IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-07-23
⏴ go to previous day
00:32:34 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
00:39:06 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
01:04:49 *** Dreamxtreme_ has joined #openttd
01:22:14 *** duckblaster has joined #openttd
01:23:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
01:44:18 *** Xrufuian has joined #openttd
02:18:06 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:23:05 *** fjb is now known as Guest910
04:05:18 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
04:38:26 *** Xrufuian has joined #openttd
04:56:26 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:01:09 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:39:58 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:29:56 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
06:37:41 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
06:56:13 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
07:06:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:30:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:42:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
08:27:17 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
08:28:55 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
08:29:55 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
08:37:27 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
08:37:55 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
08:39:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:37:01 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:47:08 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
09:53:52 *** Hitman20 has joined #openttd
09:57:04 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
10:00:26 <Alberth> it is fairly quiet at the moment :)
10:01:14 <Hitman20> Hey all, am new to the forums and was wondering if there was a place I can go to dl AI that isnt in the Downloadable content?
10:02:13 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
10:03:31 <Alberth> after clicking 'online content', a blue-ish screen opens, with at the left sometihng like 20 lines that have type AI
10:04:24 <Alberth> but you can also download them from the forums, openttd -> general openttd -> noai discussion
10:05:09 <Alberth> there are threads for many AIs, where usually in the first post you can find a download, or a link to a download
10:10:43 <Alberth> note that you most likely also need a few AI libraries
10:11:21 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
10:13:54 <ccfreak2k> It's perfectly plausable that some new/experimental AI isn't in bananas.
10:16:58 <Hitman20> yeah na i looked through dl content but there wasnt 20 less than
10:17:12 <Hitman20> I dl'd all the libraries from DL content though
10:31:54 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
10:36:33 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
11:06:14 <rasco> what about the gamebalance branch?
11:06:19 <Hitman20> ah yeah Diherdral you are correct dl is download and ic is i see
11:06:36 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
11:06:50 <rasco> are there any plans of balancing aircraft in main branch?
11:10:49 <__ln__> like asking the passengers to sit on the left side of the plane?
11:11:19 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
11:11:19 <rasco> yes thats exactly what i was thinking of
11:15:53 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
11:20:10 <SpComb> set max number of air vehicles per player to 0
11:20:36 <rasco> yes thats what everyone is doing but actually... thats soo lame
11:22:42 <Rubidium> callback 39 might help
11:27:00 <rasco> ah newgrf_callbacks.h rite
11:28:25 <rasco> hmm, its a good idea but how to balance planes with that?
11:31:27 <Rubidium> if it's fast, don't let it make a lot of money
11:31:48 <rasco> but that would affect trains too wouldnt it?
11:33:09 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
11:33:29 <Rubidium> but very fast trains have the same: "makes a lot of money" problem
11:33:49 <Rubidium> you can increase the running cost of aircraft as well with a NewGRF
11:35:18 <rasco> but as far as i understood only in 2-multipliers rite?
11:35:51 <rasco> when i do that in pikka's aircraft set, then the old planes are totally useless, and only the new planes make sense
11:36:17 <rasco> which also sucks because i want to use the dc-3 :)
11:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... sometimes i completely don't understand how much the AI can cheat... i'm doing fairly well, i think, but almost all AIs are ahead in research, now i'm on the brink of researching scientific method, and it just announces "XYZ has finnished Apollo Program"
11:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's 1640...
11:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't wage war either, because people are two technology steps ahead of me...
11:42:04 <rasco> Eddi|zuHause: wrong channel?
11:42:07 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
11:42:11 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
11:43:37 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
11:43:57 <Alberth> some form of civ, I'd say
11:44:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:44:56 <__ln__> if a space shuttle lands on my airport, how much income?
11:50:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then play OpenTTD... there the AIs don't cheat anymore
11:51:32 <Rubidium> not sure whether there are AIs in freeciv and whether they cheat, but if it has them and they do cheat... you can mod it so they don't
11:51:40 <Rubidium> that way you should be able to win
12:00:54 <dihedral> tactical operations with Rubi ^^
12:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the AI in CivIV can also be modded, since it is "open" source
12:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but i could also just play a lower difficulty level, since clearly i can't master this one properly...
12:02:05 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
12:02:27 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but that would be the easy way out
12:02:34 <rasco> Eddi|zuHause: why not play online?
12:02:59 * Rubidium wonders when there'll be a civic :)
12:03:46 <Rubidium> yeah, cause google thinks civiv should be civic
12:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, civ4 should give better results ;)
12:23:17 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
12:25:09 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler
12:40:48 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
12:47:25 *** Seb|Handy has joined #openttd
12:48:41 *** Seb|Handy is now known as Seberoth
13:30:26 *** welshdragon is now known as Englanddragon
13:32:30 *** pm-elsewhere has joined #openttd
13:33:19 <pm-elsewhere> is it just me or is tt-forums.net having issues?
13:34:51 <Belugas> not had the time to take a look
13:35:08 * Belugas is having fun with batch files
13:35:43 * pm-elsewhere is trying to not fall asleep while waiting for the next conference session...
13:36:28 <Yexo> pm-elsewhere: it works fine here
13:39:48 <Englanddragon> pm-elsewhere; works fine on GPRS for me
13:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... somehow everyone is moving around...
13:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> one goes to australia, one goes to america, one goes to england, one goes elsewhere...
13:58:25 <Yexo> when are the ttdpatch nightlies build?
13:59:25 <Alberth> perhaps only when somebody committed a change?
14:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the compile farm is intelligent enough to skip building if no commits have been made
14:22:09 *** hinstance has joined #openttd
14:23:29 *** hinstance has left #openttd
14:36:38 <SmatZ> __ln__: I am missing optimisations flags
14:36:46 <SmatZ> it will hardly optimise anything at -O0
14:36:58 <SmatZ> -O2 is the most used, but -O3 might optimise more
14:37:38 <peter1138> back in the day we used to see things like -O6
14:38:06 <glx> -O3 can have more bugs than -O2 ;)
14:38:22 <__ln__> true, he doesn't say anything about flags, probably should be interpreted as "will gcc do that with any set of flags"
14:39:23 <SmatZ> hmm interesting, some time ago I tested gcc, and it couldn't transform the first example (factorial)
14:40:32 <SmatZ> the code was probably a bit different :)
14:41:20 <SmatZ> code generated by gcc 4.5.0 -O3
14:41:49 <SmatZ> I should benchmark that beast
14:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i read the extensive essay on the *2.0f optimisation, where i answered "i think this is probably wrong", and it doesn't really conclusively say if i was right...
14:56:41 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
15:00:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
15:02:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
15:03:30 <SmatZ> indeed, the -O3 code is slower
15:03:40 <SmatZ> -fno-tree-vectorize makes it ~20% faster
15:17:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
15:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that inserts another optimisation inbetween, so it can't detect the optimisation pattern anymore
15:25:27 <SmatZ> actually it's only the vectorization
15:27:30 *** Sevalecan has joined #openttd
15:27:50 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
15:29:21 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler
15:29:45 <Sevalecan> has anyone noticed a bug recently with NARS where Pax Equipment is always called "steam heating" for every different train engine?
15:33:47 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
15:34:24 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
15:43:23 <Rubidium> Yexo: TTDP nightlies are built around 03:00 UTC
15:43:40 <Yexo> every night or just on some nights?
15:45:16 <Rubidium> so probably some cache setting of the page is causing trouble for you
15:46:28 <Rubidium> oh... that's the best one I've seen in months (on a *bash.org site)
15:50:42 *** CoolCat has joined #openttd
16:14:25 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:16:34 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
16:35:28 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
16:43:42 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
16:50:39 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
17:01:53 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
17:06:06 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
17:07:56 *** perk111 has joined #openttd
17:19:56 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
17:34:16 *** George is now known as Guest971
17:37:39 *** lasershock has joined #openttd
17:45:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20205 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt polish.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: czech - 15 changes by ReisRyos
17:45:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: polish - 7 changes by xine
17:45:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by Fixer
17:47:47 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:58:30 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
17:58:48 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
18:01:03 <Rubidium> Belugas: but then it's not even weekend for you
18:15:02 <andythenorth> it's like pixels, only real
18:39:14 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20206 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt window_type.h): -Feature: Display suppliers and customers of an industry or cargo.
18:40:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20207 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move variable declaration to first use.
18:42:08 <Wolf01> "Move variable declaration to first use" why did you choose this way? It's ugly :(
18:43:10 <Alberth> it is code style that we use
18:44:17 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20208 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Add: Allow access of the industry cargoes window from the industry view window.
18:47:04 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20209 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Add: Allow access to the industry cargoes window from the fund industry window.
18:52:09 <Alberth> msvc 2008 doesn't like it :(
18:57:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: OS X won't build it either :(
18:58:04 <andythenorth> do you need a paste?
18:58:34 <Belugas> andythenorth, that is your work? (lego stuff)
18:58:40 <Rubidium> andythenorth: get a newer GCC
18:58:49 <Alberth> andythenorth: assert_compile(MAX_CARGOES >= lengthof(IndustrySpec::produced_cargo)); <-- that line?
18:59:04 <Alberth> assert_compile(MAX_CARGOES >= cpp_lengthof(IndustrySpec, produced_cargo)); <-- yexo proposes this solution
18:59:07 <Rubidium> Alberth: he has gcc 4.0 or gcc 4.2
18:59:44 * andythenorth googles how to update gcc :P
18:59:49 <Alberth> as in that patch won't work either?
18:59:53 <Rubidium> Alberth: gcc 4.1 says it's okay
19:00:26 <Rubidium> andythenorth: ask pm
19:00:32 <Rubidium> he seems to be using gcc 4.5
19:00:51 <Rubidium> (or 4.4; at least something significantly newer)
19:07:12 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20210 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20206): Allow other compilers to enjoy the new window too.
19:09:01 * andythenorth was having so much fun with mac ports :P
19:14:46 * andythenorth wants gcc to build faster :(
19:15:15 <Wolf01> buy a more powerful computer
19:15:18 <Rubidium> then build your own one; Apple's is really really slow
19:15:46 <Terkhen> use ccache if available
19:15:56 * andythenorth doesn't feed the trollz ^^
19:15:59 <Terkhen> that will not help you much on the first compile, though
19:16:27 <Rubidium> Terkhen: ccache only works on recompiles
19:16:58 <Rubidium> and makedepend is fairly smart about what files to recompile and what not (same with strgen knowing when to update strings.h)
19:17:30 <Rubidium> so the only time you'd possibly get a benefit from ccache is when you change a comment in a header without adding and/or removing newlines
19:18:38 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
19:19:00 <Terkhen> wouldn't ccache help when compiling a cloned repo?
19:19:22 <Rubidium> yes, but that is basically a recompile
19:19:32 <Rubidium> but how often do you do that?
19:20:02 <Rubidium> or more specifically: would andy
19:20:48 <Terkhen> probably never, that's why I said it wouldn't help much
19:22:07 <Rubidium> ccache only adds an extra point-of-failure and, if it's not used, adds significant penalties to compilation
19:22:58 <Alberth> andythenorth: sorry, but I had to add some strings for the new window :p
19:23:28 * andythenorth watches gcc build slowly and with no progress window :P
19:23:29 <Terkhen> yeah, I'm noticing... I never had problems with it under linux, but mingw versions fail to compile openttd
19:23:53 * andythenorth does at least have a reassuring blinkencursor
19:23:56 <Terkhen> I'm guessing it forgets some flags
19:24:39 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** Dreamxtreme_ has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** lolman_ has joined #openttd
19:24:39 *** rhaeder has joined #openttd
19:25:40 <Terkhen> I should look for other thing to do with my free time than trying to improve my mingw installation, such as actually using it :P
19:27:34 <Terkhen> andythenorth: yeah, I do that a lot
19:27:54 <Terkhen> and usually I know that it's a waste of time, but I enjoy doing it anyways
19:28:40 <Terkhen> sometimes it is even useful
19:32:53 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
19:33:48 * andythenorth ponders going to the shop to buy beer
19:33:53 <andythenorth> perhaps gcc is done by then
20:05:38 <andythenorth> I liked the cows more though
20:06:56 *** perk111 has joined #openttd
20:19:43 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
20:23:17 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
20:23:27 <andythenorth> pikka to the rescue
20:29:09 <Belugas> indeed, the cows are somehting to watch :)
20:34:58 * andythenorth ponders building lego cows
20:35:13 * andythenorth ponders cows in FIRS that watch trains go by
20:35:52 <planetmaker> the latter would distinctly be interesting
20:38:40 <andythenorth> the industry chain feature is awesome
20:45:05 <andythenorth> planetmaker: any idea how to write global var 8E (depot offset for trains)?
20:46:03 <planetmaker> uhm... not really
20:48:59 <andythenorth> it's an Action D global parameter
20:50:30 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
20:53:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: did you try to just write it?
20:54:05 <planetmaker> like any other param?
20:54:59 <andythenorth> never wrote an action D :P
21:08:55 <planetmaker> They're the easiest kind of actions ;-)
21:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> having the great wall makes you underdevelop your defense... that's surely gonna backfire
21:20:25 * fjb is too peaceful to win CIV.
21:21:45 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:22:27 <fjb> My Win Mobile phone ate all Java apps including all the data. :-(
21:28:11 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
21:37:42 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
21:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: i have won games without ever going to war
21:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and as far as i can tell, nobody else went to war either...
21:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but occasionally you have people who declare war no matter your relations...
21:46:54 <fjb> A christian friend of mine always declares war to win the game. But beside that the AIs usually declare war.
21:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the AIs really are some kind of role playing...
21:47:44 <epeli> hey guys, a quick question
21:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Shaka will pretty much always declare war, unless you keep him busy
21:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and Ghandi will pretty much never declare war
21:48:22 <epeli> some server settings (such as min_active_clients, does nothing on listen servers) behave differently on listen and dedicated servers, is it intended behavior or a bug?
21:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe that one is intended...
21:51:23 <epeli> i wish better documentation for all these settings existed somewhere :(
21:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> make one. that's why it's a wiki ;)
21:53:59 <epeli> haha, yeah. i occasionally do anonymous wiki contributions, but i couldnt possibly start documenting all the features when i dont even know how they are supposed to work :)
21:54:05 <planetmaker> especially the wiki doesn't work with *someone* but only with 'I will...'
21:56:03 <planetmaker> epeli: then mark them (at least) with a 'todo' or 'attention' or 'outdated' template marker - whatever seems appropriate
21:56:21 <planetmaker> or better: find out :-)
22:03:40 <fjb> I have won a million again. What to do with all that millions I win every day?
22:04:47 <epeli> hire someone to install adblock and junkmail filter for your browser and email respectively? :p
22:04:50 <Rubidium> donate them to OpenTTD? If we have enough we could probably make Atari interested and buy the copyright and trademarks related to Transport Tycoon
22:06:26 <fjb> Shall I forward all win notification mails to you?
22:07:55 <fjb> Oh, money? I was just happy about winning every day.
22:08:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can try forwarding your happiness :)
22:09:05 * fjb forwards all happiness to Rubidium.
22:10:16 <planetmaker> you must be a truely sad man now...
22:10:46 * planetmaker still happily goes to bed now and waves everyone a good night
22:10:48 <Rubidium> fjb: my happiness will just go lost when looking at the trackers
22:10:59 <Rubidium> so it's kinda wasted
22:11:36 * fjb starts to collect new happiness from the new notifications.
23:22:48 *** fmauneko has joined #openttd
23:40:56 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵