IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-06-30
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00:03:00 <orange> i notice the official content server seem largely incomplete, is there any way that it can be linked up to other content providers so downloading newGRFs become easier for multiplayer games :)
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01:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no... it can't be... especially not within 1 minute
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06:41:11 <ccfreak2k> The OpenGFX snowpack looks like frosting.
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06:54:27 <PeterT`> internet is 2,90 euros for 30 minutes :(
06:56:05 <Ammler> ccfreak2k: to the snowpack
06:56:15 <ccfreak2k> Can't you just...look in openttd?
06:57:03 <Ammler> ok, you mean the snowy sprites of opengfx
06:57:21 <ccfreak2k> The snow-covered ground of the sub-arctic.
06:57:30 <PeterT`> omg there is a 10 second lag :(
06:57:53 <__ln__> that's because of the translator who translates your lines into french
07:15:21 <ccfreak2k> Is there a way to remove the timetable from vehicles?
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07:52:36 <kamil> hi, ap+: run, work... if i write !help in irc then ap+ answer - good! if i write !help in game then not answer - not write in console not found ../help.tcl etc... any idea?
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08:13:49 <kamil> if i write in irc: !fish then i get answer... if write in game: !fish then not answer... hmm...
08:22:43 <Ammler> kamil: check docs for custom commands and responses
08:25:47 <Ammler> responses are configured in the cfg and for irc only.
08:27:12 <kamil> Ammler: any write script is working from irc, if copy script to game folder then not working from a game... example help.tcl - if write in game !help then not execute script in game/help.tcl...
08:28:04 <Ammler> any output in the console?
08:29:00 <kamil> Ammler: only log chat from game, but not any warn or err (ap+ in debug mode)
08:30:09 <kamil> Ammler: maybe my libs tcl/tclx/tk is wrong?
08:30:38 <Ammler> [2010-06-30 10:30:09] [All] Amm1er: !help <-- you don't have something like that?
08:31:39 <Ammler> you execute the commands in chat ingame, maybe you tried the game console?
08:33:50 <kamil> [2010-06-30 10:33:24] [Wszyscy] cyp: !help
08:33:50 <kamil> [2010-06-30 10:33:33] ERROR: command not found
08:33:50 <linbot> kamil: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
08:33:51 <linbot> kamil: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
08:37:10 <Ammler> oh, you found bad bot here :-)
08:39:17 <Ammler> paste "ls autopilot/scripts/*"
08:42:54 <Ammler> I wonder, how such a spambot can spread in so many channels
08:50:48 <planetmaker> no unauthorized bots here... just telling :-)
08:51:46 <linbot> peter1138: I have been running for 5 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 16 seconds.
08:51:54 *** linbot was kicked by peter1138 (linbot)
08:52:09 <__ln__> linbot: sounds like forrest gump's run
08:52:29 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*supybot@*.linode.com
08:52:29 *** linbot was kicked by peter1138 (right)
08:56:54 <DorpsGek> peter1138: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
08:56:57 <Ammler> lately a bot joined our channel with same command prefix, that is dangerous :-)
08:58:10 <Ammler> how is the setting to get more water on the map creation?
08:58:54 <peter1138> okay, it's something to do with mikegrb
09:00:21 <Ammler> variety is something else :-)
09:00:55 <peter1138> how is the setting? maybe it's feeling down?
09:01:17 <Ammler> it was 0, changed it to 5
09:02:11 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*michael@*.netop.oftc.net
09:02:11 *** mikegrb was kicked by peter1138 (maybe it's that)
09:03:17 <Ammler> it is quantity_sea_lakes
09:03:29 <peter1138> Ammler, oh, you mean *what* is the setting
09:03:37 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*michael@*.netop.oftc.net
09:04:01 <Ammler> well, but then he should at least lobotomize the bot
09:04:17 <peter1138> ircname : Reverend Michael Greb
09:04:28 <peter1138> 255.255.255.255 :actually using host
09:04:28 <peter1138> 255.255.255.255 :actually using host
09:07:52 <Ammler> we really need a webconfigurator back for openttd :-(
09:08:17 <Ammler> or something to configure newgrfs with console
09:08:42 <DorpsGek> peter1138: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
09:08:52 <peter1138> "(and port 80 for web config)"
09:09:59 <Ammler> yeah, openttd with its own webserver \o/
09:11:20 <tdev> configuring newgrf with vim = fun ensured xD
09:11:36 <tdev> our ottd bot has an integrated webserver ;)
09:12:10 <Ammler> tdev: since bananas, it is hell to configure newgrfs
09:12:33 <Ammler> as you need to know the version and the "untared" grfname
09:13:00 <Ammler> so the configurator should detect that :-)
09:31:07 <peter1138> and you can't read the readmes cos they're all tarred up, yes
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09:36:23 <tdev> also, we have an alternative to autopilot ;)
09:36:28 <Ammler> since you have only one grf in a tar, it is a bit senseless anyway
09:38:47 <Ammler> there are a lot, which try to, but none succeeded
09:39:26 <Ammler> xShunter looks like getting a replacement, but closed source
09:41:50 <Ammler> tdev: there is also a python wrapper
09:42:05 <Ammler> pyottd or something like that
09:42:47 <tdev> ideally we have a part in the server itself
09:42:53 <tdev> like a communication protocol
09:43:17 <Ammler> the client you linked needs rcon, what I don't like that much
09:44:08 <Ammler> and something all wrapper miss is the possiblitly to restart openttd
09:44:16 <tdev> we should write a console wrapper at some time
09:44:36 * Rubidium wonders why that bot needs an imaging library
09:44:39 <Ammler> maybe you could merge that with yours :-)
09:44:58 <tdev> Rubidium: yorick appearently added GRF decompression for whatever reason
09:45:20 <tdev> Ammler: good idea, will look into it
09:48:39 <tdev> Ammler: got a link to pyottd? google find nothing useful
09:53:52 <kamil> Ammler: i run openttd in other machine and... run and working all scripts... sorry for problems... it's my problem on server... ;)
09:59:58 <Ammler> there is no link in the readme
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12:46:54 <Belugas> wel.. vis-a-vis... to say that, we both would need to know on which monitor the irc client is placed :)
12:47:18 <Ammler> ah ok, I meant vis-a-vis on the globe :-P
12:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be in new zealand...
12:52:51 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that does assume something about both parties of the vis-a-vis to be "looking" at the same time
12:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> haha... Wulff fails in the first electorial round
12:54:07 <Rubidium> that's Merkel's "baby"?
12:54:48 <planetmaker> hehe. We just high-fived on that here :-)
12:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wulff (CDU/FDP) 600 - Gauck (SPD/Green) 499 - Jochimsen (Left) 126 - Rennicke (Nationalist) 3 - abstain 13 --- necessary for absolute majority: 623
12:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> theoretically, CDU+FDP would have 644 votes, so 44 people either abstained or voted for someone else
12:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also notable: left party has 152 votes, but only 126 voted for their candidate
12:58:56 <Belugas> Ammler, next time, just say "Hi Dude" :D
12:59:05 <Belugas> or something in that line hehehe
12:59:44 <Noldo_> why would you have your own candidate with 152 votes?
13:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo_: because they wouldn't want to support either of the other candidates
13:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> in a direct election, someone like wulff wouldn't stand a chance...
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14:06:39 <Ammler> orudge: why doesn't tt-forums support nicer urls?
14:07:10 <welshdragon> Ammler: as it's PHPBB :P
14:07:31 <peter1138> What are you, an SEO marketer?
14:07:32 <Ammler> something like forums.net/123344/12343
14:09:20 <Ammler> it would allow typing the urls manually, as you can't click for example on the bananas urls :-)
14:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und die Welt zählt laut bis ZEHN
14:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: no. urls like welshdragon/164.0
14:11:57 <Ammler> acutally one ID is enough
14:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the argument is the same as for wiki pages, and there it was valid enough ;)
14:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe /t/<id> and /p/<id>
14:13:55 <ccfreak2k> Couldn't /t/<id> also be the <id> of the first post?
14:14:05 <Ammler> does it work to post without anchor?
14:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: no, one id can't mean two things at the same time
14:14:33 <Ammler> well, that could be added as well
14:14:38 <TrueBrain> please do not highlight me for such bullshit :D
14:15:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: make a ticket on flyspray (project website?)
14:15:33 <ccfreak2k> Oh, you guys are serous about this?
14:16:03 <kamnet> Anybody around to help a noob w/ grfmaker for his first time?
14:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: or make a thread in the feedback forum?
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14:26:23 <Ammler> kamnet: no grfmaker users here
14:26:58 <Xrufuian> That's not exactly true...
14:27:41 <kamnet> but that's okay. I actually got an almost-working grf together
14:28:15 <kamnet> I was hoping to use grfmaker as a shortcut to figure out the pcx palette issue I'm having
14:28:45 <Ammler> kamnet: you could try ttdviewer
14:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> kamnet: most of the palette issues can be solved by providing -p1 or -p2 as parameter to grfcodec
14:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that's unlikely to work :p
14:31:49 <kamnet> Well when I run grfcodec I'm getting the error "unrecognized palette, aborting".
14:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> then you didn't save the image properly
14:32:15 <Ammler> save the pcx with a petter balette then
14:33:36 <kamnet> That's where I'm clueless. :-)
14:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on which image editing program you use...
14:36:46 <Ammler> kamnet: is it able to read gimp palettes?
14:37:21 <Xrufuian> Paint.NET only suport's its own format.
14:37:49 <planetmaker> he :-) ^ I was just going to dig for those links :-)
14:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the link i posted talks about a plugin for palettes, but that link is 404
14:39:02 <Ammler> kamnet: maybe it can "generate" a palette from a image?
14:39:16 <Ammler> then load the palette image and "export"
14:40:35 <kamnet> Oh yes I found it now - Paint.NET uses a .txt file to define palettes.
14:40:58 <Ammler> kamnet: just be sure, you have a palette without action colors
14:41:05 <Ammler> for converting, but save with complete
14:41:28 <Ammler> test the final image with TTDViewer
14:48:18 <kamnet> Grrr. I'm so not having any luck with this
14:50:31 <Xrufuian> Well, Paint.NET doesn't suport predetermined paletts, in a maner usable for 8-bit imagery. The palette is more like a list of favorite colors.
14:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> better switch to gimp then ;)
14:52:48 <Xrufuian> I've used Paint.NET for making sprites. It's just tricky to get it to do things right.
14:52:49 <kamnet> Yeah it's still quite immature
14:53:32 <kamnet> argh can't somebody just do it for me??????? *mock whine*
14:55:53 <kamnet> downloading gimp. whee
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14:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not saying "gimp is better", but "gimp is known to work"
14:58:35 <kamnet> I wouldn't disagree with "gimp is better". just haven't attempted to use it in forever :-D
14:58:57 <Ammler> also photoshop could do the job, afaik
14:59:10 * Rubidium just quotes someone: "it simply works better"
14:59:31 <kamnet> last time I used it there was just a barely functioning version for windows and I was being heavily recruited for the dark side of the penguin
15:00:47 <kamnet> OK gimp loaded, how do I use this palette?
15:00:59 <Ammler> load all palettes I linked
15:01:13 <Ammler> load the image, convert to palette wihtout action and company colors
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15:01:51 <Ammler> convert to the full palette, save as pcx or png (nml)
15:03:10 <Ammler> convert: image->mode->index
15:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> someone really should patch grfcodec with png support...
15:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not what i meant ;)
15:03:43 <Ammler> someone could patch nml to use nfo as input ;-)
15:03:44 <planetmaker> grfcodec and renum don't receive any support obviously anyway.
15:04:07 <VVG> Anyone here uses nutracks? What are some cool and usefull things you can do with them which you can't do with normal tracks?
15:04:15 <VVG> i haven't tried them in actual game yet
15:04:27 <planetmaker> VVG, then I propose to do so
15:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: can nml create grfs independent of grfcodec?
15:04:32 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sure
15:04:36 <planetmaker> and faster at that, too
15:05:04 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: grfcodec won't work with suse 11.3 anymore, btw.
15:05:09 <planetmaker> at least it feels faster :-)
15:05:26 <kamnet> Where do I put this palette file? gimp's documentation isn't helping
15:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: why not?
15:05:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: gcc 4.5 is broken (or grfcodec's source)
15:05:41 <Ammler> well, you might be able to use a binary build on older linux
15:06:03 <Ammler> something with the compressor is broken
15:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so "won't build anymore" is more correct...
15:06:17 <VVG> that's why i'm asking - may be there are some cool setups to try
15:06:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it builds, just "invalid" code or something
15:06:56 <Rubidium> just nobody has bothered enough to actually start a debugging session
15:07:27 <Rubidium> in any case with -O0 it works fine, with -On (n>0) is fails
15:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> smells like invalid use of undefined features
15:09:15 <Rubidium> I actually fear that grfcodec is somewhat dead
15:09:50 <Rubidium> with both authors of grfcodec (and nforenum) being gone
15:10:38 <Rubidium> and the total lack of a response on patches that fix (serious) bugs
15:11:14 <Rubidium> or the actual bug reports
15:11:24 <Ammler> hmm, I wonder, if Fedora 13 has working grfcodec
15:13:16 <Rubidium> Ammler: that'll only show up one the next full repository rebuild
15:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> "openttd-devel-grfcodec.i586: W: non-standard-group Development/Tools"
15:13:57 <planetmaker> grfcodec for ages doesn't produce valid pcx when run on my mac
15:13:58 <kamnet> OK I'm lost on gimp here.
15:14:16 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: just a "W" :-)
15:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe use "Development/Tools/Other"?
15:14:36 <Ammler> that is new since around 4 monts
15:14:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: gcc 4.5?
15:15:07 <planetmaker> gcc 4.0, 4.2, 4.4 and 4.5
15:15:21 <planetmaker> both i386 and x64
15:15:24 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I could fix that, if there will ever be a new grfcodec build :-)
15:15:31 <planetmaker> at least I *think*
15:15:45 <planetmaker> But I reported it in the grfcodec thread... but no response
15:15:52 <planetmaker> it's only an invalid header
15:16:20 <planetmaker> the image date except the header itself is written properly
15:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "(notice the "Error: invalid compression, data diff at 449 of 1393 bytes, trying without it for this sprite")" <-- that phrase does not appear on the page
15:17:29 <Ammler> that is on the opengfx log
15:17:34 <kamnet> I'm lost on GIMP. I think I found how to load the palette, but I don't see how to convert the image to the palette
15:18:08 <Ammler> kamnet: [17:03] <Ammler> convert: image->mode->index
15:18:43 <Ammler> the custom palettes should be there on top
15:18:48 <kamnet> I don't see convert on the toolbar
15:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no spoon
15:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you must bend yourself
15:19:59 <Ammler> also if you convert to the final palette
15:20:09 <Ammler> you need to keep also unused colors
15:20:38 <Ammler> (there should be checkbox)
15:22:00 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: thanks to the md5check of opengfx, we found out that grfcodec is buggy
15:22:27 <kamnet> So.... there's no point in me using grfcodec at all, is there?
15:23:32 <kamnet> and I guess I'm still not doing it right in gimp. ttdviewer says it can't find a palette
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15:29:27 <kamnet> I clicked image->mode->indexed, indexed was already selected
15:29:36 <kamnet> I ent to save as pcx, there were no checkboxes or options
15:30:21 <planetmaker> kamnet, you might need to convert back to rgb in between different palettes. Stuipd, I know
15:30:30 <planetmaker> But probably I just don't know the right switch ;-)
15:31:28 <kamnet> Ah, yes, that got me that box
15:31:51 <kamnet> But I'm still getting a palette not detected error in ttdviewer
15:33:41 <Ammler> but we aren't artists ;-)
15:34:44 <kamnet> I'm not either. I just wanna use a couple of the field sprites from opengfx and make some fields that I like LOL
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15:36:05 <kamnet> But oh well. I am out of time for now. Perhaps I can do this tomorrow.
15:36:45 <kamnet> Thank you for the assistance, Ammler, Eddi & planetmaker. :-)
15:37:55 <Ammler> I liked to tell him, that we are looking forward to see some screens on the opengfx thread
15:38:02 <Ammler> maybe he does something useful
15:38:04 <planetmaker> hm. He should give them back to us :-)
15:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hmzz... i'm getting lots of "kernel: usb 2-3: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 2"
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15:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> about every minute, then it copies a few MB, and stops again, after a timeout, message appears again
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16:08:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20036 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3911]: tram tracks didn't show at level crossing with the new railtypes
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16:10:58 <planetmaker> thanks for the quick fix, Rubidium :-)
16:11:36 <Ammler> does railtype also allow a kind of disallow road crossing?
16:12:15 <Rubidium> besides showing nasty images on the level crossing (like dbset)?
16:12:53 <Ammler> dbset has parameter to disable that :-)
16:13:54 <planetmaker> hm... nasty images on level crossings?
16:14:37 <Ammler> well, I would prefer nasty image then for example maglev crossing road
16:14:52 <Rubidium> planetmaker: like the MORE and STOP images in dbset for telling you should make the train longer/shorter... make some nasty graphics "telling" you shouldn't do something
16:17:03 <planetmaker> Ammler, how do I activate the magnifying glass under KDE / Suse?
16:17:21 <planetmaker> All things surely will be better in the next release of the db set
16:17:51 <Ammler> then I have no idea :-)
16:17:54 <planetmaker> I need a new computer for that
16:17:59 <Ammler> don't hink KDE3 has such features
16:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with the DBSet level crossings?
16:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: kmag or something...
16:18:40 <planetmaker> they're not present anyway when used in conjunction with SE rails
16:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i did use magnifying glass once upon a time in KDE 3...
16:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't remember the exact package to install
16:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in kde4 it seems to be "kmag" package, and in kde3 "kdeaccessibility"
16:23:14 <planetmaker> ah, thanks. I'll look there :-)
16:23:54 <planetmaker> hm... DBSet is stupid. It de-activates itself in arctic.
16:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it has an exception if alpine is detected ;)
16:24:22 <planetmaker> probably I'm not the right "player-material" ;-)
16:24:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and alpine climate is one huge glitch
16:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you only need a dummy grf with the same grf-id ;)
16:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, alpine is unlikely to look well with opengfx...
16:25:39 <planetmaker> it is not only unlikely, it's really ugly.
16:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> well, just don't do that then...
16:26:03 <planetmaker> besides: uploading a "Not-Alpine-Climate" with that GRFID to bananas would be fun ;-)
16:26:10 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's why I don't ;-)
16:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> make a modified alpine with opengfx-houses ;)
16:26:21 <planetmaker> It's for that reason on my personal "don't ever use" list
16:26:33 <planetmaker> And when I do house set... then a real one
16:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i like alpine, i just modded the industries out of it
16:26:45 <planetmaker> which will work independent on base set
16:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "the next version" of alpine will probably feature full house replacement ;)
16:29:35 <planetmaker> :-) Before I used OpenGFX I found it quite nice, too
16:29:43 <planetmaker> But it's just not MP compatible anymore
16:30:22 <Yexo> from what I've found the cwd should be replaced by cdq
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16:30:34 <Yexo> can someone with some more assembly knowledge take a look at it?
16:30:47 <planetmaker> he... and no TTDP maintainers there to check it out? :S
16:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there are TTDP maintainers?
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16:33:19 <planetmaker> not in the past 8 weeks
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16:40:22 <Pikel> so umm ... I know this isn't exactly the right forum for this but I got the game working just fine ... build one train, track and stations and all that, the train is running just fine, built another set of tracks, attached to the original line, second train house and train, gave it orders but it won't budge (going to different locations) and I can't figure out why :D
16:40:57 <Yexo> you need to place some signals
16:40:57 <planetmaker> this is the right forum for this. But I don't understand the long sentence :-)
16:41:27 <Yexo> planetmaker: 3 connected stations, no signals, he wonders why the second train doesn't start
16:41:43 <planetmaker> that's a good breakdown :-)
16:42:22 <planetmaker> and I didn't think of "no signals" :-)
16:44:10 <Sacro> that whole wiki page has front/back mixed up
16:44:19 <Sacro> trains wait behind a signal
16:44:24 <Sacro> and you signal behind the junction
16:45:12 <Pikel> ya they are connected out of conviences but part a and port b for each train don't cross
16:45:45 <planetmaker> Pikel, signal blocks count. Not possible or desired paths
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16:54:52 <Pikel> huzzuh! now to build more stuff lol
16:56:09 <Pikel> can the mpa be rotated?
16:57:39 <Xrufuian> Nope. But you can press [X] to toggle transparency.
17:00:55 <Pikel> can the popup's be shut off? they are damned annoying.
17:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> click and hold the news icon at the top
17:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> set the unimportant ones (like "new industry opens", "industry changes production", "vehicle arrives at station" etc.) to off
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17:27:48 <Pikel> heh ... how do I fix a broke down train?
17:28:11 <PeterT> or turn off break downs
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17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20037 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt:
17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: serbian - 7 changes by etran
17:52:57 <Pikel> moar questions :D how do I clean up a train collision?
17:56:37 <Wolf01> aaaah... today is a good day to stop working... permanently
18:00:13 <Wolf01> no, I directly resigned...
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18:00:48 <PeterT> also...congrats, now you have some free time to play OpenTTD :p
18:01:18 <Wolf01> I already had it... during lunch time
18:02:41 <Wolf01> now I want to recharge my batteries and try the path of Neo... ehm... teaching IT to others
18:03:08 <Wolf01> but Information Technology
18:05:17 <__ln__> what programming language were you softwaredeveloping in?
18:05:27 <Pikel> ok so how do I get wood to the woodmill now? do I just build a station out in the middle of no where?
18:06:38 <Wolf01> that's the best one I know, I'm programming with basic for 20 years, since my very first "PC"
18:08:09 <Wolf01> maybe I should stop talking like Yoda
18:08:29 <Rubidium> talking like Yoda you should
18:08:43 <Wolf01> that's the one I know best
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18:09:51 <__ln__> how many italian verbs do i need to learn in order to speak convincing italian using otherwise spanish grammar and vocabulary?
18:11:13 <Wolf01> italian is the worst language to learn, we have a lot of grammatical rules
18:11:39 <__ln__> i've taken one course of italian, but that was 10 years ago
18:12:50 <Wolf01> the biggest problem is the subjunctive conjugation, then the auxiliary verbs
18:13:54 <Wolf01> and we don't have any form of knowing if a sentence is a question... we have only the "?" at the end :D
18:14:23 <Rubidium> Wolf01: I would say Japanese is harder (for European people at least)
18:14:25 <Wolf01> that's why I often mistake questions on English
18:15:20 <Wolf01> Rubidium: not too much, the problem is to give the right meaning at a pictogram
18:16:00 <__ln__> Wolf01: there's subjunctive in spanish too, i suppose it's more or less used for similar purposes
18:16:28 <Wolf01> it should be the same...
18:17:22 <Rubidium> Wolf01: someone that knows some French, Spanish, German and English should be able to decipher Italian relatively easily... but deciphering Japanese/Chinese/Korean or Hungarian/Finnish is much more difficult
18:18:12 <Wolf01> yes, I agree, we have a common trunk, they are another branch of languages
18:19:50 <Rubidium> in any case... it's highly subjective which language is hardest
18:19:52 <Wolf01> __ln__: I suggest you to find a forum of your interest and start posting in it, the practice is the best way to learn a language
18:20:43 <Wolf01> that's how I learnt English, at least reading and writing it...
18:20:45 <__ln__> i've understood the native italian way is to join random irc channels and speak italian with mirc colors. would you recommend that approach?
18:21:31 <Wolf01> we ban that kind of people, they have their own channels to do that
18:22:00 <__ln__> yes, usually that approach results in a kickban within 15 seconds
18:23:17 <Belugas> mmh... not quite an autodidact, i fear...
18:23:38 <Wolf01> mmmh... I'm considering to plug in the XBox to the backup plug
18:23:55 <__ln__> Belugas: voilà la baguette
18:24:29 <Wolf01> I was in the middle of a combat when 30 seconds ago the light hopped
18:24:44 <Pikel> ok so why won't a train load when it' at a station?
18:26:00 <Wolf01> gah... not enough plugs
18:26:24 <Belugas> Pikel, you know that ALL yuor questions are answered easily in the wiki, don't you?
18:27:01 <Wolf01> does the wiki tells you there's a wiki?
18:27:47 <Belugas> general wiki might easily point to open's wiki indeed :)
18:28:01 <Belugas> even Google can point to open's wiki
18:38:33 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
18:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> gah... not enough plugs <-- use a plug extension ;)
18:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but are power fluctuations that common at your place?
18:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they're fairly rare here ... unless someone triggers the circuit breaker...
18:53:53 <Wolf01> here we are used to 3KW/h @home, 4KW/h costs a lot more, and if you power 3 big electric devices at the same time you should know what happens
18:54:51 <Wolf01> and yes, we have a lot of power fluctuations, that's why I have the entire PC network plugged to some UPS
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18:57:01 <__ln__> what kind of a unit is kW per hour...
18:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he meant kWh/h ;)
18:58:41 <Wolf01> I always mistake it and km/h or kmh
18:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i'm fairly sure you meant just kW
18:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> kW is to km/h like kWh is to km
19:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so kW is the "speed" at which the current comes, and "kWh" is the "distance" that you travelled
19:00:21 <Wolf01> we pay for how many hours we use a value of kW
19:00:43 <frosch123> many kW hurt your fuses, many kWh hurt your purse
19:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you pay for how many "kWh" you used over the course of a year
19:01:00 <Wolf01> like "you used 2.5kW for 55 hours, 2.7kW for 22 hours and you exceeded 3.1kW for 15 minutes"
19:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but you may not use more than x "kW" at any single time
19:01:37 <Wolf01> we are capped to 3.3kW
19:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard of such a limit here...
19:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and surely we can have more than 3 computers running at the same time...
19:02:47 <frosch123> your computer needs 1kW?
19:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but he said "three big devices"...
19:03:10 <Wolf01> and if we reach that limit they cut the power instantaneously, but we can use 3.2kW for 1 minute and 3.1kW for 10 minutes
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19:04:11 <ctibor> Wolf01: You live in North Korea or where? :-)
19:04:12 <Wolf01> three big devices like: fridge, dishwashing machine, and the sum of 2 TV + 3 computers :D
19:04:37 <__ln__> actually a fridge doesn't take much power, less than 100W
19:04:53 <Wolf01> but when it need to start it takes a peak
19:05:10 <Wolf01> and maybe at the same time starts the boiler too
19:05:14 <Wibble199> fridges don't blow cold air onto food, they suck heat out of it
19:05:45 <__ln__> but indeed devices that use electricity to heat up water are the ones that eat most
19:06:41 <Wolf01> and in the exact same moment my mother clicks the button to light the gas for cooking!
19:07:15 <Wolf01> so we exceed about 10kW for a microsecond :D
19:07:36 <__ln__> unlikely, if you have fuses
19:07:51 <glx> the limit here is in Ampere
19:08:43 <Wolf01> we use a sort of multimeter which is linked with the power distribution central, to take measurements by-wire
19:09:18 <Wolf01> that's why they know the exact ammount of power consumed
19:09:42 <glx> we pay for kWh consumed, but there's no limit, except max A
19:09:49 <__ln__> Wolf01: so if you short-circuit two wires, the wires in the walls melt, because no fuses?
19:10:09 <glx> for our house it's 2x15A, but most people have 1x30A
19:10:19 <Wolf01> no, we must have circuit breaking switches
19:10:47 <__ln__> glx: but that's a technical/physical and not economic limit?
19:10:50 <Wolf01> I use 2x6A if I'm not wrong
19:12:03 <Wolf01> but only for the power line, the lights and other "light power" plugs should use 8A max
19:12:43 <Wolf01> that's in theory, because of security normatives
19:13:07 <Wolf01> but instead we always put on 2x16A
19:13:14 <glx> __ln__: IIRC 2x15A is cheaper than 30A, and it's possible to get more
19:13:50 <__ln__> i have 1x20A + 2x10A in my apartment (though the main fuse is probably only 25A per apartment)... and this is low by today's standards. we'll get thicker wires in a few months in this building.
19:14:47 <glx> anyway we use 16A fuses ;)
19:15:38 <Wolf01> I'm waiting for a good offer to purchase some (some=5kW) solar panels... I know some people who already purchased them and they don't pay current at all, they sell it instead :D
19:15:45 <glx> so the main circuit breaker is triggered first
19:16:18 <glx> Wolf01: well you sell your production and pay for what you consume
19:16:44 <__ln__> 5 kW sounds like a lot of solar panels
19:21:15 <Wolf01> the thing that sound nice is that the small neightbour's house roof is small as my car's shelter... we used the same roof modules to build the roof :D
19:24:09 <Wolf01> uhm, about shelters... what about the station's newgrf gui? There is any intention to do some effort to apply it to trunk?
19:25:44 * Rubidium seems to remember it not being updated to the new GUI "standard"
19:27:10 <Rubidium> and I rather get rid of the (relatively) huge amount of open bugs
19:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> so the main circuit breaker is triggered first <-- that kinda doesn't make any sense...
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19:30:38 <glx> washing machines, oven, ... are usually protected by 16A fuses
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19:31:04 <glx> but we have only 15A allowed at max
19:32:03 <glx> so if there's a shortcircuit in one of those, or just too many on at the same time, the main circuit breaker takes precedence
19:32:22 <__ln__> cooker/stove (containing oven) is usually protected by 25A or 20A in older installations here
19:34:57 <glx> but we have 2 phases, and we know how are "linked" the consumers, so the too much at same time usually doesn't happen
19:35:11 <glx> and recent devices consume way less too
19:36:25 <Belugas> too bad my wife is not a recent device :(
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19:38:25 <waterfoul> is there some kind of ruler?
19:39:16 <Wolf01> |----'----|----'----|----'----| <- this one?
19:39:22 <waterfoul> a ruler to find out the distance inbetween towns
19:39:58 <Wolf01> ok, but the first thing to say is, usually, "hello" :P
19:40:23 <waterfoul> sorry :D I was just distracted
19:40:28 <glx> not really what he wants Wolf01
19:40:34 <Rubidium> road/rail/removal tools can have a tooltip which tells stuff about area/length/height
19:41:03 <Rubidium> although those don't quite work over non-straight lines
19:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the level land tool can measure two directions, just add those up ;)
19:41:39 <Wolf01> next feature: manhattan distance ruler which works like the Google Maps ruler
19:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure you hold shift or press escape before letting go of the mouse button ;)
19:42:38 <Wolf01> to do what, I don't know, but it's always useful like a screwdriver in the car
19:43:13 <waterfoul> Wolf01 actually that was what I was after
19:51:50 <glx> Wolf01: there are more useful things to have in a car, like jumper cable or drawbar
19:52:41 <Wolf01> ok, but don't look at me when you need a screwdriver
19:53:37 <Prof_Frink> glx: I dunno. The right sort of screwdriver...
19:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> knowing Prof_Frink, that's probably a sonic one ;)
19:54:55 <Rubidium> the green or the blue one?
19:55:08 <Prof_Frink> Blue with red settings.
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20:16:21 <waterfoul> the problem I am having is with the max thing... I figured out that max just takes the maximum value but what is the 31,{ thing
20:17:43 <Hirundo> it takes either 31 or {...}, whichever is bigger
20:17:47 <Yexo> the result of max(A, B) is A if A is higher then B, otherwise B
20:17:57 <Rubidium> the 31 is just a value, the { can be seen as a "choice"; one of the three formulae listed there should be executed. The preconditions for that are in the "second" column.
20:18:00 <Yexo> in this case A=31 and B=that other description
20:20:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20038 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Change: move SafeSaveOrLoad a bit
20:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that message is kinda difficult to parse
20:24:33 <Rubidium> how is it difficult?
20:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> first stumbling point was "Safe" and "Save"
20:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and from that on, i was probably out of my usual reading pace
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20:31:48 <waterfoul> roughly how many squares is a KM or MI
20:32:28 <Rubidium> waterfoul: as many/few as you want
20:32:44 <Alberth> there is no consistent idea of size of a tile
20:33:12 * Yexo has just seen a windows blue screen :(
20:33:14 <Rubidium> waterfoul: anywhere between some 5-10 meter a tile up to almost 700 kilometer per tile can be considered correct
20:33:42 * Rubidium wonders whether his "create a blue screen" trick still works
20:34:05 <Rubidium> waterfoul: km/h as in vehicle speed
20:34:22 <waterfoul> I figured but then what is d in km?
20:34:28 <Rubidium> and in that case the ~700 km per tile is the closest
20:36:57 <Alberth> usually distance is simply tile count
20:37:40 <waterfoul> I'm trying to get t out of the km/hr value...
20:38:54 <waterfoul> btw does anyone know anything about maple
20:39:03 <Rubidium> but to determine t you need at least v and d
20:39:22 <Rubidium> waterfoul: yeah, it's a cool command line tool for math
20:39:43 <waterfoul> I can't figure out how to add the conditional piece to my equation
20:41:12 <Rubidium> waterfoul: my doorstop says piecewise
20:42:47 <Wolf01> vitriolic destroyer FTW!!!1
21:00:00 <waterfoul> so if I'm reading this right I need to take x km/hr multiply it times 1 tile / 686 km then multiply by tiles then convert the 1/hr into days. Once I have that I divide by 2.5
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21:08:26 <waterfoul> hmmm i have something wrong
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21:39:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20039 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: (log message trimmed)
21:39:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3907]: instead of loading the intro game when loading a savegame fails on the dedicated server, generate a new game.
21:39:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Generating a new game is the least bad solution:
21:39:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: * loading the intro game: desyncs due to GM_MENU on the server and GM_NORMAL on the clients, NewGRFs not being loaded on the server but being loaded on the client;
21:39:08 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: * creating an empty map: OpenTTD will go crazy due to missing towns. Also clients can't properly join because of the missing towns;
21:39:08 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: * loading the last saved game: doesn't always exist and loading it might fail causing an infinite loop;
21:39:10 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: * stopping being a server: breaks the dedicated server horribly; if you loaded the game via rcon you can't connect with it anymore as you can't join the server;
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21:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there are apparently things that are not in the internet...
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22:11:48 <tdev> does someone know a good online meeting / screen casting software
22:11:56 <tdev> thats for free for non-comm. usage?
22:18:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20040 /trunk/src/ (screenshot.cpp screenshot.h): -Codechange: some coding style + using proper types
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23:28:31 <kamnet> Good evening, anybody home?
23:37:34 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: you are aware of Apple's developer program license agreement doesn't allow interpreted code, right? That would mean that both AIs and NewGRFs are not allowed (they both have interpreted code) and in effect OpenTTD is unuseable as some 10% of OpenTTD's base graphics come from a NewGRF. Examples of base graphics are coming from that NewGRF are: many pieces of the GUI, canals, pre/exit/combo/path signals, etc.
23:38:52 <zodttd_work> It's not interpreted binary code, like emulation though, correct? That is what that rule is targetting, emulation.
23:39:29 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: I won't send Apple an email about this as it's not infringing on my rights whatsoever (although they could've found it quite easily by reading the readme)
23:40:08 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: I'd say that NewGRFs is interpreting binary code and technically AIs are interpreted binary code, although that's compiled upon load
23:40:13 <zodttd_work> Rubidium: I appreciate that. I don't think that's the type of interpreter they're targetting though. They allow XML interpreters for instance, but not CPU interpreters.
23:40:54 <zodttd_work> Basically their way of stopping video game console / computer emulation
23:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm not at home... why would anybody come to that conclusion? :p
23:42:13 <zodttd_work> Rubidium: I have had tons of work to do. I am planning an update to OpenTTD for iPad. Is there some specifics you'd like to see in the update? I'll take good care to get them done.
23:44:56 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: "No interpreted code may be downloaded or used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Documented APIs and built-in interpreter(s)."
23:45:25 <Rubidium> ofcourse... what is interpreting, but if flash is interpreted then NewGRFs would be as well
23:45:53 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause is not at home. Eddi|zuHause is zu Hause.
23:46:05 <zodttd_work> Right, it gets to be a grey area since a lot of people download XML and use inhouse XML parsers for instance
23:46:35 <zodttd_work> The code you interpret here doesnt get executed
23:47:13 <zodttd_work> For instance Apple wont allow you to download executable bytecode, interpret it, and execute it.
23:47:28 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: well... you could close the whole "blame OpenTTD for enforcing GPL" stuff, but I don't see anything pertinent that needs to be changed in Apple ports
23:47:43 <zodttd_work> Will definitely do so
23:48:30 <Rubidium> fjb: s/got/has been/;s/\.$/ for ages./
23:48:56 <zodttd_work> At a meetup.com local iPhone developer meeting at the moment. When I get back I will update the site and clear lots of stuff up.
23:49:33 <fjb> But they get worse than Microsoft with their user control now.
23:51:32 <Rubidium> zodttd_work: what is executing? If flash is interpreted and it's used to control some graphics based on some state, then it's the same as NewGRFs; they also control some graphics based on state. Yes, you can actually code stuff in NewGRF. Maybe not as sophisticated as in flash, but still you can make all kinds of decisions, perform math and change state
23:52:38 <glx> especially ECS vectors can be worse than flash with cpu usage ;)
23:52:39 <kamnet> ZOMG YES! I've made my first NewGRF! I'm excited. :-)
23:52:43 <zodttd_work> Flash was being interpreted from one bytecode to another and then executed, for performance reasons from what Im aware of.
23:53:59 <zodttd_work> Thats why they went the route of compile time Flash in CS5
23:54:10 <zodttd_work> Which Apple went after as well :P
23:56:06 <kamnet> Just curious, does anybody know if you can make station tiles animate based on the month the game is in?
23:57:21 <Rubidium> kamnet: I think you can, modulo 256 ticks or something
23:58:32 <kamnet> Very cool. I might have to look into that sometime. I know this might sound crazy but I'm going to make a station tile set for farms. Would be nice if I could have the field tiles change as the months go along to simulate the in-game action.
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