IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-08-12
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00:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what part of that is the question?
00:11:39 <Chrill> Rumours has it the Finnish WRC rally will feature Lahti or Tampere, in addition to Jyvskyl :)
00:12:15 * Rubidium hopes that answers Eddi|zuHause's question :)
00:12:22 <Chrill> now this is the wrong channel
00:12:33 <glx> next time try UTF-8 Chrill
00:12:47 <Chrill> see I don't know how I do that
00:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you right click on the channel tab and set utf8 as the encoding
00:15:49 <PeterT> TrueBrain: Lord Aro took my old place
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03:10:33 <Dewin> Bah. I kind of hastily merged trunk + Chill's patchpack + an updated version of vehicle leasing that fixes cloning issues... and somehow my application of the vehicle leasing pach broke savegame compatibility.
03:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause> patch packs in general tend to do that
03:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you either go back to the old version, or you start a new game
03:38:10 <Dewin> Eddi: Well, it goes patchpack > savegame > minor fix to patch that's included in pachpack > savegame compatibility broken.
03:38:12 <Dewin> I'm trying to figure out why
03:38:41 <Dewin> I'm guessing effectively applying the same patch twice caused things to get rearranged in a struct somewhere
03:40:15 <Dewin> and I'm willing to do the fiddling required to make it work
03:43:52 <Dewin> Really, I'm trying to ensure that my own fixed version will be sv-compatible with Chill's next release ;)
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03:51:41 <Dewin> Or, what I should have done in the very beginning, is just figure out what in the second patch actually fixed the bug I want fixed and just apply that manually. That makes a LOT more sense. Also, I think out loud in IRC alot, which is bad.
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04:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we really can't help you merge patches when you have no clue what they actually do
04:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the first place i would look: the patch pack may have different savegame version than the "clean" patch
04:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have to update these numbers to the one in the patch pack
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06:40:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20451 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Add helper function Window::GetScrollbar() to get the Scrollbar belonging to a scrollbar widget.
06:44:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20452 /trunk/src/ (27 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Remove NWidgetCore::FindScrollbar() and associate scrollbar explicitly using a NWidgetPart via SetScrollbar().
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07:33:17 <frosch123> meh, there are too many ways to mistype scrolling_scrollbar
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07:36:51 <planetmaker> nearly a tongue twister
07:36:59 <planetmaker> good morning also
07:48:08 <dihedral> is scrolling_scrollbar a state of the scrollbar when it is being scrolled?
07:49:42 <frosch123> it shall be a Window member variable holding the widget index of a just being dragged scrollbar
07:52:58 <ntx> Sweet Scrolling Scrollbars Batman!
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07:58:04 <planetmaker> frosch123: that nearly sounds like more than two scrollbars...
07:58:12 <planetmaker> or a step to that end. Right or wrong?
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08:37:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20453 /trunk/src/ (28 files in 4 dirs):
08:37:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove direct accesses to Window::hscroll, vscroll and vscroll2.
08:37:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Note: All windows get individual members with the same names, which are initialised via Window::GetScrollbar(). This caching is not required at all, but simplifies conversion.
08:37:32 <planetmaker> hm... I downloaded the last three newgrf via bananas. But each time I start openttd anew, they're indicated as missing in the content download
08:37:44 <planetmaker> The tars are present in the content_download dir and valid tars
08:39:01 <planetmaker> any idea what might go wrong, what I can check to better pin-point the problem?
08:39:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20454 /trunk/ (source.list src/roadveh.h): -Fix: some whitespace.
08:40:14 <frosch123> did you install zlib 1.3 again?
08:40:35 <planetmaker> well. The tars are valid
08:40:36 <frosch123> hmm, though that was also fixed
08:40:48 <planetmaker> the files are successfully downloaded
08:42:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20455 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp group_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Rename some vscroll and vscroll2 to more suitable names.
08:42:55 <planetmaker> my test example are the finish town names. It's even available ingame for usage
08:46:17 <planetmaker> yes. It is fully functional. Just offered again and again for download
08:46:46 <planetmaker> I don't have it twice as it's not available anymore when I delete the file from content_download
08:47:22 <frosch123> well, it is enough to close and reopen the content gui after download
08:47:40 <planetmaker> Not even a full re-start of OpenTTD
08:48:00 <planetmaker> that's what puzzles me
08:48:12 <frosch123> oh, i remember the exact symptoms were there once before. back then there were duplicate / in paths which made it fail
08:48:36 <planetmaker> duplicate "/" or...?
08:51:40 <planetmaker> and it's the only file which provides that newgrf
08:53:48 <frosch123> does not seem to apply to other content stuff, so something is wrong with that grf resp. how it is stored on bananas
08:54:24 <planetmaker> same with DanishTransportSet and ChinesTownNames, though I didn't test those too extensively
08:54:32 <planetmaker> But those are the three newest ones
08:54:59 <planetmaker> so... can you reproduce it?
08:55:03 <frosch123> hmm, then i blame bananas, TrueBrain and Rubidium :)
08:55:24 <planetmaker> Not an OSX bug :-P
08:55:45 <planetmaker> shall I make a bug report?
09:07:54 <V453000> yea I also noticed that :)
09:07:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20456 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp): -Codechange: Add separate nested widget class for scrollbars.
09:08:03 <V453000> didnt take ist as a bug tho :D
09:09:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20457 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Remove _scrolling_scrollbar and WF_SCROLL_MIDDLE and instead store the widget index of the being scrolled scrollbar in the Window.
09:11:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20458 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Move Scrollbar from window.cpp to widget.cpp
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09:13:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20459 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Remove the Scrollbar members of Window and make NWidgetScrollbar inherit from Scrollbar instead.
09:14:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20460 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Remove WF_SCROLL window flags and store the state directly in the scrollbar widget instead.
09:16:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20461 /trunk/src/ (27 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Replace WWT_HSCROLLBAR, WWT_SCROLLBAR and WWT_SCROLL2BAR with NWID_HSCROLLBAR and NWID_VSCROLLBAR.
09:21:59 <frosch123> hmm, no -Add or -Feature :p
09:28:40 <Zuu> hmm, will there be a -Feature: unlimited of scrollbars?
09:30:08 <planetmaker> frosch123, make it 'feature'. Sounds nicer
09:30:16 <planetmaker> and it is one. At least for... you
09:30:28 <frosch123> we do not edit commit messages :)
09:30:42 <planetmaker> oh.... :-) I just should have read it all
09:31:31 <planetmaker> kudos however you called it :-)
09:31:36 <Zuu> Hmm, you could commit something that make use of more scrollbars to demonstrate the feature. :-)
09:32:12 <Zuu> How is it needing an additional scroolbar?
09:32:25 <planetmaker> current, available and description. Each one
09:32:54 <planetmaker> not that it *needs* one. But it'd be a sane place to add it.
09:34:13 <Zuu> I guess it would also be a sane place to add an additional edit box. :-p
09:34:39 <Zuu> To filter the currently selected grfs.
09:34:53 <Zuu> -> reason to implement multiple edit boxes :-p
09:37:30 <Zuu> -> reason to add my patch for cycling edit box focus via keyboard :-D
09:37:44 <planetmaker> there you go! :-)
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09:46:36 <frosch123> hmm, you find the silliest bugs only after committing
09:48:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20462 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r20452): Initialise scrollbar_index with -1 to indicate 'no scrollbar associated'.
09:49:39 <Mek2> hello, how to set up a dedicated server with some admin accounts, please?
09:50:26 <Zuu> How about helping out with an already existing server?
09:50:57 <Zuu> We already got plenty of more servers than players. Most of them w/o active admins.
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09:53:27 <Br33z4hSlut5> Hmm, fancy server names...
09:54:55 <Mek2> Zuu: I don't play so often but Slovak people welcome a Slovak server :) as I was told yesterday
09:56:57 <Zuu> For admin accounts etc. you need to use third party tools, as that is not built into OpenTTD. Apart from the rcon password.
10:05:33 <Mek2> thank you, rcon is exactly what i was looking for :)
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10:27:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20463 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [Website] -Fix (r20295) [FS#4027]: don't try to store the int variant of the md5sum; it makes clients go nuts
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11:25:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20464 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: Do not use a scrollbar to store the number of columns for non-train depot windows.
11:46:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20465 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use NWID_SELECTION to hide horizontal scrollbar and 'sell chain' button for non-train depot windows.
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11:53:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20466 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange: USe NWID_SELECTION to hide the scrollbar in dropdowns.
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12:04:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20467 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20453): Remove personal note.
12:04:25 * Sacro is leeching wifi from a 91
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13:27:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20468 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Vehicledetails of non-trains accessed a non existing scrollbar, though values were unused.
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13:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> half of the commits today were of the kind "that's why it's called 'unstable'" :)
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14:20:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20469 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r20227): Building statues used different companys for CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR during testrun and DC_EXEC.
14:54:34 <TomyLobo> what, building statues counts as you building them?
14:54:40 <TomyLobo> i.e. clearing costs standing?
15:03:11 <frosch123> no, that was the bug
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15:51:09 <Yexo> TrueBrain / Rubidium: svn copy doesn't work for the ai repositories. I remember the problem, but not the solution, I think last time one of you did the copy on the server
15:51:12 <Yexo> svn: Server sent unexpected return value (502 Bad Gateway) in response to COPY request for '/svn/ai-admiralai/!svn/bc/55/trunk' <- error message
15:53:33 <Yexo> could you do that for me again? /trunk to /tags/23
15:53:43 <TrueBrain> got to run, sorry :)
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16:06:06 * xoox wants to add OpenTTD to puppy Linux
16:07:04 <planetmaker> xoox could just get the source and compile it...
16:07:39 <planetmaker> xoox should also not use root as a default user ;-)
16:07:52 <xoox> linux-generic works, I just want to submit it to puppy's repository
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16:08:28 <xoox> puppy is a personal-use pendrive linux that's rootrun by default
16:09:03 <dihedral> not even knoppix does that
16:09:23 <xoox> but puppy somewhy does... really silly
16:10:25 <planetmaker> anyway... are there problems anyone can help you here to add it to the repo?
16:10:58 <xoox> openmsx somewhy depends on opensfx
16:11:22 <xoox> at least I can't play music if it was downloaded before sounds
16:11:30 <planetmaker> they're independent and can be installed or not.
16:12:17 <xoox> that's in windows. i just don't know how to adjust sound in linux
16:12:19 <planetmaker> With NoSound as sfx source openmsx should still work
16:12:44 <planetmaker> you probably need libtimidity
16:13:10 <planetmaker> or does sound in general work on your linux?
16:14:30 <xoox> I just don't know how to set sound in linux
16:14:54 <planetmaker> Does sound work for other applications under linux?
16:15:16 <xoox> I do not know how to set sound up for my linux.
16:15:59 <planetmaker> in general. So... again: do you have libtimidity installed?
16:17:22 <xoox> I don't know. this puppy is out-of-box
16:19:26 <xoox> then what? supply puppy without both sound and music?
16:20:46 <planetmaker> if you don't care to check whether you have a sound driver installed, I can't help you for sure
16:21:34 <xoox> I do not know how to check drivers
16:22:53 <xoox> trying to update my slapt-get lists
16:24:25 <xoox> and there's a bug with openttd-fullscreen
16:24:51 <xoox> in 24bit (3-fractional), it gets messy if I try to fullscreen openttd
16:26:32 <frosch123> maybe you installed macosx instead of puppylinux
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16:27:22 <frosch123> anyway, start with -b 32bpp-optimized if you need to
16:28:09 <xoox> and 16bit here is not as ugly as 16bit WIN
16:28:25 <xoox> here - i'm under Puppy itself atm
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16:34:57 <CruelCoke> OpenTTD - being packaged for Puppy Linux by CruelCoke
16:36:37 <planetmaker> honestly... you want to pack it for a distro and don't know how to check the distro for the presence of sound drivers?!
16:37:12 <Rubidium> Yexo: more reason to organise a move to mercurial? :)
16:37:33 <Yexo> but fore now please create a copy, then I'll organize the move later
16:39:38 <Rubidium> any wishes for a message?
16:41:01 <planetmaker> hm... why am I now reminded of StarWars 2? ;-)
16:42:15 <frosch123> is 2 more like II or V
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16:42:57 <Wolf01> II, the droid that says "roger roger"
16:43:13 <CruelCoke> tried all possible ways, sfx not working
16:43:21 <frosch123> hmm, so obviously i am no fan :p
16:43:28 <planetmaker> what Wolf01 sais :-)
16:45:10 * CruelCoke missed his walk time because of all this pinux
16:45:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20470 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Make arrow buttons lower and raise like other buttons when clicked.
16:45:52 <Rubidium> planetmaker: was more meant to be a clonewars reference
16:46:21 <planetmaker> Well, maybe there's an off-by-one error in my "2"
16:47:17 <CruelCoke> looks like there's no drivers
16:47:35 <CruelCoke> so how do I test it?
16:59:44 <Aemy> CruelCoke: Maybe if you want to solve driver problems you could go on your distro's IRC channel
17:00:30 <Rubidium> or he just didn't install all the development requirements stated in the readme
17:00:35 <CruelCoke> that's channel is just two tabs left from yours in my chatzilla
17:01:22 <Aemy> The question is simple: Does the sound work in other programs?
17:01:48 <CruelCoke> Even test sound did not play when I tried to check sound cards
17:02:37 <Aemy> Well then I think it's not OpenTTDs nor its requiments fault
17:03:26 <CruelCoke> sfx is just not runnable if linux is in livecd mode. And I unetbootined my linux =_=
17:04:12 <Aemy> I can't understand how you can make SFX work if you haven't everything else the system needs?
17:04:54 <CruelCoke> the system is just in livecd mode hosted on a pendrive
17:05:15 <CruelCoke> and libtimidity is not dloadable in petget or slapt
17:06:08 <Rubidium> you should use timidity in any case as that's much simpler to work with
17:06:19 <Aemy> Can't you just download it and compile it by yourself?
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17:45:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20471 /trunk/src/ (graph_gui.h ground_vehicle.cpp ground_vehicle.hpp): -Fix: some files didn't have their svn properties set
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17:47:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20472 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt russian.txt):
17:47:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:47:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
17:47:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
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18:05:49 <Aemy> Silly question. What are the GRFIDs for?
18:07:11 <Aemy> Mmh... but that's not really interesting for a normal user?
18:07:53 <frosch123> oh, for a "normal" user we could remove half of ottd
18:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Aemy: in some cases you can read version and author information out of it, if you know how to read it ;)
18:08:52 <frosch123> Aemy: usually you only hide information from the user, if you want to let him pay for it
18:09:24 <Alberth> now that's an idea... :p
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18:14:57 <Alberth> Aemy: the use of a grfid is for reporting problems to the author. It is often useful to know what version you used, just like it is useful to know which openttd version you use when reporting problems
18:15:30 <Alberth> Aemy: although not every grf author actually changes the grfid with each version :(
18:16:43 <planetmaker> Alberth, the problem with the GRFID is that it is a mix of version and machine-readable name
18:17:07 <planetmaker> It's not usable as a version. Except possibly major and only some minor ones
18:17:46 <planetmaker> :-) and yes, a nice evening to you :-)
18:18:02 <planetmaker> and all others, of course, too
18:18:55 <Ammler> maybe someone should tell Alberth about Action14
18:19:11 <planetmaker> well. But action14 doesn't really solve it either, does it?
18:19:45 <Alberth> not to mention that most grfs have never heard of action 14 :)
18:19:54 <planetmaker> any heart of it so far?
18:19:57 <Ammler> those are all simply Version 0 :-)
18:19:59 <Rubidium> planetmaker: exactly, it merely makes showing only the newest NewGRF easier
18:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think andythenorth experimented with action 14 in FIRS
18:20:50 <planetmaker> Rubidium, an extension to action14 could then be: min_compatible version
18:21:06 <Ammler> that is still the GRFID
18:21:09 <planetmaker> but then... that should be reflected in the grfid. yes
18:21:34 <Rubidium> planetmaker: action14 versions aren't stored
18:21:37 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, seen the nice options already?
18:22:01 * planetmaker needs action14 support in NML
18:22:20 <Alberth> do you have syntax in mind?
18:22:30 <frosch123> didn't hirundo added it some hours after ottd support?
18:22:47 <planetmaker> kinda. Let me write it down...
18:22:52 <planetmaker> Or I should check again.
18:23:11 <planetmaker> but afaik not (completely)
18:23:24 <frosch123> hmm, though sometimes i confuse the commit messages with the issue tracking :)
18:23:58 <planetmaker> yeah... it's an open issue
18:24:14 <planetmaker> I actually wrote down my thoughts already ;-)
18:24:23 <planetmaker> memory like a sieve... :S
18:25:57 <Ammler> I guess, Action14 is already in
18:25:57 <frosch123> Feature: write action14 with grf name/description translations to the output <- but some stuff is already available
18:26:24 <planetmaker> admittedly I didn't try
18:27:38 <planetmaker> well. that only mentions that action14 doesn't need to be guarded by action7/9
18:28:00 <planetmaker> oh... further down :-)
18:28:03 <Yexo> only a small part of action14 is currently supported (translateable name and description)
18:28:24 <Yexo> I had a proposal for syntax for the parameter part, but I'm not sure where I put that, probably only on some pastebin
18:28:38 <planetmaker> Put it on the tracker
18:29:01 <Yexo> I don't have it anymore :(
18:29:21 <planetmaker> maybe you have a better memory than me? ;-)
18:29:27 <planetmaker> then you could add it there
18:29:45 <Yexo> going to check #devzone logs first, see if I can find the link
18:32:48 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
18:32:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm reading MaybeNewIndustry()
18:33:11 <andythenorth> I want to see if it can be patched to ensure at least one instance of an industry type could be built soon after intro date
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18:36:06 <planetmaker> Yexo, parameter number is determined by the order of the param {} blocks?
18:36:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: me neither, it's all in German :P
18:36:16 <planetmaker> I'm not sure I quite understand you there
18:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's worse than when some russian guy shoves his stuff through an online translator...
18:36:31 <planetmaker> because you define a numeric, two boolean and another numeric one and then parameter1
18:36:49 <planetmaker> or is that just taking the bits of the first dword?
18:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, the problem is. it is not :)
18:37:22 <Beengalas> Suggestion: make it possible to customize the top menu and botton bar. It is quite annoying to have it in the middle when dual-screening.
18:37:51 <planetmaker> Beengalas, suggestion. read the manual and find out how to change that
18:38:21 <planetmaker> (at least for the top menu)
18:38:50 <Beengalas> I know I can change setting as 'left, center and right'. But I would like to move it as I wish.
18:39:13 <planetmaker> what's wrong with left then? Or right?
18:39:40 <Beengalas> I want it centered on my left screen.
18:39:55 <planetmaker> I want a pony :-D
18:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch that does that, but that was kinda hacky
18:40:56 <Yexo> planetmaker: the numeric, 2 booleans and the other numeric are all stored in parameter 0 (param[0] in the nml code)
18:40:56 <Beengalas> Yeah, well, just a suggestion.
18:41:15 <planetmaker> Yexo, must version be numeric?
18:41:17 <Yexo> normally you'd store one numeric setting per parameter, but more is allowed
18:41:58 <planetmaker> Yexo, how would I then go for something where I use parameters 0,1,2,11?
18:42:12 <planetmaker> mind the gap? :-)
18:42:18 <Yexo> why would you want the user to set parameter 11 but not 10?
18:42:25 <Yexo> that's not even possible in ttdpatch / older openttd versions
18:42:26 <planetmaker> well, if I don't it's ok, too
18:42:45 <planetmaker> Yexo, I use a not easily wrongly set parameter possibly as my debug parameter. Or could.
18:42:46 <Ammler> planetmaker: you need to be sure, that every parameter is default with 0
18:42:48 <Yexo> but I suppose you could leave one param {} block empty to skip a number
18:43:12 <Ammler> Action14 does set it to null, if you don't set it
18:43:14 <planetmaker> Well, I guess it's really not important
18:43:39 <planetmaker> I don't use it, I made it into the first for se rails, also available to the user.
18:43:39 <Yexo> same as before, that behavior hasn't changed
18:43:54 <planetmaker> Yexo, then I actually prefer your proposal
18:44:22 <planetmaker> Is there a min_value for a parameter? Or possibly a default value? The latter would be especially nice :-)
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18:44:46 <Yexo> min-value yes, but the default is still always 0
18:44:52 <Yexo> even if you set min-value to 5 you can get value 0
18:45:18 <Omega44> Is the game ever going to have some kind of highway or something because as a simcity freak I'm always concerned about the actual town growing/issues with it as well with transport
18:45:29 <Omega44> like for example with single roads my bus stations get crowded
18:45:34 <planetmaker> Omega44, maybe. maybe not.
18:45:46 <Omega44> is it better to make your own double roads
18:45:50 <planetmaker> Even likely. But when? Ask a crystal ball or start programming it
18:45:55 <Omega44> and do like double stations connected or something
18:46:05 <Omega44> just thinking of strategy here
18:46:18 <Omega44> my bus stations get real crowded real fast
18:46:30 <Ammler> I did it like "if param0 = 0 then param0=<default>"
18:46:42 <planetmaker> You know that you can combine nearly infinite bus stations to a big RV station, Omega44 ?
18:46:55 <planetmaker> Ammler, that's what se rails does now
18:47:06 <planetmaker> kinda. For internal parameters
18:47:15 <Ammler> planetmaker: 0 != unset
18:47:25 <Omega44> well atm i have a kinda avenue (is what they call it in simcity 4)
18:47:29 <Omega44> and 1 station on each lane
18:47:32 <Yexo> unset implies 0, but not the other way around
18:47:37 <Omega44> so 2 cars can basically be in one
18:48:36 <planetmaker> Omega44, even 4 can already be in one drive-through stop
18:49:30 <Ammler> Yexo: it makes someone ActionD with 80+ useless
18:50:02 <Omega44> so then i can now handle 8 cars
18:50:24 <Yexo> Ammler: I'm aware of that problem, but adding a "default" field to action14 does not solve that
18:50:32 <Yexo> as that "default" field will not work in older openttd / ttdpatch
18:50:41 <Ammler> no, you still need actiond
18:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Omega44, even 4 can already be in one drive-through stop <-- but when combined with one-way road
18:51:30 <Omega44> is there a one way street option?
18:51:40 <Omega44> cuz atm i just used 2 roads along side each other
18:52:17 <Ammler> it is just that you once said, Action14 shouldn't change behavior and add meta infos only
18:52:38 <Ammler> now it does actively set parameters to 0 and "disable" actiond with 80+
18:52:52 <Omega44> all i saw was road and streetcar
18:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Omega44: yes, it's in the road toolbar
18:53:13 <Omega44> mine only has road and streetcar
18:53:20 <Omega44> i would need to addon
18:53:35 <Omega44> i already have a bunch of other ones in the game
18:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in there, you have option to build road, depot, station etc.
18:53:38 <Yexo> Ammler: it only actively sets parameters to 0 when a user actually changes them
18:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also one-way sign in there
18:53:55 <Omega44> But these are normal roads
18:54:11 <Ammler> if you set param3, param0-2 will become 0
18:54:32 <Yexo> which is exactly as it was, you can't set param3 without setting param 0 .. 2
18:54:52 <Ammler> yes, but now you can :-)
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18:55:30 <Ammler> hmm, maybe make parameters inactive until n-1 is set?
18:56:29 <Yexo> adding a default to action14 would probably mean that openttd would set all parameters as soon as you add it to newgrf list
18:56:34 <Omega44> like i said it just under the list has streetcar and road , no other types under it
18:56:44 <Ammler> Yexo: would that hurt?
18:57:05 <Yexo> not sure, but it would also break actiond op 80+
18:57:18 <Ammler> yes, but to a value you like
18:57:45 <Omega44> also i downloaded a tram and activated it but still dont see tram option
18:57:55 <Yexo> true, there might be a point in that
18:59:08 <Omega44> oh dang i didnt even notice the 1 way road button
18:59:56 <Wolf01> gah, stupid network bridge
18:59:56 <Alberth> you survived the reboot
18:59:57 <Ammler> maybe basecosts are the only thing, where default likes to be something else than 0,
19:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Omega44: they are not another type
19:00:14 <frosch123> planetmaker: how close is the makefile tied to nml?
19:00:56 <planetmaker> frosch123, the newgrf makefile? It can do both, NML and NFO
19:00:59 <Omega44> i dled a tram but dont see it
19:01:08 <frosch123> i.e. maybe nml could determine the version from hg directly by default
19:01:16 <planetmaker> and also OpenGFX with a slight add-on. Same with OpenSFX and OpenMSX
19:01:25 <frosch123> though that does likely not work for releases
19:01:32 <planetmaker> It was rejected ;-)
19:02:00 <planetmaker> but that was before action14. And... it makes sense. kinda
19:02:28 <Omega44> and it doesnt show up
19:02:38 <frosch123> planetmaker: release branches will cause trouble though
19:03:03 <planetmaker> But it's possible to have the version written from hg by the makefile to it.
19:03:08 <planetmaker> frosch123, yeah. possibly
19:03:19 <Omega44> i dled in the list "generic tram set"
19:03:36 <planetmaker> but it could still take the integer revision of the repo
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19:03:46 <Ammler> can't you use the custom_tags for it?
19:03:48 <frosch123> if you have branches you usually want to see both the nightly and stable in the gui, and they may have different grfids anyway
19:03:59 <planetmaker> Ammler, yes, I think. Though that's a string
19:04:08 <frosch123> so integerrevision might be enough in 99% of cases
19:04:11 <planetmaker> frosch123, well. Not so often :-)
19:04:14 <Wolf01> yes, this eth bridge is really stupid
19:04:15 <andythenorth> Omega44: go to your road vehicle menu, then check 'available vehicles'
19:04:17 <Alberth> Omega44: you are aware that most settings in the main menu are only copied into the game when you start a new game? When you load one, it uses the settings loaded from the game
19:05:05 <planetmaker> Omega44, what's the game year?
19:05:19 <Omega44> it's not even greyed out
19:05:38 <Omega44> did that so i could have my monorails
19:05:50 <Omega44> which is a sep thing i added to the game
19:05:59 <Ammler> Omega44: you need to enable the grf, not just downloading
19:06:12 <Ammler> is it in "active sets"?
19:06:15 <Omega44> unless theres a paramater
19:06:25 <planetmaker> what is 'active sets' for you?
19:06:34 <planetmaker> what window and where?
19:06:50 <Yexo> Omega44: just upload a savegame, much easier for others to see what's wrong
19:07:07 <planetmaker> or a screenshot of your newgrf list
19:07:38 <planetmaker> <frosch123> so integerrevision might be enough in 99% of cases <-- yes. FIRS needs special attention. But that's fine
19:08:00 <planetmaker> It's anyway the most complex newgrf in our repo by those (and some other) standards
19:08:14 <planetmaker> it's a nice "we learn things on it" newgrf ;-)
19:08:42 <planetmaker> oh, leave the SS in their graves.
19:09:50 <Omega44> this is what my list looks like
19:10:11 <Omega44> tram is the one that isnt on
19:10:51 <Yexo> uploading a savegame would help, because we could see the problem for ourselves
19:10:56 <Yexo> it might be something with your settings
19:11:33 <Omega44> maybe i could just try reinstalling the game
19:11:47 <Yexo> you could try, but that wouldn't help you at all
19:12:30 <Omega44> well if it clears out all the new gcfs
19:12:31 <andythenorth> Omega44: how do you know there are no trams (where are you looking)?
19:12:46 <Omega44> right where the thing said on the wiki
19:12:57 <Omega44> just says road and streetcar
19:13:08 <Omega44> heh i seem so anoying atm
19:13:34 <planetmaker> Omega44, click the road construction menu and keep it clicked.
19:13:41 <planetmaker> Can you then select tram construction?
19:13:49 <andythenorth> streetcar = tram in US translation?
19:13:55 <Omega44> like i said road and streetcar
19:13:57 <frosch123> Omega44: what is the difference between tram and streetcar?
19:14:17 <Omega44> oh is this just a translation issue lol
19:14:18 <andythenorth> Omega44: you're using US or Canadian English?
19:14:35 <andythenorth> Try streetcar :)
19:14:56 <Omega44> yep this might be a translation thing
19:15:16 <planetmaker> I never thought _native_ speakers would have that issue
19:15:57 <planetmaker> I could paint a rhinozeros and call it tram ;-)
19:16:25 <planetmaker> yes. The icons look different, right?
19:16:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: did you see my question about MaybeNewIndustry?
19:16:49 <planetmaker> Same order, different look, same functionality
19:16:55 <planetmaker> Just different base set.
19:17:00 <planetmaker> You use the new one
19:17:05 <Omega44> then i guess im stupid
19:17:09 <planetmaker> the wiki often still has the proprietary one
19:17:30 <planetmaker> hover your mouse over...
19:17:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: i read you were exploring it
19:17:43 <Ammler> someone should replace all screens on the wiki with opengfx version :-)
19:17:44 <andythenorth> I explored it :D
19:17:53 <andythenorth> Ammler: feel free :P
19:18:06 <Ammler> nah, I leave that to someone
19:18:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm not sure what a design should be (if any)
19:18:35 <Ammler> maybe this translation guy could do it ;-)
19:18:40 <frosch123> planetmaker: stable has no hover
19:18:45 <andythenorth> I wondered if the game could round-robin the available industry types, instead of picking a random one
19:19:03 <andythenorth> if that makes sense...?
19:19:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20473 /trunk/src/ (object.h object_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: pass Town instead of TownID to BuildObject
19:20:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: adding a callback for the appearance probability would be possible
19:20:37 <frosch123> but triggering construction at a specific point in time is a far more complicated issue
19:21:11 <andythenorth> Can MaybeNewIndustry cache what type it tried last time it ran?
19:21:23 <frosch123> it conflicts with various other interests about the economy model itself
19:22:06 <frosch123> what use would a history of tries have?
19:22:12 <andythenorth> I think a hidden AI with unlimited funds might be a better way to force building on a certain date.
19:23:07 <andythenorth> History of tries - if a new industry type is not in history of attempts, try and build it...
19:23:15 <andythenorth> I'm sure it has unintended consequences I haven't thought of though
19:23:21 <frosch123> but then you enter the scenario/goal area, which is a treacherous and unexplored land :)
19:23:45 <andythenorth> currently the 'intro date' feature in FIRS is pretty sucky and should probably be removed
19:24:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: storing history is always stupid. how about a callback which sets the probability using date and number of industries in total / for certain types?
19:24:46 <andythenorth> possibly. You are normally much more right than me about these things
19:25:23 <andythenorth> frosch123: a probability cb might be generally useful anyway (for FIRS economies)
19:27:08 <frosch123> hmm, i think we talked about that before
19:27:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: so to increase the chance of one industry type building, I might also find myself decreasing the chance for others?
19:27:53 <frosch123> the availability callback should not return a stupid bool, but a probability
19:28:06 <andythenorth> Alternative route: I was wondering about ignoring the cumulative probabilities until there is at least one instance of each available type.
19:28:13 <andythenorth> That could get deadlocked though
19:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe double/triple/other the cumulative chance for an industry that is not on the map?
19:29:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: that is done during map generation
19:30:08 <frosch123> but not useful in game, if there is no space for a industry, there is no space
19:30:15 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that could be handled with the callback
19:31:38 <andythenorth> ignoring cum. prob would be nice except for the deadlock problem
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19:52:07 <Wolf01> gah.. I double-bridged the cable lan with the wifi pen... that was the problem :|
20:02:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: to make use of a prob. cb, do I end up with some kind of o(n) problem....
20:02:49 <andythenorth> where every industry has to count every other industry?
20:04:22 <frosch123> the cb could get some parameters, like number of industries of the type, and in total
20:04:39 <frosch123> to query a amount of a specific industrytype it would need some parameterized variable
20:07:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: can already check those with var 67 / 68?
20:15:26 <andythenorth> so cb could be a new version of cb22, returning a probability?
20:16:19 <frosch123> i added it to grf_version8.txt :)
20:17:07 <frosch123> i think some of those things could be easier implemented now, since they can be activated more easily using action14
20:17:22 <frosch123> instead of a global version bump
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20:18:30 <andythenorth> could we have newgrf control of town growth (cargos) for grf version 8?
20:19:11 <frosch123> that has nothing to do with version 8
20:19:49 <frosch123> but yes, i also want to write a spec for a town feature
20:20:01 <frosch123> (for some months :)
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20:38:25 <Terkhen> it would be nice to define town categories and a way for towns to move to other categories as they grow/change
20:42:34 <andythenorth> interesting idea
20:42:38 <andythenorth> what categories?
20:43:50 <Terkhen> something like "town -> city -> metropolis"
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20:44:19 <Terkhen> hmm... I remember giving this some thought a while ago
20:44:33 <andythenorth> write anything down?
20:45:07 <frosch123> what is the effect of those categories?
20:45:46 <Terkhen> some properties could be different, such as cargos required for growth
20:46:36 <frosch123> ok, that fits my idea of a spec :)
20:47:19 <Terkhen> I still was getting to know the NewGRF specs, so I probably have big errors on my assumptions
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20:48:33 <Terkhen> IMO the project was too specific, but some ideas can be used for a generic spec
20:50:56 <andythenorth> I should write something up
20:51:20 <andythenorth> maybe tomorrow. my brain is fried
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21:15:08 * Zuu_ dreams of a PI-regulator for his AI
21:15:29 <Mek2> hello, I cannot ban/kick clients using rcon, it keeps displaying command help, is it a bug? (rcon password kick 24) despite the fact that directly it works (kick 24)
21:17:13 <glx> rcon password "command args"
21:17:30 <Mek2> not really straightforward :)
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21:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> imho it's a big misfeature...
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22:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i would change that, but i'm not confident in C/C++ string handling...
22:09:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20475 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf.hpp: -Fix (r20474): also remove the include of crc32.hpp
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22:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/rcon.diff <-- objections?
22:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (i have not waited for compile to finish, so may have syntax errors)
22:17:50 <Yexo> you should put "" around each argument when adding it to the buffer
22:17:58 <Yexo> also make sure to given an error when you overflow buffer
22:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i do that?
22:18:11 <Yexo> idea is good, implementation not yet
22:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and what's a recommended size for the buffer?
22:18:42 <Yexo> strecat(buf, "\"", lastof(buf)); <- you could add two lines like that
22:18:56 <Yexo> there is probably a constant that can be used
22:19:02 <Yexo> not sure which one though, will have a look
22:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see any examples for checking "buffer full"
22:21:27 <Yexo> NETWORK_RCONCOMMAND_LENGTH
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22:26:24 <Yexo> if (buf == lastof(buf)) {
22:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/rcon2.diff <-- that's my current state
22:27:29 <ccfreak2k> rcon.diff looks syntactically correct on first glance.
22:27:35 <ccfreak2k> But I have a boiling pot to attend to.
22:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely correct either
22:27:45 <Yexo> you don't have to enclose the first one in "", in fact you shouldn't to keep compatibility with the current usage
22:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> syntax is irrelevant ;)
22:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: it probably needs more intelligent checking if there are already "" there
22:28:57 <Yexo> not sure if that's possible at all
22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if they might be stripped before
22:29:33 <Yexo> anyway, I'm not going to spend more time on it now, feel free to do whatever you want with my patch
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22:30:02 <Yexo> I won't have any time to look at it tomorrow either, so if someone else wants to commit something like this that's fine
22:36:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20476 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: simplify a check in aircraft_cmd.cpp by using the existing CanVehicleUseStation
22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/rcon2.diff <-- i'm really not sure if that's correct...
22:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/rcon3.diff
22:43:44 <glx> I hate when diff are not readable in the browser
22:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no influence on the mime types
22:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it opens in konqueror here...
22:44:41 <glx> firefox wants to download it
22:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i also have no server setup to test it...
22:50:00 <glx> hmm you add many " it seems
22:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that was yexo's idea
22:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> enclose each argument in ""
22:51:07 <Yexo> without doing that: rcon passwd say "a b"
22:51:13 <Yexo> becomes on the server: say a b
22:51:13 <glx> IIRC " are just there so arg[2] is "command args"
22:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but when you want to say "command "arg 1" arg2"?
22:52:17 <Yexo> glx: they aren't, arg[2] is command args (without the quotes)
22:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if one now says: rcon pw cmd "arg 1" arg2, it becomes "cmd" "arg 1" "arg2" for the transmission
22:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't add "", it becomes: cmd arg 1 arg2
22:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so it changes the number of arguments
22:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if the console has escaping
22:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> may cause weird effects
22:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll call that the final version for today, until someone has done some testing...
23:08:54 <Yexo> Rubidium: could you do another svn copy in admiralais repo? /trunk to /tags/24, with message "-Release: version 24"
23:10:53 *** last_evolution has quit IRC
23:15:38 * Yexo wonders why out of the 200+ downloaders nobody reported that admiralai didn't work _at all_
23:16:30 * Zuu pounders creating a totaly useless AI library and see how many that downloads it.
23:17:04 <Yexo> I'm not sure if an AI library shows up in the download lists as long as no AI needs it
23:17:31 <Zuu> I think they do, but I could be wrong.
23:17:52 <Yexo> then it has been changed, I don't remember exactly
23:18:15 <Zuu> then it probably is like you remember if it has been like that before.
23:22:40 <Zuu> Anyways, nice to see a bug-fix update of your AI.
23:23:34 <planetmaker> nice to see one of both of your AIs :-)
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23:46:06 <OwenS> I need to get myself an OpenPGP smartcard...
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continue to next day ⏵
