IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-10-04
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00:00:03 <Ammler> yes, that is the only method you can lose against ai
00:00:15 <Ammler> if you play constantly, you will win quite fast
00:01:07 <GhostlyDeath> Are there such things as dedicated servers?
00:01:22 <GhostlyDeath> Or would they be OpenTTD clients launching a game and doing completely nothing?
00:03:25 <Ammler> you can use your client also as server
00:03:32 <GhostlyDeath> I was thinking of telling my (unused) VPS
00:03:38 <GhostlyDeath> Would have to be console only however
00:03:43 <Ammler> but the constant online servers are mostly dedicated servers
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00:04:06 <Ammler> yes, openttd is able to run without X
00:04:29 <GhostlyDeath> What if it crashes? Can it resume from a asve?
00:04:38 <GhostlyDeath> or if the server dies for some reason
00:05:04 <Ammler> autosaves like you have locally
00:05:32 <Ammler> the server is complete client just without drawing
00:06:08 <GhostlyDeath> How much memory does it use?
00:08:03 <Ammler> but it needs much cpu power
00:08:27 <Ammler> so it does well suit vps
00:08:41 <Ammler> as usually those services use a lot memory but no cpu
00:09:04 <Ammler> GhostlyDeath: as said, it is like a client
00:09:16 <Ammler> it needs the same what you need locally to play
00:09:20 <GhostlyDeath> I hope you guys use sleep()/usleep()
00:09:47 <GhostlyDeath> however it doesn't cache graphics and such to waste memory
00:09:59 <Ammler> he, you win a big prize if you are able to optimize openttd :-P
00:10:01 <GhostlyDeath> and doesn't need a screen buffer or anything
00:10:19 <GhostlyDeath> Don't joke, I might actually try it
00:11:11 <GhostlyDeath> My VPS is memory starved with only 128MB
00:11:15 <Ammler> prize=big amount of honor
00:11:46 <GhostlyDeath> And is honor +o or +v?
00:12:03 <Ammler> that something else :-P
00:12:03 <GhostlyDeath> Or commit access
00:12:36 <Ammler> yeah, if you can make it faster, Rubidium will give you the lead ;-)
00:14:08 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: DJ_Nekkid was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <DJ_Nekkid> ty mate
00:14:13 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: DJNekkid was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 34 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <DJNekkid> i.e. the 2cc set does :D
00:22:55 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 10 minutes and 19 seconds ago: <Ammler> yeah, if you can make it faster, Rubidium will give you the lead ;-)
00:26:42 <GhostlyDeath> How much badnwidth does openttd use?
00:27:32 <Ammler> 1.3kb/s per client afaik
00:28:03 <Ammler> and the map download once
00:29:01 <GhostlyDeath> Is compression used?
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01:07:02 <DorpsGek> Chris_Booth: I have not seen anyone.
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04:02:20 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...I've been thinking...
04:02:48 <TruePikachu> You know how my system is pretty slow?
04:03:02 <TruePikachu> (and therefore OpenTTD)
04:03:24 <TruePikachu> You would think that it would preform better without KDE running in the BG
04:04:05 <TruePikachu> To me, it seems that OPenTTD 1.0.4 might be preforming better when started from KDE rather than started by the command:
04:04:45 <TruePikachu> X & DISPLAY=localhost:0 ; export DISPLAY ; /usr/share/games/openttd/openttd
04:05:34 <TruePikachu> (That starts up X11 without a window manager, sets up the enviorment vars to tell apps where the X11 server is, and starts up OpenTTD, for you guys who don't know what this does)
04:06:33 <TruePikachu> To the devs: Is there code in place which would make OTTD preform better when running from a window manager rather than straight from X11?
04:06:54 <TruePikachu> Something like caching or utilizing some functions from the manager?
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04:15:30 <TruePika> :( Resume= parameter still empty
04:15:40 * TruePika HATES setting up hibernation
04:18:21 <TruePika> And OTTD is uncontrollably slow when not started from KDE
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06:47:07 <dihedral> <GhostlyDeath> [04 Oct 2010 - 02:11:11] My VPS is memory starved with only 128MB <- that's not a vps that's a joke
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09:24:06 <Knall> anyone online who is willing to help me understand some part of the openttd makefile? :)
09:25:18 <Knall> i only wanted to know what the 2 exclamation marks in the Makefile.src.in means - where are these variables defined?
09:26:00 <Rubidium> they mean nothing; it's just a convenient way to make them easily replaceable by a regular expression
09:26:41 <Rubidium> they shouldn't be in the makefiles without the .in extension
09:27:10 <dihedral> lol - my irc client thinks Makefile.src.in is a url :-P
09:27:25 <Rubidium> dihedral: ofcourse it is
09:27:41 <dihedral> one it can open with firefox
09:27:57 <dihedral> as in, src.in behing a host name
09:29:52 <dihedral> oh snap - that's so sad :-P
09:38:23 <Knall> hmm vi thinks config.lib is written in cobol :P
09:40:16 * Rubidium thinks vi is written in cobol
09:40:26 <Rubidium> (or at least the first versions)
09:52:54 <Knall> is there any easy way to add the -g g++ option for debugging in the makefile? (there is no DEBUG make target, isn't there?)
09:53:52 <Knall> the -g option for the g++ compiler for including the debug symbols
09:54:00 <Rubidium> I know -g and -ggdb, but -gg++ I nor my manpage of g++ knows it
09:54:18 <Rubidium> ./configure --enable-debug=1
09:54:37 <Noldo> Rubidium is generaly more reliable
09:54:48 <Noldo> anyway all the flag things are in the configure script
09:54:55 <Knall> thats what i was searching for, thanks
09:56:16 <Rubidium> try ./configure --help as well. Might be interesting what that says
09:58:29 <Knall> thank you very much, sorry for bothering with silly questions :)
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11:50:50 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Finally turning our OO-in-C code into reall OO code? :-)
11:51:10 <TrueBrain> about bloody time :p
11:51:51 <TrueBrain> where everything had to be in C
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13:34:38 <avdg> is it normal that I get a desync when an ai failed to compile, while no ai is used?
13:35:34 <Ammler> maybe you have enabled ais and it tries to start one
13:36:34 <avdg> the server allowed ai players, but I didn't start one
13:37:21 <avdg> I always get a 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:37:50 <avdg> I bet its nothing usefull
13:39:20 <dihedral> define 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:39:33 <dihedral> i.e. show the error message ;-)
13:40:41 <dihedral> <dihedral> define 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:40:41 <dihedral> <dihedral> i.e. show the error message ;-)
13:41:05 <avdg> with some debug levels on
13:41:32 <dihedral> the use of the word 'always' actually made me think you knew how to reproduce it ;-)
13:41:57 <avdg> but it works when I try to create a company
13:42:33 <dihedral> i am more interested in the errors :-P
13:43:39 <glx> 32 and 54 are not desync, but OS errors
13:44:07 <avdg> -_- seems I can't find my screenshots
13:45:26 <avdg> but I don't know how to get more information
13:45:49 <glx> AI are started because you lost connection
13:48:08 <avdg> bleh, net gives me too much information
13:48:26 <Rubidium> 32 = broken pipe, 54 = exchange full (at least under Linux)
13:49:06 <dihedral> that looks like OS X
13:49:19 <glx> on windows errors are 100XX IIRC
13:51:42 <glx> with a connection as stable as yours it's not surprising you have problems in multiplayer :)
13:53:18 <dihedral> avdg, you are on OS X right?
13:53:53 <dihedral> cases where network 'modulation' is misunderstood
13:54:15 <avdg> I think I should blame that server or my isp
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13:56:42 <dihedral> it's always the others, ey?
13:57:19 <dihedral> you playing hide 'n seek with us?
13:57:49 <avdg> nope, I don't want to play that game
13:58:27 <dihedral> my phones connection is better than that :-P
13:58:47 <avdg> my 56k connection is more stable :p
14:00:10 <avdg> ok, seems I don't get my 56k connection this month
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14:13:03 <dihedral> congratulations avdg, you were in this channel for more than 15 mins
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14:14:25 <avdg> maybe is my disconnect related to the network problems @openttd
14:25:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:25:51 <dihedral> avdg> maybe is my disconnect related to the network problems @openttd <- could be yes
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14:43:51 <Rubidium> I don't see a lordmwa or lord aro there
14:53:48 <dihedral> i was kinda shocked to find unique_id to have disappear from the ClientInfo
14:56:49 <dihedral> Rubidium, reagarding the network spec - could it be an idea to add a keyboard shortcut to 'private chat to server'?
14:57:17 <dihedral> something along the lines of ctrl+shift+return
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16:30:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: that has nothing to do with the network spec
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16:30:30 <Rubidium> but feel free to file a feature request
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17:55:52 <GT> Do we really need a Catalanian version of the wiki?
17:56:12 <Chris_Booth> if we have a catalan user yes
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18:01:06 <Ammler> GT: there is also a language OpenTTD :-)
18:01:22 <Carci> I've never even HEARD of that language before >.>
18:01:39 <Ammler> Carci: second language in spain
18:01:55 <Ammler> or first, not sure about the order :-)
18:02:49 <Carci> I thought Spanish was the primary language in Spain?
18:03:39 <Ammler> Carci: that statement might be similar to "German is primary language in Swiss"
18:04:22 <Ammler> which is at least here a lie, if you ask the French part of Swiss :-)
18:06:00 <Carci> Sounds like it might be somewhat like French/English in Canada -- only Catalan is slightly more limited in where it's spoken widely within Spain, compared to where French is spoken in Canada.
18:08:04 <Ammler> hmm, thought there is only one state in canada using French
18:09:20 <Carci> That's still wider than Catalan is in Spain. :P
18:09:48 <Carci> Numbers say about 9 million Catalan speakers in Spain, compared to about 48 million Spanish speakers.
18:10:04 <Carci> If wikipedia is accurate at all :p
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18:11:40 <GT> well, I don't really mind, but it might get messy, when every langauge and variant is added
18:11:49 <andythenorth_> I work with a catalan speaker
18:11:55 <andythenorth_> 1 of about 30 people
18:12:02 <andythenorth_> is that a statistical sample? :P
18:12:04 <Carci> Is there an Esperanto version of the wiki? :o
18:12:06 <Belugas> does it get messy when you want to choose the language of OpenTTD?
18:13:28 <GT> no, but there I dont have to check info in different languages, which will happen, articles will start to deviate in different languages
18:14:35 <GT> OTOH, it might help some users, not everybody speaks English
18:14:44 <Rubidium> GT: there's no point in going against the wish to create an incorrectly out-of-date translation of wiki pages
18:14:57 <Carci> Heh. As long as the English pages are up to date and fine...
18:15:04 <Carci> Then there's no harm there...
18:15:15 <Carci> And only benefit in at least having SOME form of pages in another language.
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18:22:17 <Rubidium> for every one you "deny" there'll be like two others wanting to translate
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18:27:10 <Fixed> hello, what to do if i have over 100 autos that are too old but no updates are available, can i rebuy new some automatical way?
18:27:19 <Belugas> i would have loved to find OpenTTD wiki's in french, way back then
18:29:18 <avdg> funny is that there is no dutch version of the wiki
18:29:30 <avdg> or at least nothing I've seen so far
18:30:38 <planetmaker> surprisingly nice and smooth train travel :-)
18:33:04 <planetmaker> how nice... suggesting a re-write of the PF...
18:34:16 <Xaroth> avdg: luckily most dutch people know sufficient english.
18:35:16 <avdg> except maybe the youngest players
18:35:32 <Xaroth> they should spend more time learning english anyhow
18:35:38 <Xaroth> good place to start, reading an english wiki.
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18:37:11 <Xaroth> and while they are at it, some healthy respect for other languages goes a long way in online games :)
18:37:39 * Xaroth gets reaaaally pissed off at ignorant dutch kids who refuse to take the effort to talk english in an english community/game
18:38:19 * avdg reminds the "pls pls pls" voice of some childs
18:40:03 <Belugas> or the wide opened chick peek
19:15:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20895 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use an enum to identify the rows of buttons in the industryview.
19:24:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20896 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Split recompution of productionrates for non-smooth economy to separate function.
19:35:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20897 /trunk/src/ (cheat_gui.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Store the result of IsProductionAlterable() in a member variable of IndustryViewWindow.
19:45:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20898 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Change: When entering a production rate, round to nearest possible rate instead towards zero.
20:02:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20899 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch order of if-tests in IndustryViewWindow::OnClick().
20:03:47 <Belugas> let's go frosch123 let's go! Dunno where you're heading, but i'm sure it will be cool
20:03:57 <Rubidium> I know where he's heading
20:04:26 <frosch123> and it's not cool? :p
20:04:31 <Belugas> heading to bed in a few moments :)
20:04:32 <Rubidium> to bed and beyond! :) Possibly after the next commit(s) though
20:04:58 <frosch123> your fault, did not notice the clock
20:05:18 <frosch123> anyway, tomorrow starts with a meeting, so ...
20:06:22 <frosch123> Belugas: you missed albert on saturday :)
20:06:49 <frosch123> like 30 commits in row or so :)
20:07:09 <Belugas> but... after the fact :)
20:07:14 <Belugas> yeah, i was impressed
20:07:22 <Belugas> although the description was so boring..
20:07:43 <Rubidium> boring's good (for easter eggs)
20:08:53 <Belugas> saturday, i was doing some home improving
20:09:06 <Belugas> andso for the next month
20:09:18 <frosch123> yeah, like "-Codechange: Convert foo into method." ... "-Codechange: Convert bar into method." ... "-Codechange: Port to java."
20:10:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20900 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move ProductionLevels enum to industry.h
20:11:13 <Belugas> these parts, in fact...
20:13:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20901 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix/Change: When using non-smooth or newgrf-economy changing production rates does not work (anymore), so allow changing the production multiplier instead.
20:13:24 * frosch123 awaits Eddi|zuHause's diff
20:13:55 * Rubidium awaits whoever was going to make a patch in a sec yesterday
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20:21:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20902 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
20:21:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4032]: Make IsProductionAlterable() work for most NewGRF industries.
20:21:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: The NewGRF either has to use properties 12/13, or it needs to set property 0B to 'primary industry'.
20:21:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: So it will not work for bank-like industries which use pure production-callback production.
20:24:02 <andythenorth_> fixes a few FIRS complaints :)
20:25:31 <frosch123> let's hope they do not turn into OTTD complaints, that individual production rates are no longer alterable :p
20:27:50 * andythenorth_ can't test due to conflicts with alberth's patch :(
20:28:01 <andythenorth_> I guess that's what hg revert is for :)
20:28:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: you only have one openttd copy? ;-)
20:28:54 <frosch123> it conflicts with alberth's patch?
20:29:07 <frosch123> surprises me actually :)
20:30:57 <frosch123> ah, i inserted some code above some code he removed
20:31:29 <frosch123> so, no real conflict, just automatic merging fails
20:31:58 <frosch123> try applying the diff after the update
20:46:34 <andythenorth_> this beer is not cold :o
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21:03:32 <Belugas> going home and going to sleep
21:03:42 <Rubidium> nighty night Belugas
21:04:09 <Belugas> you too wide awaken Rubidium :)
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21:38:20 <TruePikachu> I designed an ultimate station; I will be back to share it when I'm back from school :)
21:41:28 <frosch123> playing ottd under the bedspread whole night? :p
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21:47:44 <Rubidium> Terkhen: that's a good idea; good night y'all
21:58:31 <TrueBrain> I refuse to be a follower
21:58:33 <TrueBrain> but I have to get sleep
22:00:30 <Ammler> usually it needs areound 10mins tv and it sleeps
22:00:59 <Ammler> specially if it is a channel with ads
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22:22:14 <GhostlyDeath> Who dictates money, the client or server?
22:22:30 <GhostlyDeath> Would the client know if the server gave it unlimited amounts of cash?
22:25:50 <SmatZ> server can't simply give a client money
22:26:18 <SmatZ> the amount of money is stored in the savegame that is downloaded when client connects
22:26:37 <SmatZ> different amount of money on different clients => desync
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23:17:53 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...how quickly do you think a 24 tile long train will fill with goods from a factory being supplied with 6 tile long steel trains, 12 tile long grain trains, and 18 tile long livestock trains?
23:18:16 <TruePikachu> The factory station I designed uses those specifications
23:23:04 <TruePikachu> It is quite a monster station...
23:25:03 <TruePikachu> Will feed off of an L_R mainline, both ways, feeds into a 2->4 load balancer, to waypoints, then to Progman's presignal structures (the logic improvers), to the platforms; each platform type has a unified exit, which feeds into a 4->2 balancer, which can go either way on the mainline.
23:26:08 <TruePikachu> With minimum turn length of 3, dimensions are 30x33
23:26:52 <TruePikachu> That is with 2 6-tile platforms, 2 12-tile, 2 18-tile, and 4 24-tile
23:27:02 * TruePikachu is diagramming it up into GIMP
23:29:18 <TruePikachu> Flipping the orientation of one of the balancers might be able to allow all platforms to be the same size; this junction almost takes a minimum of space right now (minimum will reduce each platform length by 2 tiles)
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23:44:35 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...any way to get KDE's current display ID?
23:44:50 <TruePikachu> * Screen ID, as in localhost:a.b
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