IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-29
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00:14:54 <Ammler> any reason, you don't use grfcodec -c for openttd.grf?
00:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Unhandled exception: page fault on write access to 0x209ef3fc in 32-bit code (0x0079408d).
00:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i was afraid of...
00:22:08 <Ammler> grfcodec -s -e -m1 $(OBJS_DIR)/openttd.grf from Makefile.grf.in
00:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and what does -c do?
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00:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: afair there was something about foundation sprites getting garbled when using -c
00:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that ever applied to openttd, though
00:25:49 <Ammler> we disabled cropping per sprite on ogfx
00:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can specify cropping for each sprite, isn't the -c switch then redundant?
00:33:47 <Ammler> you don't for every sprite, only those which don't work, like foundations
00:34:02 <Ammler> or some other transparency things like stations
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05:56:15 <Chrill> I studied Spanish for four years in school
05:56:19 <Chrill> and all I remember is hola :D
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06:19:37 <Terkhen> hmmm... I hate when the terms of use of something change
06:19:52 <Chrill> which terms have changed for you?
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07:08:16 <Terkhen> good morning dihedral
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09:02:02 <planetmaker> I see a nice Fix FS#3637 :-)
09:06:46 <planetmaker> fjb: as in answer to your yesterday's question: it was rather about real-world. But was an extremely good talk
09:07:18 <planetmaker> Turned out actually by the guy who was the project manager in the DOD back in 1972 when the design of GPS was written and fixed
09:07:55 <planetmaker> so basically by one of the fathers of it :-)
09:09:00 <planetmaker> hm... Feature: NewObject: GroundStation: reduces air plane crashes in the vicinity by ... whatever percentage :-)
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09:14:39 <fjb> I asked a question yesterday?
09:15:37 <planetmaker> It was the evening's highlight lecture ;-)
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09:26:11 <planetmaker> mostly it works at the congress centre. Not always and everywhere, but yeah :-)
09:26:39 <planetmaker> I think they want one to pay in the other places as pay-wifi is available everywhere
09:27:21 <planetmaker> (which probably is the deal with the telecom: install everywhere and we give you customers, but give us two spots free wifi)
09:28:13 <planetmaker> Did you get my e-mail, SmatZ ?
09:29:48 <SmatZ> planetmaker: now, yes :)
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10:11:44 <planetmaker> should openttd's command line help only show available drivers?
10:12:45 <SmatZ> I think it shows compiled drivers
10:14:18 <planetmaker> err. "No such sound driver: libtimidity
10:14:21 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong paste, i presume ;)
10:15:15 <planetmaker> besides... I think the explanation is wrong: "Most likely you are missing files from the original TTD" :-D
10:15:24 <planetmaker> I definitely don't
10:16:30 <planetmaker> hm... OSX bug :-)
10:16:45 <SmatZ> $ bin/openttd -m libtimidity
10:16:46 <SmatZ> Error: No such music driver: libtimidity
10:17:51 <planetmaker> both should work, no? List of music drivers:
10:17:53 <planetmaker> cocoa: Cocoa MIDI Driver
10:17:54 <planetmaker> libtimidity: LibTimidity MIDI Driver
10:17:56 <planetmaker> extmidi: External MIDI Driver
10:17:57 <planetmaker> null: Null Music Driver
10:18:34 <planetmaker> yep... it has un-updated strings, I see
10:19:08 <planetmaker> but... first some lunch :-)
10:21:32 <avdg> lol, my player is looping
10:22:04 <avdg> looks like -m extmidi doesn't work here
10:23:05 <avdg> hmm, after restart and no options and I have sound :p
10:23:59 <avdg> looks like fun, hopefully not buggy
10:24:38 <SmatZ> player is looping when there is some problem with the output
10:24:41 <SmatZ> maybe when it doesn't work
10:24:51 <SmatZ> I don't exactly remember why it happens :)
10:25:51 <avdg> maybe its returning something like "I'm done" while its just started
10:28:32 <avdg> hmm, these new songs sounds kinda "loopy" while the original songs more had a melody
10:28:42 <avdg> but thats a quick examination
10:32:37 <Rubidium> OS X specific patch? How likely is it that is going to backfire...
10:33:41 <avdg> I didn't like the touchpath patch, now I can only think at testing
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11:00:17 <dihedral> "most likely" does not start for a fact, but a useful hint - i.e. perhaps 90% of the cases this error would be correct?
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11:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: but wouldn't missing files be caught by the .obm?
11:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> likely the error message is older than that, and wasn't updated
11:22:50 <dihedral> uh - that could very well be true :-)
11:24:57 <planetmaker> that's quite well true :-)
11:26:32 <planetmaker> hg blame tells me hg revision 17706
11:28:00 <Ammler> planetmaker: listen :-P
11:29:09 <Ammler> majonaise, how do I mount a samba share with debian?
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11:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> cifs is the successor to smbfs
11:30:40 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: seems like debian asks for time travelling :-)
11:30:48 <planetmaker> mount -t smbfs /dev/whatever
11:32:00 <Ammler> I guess, I just need to install the packages, debian howtos do also talk about cifs
11:32:06 <planetmaker> which is an alias :-)
11:32:36 <Ammler> Rubidium: the backupserver does allow ftp or samba
11:32:52 <Ammler> hmm, I could maybe make a sshfs
11:36:39 <dihedral> samba is as secure as ftp :-P
11:36:54 <dihedral> so if you only want to prefer smb over ftp because of security ...
11:38:00 <Ammler> no, something which I can mount
11:38:03 <Rubidium> backup server? Does that sounds like "off-site" and WAN?
11:38:36 <Ammler> Rubidium: I do not care that much, I use it as iso archive and such
11:39:27 <Ammler> well, it is kinda DMZ, limited to hetzner only
11:40:32 <Rubidium> point is, SMB over WAN isn't that great
11:41:24 <Rubidium> even then ftpfs via FUSE should mount as well
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11:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my windows is screwed up, it doesn't even start proprerly anymore...
11:51:29 <dihedral> Ammler, i would suggest using something like duply / duplicity
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11:52:31 <dihedral> and make sure you make a backup of the duply config at home ^^
11:54:21 <Rubidium> oh, it has sftp as well?
11:54:23 <Ammler> dihedral: I am using that server
11:55:06 <Rubidium> then you can likely use sshfs as well
11:56:37 <Ammler> I am not sure, if I will use the server for "sensitive data"
11:57:22 <Ammler> my rsync to my home server works nicely, restoring is a pain :-)
11:57:55 <Rubidium> that's just switching some rsync params
11:58:19 <Ammler> i have 20MB down and 500kb up
11:59:26 <Ammler> just enough so you can't do streaming with "cheap home adsl"
12:00:23 <Ammler> 20Mbit and 2Mbit it is, iirc
12:00:24 <dihedral> i stream and have a 2Mbps
12:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> your upstream is still 6 times higher than my downstream...
12:02:39 <dihedral> ... upstream faster than downstream?
12:03:20 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: hat sounds like dial speed?
12:03:22 <glevans2> Eddi|zuHause, are you on sneaker-net?
12:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: almost...
12:04:06 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 83.3333333333
12:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's off by a factor 2...
12:04:25 <Rubidium> that's faster than the fastest single line ISDN (64)
12:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i was basing my statement on 2MBit
12:05:10 <Rubidium> then it's definitely not ISDN/PTSN/POTS
12:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's DSL "light"
12:05:38 <__ln__> how much is DSL "heavy"?
12:05:55 <dihedral> and only weights 130g :-P
12:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "light" is 384kbit, "normal" is 1MBit or 768kbit [old]
12:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's faster ones, 6MBit, 16MBit, ...
12:06:59 <Rubidium> Ammler: it's still 6 to 7 times faster than any "dial speed"
12:07:43 <Rubidium> in any case, I've had cases where downstream was slower than upstream
12:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually "winning" on "who has the lowest bandwidth" challanges :p
12:08:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: my phone has a lower bandwidth
12:08:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes...
12:09:16 <Rubidium> it's smart enough to have a whopping 100 different sudoku start positions, to know the time and to actually store some 20 text messages or so
12:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's larger than a calculator, or larger than a suitcase? :p
12:10:41 <Rubidium> it's smaller than my TI-83
12:10:53 <Rubidium> it has a colour screen though
12:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> TIs are a great anomaly... neither their speed nor their memory has increased in the last 30 years :p
12:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not anywhere near exponential...
12:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what do i do now? i can't get Civ5 to run, and everything else is boring...
12:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope the new computer arrives this week...
12:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but i fear it won't...
12:17:49 <glx> and now I'm trying to remember where is my TI-to-TI cable
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13:12:37 <dihedral> Yexo, i was hoping the person who made the thread would take action himself ;-)
13:12:41 <dihedral> hence i did not report it
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13:57:32 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Your computer will be outdated when it arrives.
14:03:44 * Belugas thinks about his own computer park at home and laughs at the idea of outdated computers :)
14:04:44 <dihedral> there is no such thing :-P
14:04:46 * fjb owns an Amiga 1000. And the parts of the newest Computers are at least 5 - 8 years old.
14:05:03 * davis feels happy about his own pc all suddenly :D
14:13:40 <planetmaker> thinking of outdated... the space shuttle runs on 8086 processors IIRC.
14:13:49 <planetmaker> Or did they upgrade to 80486?
14:14:21 <planetmaker> but definitely more radiation hardened and space proof than most current cpus ;-)
14:14:21 <fjb> Someting that survives the trip into the orbit at least.
14:14:46 <planetmaker> it's not survival. It's radiation hardeness
14:15:04 <planetmaker> that is susceptibility to errors due to radiation
14:16:52 <dihedral> hehe - the space shuttle probably is a system you would not want to change just like that :-D
14:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i presume lead-shielding might be a little heavy on a spacecraft ;)
14:17:28 <dihedral> "uh uh - new hardware, lets upgrade" .... " ...a rescue mission is being started ..."
14:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i read an article recently that some aircraft-design-documents specified "in-flight software updates" :p
14:20:18 <dihedral> hopefully not without redundancy and failover / rollback system in place
14:20:34 <dihedral> i'd not jump on that plane :-P
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14:21:44 <Belugas> given that the space shuttles are all about to be removed, let say it's not a matter anymore :)
14:22:55 <planetmaker> dihedral: then you probably don't want to jump into modern Airbus or Boing jets...
14:23:05 <planetmaker> Belugas: sadly yes :-(
14:24:20 <planetmaker> design last 5 years or so
14:25:00 <Belugas> space shuttle was a very impressive piece
14:26:21 <planetmaker> STS-133 hasn't yet lift off
14:27:01 <planetmaker> And I think there'll also be a STS-134.
14:28:01 <planetmaker> yeah. Nov 1 2010 and Feb 26 2011
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14:33:49 <Rubidium> they should launch 135 as well... a big huge firecracker :)
14:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i heard the russians also had a space shuttle program
14:34:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium: too many bad memories I guess... and with <2% failure it's actually quite good
14:34:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: long long long ago, and burried back then. The Buran
14:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i meant
14:35:49 <planetmaker> the main purpose of the SpaceShuttle actually never was fullfilled: save costs and improve re-use
14:36:11 <planetmaker> but... it might not have been the main driver :-)
14:43:14 * Rubidium wonders what dihedral trusts more... pilots or computers
14:43:39 <Rubidium> i.e. whether he rather flies Boeings or Airbusses
14:44:07 <dihedral> unless they are suicidal :-D
14:50:36 <planetmaker> well... there have been hundrets of 100% autopilot landings already
14:50:47 <planetmaker> with comercial-grade aircraft
14:50:53 <planetmaker> you may just not have noticed ;-)
14:51:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but should the pilot or computer have the final say in the matter?
14:51:43 <planetmaker> if there's a human he probably will.
14:51:52 <Rubidium> i.e. should the computer override the pilot (Airbus) or the pilot override the computer (Boeing)
14:52:38 <planetmaker> ask the Swiss and Russians what happens, if the humans override the computer :-)
14:52:52 <planetmaker> the debris rained on Switzerland...
14:54:16 <fjb> New TTD aircraft: space shuttle. Goes three times over the whole map before it delivers anything.
14:54:32 <planetmaker> capacity: 7 passengers?
14:56:01 <planetmaker> running cost: 1 billion. Speed: 30000km/h
14:56:15 <Belugas> I remember, as a (relative kid), that NASA got a Boeing 747 with a space shuttle on top of it, flying over the Montreal city for a little demonstration
14:56:19 <Belugas> it was magical to see
14:56:29 <planetmaker> Belugas: that's still in use...
14:56:43 <planetmaker> that's the way they get them back from CA to Florida
14:56:49 <Belugas> granted, for taking it back home
14:57:42 <Belugas> but seeing the stuff flying over with your own eyes, for a show purpose, is quite magical
14:58:25 <Belugas> waving at Peter Gabriel and receiving a wave back :)
14:58:40 <Belugas> or David Gilmour, or... you know... a legend
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14:59:32 * fjb is waiting for a space shuttle to wave back.
15:01:03 <planetmaker> That I do believe, Belugas - must've been awesome
15:02:07 <Rubidium> planetmaker: so blame the Boeing's computer/pilots I'd say
15:03:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I guess those two aircraft weren't listening to the same frequency, otherwise the Boeing's pilots should've known the other aircraft was ordered down as well
15:03:04 <Belugas> another good spatial related memory: I do have vivid memories of the landing on the moon, in 69. Neil Armstrong and all, on TV
15:03:12 <Belugas> wow... that was just... wow!
15:03:40 <Rubidium> for some reason I can't remember a thing from back then
15:04:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: on the other hand it's amazing that they managed to hit eachother mid-air
15:05:34 <planetmaker> oh well. That's what the warning and collision detection system is about: to avoid just that... mid-air crashes still tend to be mostly fatal
15:05:42 <glx> Rubidium: no, one pilot followed the controller orders
15:05:49 <fjb> Rubidium: Better blame it on privatized air control.
15:05:51 <glx> the other one followed the TCAS
15:06:18 <glx> now the rule is always listen to TCAS
15:14:23 <Belugas> [11:03] <@Rubidium> for some reason I can't remember a thing from back then <-- i just wonder why :)
15:15:12 <planetmaker> I have the full TV coverage on video... but no TV anymore :-P
15:15:22 <planetmaker> and I guess my video player doesn't operate anymore either.
15:16:58 <dihedral> <planetmaker> ask the Swiss and Russians what happens, if the humans override the computer :-) <- lol
15:17:24 <dihedral> it depends what you want to override i'd say ^^
15:17:44 <dihedral> pulling the joke for 10 seconds to disable (only parts of) the autopilot may be slightly confusing
15:18:19 <planetmaker> the autopilot can be disabled everywhere.
15:18:45 <dihedral> still dislike that one ^^
15:18:51 <planetmaker> Just... with the fly-by-wire system the computer in modern Airbus planes disallows ruder use which it considers harmful to the airplane
15:19:38 <dihedral> there was a company teaching it's pilots to use full rudder left, right, left, right, etc - when the plane hit turbulences
15:21:45 <fjb> Airbus is known for not allowing many things like using thrust reverse on only one of two engines.
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15:50:47 <planetmaker> doesn't look like totally unexpected
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17:32:56 <Belugas> meeeehhh... practice guitar amp is a tiny bit expansive :(
17:33:06 <Belugas> too much for my current blood, at least
17:35:11 * Alberth thinks you either s/pan/pen/, or you need a bigger house
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19:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the maximum number of sound samples played at the same time? and where is that defined?
19:09:22 <Rubidium> or if not there somewhere else in the mixer's code
19:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it neither in mixer.h nor in mixer.cpp
19:10:41 <Rubidium> then you'll have to wait for someone else to search the code
19:10:45 <Chris_Booth> should be in mixer.cpp
19:11:08 <Chris_Booth> I don't have VS on here
19:11:46 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: src/mixer.cpp
19:11:49 <SmatZ> static MixerChannel _channels[8];
19:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, a magic number
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19:27:12 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: we have an almost infinite supply of those :)
19:28:26 <Rubidium> hmm... I think I exported the wrong page in my ODS... a 2222 page PDF isn't what I wanted
19:29:21 <Alberth> it sounds slightly bulky :)
19:30:23 <Alberth> only when you try making a dead-tree version of it :)
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23:27:01 <jtfreak> I didn't find any useful help in the forum about this bug:
23:27:22 <jtfreak> I connect a port and a train station (both OIL)
23:27:39 <Chrill> are the two separate stations from the beginning?
23:27:43 <jtfreak> the ship arrives fully loaded
23:28:03 <jtfreak> but the reloads again and takes the goods away
23:28:17 <jtfreak> so can I tell the ship just to leave the goods there and dissapear again?
23:28:31 <Chrill> select it to Transfer, then to No Load
23:28:39 <jtfreak> I tried all the options, but it didn't work...
23:28:40 <Chrill> this will make it unload the cargo there, but not pick new cargo up
23:28:53 <Chrill> first select Unload -> Transfer, then Load -> No Load
23:29:01 <jtfreak> I found the transfer, but there is no option not to load...
23:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, next dropdown
23:29:34 <Chrill> they are two separate options, together they make it "Transfer and leave empty"
23:29:58 <jtfreak> Oh GOOD GOD! I have to combine these two... what a noob error!!!!
23:30:08 <jtfreak> guess it's too late for such a game...
23:30:32 <jtfreak> but here's another question:
23:30:48 <jtfreak> is it right, that the port "looses" the goods by time?
23:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if rating drops below 50%
23:31:15 <jtfreak> very slow, but they vanish....
23:31:43 <jtfreak> ah, ok. so I should make my train bigger...
23:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not bigger, arrive more often
23:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> rating mostly depends on how often the trains arrive. size doesn't really matter
23:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> unless the piles get huge
23:32:57 <jtfreak> I'll speed it up.. :)
23:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a limit of like 4000 or 16000 items at the station
23:33:18 <jtfreak> have nice time! thanks!
23:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (imho the rating calculation is bad. it encourages the wrong kind of network building)
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