IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-04-18
⏴ go to previous day
00:06:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
00:39:35 <Pulec> i would like to have lunch now
00:39:52 <Pulec> some of us live during the night
01:03:28 <Cadde> I pwn during the night ;)
01:06:39 <Cadde> Sorry for this stupid question, but what (apart from writing it to the savegame) effects does changing the savegame verion from say 400 to 401 have. Or in the case of the "More heightlevels patch", set it to "MORE_HEIGHTLEVEL_SAVEGAME_VERSION" (which is 201).
01:07:59 <glx> different version means different data locations
01:08:55 <glx> due to more data or less data stored in the savegame
01:10:39 <Cadde> When i want to combine many patches into one patch these change the number from 400 to 401 and heightlevels changes it to be 201, would that break something for the other patches.
01:11:08 <glx> you need to be careful to merge all changes
01:12:04 <Cadde> So which one should i be using? To me, heightlevels seems to be the one that would make the biggest change in savegames.
01:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Cadde: savegame version is particularly relevant for loading older savegames
01:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> typically you want savegame version to be trink version +1, in case you want to keep older patched savegames, trunk version +2
01:12:58 <Cadde> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, that i can understand. I don't care much for loading older savegames right now. All i want is to make sure i don't break other patches.
01:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to update all patches to use the same savegame version
01:15:58 <Cadde> Ah i see, so they should really be using 401 instead of 201
01:16:13 <Cadde> because 401 would be trunk + the extra bits
01:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use trunk version +1, you make sure you can load all "unmodified" savegames
01:17:59 <Cadde> I still don't get the internal functionality of the version but i shall start using trunk + 1 instead of the heightlevels version i used lately.
01:40:52 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest343
01:40:55 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
01:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually really easy: each setting has a range "from ... to" where it is valid.
01:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "from" is usually "version at which this setting is introduced" and "to" is "max version"
02:20:49 *** DaleStan_ has joined #openttd
02:20:49 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest345
02:20:49 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
02:23:51 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest347
02:23:53 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
02:35:20 *** DaleStan_ has joined #openttd
02:35:20 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest348
02:35:20 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
03:08:29 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
03:16:46 *** r0b0tb0y has joined #openttd
03:32:54 *** Elmzran has joined #openttd
03:47:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
04:16:51 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
04:18:06 <Mazur> Ok, set up a testing ground for myself, three coal mines making me a million and a half each year.
04:27:38 <ccfreak2k> Testing station throughput?
04:57:07 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:58:58 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
06:11:41 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
06:11:56 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
06:12:21 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest364
06:12:22 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
07:26:22 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
07:29:22 <peter1138> 08:29 Irssi uptime: 229d 11h 59m 31s
07:30:10 * andythenorth wishes Bananas had a 'what changed?' text field
07:30:20 <andythenorth> when adding a new version
07:30:44 <planetmaker> you changed it once, you change it now ;-)
07:31:08 <planetmaker> and woosh you go and implement bananas 1.5
07:32:30 <andythenorth> FISH FISH FISH FISH FISH
07:32:34 <andythenorth> And they ate lots of FISH
07:32:36 * peter1138 wonders what to do with a DV cam
07:32:43 <ccfreak2k> andythenorth, if only there was a log of such changes.
07:32:47 <ccfreak2k> I would call it...a changelog.
07:33:29 <andythenorth> meanwhile, FISH 0.4 now on bananas
07:33:45 <andythenorth> I tested it not at all extensively so I may have broke it
07:38:06 <andythenorth> ha ha, lead@inbox has just sent me the render for a fricking enormous passenger hovercraft :D
07:38:20 <andythenorth> it *may* overlap the depot, but we'll take that chance
07:41:02 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
07:48:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:52:15 <andythenorth> how much does a passenger weigh in openttd?
07:52:30 *** lolman is now known as Guest369
07:57:42 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
07:59:13 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 25.666
07:59:48 * andythenorth has a set balancing problem
08:00:23 * andythenorth wonders if 'screw it' will solve the problem
08:02:31 <planetmaker> hm, how did I enable the newgrf debug mode?
08:12:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you know that^ :-)
08:52:42 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
08:57:29 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:02:53 *** Guest369 is now known as lolman
09:07:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:41:43 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
09:42:06 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
09:42:08 <TrueBrain> everytime I have the idea the amount of downloads go down, there comes anohter wave of downloads ...
09:42:48 <Alberth> perhaps we should stop making new releases...
09:46:53 <TrueBrain> passed the 100,000 downloads for 1.0.0 .. how nice :)
09:47:02 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
09:47:04 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
09:47:20 <Alberth> the game basically sells itself, it was and still is, an addictive game
09:47:45 <TrueBrain> and our webservices are more or less stable :) Also very nice :)
09:47:51 <Rubidium> 115k bananas downloads yesterday (55 GiB)
09:48:26 <Rubidium> quite a jump from 87k bananas downloads which was the previous 'record'
09:48:53 <TrueBrain> and almost no complains about the http implementation :)
09:48:57 <Rubidium> oh, it was only 49 GiB, not 55
09:49:11 <Alberth> such numbers are really too big to imagine what is happening at the servers.
09:49:14 <TrueBrain> I still remember someone saying it wouldn't be simple to make a http component ;)
09:49:48 <Rubidium> "only" 80-85% goes over the http
09:49:59 <TrueBrain> what was that value in december?
09:50:23 <TrueBrain> @calc 1018379 / 3600 / 24
09:50:23 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 11.7867939815
09:50:31 * Alberth gives TB a big hug for making such a nice server system
09:50:33 <TrueBrain> 11 hits per second on the httpd .. that did decrease after the slashdot :p
09:50:40 <TrueBrain> Alberth: Rubidium helped too
09:51:00 * Alberth gives RB also a big, well-deserved hug
09:52:09 <Alberth> not bad for a bunch of volunteers :p
09:52:15 <DanMacK> Refresh my memory, it's been awhile - How do I chat in MP again?
09:52:35 <TrueBrain> 0.35M hits per day go to the django instance .. impressive performance ..
09:53:19 <TrueBrain> owh, that number is wrong .. just 0.06M goes to django
09:53:22 <TrueBrain> that is more what I would expect :p
09:53:39 <TrueBrain> 0.45M goes to media.openttd.org :)
09:53:41 <Alberth> @calc 0.06*1000*1000 / (24 * 60 * 60)
09:53:41 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 0.694444444444
09:53:49 <Rubidium> 70% of "OpenTTD" bandwidth is taken over by the mirrors, so 30% for our main server (which now uses about 60% of its bandwidth for HTTP over 70% on April 1st); 130 GiB of traffic a day
09:55:58 <TrueBrain> I am very happy we moved media. away from the django instance .. it would not have survived, if I have to guess :p
09:56:20 <TrueBrain> wiki: 397k, bug: 19k
09:57:15 <Rubidium> one or two days of this traffic and the 30 day average of bananas downloads exceeds the 1.0.0-beta1 peak :)
09:58:08 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
10:11:31 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
10:23:34 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
10:24:28 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
10:26:07 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
10:28:01 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
10:31:46 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
10:37:37 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
10:39:31 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
10:48:26 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
10:58:15 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
11:01:43 * DanMacK would much rather be playing TTD
11:02:49 * DanMacK is at work... No TTD here... :(
11:03:05 <Rubidium> so, take your TTD CD to work
11:03:26 <Ammler> install it (no admin required) ;-
11:03:29 * DanMacK can't play, so he will sprite
11:04:59 <DanMacK> Andy, That looks cool!
11:05:50 <Chris_Booth> DanMacK: you put it on a flash drive
11:06:16 <Chris_Booth> then make sure you remember ATL + F4 to close it fast if someone sees you playing
11:07:16 <DanMacK> We have terminals, no actual tower :P
11:08:12 <Chris_Booth> DanMacK: now be resourceful, you must have some cars near by
11:08:32 <Chris_Booth> steel a car battery and a transformer to 240v or 120v
11:08:39 <Chris_Booth> and connect it to you PC lol
11:08:57 <Chris_Booth> i am not condoning theft
11:09:00 <Mazur> OIr use a laptop as a terminal.
11:09:12 <Chris_Booth> maz my way is more fun
11:09:45 <Mazur> May way is easier, and as I'm inherently lazy...
11:09:48 <elmz_> hm, the new loading algorithm for loading trains is a bit flawed...it lowers your cargo rating a bit :/
11:11:37 <elmz_> on one station I hade 100%/100% with old algorithm, then it was lowered to 89%94% with the new algorithm...
11:13:16 <Chris_Booth> elmz_: but it does give better nework balance
11:14:25 <Rubidium> elmz_: the old algorithm is flawed too
11:14:40 <elmz_> haha, true that ^^ even more so ^^
11:14:48 <Rubidium> and one can consider the old algorithm even more flawed
11:15:20 <Rubidium> because it could lower your rating even more by having all trans wanting to depart at the same time causing even more cargo to get stockpiled
11:16:05 <elmz_> wow, this really makes me want to try to improve the algorithm ^^
11:16:11 <Chris_Booth> old loading would be rubish on huge stations that trains needed to full load at
11:16:43 <Chris_Booth> i never used to use more than 2 platforms with ques to stop rating droping
11:16:49 <Rubidium> elmz_: good luck with that
11:17:21 <elmz_> I don't have the tools or skills, sadly ;/
11:17:23 <Rubidium> remember: you only know about the cargo already at the station, so you have to spread that over trains so they get loaded in FIFO order
11:17:24 <Chris_Booth> elmz_: you wouldnt want a perfect algorithm anyway
11:17:40 <elmz_> no, all algorithms would have drawbacks
11:18:18 <Rubidium> what probably could help is disabling gradual loading
11:18:30 <Rubidium> or enable it, but make the vehicles take as much cargo as possible
11:18:41 <Rubidium> instead of only 5 or so per cycle
11:19:45 <elmz_> it should be possible to select separate loading algorithms for every station ^^
11:20:21 <elmz_> you want different behaviour from a goods station and a passenger station.
11:21:33 <elmz_> strict FIFO would be good at a goods station, you never know how long it is until the next steel train. but at a passenger station there will be more cargo next tick (at least for large towns)
11:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there needs to be a "pre-waiting area" where cargo is gathered for a few ticks first
11:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> to avoid odd behaviour at passenger stations, that the train waits for a full load even though it isn't scheduled to do so
11:24:42 <elmz_> yeah, that sucks ^^ if 1 passenger arrives each tick a train without full load will still wait forever ^^
11:32:42 <planetmaker> elmz_: only till fully loaded ;-)
11:32:42 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
11:33:12 <elmz_> that would be virtually an eternity with 1 passenger/tick ;)
11:33:59 <Rubidium> not nearly as long as a 100 part (50 tile) train on a 1 tile station loading 1 passenger per cycle
11:35:05 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:40:39 *** xintron has joined #openttd
11:41:11 <xintron> Is there a way to make the text bigger in-game somehow (running windowed mode 1920x1080 and the text is damn small)
11:42:24 <planetmaker> you might want to look at your openttd.cfg
11:42:31 <planetmaker> text sizes are defined in there
11:42:41 <xintron> so, no way to change it "in-game"?
11:44:17 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
11:44:21 <Rubidium> though the font's fine for me on 1920x1200 (15")
11:44:25 <xintron> what parameter is it?
11:44:48 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
11:45:14 <Rubidium> xintron: ..._font and ..._size (where ... is small, medium or large)
11:46:11 <Jupix> the font's unreadable on 2560x1600 viewed from 150cm away :P
11:46:52 <xintron> well, I've got a problem reading it on my screen onli 40cm away :P
11:50:38 <xintron> what's the default font then?
11:51:04 <Rubidium> a fixed size pixel font
11:51:25 <xintron> any normal font similar to that font?
11:52:57 <xintron> or, nvm, I'll stay with this setup (only some text that's hard to read
12:03:41 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
12:10:39 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
12:21:00 *** woldemar has joined #openttd
12:35:56 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
12:46:02 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
13:10:59 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
13:19:44 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
13:36:01 *** r0b0tb0y has joined #openttd
13:51:48 *** lobstar has joined #openttd
14:00:48 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
14:24:25 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
14:27:33 <Peping> anybody here willing to help me design new kind of goal server for OpenTTD? Enough imagination and AbiWord will do for me :)
14:28:10 <Peping> I can even wait for you to download AbiWord.. I just need somebody to brainstorm with me :)
14:28:25 <Peping> I'm just making a design document :)
14:28:32 <Peping> query me if interested
14:29:15 <Alberth> best way may be to make a thread at the forums
14:30:28 <Peping> not registered@forums.. But maybe you're right..
14:30:53 <Peping> If nobody writes back in 30 minutes.. I'll register at the forums
14:32:06 <Alberth> before you spoke, the last talk here was 1h, 40m ago
14:33:58 <Peping> that's right.. But I guess if you noticed this, anybody else will probably notice it too :) And 1h 40m ago was me coming in and saying "hi" to you :)
14:34:29 <Alberth> I was having a discussion in the window below this one :)
14:34:55 <Peping> oh... I guess you're right then... :|
14:35:57 * Rubidium wonders how to interpret that question
14:36:29 <Rubidium> either you've got some idea, but you've not written anything down... or you've got no ideas yet, you just want to run a goal server because they are popular
14:36:56 <Peping> I do have an idea and I have written something down.
14:37:22 <Peping> And this idea is far from the servers already existing..
14:37:48 <Peping> But I need somebody to think of improvements and faulties in my writing
14:40:17 <Rubidium> oh, the better of the two cases :)
14:41:13 <Rubidium> and have you made the most important design decision already? Custom clients or standard (stable) clients?
14:43:44 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
14:43:55 <Peping> standard clients, to make it suitable for most players. The game will not require any special grfs or anything.. Maybe in future releases, but not probably. But yet I'm not sure if one thing is possible and I have not looked through the source to find out yet. Can server spend player's money?
14:44:08 <Peping> I wouldn't say so, just asking
14:44:58 <Peping> (oops, double "yet" in one sentence.. sry :) )
14:46:33 <Rubidium> a server can spend a player's money as long as the player has money and there's something to spend it on
14:46:40 <Rubidium> e.g. a tile to clear or so
14:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the server can send money from one company to another
14:47:22 <Rubidium> if the player has no loan the server can also send a "donate money" command to send money to another company
14:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "has no loan" or "bank balance is over loan"?
14:48:44 <Rubidium> you can't send loaned money
14:49:47 <Peping> right... So if I want to spend huge amounts of money, the best solution would be to send the money from a player to a protected company created by the server for that purpose.
14:50:13 <Peping> *spend amounts of money belonging to a client
14:51:05 <frosch123> when you start the server you can create a dummy company with some billions of money
14:51:19 <Peping> that's what I wanted to do :)
14:51:35 <frosch123> but you cannot increase its funds while other clients are connected
14:51:36 <planetmaker> Peping: make sure you actually develop (also) for trunk ;-)
14:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you can start the game in single player, cheat money, and load that savegame in multiplayer
14:51:59 <planetmaker> thus it might be more sustainable development
14:53:44 <Alberth> using a dummy company sounds a bit hackish to me
14:53:58 <Peping> Eddi|zuHause: that would become difficult If I ran in on a dedicated server with no display.. (which is what I want to actually do). I'll try to figure it all out from the source :)
14:54:24 <Peping> Alberth: it indeed is.. But seems like the only way according to what was said
14:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can likely hack it to be able to cheat while no clients are connected yet
14:54:53 <Alberth> Peping: with all sources, it is never the only way.
14:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the difficulty is the premise to use unchanged clients
14:55:32 <Alberth> all clients eventually use trunk :)
14:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but that requires additional development criteria like code quality and feautre desirability for inclusion
14:56:23 <Peping> hey.. I've got enough time to solve these problems.. Now I need somebody with a creative mind to help me finish the design document.. Anybody? :)
14:56:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19670 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add CeilDiv() and RoundDiv() to simplify integer divisions with rounding.
14:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's by far not trivial ;)
14:57:36 <Alberth> Peping: I do intend to do some messing around with scripted control of the world. However that is a tad bigger than your goal. Also I don't have time to do that now.
14:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have you ever looked at the game balance branch to see if some parts of the fixed-point calculation logic can be salvaged?
15:01:54 <frosch123> yes, it contained a lot of template mess, which could be done a lot simpler.
15:03:13 <frosch123> i once wrote some fixedpoint stuff to simplify tgp, but it did not really simplify it :p
15:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, TGP is some isolated piece of code, probably not worth it, but what about stuff like acceleration logic?
15:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> or payments in values <1£
15:19:59 *** Chillosophy has joined #openttd
15:22:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: problem is that all those unit conversions are scattered over the code. and inbetween fractional units are passed as integers though generic interfaces (e.g. SetDParam) and reinterpreted fractional on the other again. while this works fine, it makes implicit conversions integer -> fractional impossible
15:26:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:27:13 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
15:34:41 <OwenS> Speaking of fractional, does OpenTTD use floating point anywhere?
15:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> not in 99% of the code
15:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> multiplayer can't use floating point
15:36:13 <Ammler> seems to be a glitch with company colors in RC1
15:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> rounding causes desyncs
15:36:36 <OwenS> Hmm... If you're thinking about fixed point, I could cook a very handy template classes :)
15:37:24 <OwenS> (Considering theres an awful lot of useful math functions that would be needed)
15:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> we could use a library for algebraic numbers ;)
15:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> since these are countable, they can be represented without approximation ;)
15:45:45 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
15:45:58 <frosch123> [17:37] <OwenS> (Considering theres an awful lot of useful math functions that would be needed) <- hehe, but that is actually not the case. in most cases the fractional character of the fractional numbers does not matter
15:46:04 *** zodttd2 has joined #openttd
15:46:13 <frosch123> at least my approaches failed due to that
15:49:57 <OwenS> Its gotta be said though, fixed point is possible in C++. It's absolutely horrid in C :p
15:58:04 <frosch123> sure, you can write a nice template, which deals with multiplication, division, addition, assigning, comparison etc. with mixed size fixed point numbers. and i am sure it will look splendid. just, such stuff is not used/needed anywhere in ottd :p
16:02:52 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
16:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah the "problem" is that most operations are just trivially the same as integer operations
16:04:49 <OwenS> Multiplication and division are not, for example
16:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> fixed*integer is the same
16:05:26 <OwenS> Sure, but fixed*fixed is not
16:05:36 <OwenS> They also end up being an area where you end up grumbling, because the compiler generates stupid code
16:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but like frosch123 said, fixed*fixed is used nowhere...
16:06:48 <OwenS> ("Lets promote this integer to 64-bits, promote the other one, push them both onto the stack, call the 64-bit multiplication support routine, push the result onto the stack, push a shift factor, call the 64-bit shift support routine")
16:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to tell us here
16:08:53 <OwenS> Nothing. I'm just venting my frustrations at idiot compilers :p
16:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> of course multiplying two 32bit integers is going to result in a 64 bit integer
16:10:02 <OwenS> Thing is, rather than doing a 32x32->64 mul, the compiler does a 64x64->64 operation via the support library...
16:12:00 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
16:42:46 *** zodttd2 is now known as zodttd
16:44:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:44:53 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
17:00:43 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
17:13:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19671 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp gfx.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Fix (r19670): RoundDiv() needs to deal with signed numerators.
17:32:12 <Rhamphoryncus> Mmmm fixed point
17:32:18 <Rhamphoryncus> (hey look, I can talk!)
17:38:33 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19672 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnau
17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by Harlequin
17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
17:45:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: latvian - 30 changes by nobody
17:46:45 *** lewymati has joined #openttd
18:02:24 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
18:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> was there ever a coop game with PBI?
18:24:25 <frosch123> hmm, should there really be one line per articulated vehicle in roadvehicle details?
18:24:58 <frosch123> (for trains the cargo is summed up per wagon)
18:25:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, there were
18:26:07 <planetmaker> I recall due to stockpile limits supplying to stations which were WAY out of the coverage area
18:26:17 <planetmaker> or something along those lines
18:26:32 <planetmaker> We managed to fill the stockpiles of at least 7 sawmills.
18:26:49 <planetmaker> And then further couldn't be builded due to building restrictions
18:26:57 <planetmaker> but don't ask me for the game number ;-)
18:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the "interesting" part is not filling the stockpiles, but having the right balance e.g. with steel mills
18:28:24 <planetmaker> well. But what to do with all the wood then?
18:28:31 <planetmaker> steel mill doesn't want it ;-)
18:29:21 <planetmaker> at least that game was an exercise in the rules how cargo is distributed and accepted and delivered within openttd
18:29:45 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
18:32:05 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: just force trains to unload
18:32:16 <Ammler> and use another order to load excess goods
18:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i once did that with coal, and delivered the excess coal to a power station
18:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to play through a game with cargodist and PBI...
18:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i start, i get side tracked, and then cargodist is out of date, and not savegame compatible...
18:35:20 <SpComb> such is life without savegame compat
18:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really the biggest drawback of cargodist
18:35:53 <SpComb> my current game is r18870...
18:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i want the miniin back :(
18:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> by special macros
18:36:28 <SpComb> I heard some magical rumours about them having rolling backwards compat
18:36:40 <Rubidium> they weren't that special
18:36:56 <Rubidium> and yes, they generally only supported the last 2-3 MiniIN savegame versions
18:37:20 <SpComb> that's the "magic" that I use
18:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was basically "INTRODUCE_VERSION=max(PATCH_INTRODUCE_VERSION,CURRENT_TRUNK_VERSION+1)"
18:37:36 <SpComb> and then ` 52 extern const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = (SLV_NEXT - 1);`
18:37:44 <Rubidium> so if you needed more than those 2-3 savegame versions you had to download some intermediate version
18:37:48 <elmz_> lol, people are gullible ^^ I just killed 1800 passengers in a train crash, one large advertising campaign and they love me again ^^
18:38:26 <Alberth> you murdered the entire town :p
18:38:42 <Peping> we should add something like people's trust to the company
18:38:54 <SpComb> (lightly adapted from what cargodist has)
18:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but "SL_TRUNK+x" doesn't work properly if there's a trunk version bump
18:42:32 <Rubidium> yeah, that savegame stuff doesn't look like it'll do the right thing
18:43:01 <Rubidium> because you don't "sacrifice" older savegame versions
18:44:16 <elmz_> Alberth: yes I did, and £45000 was all it took to make up for it ^^
18:45:26 <elmz_> 0.04% of my company value ^^
18:54:36 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: define properly
18:54:55 <SpComb> there's no mention of compat across patched versions
18:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: if you merge a trunk version bump, you move all patch introduction versions, instead of throwing away the last one
18:55:46 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: hence the whole construction is senseless, you can set all values to "trunk+1"
18:57:35 <SpComb> it's mainly to make merges easier, less fooling around in settings.h and saveload.c
18:59:01 <SpComb> the only thing it provides is loading of trunk savegames
18:59:18 <Rubidium> savegame compatability and easier merges are mutually exclusive :)
19:01:32 <OwenS> Hey... What does rebuilding roads do to tiles with road and tram lines? Ignore them?
19:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it blocks them, why?
19:02:50 <OwenS> Wondering if it affected tram networks too :p
19:02:59 <fonsinchen> Indeed the system I have in place makes merging easier
19:03:18 <fonsinchen> But it makes savegame compatibility between different versions of cargodist harder
19:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: actually it shouldn't, it just needs to be done once
19:04:08 <fonsinchen> I haven't quite understood the miniin system yet
19:04:46 <fonsinchen> I remember I gave it a look once and thought "I my god, I'll be fiddling with those savegame versions for the rest of my life when I start that"
19:04:58 <fonsinchen> but I don't remember the details.
19:05:15 <OwenS> fonsinchen: At least you can use OpenTTD's SL version handling to help out
19:05:29 <fonsinchen> How do you mean that?
19:05:40 <OwenS> Progsigs has to deal with a binary blob :p
19:06:24 <fonsinchen> The only thing I do is define SL versions ahead of trunk to make loading trunk savegames possible.
19:07:01 <OwenS> Yeah, my issue is that none of the save game version helpers are available because they can't work with variable sized chunks
19:07:40 <fonsinchen> What exactly are you trying to do?
19:08:11 <OwenS> Save signal programs. Instructions have different sizes, so I don't know the size until Ive built the data
19:08:20 <OwenS> So I end up with a custom binary blob in the middle of the save file
19:08:53 <fonsinchen> and how is that related to cargodist?
19:09:05 <OwenS> Its related to save game versioning
19:09:18 <OwenS> Cargodist may have it difficult... Progsigs has it worse
19:10:00 <OwenS> I should probably investigate implementing an SlWriteBytes
19:22:11 *** JVassie_ has joined #openttd
19:22:32 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
19:25:29 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
19:46:18 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
20:09:20 *** Arthur_ has joined #openttd
20:11:21 * andythenorth goes for an adventure in the world of LEDs
20:14:58 <planetmaker> hi Arthur_ the other one ;-)
20:15:57 <Arthur_> is a team member online?^^
20:18:11 <Alberth> oh, you mean a dev? there are several online
20:18:40 <Alberth> (you could also mean a team member of a team of one of the MP servers)
20:18:56 <Arthur_> First thanks, the game is very good i love it, but will be come a version with better graphics, i mean i like the original grafiks, but it gives more opportunities now ?
20:19:45 <Arthur_> i saw the 32bbp version but it doesnt goes and i didnt think its aktually oR^^?
20:19:48 <Alberth> Well, I did only a *very* small part of the development ;)
20:20:15 <Alberth> I don't understand your other question
20:20:30 <Alberth> what is "more opportunities" ?
20:21:14 <Alberth> as for 32bpp, OpenTTD supports it, there are just a lot of graphics missing.
20:21:15 <Arthur_> i mean 2010 you can make bigger sprites and it gives blender, so i think its possible to make better graphict
20:21:51 <Arthur_> but i get a errow after installing from 32bbp :(
20:22:23 <Alberth> oh, yes that would be possible, as long as you stick to the 2D isometric view
20:23:34 <Alberth> I never tried 32bpp. There are some wiki pages about it, but that is all I know
20:23:57 * andythenorth never tried 32bpp
20:23:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19673 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp:
20:23:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Optimize calculation of graph grid size (method by Alberth).
20:23:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix: Remove a gcc 3.3 warning.
20:24:33 <Alberth> There may also be a forum about 32bpp development.
20:24:57 <Terkhen> I tried it once, it was impossible to get all sprites without checking a lot of threads :/
20:24:58 <Arthur_> yes but all english its so hart to read that all
20:25:59 <Alberth> practice makes perfect
20:26:43 <Alberth> there is not much I can do about that, I am afraid.
20:27:19 <Arthur_> is the 32bbp version actually?
20:27:55 <Alberth> but you are not the only person having trouble with english. Just join the crowd ?
20:28:08 <Alberth> don't exactly understand that question
20:29:37 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
20:29:48 <Arthur_> Open TTD is now version 1.0.1 RC or something, i mean is the 32bbp version too?
20:30:34 <Alberth> 32bpp graphics packs don't even exist as a complete release as far as I know
20:31:32 <Arthur_> yes but it has a own .exe file
20:32:20 <Alberth> it is just a (set of?) data files that you put in some data directory, just like OpenGFX
20:32:43 <Arthur_> nono it has h exe-file
20:32:44 <Alberth> and you must configure somewhere that you want to use 32bpp I think.
20:32:58 <Alberth> oh? that's new for me.
20:33:20 <planetmaker> Alberth: the 32bpp blitter, is it needed for 32bpp?
20:33:43 <Alberth> planetmaker: I don't think a 8bpp blitter will work :)
20:33:58 <planetmaker> Alberth: then it needs indeed changing the cfg from the default value
20:34:19 <planetmaker> or is 32bpp default? I don't think (except OSX)
20:35:17 <planetmaker> Arthur_: there's indeed some separate binaries for a patched "extra zoom levels" patch.
20:35:20 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
20:35:25 <planetmaker> Many of the 32bpp people make graphics for that
20:35:42 <planetmaker> But 32bpp is not necessarily tied to the extra zoom levels.
20:36:45 <Arthur_> aso, becouse i am a graphic artist too, i wont help but first i will try and it doesnt goes
20:37:42 <Arthur_> oh i start it and in bugreport stand:
20:37:48 <Arthur_> Blitter: 8bpp-optimized
20:37:50 <Arthur_> Graphics set: original_windows
20:38:24 <Arthur_> the blitter is still 8bpp -.-
20:38:49 <Arthur_> but can this maces the crash?
20:40:01 <planetmaker> Blitter: 32bpp-anim
20:40:20 <planetmaker> You'll need - afaik - the alternative graphics set for the 32bpp extensio to work
20:40:27 <planetmaker> Arthur_: edit your cfg with a text editor
20:40:49 <planetmaker> the required graphics base set can be downloaded from ingame
20:41:11 <planetmaker> and selected in the same screen where you chose... German ;-)
20:41:51 <planetmaker> C:\Documente und Einstellungen\Arthur\Eigene Dateien\ØpenTTD oder so ähnlich.
20:42:05 <planetmaker> err... English only ;-)
20:42:44 <planetmaker> :-) Double key. I don't know which ;-)
20:43:27 <planetmaker> looks nice, though ;-)
20:58:18 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
21:02:42 <Arthur_> i got this crush and i dont know why
21:07:49 <SmatZ> Arthur_: you compiled it yourself, right?
21:08:18 <SmatZ> did you include any patches?
21:08:24 <Arthur_> i mean crash^^ no i didnt i have download it
21:08:33 <Arthur_> +its the 32bpp versin
21:08:43 <SmatZ> hmm it's not official, you know
21:08:49 <SmatZ> report it to the tt-forums thread
21:09:02 * SpComb idly wonders why the 32bpp builds have such a version info
21:10:30 <Arthur_> from there i downloadet
21:12:08 <planetmaker> I don't attribute the best skills to the author of the posting you pointed to ;-)
21:19:47 <planetmaker> :-) I very much chuckled at your answer there
21:21:17 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
21:30:11 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
21:42:44 *** devilsadvocate has quit IRC
21:47:07 *** devilsadvocate has joined #openttd
21:55:16 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
21:55:30 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
22:01:15 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
22:02:28 <Phurl> OpenTTD is an Open Source clone of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
22:03:08 <Phurl> i would like to know if it would be possible to add in an import of openstreetmap for simulationg of a real ciry
22:03:15 <Phurl> i have been working on a blender import
22:03:20 <planetmaker> sure it's possible.
22:03:26 <planetmaker> but who does the work?
22:03:32 <Phurl> well i have started on blender
22:03:47 <devilsadvocate> how on blender?
22:03:50 <planetmaker> and what do you want to import?
22:04:57 <Phurl> at some scale that they are recognisable
22:05:10 * devilsadvocate still does not get what you want to import to/from blender
22:05:40 <devilsadvocate> Phurl, afaik blender is used to create individual tiles
22:05:51 <devilsadvocate> maps are different
22:43:35 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
23:23:31 *** ptr is now known as Guest449
continue to next day ⏵