IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-10-27
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00:16:09 <Keiya_> SmatZ, no, I just have a shit connection
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06:00:08 <Yrol> Hello :o) How can i make it, without programming, that the game can be played very long, if not wihtout end? as an example, make a locomotive and some wagon appear at year 1 A.D. or soß
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09:36:38 <GIORDANO> Why did the first time playing openttd 32 bits. His car was not there at all?
09:36:54 <GIORDANO> can anyone help me ?
09:37:38 <GIORDANO> what happened with the car ?
09:37:47 <planetmaker> probably hit a tree
09:38:24 <planetmaker> but he/she/it was already here yesterday
09:39:25 <planetmaker> If you are not a bot, GIORDANO then please rephrase your question(s) such that they make sense at least remotely
09:40:19 <norbert79> GIORDANO: You write like a bot, thats the issue :)
09:40:43 <peter1138> Probably a web translator is involved, I guess.
09:40:51 <norbert79> Guess so... His name is 202.70.51.173 :D :D
09:40:58 <GIORDANO> available road vechiles was empty
09:41:05 <GIORDANO> not have a car in there
09:41:09 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Ah, when did you start your game?
09:41:22 <planetmaker> oh. Either your start date is too early or you removed newgrfs from a running game
09:41:40 <GIORDANO> i'm begin in 1950 when play the game
09:41:49 <norbert79> Do you use NEWGRFs?
09:41:57 <planetmaker> you modified your newgrfs, right? :-)
09:41:59 <norbert79> (try to use simple english)
09:42:13 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Do you use Original GRF or OpenGFX?
09:42:38 <GIORDANO> i download many additional pack, ext in forum >.<
09:42:52 <norbert79> Thats ok, but which do you use in your game?
09:43:35 <planetmaker> GIORDANO: a) try to not manually download stuff, but keep it to the things available via ingame online content
09:43:42 <planetmaker> b) base sets != newgrfs
09:44:11 <GIORDANO> where can i obtain : original GRF or OpenGFX ?
09:44:21 <planetmaker> c) IF you download stuff you need to put it into the correct folder
09:44:37 <planetmaker> GIORDANO: did you install OpenTTD using an installer?
09:45:04 <dihedral> planetmaker, i told you!
09:45:33 <GIORDANO> i download openttd in openttd.org website
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09:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest making a screenshot of what you think is wrong.
09:46:46 <planetmaker> I propose to upload the savegame also ;-)
09:47:39 <planetmaker> GIORDANO: If you have windows, please use the installer
09:48:27 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Yes, download Windows installer, that helps you!
09:48:34 <planetmaker> It'll install all required things
09:48:43 <dihedral> planetmaker, i told you, this is what you attract :-D
09:49:14 <norbert79> GIORDANO: For add-ons first try to download only one. If the addon is a TAR, don't extract, just move to "data"
09:49:22 <GIORDANO> do you have the complete file openttd that you have in place on a website? such as shared, megaupload, etc.
09:49:23 <norbert79> if it is working, download more
09:49:31 <GIORDANO> so i can download the complete like you have
09:49:55 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Ah, now someone has taken over. Well, I can offer you a complete pack, it might have some outdated GRF-s, if you wish :)
09:50:11 <norbert79> GIORDANO: It would work from that one directory, where you place it
09:50:54 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Do you use, Windows, Linux or MacOS?
09:51:05 <GIORDANO> i'm using windows xp
09:51:10 <norbert79> GIORDANO: 32 or 64 bit?
09:57:06 <norbert79> GIORDANO: I will have it uploaded onto megaupload... around 6-8 minutes required
09:58:37 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Btw you might find some older versions of some add-ons in the file, keep them for compatiblity issues on different servers
09:59:01 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Just extract the content to one directory, it will work from there, it's the latest 1.0.4
09:59:49 <norbert79> GIORDANO: One more thing: Some add-ons there are from different sources, like tt-forums, so not every add-on can be updated using the built in downloader
10:00:19 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Keep in mind, that this was just only for this one time :)
10:01:00 <norbert79> GIORDANO: So no additional support from my side about this ZIP, and will remove it, when you finished downloading ;-)
10:02:27 <GIORDANO> i will do it what you say :)
10:04:56 <Yexo> norbert79: you're wasting your time, tomorrow he'll be back with another broken savegame because he modified the newgrf config again
10:05:27 <norbert79> Yexo: Told him, that I won't give additional support, so from this point on, he is on his own :)
10:05:48 <Yexo> it doesn't work that way :p
10:05:57 <GIORDANO> of the morning, I unpacked here and there until dizzy. His car was not there as well.
10:06:09 <Yexo> the warning message in game told him his game would be broken if he continued to change the grf config
10:08:08 <norbert79> GIORDANO: Learn the game first, then experiment with the add-ons... Many add-ons (big ones) in my pack have documentations too... Read them!
10:08:33 <Yexo> ^^ either won't be understood or it'll be ignored
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10:23:58 <norbert79> planetmaker: Is it possible, that Last changed strings for german indeed shows 3475 entries?
10:24:46 <norbert79> planetmaker: Guess there is no possibility on setting time-range :)
10:25:03 <planetmaker> just start from first. It seems to go backwards in time
10:25:15 <planetmaker> But yes, I saw that there's A LOT of them
10:25:23 <norbert79> planetmaker: Anyway possible to get a full list from all entries? I rather would print it :)
10:25:32 <planetmaker> what all entries?
10:25:42 <planetmaker> german.lng in the source repo
10:26:15 <norbert79> I rather like keep such things in hard copy
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11:27:39 <norbert79> I just love megaupload kinda sites, where your IP counts only, not additional information and IP
11:36:26 <GIORDANO> i'm finish download ^.^
11:38:21 <norbert79> GIORDANO: You're welcome :)
11:41:00 <norbert79> Hah... OpenSuse divides itself off from Novell
11:43:33 <TrueBrain> GIORDANO: seriously ... can't you name yourself in less capitals? This is very annoying ..
11:45:00 <norbert79> What is wrong with it TRUEBRAIN? :]
11:45:45 <norbert79> Yeah, I though agree :)
11:59:38 <dihedral> i hope he is not from Hungary
12:01:20 <TrueBrain> there is where the CAPSLOCK people live?
12:02:32 * norbert79 seeks green forests, hunting down the so feared, small and peacuful living Capslock people
12:02:48 * norbert79 watches them hunting for bugs and deers, making fire, and preparing food
12:03:07 <norbert79> ooh, look, they are using modern WEAPONS for HUNTING
12:03:32 <norbert79> *This has been a Steve Irwin Show, with guest star, norbert79*
12:03:38 <norbert79> Thank you for watching
12:04:19 <dihedral> hungary is one of the countries where nodding and shaking your head has the opposite meaning
12:04:42 <norbert79> A bit to the south :)
12:05:28 <dihedral> had a hungarian worker come to the company for a few weeks.... tell ya, that was odd :-D
12:05:59 <TrueBrain> it is also very silly that we assosiate a certain movement with a feeling like that, and even a word
12:06:29 * dihedral points his middle finger :-D
12:07:16 <TrueBrain> me streches his right arm in front of him and puts his left arm on the top of his upper right arm
12:07:34 <norbert79> Thats more an italian thing to do ;-)
12:07:53 <norbert79> Whatever, often used in Europe :)
12:08:01 <TrueBrain> as far as I know, only belgium
12:08:19 <norbert79> Not really, we use this too
12:08:37 <norbert79> yet my imagination fails me sometimes...
12:09:12 <norbert79> Hey, we just try to be international, using communications of all form :D
12:09:37 <norbert79> So you guys can feel yourself home any time :D
12:11:38 <dihedral> just not too homely - which some certain people tend to feel around here
12:12:30 * TrueBrain puts on his pants .. guess that was a bit too rude
12:14:46 <norbert79> ...are there any women here with similar issues over here?... ...hello?... :)
12:15:41 <norbert79> hah, finally, Mr Caps Lock went
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13:01:45 <norbert79> Morning lugo, SmatZ
13:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody can confirm a bug for me? load alpine.grf, start a game in 1990-ish, and find a town with a stadium - the stadium has no sprites/it glitches
13:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there are apparently two kinds of stadiums, only one shows this glitch
13:19:55 * norbert79 wishes he could, sadly he has to sit in an open office space
13:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this is OpenTTD being overzealous with sanity checking, i don't think that glitch was there half a year ago
13:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't be certain
13:27:44 <planetmaker> probably wrongly-sized replacement house defined in that case
13:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but it should theoretically only re-activate temperate houses. not add any new ones
13:28:33 <Belugas> i read "pervert" instead of "revert"
13:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: also, i heard about a similar glitch with the "early houses" grf
13:28:52 <TrueBrain> Belugas: coffee for you,y es
13:29:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that also means re-defining it
13:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i tried that once... apparently the old code doesn't build well with a new compiler...
13:29:23 <TrueBrain> revert your compiler :D
13:29:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: then download an old stable
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13:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to work correctly in 1.0.4
13:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but -d grf=3 shows no errors...
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15:30:45 <xiong> There are Petrol Stations in 1850 with TTRS nightly. Bug or feature?
15:41:37 <xiong> Yes; probably one or the other.
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15:51:20 <xiong> Petrol, or gasoline as we like to call it on this side of the pond, was not an unknown product before the introduction of the internal combustion engine. It was an industrial and household solvent, available in hardware stores in small cans (tins).
15:52:20 <xiong> Stories are told of early motorists finding themselves in backward towns that had not yet innovated to the point of opening a gas station; running into a hardware store and buying several cans of gas for the car.
15:54:06 <xiong> Gasoline was not considered valuable back then; it was too volatile, too dangerous to use as lamp oil. Whale oil was preferred for the latter, although anything might be used by the poor, so long as it burned.
15:56:09 <xiong> So, I don't know about this feature. I saw 2 in one town, side by side. I guess these are not considered industries, even as much as Stores.
15:58:02 <Belugas> xiong, TTRS is not an attempt of reality representation. it's a fictional product and as such should be ratioanlized
15:58:13 <Belugas> like many thnigs in the game...
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15:58:51 <xiong> I'm not actually worried about this. I'm just taking a break from the tedium of drawing up a map plan.
15:59:32 <SmatZ> well, futuristic buildings aren't built in 1920 neither
15:59:47 <xiong> I have thrown in survey stakes every 16 tiles and drawn a grid map, located all the towns on it. Now, I'm working through the industries.
16:01:09 <xiong> When I'm finished, I will duplicate the industry layers onto goods layers, coded by production and acceptance. Finally, I will connect all the supply chains, on the plan. I expect that I will then know where my routes *should* go, rather than leaving it all up to improvisation.
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16:02:38 <xiong> Also, I have a new ethic for station building. Each 16x16 plot should, more or less, be covered by a single logical station. I'm going to avoid the messy, multiply-overlapping stations nightmare.
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16:42:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21044 /trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
16:42:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: XZ/LZMA2 savegame support. New default reduces savegame size by 10 to
16:42:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: 30% with slightly more CPU usage. With maximum settings it reduces savegame size
16:42:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: by 20 to 30%, but that takes 7 to 14 times longer. Map saving + downloading
16:42:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: takes, on average, 5% less.
16:49:12 * Belugas goe outside for a bit of fresh meat
16:49:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r21045 /trunk/projects/openttd_vs100.vcxproj: -Fix (r21044): MSVC 2010 projects
16:54:06 <frosch123> is it still that sunny in montreal?
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17:39:57 <Belugas> it's absolute clear blue sky, warm weather
17:40:17 <Belugas> and the scenery is quite nice :)
17:40:35 <Belugas> both human and building wise ;)
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17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21046 /trunk/src/lang/ (serbian.txt unfinished/frisian.txt):
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frisian - 45 changes by gjannema
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 1 changes by etran
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19:03:53 * frosch123 admires eddi's patience
19:05:02 <frosch123> though i doubt advertising of bananas and a14 will result in anything on ttms :p
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19:06:09 <frosch123> somehow that forum is like a dusty attic
19:34:31 <__ln__> Allure of the Seas departing tomorrow morning from here.
19:54:47 <planetmaker> "...Wallyweb Test Facility (WTF)..." <--- :D
19:56:01 <andythenorth_> but what does it all mean? :P
20:01:36 <SmatZ> planetmaker: that post braks page layout :(
20:02:19 <planetmaker> yes indeed. Long NFO code line
20:02:44 <SmatZ> wallyweb is a funny guy :)
20:03:24 <planetmaker> he has a nice sense of humor
20:03:42 <SmatZ> Lack-of Intelligence Agency Research Section (LIARS)
20:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a problem of the [code]-tag in general, not of the post...
20:03:58 <SmatZ> reminds me of my yesterday's searching for LIAR signature
20:04:05 <SmatZ> finding later it's RAIL backwards :p
20:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> [code]-tags should auto-insert horizontal scrollbars. i have seen this work in other forums...
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20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21047 /branches/1.0/src/ (18 files in 4 dirs):
20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Chat/console messages got sometimes messed up due to LTR names in RTL translations and vice-versa [FS#3746] (r21006, r21004)
20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Size of sort buttons for order and vehicle list gui could be too small (r20997)
20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] The X and Y offsets in the parameter for industry vars 60, 61, 62, 63 are unsigned instead of signed (r20996)
20:15:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Add: Knowledge about the existence of XZ/LZMA compressed savegames so loading those gives a proper error message (Yexo)
20:17:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21048 /branches/1.0/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
20:17:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
20:17:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: Make it possible to make .tar.xz bundles (r21042)
20:17:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not let the resize button go past the bottom of the screen [FS#4176] (r21015)
20:17:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: The detailed performance rating window could be too narrow [FS#4102] (r21010)
20:18:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: For the compact notation 1.000.000k and 1.000M would be shown depending on the initial (and later rounded) value. Make everything that would round to 1.000.000k be drawn as 1.000M as well (r21009)
20:18:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not consider the text direction character when searching for missing glyphs (r21007)
20:21:17 <dihedral> so there will be another 1.0.x release ^^
20:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they're just making backports for fun
20:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> to get more experience
20:23:16 <Belugas> oops... did i say that?
20:23:32 <Belugas> damned... blew the secret away:(
20:24:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21049 /branches/1.0/src/lang/ (41 files in 2 dirs): [1.0] -Backport: loads of strings
20:25:02 <Terkhen> I thought we were going to jump directly to 3.0.0 to make everyone wonder were did 2.x.x went
20:25:45 <dihedral> so they they have a bit more to wonder
20:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the java way... just remove the 1. from the start of the version ;)
20:26:07 <Alberth> we should use a random version number each time :)
20:26:12 <SmatZ> sounds like nvidia drivers versioning
20:26:30 <SpComb> or the tuomov way, stop doing releases
20:26:40 <TrueBrain> force everyone in nightlies
20:26:45 <Terkhen> we should release a broken nightly with a ridiculously high version number
20:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: we'd get complaints that we're just copying TTDPatch again...
20:27:04 <TrueBrain> or make a release every 2 weeks!
20:27:40 <Rubidium> you mean the wine equivalent of nightlies?
20:27:55 <Rubidium> then by all means go to weekly, like Linus does
20:28:54 <planetmaker> no nightlies for linux?
20:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no... it's called "Kernel of the Day"
20:29:22 <TrueBrain> Wine releases every 2 weeks, not?
20:29:25 <TrueBrain> I was refering to that :)
20:29:37 <frosch123> [22:26] <Eddi|zuHause> the java way... just remove the 1. from the start of the version ;) <- java did that too? so it is more like a "sun"-way...
20:29:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: it releases a development snapshot every 2 weeks, yes
20:29:48 <TrueBrain> yeah, we should do that :p
20:30:42 <Rubidium> we already do so, but 14 times as fast
20:30:53 <dihedral> actually java calls one version with to version numbers, 1.6 = 6 :-P
20:31:24 <Alberth> depends on whether you are a developer or a manager :p
20:31:32 <Rubidium> dihedral: likewise, 6.1 = 7
20:32:21 <SmatZ> yeah, chrome needs to get to version ~10 quick
20:32:30 <SmatZ> so they don't look outdated compared to IE and opera
20:32:33 <frosch123> hmm, btw... why does std::istream::getline only take char* and not std::stream :o
20:32:41 <frosch123> (sorry for off-topic)
20:33:05 <frosch123> s/std::stream/std::string/
20:33:21 <SmatZ> because char* is superior to std:string
20:33:54 <Rubidium> because a string already is a line?
20:34:02 <dihedral> Rubidium, likewise 1.7 = 7, i do not see how you get 6.1 to 7 to be "likewise" to 1.6 = 6
20:34:39 <Rubidium> dihedral: Windows 7 = 6.1. Obviously you haven't been following this channel enough...
20:34:42 <frosch123> ah, there is string::getline
20:35:05 <frosch123> no, it is a global function, no member
20:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> quick question: does openttd prefer a grf with action14-version over a grf without when loading compatible grf?
20:47:23 * Belugas toes a dime in the air
20:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have a bug-ish... when newgrf_developer_tools is on, you can do "reload_newgrfs" but not "help reload_newgrfs"
20:48:10 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if the version isn't 0, then it should. Except when min_load_version set to anything other than 0
20:48:12 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, except if the version is 0
20:48:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you also need to set an appropriate MINV, which best for your case probably should be 0
20:48:59 <planetmaker> (as I wrote at tt-ms)
20:52:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21050 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp console_internal.h): -Fix (r20515): ignore underscores as well for help messages
20:53:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you're using a too old nightly :)
20:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm pretty sure i compiled at least yesterday ;)
20:54:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: even doing it 3 minutes ago would've given you a too old nightly
20:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but there is no newer nightly since 3 minutes ago :p
20:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or... almost 3 hours ago
20:56:36 <Rubidium> well... the nightly will still be too old for the next ~19:40 hours :)
20:59:39 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i guess he tried to change the grf in the newgrf settings of the load-game preview
21:00:27 <frosch123> the bullets are blue, not green
21:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: aha. so is there a reason why that's forbidden?
21:00:56 <frosch123> question to the rest: is that an interface problem? does the gui suggest that you should be able to do that?
21:01:25 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it is not coded, and not straight forward to do
21:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd kinda make sense to be able to fix things before loading the file
21:01:50 <frosch123> you would need to store the configuration and then ignore the configuration from the file when actually loading the game
21:02:01 <frosch123> but it "could" be done
21:02:10 <Rubidium> that's why I suggested to remove all traces of buttons related to configurability from the load preview
21:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, so it's "just" non-trivial
21:02:59 <frosch123> or what rb said. you could also hide "available grfs" for savegame preview, server-preview,....
21:10:29 <planetmaker> err... bye Belugas
21:11:51 <planetmaker> good night andythenorth_ and all others, too
21:12:19 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker
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21:26:53 <GIORDANO> what's the difference between Stable 1.0.4 and Nightly r21046 ?
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21:30:19 <GIORDANO> why after extract nightly into stable directory. when to play a new game have no one vechiles in nightly ?
21:32:19 <GIORDANO> how you install stable and nighty ?
21:32:25 <dihedral> why when nightly you not own directory extract
21:34:27 <Rubidium> dihedral: like Yoda speak you failed
21:38:10 <GIORDANO> First of all I installed TTD TTD Deluxe Deluxe ins folder. Stable after that I installed in folder OpenTTD. Then I override Nightly in folder OpenTTD. Is this true?
21:39:05 <GIORDANO> replace nightly in folder openttd right ?
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21:56:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21051 /trunk/os/debian/rules:
21:56:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: [Debian] Silence "uselessly linked" warning
21:56:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change: [Debian] Use make install "parameters" to not install some files instead of removing them after installation
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