IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-09-04
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00:16:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20733 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: when overbuilding an object with an industry, clear the complete object
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03:55:53 <DorpsGek> TruePika: Xrufuian was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Xrufuian> Right, my number one rule: Don't assume anything.
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09:19:38 <Wolf01> OH OH OH Merry Saturday to all
09:20:44 <Alberth> merry xmas to you as well
09:21:22 <Wolf01> Xmas? Who said it's Xmas?
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09:22:33 <Alberth> perhaps I am a bit early this year
09:25:17 <StefanR> good morning guys :). I had a little error during compilling openttd in x64 with MSVC++. Here the error:
09:25:18 <StefanR> .. \ Src \ genworld_gui.cpp (336): error C2664: 'Show Error Message': can not convert parameter 3 from 'int' to 'Warning Level' not possible
09:25:18 <StefanR> 4> Conversion to enumeration requires an explicit cast (static_cast operator or a cast or function in the C format)
09:25:47 <StefanR> the revision is 19615 with the extra large map patch
09:25:56 <StefanR> could someone help me?
09:26:32 <Alberth> without large map patch :)
09:26:41 <StefanR> but the patch is only availible for 19615
09:27:03 <Yexo> for help with that patch your best of in the forum topic where you downloaded it from
09:27:14 <Wolf01> then apply the patch to that version
09:27:22 <Alberth> you can try a simple cast
09:27:29 <Rubidium> sounds like you applied a patch to a version of OpenTTD it's not supposed to be applied to
09:27:40 <Rubidium> Alberth: nah, that'll definitely not do the right thing :)
09:27:42 <Alberth> but problems belong in the extra-large map patch
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09:53:14 * avdg thinks blocks isn't the solution for a better ship pf, except with better pf and more caching
10:07:57 * andythenorth ponders Tow Boats
10:08:12 <andythenorth> FISH tow boats can have 1, 2, 4 barges
10:08:30 <andythenorth> what's preferable: 3 different ships in the buy menu, or 1 ship with capacity refit?
10:09:12 <Alberth> the latter makes more sense to me, as the ship stays the same
10:09:50 <andythenorth> Would also allow for 'go to depot and refit'
10:10:02 <andythenorth> which I never use, don't know why :P
10:10:58 <Alberth> changing the #barges by selling a ship, and then buying the (almost) same one again may be a bit weird
10:31:59 * avdg wonders if there is a way to see the path of the ship
10:40:20 <frosch123> why do i always type "hg pull -z" :s
10:40:51 <frosch123> did the fingers on my left hand become shorter?
10:42:47 <Alberth> why not install the 'fetch' extension and type 'hg fetch' instead ?
10:44:08 <frosch123> might be a work around :p
10:44:30 <Alberth> unfortunately, git swapped the pull and fetch concept :(
10:45:26 <Alberth> I do at work, to pull stuff from github. Very complicated
10:46:46 <Terkhen> I never tried git, but hg is very simple to use
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10:47:24 <Alberth> avdg: depends on your mindset. If you are used to svn, I think it is
10:48:02 <avdg> hmm.. it seems I always forget bazaar for some reasons
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10:50:14 <Alberth> have not used bazaar for several years, but it was much simpler than hg, eg no branches.
10:50:36 <Alberth> (other than by cloning the repo)
10:51:50 <fjb> That must have been a very old version.
10:53:11 <Alberth> perhaps I simply skipped those manual pages :) I was still trying to grasp the DVCS concept
10:54:25 <fjb> There is an easy guide to that concept on the bazaar pages now. At least I did understand it.
10:56:42 <andythenorth> FIRS started in Bazaar, but it was easier to go to hg
10:57:59 <Alberth> for me, having mq was a big reason to switch, along with the fact that OpenTTD has a hg mirror
10:58:29 * avdg couldn't escape the "git wave"
11:03:54 <yorick> openttd has a git mirror
11:07:26 <Alberth> but no "mq", and "git commit -a" looks like a major design flaw to me
11:09:33 <Alberth> but no doubt, I am totally missing the point of not wanting -a as option.
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11:17:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20734 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Rename GetScaledIndustryProbability() to GetScaledIndustryGenerationProbability().
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11:29:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20735 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Introduce GetIndustryGamePlayProbability().
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11:46:51 <StefanR> hey...i'm back :). openttd crashes every time on startup. Here you'll find the crash log: http://pastebin.com/MRtHqGCA . Does someone have an idea to solve the problem?
11:47:55 <Terkhen> since it is a modified version (r19009M) you should ask at the patch thread
11:48:30 <Terkhen> yeah, also that... the revision is very old, it could very well be a bug already fixed in current trunk
11:48:56 <Alberth> if you want to solve it, recompile with debugging info enabled, and run the thing in the debugger
11:49:20 <Alberth> that gives you a stack trace so you know where in the code the problem happens
11:49:46 <Alberth> but please don't expect us to solve your problem
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11:59:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20736 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Introduce a new function for trying to create a new industry.
12:02:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20737 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Introduce a function for advertising opening of a new industry.
12:09:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20738 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Introduce a function for getting the number of industries that should be build.
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15:19:10 <zachanima> what the heck is that?
15:19:28 <zachanima> any character above 0x7f doesn't count
15:32:55 <VVG> There is a stack trace that looks like "[00] ./openttd(_ZNK12CrashLogUnix13LogStacktraceEPcPKc+0x43) [0x82a73b3]" What do 0x43 and 0x82a73b3 represent here?
15:35:07 <Alberth> something like: it was about to return to instruction at offset 0x43 in the function, and its stack data is at 0x82a73b3
15:37:24 <VVG> thanks. some unfamiliar magic at work here, no use for me. :)
15:38:32 <Alberth> it becomes ***much*** more useful if you enable debugging information, and use a debugger to dump the stack, then you get nice function names, with parameter values, and line numbers in files
15:41:27 <VVG> that was a stack from a forum. the only way i can debug ottd for now is to use vc++ built-in debugging, which can point to line numbers in some cases, when running a release build. How to use ottd builtin debug properly i dunno.
15:47:55 <Zuu> For a release build you need a symbols file that vc++ generates along with the exe file.
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15:53:39 <VVG> Zuu: automagically with no input from a user?
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15:55:12 <Zuu> IIRC if a crash.dmg file is created by a random user, then if you also have the symbols file created when the binary was built, you can get function names etc. from the crash dump.
15:56:55 <Zuu> Hmm, it looks like the symbols file has the pdb file ending.
15:57:10 <Zuu> If you go to the binaries server you can find it for nightlies etc.
15:57:55 <Zuu> It is mostly only usefull for developers and is therefore not visible from the download frontend page.
16:05:01 <VVG> hm. If vehicle is running in autofill mode and goes to depot for autorenew, will continue in autofill when leaving depot?
16:19:31 <Alberth> sounds useful, perhaps after resetting all its data
16:23:03 <VVG> I found CopyVehicleConfigAndStatistics fuction and now wonder, if it should copy the two vars i introduce in virtual time patch. I found it only now, accidentaly, and had no idea about it before. Also, are there some other places where suchs vars are copied apart from that function?
16:31:25 <andythenorth> is there room in the map array for sea ice?
16:31:35 <andythenorth> (basically allow snowline height to drop to 0)
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16:35:08 <frosch123> that does not require mapstorage. but you need support for newgrf supplied sea tiles. currently there are only canals and rivers
16:35:11 <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes... using feature F :)
16:35:44 <andythenorth> ice would depend on distance to coast
16:35:51 <andythenorth> that's not going to be good for performance is it?
16:37:01 <frosch123> you are rather asking for deep sea and negative height levels
16:37:49 <andythenorth> ice status would only need to update once a month. does that help?
16:39:53 <andythenorth> it would be ice floes, not solid ice sheet
16:40:00 <andythenorth> and ships would need to check ice amount
16:40:06 <andythenorth> hovercraft == no problem
16:40:20 <andythenorth> ice-capable ship == slower
16:40:26 <andythenorth> non-ice ship == stopped :P
16:41:39 <avdg> just a byte that remembers the 'age' of the ice
16:42:10 <frosch123> overspecialises features are usually crap :p
16:46:39 <Alberth> trucks over the ice in the winter :)
16:47:29 <avdg> waterplanes and amphibian verhicles?
16:48:00 <Alberth> waterplanes may be less far away than you think
16:48:04 <andythenorth> waterplanes are possible
16:48:14 <andythenorth> and if waterplanes are possible....hovercraft on land should be :P
16:48:20 <andythenorth> just fly at 0 feet
16:48:43 <Alberth> hovering over the road is trivial :p
16:49:09 <andythenorth> not so good over sea
16:49:17 <andythenorth> a plane with stupid y offset might do it
16:49:38 <avdg> you still need the 'runway'
16:49:57 <avdg> lets say, 3-5 free tiles
16:50:14 <Alberth> nah, 1 tile is more than enough
16:50:39 * avdg tries to avoid such planes
16:50:49 <andythenorth> I was serious about the ice floe idea btw
16:50:53 <andythenorth> less so about hovercraft
16:51:38 <Alberth> not sure how it enhaces game play
16:52:23 <andythenorth> makes it worth choosing different types of ship depending on location
16:52:49 <VVG> Is it ok to use Vehicle *v; FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) {} right in AfterLoadGame()? This is to set some vars, that aren't saved but are used by a patch.
16:52:50 <andythenorth> it is quite specific to Arctic I guess
16:54:32 <Hirundo> There are already speed fractions for sea / canals defined in the grf specs, but not implemented
16:55:37 <andythenorth> bit limited though :D
17:01:44 <Alberth> VVG: I guess so, FOR_ALL_TOWNS seems to be used
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17:16:04 <VVG> Alberth: all references of for_all_towns i found there are inside some if statement. in my case there is no any if.
17:16:30 <VVG> In any case, it does prevent one possible crash :)
17:39:16 <Alberth> look for UpdateExclusiveRights
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20739 /trunk/src/lang/ (esperanto.txt spanish.txt):
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 2 changes by
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 11 changes by Christopher
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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19:14:15 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: screenshot patcher!
19:20:48 <SpComb> I put on my screenshot patcher hat
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19:49:40 <ccfreak2k> What's the difference between a plum and an elephant? They're both purple except for the elephant.
19:52:05 <ccfreak2k> avdg, it's a self.funny Reddit entry.
19:52:10 <ccfreak2k> With all these surprisingly funny jokes.
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19:52:32 <ccfreak2k> What's the difference between a pigeon?
19:52:32 <ccfreak2k> Both wings are the same size, especially the left one.
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21:14:58 * ABCRic wonders when Steam will get an upgrade to diesel, maybe electric
21:15:31 <ABCRic> and when if OpenTTD will ever make it to it, too.
21:16:58 <ABCRic> oh, great. found a file called bs.dll. wonder what it does...
21:21:04 <ABCRic> remind me again, is NewRoads in actual development or just a feature request?
21:21:27 <planetmaker> I'll remind you in 2021 then
21:25:19 <ABCRic> meh, I think it's better if you remind me now. please? :)
21:25:34 <planetmaker> stalled, is my guess
21:26:29 <Yexo> not even started I'd say
21:27:14 <Rubidium> my guess would be stalled as well
21:27:38 <ABCRic> d'aww. Well, I guess it's not exactly as easy as NewTracks...
21:28:00 <Yexo> who said NewTracks was easy?
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21:28:21 <ABCRic> I said it's *as* easy NewTracks.
21:28:28 <ABCRic> It's *even* less easy.
21:28:34 <Yexo> I'd guess it's about as easy/hard
21:30:53 <ABCRic> You can do it, just keep trying :D I'll wander off to play a game I just downloaded...
21:30:54 <planetmaker> petern said it would need more thinking than tracks
21:34:31 <ABCRic> You have GOT to be kidding. Downloaded the game 6.9GB game through steam, now I start it, and it needs to download 1.3GB worth of updates.
21:34:32 <ABCRic> This is where OpenTTD comes in handy. :P :D
21:35:16 <avdg> openttd < 15 mb in most cases :)
21:35:52 <ABCRic> OpenTTD is actually < 50KB daily, 'cause I'm compiling myself :)
21:36:16 <avdg> and thats even multiple os :)
21:37:13 <ABCRic> meh. I still wonder how road vehicles can cross MagLev lines :P
21:37:37 <planetmaker> just drive over it?
21:37:56 <ABCRic> planetmaker: how come they don't fall?
21:38:36 <planetmaker> how come we have level crossings for normal rail?
21:38:52 <planetmaker> and not like the rails as they're on normal tracks where there's no road?
21:39:25 <ABCRic> Normal rail goes *over* the road. MagLev tracks can't
21:40:12 <TomyLobo> they can even go over road *better* than normal rail
21:40:35 <TomyLobo> the graphics are broken though
21:40:58 <TomyLobo> and the collisions *g*
21:47:09 <VVG> real elevated tracks sure would have been nice
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21:48:32 <TomyLobo> well it also means no more driving at 600 dph
21:48:34 * Rubidium sees no reason why maglev crossings are technically impossible
21:49:48 <Rubidium> if they can make pieces of track that can be bent, then it would surely possible to bridge the gaps to make a maglev crossing possible
21:50:11 <Rubidium> whether it's something that should be done at all is completely beyond the point
21:50:21 <TomyLobo> it'd suck the screw off your car :D
21:51:00 <Rubidium> e.g. Shinkansen/TGV tracks can easily get a level crossing, but for safety reasons it's not implemented
21:51:05 <Ammler> yeah, I liked to change the roadcrossing to something like openable bridges
21:51:20 <TomyLobo> Rubidium not cause of the speed
21:51:22 <glx> and not because of the trains
21:51:25 <TomyLobo> it's MAGlev after all
21:51:35 <glx> just because car drivers are stupid
21:51:58 <Ammler> somewhere in the 32bpp thread are sprites, how such a crossing could look
21:52:11 <glx> "oh it's closed, let's try to go through"
21:52:16 <TomyLobo> imagine not only stopping on a level crossing
21:52:36 <TomyLobo> but getting stuck on it cause the track is activated and thus magnetised :D
21:53:20 <TomyLobo> the moving magnetic field would probably fry your electronics first of all
21:56:29 <ABCRic> "there goes me new iPhone 3GS..."
21:56:49 <ABCRic> "at least now I have an excuse to buy the iPhone 4 now!" :P
21:56:49 <TomyLobo> you got that one wrong
21:56:55 <TomyLobo> i think it is "there goes nothing"
21:58:16 <ABCRic> anyways, it's still 1959 here, so I'll just go through the electric rail crossings.
21:59:38 <ABCRic> the industry cargo chains are really useful when using industry GRFs. Gotta thank the devs for that greaat feature :)
21:59:40 <TomyLobo> make an upgrade plan :)
22:00:10 <TomyLobo> actually, i wonder why you cant just upgrade a depot with all trains in it
22:01:09 <ABCRic> because the trains won't be able to run anymore?
22:01:34 <TomyLobo> that's why it'd upgrade the trains as well
22:01:41 <TomyLobo> "with all trains in it"
22:02:16 <ABCRic> because it doesn't know what engines you'll want to upgrade to?
22:02:21 <TomyLobo> i usually skip monorail because upgrading is such a pain
22:02:44 <TomyLobo> ABCRic just copy-paste the interface of the replace tool
22:03:15 <ABCRic> because the devs haven't made that feature yet?
22:04:50 <ABCRic> wait, wait. How can I make an upgrade plan? there are no monorails yet!
22:05:32 <ABCRic> besides, I think I'll keep rail. I'm using the US train set and I'm likin' it :D
22:05:57 <glx> if you have elrail you usually don't have monorail
22:07:02 <ABCRic> oh. but there aren't any MagLevs either. :P
22:09:43 <glx> newgrfs are usually rail->elrail->maglev
22:10:21 <Ammler> and maglev doesn't have cargo
22:11:12 <glx> and maglev has liquid passengers (at signals)
22:11:52 <Rubidium> nah, 686/16 km should be enough to decel reasonably
22:16:39 <De_Ghosty> speed doesn't kill you
22:16:45 <De_Ghosty> it's the acelleration
22:17:40 <ABCRic> and the sensation of being smashed against your seat?
22:18:10 <ABCRic> wall, if you were dumb enough to be standing when the train started?
22:19:52 <ABCRic> I said sensation, but I probably meant feeling. My Portuguese is taking over my English today...
22:20:39 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: but ~43 kilometer should be enough to at least safely decel
22:30:21 <ABCRic> *makes evil face* who cares if the passengers don't make it there alive? they have already paid for their ticket!!1! *evil laughter*
22:31:58 <ABCRic> hmmm... I think the oil extracting industries should be less close-y. I have 5 refineries on the map and no wells/rigs...
22:32:51 <ABCRic> correction: *3* refineries.
22:34:09 <ABCRic> say, am I missing how to sort trains by power source or should I file a Feature Request?
22:34:38 <avdg> pff.. putted some frustration in code :p
22:38:06 <ABCRic> and what does this frustrated code do?
22:39:12 <avdg> its nothing about the code actually
22:41:54 <ABCRic> oh, is php code. I don't understand it either, but I guess that this example is similar enough to basic C++ for me to understand.
22:42:33 <avdg> just 2 functions and 2 calls
22:43:02 <SmatZ> taloissammekinko - the way finnish language works is interesting :)
22:44:08 <SmatZ> I was reading an article about agglutinative languages
22:44:51 <avdg> hmm… tabs are spaces… not what I wanted
22:44:53 <VVG> that's some extreme example there
22:45:37 <planetmaker> Is that something I can eat or drink, SmatZ ?
22:46:05 <SmatZ> planetmaker: :) it should mean "also in our houses"
22:47:13 <ABCRic> well guys, I gotta go. Many MagLevs for you all :D
22:47:19 <VVG> if, for example, i'd like to make a simple station grf, what will i need?
22:47:33 <SmatZ> talo=house, i=plural, ssa=case for "in", mme=our, kin=also, ko="?"
22:47:44 <SmatZ> so actually, it means "also in our houses?"
22:48:07 <SmatZ> I wonder what is ln-'s opinion about my explanation :)
23:02:48 <avdg> hmmm *wants to check which system mom's language is using :p*
23:04:59 <avdg> I still can't understand any word of it :p
23:07:34 <SmatZ> avdg: where is your mom from?
23:08:11 <SmatZ> interesting she didn't teach you her language :)
23:09:21 <avdg> but actually I'm happy if I can't understand it if they are talking
23:09:54 <avdg> they talking fast and trough eachother
23:10:15 <avdg> but that can be arrived from there culture
23:13:17 <avdg> I can't understand that first link :p
23:15:14 <avdg> hmm these *fixes are familiar :p
23:18:07 <avdg> the funnies about that language is that words of the new generation are all in english, a lot more then dutch
23:18:50 <avdg> there is some kind of switch, that they talk english, but you still can't understand any word from it
23:19:38 <avdg> but I think its in the grammer, so maybe interesting to study it
23:21:35 <avdg> if you really want to know it, we have Philippine television, my dad can't understand a word (maybe less then me :p) but he still wants to watch it
23:27:49 <avdg> do you have parents that speak other languages too?
23:39:30 <avdg> hmm.. these modes are interesting
23:40:21 <avdg> now I'm thinking, I can hear the diffrents between these 2
23:40:50 <avdg> its not only in the grammer, but in the how 'agressive' you're talking
23:42:05 <avdg> if you speak 'agressive', you are talking about a person
23:42:42 <avdg> while if you speak with a normal voice, you speak indirectly about him
23:43:18 <avdg> you are more talking with 'he/she/ or any other refence'
23:45:03 <avdg> actually, even more indirectly then using these words
23:45:26 <avdg> just like the others know about who you are talking
23:48:51 <avdg> so just say you use the louder/bit more agressive mode if the person is the most important part of the sentence
23:53:43 <planetmaker> hm... what did I do correct now that I got 100% rating? New vehicle, constant load, statue, frequent service? Something else?
23:55:06 <planetmaker> hm yeah, might be
23:57:46 <planetmaker> well. with constant loading I served last like today
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