IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-04-11
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00:03:42 <fjb> I never needed that "build while paused" feature. But which AI gives you that problems?
00:15:05 <NCommander> fjb: PassAI I think, although I'm still a newbie :-/
00:20:43 <NCommander> I think I want to have a main line with many industries, with both termius (with pass through lanes), but I'm not quite sure how to build it :-/
00:21:28 <Brianetta> I find that the mouse is a good start...
00:23:21 <NCommander> Brianetta: heh ;-)
00:32:17 <fjb> Start easy. Look for a coal mine a power station or steel mill. Extend your network from that.
00:42:56 <NCommander> fjb: right, I got that part, but I have issues when I want to have trains then go from the steel mill to say a factory, and it needs to pass back along the same track
00:44:56 <NCommander> fjb: I guess my problem is I have issues figuring out how to smartly/sanly build stations, I think I need to build a junction on each one that will be a terminus in its own right (at least right now)
00:46:02 <fjb> Build not too complicated while you are a newbie. You will learn the complicated things over time.
00:46:11 <NCommander> The other thing I'm not sure about is it better to have one train dedicated to taking iron ore to a steel mill, then another take it from said mill to the factory, OR have two trains do all three, and half part of their cars empty
00:46:23 <NCommander> fjb: right, sorry. I greatly enjoy this game, I just don't want to suck at it ;-)
00:47:28 <fjb> One (or more) train(s) bring or from the mine to the steel mill. Other trains bring the steel from the mill to the factory.
00:48:04 <fjb> You suck if you start too complicated without knowing what you are doing.
00:49:25 <fjb> That is the best way to learn. If you fail start over again and make it better. You learn from every station and every line you build. And everybody has to find his own building style.
01:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ... this damn forum did it again...
01:00:50 <PeterT> As it does every night.
01:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't it do that at like 7 AM, when literally nobody is accessing the forum?
01:07:43 <PeterT> 7AM in Europe, and 2 AM in the states
01:07:55 <PeterT> But I check the forums when I get up
01:09:26 <fjb> It's like demanding no porn on the internet before midnight.
01:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: the ttd community is 90% european
01:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and european bandwidth usage is lowest around 6-7 AM
01:11:22 <fjb> You should respect minorities.
01:23:00 <NCommander> fjb: I think i finally had my first successful network :-)
01:23:54 <fjb> Good. The next one gets better. One step after the other.
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01:58:33 <yuriks_> can the overtaking stuff be done in new versions?
01:58:42 <yuriks_> I'm trying to do something like that but it's not working
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02:20:57 <yuriks> how are your trains going? XD
02:21:30 <NCommander> yuriks: arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -fmessage-length=0 -c -fno-omit-frame-pointer -Os -fno-strict-aliasing -DENABLE_LAYOUT_EXPERIMENTAL=0 -fno-stack-protector -I. -I../unxlngr.pro/inc/make_makedepend -I../inc -I../inc/pch -I../inc -I../unx/inc -I../unxlngr.pro/inc -I. -I/home/mcasadevall/src/ooo/current/openoffice.org-3.2.0/ooo-build-3-2-0-7/build/OOO320_m12/solver/320/unxlngr.pro/incdont_use_stl -I/home/mcasadevall/src/ooo/curre
02:23:31 <yuriks> NCommander: nice, that looks organized
02:23:51 <NCommander> there are some places where I could have done better but this is my first network railroad :-)
02:24:51 <NCommander> yuriks: I'm using timetables so I don't get a late delay but my trains aren't running empty
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02:27:14 <yuriks> right now I'm trying to make my railroad overtake-capable, but I'm failing hard =P
02:29:46 <yuriks> like, I have this long ass straigh track (two way)
02:29:56 <yuriks> but sometimes slower trains get in front of faster trains
02:30:01 <yuriks> slowing them down a lot
02:30:14 <yuriks> so I'm trying to make it so that the trains can overtake them using the other track if it's free
02:30:47 <NCommander> yuriks: isn't that just a matter of using one way path signals?
02:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yuriks: no, the overtaking support has never been implemented
02:34:33 <NCommander> yuriks: interested in any online play?
02:34:50 <yuriks> Eddi|zuHause: what do you suggest instead? making another track outwards for overtaking?
02:34:55 <yuriks> or does not even that work?
02:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yuriks: 3 tracks work rather well... two single direction ones on the outside, and a bidirectional one in the middle
02:35:44 <yuriks> NCommander: maybe, I want to keep my lovely train network though xD
02:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure the middle sections are long enough
02:35:54 <yuriks> Eddi|zuHause: hmmm, that's a good idea
02:36:01 <NCommander> yuriks: heh, how long have you been playing OpenTTD?
02:36:15 <yuriks> NCommander: since the start of the week, I guess?
02:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yuriks: www.informatik.uni-halle.de
02:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yuriks: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png
02:38:49 <yuriks> the signaling interval looks kinda long though
02:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't work when they are too short
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02:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> trains will end up standing opposite of each other most of the time
02:41:03 <yuriks> hmm, I'll definitly try that
02:41:49 <NCommander> yuriks: if you post a screen shot, I might be able ot help, I got my first overtake (around a station though) to work
02:43:30 <piro> So what do you do if you've made a train system that delivers mail between two cities, and then one city stops accepting mail, and the other city gets really mad?
02:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> piro: fund new buildings
02:44:11 <yuriks> ignore the fact that they are all runnin the same way
02:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or try to extend the catchment area
02:44:18 <yuriks> that's because I just messed up the signaling
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02:48:27 <piro> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure I follow you
02:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause> piro: each station has a catchment area around it. the more houses it covers, the more likely it accepts mail
02:49:29 <piro> Eddi|zuHause: So how do you extend the area?
02:49:43 <piro> Oh right. Build bigger stations
02:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> by adding more parts to the station
02:51:02 <piro> Crap. I can't extend it in any direction that will make it closer to the city. It needs to be extended perpendicular to the way it already sits
02:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you can add e.g. a roadstop to the station by holding ctrl while placing it
02:56:22 <piro> You mean a truck station?
02:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, for example. but a bus station would do the trick as well
02:59:00 <piro> Huh. That's really odd. You can join a train station with a truck station, and magically the train station accepts mail too O_o
02:59:10 <piro> And you can put the truck station in the middle of the city
03:00:00 <yuriks> it's pretty annoying how you can't demolish only parts of a station though
03:04:42 <yuriks> when I try to dynamite part of it it blows up the entire thing
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03:12:07 <NCommander> trucks can *really* make an effective passenger feeder service
03:12:39 <yuriks> human rights would like to have a word with you ;P
04:10:12 <NCommander> yuriks: er, passenger buses :-)
04:10:40 <NCommander> yuriks: but if you make a lot of transfers, you can make your planes make an ASSTON with each trip. I have train runs also getting up words of 20,000 pounds per trip
04:22:07 <yuriks> oh, I have some making about that, too
04:22:16 <yuriks> they travel very far though
04:22:21 <yuriks> so it probably balances out for me =P
04:29:05 <mrruben5> for train length of 6 (TL3), how long should a prio be?
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04:35:02 <SekiSelu> glx: Using the bulldozer works, but it's annoying that it leaves the track behind
04:42:20 <yuriks> SekiSelu: meh, it's easy enough to remove the track
04:42:57 <SekiSelu> I'd guess that more often than not you mean to remove the track as well, and it's easy enough to replace it too :)
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05:38:52 <NCommander> yuriks: its a bad sign that I can't spend money fast enough (I think I have bad macromanagement)
05:39:07 <yuriks> NCommander: I have about 10kk and I have no idea what to do with it =P
05:39:19 <NCommander> yuriks: I have 3 million
05:40:25 <yuriks> (though I'm not playing atm)
05:44:07 * NCommander built his first ship yard
05:44:21 <yuriks> I only did truck and local buses
05:44:33 <yuriks> most of the fun in the game if building the railroads
05:48:21 <NCommander> I think I need to learn how to get every train to work with it set "wait for full load"
05:50:38 <NCommander> but that was interesting
05:50:45 * NCommander needs to really learn to make his RR run more smoothly
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05:57:22 <yuriks> NCommander: just, don't have too many trains, or if you do, have wide stations
05:57:35 <NCommander> yuriks: well, I didn't start with a lot ;-)
05:57:51 <yuriks> and if even that's not enough, have a decent waiting area
06:09:42 <NCommander> yuriks: I guess the other question is how do I make cities grow?
06:10:09 <yuriks> NCommander: stick buses and passenger services there
06:10:23 <yuriks> if they're on the desert you also need food and water
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07:05:41 <terinjokes> TrueBrain: I told you that if/when I was back on OSX I would look at some OSX issues... here I am
07:11:12 <planetmaker> [09:08] <NCommander> [06:10:40] yuriks: but if you make a lot of transfers, you can make your planes make an ASSTON with each trip. I have train runs also getting up words of 20,000 pounds per trip <-- you should try longer distances
07:11:41 <planetmaker> it's easy to make an income of ~300000 per round-trip
07:12:26 <planetmaker> but it depends upon train length
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07:13:41 <nighthawkcm> and speed - even a long coal train with a early steasm engine has a hard time making that much due to the extreme travel time
07:18:27 <planetmaker> I was thinking of a ~12 tile ICE train
07:18:57 <planetmaker> for inter-city passenger service which always finds sufficient passengers to unload and load fully without additional waiting time
07:19:58 <planetmaker> but in my last game I introduced some AsiaStars which made an annual income of ~600000 which were only 5 tiles long (so 8 wagons)
07:20:05 <nighthawkcm> Hmm.. I make 400k with each goods train, but that demands a running network - 5 TL
07:20:21 <planetmaker> sounds aboug a decent one :-)
07:20:55 <planetmaker> of course good income requires good networks without much of a jam
07:25:19 <nighthawkcm> no jamming at all at the moment
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08:18:25 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: well, you can imporve the speed to an extent by doubleheading it
08:19:47 <nighthawkcm> not the speed, it improves acceleration and changes the math how many tiles you climb without loosing speed.
08:20:23 <nighthawkcm> the acceleration is important in tightly packed networks with many trains, every single one needs to go as fast to top speed as possible
08:20:31 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: this game is really addictive, I don't remember the last time I played a game all night (I think Starcraft or Rollercoast Tycoon was the last one)
08:20:46 <NCommander> and SimCity 2000 or maybe 3 was the last playable one IMHO
08:21:20 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: yeah, I started running into that problem. My last game was my first successful network design.
08:21:46 * NCommander experimented with stations that can only be approached in one direct off the mainline, large junctions, transfers, etc.
08:22:12 <nighthawkcm> but if a loco has a max speed of 100 km/h you can't make it go faster by using a second one
08:22:18 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: pity :-/
08:22:35 <peter1138> planetmaker, drawback, not "backdraw" :p
08:22:37 * NCommander wonders if its cheating to use realworld acceleration since I don't level out the hills
08:22:43 <nighthawkcm> hehe - the faster a train is, the bigger the curves have to be so it won't slow down on the ML or SL
08:23:09 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: true, but I found I didn't have that issue at all except when a train did a u-turn
08:23:16 <nighthawkcm> well, a train with two locos can usually take on 2 tiles of climbing or more
08:23:37 <nighthawkcm> depending on the max speed of your trains
08:24:49 <planetmaker> nighthawkcm: that depends heavily upon the engine power and more heavily upon the acceleration model
08:24:57 <planetmaker> and also on the selected steepness of slopes
08:25:05 <planetmaker> and the cargo weight factor
08:27:00 <nighthawkcm> well I play with the standard setup, not changing it
08:27:28 * NCommander is interested in doing some online play but kinda afraid of sucking too much
08:31:41 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: this might be the wrong answer, but you might be able to have the exits become steps and then more graduly have them merge together instead of having on running track sloping across all exits
08:32:37 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: basically, have the top three tracks merge into one, and extend then the tracks in parallel having them merge down into one after some distance so the trains space themselves out
08:34:00 <nighthawkcm> hmm.... that could work .... gonna save and try that.
08:34:53 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: I'm not speaking from experience of any sort; the factory is unfourtnately in a losely position :-/
08:34:56 <nighthawkcm> how long would the extensions need to be?
08:35:43 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: averange train length would probably work best
08:35:51 <NCommander> ---------------------
08:35:53 <NCommander> ----------------------------
08:35:55 <NCommander> --------------------------------------------
08:36:22 <NCommander> (you can't do anyhting to improve the top three tracks, so that's always going to be a bottle neck unless you build tunnels over the factory
08:37:28 <NCommander> If nothing else, more trains will move out of the station and into the exit lanes
08:37:55 <nighthawkcm> well, the problemn with making it longer comes shortly after the station, I'll give a bigger screenie so you see ...
08:39:45 <nighthawkcm> here we go, the stations in the lower right corner, and on the left you see the insertion into the LL5RR ML
08:40:57 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: you seem to have plenty of room, I'm not sure I see the issue
08:43:13 <nighthawkcm> I get too close to the first insertion into the ML - slowing down trains with 2 turns
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08:44:25 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: ugh, that's nasty since small step changes will be enough to upset the max speed
08:46:36 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: may then instead of a bunch of steps, you'll have to make do with 2, the one created by the lines blocked by the factory, and another for everything else; it should still be an imporvement
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08:49:03 <NCommander> If nothing else, more trains will move out of the station and into the exit lanes
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09:02:50 <nighthawkcm> The solution came out different and I am still not happy with the trains behaviour - I dislike the patchoices by them but oh well ...
09:04:49 <nighthawkcm> still trains seem to have a special like/dislike for certain ML's
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09:22:35 <nighthawkcm> :-/ SLH 1 reaches capacity limit .... now how to upgrade a SLH and a ML there ... dammit
09:23:47 <nighthawkcm> anyone got an image of a LLL5RRR to a SL LL_RR hub?
09:26:38 <NCommander> nighthawkcm: that seems to work well, I assume exit performance is better?
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09:27:15 * NCommander is thinking that he needs to build very large transfer stations with smaller feeder stations connecting off that one
09:27:51 <nighthawkcm> yes, works better, but I start to have jams on the ML at SLH 1 - the inner L ML jams
09:28:59 * NCommander has no clue how to properly build that
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09:50:55 <andythenorth> Terkhen: would you like a new adventure in C++?
09:50:58 <andythenorth> HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud
09:55:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19601 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp network/network.cpp): -Fix: make the desync replay parse the "whole" string instead of everything up to the first space; make it log the sync state too
09:55:26 <Terkhen> I'm already living a "great adventure" with C right now
09:55:48 <Terkhen> what do you plan, smoke for RVs and ships?
09:59:42 <fonsinchen> If I split an inlined method in declaration and definition, will the compiler still inline it?
10:00:16 <fonsinchen> I'm surprised this is actually valid C++ ... :)
10:00:42 <andythenorth> Terkhen: yes, smoke for RVs and ships. I started trying to figure out how to make HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud generic, but it's way beyond me right now :o
10:04:10 <Terkhen> to be really generic it should be defined at the vehicle class and called at some of its methods (something similar to how realistic acceleration works at GroundVehicle)
10:04:30 <andythenorth> probably a project for another day :)
10:05:02 <Terkhen> but first you should think about the problem of how to decide which RVs and ships use smoke and which ones doesn't... taking into account the current behaviour for trains too
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10:11:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19602 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add the name of the command to the desync logs
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10:57:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19603 /branches/1.0/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
10:57:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
10:57:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desync debugging; false positives in the cache validity checks and saving/loading the command stream (r19601, r19600, r19596, r19593, r19592, r19589, r19587, r19586)
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11:22:17 <peter1138> hmm, how does the scenario list work?
11:22:49 <peter1138> it says it is in ~/.openttd/scenario/ but it is showing stuff from ~/.openttd/content_download/scenario/
11:23:44 <Rubidium> in the "default" path it'll show the downloaded stuff too
11:29:04 <Rubidium> seems SpComb just volunteered coding a non-hack
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11:38:41 <mrruben5> Hmm, I was wondering
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11:40:00 <mrruben5> If I have a drop roro and a pickup roro, both with the same overflow, can I give trains that want to unload stuff in the drop ror prio over trains that want to load stuff?
11:40:23 <mrruben5> or do I need to make a second overflow?
11:42:30 <NCommander> The AIs out pace me, and then out price me
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12:03:42 <fjb> mrruben5: Make a second overflow or try a second path from the overflow to the station and use way points to divide the trains.
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12:54:37 <jess-tundra-sundra> hello. Is there a way to fusion to companies when playing multiplayer? Two humans who want to fusion their companies.
12:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> only when one goes bankrupt, i believe
12:56:14 <Yexo> stop all vehicles, give all your money to the other company and wait for a year
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13:12:32 <jess-tundra-sundra> ok, but that strategy doesn't seem to be very good if I'm in av multiplayer game with many players. Maybe some other player buys the company :/
13:18:08 <De_Ghosty> there is no merger :o
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13:23:01 <jess-tundra-sundra> too bad :)
13:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with using the single-player-method to join companies is that they are only hostile takeovers, the buyer decides he wants the company, the buyee has no option...
13:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it isn't allowed in multiplayer
13:30:08 <jess-tundra-sundra> It would be nice to have to possibility to merge two companies if both parties accepted.
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14:16:29 * Mazur is making a set of 12 arrows in 6 colours for addition to example layouts to help identify the various signals.
14:20:17 <DJNekkid> is it possible to use the cheats on a dedicated server?
14:20:43 <frosch123> everyone will desync, but after rejoin it should be fine
14:21:00 <DJNekkid> im gonna start a server
14:21:04 <DJNekkid> and i want to cheat some money :)
14:24:33 <welshdragon> is2.1.1 crashes on my windows
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14:54:08 <__ln__> it is too early to say
14:54:42 <SpComb> copied trunk files over?
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14:57:59 <SpComb> you shouldn't need to copy anything over to play a build that's a proper bundle
14:58:22 <SpComb> make sure you have the base graphics files available in the correct global location, then just unzip and run the .exe
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15:02:17 <Yexo> if you copied trunk files over that might be the problem, it's a very old build and at that time a base sound set without files (nosound) wasn't supported
15:02:22 <Yexo> now nosound it part of trunk
15:02:49 <Yexo> so if you copied nosound from current trunk to that old build it will indeed crash
15:04:49 <welshdragon> i told it not to replace the file
15:05:56 <Yexo> maybe it finds nosound in your downloaded content?
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15:12:06 <tinyboss> Is this the right place to ask newbie questions? Why can't I build any more small airports after a certain (early) point in my game?
15:12:36 <frosch123> go to advanced settings, and enable "keep small airport"
15:13:09 <__ln__> that doesn't answer the 'why'.
15:13:50 <tinyboss> Ahh, so that's what "Airports never expire" does. __ln__, that's true, but frosch123 looked through my bad wording to figure out what I really wanted. Though I'm a bit curious about the reasoning, too.
15:14:19 <frosch123> oh, because the small airport construction uses asbestos, which is no longer allowed
15:15:19 <tinyboss> Haha. :-) By the way, this game is fantastic. I love sandbox games with real complexity. There aren't enough of them.
15:44:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19604 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Codechange: Reintroduce assert_tcompile().
15:44:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19605 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Merge ExtractBits into EnumPropsT.
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16:37:01 <Opensourcler> Is one of the developers here?
16:38:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19606 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove global variable pw_type
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16:40:11 <Opensourcler> SmatZ, I've a complex question about your project.
16:41:12 <Opensourcler> IT's opensource and that means, that I can put it on my website for download (togehter with the sourcecode) with a hint to the gnu-license, right?
16:41:53 <SmatZ> Opensourcler: I am not a licence expert, but I think you can
16:41:59 <frosch123> best is to use the unmodified bundle, it has everything it needs
16:42:05 <TrueBrain> depend how you define 'hint'
16:42:05 <Yexo> question is: why would you want to offer it on your website if you haven't made any modifications? if you link to openttd.org you can make suer your users alwyas have the latest version
16:42:25 <SmatZ> if you leave the package as it is, it contains readme and copying information
16:43:58 <Opensourcler> "Hint" means, that the text says, taht this project is under the gnu-licens. gnu-would be a link and if you click it, you would read the license information.
16:44:25 <Yexo> the licence is called gpl, not gnu
16:44:33 <Yexo> and you'd probably have to mention the version too (2)
16:45:09 <Opensourcler> Yexo, I want to put it on my website for the germans. Your site is only english and mybe this project will be more known.
16:45:27 <Ammler> Opensourcler: simply link to openttd.org, your visitors will be thankful to download recent versions.
16:45:35 <TrueBrain> then the least you can do is link to OpenTTD.org, not only the GPL
16:46:11 <SpComb> openttd.org doesn't have multiple language versions?
16:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or SOMEONE could finally implement the website translations :p
16:46:32 <SpComb> or it has the URLs for them, but no translated content
16:46:32 <TrueBrain> it does in its core, just never translated and added, as we could never figure out how to represent the languages
16:46:38 <TrueBrain> (someone was very much against flags ....)
16:46:53 <SpComb> Accept-Language: or whatever it was
16:47:52 <Rubidium> just leave out the /de/ or /en/. That works equally well
16:47:53 <Yexo> in that case just link to
16:48:13 <TrueBrain> when multi-language would be enabled, the last url auto redirects to the right language
16:48:17 <Opensourcler> thx all for your help.
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16:49:54 <Plimmer> I was just on a multiplayer server that had an addon called city-builder. That seemed like alot of fun, and I would like to host such a server myself for me and a couple of friends to have a game on.
16:50:16 <Plimmer> I have been browsing the forums for instructions on how to do this, but I cant seem to find the right post/thread about it.
16:50:24 <Plimmer> Can someone push me in the right direction?
16:51:39 <Yexo> first result when googling for "openttd city-builder"
16:51:41 <Rubidium> oh, the "I'm amazed it actually works" patch?
16:51:53 <Plimmer> I read that post, but it dosent mention anything about version 1.0
16:52:01 <Plimmer> And I would like to play 1.0
16:52:23 <Rubidium> they haven't updated it yet
16:53:00 <Plimmer> Hrmm.. I played with my 1.0 client in a game where it was enabled
16:53:17 <Plimmer> I guess that group of people havent released their internal version then
16:53:26 <Rubidium> then someone has a patch "updated" locally and not released that
16:53:46 <Plimmer> Yeah.. Well, thats too bad. Seemed like alot of fun.
16:54:36 <Plimmer> Is there some other patches that are worth mentioning?
16:54:45 <frosch123> some of the goalserver guys are a bit vain and hardly release what they modified, as they cannot stand others hosting a similiar server and "stealing" their players
16:56:09 <frosch123> at least i got that impression :)
16:56:27 * Rubidium definitely got that impression too
17:17:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19607 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use different packet types instead of packet subtypes
17:23:22 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19608 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: do not kick client if he entered password and the password was cleared meanwhile
17:25:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19609 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix: do not print 'Connection lost' message for clients who failed to enter correct password
17:32:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19610 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp_game.h network.cpp network_server.cpp): -Codechange: rename STATUS_AUTH to STATUS_AUTHORIZED
17:45:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19611 /trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt:
17:45:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: indonesian - 11 changes by fanioz
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17:52:21 <Rubidium> there's a randomisation in the introduction date of 18 months, so I guess the first maglev is introduced between late 2020 and early 2022
17:53:03 <Rubidium> toyland's maglev is designed in 2022 though
18:03:46 <saLOUt> Ammler: did you send the opensuse-games-openttd-rpm-builder the fix (missing obm files and missing ai folder)?
18:04:17 <Ammler> but the official guys don't ususally package on the weekends
18:04:57 <saLOUt> Ammler: he has sent me a mail before 4 hours, that he is awaiting your fix
18:06:18 <Ammler> he declined my first patch, because I didn't update the changelog ;-)
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18:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... what a stupid song...
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19:12:33 <Devedse> When you have 2 tracks of train rails and they need to fuse together to one, is it possible to have one line always let go first till there's for example no train on that line for 20 length?
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19:13:15 <planetmaker> Search the openttdcoop wiki for prio(rities)
19:13:29 <planetmaker> Using advanced signaling basically, abusing pre-signals
19:13:55 <planetmaker> We use it in every game ;-)
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19:15:41 <planetmaker> also our public server archive has countless examples on them :-)
19:16:04 <Phazorx> at least last 140 games :)
19:16:16 <Devedse> well, what is your public server :)
19:16:22 <Devedse> i will join it and find out ;P
19:18:53 <planetmaker> Devedse: join #openttdcoop
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19:19:22 <Devedse> for some reason my openttd wont get the serverlist ;(
19:19:40 <planetmaker> router, firewall, not both directions for both ports
19:20:14 <Devedse> restart fixes everything =3
19:28:24 <KenjiE20> lol, openttd on 1chan
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19:41:52 <planetmaker> I wonder why it fails for ALL three targets of the universal build...
19:46:38 <aber> what if you remove 2 targets?
19:46:57 <Devedse> lol i did something wrong prioritizing, now it takes even longer ;P
19:52:54 <Devedse> k something seems to work now :)
19:53:50 <planetmaker> aber: a universal build has (for OpenTTD) those three targets...
19:53:56 <planetmaker> otherwise it'd not be universal.
19:54:24 <planetmaker> also each fails separately at the same place... so... it must be something --enable-universal does.
19:55:08 <aber> right, there is a file... it contains the targets. If you delete 2 if them, you have universal without-universal
19:55:45 <planetmaker> from what I see, I'd just see it then fail once (for the remaining target) instead of three times, once for each target.
19:56:50 <aber> what do you compile? head?
20:02:43 <planetmaker> hm, let's see what --without-libtimidity gives us. Btw: --with-libtimidity is not mentioned in configure help :-)
20:07:20 <aber> my svn client is broken, my compiler is broken and the libraries i need are not universal.
20:08:16 <Jolteon> Sounds like a bad day for you.
20:08:56 <Devedse> planetmaker, i think i fixed prioritizing, im gonna see what happens ;)
20:09:10 <planetmaker> I compiled (nearly?) all my libraries at least as i386 / x64 yesterday
20:09:25 <planetmaker> I guess I need to teach them ppc, too
20:11:36 <planetmaker> ok, it's definitely libtimidity. --without-libtimidity gives the linker failure which I expected due to non-ppc libraries
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20:16:22 <amalloy> hi all, just started playing recently...is there a simple explanation for oil refineries in FIRS to accept oil but not send fuel or chemicals to the station?
20:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> did you send a vehicle to pick them up yet?
20:18:29 <planetmaker> refinery not properly covered? or ^
20:19:51 <amalloy> yes, i've sent a vehicle
20:20:12 <amalloy> and the refinery seems to be covered - it accepts the oil, and produces fuel, but transports 0% of it
20:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> is your vehicle refitted properly?
20:20:37 <amalloy> oh! that's probably it
20:20:42 <amalloy> thanks, i forgot to do that
20:21:14 * andythenorth thinks it would be useful to show current consist refit in more places (like the orders window)
20:21:21 <andythenorth> I have made the same mistake many many times
20:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... this sound file is badly encoded...
20:25:34 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
20:28:18 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have been thinking about that too... the problem is that trains can have wagons refitted to different cargos
20:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and they can be refitted by orders
20:32:52 * planetmaker considers the latter an especially interesting feature :-)
20:33:15 * planetmaker would even like a feature to swap wagons by setting appropriate orders
20:33:59 <planetmaker> like "get or buy 5 coal wagons and de-couple the 5 goods wagons"
20:34:26 <planetmaker> it's the player's problem, if too many wagons then accumulate in a certain depot ;-)
20:47:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: played railroad tycoon 2 or 3? 'wagons' don't really exist, you just get whatever consist you need at each station
20:47:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: nope, I haven't
20:48:05 <andythenorth> the approach makes a lot of sense in that game
20:48:14 <andythenorth> but maybe not in OTTD
20:50:20 <Phazorx> RT2/3 approach is more realistic but totally different concept
20:50:27 <Phazorx> at same time it makes sense
20:50:54 <Phazorx> concepts of route is attached to engine, while cars are under cargo
20:51:18 <Phazorx> so engine gets attached to what needs to be moved at station rather than waiting for cargo to be loaded
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20:52:31 <Phazorx> but RT is economic simulator while TTD is engineering modeling
20:53:09 <amalloy> i'm having different problems with my FIRS refinery now...when i drop off 270k liters of oil, it produces only 20k liters of chemicals and 29k liters of fuel oil. it should be much higher at 6t/8t, shouldn't it?
20:55:15 <amalloy> the result, of course, is that my chemical-carrying trains have a negative profit, and the plastics station turning chemical into goods produce like 5 crates of goods
20:56:04 <planetmaker> amalloy: they only produce that efficiently, if they probably also get engineering supplies at the refinery
20:56:30 <planetmaker> also it means - IIRC - that 8t input will produce 6t for both combined
20:57:04 <amalloy> really? why isn't the engineering-supplies bit mentioned on the industry screen like it is for coal mines?
20:59:47 <Terkhen> IIRC refineries don't accept engineering supplies
20:59:51 <andythenorth> the refinery just turns oil into fuel oil & chemicals
21:00:56 <amalloy> right, that's what i thought. so i don't see why it's producing so little
21:01:29 <andythenorth> amalloy: I'm checking the code now...
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21:02:35 <andythenorth> @calc 270 * (6/8)
21:02:56 <andythenorth> @calc 540 * (6/8)
21:03:30 <andythenorth> I get 89k fuel oil out for 540k oil in
21:03:58 <andythenorth> but my station rating is only 53%
21:04:20 <andythenorth> @calc (89/53) * 100
21:04:20 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 167.924528302
21:05:11 <andythenorth> there are occasional errors in FIRS industry production due to doing maths in hex
21:05:27 <andythenorth> but the oil refinery does seem to be losing cargo somewhere
21:05:44 <amalloy> yeah, i just looked at the source myself - it looks like a pain to work with
21:06:52 <andythenorth> industry production code took about 6 months to write so far :)
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21:10:27 <amalloy> i can believe it. at least i've found the refinery code now; i was trying to look at templates, cause i didn't think to look for code under sprites/
21:10:31 <andythenorth> amalloy: I won't be able to find the issue tonight. The 29k you got - is that at the station or in the industry window?
21:10:48 <andythenorth> what station rating do you have?
21:11:30 <amalloy> like...hrm, 30? i still don't really understand how to optimize for station rating
21:12:05 <amalloy> i'm not sure what the industry window says, because it usually goes back to 0 in a big hurry as the month ends
21:12:15 <andythenorth> @calc 135 * (6/8)
21:12:15 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 101.25
21:12:23 <SekiSelu> Question if someone could: Is there an explanation of how the stack interacts with String Codes somewhere? Trying to get industries to report "X tons of Y cargo delivered last month" but I can't find a reference on the ttdpatch wiki
21:13:18 <andythenorth> amalloy: I think the numbers you're seeing are due to the low station rating + the occasional rounding error due to not having proper maths available
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21:13:38 <andythenorth> SekiSelu: I could help you but not tonight - bed time. FIRS uses industry window string codes and the text stack extensively
21:14:00 <amalloy> okay. so i need...what, more trains at the station, to improve the rating, which will then increase output? i don't understand ratings yet
21:14:27 <SekiSelu> I've been reading through the FIRS code, and I now have a new text string for each industry, it just always reports 0t cargo
21:14:43 <SekiSelu> I'm not sure how to put t cargo delivered onto the stack so i can read it off
21:14:55 <andythenorth> store it into a register (100h-105h)
21:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> amalloy: you should try to have always a train waiting
21:15:31 <nighthawk_c_m> ammaloy: have a train waiting all the time - gives natuarally a rating of around 70%
21:16:12 <andythenorth> SekiSelu: look at the FIRS primary industry template
21:16:22 <SekiSelu> Durr. Must've missed that paragraph. Now I just need to figure out how to get that info into those registers ;)
21:16:27 <SekiSelu> Andy: Thanks, I'll do that
21:16:28 <andythenorth> template_primary_action23.pnfo
21:17:06 <amalloy> i see. i've been not bothering to increase #trains unless there's too much cargo there for my current trains to ship. but it sounds like adding more trains causes there to be more cargo?
21:18:03 <SekiSelu> Amalloy: Any time where a train is not at the station will reduce your station rating, meaning less cargo will be delivered. I try to always have 1 train actively loading at each station
21:18:17 <planetmaker> amalloy: use "full load"
21:18:31 <SekiSelu> And yes, always use full load :)
21:18:39 <amalloy> okay. i'll fire up a new game and try that out
21:19:42 <andythenorth> SekiSelu: to understand that template it will help you to know that callbacks run when cargo is delivered, and at the end of each month
21:19:59 <andythenorth> when the cargo is delivered, the amount is added to a value in persistent storage
21:20:09 <andythenorth> at the end of each month this value is zeroed
21:20:35 <andythenorth> you need pretty much the same thing, but copying the value to another persistent storage register before you zero it
21:21:00 <andythenorth> catch me another time if that makes no sense....I'm off :)
21:21:07 <SekiSelu> Thanks andy, and good night
21:21:12 <SekiSelu> Is it possible to emulate that without enabling the advanced production scheme...
21:21:26 <andythenorth> but I don't know tonight ;)
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21:21:27 <SekiSelu> That's the trick i'm trying to pull :)
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21:46:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19612 /trunk/src/saveload/waypoint_sl.cpp: -Fix [FS#3756] (r3212): crash when opening a savegame with a waypoint from around 0.4.0
21:47:02 <PeterT> who was savegames from 0.4.0? :-P
21:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't people have savegames from 0.4.0?
21:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have TTO savegames
21:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately not my very first game...
21:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> damn world editor update overwrote that with the autosave
21:54:09 <KenjiE20> I think I still have TTDLX saves that went to TTDP, and still load in OpenTTD :)
21:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't play TTD(P) very much
22:05:42 <nighthawk_c_m> dunno if TTDP actually has anything fancy that openTTD doesn't have
22:06:07 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: it has. But let's not discuss it.
22:06:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19613 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#3755]: possible invalid read when server moves client to spectators before he finishes joining
22:18:22 <Mazur> I think I should switch to presignals and prioritising, which I've been reading up on over the weekend, but I'm somewhat anxious.
22:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #1 when redesigning a live junction: make a savegame :p
22:19:44 <Mazur> That's where this is, right after the savegame.
22:19:53 <Yexo> swap the signals and switches on the southeast end of the station
22:20:44 <Yexo> easiest way to do that is where the current switches (2 tiles from the station) are, lower that tile and place signals on those tiles, then the switches on the next tile, then the tunnel where it already is
22:20:57 <Mazur> It's a hybrid station, a terminus and RoRo from the SE, and a RoRo from the W.
22:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you are definitely missing some signals directly south of the station
22:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and north of the station you don't have path signals, that is generally a bad idea
22:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and for every incoming track you should have 2-3 platforms, with 4 tracks means you should have 8-12 platforms
22:23:34 <Mazur> The path siganls north are in front of the road.
22:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i see the signals, but they are not path signals
22:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> at least the last one
22:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and the other ones should be two way, while they look to be one way
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22:25:29 <Mazur> You're right! They are combo signals, they were intended to be path signals.
22:28:15 <Mazur> I have a bouncy mouse (meaning it often activates twice on a single click. ) Which has millions of times made me end up where I don't want to be, "one click to far<".
22:30:05 <Mazur> Ok, lets see what happens when they are righted. Then I can start building the 8 platform replacement in the open to the SW.
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22:30:33 <Mazur> No wonder that city holds me to be mediocre.
22:30:55 <Devedse> Someone gave me a link of a tool to auto update openttd (also to the openttd coop server), can he link that again (i lost the link)
22:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "it works great, only one crash" <- some people have really low standards...
22:31:42 <Devedse> nvm, found it again (in my logs)
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22:46:06 <__ln__> how does one call to a US phone number expressed as "650-xxx-yyyy"?
22:46:31 <__ln__> from abroad +1-650-... i guess, what about over there?
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22:50:52 <SmatZ> you don't call US, US calls you
22:52:25 <__ln__> i haven't told US my number
22:54:19 <FauxFaux> You can just dial 650-..
22:55:06 <Mazur> Ok stopped the two waiting trains, fixed the lights, set them going again.
22:56:14 <Mazur> And I finally wsas allowed to remove the road direrctly beside the station, placed a bridge for the traffic there, and moved the signals under the bridge.
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22:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd put a junction there...
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23:28:41 <Mazur> Eddi: Three X connections, you mean?
23:30:18 <Mazur> Just SW of the bridge, yes, That's possible, now.
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23:56:14 <De_Ghosty> say i crash at 00001562c3 where it tries to divide by 0
23:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to compile with debug symbols
continue to next day ⏵
