IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-07
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00:01:26 <Nite_Owl> I guess all of the developers have gone to sleep. I keep forgetting the time difference.
00:05:30 <ccfreak2k> Heh, building trees.
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00:27:58 <Nite_Owl> I will try again tomorrow when hopefully people are awake - unless they read the log and find it before hand. Later all.
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01:35:10 <VVG> yay, finished cleaning up the code. not very interesting task, had to do it in small steps
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06:49:09 * dihedral thought orudge was going to send me some templates :-P
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07:56:39 <planetmaker> hm... only two or three nightly servers and 5 testing
07:59:17 <dihedral> what you trying to say?
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08:05:32 <planetmaker> I advocate that the last servers newer thatn 1.0.3 close down, too
08:06:56 <Rubidium> that'll definitely not improve the (network) stability of 1.1.0
08:09:35 <dihedral> planetmaker, close down or are not displayed on the "first page" of server listings
08:09:40 <dihedral> Rubidium, what do you need?
08:11:15 <dihedral> Rubidium, a 'wwottdgd' with a clean trunk/rc/stable release? :-P
08:13:19 <Rubidium> dihedral: as per planetmaker's wishes trunk and/or RCs shouldn't be started (or otherwise should be closed down), so that leaves the stable release... and testing 1.1.0 is too late to get fixes into 1.1.0
08:13:55 <dihedral> that for sure is true
08:15:22 <dihedral> but is there something we could do, in order to help with testing (pre) 1.1.0 <whatever>
08:16:09 <dihedral> other than being totally nasty and making use of known issues with older version and making them shutdown :-P
08:17:51 <Rubidium> dihedral: you can't do tests if you follow planetmaker's wishes
08:18:33 <planetmaker> dihedral, just look at the server listing
08:18:57 <planetmaker> It has zillions of 1.0.3 (fine). the two coop server, one with a hg revision. 5 RC-1 of 1.0.4 and then older stables
08:19:26 <planetmaker> that's... a huge step back wrt the exposure nightlies got a year ago or so
08:19:29 <dihedral> planetmaker, make use of known issues
08:19:33 <dihedral> i.e. make them crash
08:19:58 * Rubidium thinks dihedral still hasn't gotten what planetmaker actually wrote
08:20:27 * dihedral thinks Rubidium only got what planetmaker wrote and not what he meant :-P
08:21:05 * planetmaker thinks you both split hairs. Just one blonde ones, the other dark ones
08:21:27 <dihedral> "ob schwarz, rot oder braun, pm liebt nur blonde fraun" :-D
08:21:38 <planetmaker> hm... definitely not true.
08:22:15 <Rubidium> dihedral: he's talking about nightlies and RCs, that there are less than a while ago and that the "last" servers newer than 1.0.3 should close down as well. It's pretty clear that he could only mean those 8 servers > 1.0.3
08:22:57 <Rubidium> otherwise he wouldn't said something like "the other servers older than 1.0.3 close down"
08:25:28 <planetmaker> but maybe one should indeed visit those old servers :-P
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08:26:17 <planetmaker> I won't do knowingly sabotage any server ;-)
08:26:24 <planetmaker> I just want to play...
08:30:09 <planetmaker> but if we close down the newer servers, too, we can declare OpenTTD "done" and that's it. Nice, new world.
08:30:16 <planetmaker> Only it would be boring. Hm...
08:30:30 <dihedral> start a new project :-P
08:30:52 <dihedral> "Wer eine Datenverarbeitung, die fr einen anderen von wesentlicher Bedeutung ist, dadurch erheblich strt, dass er" <- that already fails
08:31:06 <dihedral> "von wesentlicher Bedeutung" would not apply in this case :-P
08:32:20 <Rubidium> maybe OpenTTD is used as "spy tool", in which case it could influence the security of the Bundesrepublik
08:32:21 <dihedral> because neither the service was / is used, nor updated, nor maintained
08:32:50 <dihedral> and a not used / maintained service cannot be "von wesentlicher Bedeutung"
08:32:54 <dihedral> no court would go with that
08:33:09 <dihedral> further more, i am not influencing DATA
08:33:39 <Rubidium> dihedral: what proof do you have they're not maintained/updated?
08:34:06 <dihedral> min players level + game seed :-P
08:34:46 <Rubidium> doesn't proof it isn't used
08:35:01 <dihedral> besides, if they were maintained, you'd see them back online very quickly, unless someone is using a monitor to do that for them, then you'd see the same result
08:35:04 <Rubidium> maybe it isn't used as actual server, but... maybe it's that "spy tool"
08:35:20 <planetmaker> dihedral, I'm quite sure you could successfully sued if one can prove that you crashed a server on purpose
08:35:45 <dihedral> which is a very small chance 'if'
08:36:13 <planetmaker> that maybe as it is. Doesn't make it legal ;-)
08:36:28 <dihedral> never said it was legal
08:36:34 <dihedral> just said no court would go for it :-P
08:36:35 <planetmaker> be right and receive justice are two different things ;-)
08:37:06 <dihedral> being in the right and receiving injustice happens too
08:37:44 <dihedral> i could use an exploit and then file charges against myself :-P
08:40:01 * SmatZ imagines someone going to police "someone with IP 123.42.56.98 killed my OpenTTD game server, find him!" and the policemen actuall caring about that
08:40:55 <dihedral> for one thing they first need to prove i killed the game on purpose
08:41:20 <SmatZ> I think police wouldn't waste resources on that
08:42:02 <SmatZ> was there money loss caused by that? no? ... hahah :p
08:42:27 <dihedral> if it was a WoW server, that might be different :-P
08:42:46 <dihedral> but then the "person" filing charges would have cash too
08:42:50 <planetmaker> specially crafted clients ...
08:43:22 <dihedral> who's talking of specially crafted clients? :-P
08:55:54 <dihedral> planetmaker, write a forums thread :-P
08:56:08 <dihedral> asking server admins of old versions to update / stop their server :-P
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09:30:02 <TomyLobo> autorenew should be done before the train is started, not after it's stopped
09:30:13 <TomyLobo> it keeps replacing trains i'm about to sell
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09:35:31 <SmatZ> TomyLobo: you sell them for the full price anyway
09:36:34 <Nite_Owl> The planting of trees is broken in r20757 but does work in r20750.
09:37:40 <Nite_Owl> You cannot plant them at all.
09:38:37 <planetmaker> Nite_Owl, works for me?
09:39:17 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: maybe you have invisible trees? ctrl+shift+2?
09:39:52 <Nite_Owl> nope - not invisible - let me double check
09:40:44 <Terkhen> does it give some kind of error when you try?
09:40:52 <SmatZ> for me too, however it seems there is one change - when you overbuild tile with 4 trees, you get 1 trees again
09:41:24 <Nite_Owl> no error message - give me a moment
09:42:52 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: can be caused by r20753
09:43:17 <Nite_Owl> Very odd - it is not letting me plant trees at all
09:43:40 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: what compiler do you use?
09:44:04 <Nite_Owl> download the nightly
09:46:27 <Nite_Owl> previous day's nightly - r20750 - works perfectly
09:48:50 <SmatZ> [11:40:52] <SmatZ> for me too, however it seems there is one change - when you overbuild tile with 4 trees, you get 1 trees again <== and I can't reproduce taht anymore
09:49:03 <Terkhen> Nite_Owl: I can plant trees with openttd-trunk-r20757-windows-win64
09:49:31 <Nite_Owl> Just had a thought - give me another moment
09:49:38 <Terkhen> SmatZ: I can't either, maybe it does not happen with all kinds of tiles
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09:50:30 <Rubidium> so ask for his savegame
09:50:41 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: can you build stations? convert rail? terraform large areas? demolish area? anything, where you need to select some tile area?
09:50:54 <Rubidium> won't work when he thinks you just want to steal his savegame instead of actually helping him
09:51:24 <Rubidium> after all, he might not see why the savegame might be important for figuring out which setting(s) cause the problem
09:53:23 <Nite_Owl> if you have the "left click scrolling" enabled in the advanced settings then you cannot build anything
09:53:46 <Nite_Owl> it was not that way in the past
09:53:55 <SmatZ> it shouldn't work that way
09:56:39 <Nite_Owl> I knew there had to be a reason and/or something had changed
09:58:09 <Nite_Owl> Rational thought works every time
10:01:57 <TomyLobo> does openttd run on s60?
10:03:12 <Nite_Owl> I tried to tell someone about this last night but forgot about the time difference
10:05:46 <Nite_Owl> being that the sun will soon be up here I have to get to bed eventually
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10:16:24 <Nite_Owl> As the sun slowly rises and light begins to filter through my window I will leave it in the more than capable hands of you developer type gentlemen - Good day and good luck - Read You Soon
10:26:15 <TomyLobo> that totally reminded me of transarctica
10:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a weird game...
10:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it came with no manual, but it had copy protection asking for words from the manual
10:27:52 <TomyLobo> yeah, mine came without a manual too *whistle*
10:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was actually a _legal_ version...
10:30:23 <TomyLobo> i never had legal problems with mine either
10:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i hope they mean "zimbabwe dollars" there...
10:34:10 <TomyLobo> you should ask to borrow their time machine
10:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they're mike meyers and ask for "one trillion dollars", or they invoke their "death star" :p
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11:01:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20759 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp window.cpp): -Fix (r20753): it wasn't possible to build anything when left button scrolling was active
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11:03:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20760 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_func.h): -Cleanup (r20753): remove unused CheckMouseOverVehicle()
11:05:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20761 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_func.h): -Codechange: make PlaceObject() static
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11:18:54 <TomyLobo> SmatZ class-static or namespace-static? :)
11:22:22 <SmatZ> TomyLobo: compilation-unit-static :p
11:25:07 <TomyLobo> that is namespace-static :)
11:27:02 <TomyLobo> i'd love trains that work like boats
11:27:24 <TomyLobo> i.e. you can cram as many as you want down a single line
11:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a trivial code change ;)
11:28:21 <TomyLobo> and it's not just going to make them crash? :)
11:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's exactly the place to change... the crash handler
11:29:49 <TomyLobo> and the signalling too eh?
11:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can live without that, if you force proceed the trains out of the depot
11:31:23 <TomyLobo> and remove all signals ^^
11:32:03 <TomyLobo> atm i'd be happy if i could make my trains share a platform
11:35:21 <planetmaker> build a normal track tile between
11:39:52 <Terkhen> use ships for everything instead :P
11:39:55 <TomyLobo> i mean full length trains
11:40:39 * avdg hates fake mail on mailinglists -_-
11:40:54 <avdg> do you have a virus, download this -right-
11:41:26 <TomyLobo> for that exact reason
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13:11:11 * fjb has a job interview this evening.
13:11:46 * Belugas wishes fjb a successfull evening!
13:12:09 <fjb> Thank you very much. I need more luck than anything else.
13:15:44 <planetmaker> and I keep my thumbs crossed, fjb :-)
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14:31:06 * fjb ist going to Wolfsburg, winks at planetmaker.
14:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> a "wink" in english is something slightly different than "winken" in german ;)
14:44:13 * planetmaker waves back at fjb
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15:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... which idiot makes a multi-line editbox, and then limits the content to 100 characters?
15:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell can you do with that kind of limited space?
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15:29:46 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: 100 empty lines?
15:31:30 <avdg> whats usefull about 100 empty lines :p
15:31:45 <Terkhen> they are easy to understand and learn
15:31:49 <planetmaker> you get a seemingly clean backlog
15:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: newline could be 2 characters ;)
15:32:57 <avdg> unicode bom and newline?
15:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: unicode bom is only used by wordpad and utf16-texts.
15:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure which one
15:34:21 <avdg> or any bad code editor :p
15:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a stupid thing to do anyway
15:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> other question, what's the quickest way to turn an image into a pdf?
15:35:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: get a CGA display, then they are sufficient for 2.5 lines
15:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the pdf should only include that one image (or three images on three pages)
15:37:05 <frosch123> ghostscript can encode multiple files into one
15:37:19 <frosch123> it has input and output for several formats, including pdf and various image formats
15:37:44 <frosch123> you just have to understand its commandline syntax :p
15:39:09 <frosch123> otoh, google suggests to use imagemagick
15:39:23 <frosch123> convert *.png outputfile.pdf
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16:34:03 <avdg> Hmm… I am thinking about categorising the wiki
16:37:18 <Rubidium> I'd categorise it as a mess :)
16:38:01 <avdg> its hard to tell if we have duplicates
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17:27:50 <avdg> I am just wondering if there are still commits left for improving the water code
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17:32:40 <avdg> there is a bug if you build a hanger on a bouy
17:34:36 <VVG> I downloaded the cd.diff of cargodist for 20756, installed tortoisegit to apply it. It patches the files already present but doesn't seem to create new ones. I'm lost here, any advice?
17:39:18 <fonsinchen> VVG: Maybe that's probably because /dev/null doesn't exist on Windows. I guess TortoiseGit is just as stupid as TortoiseSvn ...
17:40:29 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: reports always go to bugs.openttd.org, and you never need to ask if you should report something, only search the previously mentioned site for similar reports...
17:40:53 <avdg> I'm holding them too long
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17:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: don't use tortoise for patching, use command line patch
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17:44:32 <VVG> isn't tortoise is just a frontend for command line versions?
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20762 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 16 changes by mefisteron
17:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ido - 8 changes by Edwardo
17:45:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: no, that's the problem...
17:45:57 <Terkhen> yeah, but usually it does not work very well
17:54:14 <VVG> what command line patch tools are there avaible for windows?
17:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> mingw/msys contains patch.exe
18:01:03 <VVG> what about standalone versions? i don't think i need mingw
18:02:33 <glx> mingw/msys one is \n only, gnuwin32 one understands \r\n
18:06:23 <VVG> hm, while tortoise failed, the msysgit toirtoise required, if used directly, did creat needed files
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18:18:58 <TomyLobo> VVG you need a compiler too
18:22:34 <TomyLobo> VVG and no, tortoise is an end-to-end solution
18:23:08 <TomyLobo> tortoiseshit i mean git is different
18:29:41 <VVG> i don't quite follow you here
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18:33:35 <CitroN> Hello. Im a member of ClanMega and im playing OpenTTD over 2 year. I tried SimuTrans and i seen, OpenTTD could be a way funnyer with custom airports and underground rails-depots-stations. So if possible, can you add them? Seems like OpenTTD doesnt need anything more. Just needs that so rails should go underground too. and (not as needed as underground rails)
18:34:18 <dihedral> i guess it will not take long
18:34:28 <dihedral> might be in trunk the day after tomorrow
18:34:38 <dihedral> might be the evening though
18:34:46 <dihedral> so not in the next nightly for about 3 days
18:34:47 <CitroN> i thought it would get over 2 months
18:34:59 <dihedral> where'd you get that from?
18:35:17 <dihedral> just needs some adding a few little tidd bits here and there
18:35:21 <CitroN> i seen that on simutrans
18:35:30 <dihedral> missuse the wormholes from the tunnels for underground
18:36:13 <CitroN> openttd needs that, electric rails will go in wormholes to underground rail system
18:36:36 <dihedral> why nobody else ever game up with that genious idea :-)
18:37:14 <CitroN> i hope you not kidding and you someone will add that
18:37:42 <dihedral> Rubidium, may i add that ^ to qdb?
18:38:52 <CitroN> check simutrans with add-ons if you like, its fantastic! rails go underground, they take turns they stop at underground stations
18:39:36 <dihedral> VVG - it is way nicer than flaming someone for not searching the forums
18:40:10 <CitroN> so its alrdy on forums? search engine sux :S
18:41:00 <dihedral> ho man - i so enjoyed that :-P
18:42:05 <CitroN> its what will make openttd best strategy transport game
18:42:55 <CitroN> theres alot of another games like that with good new ideas
18:43:16 <CitroN> best, but will be a way better with tis
18:46:25 <VVG> iirc, when i tried cargodist some loong time ago, it didn't maintained savemgame compatibily between versions very well. Is it safe in this respect now?
18:48:02 <CitroN> cargodist is fantastic! we using g7af9cfd7 version as clan
18:48:14 <dihedral> just lacks underground and such
18:48:21 <CitroN> it have cargodist infrashare
18:51:01 <Ammler> CitroN: new is patch or is2?
18:52:13 <CitroN> its infrashare+cargodist (maybe cargodest) merged trunk
18:54:13 <CitroN> how do i wave to hi someone xp ?
18:54:55 <__ln__> CitroN: raise your hand and move it left and right
18:55:10 <yorick> dihedral: stop making fun of the noobs :P
18:55:59 <yorick> argh...stop using the g7af9cfd7 version please
18:56:08 <yorick> that's like 10 months old
18:57:23 <__ln__> yorick: was it you who was going go rewrite ottd in C#?
18:57:40 <CitroN> server usez g7af9cfd xp how to dont use it
18:57:41 <dihedral> no - i do not think it was yorick :-P
18:57:44 <yorick> __ln__: no, I was the who was going to go rewrite ottd in python
18:57:50 <dihedral> <yorick> dihedral: stop making fun of the noobs :P <- meee? what?
18:58:13 <CitroN> who noob who makes fun whats fun !
18:58:21 <yorick> dihedral: oh...sorry...I ment the other dihedral :-)
18:58:46 <Rubidium> dihedral: what makes you think I have something to say about that?
18:59:03 <CitroN> so underground rails possible? :D
19:00:45 <Rubidium> CitroN: possible: yes, going to happen any time soon: unlikely, unless *you* code it
19:00:47 <yorick> hmm...my keyboard stopped working
19:01:32 <dihedral> Rubidium, because it was kinda amusing - at least to me :-P
19:02:27 <Rubidium> so if something is amusing I have to say whether it's okay to do something with it?
19:02:32 <CitroN> so everyone suckin n sleeping in front of computer there? i can code that well
19:04:34 <planetmaker> <CitroN> so everyone suckin n sleeping in front of computer there? i can code that well <-- well... like two months and the patch is trunk-ready? ;-)
19:04:58 <yorick> CitroN: come on...you can code it
19:05:39 <CitroN> just dont know dat openttd 's codings :)
19:05:56 <CitroN> and i can do that in a year
19:06:30 <Terkhen> we'll be waiting for it :)
19:06:53 <CitroN> cmon guys someone can do that faster
19:08:36 <CitroN> not in openttd 1.0.5 or somthn. jst make trunk we can use in new clanmega version maybe, <yorick> we can?
19:09:02 <yorick> CitroN: stop using the clanmega version
19:09:40 <dihedral> this is totally ammusing
19:10:00 <Rubidium> CitroN: just use simutrans, after all it's much better
19:10:19 <yorick> CitroN is being CitroN
19:10:35 <Rubidium> and yes, I could probably implement the issue faster... but I'm not going to do it as I can't be bothered
19:10:54 <CitroN> <Yorick> im playing in madness server. server usez g7af9cfd7
19:11:07 <planetmaker> <CitroN> cmon guys someone can do that faster <-- probably. But there's obviously not someone who can do it faster who is as much interested in it as you
19:11:11 <yorick> CitroN: then complain to the server
19:11:31 <Rubidium> and yes... I was sucking my thumb and sleeping in front of my computer a while ago. It was very pleasant
19:11:36 <planetmaker> Things are developed because a person puts own time into something this person considers worthwhile
19:12:28 <CitroN> simutrans no more works on my machine *.*
19:13:25 <CitroN> but i newer coded openttd and dunno what it usez
19:15:19 <yorick> CitroN: how are these arguments for us to do it for you
19:15:36 <Rubidium> then file a bug report at simutrans' developers about that regression
19:16:13 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
19:16:17 <Rubidium> talking about how great, but not working, simutrans is in here doesn't magically fix something in simutrans
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19:16:23 <dihedral> perhaps simutrans devs can code it into openttd? :-D
19:16:37 <Rubidium> and neither does talking in here magically make features magically appear in trunk
19:16:37 <CitroN> not just me and its my normal talk. i didnt want argue n make you do that like this
19:18:13 <CitroN> magicaly trunk ready; link www.gof...yourself.com/openttd/trunks/magically_ones/automatic_codings/underground_system.rar
19:19:53 <yorick> I still bet it's a trojan
19:19:53 <dihedral> CitroN, if you are the one wanting something from the devs, i'd suggest not using nasty language
19:20:24 <CitroN> its not nasty for meh, and then ill try not to be
19:20:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20763 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4113](r20749): The bridgetest on building shipdepots can no longer rely on being only called for clear water tiles.
19:22:39 <CitroN> any Dev s here? i have a idea! rails goin underground from wormholes and take turns and stops at staions like how is it on surface!
19:23:18 <dihedral> go back to clanmega, play simutrans and other games you like
19:23:42 <yorick> dihedral: don't send him to us, we don't want him :P
19:24:12 <dihedral> what did you do? send him here?
19:24:16 <planetmaker> you both are quite nasty ;-)
19:24:22 <dihedral> well - then there's still Luukland :-D
19:24:33 <yorick> dihedral: well I sent PeterT here and now he's just fine :P
19:24:36 <planetmaker> CitroN, You sure had devs read that
19:24:56 <dihedral> planetmaker, you volunteering? :-D
19:25:15 <planetmaker> But that doesn't change the fact that only people who are interested in a feature will work on it
19:25:25 <planetmaker> I'm definitely not volunteering
19:25:44 <planetmaker> There are many more places which I'd rather attack, if I had MUCH more time
19:25:47 <yorick> I know someone who could do it! CitroN!
19:26:13 <dihedral> planetmaker, i meant volunteering to 'accomodate' mr brains here
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19:27:28 <planetmaker> but there's like 'don't feed...' ;-)
19:27:49 <planetmaker> but he's no troll. He just doesn't know what he's asking for
19:28:09 * yorick was typing "he's just stupid"
19:28:46 <planetmaker> ignorant maybe. Stupid I don't know nor care to claim
19:29:38 <CitroN> not good idea? who like that?
19:30:08 <planetmaker> CitroN, it's not about 'good idea' or 'bad idea'
19:30:10 <frosch123> CitroN: devs are ignorant fools, who never do what other suggest
19:30:26 <planetmaker> It's that you ask people to invest months of their time into YOUR fancy
19:31:20 <yorick> CitroN: you need learn a bit more english, too :)
19:31:27 <VVG> fooling around, ignoring suggestions i think
19:32:03 <VVG> anyone playing recent cargodist here?
19:32:07 <yorick> fixing bugs, doing stuff not-openttd-related, implementing somebody elses ideas
19:32:10 <planetmaker> devs are those guys and gals who always change that piece of code which will break your favourite patch in the most unfortunate way
19:32:11 <frosch123> VVG: don't forget "turning down patches"
19:32:38 <planetmaker> and they do all that for no obvious reason
19:32:38 <frosch123> and "defend from forks" :p
19:32:40 <VVG> frosch123: didn't know about it, you didn't mention it in a previous comment :)
19:32:56 * planetmaker offers frosch123 a fork with a fly :-P
19:33:12 <VVG> denfe from fokrs doesn't count, anyone sane will defend against them when attacked :p
19:33:13 * frosch123 already has a spoon with coffee
19:33:18 <andythenorth> frosch123: devs are those people who politely ignore my suggestions :)
19:34:10 <CitroN> can underground idea come true?
19:34:21 <planetmaker> yes. But *someone* has to code it
19:34:35 <planetmaker> And that *someone* is either you - or not likely
19:34:46 <planetmaker> yes *someone* can also do it.
19:34:56 <planetmaker> But *someone* is not as interested in it as you
19:35:14 <VVG> a bettet question will be "will someone do it"
19:35:17 <planetmaker> even if it is a reasonable suggestion for enhancement
19:35:35 <CitroN> need find a dev thats interested and will do that. who can do that? (can=can and will)
19:36:03 <VVG> good luck with that definition of can
19:36:34 <planetmaker> CitroN, development mostly is about "I do" and not "I find someone who fulfills my wish"
19:37:40 <CitroN> if i do ll someone help?
19:38:26 <CitroN> all devs here and readed that i think
19:38:35 <DorpsGek> i can tell you the ports openttd uses, if that helps?
19:39:07 <CitroN> 3979 3979 3979 3979 ...
19:40:10 <planetmaker> you forgot one...
19:41:36 <planetmaker> you forgot one...
19:41:45 <CitroN> and some ol versions 3978
19:43:12 <dihedral> CitroN, go read wiki.openttd.org, perhaps that'll help you ^^
19:44:34 * planetmaker pets DorpsGek and calls
19:44:36 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
19:44:50 <planetmaker> looks quite recent to me
19:45:30 <CitroN> i hosted server from both 3979 with udp + tcp
19:45:53 <planetmaker> did you read Dorpsgek's reply?
19:47:23 <CitroN> and i said i hosted server from both 3979 with udp + tcp works like that too
19:48:18 <CitroN> lol, devs dont know what to do. roadmap says no idea
19:48:18 <planetmaker> yes. If you accept that you are not listed in the server list
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19:48:45 <CitroN> i was in server list and played with my friends (not in same lan )
19:49:13 <fjb> Don't know. The interview was ok.
19:49:28 <frosch123> who interviewed you?
19:49:33 <CitroN> and command screened openttd says if your hosting work
19:49:50 <fjb> My may be next boss interviewt me.
19:49:58 <frosch123> ah, a job interview
19:50:06 <frosch123> i thought you gave a big show in tv or so :p
19:52:43 <CitroN> yorick thats yould be good with graphics
19:52:56 <yorick> CitroN: then go bother SmatZ
19:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> was that ever in a usable state?
19:53:27 <planetmaker> please, he's such a nice guy. Don't wake up dead sheep
19:53:29 <dihedral> yorick, that's so mean, what has SmatZ done to you??
19:53:35 <planetmaker> and let him spend his time worthwhile
19:53:50 <yorick> CitroN: hmm...never mind
19:53:58 <yorick> CitroN: you should do it yourself if you ever want this done
19:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> about ten lines above yours...
19:54:18 <CitroN> maybe i can help him to complete
19:54:57 <dihedral> <Eddi|zuHause> about ten lines above yours... <- LOL
19:54:59 <frosch123> CitroN: just take a guess how old that thing is :)
19:55:34 * planetmaker feels a youngling wrt OpenTTD
19:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: well, it was 11...
19:56:07 <dihedral> it was still quite funny :-)
19:56:45 <Rubidium> yes, SmatZ has been 11 years old for quite a while
19:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, how badly can you fail in reading comprehension?
19:57:51 <frosch123> oh, i need to give CitroN a hint. the dates on the webpage are the dates when the files were copied to the new server, not when they were created :p
19:59:03 <yorick> it's based on a revision from 2007-09
19:59:42 <frosch123> i would have guessed february/march 2008
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19:59:53 <CitroN> what hapenned to SmatZ
20:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> man... i've been here way too long...
20:00:15 <SmatZ> nah, alive and kicking :)
20:00:44 * planetmaker hugs smatzy-patchy
20:00:51 <CitroN> you guy made that underground- rails idea
20:00:53 <frosch123> hmm, though as it was started at r11060, it was likely not started by a dev :p
20:01:14 <CitroN> i come there with same idea
20:01:18 <SmatZ> CitroN: certainly I wasn't the first :p I tried to code something, but left that soon
20:01:34 <CitroN> dun left! i want code it again
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20:02:31 <CitroN> not viaducts. i just want that underground rails
20:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> they are the same things
20:03:06 <planetmaker> CitroN, may I emphasize the important part?
20:03:16 <SmatZ> "3D" underground rail is a big change to game design
20:03:20 <planetmaker> "i want code it again"
20:03:27 <planetmaker> let that be followed by tasks ;-)
20:05:33 <Rubidium> so... what about going back to freenode?
20:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that certainly was a threat!
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21:09:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20764 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: minor coding style fix
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21:39:38 <VVG> How do you change drives in windows command promt?
21:40:40 <VVG> too simple to even guess :(
21:41:15 <VVG> it is. it drove me crazy a few times when cd x: did nothing :(
21:42:09 <avdg> I prefer unix, through the filestructure is more complex
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21:42:46 * avdg hopes that microsoft will work on it :p
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21:43:10 * Rubidium thinks it's stupid that DOS and Windows use \ for path seperators
21:43:23 <Rubidium> "yay" for backwards compatability...
21:43:46 <VVG> windows versions of make doesn't like makefile.msvc :(
21:44:21 <Rubidium> and then it works just fine
21:44:55 <Rubidium> (or nobody has told me yet that the compile farm fails to make actual binaries)
21:45:45 <planetmaker> :-O Like in no windows binaries the last days?
21:45:46 <Rubidium> then in what way doesn't make like it?
21:45:58 <Rubidium> planetmaker: more like the last... say 2 years?
21:46:19 <planetmaker> he... seems they must have worked then.
21:46:45 <planetmaker> and a small unimportant part was broken... or what is it?
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21:48:32 * Rubidium can't quite follow planetmaker's thoughts
21:48:49 <avdg> vvg: do you have these tools?
21:49:01 <Rubidium> doesn't look like it :)
21:49:09 <avdg> so yes, is the location of the tools added in you PATH :p
21:49:42 <VVG> the download page for make says all dependancies are included :(
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21:50:31 <Rubidium> VVG: that's like saying MS Office installs all its dependencies, until you find out a font is missing. Is that the fault of MS Office?
21:52:32 <SmatZ> the bug you pointed out is fixed
21:52:55 <Nite_Owl> Yes it is - thank you
21:54:07 <VVG> Rubidium: unfortunatly, no. But you still can blame it, right?
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21:54:22 <Nite_Owl> The left click scrolling and the right click scrolling do not work the same though. I cannot remember if they did in the past or not.
21:54:45 <SmatZ> right click scrolling works every time
21:55:03 <VVG> is this an eqivalent of AWK?
21:55:10 <SmatZ> left click works only when you don't click a station/depot/town, when you don't have any build tool active...
21:55:35 <Rubidium> VVG: no, you need mawk or gawk
21:55:40 <SmatZ> when nothing else can be done when left-clicking, viewport is scrolled
21:56:39 <Nite_Owl> right click - cursor stays in the middle of the screen and scrolling is unlimited. left click - cursor moves as you scroll and you can only scroll as far as the edge of the screen. scrolling stops when the cursor reaches the edge of the screen
21:57:19 <Rubidium> that has always been the case
21:57:37 <Rubidium> the let click scrolling is meant for stuff like touchpads
21:57:42 <SmatZ> one could say it is a bug
21:57:44 <glx> VVG: it's in textutils IIRC
21:58:04 <SmatZ> also the fact the mouse cursor is moving a little when doing lmb scrolling
21:58:32 <Rubidium> SmatZ: if you care enough to break touchpads and the like (and explain why you've broken it), go ahead :)
21:58:37 <VVG> glx: what?, for gawk there is a separate download, which i found. i now lack cp and cut
21:59:18 <Nite_Owl> I had enabled left click scrolling for some reason or another which is what lead to this. I have it disabled again now.
21:59:23 <VVG> yep, just looked through it contents, thanks
21:59:35 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I'm not touching anything :)
22:03:03 <VVG> that's with gawk, mb is should try nawk?
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22:11:02 <VVG> doesn't help, mawk or nawk. i'm stuck :(
22:11:42 <glx> but you may need a wrapper named awk
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22:12:07 <VVG> a few lines up the log with error i get now
22:12:59 <VVG> it's gawk that installs awk and a bunch of other utils, bot mawk and nawk from gnuwin page only install nawk.exe and mawk.exe
22:13:27 <VVG> i went with gawk first, fail, tried them later, even more of a fail
22:14:08 <Nite_Owl> Food stuff has arrived and I need to unload the car - later all
22:15:56 <VVG> in nix "make -f Makefile.msvc bundle PLATFORM=WIN32" works flawlessly, right?
22:19:21 <VVG> can it be that i lack some more tools just don't get any notice of that?
22:23:11 <glx> hmm the awk error looks like 'VERSIONS := $(shell AWK="$(AWK)" "$(ROOT_DIR)/findversion.sh")' did something weird
22:23:43 <Rubidium> or rather, no shell whatsoever
22:25:45 <glx> seems it has only cmd.exe as shell
22:27:44 <VVG> i run it from cmd.exe, that's for sure
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22:35:32 <VVG> removed all the gnuwina and installed msys, it worked
22:36:29 <VVG> however, it also gave me findversion.sh line 75 svnversion: not found, and the same for svn. What do these 2 do?
22:36:46 <ABCRic> Meh, just made a NewGRF with an industry that produces passengers and mail, a bit buggy though. GRFMaker sure is useful.
22:36:47 <ABCRic> OpenTTD could use an "official" NewGRF-making tool, but I guess it's more fun if the community tries to do it :D Besides, don't want the devs to have that extra work :)
22:37:35 <CitroN> then really everyone would see devs useless
22:37:51 <glx> VVG: part of svn command line version
22:39:40 <glx> will give you a standard svn
22:39:47 <VVG> will it interfere with tortoisesvn?
22:40:08 <glx> unless tortoise is stupid :)
22:40:16 <ABCRic> I got both installed and everything is fine :)
22:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> version mismatches may be evil
22:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but otherwise they shouldn't get in each others way
22:40:58 <VVG> also, how can i make an archived bundle, bundle.zip for example and have it nicely named along the lines of openttd-trunk-r20762-windows-win32.zip?
22:41:06 <ABCRic> I installed tortoise because of the interface, but I needed the command line version to make my OpenTTD-updating script
22:41:21 <glx> TortoiseSVN 1.6.10, built against Subversion 1.6.12. Released 16. July 2010. <-- should be ok on that point
22:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: "make bundle_zip" or similar
22:43:15 <glx> make bundle just prepare the bundle
22:43:41 <glx> ie put everything in bundle dir
22:43:45 <VVG> make -f Makefile.msvc bundle PLATFORM=WIN32 is the command i used and it gave a bindle dir
22:44:03 <VVG> glx: err, is at a cmd i need to run?
22:45:02 <VVG> after make -f just rund make bundle?
22:45:34 <glx> make -f Makefile.msvc bundle PLATFORM=WIN32 <-- it's already done ;)
22:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: in whatever command you use, just replace "bundle" by "bundle_zip"
22:45:54 <glx> you'll need zip.exe of course
22:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or "bundle_rar", ...
22:46:33 <VVG> time to go looking for zip
22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (yes, i know, it's a bad joke)
22:48:45 <VVG> will a native zip or rar suffice?
22:48:51 <glx> zip, 7z, gzip, bzip2, lzma, lha, dmg, exe
22:49:48 <VVG> i need to have any of these in path, right?
22:50:08 <glx> just the one you want to use
22:51:13 <Rubidium> and it's inferior to 7z
22:51:35 <glx> Rubidium: still many people think rar is better ;)
22:51:39 <VVG> accidentaly, i have 7z already, though i don't now recall how it got here, since i use winrar exclusivaly
22:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: afair it's "free as in beer", just not "free as in speech"
22:52:36 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: exactly, so I need to go through extra hoops to install it
22:52:47 <Rubidium> i.e. I won't install it
22:52:53 <VVG> every time i press tab to fill a path in msys it makes my pc go BEEP, is there a way to stop it from beeping?
22:53:26 <ABCRic> I always use 7zip for rar files :)
22:53:45 <glx> the worse I've seen is zip in rar
22:54:07 <ABCRic> glx: zip files inside rar files?
22:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> everybody knows that .lnk are the most compressed files!
22:54:41 <ABCRic> well, you have to admit it *does* give the impression that it will be compressed better
22:54:52 <ABCRic> ...to the ignorant user
22:55:11 <Rubidium> glx: does that beat "files in self extracting executable in self extracting executable in zip in rar"?
22:55:12 <glx> anyway 7zip is enough to open everything
22:55:23 <ABCRic> Eddi: too bad no-one invented a .lnk compressor yet
22:55:40 <VVG> i stick to rar since ages ago, used to it, and it just works for me
22:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: i think you missed the joke...
22:56:36 <ABCRic> no, but I might have missed a 'xD' at the end of the line :P
22:57:01 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: I know people "saving" games by just moving the shortcut from desktop to an usb drive
22:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: there was a !
22:57:38 <ABCRic> Eddi: at the end of my response
22:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the "use smilies like interpunctuation" works both ways :)
22:58:21 <ABCRic> glx: but it's so convenient...
22:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: anyway, you probably should have said "decompressor"
22:58:26 <SpComb> .lnk to a public internet-accessible SMB share
22:58:42 <SpComb> observe this innovative new cloud technology
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22:59:39 <ABCRic> SpComb: In the feature, all data will be stored in remote places and you can access them from anywhere.
23:00:24 <ABCRic> SpComb: Also, Google will take over the world.
23:00:42 <ABCRic> *after* 2012 ends said world
23:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you need some serious redundancy and encryption for that to work reliably
23:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ABCRic: the world ends on average every two years...
23:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if you believe everybody who predicts the end of the world and constructs some remotely vague theory around it
23:02:06 <ABCRic> Eddi: but 2012 is a more known date for a world-end
23:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are plenty of "known" dates for end of the world...
23:02:51 <ABCRic> and also Mayans not having any more space to finish the calendar
23:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just because it's currently hyped, doesn't mean it's the one that will come true
23:03:17 <VVG> great, now it produces nicely named archive, thanks a lot
23:03:41 <ABCRic> you don't have to tell *me* that. I'm a complete don't-believe-'till-I-see-it
23:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> weird, when someone starts a sentence with "great" i expect something sarcastic-ironic following it...
23:04:09 <VVG> should have gone with msys right away instead of gnuwin, it was actually easy and straighforward
23:05:12 <VVG> Eddi|zuHause: you might need help there :p
23:05:20 <ABCRic> Eddi: doesn't happen *every* time...
23:05:36 <VVG> wait, i have NT instead of win32 in the name :(
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23:07:38 <VVG> I supply PLATFORM=WIN32 and get Windows_NT in the name of a bundle
23:08:15 <Rubidium> VVG: guess what... Win32 != WIN32
23:09:15 <ABCRic> well, I'm off. gn everyone
23:09:37 <VVG> this, well, is strange, no?
23:09:46 <Rubidium> and the Windows_NT comes from your global OS variable
23:11:42 <VVG> Is this normal for winXP to have OS = Windows_NT?
23:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> XP is just a fancy name for NT 5.2
23:13:25 <glx> vista is 6.0, 7 is 6.1 ;)
23:15:32 <glx> this page used to be more complete, but as they dropped win9x support...
23:15:57 <glx> platform dropped = doc disapeared
23:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the docs probably make the largest part of the support ;)
23:20:00 <glx> indeed, and it's fun when you need to fix something win32 related and need it to work on win9x too
23:44:15 <VVG> hm, in turnk, autofill rounds the time taken to nearest day. If i set it, using a patch, to something smaller than DAY_TICKS, what implications it can have? A simple quick test with save/load suggest it's nothing to care about.
23:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a compile time constant, you can freely change it...
23:52:20 <VVG> assert(v->timetable_start_ticks_offset != NULL); here, does the NULL mean not initialized, and not integer zero?
23:53:06 <SmatZ> NULL means NULL pointer
23:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks weird
23:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the variable doesn't sound like a pointer, so comparing with the null pointer doesn't seem to make any sense
23:54:28 <SmatZ> VVG: I can't find that code in OTTD sources
23:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so next step would be to check what type the variable has
23:54:55 <VVG> i want to make sure that a variable is initialized and set to some value, whatever it is
23:55:32 <SmatZ> I am not sure OpenTTD is the best place to learn C/C++
23:56:26 <VVG> plain copypast works wonders sometimes, but as seen here, might be wrong
continue to next day ⏵