IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-07-21
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00:06:30 <devilsadvocate> k. time to give up this game and start afresh
00:06:43 <devilsadvocate> turns out i've lost more routes than i first realized
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00:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone has a quick-and-dirty method to strip all characters from a file until it hits a "\n\n"?
00:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> preferably using an easy scripting language
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00:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> f=open('30f36d3db0f3310677edb9e53f0356fca2f5d126','rb')
00:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> while len(f.next())>1: pass
00:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to do it.
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01:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... next question, how do i quickly join many images into one "mosaique"
01:46:52 <VVG> I know with irfanview you can easily create a panorama image, both vertical or horizontal, out of a batch of images.
02:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> next problem, i'm missing a few images
02:12:22 <VVG> that's easy - make them :p
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06:17:25 <dihedral> sugarcrm is annoying :-(
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06:43:11 <Pikka> good morning herr andythenorth
06:43:24 <Pikka> and other likeminded folk
06:43:47 <andythenorth> hi monsieur Pikka
06:45:01 <andythenorth> bonnet de douche
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06:57:58 * Pikka has had an offer of lemon chicken and must depart forthwith
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09:19:46 <dihedral> that looks like __ln__ himself was at work :-D
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09:55:45 <Rubidium> or should I say... old
10:04:29 <Forked> but I have that stupid double rainbow song in my head :\
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10:20:36 <TrueBrain> there are all his 'funny' conversations
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10:33:58 <__ln__> indeed 'funny' only in quotes.. assuming that story is even true.
10:35:49 <TrueBrain> David Thorne writes fiction, in columns mostly
10:36:06 <TrueBrain> mostly it has some feedback to the real world, but that is about it
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11:05:55 <Pikka> except for that little bit there...
11:16:37 <Pikka> that works, except it doesn't.
11:20:00 <Pikka> this behaviour looks desyncful perhaps...?
11:20:57 <Pikka> callback 10 (Powered wagons and visual effect) is not updated when changing railtype...
11:21:41 <Pikka> my class 73s are working perfectly except for that :)
11:22:13 <Yexo> "and is only called when loading a game or when rearranging the train in a depot" from the spec
11:22:46 <Pikka> Yexo: well that's wrong at least, it is also called when they train reverses
11:22:48 <Yexo> if you use the new variable "current railtype" than it might indeed be a possible desync
11:23:17 <Yexo> could you make a very small testcase for that?
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11:30:24 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20199 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#3964]: NewGRFs that defined a vehicle without either loaded or loading groups could crash OpenTTD
11:35:43 <Pikka> should spark under wires and blow steam on regular rails
11:40:13 <Ammler> but how do you get "16"?
11:41:41 <Ammler> I would mean, it is the half of the y of the tile
11:42:21 <Yexo> I don't think it has a direct relation with the graphics
11:42:30 <Yexo> it's just the position openttd uses to index positions within a tile
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11:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> TTD has a 16x16 grid overlay over the tile, where positions (e.g. of vehicles) can be aligned
11:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the lowest step a vehicle can travel
11:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe tiles are 64 pixels wide and 32 pixels high, +-1
11:47:21 <Narcissus> can someone link me to guide about "running a dedi openttd server"
11:47:28 <Narcissus> can't find anything obvious on the wiki
11:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so a step along this grid is one pixel up/down and two pixels left/right
11:47:56 <Alberth> Narcissus: the forums, most likely the general questions
11:48:09 <Alberth> Narcissus: and perhaps make a guide at the wiki too?
11:48:12 <Narcissus> Alberth: I will have a look, thanks
11:48:33 <Yexo> and as Alberth says, if you encounter any omissions / errors on the wiki please do correct them
11:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (but take this information with a grain of salt)
11:50:09 <Alberth> Narcissus: at least an obvious link is missing
11:53:05 <Ammler> my problem is how do I offset a sprite, which would need a full 16x16 bounding box but has a 14x11 box
11:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
11:54:23 <Ammler> M( 0xf54, PAL_NONE, 0x5b5, PAL_NONE, 1, 3, 14, 11, 7, 0),
11:54:58 <Ammler> 384 sprites/pcx/buildings.pcx 675 2472 09 87 64 -31 -56
11:55:07 <Ammler> I need to change -31 -56
11:55:40 <Ammler> I just wonder, if there is some formula, or if I need to adjust every single house manually
11:55:47 <Ammler> which has no standard box
11:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't understand what you are trying to do
11:57:22 <Ammler> just look the other examples in that thread, the houses are misaligned, but that is because of the bounding box
11:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the formulas to transform 3D into 2D coordinates are in RemapCoords
11:57:55 <Ammler> the houses which use 16x16 are fine
11:58:24 <Narcissus> one more question: where can I get AIs?
11:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> from the "check online content" button on the title menu
11:58:51 <Ammler> Narcissus: tried readme?
11:59:28 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: any link?
12:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: "grep RemapCoords src/*.h"
12:03:15 <Alberth> src/tile_type.h:static const uint TILE_SIZE = 16; ///< Tiles are 16x16 "units" in size
12:03:44 <Alberth> ie TILE_SIZE positions
12:04:55 <Alberth> but that is the logical position of a vehicle at a tile, and not directly related to graphics
12:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, if you have a coordinate of like (11,5,8) you go 11*2 pixels left, 5*2 pixels right, 11 pixels down, 5 pixels down and 8 pixels up, so you have (11-5)*2=12, (11+5-8)=8. reverse the axis, so you get (-12,8) as screen coordinate
12:09:52 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: are you able to use my example above?
12:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i understand no part of that example
12:10:45 <Ammler> the first is the bounding box, 2nd is the sprite
12:11:11 <Ammler> which needs a 16x16 box with pos 0,0
12:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: lots of numbers with no explanation
12:12:15 <Ammler> M(s1, p1, s2, p2, sx, sy, w, h, dz, p) sx, sy = position, w,h,dz = box
12:15:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so... do i understand you right now: you have a sprite, and put xrel=-31 yrel=-56, but that was calculated relatively to top corner of tile (0,0,0). now you must modify this relative to top corner of bounding box (1,3,0)?
12:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if so, then the remapping of (1,3,0) results in (-(1-3)*2,(1+3-0)) = (2,4)
12:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you must adjust your xrel/yrel by this number, not entirely sure about direction
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12:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> is that anywhere close to your solution?
12:24:44 <Ammler> where do you calc with the box?
12:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the size is relevant, only the position
12:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or i still don't understand your problem
12:26:31 <Ammler> you don't see the ugly missalignments of the houses in the screens?
12:28:53 <Ammler> hmm, -35 -60 might be the solution
12:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's pretty close to what i calculated, move 4 up and 4 left
12:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but of course the real solution was to redo the bounding box...
12:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> good morning, Belugas
12:30:59 <Belugas> good afternoon to both of you :)
12:31:06 <Ammler> yes, someone already suggested that in the thread, but how should that be possible without screwing original sprites
12:31:38 <Ammler> or do you mean, we should replace those houses with newgrf?
12:31:59 <Ammler> is that possible at all?
12:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the other solution is draw a house that fits into the bounding box
12:32:41 <Ammler> Belugas: opengfx houses have other bounding boxes then ttd originals
12:32:48 <Ammler> so our offsets are screwed
12:34:19 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: basically I just need to multiplicate x*2
12:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: err... what?
12:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (x-y)*2 for xrel, and (x+y) for yrel
12:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> plus sign adjustment
12:38:06 <Belugas> so... what you were thinking was to have a grf correcting the offset of that house (or maybe more) which is in opengfx
12:38:15 <Belugas> don't think it's possible
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12:41:59 <Ammler> I am not sure, if it is easier, now we just need to adjust non-standard houses
12:42:40 <Belugas> why not a new release?
12:44:15 <Ammler> can't change max. loan from a save
12:47:59 <Ammler> indeed nice Alberth :-)
12:49:05 <Belugas> of opengfx. not possible?
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12:49:41 <Belugas> BLINKS BLINKS at Alberth's URL
12:50:44 * Yexo wonders how that will look like for the "... supplies' cargo industries in firs
12:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: interesting, but the "stubs" at the cargo names, are they necessary?
12:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i find them confusing
12:50:55 <Alberth> now if only clicking, rtl support, and the same kind of picture but around a cargo instead of an industry, would work :p
12:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like some industry is missing there...
12:51:59 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I am drawing cargoes around the central industry only, not all the other industries
12:52:10 <Terkhen> yeah, it looks nice :)
12:52:28 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: but you should be able to click at it in the future, and get the view around that confusing cargo
12:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i mean where you write "Iron Ore"
12:53:01 <Yexo> Alberth: in any case it's impressive work!
12:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that should probably be fit into the red area, not next to it with a "stub"
12:53:21 <Alberth> it should be for the amount of lines :)
12:55:44 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I am currently already happy that you can see what a cargo connection carries. There are plenty of more important missing things to fix first
12:57:27 <Ammler> Belugas: it will need a new release of opengfx anyway
12:57:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: there is at least a readability issue with your solution; bright yellow background with white text does not work nicely (grain colour).
12:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: maybe write the cargo name at the "input" and "output" of the industry (inside the rect)
12:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so the "cargo line" only connects industries
12:59:16 <Alberth> at both input and output? that will make the industries much wider, I think
12:59:38 <Belugas> mmh... houses... that reminds me of something i started
12:59:45 <Belugas> and nce again not finished...
13:00:34 <Alberth> Belugas: 9801 revisions until the next party :p
13:03:51 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: xrel=(1-3)*2=-4 -> -31+-4=-35 (OK) / yrel: (1+3)=4 -> -56+4=-52 (should be -60)
13:04:05 <Ammler> so can I just assume, it is - for yrel?
13:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i said "plus sign adjustment"
13:04:18 <Terkhen> IMO showing that amount of info around a cargo would be nice but not strictly required
13:06:03 <Alberth> yes, but you don't have the space
13:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can make sure that you don't have an input and an output on the same line
13:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so you shift the problem to making the industries higher
13:08:09 <Alberth> you can in general have 1 text at one line, you you need 1 line extra for the industry name, and 2 lines extra for one of the sides.
13:08:18 <Alberth> ie make the industry types twice as high
13:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you can fit 3 lines in the current rect
13:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's industry name + 2 cargos
13:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> for industries with more cargos, like the factory, you can make it higher
13:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> adjusting height is way less problematic in a layout like this
13:10:42 <Alberth> except you have 3 accepting cargoes, 2 produced cargoes + the name of the industry, 6 lines
13:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see that as a problem
13:11:24 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20200 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3930]: terraform and extra viewport hotkeys didn't work in the scenario editor (jawsper)
13:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> except for making the height dynamic, which is a coding problem, not a design problem
13:11:34 <Alberth> and if you want to do it nicely, you need also some space to show the colour of the industry
13:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do that in a small rect next to the industry name?
13:12:46 <Alberth> the box is calculated to fit any of the strings, and the industry type name may be the longest
13:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you really want to bargain for every pixel here? :)
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13:15:10 <Alberth> current line count is in the order of 860 lines, and there are lots of things not yet done.
13:15:28 <Alberth> to make progress, I'd rather finish those things first
13:15:43 <Alberth> however, if you feel like having a go, I can give you my current patch
13:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not touching GUI code :p
13:16:56 <Alberth> it's not gui code, it's window drawing code :p
13:17:32 <Alberth> ie it does not do graphical user interaction :p
13:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> drawing _IS_ a graphical user interaction :p
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13:23:33 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: I'd say it's a graphical interace, not necesarily interaction
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14:01:18 <Ammler> this loading random game, if save fails is the worst you ever made...
14:01:32 <Ammler> who suggested such crap?
14:02:28 <Ammler> those people really should be forced to admin a server
14:04:04 <Ammler> yes it is, but some might call it feature :'-(
14:04:30 * robotboy waits while DOS moves all the DJGPP zips of his USB Key
14:04:45 <robotboy> I wouldn't want it on my DOS machine
14:06:52 <Ammler> also debug_level ai is 0 but those are still listed in the console
14:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't understand it either...
14:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if loading fails, it should obviously quit with an error...
14:07:14 <Ammler> hmm, that might now be a real bug
14:07:58 <Ammler> well, loading the intro game was fine too, at least you saw immediately, that something is wrong
14:09:28 <Belugas> lottsa changes in dare
14:09:42 * robotboy wonders if compiling for DOS using DJGPP is anything like compiiling for linux as DJGPP is a DOS port of GCC and some of the GNU utils
14:10:38 <Yexo> Ammler: I think the reasoning was: if openttd quits you can't load another (the good one) savegame via rcon
14:10:58 <Yexo> same with loading the intro game, you can't join the server becaue it'll desync (and what if the intro screen is the savegame that fails?)
14:11:00 <Ammler> Yexo: you ned to restart openttd anyway
14:11:16 <Ammler> since openttd doesn't reload fresh banans grfs
14:11:38 <Yexo> is there no console command for that?
14:12:00 <Yexo> dunno, there is "reload_ais" for AIs
14:12:37 <Ammler> why does it need a command?
14:12:53 <Ammler> shouldn't it be just reload after "content download"
14:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nasty insects season still not over... still can't open my window
14:13:39 <Ammler> well, if that would be possible, I see sense to not quit openttd :-)
14:18:39 <Ammler> hmm, is the ai debug_level fixed in trunk?
14:28:25 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20201 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Feature [FS#3926]: add several new hotkeys to the global hotkey list and to the order windows. None of them has a default keybinding.
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14:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there code to get the map-coordinates of the upper left and the lower right corner of the screen?
14:33:24 <Alberth> in small-map, I think
14:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and where is the _screen variable defined?
14:35:17 <Alberth> _screen is in gfx_func.h, line 64
14:35:33 <Alberth> but there you don't have coords any more, afaik
14:36:12 <Alberth> position calculation from a click in a viewport may be what you are looking for
14:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... something like that
14:38:26 <Alberth> line 111 and further look interesting
14:38:57 <robotboy> do I need any extra libraries on top of the normal extra libs (I have allegro) for compiling on dos
14:39:26 <Rubidium> you mean besides zlib and liblzo?
14:39:42 <Rubidium> maybe you want libpng as well
14:40:06 <glx> btw there's no guarantee it will run on real hardware :)
14:40:24 <Rubidium> glx: I seem to remember robotboy running my binary on real hardware once
14:40:40 <Rubidium> and it should still compile
14:41:00 <Rubidium> unless someone broke it very recently
14:41:32 <robotboy> I did run it on the hardware im preping with DJGPP
14:42:00 <Rubidium> yep... it still compiles
14:42:05 <robotboy> I wrote a wiki article on how to get it running if you have access to the binary
14:42:12 <Rubidium> (cross-compiles that is)
14:42:28 <Rubidium> I've got lzo, zlib, libpng and allegro linked
14:49:49 * robotboy waits while windows unzip everything unto his USB Key
14:50:40 <Narcissus> how do I associate an IRC channel here to my server
14:51:26 <frosch123> maybe with autopilot
14:51:55 <frosch123> or autopilot+ or whatever is current :)
15:14:00 <robotboy> im geusing all the libs should go into the include dir within the DJGPP dir
15:14:21 <robotboy> I'm not doing anymore work on compiling until the morning
15:14:24 <Rubidium> dunno... never actually compile on DOS, just cross-compiled stuff
15:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume libs go into the libs dir, and headers into the include dir...
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15:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> but i never set up an environment like that manually
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15:52:12 <TomyLobo> is there a newgrf or something that makes the pathfinding "shadows" more visible on maglev (and on monorail too)?
15:53:03 <Rubidium> there probably isn't, but it's arguably not very hard to make such a NewGRF as it's just replacing some sprites
15:53:39 <Yexo> it's some recoloring sprites I think, the same as are used for crashed vehicles
15:57:51 <Rubidium> what... you're bailing out already? :(
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16:06:19 <TomyLobo> that'd put cet at utc+4
16:07:13 <Rubidium> oh... you are so close minded... relativity
16:08:31 <Rubidium> I'm so full of myself that I've got higher gravitational fields and thus time goes slower for me (i.e. time dilation)
16:10:14 <Rubidium> that's why GPS always messes up when I'm around
16:11:40 <Alberth> oh, you are not in a boat somewhere at the ocean?
16:13:01 <Rubidium> Alberth: no, I'm in what "De Bilt" could call the tropics (at least there's tropical weather around here)
16:15:12 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: it would put CET at UTC+3 (and CEST at UTC+4)
16:15:25 * Alberth ponders how temperature influences time itself, or failing that, ones time reading abilities
16:15:53 <Rubidium> Alberth: who said temperature influences time?
16:16:07 <Rubidium> I said gravitational fields influence time
16:16:38 <Alberth> they do, but hours difference?
16:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, temperature is an expression of rapid movement, and thus also subject to theory of relativity
16:16:54 <Alberth> we need pm to decide whether that is even possible
16:17:49 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like a good thesis for a Ph.D.
16:17:52 <Rubidium> Alberth: Europe and the US are moving away; you won't notice it, unless you take a measurement now and one in 20000 years
16:18:19 <Alberth> hmm, not fast enough to bother about it :)
16:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, local time movement also depends on your height above earth center
16:19:07 <Alberth> of course, given that earth is round-ish, the US is also coming closer...
16:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if they stop the oil spill with an atomic bomb, like the russians suggested, it might open up a new tectonic rift ;)
16:21:00 <Alberth> that may be the least of our problems in such a case :p
16:21:06 <Rubidium> but then it'll just start flowing somewhere else... like China
16:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i would think it might be a fairly effective solution
16:21:58 <Belugas> the russians actually did nuked a well, back in the 70
16:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the problems the americans have with that is that it's already public, and the public doesn't like anything that has "nuclear" in it...
16:23:30 <Rubidium> I'd say... make a dam between Florida and Cuba, and Cuba and Mexico... and slowly drain the water from the bottom
16:24:02 <Belugas> plus, the geology of the guld is not known enough. So a nuclear plug could eventually collapse the "roof" of the floor and make an incredible disaster
16:24:12 <Rubidium> problem solved... oil won't go into the water anymore (only rainwater getting into the oil)
16:24:48 <enr1x> has onyone gotten openttd running on os x snow leopard_
16:25:09 <Rubidium> people claim they have
16:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the devs have a mac to actually test it.
16:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a wiki page on compiling on mac, even in spanish ;)
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16:26:34 <enr1x> i'll try to compile then
16:26:52 <enr1x> with a 30Mbps line, it's a moment to download Xcode and try
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16:48:30 <Alberth> downloading is not the core problem :p
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16:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> he should get used to a .3 Mbps line
16:55:51 * SpComb downloads a couple Ubuntu ISOs for amusement
16:56:31 <SpComb> they're upgrading some of the lines here to gbit, but this building is getting renovated in the near future
16:57:20 * Rubidium remembers having 100 Mbps 5 years ago... you'd always get annoyed by only getting a few hundred KiB/s
16:58:16 <SpComb> you could probably still download linux distros fast enough back even
16:58:45 <SpComb> they tend to be on university networks, like the residential 100mbps users :p
16:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> our university only gets charged for downstream traffic, so upstream is practically free...
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17:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... you could judge patch-packs which set the version to "1.0.2" as violating the gpl, as it requires to mark the version as modified
17:10:39 <Alberth> making a patch against a stable is so useless
17:37:32 <resq> Hi guys, I have question. I'm playing openttd singleplayer and have year 2100, I've just turned on computer players to help me build europe (before I played alone) and downloaded SI AdmiralAI, but after 5-8 years they are dying. Why is that?
17:38:06 <resq> Before I used to play on version 0.74 (or something like that) and AdmiralAI was very good
17:38:15 <Yexo> probably because your map / settings (due to inflation / newgrfs) is too hard
17:38:45 <resq> I had a break like 4-5 months, and loaded the game I played before :/
17:39:06 <Yexo> no idea then, there has been no new version of admiralai for over a year
17:41:38 <resq> they are building like 50 cars, everything is going great, company costs 5 - 8mln EU, and suddenly everything changes and value starts decreasing to 2EU
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17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20202 /trunk/src/lang/ (irish.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt unfinished/chuvash.txt):
17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: chuvash - 93 changes by mefisteron
17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: irish - 5 changes by tem
17:45:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by 2rB
17:46:51 <dail> So is AdmiralAI the best AI to play against or is another AI better suited to play against
17:47:14 <Yexo> that depends on your personal preference
17:47:22 <Yexo> and what you want from an AI
17:47:43 <dail> yeah i guess thats true....
17:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "Oil and Gas acts as Lubricant for Earth's Crust Movement. Now that we have taken out so much Oil and Gas. Earth's Layers have lost this lubricant and as a result we will observe much bigger more devastating Mega Earthquakes.."
17:51:20 <andythenorth> the next mega earthquake will be proof of that :P
17:51:27 <andythenorth> definitely causal
17:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> we will apparently get another grand canyon that way :p
17:52:18 <frosch123> hmm, i still did not fix the quak-highlight for earthquake
17:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> an earth-quak, great! :p
17:53:45 <andythenorth> scale issues murder my road-railer plan
17:53:56 <andythenorth> unless I redraw the fricking sprites :P
17:54:14 <resq> Are all NewGRFs available through ingame online downloader? Or you are downloading some through http?
17:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> some older ones might not be available
17:54:41 * andythenorth thinks smoke for RVs would be nice
17:55:30 <resq> because Im seeing some interesting ones on screenshots and wondering.
17:56:42 <ccfreak2k> Those are one-way roads.
17:56:43 <andythenorth> resq: it's one way roads
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17:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one way roads are not part of grfs...
17:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> they are in the default game
17:57:08 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Pikka> should spark under wires and blow steam on regular rails
17:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> although the shape of the arrows may vary
17:57:48 <resq> hmm I cant find them, I wanted to build highways like on the screenshots
17:58:29 <Alberth> build a normal road, then add the direction arrows
18:00:27 <resq> woo, I did not know that, thx
18:01:13 <Markk> How can I but a bot in a channel that outputs everything that's going on in a game?
18:01:20 <Markk> (Like the one in openttdcoop)
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18:03:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
18:06:10 <Alberth> it looks awesome andythenorth, unfortunately, the window is not ready yet
18:06:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: looks epic
18:07:21 <Eoin> why would a petrol station need cement?
18:07:31 <Alberth> you are supposed to be able to click at the industries and cargoes, and thus browse the industry set
18:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> tiny feature request: a "show on map" button that filters for all industries visible in this window
18:09:38 <Eoin> not payed attention to openttd for a while
18:10:00 <Alberth> the window works with any industry set
18:10:07 <Alberth> the screen short is with FIRS
18:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and another detail: it might want to show also "Houses" or "Town", if a house set building accepts the cargo
18:10:48 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that is also one of the missing features. Not sure how to get that information
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18:11:51 <Hirundo> What happens if accepted cargoes are decided using CB 2A-2C?
18:12:25 <Markk> Nice, I'm owner to a dedicated OpenTTD-server.
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18:12:51 <Alberth> Hirundo: I display the accepted/produced cargo of the industry types. I see no sensible solution to do it for every industry.
18:13:40 * andythenorth thinks it's bad behaviour to vary accepted/produced between industries of the same type
18:14:03 <Hirundo> It's indeed bad, but *someone* wrote CBs for it
18:14:24 <andythenorth> customising per industry type is useful
18:14:32 <andythenorth> customising per instance is confusing to players
18:14:59 <andythenorth> it's an unfortunate side effect of a useful feature :P
18:15:02 * Alberth agrees that an industry type should be deciding for accpted cargo
18:15:26 <Alberth> and probably produced cargo as well
18:16:02 <andythenorth> actually acceptance should be on a per-industry instance basis, that allows for stockpiling and things
18:16:13 <andythenorth> I was thinking of cb 14B and 14C
18:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, "Machine factory now also produces leather jackets"... very... "communistic" approach ;)
18:16:47 <Alberth> you are aware of the fact that I don't speak callback numberish?
18:17:05 <andythenorth> the TTDP wiki does
18:17:33 <andythenorth> using those cbs to decide per instance might be entertaining for a coder, but would make for bad gameplay
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18:18:11 <Alberth> yeah, I don't see use for that callback
18:18:49 <Hirundo> you're right about 14B/C, I missed the fact that both industry tiles and industries have to agree on whether to accept machine parts or leather jackets
18:19:08 <andythenorth> Alberth one use would be changing cargos according to parameter (globally for all instances)
18:19:25 <andythenorth> another use would be randomising cargos depending on certain variables (co-ords, snowline, town etc)
18:19:31 <andythenorth> the first is useful
18:19:35 <andythenorth> the second is annoying
18:20:06 <Alberth> why not make more industry types?
18:20:20 <Hirundo> The first can be done with action 6/D/7/9 as well
18:21:16 <Hirundo> Isn't this CB used by ECS to stop acceptance on stockpile overflow?
18:21:30 <andythenorth> CB 14B 14C wouldn't be
18:21:42 <andythenorth> cb 2A and 3D would be yes
18:22:06 <andythenorth> and yes, more industry types / action 6 etc would also work
18:22:54 <Alberth> temporarily stopping acceptance to prevent stockpile overflow is not much of a problem imho
18:23:13 <andythenorth> it's a non-issue for your patch surely?
18:23:29 <andythenorth> that's local to the instance, not global to the industry chain concept
18:24:40 * andythenorth has to redraw an RV to match train scale
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18:25:51 <Alberth> yes, I look at industry types, not at industries
18:28:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: not supporting cb 14b/c in that window is only fair towards ais :)
18:29:14 <andythenorth> can AIs access the cargos if cb 14b/c is used?
18:29:26 <Yexo> yes, but only per industry instance
18:29:31 <Yexo> just like a human player
18:34:15 <Markk> How do I change vehicle_breakdowns ingame?
18:36:07 <frosch123> first look up the full name of the setting using list_settings
18:36:15 <frosch123> likely something starting with difficulty
18:36:26 <frosch123> then use the setting command to set a value
18:36:36 <frosch123> iirc you need to quote the whole command for rcon
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18:37:06 <Markk> It should be vehicle_bredowns 0 (Like the openttd.cfg).
18:37:38 <frosch123> maybe difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns
18:38:46 <Rubidium> it doesn't know setting?
18:40:54 <Markk> "rcon [password] difficulty.vehicle_breadowns 0"
18:40:58 <Markk> "ERROR: command not found"
18:41:28 <Rubidium> you're obviously missing the command "setting" in there
18:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> also, rcon needs quotes around the whole command (but that is only the next problem :P)
18:42:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I fear he took that literally (see the quotes?)
18:43:37 <Markk> Don't be so harsh to me mates.
18:43:54 <Markk> I'm not used to use the console in OpenTTD.
18:44:02 <Markk> (Played OpenTTD since 0.4.7 tough)
18:44:19 * andythenorth abandons the idea of road-railer
18:49:46 <Markk> Still doesn't work tough.
18:50:12 <Markk> rcon [password] setting difficulty.cehicle_breakdowns 0
18:50:22 <Markk> Just says what the setting does.
18:50:38 <Rubidium> Markk: read what Eddi|zuHause said 8 minutes ago
18:51:02 <Markk> I tought that you were ironic.
18:51:03 * andythenorth ponders redrawing HEQS to train scale
18:55:11 <Belugas> I just so love this HardCastle hammering riff...
19:06:54 <Belugas> Bloody Time Zones - Hard Castle :)
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19:36:01 <resq> what for are the waypoints on railways?
19:37:19 <orudge> route add default gw 192.168.0.1 eth0
19:37:34 <resq> technically I know, but I still dont know why they are needed in game, I never used itd and didnt had problems
19:38:18 <orudge> it depends on the complexity of your networks
19:38:24 <orudge> trains are more likely to get lost on large, complex networks
19:38:36 <orudge> in those situations, waypoints can be handy
19:39:36 <Alberth> or if you want to force trains into some path
19:40:35 <resq> thx for explaining, I generally build basic connections from point A to B
19:41:00 <resq> I get mad for those signals, there is too many of them
19:41:43 <peter1138> hmm, nouveau is a bit slow :(
19:42:35 <SpComb> orudge: ip route add default via 192.168.0.1
19:43:15 <orudge> if that's how you like to do things
19:43:16 <peter1138> shame, the highres text console is nice
19:43:20 <Alberth> resq: you must have a LOT of track then
19:43:36 <orudge> resq: heh, that's what I tended to do 10 years ago, when I was still relatively new to the game
19:43:43 <orudge> but one learns quickly that that's not really the most efficient manner :)
19:43:55 <SpComb> sometimes not so quickyl
19:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> resq: you might have a station where the track splits afterwards, so you want to sort the train to the right platforms before entering the station
19:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> resq: or you want to separate slow and fast trains into different tracks on a main line
19:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> resq: or you want to ensure that not all platforms at a factory are occupied by goods trains, and no steel/grain/etc. trains can arrive anymore
19:46:42 <resq> Alberth yes, but I'm playing very large map, europe scenario :)
19:47:31 <Alberth> resq: if you use path signals only, it is not that complicated
19:48:27 <resq> the problem is, I cant get it, I'm doing something wrong, cause trains wait on red a littlebit, and then turn away just skipping station
19:50:39 <resq> I read a little wiki manual, but there is so many signals, entry exit pre etc etc, I just dont have time to sit think and decide, and after few years I will be changing to electric, then maglev
19:51:24 <SpComb> you don't need anything other than path signals normally
19:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> trains turn around if they wait at a red light too long
19:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can disable that
19:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no, only from the console
19:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that setting really should be in the options
19:54:50 <Alberth> no, the game should be changed that it only turns if it makes sense to try that imho
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19:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a simplified "trains turn around on red signals" switch
19:55:21 <Alberth> but I never needed such trickery,
19:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> resq: setting names are "wait_oneway_signal", "wait_twoway_signal" and "wait_for_pbs_path" or similar. set to 255 to disable
19:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> try "list_settings pf.wait" and "set <name> <value>"
19:58:14 <Alberth> resq: you can also have a try with a small demo game, and when you get stuck with the path signals, post it at the forum. there are plentry of people to give you advice on alternative ideas.
20:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, it should do a pathfinding run from the other end, and only turn around if a valid path is returned
20:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: in case of a PBS block, only if an actual path reservation succeeds
20:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... two spiders in one web... that can't be good...
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20:11:09 <resq> and what is better in your opinion, one long train, or two smaller?
20:13:59 <andythenorth> the longest you can get
20:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> resq: two trains, so you always have one waiting for cargo (improves rating)
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20:35:31 <andythenorth> ratings are overrated
20:36:48 <Eoin> any good realism based servers around?
20:37:00 <andythenorth> maybe we should start one
20:37:08 <andythenorth> I can never get networked play to work though :P
20:37:22 <andythenorth> for reasons that are no-one's fault but mine
20:37:41 <resq> wtf oneway roads cant have corners? only straight roads?
20:37:42 <Eoin> go ahead and start one if you want :P
20:37:53 <Eoin> you just dont make them 1 way tile
20:38:28 <andythenorth> resq: you don't need the whole road to be one way
20:38:43 <andythenorth> just a few tiles at junctions will make it one way
20:38:46 <Eoin> you can make just the first tile
20:39:10 <Eoin> i dont think id dare go on openttdcoop
20:39:12 <resq> yeah i figured it out, but still, simple corner :D
20:39:13 <Eoin> there junctions give me piles
20:39:32 <Belugas> home, it';s where the mind lies
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20:40:57 <kamnet> I don't think I'd do well on a multiplayer server
20:41:21 <Yexo> why care about "doing well" as long as you have fun?
20:41:45 <kamnet> While everybody else is laying track from here to Kingdom-come, I'd still be fussing over how I want my station to look :-D
20:41:58 <Eoin> only exception is Openttdcoop
20:42:11 <Eoin> as it really is a mindfuck :P
20:44:06 <kamnet> Yes, just seeing some of the screen shot confuses me
20:46:14 <Eoin> andythenorth: i was being serious btw :P
20:48:14 <kamnet> I'm currently trying to rack my brain about how to make a realistic moreheightlevels-compatible heightmap for my part of the country.
20:50:31 <PeterT> Eoin: I have a world map, usa map, south america, and hungary server
20:50:56 <Eoin> but im going on openttdcoop for a bit :P
20:51:08 <PeterT> you call that realism based?
20:51:48 <PeterT> well, if you wanna try mine, go to #sn
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22:03:14 <enr1x> earlier this afternoon I asked about compiling ottd on a macbook pro with snow leopard
22:03:34 <andythenorth> what's the question?
22:03:39 <enr1x> i have been trying with a clean install of os x, with macports, and it doesn't compile
22:04:10 <andythenorth> your best chance of help might be to ask planetmaker (if he's around)
22:04:26 <andythenorth> I compile on leopard, but "it just works" :o
22:04:52 <enr1x> looks like something didn't compile right, did it?
22:05:49 <Rubidium> IIRC the wiki page says something about it
22:09:02 <enr1x> i am reconfiguring and recompiling, let's see
22:20:16 <enr1x> i'm leaving now (let's party)
22:20:20 <enr1x> see you guys, and thanks!
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continue to next day ⏵
