IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-11-04
⏴ go to previous day
00:05:32 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
00:10:18 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
00:10:18 *** George is now known as Guest1824
00:10:18 *** George|2 is now known as George
00:21:31 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
00:22:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SmatZ
00:23:46 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
00:23:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
00:25:35 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
00:26:31 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
00:26:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen
00:27:31 *** V453000 has joined #openttd
00:27:43 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
00:33:05 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
00:33:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SmatZ
00:34:35 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
00:35:20 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
00:35:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
00:36:35 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
00:37:03 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler
00:37:35 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
00:37:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen
00:38:35 *** V453000 has joined #openttd
00:39:17 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
00:50:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
00:58:51 <xiong> I do not see how many tons there are to a crate of Farm Supplies in FIRS. Is this documented?
01:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> typically, 1 ton = 1 item, but in some cases the GRF can change that
01:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (but you can't read this, so it is useless information)
01:43:39 <noom> i have more questions :p
01:44:02 <noom> i'm having a lot of trouble keeping a lumber industry running
01:44:21 <noom> they yield such little wood, i'm finding most of it decays before my train can get back for another pickup
01:44:35 <noom> adding more trains doesnt help the situation as they just end up bogged down at the station
01:44:48 <noom> hasnt been helping me at all
01:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure you have _always_ a train waiting
01:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> then your rating (and with it the industry production) goes up
01:45:33 <noom> so just throw heaps of engines on the line ?
01:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> use "full load" orders
01:45:51 <noom> my problem there was the station filled up
01:46:04 <noom> so i added feeders, that helped a bt
01:46:11 <noom> but now the feeder trains have negative income :p
01:46:37 <noom> and *pop* the forest disapeared haha
01:46:43 <noom> i couldnt see that option on trains
01:46:51 <noom> assumed it was only for boats -> stations
01:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it is available for all vehicles
01:47:13 <noom> so really i just need to increase the volume of trains, make sure there's always at least one waiting
01:47:22 <noom> and i guess i need overflow control for the rare times it backs up
01:47:27 <noom> or maybe just more stations ?
01:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get creative with depots ;)
01:48:06 <noom> yeah i'm getting very good at it :D
01:48:27 <noom> i have an un-interupted main line now, you can run express from one end of my track to the other without stopping, its great :D
01:49:54 <noom> i dont really like tunnels though...they ruin your signal block
01:50:51 <noom> ok well thanks for your help mate
01:50:58 <noom> gonna go have another go at the lumber industry :p
01:52:36 <noom> i'm a bit limited for space with that design i'm using though
01:52:45 <noom> i suppose i could split much earlier maybe
01:52:57 <noom> you mean to say, if the tunnels full, they just use the second one ?
01:53:24 <SmatZ> trains won't enter the red signal if they can use green one
01:53:44 <SmatZ> if the other path isn't much longer :)
01:54:03 <noom> i find my engines doing some really odd pathfinding lol
01:54:18 <noom> i think its more my lack of practice with signal lights than anything
01:54:27 <noom> but they do some amazing stuff to get around traffic haha
01:54:59 <noom> i was wondering, if i uploaded this scenario i'm working on somewhere, would someone look at it and tell me if i'm doing it right ? :p
01:56:54 <SmatZ> hard to say, most people are sleeping now :(
01:57:04 <SmatZ> you can try to post it at tt-forums.net :)
01:59:33 <noom> i need to learn to make those terminus-ro-ro combos
01:59:41 <noom> where you can enter or leave any direction from any platform
02:00:05 <noom> i get stuck with the mini-bridges / tunnels you have to make to link everything
02:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to make bridges
02:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, missed him
02:22:49 *** George is now known as Guest1838
02:32:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
02:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just before 4AM.
03:04:25 * avdg still thinks he didn't edit the wiki enough yet
03:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> could always provoke an edit war :p
03:10:47 <avdg> with 1 char each edit, right :D
03:11:01 <avdg> donno if I am that smart
03:11:14 <avdg> (to keep al these changes in my mind)
03:36:01 *** saronpasu has joined #openttd
03:42:38 *** Muddy_ is now known as Muddy
03:53:04 * avdg hates the duplicates of the translation box
04:59:32 <xiong> How can I find the correct length of a vehicle, specifically a rail wagon/car?
04:59:58 <xiong> Documentation seems a bit spotty on this. NARS vehicles are not all 1/2 tile long.
05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:13:47 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
07:21:56 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
07:35:22 <xiong> Good morning! I didn't realize it was.
07:36:00 <xiong> I just had an engine break down, with 99% reliability and a full, badly needed load, immediately out of depot. :(
07:36:23 <Xaroth> sucks to be that train then :P
07:38:39 <xiong> I'm starting to regret about half of every decision I've made in this game. This is... complex. I've been playing extremely complex games for years (and bragging about it, too); but this may be the one that's bigger than I am. )
07:40:50 <xiong> I've been looking up other people's junctions. A full interchange, with 2 tracks entering from each of 4 directions, seems to take up about a 30-tile-square area. I get the feeling that most people don't play on small maps.
07:44:00 <xiong> Barrel platforms don't seem to represent chemicals.
08:04:11 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:06:15 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
08:06:48 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest1862
08:07:40 *** Guest1862 is now known as norbert79
08:13:43 *** Mortomes|Work has joined #openttd
08:17:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd
08:47:37 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
08:48:45 *** azaghal has joined #openttd
09:02:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:42:18 <norbert79> I wonder what might have caused the small explosion in the engine of the Quantas plane
09:47:54 <planetmaker> he. Just read that in the paper, too.
09:48:14 <planetmaker> But I guess there're people who're more keen on finding out than you and me - and then we'll know :-)
09:53:19 <planetmaker> hm, airdisaster.com doesn't know about it yet
09:55:07 *** V453000 is now known as Guest1872
10:07:38 <norbert79> yepp, checked that too
10:08:01 <norbert79> the event with the Heathrow 777 was also very interesting back in 2008
10:08:15 <norbert79> it turned out, that the fuel level got lower, because of the cold
10:08:23 <norbert79> and the fuel "shrunk"
10:47:38 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
11:10:52 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
11:20:07 *** Scuddles has joined #openttd
11:50:45 *** norbert79 has left #openttd
11:50:48 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
11:54:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Yexo
12:00:24 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
12:12:51 *** Chruker has joined #openttd
12:21:37 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
12:58:25 <dih> is there by any chance a java developer around?
12:58:44 * peter1138 hides from the mention of java
12:59:29 <dih> sometimes, depending though, a nice programming language too
12:59:38 <Belugas> peter1138, i've added a chorus pedal to my list as well :)
13:00:21 <Belugas> now... i'll have to be a very good husband and father if i want them both ^_^
13:00:55 <dih> you can do it, i am sure of that Belugas ^^
13:01:07 * Belugas is not so convinced of that...
13:05:18 * Belugas is sometimes a bad boy
13:05:27 <Belugas> but you already know that :)
13:05:45 <planetmaker> hey ho, Belugas you bad bad boy :-)
13:07:30 <planetmaker> back to the microphone!
13:07:32 * Belugas puts on his leather and studs belt
13:07:50 <Belugas> fits very well with my guitar strap!
13:17:23 <planetmaker> hm, I really love it, if people in their first posting state that implementing <whatever> "is easy to implement".
13:17:42 <norbert79> planetmaker: Oooh, wait, just got the perfect gift-website for ya :D
13:19:16 <planetmaker> Now, norbert79 , given that link I'm not sure what to expect... "We'll be back shortly"?
13:19:36 <norbert79> planetmaker: Damn... I thought it's up :D
13:19:41 <Belugas> if he has been a lurker for so many times, he would propably already know how to do it ;)
13:19:51 <Belugas> or the answer to his question...
13:25:40 *** norbert791 has joined #openttd
13:30:57 *** norbert79 has joined #openttd
13:31:30 <Terkhen> it is even better when they state an illogical reason as for why they think it is easy to implement
13:32:11 <glx> it's always easy for non-dev
13:32:53 <norbert79> Well, I can give you one: We have the automated train importing tols busted, which allowed us on-the-fly of scanning and creating sprite images from already existing trains. Now there is a modul in htis tool, and thats one got corrupted... Sorry
13:32:59 <Terkhen> "since I'm not going to do this, it must be easy"
13:33:49 <glx> and a very good reason for us to just discard it
13:33:59 <norbert79> Replace the word 'train' with 'truck' or anything else, works all the time :)
13:34:06 <planetmaker> that's true from a certain perspective: it's always easy (for me), if other people do the work _I_ want to see done ;-)
13:34:55 <planetmaker> the one variable often overlooked is: that attitude often causes a reverse motion :-P
13:38:46 <Belugas> note that the guy mentionned to add maglevs ON THAT set, not in Open itself
13:38:56 <Belugas> i just rewrote his port
13:39:35 <planetmaker> yes. And we all know that writing a newgrf with several trains is a task for one idle hour at most >:-D
13:40:46 <glx> if there are only action A it can be done in one hour
13:41:01 <planetmaker> including drawing? :-P
13:42:22 <planetmaker> hm... which actually gives me an idea for OpenGFX+Trains: activate railtype availability rail / mono / mglv via parameter...
13:42:55 <norbert79> planetmaker: Give it two for full-listing of all trains, including graphics
13:45:02 <norbert79> I know it's a bit older, but still would be interesting for some
13:49:49 <planetmaker> hm, 16bit RAW support is interesting
13:53:08 <planetmaker> it has been so far the show-stopper for gimp becoming usable for photo editing
13:59:18 <norbert79> planetmaker: Works like charm
13:59:28 <norbert79> I know, it's a plugin only, but works!
14:03:12 <norbert79> Belugas: I was just mentioning planetmaker the UFRaw plugin for GIMP for handling RAW formats all sort
14:03:28 <norbert79> And there is Raw Therapee also open sourced by now
14:03:32 <norbert79> and freely available
14:04:21 * Belugas will give it a try then :)
14:04:22 <norbert79> Ooh, UFRaw is available for all sort of OS-es too
14:04:54 <norbert79> tested using test-raw-s
14:06:26 <norbert79> There are always two plugins which I always install in my GIMP installs: Seperate plugin for CYMK support and UFRaw
14:07:04 <norbert79> (and under CYMK support I mean CYMK TIFF handling)
15:05:38 <Terkhen> hmmm... is there anyone who still uses the original map generator?
15:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a handful of extreme purists
15:07:47 <Terkhen> I guess they don't use the custom water level option either
15:08:56 <SmatZ> why? is the map full of water?
15:09:19 <Terkhen> worse, the map generation never ends
15:09:45 <Terkhen> I forgot that original map generation existed while coding that
15:12:58 <planetmaker> but yes, people still use that
15:19:23 <Terkhen> the percentages don't make much sense with the original map generator... I'm thinking about just scaling between the values assigned to very low and high settings
15:20:27 <Yexo> Terkhen: non-water map borders also broke the original map generator, the problem wasn't noticed until 0.7.0-beta1 came out
15:20:32 <Yexo> so yes, some people use it, but not many
15:22:16 <Terkhen> and I only noticed this because I wanted to do a very rough map for testing ships
15:23:22 <Terkhen> hmmm... or I can just disable that value from the dropdown and set it to another thing if the map generator is set to original
15:23:58 *** Adambean` has joined #openttd
15:26:28 <planetmaker> Wait for January... you'll get heaps of reports then ;-)
16:05:18 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
16:14:09 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:29:08 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
17:13:13 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:42:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r21079 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic numbers with already defined constant ("inspired" by Hirundo's work)
17:44:09 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:46:24 *** fjb is now known as Guest1916
17:47:02 <dih> uh - what i see there Belugas
17:47:20 <dih> i love the use of the workd 'inspired' :-D
17:49:07 <Ammler> Belugas: was that your yearly commit? ;-)
17:50:14 <Belugas> yeah, once a year, just to keep a reason to be around ;)
17:51:11 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
17:51:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:51:28 * Hirundo now has a good reason to write "inspiring" on his resume ;)
17:58:55 <Alberth> nice work Hirundo, we don't want to loose Belugas
18:16:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:19:25 *** last_evolution has joined #openttd
18:23:29 *** Sionide has joined #openttd
18:30:44 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
18:32:51 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
18:33:23 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
18:35:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21080 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp landscape.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix: Do not allow to use a custom water level with the original map generator.
18:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21081 /trunk/src/lang/ukrainian.txt:
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 4 changes by Madvin
18:53:24 *** AveiMil has joined #openttd
18:54:36 <AveiMil> Hello, just downloaded OpenTTD and I have some questions I couldnt find answered. For one I just started a new game, selected Medium difficulty first and it said 4 competitors will be added. Started a new game, but only my company is listed under the company button.
18:54:50 <AveiMil> How do I add the AI's to the game?
18:57:19 <SmatZ> AveiMil: competitors start after a timeout
18:57:26 <SmatZ> if you want to start an AI just now,
18:57:26 <planetmaker> you need to download some AIs. Use the content download for that
18:57:35 <SmatZ> open a console by ~ and type start_ai
18:57:58 <planetmaker> or by "^" or ` or ... ;-)
18:58:02 <AveiMil> so they come along after a few years?
18:58:11 <planetmaker> usually yes. If you have AIs installed
18:58:20 <planetmaker> New installs of OpenTTD come without AIs.
18:58:22 <AveiMil> there's no default AI?
18:58:38 <planetmaker> Or rather a dummy one which won't do much
18:59:48 <AveiMil> Which AI is recommended?
19:00:31 <Alberth> they are all different. try a few, and keep what you like
19:01:40 <Belugas> ice cream and coffee, thanks :)
19:02:12 <Alberth> SimpleAI PathZilla, and icecream and coffee
19:02:20 <Alberth> although I currently have tea
19:03:02 <Alberth> but I rarely play with AIs, so don't trust that choice too much :)
19:03:47 <Alberth> if you click them at the content download you get a short description
19:04:16 <AveiMil> Another thing that bothered me a little. I started a new game, and customized my company info.
19:04:18 <Alberth> also, there is a NoAI forum discussing the AIs
19:04:23 <AveiMil> But when i start a new game, that's all gone agian.
19:04:40 <AveiMil> Any way to save that info?
19:05:18 <Alberth> except for a few things, anything you set from within a game is for that game only
19:05:55 <Alberth> so to survive it, you'd have to set it from the main menu. However, I don't seem to know a way to set it :(
19:07:01 <AveiMil> Does the HQ serve any practical purpose?
19:07:05 <Terkhen> the only thing you can save from the company info is the manager face
19:07:21 <Terkhen> the HQ produces some passengers IIRC
19:34:05 <AveiMil> Do you always start with a Coal transport?
19:34:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21082 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r21080): Compilation error.
19:36:27 <frosch123> no, farms are also fine, because thay have "lots" of stuff
19:39:42 <AveiMil> Do you pay maintenance for the railway tracks?
19:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> maintenance for rail was discussed, but not implemented
19:42:47 <AveiMil> Does it matter how many blue squares are "touching" a coal mine? I have two coal mines fairly close, and if I build a long train station 2 squares will touch each coal mine. Is that equally effective as having all the squares touch the coal mine? (Blue squares as in coverage zone)
19:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> one square is enough
19:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> be aware of oil refineries, there it does matter ;)
19:46:01 <AveiMil> Oh? the more squares the better?
19:46:29 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
19:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely. but you'll figure that out on your own.
19:47:58 <AveiMil> Man all the signal types are a bit overwhelming now as a newbie.
19:48:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r21083 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Limit the number of exceptions in the refittable cargo list to 7 (Eddi)
19:48:51 <Belugas> cool...now, i'm good for at least 2 years
19:49:43 <frosch123> you can add a timespan to dorpsgek kban command
19:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*365*2+1
19:50:10 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2628001
19:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*(365*2+1)
19:50:16 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2631600
19:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*(365*2+1)*24
19:50:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 63158400
19:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i knew i missed something
19:51:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: (kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]) -- If you have the #channel,op capability, this will kickban <nick> for as many seconds as you specify, or else (if you specify 0 seconds or don't specify a number of seconds) it will ban the person indefinitely. --exact bans only the exact hostmask; --nick bans just the nick; --user bans just the user, and --host bans just the (1 more message)
19:52:45 <planetmaker> wooohooo. Belugas is in a commit-spree
19:54:24 <Belugas> stuff that i drag for like 2 weeks :)
19:54:35 <Belugas> it just happens that today is a bit quieter
19:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> more quiet probably ;)
19:55:23 * Belugas removes quieter from his dico
19:57:27 <andythenorth_> what's wrong with quieitieerr?
19:59:28 <frosch123> quieteer sounds militaristic
20:01:45 <andythenorth_> quieter will do
20:02:39 <Belugas> mmh... i've got one...
20:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you're an hour early :p
20:03:29 <Alberth> not to mention a whole day?
20:10:24 <AveiMil> How long did it take for you guys to understand the signal system?
20:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a bad question
20:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> we watched the signal system grow up
20:11:19 <AveiMil> this is confusing as hell :D
20:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the only signals you need are path signals
20:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the rightmost two signal types
20:12:15 <AveiMil> ah, so the other types are remnants of the past?
20:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they have a few niche uses
20:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but basically, yes. they are remnants from the past
20:14:44 <AveiMil> How do I delete signs?
20:15:00 <frosch123> click on them, and press delete?
20:15:21 <frosch123> (just a guess, never use signs)
20:15:45 <planetmaker> ctrl+click does the trick, too
20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> if you mean signals, use the 'r' key
20:15:51 <AveiMil> Ctrl click dosent seem to work.
20:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> signs are little pieces of text. do not confuse the two
20:19:00 <AveiMil> hmm, now I seem to be getting a message when trying to place Signals agian, "can't convert signals here", appears no matter where on the track I click.
20:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> unclick the "convert" button in the signal gui
20:21:03 <Alberth> frosch123: change the text to the empty string, actually
20:21:52 <frosch123> there is also a delete button (checked in the mean time)
20:27:43 <AveiMil> This is so amazing. Devs on this have done a wonderful job.
20:30:12 <AveiMil> Made my first signal railway system, yay. It wasent' so hard with the path signals.
20:30:59 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
20:54:59 <AveiMil> This game requires a lot of APM, dosen't it?
20:56:10 <frosch123> otoh, some patch it for ultra-slow mode to keep up with their APH
20:57:58 <AveiMil> APM = Actions Per Minute :)
20:58:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a unit from rts games
20:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 in 3 actions are pressing the F1 key ;)
20:59:05 <AveiMil> that's pause eh, can you do that in MP?
20:59:24 <frosch123> but i doubt anyone will compete :p
20:59:25 <AveiMil> So it's kind of like cheating when you do it in SP :)
20:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you also have the "build while paused" cheat ;)
21:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> finding the cheats is left as an easy exercise for the reader
21:01:02 <AveiMil> I've built one railway system with 2 trains, and basically not done anything else the last 4 years, but still I*m #2 on the company league table, lol.
21:01:10 <AveiMil> Somehow I think these AI's aren't too strong
21:01:28 <AveiMil> I don't want cheat codes anyway :)
21:01:46 *** Chris_Booth_ has joined #openttd
21:03:36 <AveiMil> On the company screen it says (Company 1) behind my company name, can that be removed? Also, my company worth is ony 1, does that update?
21:05:11 <Belugas> change the company name. yes it does update
21:05:58 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth
21:06:19 <AveiMil> The company name does not have (Company 1) in the text box.
21:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that can't be removed
21:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> afair it used to say "(Player n)" for human companies, and nothing for AI companies
21:08:40 <AveiMil> Ok, what affects the company value? Mine is static at 1
21:08:44 <AveiMil> The other companies update.
21:08:56 <Belugas> 'cause they make money?
21:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: assets plus bank balance minus bank loan
21:09:27 <AveiMil> are railway tracks assetts?
21:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but vehicles are
21:10:17 <AveiMil> (I'm probably gonna ask a lot more stupid questions=
21:10:33 <Belugas> can i ask a stupid one too?
21:10:50 <Belugas> are you aware there's a wiki on the game?
21:11:06 <AveiMil> yeah, I'm reading that as I go
21:11:14 <Belugas> granted it's not the best ever documentation around, but you might find some incredible infos :)
21:11:20 <AveiMil> but find it hard to find answers to some of these small detail questions though.
21:12:37 <AveiMil> The signal documentation was fairly good. But it should perhaps highlight that really you should only worry about the Path signals as a beginner.
21:13:43 <AveiMil> Time to read about subsidy
21:16:21 <AveiMil> I'm so glad I thought of this game and decided to google Transport Tycoon, I'm delighted OpenTTD exists.
21:17:16 <Alberth> You are aware of the fact that it is a wiki?
21:19:30 <Alberth> (10:12:57 PM) AveiMil: The signal documentation was fairly good. But it should perhaps highlight that really you should only worry about the Path signals as a beginner. <-- you can make that change
21:21:46 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1939
21:21:46 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
21:26:17 <AveiMil> I'm a bit confused on prototype viechles, when they are offered, are they offered for free? Or do I still have to purchase them for the regular amount?
21:27:12 <AveiMil> and when the final release is out, will mine be automatically udpated or will I still be huffing and puffing in the old prototypes until I update manually?
21:27:22 <Ammler> Rubidium: how do I see, if the openttd is compiled without icu?
21:27:31 <Ammler> I tried that but it seems not working
21:28:03 <Wolf01> any dev interested on a OTTDcon in Venice on Sep 2011?
21:28:06 <Alberth> AveiMil: the only change is that you can use the offered vehicles earlier than your competitors (if you have them :) )
21:28:09 *** SgobbiT has joined #openttd
21:28:28 <AveiMil> Hmm, ok, but the Wiki says "Vehicles are occasionally offered to your company as an exclusive prototype; these prototype versions will have lower reliability than the final release a year later. "
21:28:33 <Ammler> yes, icu is out but the issue stays
21:28:45 <AveiMil> so is the reliabilty of the train is improved automatically after that year?
21:29:27 <Alberth> yes, it changes just like normally, even during that first year
21:29:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: oh, then I solved the issue with printing those text direction characters without ICU differently
21:31:11 <Ammler> --with-icu="0" in the config.cache
21:32:05 <Rubidium> as I said, then I've fixed the "without ICU" problem differently
21:33:04 <Qantourisc> is it "safe" to convert normal rail to electric rail ?
21:33:42 <Ammler> just don't touch the tracks, if you install the wire
21:33:44 <Rubidium> even then, why does this break the chat bridge? Seems that the bridge is quite fragile in this case
21:33:56 <Qantourisc> Ammler: using the convert tool
21:34:06 <Ammler> we aren't able to remove the control char
21:35:22 <Rubidium> sounds like a lame programming language if that isn't supported
21:35:57 <Ammler> but it is still the only wrapper avaialable :-)
21:36:13 <AveiMil> How does the goods transport distance factor in how much money (income) you get from x tons of goods?
21:36:53 <Ammler> reverting your fix works but some don't like me patching the servers ;-)
21:37:23 <frosch123> anything special about venice in september?
21:42:42 <Rubidium> frosch123: maybe the milkshake machines of McDonalds work in september?
21:42:45 <dih> the char is noted i.e. when getting the byte or string lenght
21:42:58 <dih> and the first 'readable' char is then at position 1
21:43:23 <Ammler> is that now always the case?
21:43:27 <dih> however it seems impossible to address that very one char
21:43:45 <dih> like i said, you could replace the == 0 with == 1 ^^
21:43:59 <Ammler> yeah, that worked partially only
21:44:17 <Rubidium> just string replace it out
21:44:25 <dih> yes, because of the split
21:45:07 <dih> e.g. say we read "[All] foobar: hi"
21:45:26 <dih> [ is found at position 1, however reading position 0 from the string return [
21:45:34 <Qantourisc> replaceing with electric trains is costly !
21:45:48 <dih> tcl really sucks in that case
21:45:53 <Rubidium> dih: put sed in between or something?
21:46:19 <dih> or just let ap+ die and use a better language ^^
21:46:32 <dih> (yes, i consider java > tcl)
21:46:43 <planetmaker> dih: yes. But it's no immediate solution
21:47:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: maybe there is a better patch then reverting the whole fix?
21:47:20 <planetmaker> and you have to conceede, that the joan and grapes cannot yet completely replace ap+
21:47:29 <Rubidium> i.e. instead of starting "openttd" start "openttd | sed s/...//"
21:47:43 <dih> planetmaker, of course it cannot replace ap+ just yet
21:47:54 <planetmaker> but we run the servers just yet ;-)
21:48:07 <xiong> Is there any documentation for NARS rail vehicle length? They are not all 1/2 tile.
21:48:28 <Ammler> xiong: what does the readme say?
21:49:01 <dih> planetmaker, i am sure there is something you can do for ap+ to keep running
21:49:14 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
21:49:17 <dih> it still works fine on the current stable
21:49:24 <dih> and you run a patched nightly anyway
21:49:32 <Ammler> nah, it won't on 1.0.5
21:49:53 <dih> and you can try the pipe idea
21:50:32 <Rubidium> Ammler: revert the bits that add the actual characters, but then I *won't* guarantee the bug is fixed for your clients
21:50:37 <xiong> Ammler, Looked through it but maybe I missed something.
21:51:28 <dih> or instead of running the pipe from the side of ap+, wrap the call to openttd in a shell script which removes the nasty char
21:51:40 <dih> that way you will avoid tcl ever seeing that nasty char
21:51:47 <dih> and thus avoid tcl mucking up (yet again)
21:52:01 <Rubidium> didn't I suggest that like 5 minutes ago?
21:52:23 <dih> Rubidium, if the pipe is done inside tcl, it mike break that char again
21:52:25 <Ammler> or how do I find that?
21:52:30 <dih> hence the shell script outside of tcl
21:52:41 <xiong> Yah, Ammler; no readme in the tarball.
21:52:47 <Rubidium> if it's done inside tcl it is not *between* openttd and tcl
21:52:57 <planetmaker> xiong: and google is broken and offline, too, I assume
21:52:58 <Ammler> xiong: there is a pikkawiki or something
21:53:25 <dih> Rubidium, i mean, tcl starts ./openttd, even if tcl starts ./openttd | sed ...
21:53:53 <dih> chances are that it could muck up the char, if tcl starts ./script.sh, it does not see that char
21:53:56 <AveiMil> What is the varierty distribution game option?
21:53:59 <xiong> planetmaker, I have googled hard. Ammler, there is indeed a pikkawiki; it has few pages, apparently, and although engines are discussed in detail, even those do not have lengths listed.
21:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: it makes some parts of the map flat and other parts hilly
21:54:18 <Ammler> xiong: then ask in the forums thread
21:54:26 <dih> why would anybody google 'hard' :-P
21:54:45 <xiong> dih, Because googling easy didn't turn up the info.
21:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: image search with filter off?
21:55:06 <dih> Eddi|zuHause, that was the thought that kinda discusted me
21:55:09 <xiong> I followed all sorts of links into bitchy threads that were only tangentially related. No dope found.
21:56:26 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
21:56:42 <xiong> Ammler, I'll try that, if I can figure out which is the "real" NARS thread, more or less.
21:58:07 <Ammler> it should be quite on top
21:58:10 <Rubidium> Wolf01: what are your plans with such a conference?
21:59:48 <Wolf01> I don't have any plan but partecipate, other people asked me if I could ask if somebody of you may be interested on it
22:00:04 <xiong> Y'know, guys, just for the record: I have roughly a hundred browser tabs open to one TTD page or another. There's no call for suggesting I don't look. I may not know where to look and even if I do, I may not find.
22:00:39 <dih> Wolf01, someone is organizing a ottd conf?
22:00:58 <frosch123> Wolf01: you mean, it is already settled, and they want some star guests?
22:01:20 <xiong> I have so many pages open that Chrome is eating almost as much CPU as openttd itself.
22:02:16 <Wolf01> they want to replace the debian conference with an open source game conference
22:02:29 <Wolf01> and they seem to have chose ottd
22:02:59 <planetmaker> it's not April 1st ;-)
22:03:10 <dih> Wolf01, get the devs 'invited'
22:03:22 <dih> have one or 2 of them hold talks :-D
22:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> pay them their trip ;)
22:04:02 <Rubidium> there wasn't even a Venice bid for DebConf11
22:04:17 <Wolf01> just to talk about management of an open source game, the relation with the community...
22:04:48 <Wolf01> ehm, local conferences, not international ones :P
22:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> good luck finding ottd devs local to venice :p
22:06:00 <dih> Rubidium, you need a PR dev :-P
22:06:30 <frosch123> celestar might be nearest#+
22:06:41 <frosch123> bah, hitting three keys :s
22:07:05 <dih> how do you interact with the community - may i pick the nicks to be considered ? :-P
22:07:26 <Wolf01> ...and the con will end in a mega openttd lan party, cakes will be present
22:07:27 <Rubidium> promote Wolf01 as dev for a day :)
22:08:10 <Rubidium> maybe sponsor Belugas to come over? Probably needs two extra tickets though
22:08:26 <Wolf01> I'm already pressing him :P
22:09:39 *** TinoDid|znc has joined #openttd
22:10:05 <Rubidium> well, I've "almost" been in Venice this summer
22:10:28 <frosch123> was the french railway _that_ bad? :p
22:11:06 <Rubidium> no, the alternative was some night train to Venice IIRC
22:11:36 <Rubidium> and then I had to change *very* early (04:00-ish) in the morning, after entering the train quite late (12:00-ish)
22:12:12 <Rubidium> so, closest I can this summer was Genova
22:12:12 <avdg> not my first time to stand up that early to catch a train :)
22:12:43 *** TinoDid|znc is now known as TinoDidriksen
22:14:02 <Rubidium> avdg: but with a 24+ hour train ride I rather have a period where I can properly sleep
22:14:23 <avdg> I don't want to sleep on a train
22:14:35 <avdg> I didn't it too on an aircraft
22:14:47 <avdg> with a flight around 13 houres
22:15:26 <Rubidium> why wouldn't you want to sleep on a train if it takes more than 24 hours?
22:15:53 <Rubidium> black country side becomes boring pretty quickly
22:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can book sleeping cabins
22:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> we did that when i was a child. overnight train to the sea
22:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> starts at midnight, arrives around 6-ish
22:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> from Leipzig to Binz (Rügen)
22:19:27 <Rubidium> Luxembough-Nice starts around 20:00, arrives around 09:00 (if on schedule)
22:19:49 <Rubidium> it would actually go to Ventimiglia if Monaco wasn't such a mess
22:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know if these train connections still exist
22:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently train connection to venice is quite good. ~12:30
22:27:31 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
22:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Halle->Naumburg (local train) (0:40), Naumburg->München (ICE) (4:20), München->Venezia (EC) (6:40), with about 45min time in München
22:30:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: can't find a Munchen-Venice taking less than 7:09
22:30:43 <Rubidium> and there's a change of trains in Verona
22:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or overnight, 14:40: Halle->München (ICE) (4:45), München->Venezia (CNL) (7:40)
22:31:59 *** Keyboard_Warrior has joined #openttd
22:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> München Hbf Fr, 02.09.11 ab 11:31 EC 87 Eurocity Bordrestaurant
22:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Venezia Santa Lucia Fr, 02.09.11 an 18:10
22:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or: München Hbf Fr, 02.09.11 ab 21:02 CNL 363 City Night Line Reservierungspflicht, Fahrradmitnahme reservierungspflichtig, Fahrradmitnahme begrenzt möglich, in Sitzw. nur 2.Kl., Schlafwagen, Liegewagen, Imbiss und Getränke beim Schlaf-/Liegewagenbetreuer erhältlich, City Night Line
22:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Venezia Santa Lucia Sa, 03.09.11 an 06:38
22:33:10 <Rubidium> oh, you're looking almost a year in the future
22:33:20 * Rubidium was looking at tomorrow
22:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> he said sep 2011 ;)
22:33:56 <Rubidium> problem is that many trains aren't certain/known until 2-3 months before it's going to run
22:36:02 *** holyduck has joined #openttd
22:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow, there's a connection: Halle->Naumburg->München->Villach->Venezia (14:30)
22:36:37 <Rubidium> it'd be like 17:30 for me with basically two choices: arrive at 06:30 or arrive at 14:30
22:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and the one i gave earlier is still valid
22:37:43 <Rubidium> and that "route" isn't available for tomorrow, just one that's 2 hours shorter (and on a single day)
22:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine anything useful to do in Villach between 3:51 and 4:45
22:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but start would be 18:00 and arrival 8:34
22:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and it can't give me a price
22:41:52 <Wolf01> what about the aircraft? the conference will be next the airport
22:42:40 <planetmaker> eindhoven - pisa is available for about 50€
22:42:51 *** Keyboard_Warrior has quit IRC
22:42:56 <planetmaker> but pisa is not venice ;-)
22:42:58 <Wolf01> pisa is on the other side of Italy
22:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> LEJ-VCE seems to be 130 to 160€
22:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but you neve know if that is really the full price, or if they add taxes etc. later on
22:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and they make you switch in FRA
22:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and when you actually search for the flights, they get like 50% more expensive
22:55:42 <__ln__> how do i do something to each element of a list in python? there must be a simple way.
22:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> map(lambda:, list)
22:58:35 <glx> <@Rubidium> problem is that many trains aren't certain/known until 2-3 months before it's going to run <-- like lunea corail ;)
23:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably differs from country to country. e.g. in germany, it is known one year in advance on which platform the train will go, while in france, the platform is decided 20 minutes before the train will go [at least on big stations]
23:02:51 <Xaroth> in holland they can decide all they want, but the trains won't be there on time anyhow.
23:03:28 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: my reference was about the Luxembough-Nice train :)
23:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know that one
23:04:11 <glx> and IIRC it was less than 2-3 months before the start date
23:05:01 <glx> I searched the schedules for Rubidium ;)
23:08:01 <glx> not easy to find as they are not TGV
23:08:13 <glx> like everything that's not TGV indeed :)
23:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> SNCF doesn't list non-SNCF trains?
23:09:41 <glx> search engine is not their best stuff :)
23:39:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:52:45 *** Lurimax has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
