <Samu> I set 2 road vehicles travelling the same distance for oil cargo which has no decrease in income for 60 days
23:46:09 <Samu> 1 goes directly from 1 to 3
23:46:23 <Samu> the other goes from 1 to 2 doing a transfer, then loads from 2 to 3
23:46:38 <Samu> they both get the same profit
23:47:25 <Samu> but you say the final income is what matters?
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