IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-11-08
⏴ go to previous day
00:52:17 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
00:53:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SmatZ
00:53:47 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
00:55:47 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
00:55:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen
00:56:17 *** V453000 has joined #openttd
00:56:58 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
01:07:31 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
01:07:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
05:03:50 <kdub> i have a joint shipping/train station, and the train is set to "transfer and leave empty". my ships don't take any cargo though, how do i get them to?
05:05:21 <kdub> so the train shows up, and does a transfer, some money appears, and the ships just wait at 0%
05:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> have you checked if it is refit to the correct cargo type?
05:07:42 <kdub> hmm, i havent done anything like that
05:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the problem then ;)
05:08:32 <kdub> it is a cargo ship, i havent seen anything on the wiki about refitting it
05:09:55 <kdub> ah, there we go, lets see if this works...
05:10:12 <kdub> yay, thanks Eddi|zuHause
05:56:19 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:25:49 *** rubidium has joined #openttd
07:00:49 *** Br33z4hSlut5 has joined #openttd
07:03:25 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
07:24:42 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
07:30:51 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
07:43:18 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
08:00:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:04:12 *** Rubidium_ has joined #openttd
08:04:37 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
08:10:46 <xiong> Good morning, good morning!
08:11:14 <xiong> Show of hands: Does anyone play this game who does not have an extensive computer programming background?
08:12:54 *** Mortomes|TGIF has joined #openttd
08:12:56 *** Mortomes|TGIF is now known as Mortomes|Work
08:20:04 <xiong> No hands. I guess that's all of us. It's only what I expected.
08:20:48 <planetmaker> you should also ask the reverse question ;-)
08:21:34 <xiong> I could; but where would I ask it? "Are there any computer programmers who do not play OpenTTD?"
08:21:56 <xiong> I could ask on PerlMonks, I guess.
08:21:57 <__ln__> background programming of a computer extensive does not have this game who plays anyone does?
08:22:30 <xiong> Only a hacker would say that, __ln__. You are busted.
08:24:17 <planetmaker> the reverse question here would of course be "Does anyone play this game who has an extensive computer programming background"
08:24:26 <planetmaker> and you ask it in the same place(s).
08:24:31 <xiong> I went to work today, spent the first 6 hours planning a huge transfer station in my head and on paper, and quit early. As soon as I put the finishing touches on the small, local, two-city station with a mere 17 tracks, each 6 platform tiles, I start leveling for the transfer.
08:24:39 <planetmaker> or your conclusions are biased by your questions
08:25:08 <xiong> planetmaker, That's not the reverse question; that's the inverse. Testing the theorem also tests the inverse.
08:25:30 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
08:25:51 <xiong> That's probably BS but frankly, I'm not going to strangle a cat with it.
08:25:56 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest160
08:26:49 <xiong> I *am* going to build a transfer station with 18 tracks, each 8 platforms -- on the trunk side -- and two blocks of 8 tracks, 6 platforms each for the local side.
08:27:38 <xiong> I figure, based on games played so far, that the key factor in station size is the number of trains waiting to load industrial cargo.
08:28:25 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
08:28:33 *** Guest160 is now known as norbert79
08:32:58 <xiong> Hm. The signals-in-tunnels patch is... not in trunk?
08:35:11 <avdg> hmm, should it belong in the trunk?
08:36:22 *** AveiMil has joined #openttd
08:36:23 <xiong> avdg, Sorry. I'm a baroque kinda guy. I like everything on my hot dog, except of course mustard.
08:37:40 <xiong> Although I have always loathed Micro$oft, I used Word 5.1 for many years, simply because it had a built-in little graphics editor, within which was... a tiny text editor.
08:37:59 *** azaghal_ has joined #openttd
08:41:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:41:35 <planetmaker> [09:25] <xiong> planetmaker, That's not the reverse question; that's the inverse. Testing the theorem also tests the inverse. <-- you apply the wrong methods. Social sciences have a long history of fallacies which are a result from the assumption you express here
08:42:03 <planetmaker> the assumption you express only applies to binary logic in (natural) sciences
08:42:25 <xiong> Oh, it's worse than that. So much worse, I wouldn't know where to start.
08:43:03 <xiong> Small sample size, sample bias, failure to respond, and the nasty question of how many of us are eating french fries right this very minute.
08:44:03 <planetmaker> sample size of 0 maybe?
08:44:07 <xiong> I still think everyone who plays this game (for some value of "everyone") has a computer engineering background, probably in software, very likely advanced.
08:44:38 * planetmaker ponders and wonders
08:44:47 <xiong> Eh? You read the question. You have been sampled. So Noldo and __ln__.
08:45:05 <planetmaker> xiong: reading your question doesn't mean I'll answer it ;-)
08:45:28 <xiong> Failure to respond to survey. There's a reason why I'm not in the social sciences.
08:46:07 <planetmaker> thus you're in error if you take 'no answer' as a unique answer
08:46:44 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I think he asks these questions this way just to troll us
08:46:53 <xiong> Signals-in-tunnels is an important feature. Prototype railroads signal in tunnels routinely.
08:47:03 <Terkhen> so it's probably better to not add fuel to the fire
08:47:13 <xiong> Terkhen, That's not nice. I'd like to know.
08:47:20 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I still don't find anywher computer sciences even remotely in my CV? Am I a bad guy now?
08:47:29 <dih> Terkhen, not adding fuel or rather extinguish it?
08:47:36 <xiong> I didn't place any moral value on it, man.
08:47:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker: why are you on this channel then?
08:47:57 <xiong> It's an extremely complex game. I'll take that as a "no", though.
08:48:22 <dih> i know how the fire could be put out ^^
08:48:34 <xiong> I'm curious: What are your specialties, planetmaker?
08:49:09 <xiong> Although, you know, I have to say that if you've done all the OTTD development I think you have, you are now an experienced computer programmer, whether you had that background when you came in or not.
08:49:45 <xiong> I don't limit experience to resume stuff -- or, as you folks across the pond say, CV.
08:49:51 <planetmaker> I guess I taught myself image processing and I could put that on my CV...
08:50:45 <avdg> it screwed up my entire life
08:51:08 <planetmaker> you're totlaly screwed, avdg - you're in this channel!
08:51:46 <planetmaker> sex, drugs and OpenTTD?
08:52:26 <norbert79> Just imagined: "Hey sweety, make me a new rail network, and I will go bed with you"
08:53:38 <avdg1> <3 cablemanagement *has a desktop full of wires*
08:53:39 * Rubidium wonders whether Belugas' son is has done any computer science related studies
08:56:32 <planetmaker> or (m)any of those guys who roam the German forums...
08:57:28 <Terkhen> anyone who checks the forums (or even better, flyspray) would have never asked that question
08:57:31 <xiong> Okay, looking for the experienced answer: Why, on clear track -- no junctions of any kind -- would I want to space out my signals? Why not signal every tile?
08:58:43 <xiong> Terkhen, There is always an amateur fringe. What a terribly worded question! I guess I should abandon my efforts to obtain an anthropology master's.
08:59:01 <xiong> I'd rather talk trains.
09:00:06 <xiong> I see a lot of the shots here and there have signals set every 2 tiles. I don't know why this should be a magic number. At first, I signaled every N tiles, where N is the length of my trains. But this wastes track, dynamically. So, why not every tile?
09:00:39 <planetmaker> equation of continuity ;-)
09:01:19 <xiong> Naturally, past a junction, I want to leave unsignaled N tiles. But leading up to a junction, I don't see the merit in spacing them out. Nor do I see much informed discussion of the topic.
09:01:22 <Terkhen> my point is that doing a survey in a subset of the population will give you biased results
09:02:09 <Terkhen> about the signals... I'm not very good with trains, but in my experience signals spaced every two tiles are usually enough and they cost half
09:02:27 <xiong> So, it's just a money thing?
09:02:39 <planetmaker> keeping a spacing of a signal every tile is difficult for junctions ;-)
09:02:43 <xiong> Or possibly, for some, a thing about the way it looks.
09:02:58 <xiong> planetmaker, I said that.
09:03:13 <Terkhen> also, a space between tiles makes it easier to connect new railways to your line
09:03:29 <xiong> Yah. You don't have to remove an existing signal.
09:04:26 <xiong> This ties into my desire to see signals-in-tunnels. See, here is a tunnel; unsignalled of course. A little further on, a junction, signaled before the junction, of course, and unsignaled for N tiles afterward.
09:04:32 <planetmaker> a chain is only as strong as its weakest link
09:04:39 <planetmaker> strength here is signal distance
09:04:44 <TrueBrain> also, one has to consider the time it takes to get up to speed vs many signals
09:04:54 <planetmaker> As such there's no point to use anywhere a signal distance smaller than your largest gap
09:05:06 <xiong> So, naturally, I want to put a signal immediately after the tunnel exit. This might be right before the next signal, just before the junction.
09:06:34 <xiong> I realize this will not have a large effect on throughput vs leaving the tile empty at the tunnel exit. But the early signal will be cleared a little earlier and let another train into the tunnel just a bit sooner, which may allow something else to get moving upstream, and so on.
09:08:32 <xiong> planetmaker, I think you and I are saying the same thing. If I have a stretch of track with a tunnel in it, then the tunnel is the weak link -- or the choke point. The longer the tunnel, the worse the choke. Not signaling right at tunnel entry and exit means, effectively, a longer tunnel -- a longer unsignaled track. No?
09:08:53 *** azaghal has joined #openttd
09:09:56 <xiong> The point is, perhaps, not so much to signal closely on completely clear track; but to signal closely near obstructions: tunnels and junctions.
09:10:08 <xiong> If I'm wrong about this, I'd like to know it.
09:10:23 <xiong> I don't pretend to have any real experience. I'm only theorizing.
09:11:02 <planetmaker> [10:10] <xiong> I don't pretend to have any real experience. I'm only theorizing. <-- I say, that's your main problem
09:11:58 *** stinkyfax has left #openttd
09:11:59 *** norbert79 has left #openttd
09:20:31 <xiong> What? How can that be a problem? No, don't answer that. This is trains, not scientific method. If you have a problem with people thinking, well, sorry. I'm not going to fool with it.
09:21:11 <xiong> It might be nice if you said something in support, or against, any of my half-assed theories. That would be information, which I can use.
09:21:26 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
09:21:35 <xiong> But you needn't feel compelled and I'm sorry if you take it that way.
09:23:14 <TrueBrain> I think you should play more, and ask less. As that is the game :)
09:23:57 <TrueBrain> everyone has his own style, there is no wrong or right. There only is playing :)
09:24:57 <avdg1> there is, the personal right style :)
09:46:51 * avdg wonders where the bug is in fs4212
09:47:46 <TrueBrain> hiihihihihihihihhiih :D
09:51:36 <planetmaker> --without-cocoa-quartz --without-cocoa-quickdraw was not a good choice of options ;-)
09:52:42 * avdg can only wish to learn the c++ api's
09:54:19 <TrueBrain> well, with only wishing you won' get there. I suggest doing. But that is just me :D :)
09:54:23 <TrueBrain> owh, enough with the bad jokes ...
09:54:34 <avdg> yeah, doing exercises :p
09:55:19 *** V453000 is now known as Guest165
09:59:18 *** azaghal has joined #openttd
10:00:31 <planetmaker> x86_64 withut cocoa-quartz was also a bad idea ;-)
10:03:08 * Terkhen wonders how to fight procrastination
10:03:19 <planetmaker> a cookie, if not?
10:04:11 <Terkhen> I already tried having cookies with breakfast; I still prefer to procrastinate over working
10:04:13 <Rubidium> Terkhen: by fixing any of the unsolved bugs?
10:05:01 <Rubidium> possibly filter 'OSX' out first and then starting at the bottom
10:05:03 <planetmaker> There might be a *slight* disagreement on the definition of 'procrastinate'? ;-)
10:05:39 <Terkhen> Rubidium: great, now I'll procrastinate while I look at the list :P
10:06:37 <Rubidium> hmm, or is #openttd.42 already down?
10:09:56 <planetmaker> the channel police is still there
10:10:51 <planetmaker> what purpose did that channel ever server?
10:11:47 <Terkhen> there are many pathfinder bugs... maybe it's time to learn how the pathfinder code works
10:11:56 <Terkhen> but honestly, it scares me :P
10:13:10 <planetmaker> you know what scares me? ;-)
10:13:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the old bot was called 42 IIRC
10:13:51 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I think I do... but I said scared, not terrified
10:14:08 <Rubidium> 2007-03-06T22:00:57 <_42_> Flyspray: [FS#666] Bug Report changed: field 'task_severity': 'Low' -> 'Medium' by Miham
10:15:07 *** jonty-comp has joined #openttd
10:33:24 <dih> Rubidium, would it make sense to keep admin connections open after issuing the command 'part' ?
10:33:39 <dih> ... if they are not already :-S
10:40:33 <planetmaker> (and yes, he knows Fred, even in person)
10:41:52 <norbert79> xiong: But if you stick on having a license, use GPL version 2
10:42:26 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
10:44:45 <xiong> Do you see where it says I'm not going to discuss this further, absent new information? I meant that. Please, drop it.
10:44:56 <Rubidium> dih: not really I reckon
10:45:21 <planetmaker> difference between LAN and internet server is the announcement to the masterserver only, right?
10:48:23 <dih> Rubidium, the reason i ask is that if i enter 'part' on the console, the game ends but openttd dedicated console is still active, i can change settings and then run 'newgame'
10:49:18 <dih> and that could be an interesting thing for anything connected to that socket
10:49:36 <Ammler> xiong: just release your town names grf ;-)
10:50:36 <xiong> Ammler, I'm not in the habit of writing without forethought. I meant every single word I wrote, no more, no less. I've already addressed your remark, before you even made it.
10:52:10 <xiong> What many people fail to understand about me is that I think very carefully before I say anything serious. Unless you have new information to offer me, I cannot be persuaded by any amount of rhetoric, repetition, or threat to change my mind -- not on any subject. I am only susceptible to reason. I'm sorry; I realize this infuriates many people. But that's how I'm constructed.
10:53:02 <xiong> On the bright side, I'm extremely willing to reverse myself on a dime, given that new information. I've been wrong all my life; I can be wrong again very easily.
10:53:07 <planetmaker> your lack of understanding makes reasoning futile
10:53:25 <xiong> I'm sorry; what is there to understand?
10:53:41 <planetmaker> how copyright works
10:53:50 <norbert79> Just read in the news: The engine failure of the Airbus 380 Quants plane was caused by an oil-leak in the engine. The source of the problem is under investigation, all current Airbus380 planes are on hold for Qantas.
10:53:55 <xiong> Oh, that's not a lack of understanding. That's a lack of interest.
10:54:17 <norbert79> xiong: Well, interested or not, thats an issue, which noone can avoid :)
10:54:39 <Ammler> that's not true, if you wouldn't be interested in, you would just use the license you get told to use.
10:54:40 <xiong> I consider the entire matter of "intellectual property" to be a fool's errand. That said, yes, it's an issue I can't entirely avoid.
10:55:04 <xiong> Ammler, If you have read my post then you would see I have answered that issue. Very clearly.
10:55:07 <norbert79> Ammler: Which could also cause some troubles for him later on, but thats something which I don't want to go into details about :)
10:55:16 <planetmaker> norbert79: it's one possibility... Lufthansa claims to not have seen that at their engines...
10:55:30 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, I also vote for maintanence issues
10:55:33 <Ammler> xiong: yes, which tells me, that you are very interested in the license topic, maybe too much :-)
10:55:39 <norbert79> planetmaker: Wouldn't be the first time at Qantas
10:56:03 <xiong> No; rather, I'm hostile to it, personally. I don't want to have anything to do with it, at all, not in any way, shape or form.
10:56:08 <planetmaker> norbert79: maintenance issues? Hm... They're one of the very few without fatal incidents in their whole history
10:56:33 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, not having lost any planes and having ongoing maintanence issues are two different things :)
10:56:58 <planetmaker> true for sure ;-)
10:57:19 <Ammler> norbert79: also gpl isn't the easiest license, imo, that is rather CC-whatever, as you don't need to supply sources then.
10:57:20 <planetmaker> but it tells at least that in the past maintenance has been thorough enough to avoid fatal mishaps ;-)
10:57:23 <xiong> And now, you've all tried again to persuade my without introducing new information. Please, spare yourself the frustration. I'm a blockhead.
10:57:44 <norbert79> Ammler: I still prefer it, besides in case of GRF's, the GRF is the source itself...
10:57:53 <norbert79> Ammler: But you are partly right
10:58:22 *** zachanima has joined #openttd
10:58:24 <planetmaker> Ammler: the (newer) CDDL is not bad either and makes cooperation easier
10:58:43 <Terkhen> xiong: if that is the case, why bother about releasing your work?
10:58:49 <planetmaker> you may pick pieces, keep the CDDL for that and apply your favourite one for the whole project, the one which you chose
10:59:04 <norbert79> planetmaker: Indeed, but I just think they used some other spare part replacing something in their planes... Just think on the British Airways accident, where the pilot got almost sucked out fully from a Boeing, because the maintanenr has replaced the bolts of the cockpit's front panels with almost similar bolts
10:59:27 <planetmaker> never heart of that. Sounds scary
10:59:42 <norbert79> planetmaker: It's just a hunch... But having the same issue for all planes? Must be maintanence... Let me google that for ya :)
11:00:00 <norbert79> planetmaker: Pilot survived! :)
11:00:03 <xiong> Terkhen, Please stop. Or go on, if you merely want to have the last word. You may, at your option, read my post, which will answer all your questions, I sincerely believe.
11:00:08 <Ammler> xiong: the only info important from me, you got already
11:00:30 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ok, it was a BAC
11:00:36 <Ammler> no need for credits and reusing my license
11:00:44 <planetmaker> norbert79: can be a design / construction issue of the engine as well. I read that maintenance is done by Rolls Royce anyway
11:01:06 <norbert79> planetmaker: No, the Airbus is built with two types of engines, one is Rolls Royce only
11:01:19 <xiong> Another thing that may clarify things for you all is that I cannot detect most rhetorical questions. If you are making a statement and you address it to me with a question mark at the end, I think I'm being asked to answer, although I know that quite often, people do not mean to ask, merely to state. Sorry; this is a blind spot of mine.
11:01:26 <planetmaker> yes. But only Rolls Royce engines have that problem, norbert79 ;-)
11:01:27 <norbert79> planetmaker: I mean there are two versions of the plane
11:01:33 <xiong> Ammler, You presented new information, so I replied.
11:01:36 <norbert79> planetmaker: Crap, I rest my case :D
11:01:56 <planetmaker> yes, two engine manufacturers, I know :-)
11:01:58 <Ammler> xiong: and what holds you back from release now?
11:02:15 <planetmaker> Ammler: obviously "no new information" :-P
11:02:17 <xiong> Ammler, Have I truly been unclear?
11:02:36 <xiong> Or are you asking a rhetorical question?
11:02:46 <Ammler> well, you told something to send me your source and I should make the release?
11:03:02 <xiong> You read my reply. It stands.
11:03:48 <Terkhen> xiong: that's my point... why raise the topic again if you don't want to discuss it further?
11:04:36 <xiong> Terkhen, I did not raise the topic again.
11:05:17 <xiong> Why don't you guys just try moving on? You are frustrated, I am frustrated. I'm really a fairly decent guy but you are pushing in the wrong place. I will be happy to come over to your house and do your dishes, even if you have burned gummy crud on the bottom of your pots. I like to be helpful when I can.
11:05:34 <norbert79> xiong: Hehh... Yeah, when you are raising a big thread, you are upset, when you don't get ansewers, when others start a thread partially behalf of your issues, you are upset, because you are involved... :) Clever...
11:05:38 <planetmaker> wth, norbert79 ?! that's... 'amazing' is the wrong word
11:06:03 <Terkhen> xiong: I see a new post from you, which motivated an answer here
11:06:10 <norbert79> planetmaker: Amazing in the term that the pilot survived without any serious injuries
11:06:51 <xiong> norbert79, No, that's not right. I wrote the thread for reasons I stated in the thread itself. I'm upset because I can't put the issue to rest. I have not seen this "other thread"; you might be kind enough to point it out to me.
11:07:37 <dih> what thread are you guys on about?
11:07:42 <planetmaker> xiong: you have all means and all liberty to put it to a rest you like ever since Ammler answered you there. So maybe heed your own words and spoken desire to lest the 'issue' rest, ok?
11:07:46 <xiong> Dear gods, from the littleun down to the big fat one on the end!
11:07:50 <norbert79> xiong: Other thread: Everything else you started talking about :D Anyway, sorry dude, either you stick to the license of CC or CDDL or GPL2, otherwise US regulations apply and you get ongoing requests on relicensing.. Your choice :)
11:08:19 <norbert79> xiong: Whatever fits you :)
11:08:54 <xiong> planetmaker, Ammler posted. In my reply, I think I made it clear why I *had* to reply. I'd have been happy if nobody had said a word.
11:09:12 <xiong> What is the point of this discussion?
11:09:32 <norbert79> Oh, how many tiomes have we been asking this question :)
11:09:45 <dih> hey fred - you are soooo mean :-P
11:09:52 <Terkhen> yes, we agree on something
11:09:59 <Terkhen> let's drop the issue right now completely :)
11:10:04 * dih wonders if pm even has a highlight for that name :-D
11:10:15 <xiong> I tell all you guys, clearly: I did not start this convo here on IRC tonight. Don't blame me for it.
11:10:19 <dih> Terkhen, close the threads? :-P
11:10:44 * dih blames fred - after all he does attract this kind of stuff :-P
11:10:54 <Terkhen> dih: ignoring it and further pointless discussions here should be enough
11:11:20 <xiong> Now, I will go back to my trains.
11:11:54 <xiong> If I can persuade the Harrisburg local authority to let me build the damn platforms. I've already invested a million bucks in track, tunnels, and signals.
11:12:07 <Noldo> so there is a threah to flame somewhere?
11:12:19 <Ammler> just don't blame others, if you don't want release something then
11:12:30 <planetmaker> [12:10] <dih> Terkhen, close the threads? :-P <-- I guess I'll do that...
11:12:38 <norbert79> Thats what the Fat controller said to Thomas the engine.. He ended up in the asylum too
11:12:49 <norbert79> (going back to his trains)
11:13:32 <norbert79> TFT "And you Percy go straight ahead, and pick up those coals..." Nurse: "Doctor, he is doing it again..."
11:14:21 * norbert79 is a destroyer of childhood illusions...
11:41:38 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
11:41:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo_
11:49:09 <planetmaker> norbert79: that video on the BA incident looks interesting. I shall watch it tonight
11:50:16 <norbert79> planetmaker: I am happy, that I could share this with you... :) My most investigated, "favorite" accident was the JAL123 in 1985...
11:50:41 <norbert79> planetmaker: There is also a flash animation about the accident including original sound tapes
11:51:09 <norbert79> planetmaker: Moment :)
11:51:13 <planetmaker> or you mean JAL123?
11:51:24 <planetmaker> then google video has it as the fingertips
11:53:21 <planetmaker> ah, yes, I recall that from the news
11:54:28 <norbert79> Most terrible one, and the most honoured one
12:23:26 <planetmaker> read a bit back for the link
12:27:48 <dih> there is a series called 'air crash investigation' on youtube, they also go through that flight
12:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch too many of these, you'll never want to fly again :p
12:39:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not that afraid ;-)
12:39:40 <planetmaker> I've been flying within a plane only allowed to take-off on special permit for each take-off ;-)
12:39:57 <planetmaker> not once, not twice, but a dozen times ;-)
12:41:34 <planetmaker> but it has a hand-picked service crew - but no one else anymore has the qualification ;-)
12:41:54 <planetmaker> and, granted, it's flown by french military test pilot trainer as commander ;-)
12:44:04 <Rubidium> that sounds annoying when you need to make a go-around after the wheels have hit the tarmac
12:49:24 <Rubidium> even then, media have a strange way of covering incidents; a small plane crashing here with a few dead is big news, whereas a car crashing into a tree killing a few doesn't even show up on the local news
12:50:50 <SirSquidness> planetmaker: I am envious of your plane flying escapades (although, only if you're talking about the exact plane featured in that picture, not just a plane of the same model)
12:51:16 <planetmaker> I mean that exact one, yes
12:54:27 *** Guest165 is now known as V453000
13:03:50 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
13:04:27 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest172
13:07:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:40:50 *** perk111 has joined #openttd
14:09:16 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
14:09:56 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest181
14:15:22 <Belugas> [03:53] * Rubidium wonders whether Belugas' son is has done any computer science related studies <-- unless he has done it behind my back, unless it involves car racing game, no, i really doubt that :)
14:17:42 <planetmaker> a completely realistic 'hello' to Belugas :-)
14:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas is back to the right time, it seems ;)
14:19:44 <Belugas> looks like it indeed :)
14:20:15 * Belugas shivers at realism when looking at all that realism related stuff on his desk...
14:39:19 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
14:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose "init 1" is a sensible thing to do from an ssh console :p
14:41:13 <planetmaker> depends on the startup-scripts at runlevel 1 and its crontab
14:48:15 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: does it work? :-P
14:49:28 *** Guest181 is now known as norbert79
14:53:09 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
14:54:06 <Chris_Booth> I love playing openttd in 1704 with sailing ships
14:54:54 * peter1138 tries to remember the last time he properly played a game
14:57:07 * norbert79 just got addicted to SWAT 4... Harder than thought...
14:57:20 <peter1138> well, i meant a game of openttd
14:57:30 <norbert79> Oh... Well, me, I played it last week
14:57:55 <norbert79> not much just as few hours during night
14:59:19 <Chris_Booth> I only wanted to look at the sailing ships
14:59:26 <Chris_Booth> and now have a nice network of canals
16:00:54 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
16:21:12 *** norbert79 has left #openttd
16:39:24 *** avdg is now known as Guest200
17:06:30 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttd
17:11:35 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:12:14 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:46:30 <Belugas> "To make OpenTTD more realistic, I think there should be an option which allows you to sell used vehicles to other companies."
17:46:49 <Belugas> this is and incredible STUPID argument!!!
17:46:50 *** fjb is now known as Guest212
17:47:17 <Belugas> yeah, the game will be so freakingly realistic!!! YOU SEEL YOUR VEHICLL!!!
17:47:33 <Belugas> man, i'm going to be hooked to life tio the game this way!
17:47:56 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: when in doubt source code :/
17:48:03 <Belugas> the Sources, my young apprentice, the Sources!
17:48:04 <AveiMil> I don't know how to read the source code.
17:48:15 <Belugas> can you read english?
17:48:41 <Prof_Frink> Belugas should be more realistic.
17:49:09 <Qantourisc> I'm translating: "Waiting: Nothing"
17:49:11 <Belugas> o... it's coming from Prof_Frink... no need to argue about realism :D
17:49:29 <Belugas> he's as much a loon as i can be ;)
17:49:30 <AveiMil> realism must take second place to gameplay
17:50:02 <Qantourisc> Now there are 2 ways i can translate it: "Waiting: nill" or "Waiting: nothing to be transported"
17:50:51 <Belugas> but seriously, no, there is nothing very specal (not as realistic acceleration anyway) about inflation
17:50:57 <Belugas> it just goes up and down
17:51:10 <Belugas> randomly, as glx mentionned
17:51:34 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: maybe there is something _specific_ you wish to know about it ?
17:51:37 <Belugas> economic cycle is not really of an interest, anyway
17:52:06 <AveiMil> Qantourisc, well for one if it has any effect on gameplay otehr than make all the numbers bigger over time...
17:52:37 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: it makes you loose money if you cannot keep up with the inflation
17:52:41 <Belugas> it make the game more realistic
17:52:57 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: also yesterday they mentioned that costs inflate faster, as a result, making everything more expensive to do
17:53:00 <AveiMil> Inflation generally increases income too
17:53:16 <AveiMil> so I'm wondering if it increases expenses more than incom...
17:53:19 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: yes, but if your investment return is smaller due to it
17:54:01 <frosch123> AveiMil: expenses increase one percent point more than expenses
17:54:20 <Qantourisc> frosch123: is there way to turn this up ?
17:54:29 <Qantourisc> frosch123: later in the game money roles in :D
17:54:59 <Qantourisc> No comments on how i should translate "Waiting: nothing" ?
17:55:03 <AveiMil> I'm trying to balance the game via my NewGRF so I need to take inflation into account
17:55:08 <AveiMil> makes it much more complicated
17:55:21 <frosch123> Qantourisc: get the source, edit StartupEconomy(), compile, and play
17:55:46 <Qantourisc> frosch123: wrong answer :)
17:55:51 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i know how to edit it
17:56:00 <Belugas> no, only possible answer other than : i'll do it for you
17:56:20 <Qantourisc> Belugas: regarding my question ?
17:56:29 <Qantourisc> Belugas: or regadrings AveiMil's ?
17:56:54 <Belugas> ho... frosch123 answered to AveiMil while naming you...
17:57:27 <Qantourisc> frosch123: sorry frosch123
17:57:28 <Belugas> bad frosch123.. get a coffee you sportster
17:57:43 <frosch123> now, you confused me
17:57:52 <AveiMil> If that was a answer to me, I don't get it.
17:57:56 <Qantourisc> I think i'll translate it as "Waiting: nill"
18:00:12 <AveiMil> can someone figure out for me how much in % purcahse costs go up over the course of 100 years in the game?
18:00:32 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 7.24464611825
18:00:36 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 131.501257846
18:00:57 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: 1 worth: math :)
18:00:59 <AveiMil> inflation rate is 5%?
18:01:12 <frosch123> AveiMil: you can configure between 2 and 5
18:01:30 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i'll change mine to 5% then :D
18:01:45 <AveiMil> where? advanced settings show on or off
18:01:50 <frosch123> Qantourisc: i thought you wanted to make it harder?
18:02:05 <frosch123> Qantourisc: but low inflation is harder
18:02:11 <SmatZ> AveiMil: in difficulty settings
18:02:18 <frosch123> due to the one percent point difference of income and expenses
18:02:20 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i'm confused ?
18:02:49 <AveiMil> there's no inflation option in difficulty here
18:02:54 <frosch123> 1% on income with 2% on expenses vs. 4% on income and 5% on expenses
18:02:56 <AveiMil> unless it's directly linked to intrrest rates
18:03:40 <Qantourisc> Ok i'm going to ask the channel a general question to prevent all further questions from me:
18:03:41 <frosch123> banks do not earn anything :p
18:03:53 <Qantourisc> Should I translate the exact meaning, or what it should be ?
18:04:07 <AveiMil> so inflation rate is intrest rate + 1?
18:04:28 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: the inflation of the COST is +1
18:04:37 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: maybe he made a mistake ?
18:05:17 <frosch123> is it 2-4? maybe :)
18:05:26 <frosch123> iirc tto was up to 6 or so
18:05:42 <DorpsGek> AveiMil: 50.5049481843
18:06:05 <SmatZ> _economy.interest_rate = _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest;
18:06:07 <SmatZ> _economy.infl_amount = _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest;
18:06:07 <AveiMil> the cost of a 10K car in OpenTTD will be 50K after 100 years then eh?
18:06:08 <SmatZ> _economy.infl_amount_pr = max(0, _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest - 1);
18:06:12 <frosch123> @calc 1.02 ** 100 / 1.01 ** 100
18:06:12 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2.67842689927
18:06:15 <SmatZ> so yes, it's linked to interest rate :)
18:06:17 <frosch123> @calc 1.04 ** 100 / 1.03 ** 100
18:06:17 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2.62791588052
18:06:44 <Qantourisc> frosch123: so i should pick more inflaction then :D
18:07:14 <Belugas> some users of some countries might argue that these rates are not realistic...
18:07:41 <Qantourisc> Belugas: you just said it yourself
18:08:05 <Qantourisc> indicating it's relastic in others, meaning it's realastic
18:08:58 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
18:09:16 <frosch123> Qantourisc: i hope you are not from around montreal
18:09:34 <dih> else you are in for a spanking from the daddy :-P
18:10:03 <Qantourisc> Hell in the past there have been intrests of 10% !
18:11:18 <Rubidium> 10%? That's closer to the lover limit
18:11:34 <frosch123> there were also -6% :p
18:12:45 <frosch123> what's the "lovel limit"? the amount of money which survives a shoe shop?
18:13:12 * Rubidium guesses he isn't awake yet
18:13:22 <frosch123> hmm, typos on quoting typos ...
18:14:42 <AveiMil> When you start a new game at for instance 1970, it factors in the inflation rate you would have had if you had started at 1950 and played to 1970?
18:15:38 <AveiMil> any console command to to that? :P
18:15:51 <frosch123> that's why it is increasing hard to play with dbset in later startyears :p
18:25:44 <frosch123> a train newgrf from 2005 in the spirit of duke nukem
18:28:03 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
18:39:51 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: xiong was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 27 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <xiong> If I can persuade the Harrisburg local authority to let me build the damn platforms. I've already invested a million bucks in track, tunnels, and signals.
18:39:58 * Rubidium is high on dihydrogenmonooxide and some other stuff like urea, chloride, sodium, etc
18:40:13 <SmatZ> we should certainly ban those drugs!
18:40:53 *** DustSpinner has joined #openttd
18:40:53 <glx> dihydrogenmonooxide <-- I call that water :)
18:41:13 <SmatZ> all people who use that drug die sooner or later
18:41:24 * Rubidium slaps glx for spoiling it for AveiMil
18:41:27 <SmatZ> and they die even sooner when they don't use it :p
18:41:42 <Prof_Frink> Or when they use too much of it.
18:42:11 <glx> Belugas: no, you're deep ;)
18:43:09 <Belugas> good one, glx, very good one!!
18:43:54 * Prof_Frink is high on ladders
18:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21117 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
18:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by marek995
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
18:45:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:58:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:02:55 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
19:10:41 *** saronpasu has joined #openttd
19:41:33 * Zuu wonders if it is a good sign that nobody yet has commented his last release of CluelessPlus
19:41:40 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
19:41:58 <Zuu> but it has got 418 downloads, so at least someone has probably tested it.
19:44:09 <Zuu> (it is just a bug-fix release but at least one of them seems to have been fairly critical)
19:49:37 <SmatZ> Zuu: cluelessplus, the smileyAI? :)
19:51:04 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
19:51:05 <SmatZ> Zuu: it seems to sometimes build dead stations
19:53:03 <SmatZ> the stations got destroyed :)
20:05:33 <__ln__> your screenshot is laughing at us!
20:06:30 <Markk> __ln__: In Soviet Russia, the screenshot laughs at you!
20:13:55 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
20:20:24 <Zuu> SmatZ: Are you sure that "0 I11 :D" is not from a connection under construction?
20:20:30 <Zuu> (sorry, I got a phone call)
20:21:37 <Zuu> or any of the other CluelessPlus stations around the power plant.
20:21:57 * andythenorth ponders slicing Sugar Refinery
20:22:03 <Zuu> Or did you talk about the yellow truck stop that next to green HQ?
20:23:04 <andythenorth> with png, do I need to slice at all?
20:27:00 <SmatZ> Zuu: it probably was, later the station got removed
20:27:12 <SmatZ> oen station got removed and other got connected :)
20:27:27 <SmatZ> they were just unconnected for quite long time, so I thought they are forgotten somehow
20:29:34 <Zuu> Could be the road pathfinder that took long time to figure out that no path could be found. It tries from one end for X number of iterations and then from the other end for Y number of interations. X is quite small while Y is really the limit of how long time it will pathfind.
20:30:37 <Zuu> By setting X to zero you would minimize the time it takes to find a path if there is a path. The size of X depends how large islands that can be detected without trying *any* route to the island.
20:40:14 <Belugas> #we're on the road to nowhere
20:46:31 <andythenorth> Belugas: or the road to hell :P
20:47:11 * andythenorth wonders when we're driving home for christmas?
20:47:50 <planetmaker> I'd suspect about 17h after Church for the children
20:57:46 * Zuu hopes the highway is congested so that the ride takes longer time. :-)
21:03:50 * Rubidium opens the doors to good music :)
21:07:58 *** DustSpinner has joined #openttd
21:23:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21118 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Name and deduplicate some magic numbers.
21:23:20 <Belugas> quite good music indeed :D
21:26:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21119 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Helicopter flight altitude was determined inconsistently in different places.
21:28:49 <AveiMil> Can you change introduction date via NewGRF?
21:29:36 <AveiMil> introduction_date I guess
21:30:09 <AveiMil> introduction_date: 1976;?
21:30:44 <frosch123> Belugas: AveiMil uses nml :)
21:31:12 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
21:31:20 <Belugas> sorry and forget about my presence :)
21:31:21 <frosch123> AveiMil: introduction_date: date(1925,1,1);
21:31:50 <frosch123> (copied from ogfx-trains)
21:32:21 *** Markk_ is now known as Markk
21:34:22 <frosch123> Belugas: our days of plain nfo are counted :) the younger guys take over with something better
21:34:28 <frosch123> i also need to learn nml now :)
21:34:51 <AveiMil> is nml something developed FOR OpenTTD?
21:34:58 <AveiMil> or is it something that's used for other things?
21:35:30 <andythenorth> stuck with this nfo thing :P
21:35:41 <frosch123> AveiMil: there is also effort to make ttdp suitable for it
21:36:04 <frosch123> or the other way around :p
21:36:36 <Belugas> youger guys indeed :)
21:37:16 <AveiMil> I see, I thought that was "pre" OpenTTD
21:37:24 <Belugas> so if you see ottd, that's us, if you see ttdp, it's them, if you see ottdp, it's everyone!
21:37:36 * frosch123 enjoys linking to ottd wiki about ttdp :p
21:38:13 <AveiMil> so ttdp is just a patch for the original, basically
21:38:25 <AveiMil> or mod, wahtever you call it
21:38:31 <frosch123> depends no the definition of 'just'
21:38:44 <AveiMil> meaning you need the original game
21:39:26 <AveiMil> can't imagine ttdp being anywhere near as populare as openttd
21:41:35 *** Keyboard_Warrior has joined #openttd
21:42:34 <Rubidium> the servers running the *.ttdpatch.net domains get (combined) more traffic than the server running the *.openttd.org domain
21:43:11 <Belugas> it's quite an incredible patch, in fact.
21:44:43 <AveiMil> I'm sure it is, dind't mean it like that.
21:45:15 <AveiMil> odd, OpenTTD needs to advertsie :D
21:46:06 <Rubidium> word of mouth seems to work quite well
21:46:50 <AveiMil> I found it by chance, randomly thought of the game I played as a 12 year old and googled transport tycoon
21:46:52 <Belugas> advertise is done with UDP
21:46:54 <AveiMil> and found a blog post
21:47:04 <AveiMil> I was confused as hell
21:47:14 <AveiMil> as to wheter or not I needed original game graphics with OpenTTD
21:47:21 <AveiMil> or if it was the full game or what
21:48:28 <AveiMil> are and of you game devs/aspiring game devs?
21:49:19 <glx> before 1.0.0 original was needed
21:49:22 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
21:49:50 <Zuu> AveiMil: Many of those who have spoken recently are OpenTTD developers
21:50:37 <Zuu> As OpenTTD is a game, you could probably call them game developers if you wish.
21:51:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
21:51:31 <AveiMil> Let me rephrase, paid developers.
21:52:08 <Zuu> At least one of them are, but not for _game_ development.
21:52:54 <Zuu> Also, you could include more than just programmers in 'developers'.
21:53:50 <Rubidium> does working on frameworks used in (some) game development count as "game developer"?
21:54:25 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
21:56:08 * andythenorth has been a game developer
21:56:13 <andythenorth> and is not any more
21:56:22 <AveiMil> cool, who did you work for and what games did you work on?
21:59:46 <AveiMil> the viechles speed/cost etc, where the stats pulled from the original?
22:00:13 <AveiMil> what where they thinking when they balanced the aircraft stats?!
22:01:05 <glx> aircraft are meant to be 4 times slower than other vehicles
22:01:56 <AveiMil> I was more thinking about the various aircraft compared to the other aircrafts
22:02:03 <Belugas> i'm paid to play a cool game of cards
22:02:16 <Belugas> program a cool game of cards
22:02:31 <Belugas> no, not quite poker :)
22:02:44 <Belugas> my cards have exotic names, like...
22:02:48 <AveiMil> so not a professional poker player then
22:03:05 <AveiMil> program transaction code thingymagik?
22:03:10 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
22:03:10 *** George is now known as Guest241
22:03:10 *** George|2 is now known as George
22:04:35 <AveiMil> I'm an application installation packager, if OpenTTD needs someone to make .msi installer files for OpenTTD I'd be happy to help
22:05:12 <Zuu> There is a compile farm that does that work IIRC.
22:05:32 <glx> we have exe installer for now, and it's enough
22:05:34 <Zuu> Maybe not for nightlies, but for stables.
22:09:21 * frosch123 counts three 'professional' developers in the team
22:11:20 <frosch123> good that we know each other so well :)
22:11:23 <Belugas> peter1138, frosch123, Alberth and I
22:12:03 <Rubidium> nah, crossover development isn't software development :)
22:12:13 <SmatZ> Rubi isn't a professional (yet)?
22:12:34 <__ln__> how do you define 'professional' anyway
22:12:41 <SmatZ> __ln__: what you do for linig
22:12:50 <frosch123> __ln__: 'paid', not to confuse with 'good'
22:13:00 <AveiMil> is a hobo a professional
22:13:40 <SmatZ> "A hobo is a migratory worker or homeless vagabond, often penniless." hmm
22:14:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior has quit IRC
22:15:35 <Rubidium> there's even an annual hobo convention, so it must have some degree of professionalism
22:16:18 <Belugas> yeah, paid =professional. Does not mean good, just paid :)
22:17:31 <__ln__> "did nothing the whole day, still got paid" = professional
22:17:49 * Belugas is not a professional, in this case...
22:18:14 <AveiMil> you do nothing and don't even get paid?
22:18:51 * andythenorth wonders what he would be defined as
22:18:59 <glx> Belugas doesn't compile in his head, he's not a real dev ;)
22:19:08 <Rubidium> andythenorth: a maccie?
22:19:47 <AveiMil> Are Mac users allowed in here?
22:19:47 <Belugas> glx, you know me so well :D
22:20:08 <glx> AveiMil: we'd prefer Mac devs
22:20:29 <SmatZ> we love OpenTTD users :)
22:20:37 <SmatZ> without users, our work would be useless :)
22:20:49 <Rubidium> glx: lies... they report bugs to make the statistics of the badness of the Mac OS X port more overwhelming
22:20:52 <frosch123> but less annoying :p
22:21:03 * andythenorth doesn't report OS X bugs
22:21:16 * andythenorth reports newgrf requests
22:21:24 <andythenorth> chuck norris reports OS X bugs
22:21:49 <glx> last one is nice but I don't know if planetmaker reported it
22:22:10 <SmatZ> glx: yeah, it looks very broken for no apparent reason
22:22:15 <andythenorth> avdg: works ok for me
22:22:30 <glx> SmatZ: it's OSX, no need for a reason
22:23:07 <__ln__> glx: are you Rubidium's alter ego?
22:23:12 <avdg> its just software, its made to produce an output and not errors :p
22:23:53 <glx> __ln__: no, but at least something working on win9x usually still works on win7
22:24:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:24:07 <glx> and that's clearly not true on OSX
22:25:15 <__ln__> glx: that's also a burden, they cannot ever deprecate anything.
22:25:16 <SmatZ> or better, errors ⊂ output
22:26:12 * andythenorth ships a Sugar Refinery
22:26:16 <frosch123> luckily we can deprecate osx :p
22:27:07 <frosch123> yeah, nfo developers are also deprecated :p
22:27:17 * andythenorth deprecates being awake
22:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> like an obiwan in 2D->1D array access translation
22:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> during deciding which rectangle to redraw
22:28:46 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: but only for x86_64
22:29:02 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: it seems some ground sprites are not drawn, for some reason
22:29:05 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: except it follows the shape of the sprites
22:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so a bug in the spritecache access?
22:29:36 <SmatZ> there might be a valgrind for OSX...
22:31:09 <SmatZ> it could be some broken linking/whatever
22:31:43 * frosch123 also guesses for some compiler incompatibility
22:32:05 <frosch123> some signed/unsigned 32bit/64bit issue
22:32:58 <SmatZ> it works fine under x86_64 linux / windows
22:33:50 <SmatZ> at least we can rule out endian issues :)
22:33:50 <glx> frosch123: I remember a nice signed/unsigned issue on windows :)
22:35:23 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by glx :: r20722 trunk/src/statusbar_gui.cpp (2010-09-03 12:52:09 UTC)
22:35:24 <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix (r20719): signed/unsigned side effect makes a small negative value become a big positive value
22:36:02 <frosch123> yeah, something like that :)
22:36:55 <frosch123> (at least i expect)
22:37:07 <frosch123> evening planetmaker
22:37:22 <planetmaker> self-compiled gcc goesn't compile openttd on OSX. Hello folks :-)
22:40:19 <Rubidium> even then Apple seems to be using llvm for their "latest" gcc
22:40:36 <planetmaker> yes. that works here, too
22:40:44 <SmatZ> clang/llvm almost compiles openttd nowadays :)
22:41:15 <planetmaker> default gcc also almost compiles openttd on osx :-P
22:41:44 <SmatZ> well, there's one bug I mentioned before you became a dev
22:42:06 <SmatZ> there's one (mis)understanding of standard, where clang refuses to behave the same way as other compilers
22:42:19 <SmatZ> (I have to say I agree with the behaviour of clang)
22:42:30 <planetmaker> now I'm curious, what is it?
22:43:29 <SmatZ> struct A { protected: static int i; }; struct B { friend struct C; }; struct C { C() { A::i = 0; } };
22:43:54 <SmatZ> if it compiles depends on whether definition of B is visible when compiling C::C()
22:44:42 <SmatZ> other compilers compile it only when definition of B is visible
22:44:43 <frosch123> doesn't that lack some " : B"?
22:45:02 <SmatZ> frosch123: I think it's fine as it is, but I might be wrong :)
22:45:11 <SmatZ> struct B : A { friend struct C; };
22:51:14 <planetmaker> circular dependencies... can be trip-wires, I guess
22:52:26 <planetmaker> good night Rubidium
22:52:34 <planetmaker> and actually, good night SmatZ and others, too :-)
22:53:18 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :)
22:55:08 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
23:12:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:26:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:48:05 <AveiMil> Just finnished going through all the aircraft and balancing them as best I could relative to the other aircraft. Needs practical testing of course but it's a start. Looking for anyone willing to load up a game and look through the list to see if it makes sense/has problems. Can download here: http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/
23:49:44 <SmatZ> I am not really a newgrf guy
23:50:02 <SmatZ> though, whoever will review your grf, will prefer to see the nfo/nml instead
23:52:12 <AveiMil> much easier to see the changes in the ingame GUI
23:54:57 <AveiMil> it's the aircraft stats I want a second opinion on
23:56:36 <SmatZ> I have no clue about aircraft
23:56:42 <SmatZ> Belugas likes planes :)
continue to next day ⏵
