IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-10-05
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00:41:56 <TruePikachu> You know what - I hate GIMP right now
00:42:16 * TruePikachu goes to start OpenTTD in order to screenshot the junction after it's built there
00:42:45 <GhostlyDeath> I thought of a new gamemode
00:42:57 <GhostlyDeath> Basically, you have infinite value
00:43:14 <GhostlyDeath> infinite money, and your company rating is based on the cost of enemy vehicles you destroy
00:43:41 <GhostlyDeath> And the amount of vulnerable vehicles
00:46:09 <GhostlyDeath> I magic bulldozed a town ehhehehe
00:48:31 <TruePikachu> And the point would be...
00:50:25 <GhostlyDeath> It's population is zero
00:50:30 <GhostlyDeath> and now the entire landscape is water
00:50:45 <TruePikachu> I was meaning about the gamemode
00:51:42 <GhostlyDeath> but every industry and town is it's own island heh
00:52:39 <TruePikachu> So? Now try using ships WITHOUT losing as much money as you lost in the oil business
00:53:37 <avdg> planes that can carry oil?
00:53:40 <GhostlyDeath> Heh, the entire map is water
00:53:55 <TruePikachu> avdg: See Pikka's av8tors
00:53:58 <GhostlyDeath> A town with population of zero built a road on the sea
00:54:49 <TruePikachu> Uhh...how would that work? Road tiles can not be at sea level if it will flood
00:54:50 <GhostlyDeath> wow tress grow out of nothing
00:55:19 <GhostlyDeath> Heh, funded each town now
00:55:43 * TruePikachu continues work on the uberstation
00:55:57 <GhostlyDeath> Rindington is a town with zero population and 1 road with sidewalks and streetlights
00:56:51 <TruePikachu> :( current game has NO good place for uberstation
00:57:52 <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath: I once had a town which was just a small 3x3 square of road surrounded by buildings
00:58:57 <GhostlyDeath> I built a road along a bunch of adjacent tacks
00:59:03 <GhostlyDeath> tracks* will be very very fun'
01:00:13 <GhostlyDeath> is there a way to destroy a train station without destroying every single one in a linked station and rebuilding even if they aren't connected?
01:01:57 <GhostlyDeath> Can I remove railroad crossings?
01:04:22 <avdg> what for railroad crossing?
01:10:58 <GhostlyDeath> can 25 MPS Regal Buses make it past 14 railroad tracks?
01:11:02 <GhostlyDeath> hahahahahhahahahhaha
01:11:24 <LaSeandre> GhostlyDeath: train stations: go into the railway menu, then click on the station building icon, then the bulldozer.
01:15:02 <GhostlyDeath> hahah, lost a bus, some barely miss the 90mph train
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01:16:11 <GhostlyDeath> two buses made it back first run
01:16:45 <GhostlyDeath> A train took out 3 buses in a row
01:24:52 <GhostlyDeath> not many road vehicles left
01:32:18 <TruePikachu> GhostlyDeath RE train stations: Bulldozer
01:32:31 <GhostlyDeath> Heh, trains can crash in a station
01:32:51 <GhostlyDeath> While two are inside, force both to go disregarding the signal and then set all trains to go
01:39:34 <Carci> Could someone remind me where I need to look to change which newspaper notices I see? >.>
01:53:45 <TruePikachu> Carci: HOLD the LMB on the rightmost icon on the toolbar
01:54:14 <TruePikachu> One of those menu options
01:59:45 <Carci> I was looking under 'advanced options' from the main menu.
02:00:32 <TruePikachu> Lol, that's where I would have looked had I not known where to look - the dialogs are similar
02:00:46 <TruePikachu> Wait - main menu?!
02:01:01 * TruePikachu has never seen a newspaper appear on the main menu
02:05:36 <TruePikachu> Lol, I was just typing Ctrl+Shift+F1
02:06:05 <TruePikachu> That's funny because I was trying to type Ctrl+ALT+F1 to switch TTYs
02:06:25 <TruePikachu> Ctrl+Shift+F1 made KDE do some funky thing
02:06:39 <TruePikachu> I had to kill it, as well as my game of OpenTTD
02:07:04 <TruePikachu> At least I saved :D
02:12:00 <TruePikachu> ? Ctrl+Shift+F1 isn't one of KDE's shortcuts
02:12:18 * TruePikachu wonders what it is for
02:12:43 <TruePikachu> And why it was listening when OTTD had focus
02:16:29 <TruePikachu> :( Firefox Sync failed
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02:43:00 <Carci> Anyone have any recommendations for a road vehicle set to go with the North American renewal set?
03:09:57 <TruePikachu> Carci: extended something or other
03:10:03 <TruePikachu> I forget the exact name
03:10:55 <TruePikachu> ^^ that, according to config
03:11:25 <TruePikachu> Extended Generic Road Vehical and Tram Set - has even from the 1800s
03:11:59 * TruePikachu is in America, so he uses these GRFs all the time
03:12:23 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian is also here in America
03:13:39 <TruePikachu> Carci: Remember to enable regearing for NARSv2 - disabling disables all regearable locomotives
03:13:56 <TruePikachu> I learned that the hard way
03:15:01 <TruePikachu> You may also want to remember some other things, like how PAX cars reduce HP, or when a caboose is required
03:15:46 <TruePikachu> Also, don't use the ECS Construction vector unless you want to regear your locomotives with limestone / mine for regearings
03:16:21 <TruePikachu> See WallyWeb's posts on the Forum in the NARSv2 thread - they are hilarious
03:16:59 <TruePikachu> (bug reports, that is)
03:17:42 <Carci> Maybe I shouldn't use this set. I'm confussled >.>
03:24:23 <TruePikachu> Carci: You'll get used to it. I was confused at first, but I use it all the time now
03:24:43 <Carci> So what patches/newgrfs do I need to have on? >.>
03:25:27 <TruePikachu> I doubt that NARSv2 is dependant on anything really, but you may want to follow PikkaBird's reccomendations about mass and stuff
03:26:20 <TruePikachu> note: when I said not dependant, I ment patches/NewGRFs, of course you need the game ;)
03:27:57 <Carci> What does regearing do, and what are PAX cars? >.>
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04:51:43 <TruePikachu> Carci: regearing changes max speed at the cost of tractive effort
04:51:52 <TruePikachu> Carci: PAX cars are passenger cars
04:55:47 <TruePikachu> Sorry for late replies; going back and forth between tasks
04:56:17 <TruePikachu> Besides, I don't want to duplicate this SCREEN session to get IRC over at the other end of the house
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04:56:36 <TruePikachu> It would be limited to 80x25
04:57:10 <TruePikachu> All this is in the PikkaWiki
04:57:22 <TruePikachu> If you need help, you may want to look there
04:57:33 <TruePikachu> I'm going to have to go to bed soon
04:59:32 <TruePikachu> HOWever, I'll give you the link to the main part of PikkaWiki you'll want to look at
04:59:52 <TruePikachu> ^^ is what I would say if I could c/p from a console ;)
05:00:47 <TruePikachu> However, it should be near the top of >> google.com/search?q=PikkaWiki+NARS <<
05:01:13 <TruePikachu> And, like I said, you will need to get a feel for the set
05:02:11 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian introduced me to the set; you may want to ask him questions about it in the short pulses of time that he's on
05:02:51 <TruePikachu> And don't forget that there is a thread on the forum somewhere about NARSv2, so feel free to ask there too
05:03:15 <Carci> Erfff, started off thinking too big... now I don't have enough money to finish my lines :/
05:03:17 <TruePikachu> And it's 10 PM here, and I need to get to bed earlier than I have been
05:04:10 <TruePikachu> NARS is a bit more expensive; I raised max loan to $1,000,000 == 500,000 BASE
05:04:46 <Carci> Oh no, I'm not playing NARS right now >.>
05:05:11 <Carci> I jumped into some multiplayer server. >.>
05:05:23 <Carci> And saw "Oooh, look I could make a connection from here to here, and do this and this..."
05:05:42 <TruePikachu> That is one thing you should NOT rush - get a moneymaker set up
05:06:26 <Carci> Yeah, well... I'm floundering now :<
05:06:34 <Carci> I've got just BARelY a positive income from the bus system I made.
05:06:44 <Carci> And one train running to a really low-production farm >.>
05:06:49 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...try coal trucks
05:07:12 <TruePikachu> Look around for coal near a power plant
05:07:38 <Carci> Hmm, here's one.. wonder if I have enough money to make the connection.
05:07:48 <TruePikachu> Knall: Cheaper than trains
05:08:26 <TruePikachu> Tells you a cost estimate
05:08:49 <TruePikachu> When terraforming around water, it will over-estimate
05:09:05 <Carci> $43,000 just for hte road. o.o
05:09:27 <Carci> And it's only like 40 tiles long
05:09:30 <TruePikachu> But trains will nick you
05:09:56 <Carci> They must have HUGE slopes turned on or something
05:10:08 <Carci> I go up ONE slope tile and my DAH goes from 75mph to 20
05:10:10 <TruePikachu> That is only possible through patch
05:10:42 <Carci> It's only got two livestock cars attached
05:11:00 <Carci> Don't have money for more HP
05:11:15 <TruePikachu> <==<==<==\/\/ <- 3x loco for 2 livestock :D
05:11:39 <TruePikachu> Or, for more realism, <====>\/\/<==
05:11:40 <Carci> I don't have money for it! D:
05:12:00 <TruePikachu> Hmm...well, slopes can usually be avoided
05:12:10 <TruePikachu> To some degree at least
05:12:16 <Knall> sounds like a really crazy difficulty level you are playing this on :D
05:12:34 <Carci> How do I close my company and try starting over? >.>
05:12:41 <TruePikachu> Carci: Remember, you can always do a different server
05:12:54 <Carci> Can I delete my company somehow? >.>
05:12:56 <TruePikachu> Carci: Only server op can do that; recent forum thread
05:13:16 <Carci> I guess I COULD also just turn nonsense orders on, use up the rest of my money, and let my company go into the red.
05:13:39 <TruePikachu> OR you could just leave, and see if later someone picks it up and makes it rich
05:13:47 <Knall> Carci: on which server are you playing?
05:16:12 <TruePikachu> Because of the -a
05:18:16 <Carci> Most of the company names look englishish though, and the server list says it's an 'any language' server
05:19:02 <Carci> They're using the 'original' model for train speed. That's probably why?
05:19:42 <Knall> maybe, the original model slows your trains much more down
05:20:53 <Knall> i whink the loco you are using is best for passenger transport, maybe use another, stronger one?
05:21:25 <Carci> Oooh, max loan shot up. I can do that now!
05:25:06 <Knall> i think your loco can be used to transport cattle too
05:27:32 <Knall> you should also try to transport grain too
05:30:39 <Carci> Yeah, I can refit it for $40,000 to fit 4 livestock in the train. Not worth it xD
05:31:57 <Carci> Also... my bus's timetables aren't working like the page said they should :/
05:35:01 <Knall> hmm i dont use busses really often (they are a waste of money imho), i never used the timetables
05:35:17 <Carci> Okay, I really, really hate the original acceleration method.
05:35:31 <Carci> I've got the most powerful diesel engine now, and it STILL dies going up the little tiny hill.
05:36:15 <Carci> 4,500 hp, six carts attached, max speed of 125mph, and the second it hits a one slope hill, it goes down to 20mph from 125.
05:36:41 <Carci> Okay, I'm bankrupting myself and getting out. I can't do this >.>
05:37:01 <Carci> Delete conecting routes...
05:37:15 <Carci> And demolish as much stuff as I can.
05:39:20 <Knall> i think there is a console command to close your company
05:40:00 <Carci> Wow, it's sad... these people have no concept of signaling even.
05:40:13 <Carci> They've got stretches of track that are like 50 pieces long, with no signals along them.
05:40:20 <Carci> Only at the junctions...
05:40:43 <Carci> Whoever light blue is in this map.
05:46:18 <Carci> What does "NoBrk" mean?
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05:47:12 <Carci> I dunno. This server's labled "Africa & Middle East (Pause, NoBrk)" o.o
05:47:20 <Carci> Heh, I'll just be quiet and quit buggin' >.>
05:47:29 <Knall> no break until arriving this station?
05:48:55 <Knall> your poor train still tries to get to haninghead :D
05:50:32 <Carci> Are you watching that server? xD
05:54:22 <Carci> Okay, tryin' new server.
05:54:56 <Carci> Blah, they're using the 'original' model too...
05:54:59 <Carci> Completely KILLS me. :/
06:13:30 <Carci> Heheh, got a much better start on this server.
06:15:00 <Carci> Seriously though... original acceleration SUCKS. D:
06:19:24 <Knall> i dont like it too, but its always possible to avoid these servers :D
06:26:44 <Carci> True, but that'll take looking for a server people are playing on, that DOESN'T have it. :P
06:28:53 <Carci> You should look at the one I've got set up now. MaxNET server 24/7 :P
06:29:03 <Carci> Got a nice little foothold in there. ^^
06:30:55 <Knall> nice. coal is much more lucrative than cattle and passengers :D
06:31:52 <Carci> It's a two-way coal setup too. See that? :D
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06:32:20 <Carci> Just set up a looong airport loop too. ^^
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06:34:37 <Carci> I need to find a way to sabotage red. :D
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06:38:30 <Carci> I think once I pull in enough money, I'm gonna lay two mainlines down the middle of the thing, lengthwise...
06:38:54 <Carci> One of them on a loop for gathering in livestock/grain and bringing them to factories I find on the outside edges, the other for transporting goods from those factories to cities.
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07:04:57 <Carci> There are sooo many farms in this map. I have GOT to capitalize on this >.>
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07:05:19 <dihedral> the game has a chat function
07:05:29 <dihedral> please please please use that instead of flooding this channel
07:06:07 <dihedral> and before you ask where that is - have a look at wiki.openttd.org
07:06:25 <Carci> Okay okay, I'll be quiet. :o
07:07:28 <dihedral> some servers do have their own irc channel, you might like to join that, in case the server you are playing one has a own channel that is
07:07:35 <dihedral> or simply create your own
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08:05:18 <planetmaker> Fugas: you shouldn't login as admin, if not needed ;-)
08:10:14 <dihedral> he just left the channel :-D
08:10:34 <planetmaker> well. He obviously has to logout and login again. At least ;-)
08:11:38 <dihedral> no, he just left /this/ channel
08:12:10 <dihedral> i do not think he quite got what you meant :-P
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11:43:24 <Pulec> omfg i hate sawmill sound in opensfx
11:43:37 <Pulec> i rather listen to some white noise
11:43:57 <planetmaker> make or propose a better one
11:44:07 <planetmaker> you know... it's _open_SFX
11:44:32 <Pulec> i didnt really realise that
11:44:51 <Pulec> nor I searched disscusion about it
11:45:11 <Pulec> i have Sawmill about 30m to my house
11:45:27 <planetmaker> then make a good midi recording and off you go
11:45:52 <Pulec> lol i can only record it from htc dream
11:56:07 <Pulec> teragenessis makes no mountains
11:58:37 <dihedral> Pulec, might be possible to convert it ;-)
11:58:57 * peter1138 mumbles about TGP's non-standard perlin noise method...
12:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Pulec> teragenessis makes no mountains <-- TGP has some weird function to make mountain-tops extra flat, because of the lack of heightlevels...
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13:01:52 <dihedral> __ln___, your tail is growing ^^
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13:35:57 <Fixed> hello, 1 question - why autorenew (for aging vehicles when no upgrades are available) option is deep inside in the advanced settings, is there any way to make it more obvious (for a new users (like me), or make it ON by default?
13:38:32 <planetmaker> What would be an obvious and logical place?
13:39:55 <Belugas> well... since it's a behaviour that i introduced, and not a default that can be turned on, it make sens taht it's not on by default. Second, you may think this option should be made more visible. But waht to answer to everyone else who who lijek to have another seting more visible?
13:40:08 <Belugas> the settings will become like a christmas tree
13:40:31 <Belugas> .... that IS introduced.... not I introduced...
13:40:55 <Belugas> god... i really need more coffee
13:42:57 <Fixed> Belugas: thank you, really useful
13:43:35 <planetmaker> Belugas: why...? New features IMHO could be on by default - if they really enhance gameplay in a meaningful way.
13:43:59 <__ln___> is there already (no, i don't honestly believe so) a possibility to set the so-called "TTDPatch-style non-stop handling" per train, not globally?
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13:45:33 <Belugas> i don't agree, planetmaker. To me (and this only implies me), if you add somehting to the game, it's up to the user to set it to on. Because it does change the game in a way that might not be wanted by those who receive the update with the new feature and they'll have to turn it off to get rid of it
13:45:34 <planetmaker> Fixed: that screenshot IMHO has one problem: you can set the renew-lead-time (the time before / after it is too old).
13:45:40 <planetmaker> Then people would wonder about that...
13:46:08 <Belugas> plus, that screen shot shows the in order to hold the options, it has to be streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetched
13:46:08 <planetmaker> Belugas: sure. But there are (already) a lot of enhancements which DO change the game - but to a better
13:46:29 <planetmaker> like engine pools and such. They're on by default
13:46:46 <Fixed> planetmaker: but i think we still need some default way of managing old vehicles when no more upgrades are available
13:46:57 <Belugas> as far as i know, engine pool does not change behaviour, just new capacity
13:47:02 <planetmaker> Fixed: well. Replace them :-)
13:47:05 <planetmaker> that's autoreplace
13:47:12 <planetmaker> as opposed to autorenew
13:47:35 <Fixed> planetmaker: wait a second... autorenew means ugrading?
13:47:39 <planetmaker> Belugas: yes and no. Maybe bad example
13:47:52 <planetmaker> Fixed: autoreplace means replacing by another engine / wagon type
13:48:01 <planetmaker> autorenew means to just buy a new version of the same
13:48:21 <planetmaker> the latter might not be possible at a certain point
13:48:23 <Belugas> [09:42] <Fixed> Belugas: thank you, really useful <--- next time you ask for an opinion, get ready to have opinions that are not the same as you.
13:48:44 <Fixed> planetmaker: i was talking about rebuying the same version when it gets old
13:49:10 <planetmaker> Belugas: there are other settings which deviate. I don't yet quite recall, but there are. E.g., I think, the behaviour of some signal settings
13:49:19 <planetmaker> Fixed: yes, I know :-)
13:49:54 <Fixed> i faced problem like that and i just don't where to go, u need to look over 100 options vlabla or go to wiki bla because there's no simple button ingame to do that
13:49:57 <planetmaker> and you probably have some point that it should become better accessible
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13:50:23 <planetmaker> But going through all those settings 'just' requires you to read through the adv. settings once ;-)
13:51:05 <Fixed> it 's not the problem for me but maybe other people don't want to do that but want to has accesible option in-game
13:51:21 <planetmaker> it's also 'ingame' ;-)
13:51:31 <planetmaker> but as said: yes, it would make sense
13:51:32 <Fixed> yes... more deeply in menus %)
13:51:52 <planetmaker> Probably the whole thing autorenew / autoreplace could need some re-consideration on how it works
13:52:03 <planetmaker> But... *someone* needs to do that
13:52:15 <planetmaker> if you can code... try :-)
13:52:31 <Fixed> another way - you just opening autorenew menu and it has nice button autorenew (for selected group) when aging... that's it no more rocket science
13:52:53 <Fixed> i play it in another language
13:52:57 <planetmaker> autorenew / autoreplace could - IMHO - be easily unified in one window
13:53:20 <planetmaker> and then allow also to replace a whole vehicle chain by something else.
13:53:40 <planetmaker> like "replace all trains who look like XXX by YYY"
13:53:54 <planetmaker> which means to not replace all engines, but only those of selected subset of trains
13:54:02 <planetmaker> But that's A LOT of work
13:54:30 <Fixed> better to do it by steps
13:56:50 <planetmaker> Fixed: yes, in steps. But reworking this GUI is certainly more steps. But just adding this autorenew to the existing GUI is not a step in that direction.
14:03:17 <Rubidium> planetmaker: OpenSFX doesn't have a MIDI requirement, only a "plain WAVE file" requirement
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14:20:45 <Pulec> i can have bigger fonts by chaning small_font = 10 ?
14:24:01 <Pulec> no acutally i changed just small size
14:24:49 <Pulec> freetype reported error 0x1
14:24:56 <Pulec> using sprite font instead
14:25:05 <Pulec> so i need to get special font to display in 10 size?
14:25:17 <peter1138> wrong config option
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14:25:39 <peter1138> should be 'small_size = 10'
14:25:57 <peter1138> you do, however, need to specify a font that freetype can open for small_font
14:26:25 <peter1138> Tahoma Bold works quite well, IIRC...
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17:07:46 <frogmellaa> hello, is there a polish language in this game?
17:08:38 <planetmaker> exactly one actully.
17:08:57 <frogmellaa> thanks, i'll try this game, i hope it is great :)
17:09:12 <planetmaker> you won't hear differently in this channel. Most likely ;-)
17:10:25 <frogmellaa> i heard that you can play online, is it actually fun? ;)
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17:12:12 <planetmaker> that depends upon your personal taste and the server you join
17:13:44 <planetmaker> evenink Alberth :-)
17:15:15 <planetmaker> wasn't it HELO all?
17:15:38 <planetmaker> HELO frosch123 in any case ;-)
17:17:18 <Alberth> planetmaker: wasn't that for the SMTP protocol?
17:18:45 <Alberth> planetmaker: 'the PF code is just in the process of being ported from C to C++' is a bit too optimistic, I was just refactoring some old 'pointer to C function' code :)
17:20:01 <planetmaker> I didn't read carefully the commits... I just saw you doing *some* refactoring...
17:21:15 <planetmaker> but I gather it's still a small step in that direction ;-)
17:21:40 * frosch123 ponders poking planetmaker and terkhen
17:22:14 * planetmaker pokes Alberth though... Rb said you had been working on a14 support for min newgrf version support for newgrfs
17:22:17 <planetmaker> what's the status?
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17:23:05 * Alberth is surprised he is working on that :)
17:23:21 <planetmaker> was it maybe frosch123 rather? ^
17:23:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, he has been working on the gui stuff
17:23:59 <planetmaker> ah, didn't read it that way.
17:24:00 <Alberth> you mean until frosch123 wanted a 'change stuff' button ?
17:24:39 * Alberth wonders about the status of that button
17:24:50 <planetmaker> (I somehow always have the mental image of someone tickling me when using the word 'poke')
17:25:38 <frosch123> hmm, not obvious? translate! :p
17:26:24 <frosch123> though i fail to follow the rest of the discussion :p
17:26:54 <frosch123> i guess albert refers to the toggle button for the newgrf gui
17:27:39 <planetmaker> also done & thanks :-)
17:28:31 <planetmaker> frosch123: at least I'm talking about min_compatible_version for newgrfs.
17:28:45 <planetmaker> and that could easily be related :-)
17:29:24 <frosch123> well, "toggle button" means to hide the "available grfs" list and associated buttons for server list and savegame preview and ingame
17:29:41 <frosch123> while showing a "edit" button ingame which extents the gui to the current one
17:30:10 <Alberth> I got that, but 'which extends the gui' is the scary part :)
17:30:11 <planetmaker> ah, that is meant with 'that button' :-)
17:30:20 <frosch123> that button could the then be restricted, where it seems to go in your direction, but what was actually not my goal
17:30:43 <planetmaker> but would make it easier :-)
17:31:10 <planetmaker> I didn't know that GUI change was planned / thought of without any setting changes
17:31:11 <frosch123> Alberth: i tried to hide the panel with the list once, but the manual placement contained crashed when it was not intialised
17:31:19 <frosch123> somewhen i did svn revert :p
17:31:36 <frosch123> planetmaker: "planned" is a strong word
17:31:48 <planetmaker> "/ though of" :-P
17:32:27 <planetmaker> would "MINV" be a good tag?
17:32:55 <Alberth> frosch123: revert would be the best way out indeed, then :)
17:34:13 <planetmaker> moin sulai. Long time no see :-)
17:34:57 <Alberth> I have been pondering about the problem while going to/from work for the past few days, and concluded that the simplest approach would be to make a data representation of the 3 window states
17:35:16 <sulai> how are you doing planetmaker? what's going on in the openttd world?
17:35:42 <planetmaker> I'm doing quite fine - and I hope, you, too :-)
17:35:51 <sulai> @all: anybody in here who is form in web development? need a security "expert" for php+sql
17:36:03 <planetmaker> Many things changing. Many new features already in trunk since 1.0 :-)
17:36:05 <Alberth> we have free graphics for openttd now
17:36:29 <sulai> planetmaker: yeah just started my diploma yesterday
17:36:38 <planetmaker> hm... when have you been here last, sulai ?
17:36:51 <sulai> Must've been some month I think
17:37:35 <planetmaker> so I guess we have newgrf versions, NewObjects, NewAirportTiles, NewAirports (partially), NewRailtypes, new NewGRFGui, IndustryChainView,...
17:37:44 <frosch123> Alberth: how do you count to three?
17:37:45 <sulai> I think "timetable" improved a lot since 1.0?
17:37:47 <planetmaker> And nearly a new newgrf language :-)
17:37:54 <planetmaker> I don't think so, sulai
17:38:12 <Alberth> simple, current small layout, current wide layout
17:38:25 <sulai> a better newgrf language would be a dream... didn't dare to write own grfs yet
17:38:34 <planetmaker> sulai: search for NML
17:38:53 <planetmaker> or look at the devzone for OpenGFX+ Trains and SwedishRails or one of the Townname NewGRFs
17:39:04 <frosch123> oh, yes, missed the 2/3 column thingie
17:39:23 <planetmaker> (NML is also hosted at the devzone)
17:45:14 <sulai> what is IndustryChainView?
17:45:37 <frosch123> it views the chains of industries
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20903 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
17:46:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
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17:47:26 <planetmaker> sulai: a comodity for players with different industry sets :-9
17:47:35 <planetmaker> quick info on what cargo goes where
17:48:03 <planetmaker> a support for the lazyness of players to totally forget about the do-not-readmes ;-)
17:50:50 <sulai> I feel some urge to download the latest nightly ;)
17:51:33 <Rubidium> wait ~48 minutes and once your download is finished it's not the nightly anymore
17:51:58 <sulai> What about "comunity integrated nightlies". Anything happening there?
17:52:32 <Hirundo> There are various patchpacks floating around the forum
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17:53:22 <sulai> hm, anyone knows about good web pages about php security issues?
17:54:08 <frosch123> is password verification at clientside good enough for your security?
17:54:45 <Hirundo> don't forget building SQL queries in javascript and sending them in plain sight with GET
17:54:58 <Hirundo> never ever encrypt your passwords, you can't restore them that way
17:58:22 <Rubidium> and don't forget to store the sql password in the javascript, otherwise the PHP developers have access to the database
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18:02:43 <sulai> Hirundo seems to be a specialist :P
18:03:05 <Hirundo> one can only learn from experience :)
18:03:36 <frosch123> don't spoil your chances to sell security updates
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18:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can ./configure be tweaked so it actually spits out all missing libraries in one run?
18:22:19 <Alberth> never found that option, but then I never searched for it :) what does ./configure --help say?
18:22:34 <SmatZ> a lot, but nothing useful :)
18:22:49 * Alberth was afraid of that :)
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18:30:40 <SmatZ> still it will stop on first missing library
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19:16:33 * Rubidium wonders how long it's going to take for ln to not be able to expand his nick with underscores
19:16:47 <Rubidium> are you forgetting your OFTC password or something?
19:17:31 <__ln___> oh this recent one is because of a connection timeout early this morning
19:17:55 *** __ln___ is now known as __ln__
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19:22:46 <planetmaker> that link is scary ;-)
19:22:53 <planetmaker> good night, Alberth
19:29:08 <SmatZ> __ln__: are you uploading pics from apina to tumblr?
19:29:40 <SmatZ> it's not for the first time a pic appeared there and after a while, you posted a thumblr link with exactly the same picture :)
19:30:15 <__ln__> as far as i can remember this is the first tumblr.com link ever that i post.
19:30:30 <__ln__> anyway, i've never uploaded anything to either of those two.
19:30:36 <SmatZ> well, maybe it was not tumblr, but other image-hosting site :)
19:31:17 <Rubidium> it's a beautiful example of "too little information"; basically anything can be the right answer (except 0 and negative numbers)
19:32:31 <SmatZ> you can cut just two one-centimeter pieces to "split" it to three pieces
19:33:21 <SmatZ> ("in a non-perpendicular direction" being the important part)
19:33:29 <planetmaker> hm... but sawing... yes ^ :-)
19:34:04 <planetmaker> but then... given a rectangular board the answer 20 would still be correct, assuming that the 1st time the minimal effort was already used
19:34:18 <planetmaker> (like cutting of 1 mm^3 ;-)
19:34:30 <SmatZ> I think you would be very tired of 10 minutes sawing
19:34:44 <SmatZ> so sawing the same thing again would take much longer time
19:34:57 <SmatZ> (can you even imagine saw that piece of wood for 10 minutes?)
19:35:37 <Rubidium> e.g. after 1 minute walking you'll probably not got slower in the next minute, but after a 1 minute sprint the next minute likely goes slower
19:35:45 <planetmaker> I can imagine that I saw the board 10 minutes ago ;-)
19:35:50 <planetmaker> with my own eyes even ;-)
19:36:34 <planetmaker> it'd need a pretty strong needle to sew boards :-P
19:37:26 <planetmaker> SmatZ: see - saw - seen; saw - saw -sawn ;-)
19:38:13 <planetmaker> and sew - sewed - sewn
19:38:49 <Rubidium> some dictionary says "past of SEE"
19:39:43 <frosch123> to saw | sawed, sawn |
19:40:48 <frosch123> sorry, i was cheating :p
19:41:08 <planetmaker> But not with 'to saw'. And it failed
19:41:25 <Rubidium> apparantly "to saw, sawed, sawed" is valid as well
19:41:53 <planetmaker> as well as sew - sewed - sewed
19:42:36 <Rubidium> although... I wonder when we're going to see sawned
19:43:07 <SmatZ> Help, I have been sawned!
19:43:28 <Rubidium> after all, saied is used (here) as well
19:44:21 <planetmaker> meh @ Rubidium ;-)
19:44:27 <Rubidium> same as paied (which is used slightly more often)
19:44:52 <planetmaker> say - said - said <-- for me to remember ;-)
19:45:53 <SmatZ> saw - ??? - ??? <-- for me :)
19:46:21 <SmatZ> saw - "google it" - "google it"
19:46:27 <SmatZ> though googling fails quite often
19:46:49 <andythenorth_> ^ graphics ok for that :P
19:46:54 <andythenorth_> or room for improvement :D
19:47:10 <Chris_Booth> google only fails when the search is to ambigus
19:47:16 <planetmaker> lol. searching for "wasen" in the dictionary. Of course not found. One of the German suggestions: "etwas dick" :-P
19:47:57 <SmatZ> andythenorth_: biorefinery, omg :)
19:48:18 <planetmaker> hm, I think it can be improved, andythenorth_ :-)
19:48:36 <planetmaker> Too monotonuous :-)
19:48:40 <planetmaker> maybe some kind of sink
19:48:57 <planetmaker> and some kind of control / administration building
19:49:06 <Chris_Booth> I realy like it andythenorth_ thvdburgt
19:49:25 <frosch123> looks like the battery farm
19:49:38 <andythenorth_> those are not 'the' graphics
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19:49:48 <andythenorth_> those are the ones I stole from another industry :)
19:49:55 <Rubidium> if I deliver 6 tonnes of grain and 2 tons of sugar beets, how much does it produce?
19:50:10 <Chris_Booth_> IRC over VNC just doesnt work
19:50:22 <planetmaker> %3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C749&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=862&vpy=100&dur=1363&hovh=221&hovw=228&tx=123&ty=134&oei=Q4GrTN_eJdvPjAewoOTLBw&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:15&biw=1282&bih=583
19:50:29 <planetmaker> hm... crappy link
19:51:07 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: one of those looks like cellulosic ethanol from woodchips :)
19:51:11 <andythenorth_> that would be a 'change'
19:51:36 <andythenorth_> unless the biorefinery should also accept wood
19:51:40 <andythenorth_> or fibre crops?
19:52:48 <andythenorth_> think I did the same google search :)
19:53:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: see. They're not a high-density assortment of tanks ;-)
19:53:35 <andythenorth_> but actually the tanks I have could be used
19:53:41 <planetmaker> which I'm afraid your proposal looks like
19:53:50 <planetmaker> yes, they definitely can be part of it
19:54:01 <andythenorth_> yeah it wasn't a proposal :)
19:54:10 <planetmaker> I was afraid it should be all ;-)
19:54:16 <andythenorth_> just copy-paste-hack from fertiliser plant
19:54:19 <SmatZ> interesting, "biorefinery" is explained at wikipedia in just 4 languages, Czech being one of them :)
19:54:44 <planetmaker> though... how do you know, SmatZ ?
19:54:54 <planetmaker> Other languages might call it differently. But the same thing, different word
19:55:26 <SmatZ> planetmaker: well, there is a "This page is available in these languages:" on the left of the page
19:55:42 <SmatZ> I would expect all equal words in different laguages to be linked together
19:57:11 <planetmaker> hm... like in the OpenTTD wiki? :-P
19:57:59 <andythenorth_> I can rip grain tanks from ISR
19:58:10 <andythenorth_> and probably some kind of refinery stack
19:58:26 <andythenorth_> what are those stacks? fractionating columns?
19:58:37 <planetmaker> I also already thought of ISR's grain tanks. They'd fit well
19:59:35 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: do you want to be 'guest designer' of biorefinery? :)
19:59:57 <andythenorth_> or is learning layouts etc tmwftlb?
20:00:28 <planetmaker> layouts sound complicated...
20:00:33 <SmatZ> [21:57:06] <planetmaker> hm... like in the OpenTTD wiki? :-P <== OpenTTD wiki has translation? :)
20:00:41 <andythenorth_> it's actually quite soothing
20:00:51 <andythenorth_> doing layouts is one of the more fun things to code
20:01:04 <SmatZ> "the" wiki has a lot of contributors and country teams who should care about that
20:01:10 <planetmaker> I guess I'd do it in NML and then export is as NFO :-P
20:01:40 <planetmaker> SmatZ: openttd's has translations. Just look in the upper right of the main page
20:02:04 <planetmaker> not consistent. Not all-encompassing. But...
20:02:11 <SmatZ> planetmaker: yeah, well...
20:02:27 <SmatZ> the quality of several translations I have seen is very bad :(
20:02:59 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: could be a test of industry nml...
20:03:23 <planetmaker> could be. But it would not quite fit the template things used. But still
20:03:32 <planetmaker> might be worth a try :-)
20:04:00 <planetmaker> but also there I have no idea ;-)
20:06:26 <Hirundo> industry still needs 60+x vars in NML
20:07:43 <Wolf01> andythenorth_ moillusions.com
20:08:25 <SmatZ> andythenorth_: yeah, the way the brain works is amazing :)
20:23:15 <davis> is there some kind of patch that allows different trains to "unite"? e.g adding a second engine to a train before a big climb and removing it on top?
20:24:43 <Pulec> that castle totaly not works on moe
20:24:50 <Rubidium> SmatZ: the quality of the translations... if people complain about that: "told them that would happen"
20:24:53 <davis> just watching this documentation "Moden marvels: Freight trains" on youtube , it got me that idea.
20:30:41 * andythenorth_ wonders what happened to planetmaker's transfer order patch :o
20:30:54 <davis> what did that patch do?
20:31:24 <Rubidium> andythenorth_: my thesis?
20:33:49 <Rubidium> Lakie: does TTDPatch obey the refused slopes of (default) industries when terraforming around them? I.e. can you give the coal mine a foundation with autoslope?
20:36:38 <Rubidium> glx: nothing states the boards are 10 cm
20:36:54 <Rubidium> nothing states the size of the resulting pieces
20:37:11 <fonsinchen> and nothing states the board is square
20:37:14 <andythenorth_> nothing says she uses the same saw :P
20:37:17 <Rubidium> so... 15 is correct, but 10 and 20 as well
20:37:25 <glx> true, but the explanation givne by teacher is just wrong
20:38:59 <glx> 10m for 2 pieces, but 1 cut, so you can't say 5m per piece
20:39:03 <Lakie> Rubidium: I think you can give most industries slopes
20:40:08 <Lakie> Yes, you can autoslope induistries leading to them having foundations (coal mine tested)
20:41:28 <Rubidium> so... document that the refused slopes are ignored by autoslope?
20:41:49 <Lakie> I'm not using any industry grfs?
20:42:12 <Lakie> Oh, unsure what the refused slopes are, it seems not to care...
20:43:49 <Rubidium> and if autoslope doesn't "care", then it'd be a simple step to allow construction of industries on foundations as well; it wouldn't break something that is already broken, just make it slightly more visible
20:45:54 <andythenorth_> some of the large FIRS industries are not optimal for hilly maps
20:46:08 <andythenorth_> (unrelated to rub.s questions about slopes)
20:53:58 <andythenorth_> redrawing the clay pit is not in my plans :o
20:54:04 <andythenorth_> is clay mined at sea? :P
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21:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> don't wake a sleeping cat...
21:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it was originally a lion
21:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have not encountered any of those before
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21:11:28 <Wolf01> when my cat awakes, it wants always to be snuggled
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21:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> mine always want food...
21:32:47 <Wolf01> loal 23:32:23 and 23:32:32
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21:49:11 <default1> hello .. i have a question regarding CMD_PLACE_SIGN .. i want to place a colorful sign instead of a dull one, .. what parameters to pass to DoCommand() ?
21:50:33 <default1> i am currentlu using DoCommand(t->xy, 0, 0, DC_AUTO | DC_EXEC, CMD_PLACE_SIGN, "text here"); but, that creates a dull sign
21:51:20 <Rubidium> the colour depends on the owner
21:51:49 <default1> hmm is there no other way to create a color sign other then _current_owner?
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21:52:19 <Rubidium> well, unless you start changing a lot of code
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22:20:35 <GhostlyDeath> The toyland scheme is freaky
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22:25:50 <GhostlyDeath> oh joy a new cotton candy forest is being planted
22:27:46 <Lakie> Well, Rubidium, considering the callbacks and such that are used for autoslope, it'd be hard to enforce such things.
22:29:57 <GhostlyDeath> I got an idea for an industry: Bunny Farm
22:30:05 <GhostlyDeath> Requires: Bunnies, Produces: Bunnies
22:30:54 <GhostlyDeath> Also, Bunny production never drops as long as it is supplied by bunnies
22:34:31 <Lakie> It'd be similar to how the old spec's autoslope worked, Rubidium, though applying the principles to industries. You'd check that it allows autoslope first, if it does calculate the new tile, check that is acceptable, and then run the usual autoslope code which prevents overall 'industry/object height changing...
22:36:36 <Rubidium> the landslope callback (already) overrides the land slope flags
22:36:46 <Rubidium> so the autoslope callback would override them as well I'd say
22:37:20 <Lakie> Fair enough. That was how you'd do it keeping the "rules".
22:37:42 <Lakie> Major problem with it is it introduces non-uniform checks and such
22:38:27 <Rubidium> non-uniform in what way?
22:39:15 <Lakie> Well, autoslope affects all tile classes, so all tile classes would need some function checking the accepted slope in my 'solution', which many won't bother with.
22:39:40 <Lakie> But, I'm sure you have a better solution
22:40:32 <Rubidium> for OpenTTD there's an autoslope method for each tile class
22:41:18 <Lakie> Ah, ok, 'tis all one shared function in TTDP (well most of its shared).
22:41:31 <Lakie> Which is why it probably ignores various constrants
22:42:22 <Lakie> I figured OpenTTD would have a similar appoarch.
22:46:05 <Lakie> It does leave a question, why not accept the original constraints on autoslope too then, Rubidium?
22:46:32 <Rubidium> because that was never coded
22:46:47 <Lakie> So not doing it saves time?
22:47:06 <Rubidium> it was just never thought of
22:47:46 <Lakie> I imagine the same applies to TTDPatch then, that it was not considered.
22:48:16 <Lakie> Is it a bug which needs addressing though?
22:49:26 <Rubidium> well, if autoslope doesn't "care" about it, then why should building the industry by a human player care?
22:51:36 <Lakie> I'm unsure, the problem is some industries use the checks to make sure it looks correct, and some disabled autoslope?
22:52:02 <Lakie> Which in both cases keeping to the restrictions would be somewhat requied
22:52:18 <Rubidium> which is kinda why it's a whole mess
22:55:22 <Rubidium> in any case... yay for looking at unifying more industry and object code
22:55:31 <Rubidium> such things always bring "nice" surprises
22:56:50 <Lakie> Well, objects aren't really industries (or houses as mb originally thought)...
22:57:16 <Rubidium> true, but uniform behaviour along all structures is better in the long run
22:58:08 <Lakie> Easier for maintaince and coders, possibly, this said there will always be some non-uniform behaviour.
22:58:31 <Lakie> Otherwise it'd all be industry tiles or something instead of houses? ;)
23:00:56 <Rubidium> also for the players, or especially for the players
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continue to next day ⏵
