IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-04-09
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00:07:50 <SekiSelu> BWJM - In order to have flat platforms, when building your stations, build one train line at a time
00:08:51 <SekiSelu> Rather than slapping down a 6x5, do 6 1x5s :)
00:09:50 <SekiSelu> You can actually get some pretty funky looking stations without needing GRFs if you're inventive with that
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00:18:31 <spoo> on an openttd map, where is the map origin
00:18:40 <spoo> that is, the (0,0) tile?
00:19:22 <glx> (I don't have the origin in my head, but the query tool can tell you)
00:32:18 <spoo> and x seems to go sw<->ne
00:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> use the right-hand-rule
00:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> thumb is x-axis, index finger is y-axis, middle finger is z-axis
00:55:07 <Mazur> Is there a way to speed up those news popups? I can can hardly catch up with them just by bouncing on the space bar, so I feel, that by the time I get the message, the news is too late.
00:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can turn off the "unimportant" messages
01:14:58 <Mazur> Like the closure announcements, which come after the fact.
01:18:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19590 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] setting industry prop 0x24 to 0 caused empty station names
01:40:26 <piro> Hello. I have a quick question. I have two dock/truck loading stations separated by a lake
01:41:23 <piro> And I noticed that if I have the ship just unload coal directly to the dock, I get about 8000 dollars. If I have it transfer the coal and have a truck deliver it to a power plant however, it seems to come out about the same
01:43:24 <piro> My question is, is there some advantage to delivering it directly to the dock over having a truck transfer it to the power plant?
01:46:31 <Mazur> Depends on which is quicker, the faster it gets picked up,and the faster it gets delivered, the more it pays.
01:47:49 <Mazur> There, I'm fully electric, now. Found out how to do it quickly and safely early on in the process. :-)
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02:04:43 <piro> I just learned about coverage areas. Apparently the power plant was in the coverage area of the dock
02:05:53 <moot> so...I can't wrap my head around signals. I've read the wiki page and it's just all incomprehensible
02:09:48 <Mazur> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one supposed to be able to upgrade a bridge by building a bridge where the bridge is? So what cab be the reason I get "must remove the bridge first"?
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02:26:29 <spoo> Mazur, try clicking on one end?
02:27:05 <spoo> moot, signals divide the track into sections; 2 trains can not occupy the same segment...
02:30:28 <De_Ghosty> if the truck only carry it 3 tiles further your not gonna get much more
02:30:45 <De_Ghosty> there is a distance and price graph in the game
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02:52:42 <yuriks_> oh deadlocks, delicious deadlocks =P
02:55:17 <Mazur> I've got a nice little gridlock at one city up North, where the station has only 4 platforms, and there was little space to begin with.
02:55:45 <Mazur> I think I'll leave that for tomorrow, I'm turning in.
02:56:09 <piro> This game is so addicting
02:56:15 <piro> Multiplayer with the girlfriend :D
03:01:06 <yuriks_> Mazur: my trains decided to arrange themselves in a loop around a station meaning none could move and reach an exit from the loop
03:01:47 <yuriks_> had to build a track sticking out from there to let one out and the thing started moving again
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03:02:46 <yuriks_> anyone have tips to avoid "wait for full load" trains from clogging my stations?
03:03:55 <yuriks_> there should be a 'except if a train I share an order with is already at the station' option
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03:50:29 <piro> How do you tell how much a building will cost before you place it?
04:24:34 <piro> And is there a way to update the route of all the buses associated with a particular depot?
04:27:10 <piro> Ok, my airplanes keep disappearing :(
04:27:10 <ccfreak2k> Holding Shift for any construction or terraforming job will tell you how much it will cost.
04:27:42 <piro> ccfreak2k: Do you have to click while holding shift?
04:29:00 <piro> Seriously though, I've built two airplanes, and both are gone now
04:29:53 <piro> Do they blow up or something?
05:05:11 <piro> Apparently they did. There must be a way to update a bunch of vehicle's routes at once...
05:17:48 <Wizzleby> Anyone offhand know why the makefiles for openttd, grfcodec, and nforenum like to pass CFLAGS to CXX? Am I missing something there?
05:35:15 <Wizzleby> I seriously need to stop asking questions about the build system at odd hours XD
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06:51:20 <dih> TrueBrain: your Webtranslator
06:51:31 <dih> how much work would it require to let it support gettext?
06:56:34 <Rubidium> ~1111.11 GiB in 8 days :)
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09:41:47 <TrueBrain> sounds about right indeed
09:42:28 <dih> can your translation baby work for php projects and gettext?
09:42:49 <TrueBrain> [08:56] <Rubidium> ~1111.11 GiB in 8 days :)
09:42:50 <TrueBrain> [11:41] <TrueBrain> sounds about right indeed
09:43:49 <TrueBrain> WT3.0 will never support gettext
09:43:56 <TrueBrain> WT3.1 is stalled in development, and supports gettext
09:44:58 <dih> a kind of stalled and oh - it will never continue?
09:45:29 <dih> or is there a small chance that stalled in this case actually means you would get around to doing some more work on it in the near future (e.g. next 3 months)
09:46:04 <TrueBrain> lack of interest was number one
09:46:08 <TrueBrain> lack of time was number two
09:46:18 <TrueBrain> lack of motivtion was number three
09:46:30 <TrueBrain> my 'define-the-odds' gives me a low value
10:01:11 <dih> ah - that noaddedsugar thing?
10:02:10 <peter1138> hmm, 138GB in the past week
10:03:10 <peter1138> still, only 3.11 mbit/s 95th %ile
10:06:16 <Progman> how good does the load balancer work?
10:09:31 <Mazur> Sorry about the bouncing in and out, but I'm trying to get the start-up right.
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10:46:37 <dih> TrueBrain: what's the address of wt ?
10:46:51 <TrueBrain> well, since Rubidium closed the VPS, there is none :p
10:49:09 <TrueBrain> yes, it does work; very well in fact
10:49:09 <Progman> mentioned ~3 weeks ago
10:49:18 <TrueBrain> even hold up under the slashdot load
10:53:14 <TrueBrain> Progman: it does exactly what we intended it to do. When you are close to a mirror it redirects you to there, till a point that mirror gets overloaded, then it tries to find another mirror
10:53:48 <dih> TrueBrain: any other way you could give me access to the source?
10:53:58 <TrueBrain> also means US people stay at the US mirror for most of the time :)
10:54:13 <TrueBrain> dih: not atm. Even more as I have no idea in what condition it is in. I simply wouldn't know
10:57:04 <dih> ^ that was not meant negetavely
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12:03:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19591 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] AIRail::GetMaxSpeed(RailType) to get the speed limit of railtypes
12:04:19 <TrueBrain> dih: way too busy atm to take care of such things :p
12:05:30 <dih> i know what that is like ^^
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12:54:58 <peter1138> hmm, i could do with some debian magic...
12:56:00 <peter1138> xfs decided, during an upgrade, that it didn't want to talk
12:56:32 <Belugas> Ocus Pocus Octopus Debian Tobian !
12:56:40 <peter1138> dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 1: EOF after field name `'
13:08:08 <Belugas> lol... and it's not even correctly written !
13:09:50 <FauxFaux> peter1138: apt-get clean && apt-get update?
13:10:08 <peter1138> nah, buggered filesystem
13:19:06 <peter1138> hmm, now i need to force-reinstall a load of packages
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13:38:49 <Phazorx> peter1138: xfs-check cant fix it?
13:38:58 <Phazorx> or you cant boot at all?
13:39:02 <peter1138> it can't fix corrupt data though
13:39:13 <Phazorx> oh... data corruption
13:39:20 <peter1138> journalled filesystems... what's the fucking point, eh?
13:39:38 <Phazorx> well shouldnt that like never ever happen?
13:40:19 <Phazorx> unless there is some HW malfunction and lost superblock along with journal tree
13:41:08 <peter1138> well, i assume it managed to get corrupted a while ago during some powercut, and but the problem ran unnoticed until just now
13:46:35 * peter1138 also mumbles about lack of vsync when using two monitors :p
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14:23:54 <Sacro> more OSS games should do this
14:35:33 <Rubidium> so, Sacro... when can you make a nice one for OpenTTD?
14:39:10 <TrueBrain> would be nice if you would do that Sacro ... would have been something good for 1.0.0 release ;)
14:40:00 <TrueBrain> the music is just perfect for the trailer and game :)
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14:42:05 <TrueBrain> also looks like a really good-created game :)
14:42:50 <blathijs> Wouldn't that be well-created?
14:44:29 * frosch123 wonders whether it contains a concrete-donkey
14:57:01 <Phazorx> queen actually made another great title specially for openttd intro
14:57:22 <Phazorx> whoever can guess which song (and video specifically) i meant - gets 5 points
15:00:03 <Ammler> what can I buy with those 5 points?
15:00:09 <Sacro> OpenTTD has made it onto TheDailyWTF
15:01:54 <Phazorx> Ammler: you can get a point cookie once you get to 100
15:02:20 <Phazorx> what;s with "buy" anyway... i know swiss are all about banks... but not everything in the world revolves around money
15:02:23 <SpComb> I was about to say the same as Sacro
15:02:25 <Phazorx> take OPENttd for example
15:02:27 <Ammler> Sacro: never link to image directly :-P
15:03:17 <Belugas> at work????? buwhahahahahahah!!!!
15:03:21 <Sacro> The OpenTTD error comes from a truly awesome game - Transport Tycoon Deluxe. '
15:03:30 <Sacro> the OpenTTD error comes from OpenTTD
15:04:40 <Phazorx> Belugas: i meant Queen - Breakthrough
15:04:59 <Phazorx> imho it's really fitting by many counts
15:05:17 <Belugas> i would not say that, personnaly...
15:05:20 <Ammler> Sacro: the link to the article would be nice
15:05:35 <Belugas> just pointing to the song only, note...
15:06:01 <Phazorx> Belugas: considering 1.0.0 i'd say lyrics fits too :)
15:09:12 <Belugas> well... for a user pint of view, i'd say so. but.. as a whole, it's more an evolution than a breakthrough...
15:09:22 <Belugas> it's a break through the 0.x scheme
15:09:35 <Belugas> but... apart from that... it's really an evolution
15:09:47 <Belugas> not the one of the current dev team
15:11:20 <peter1138> that's not as exciting
15:13:03 <Belugas> water... droping slowly from a nipple, shot in front of a black backdrop, ISO 100, with a 70-200mm L 2.8...
15:13:12 <Belugas> yeah, water can be exciting!
15:13:54 <peter1138> Belugas can make words pornographic :)
15:14:06 <Phazorx> Belugas: are you sure you are at work?
15:14:15 <Belugas> yup, in body at least...
15:14:43 <Phazorx> sounds like you need to cut your friday short and swing by a bar
15:19:14 <Belugas> there are naked girls with water dripping from the nipples in bars?
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15:24:44 <aber> reminds me of "Manneken Pis"
15:26:53 <Belugas> who knows about the "Janneken Pis" ?
15:27:10 <Belugas> or somehting... not sure about the real spelling
15:28:36 <Belugas> watch out... i'm one!
15:45:37 <DJNekkid> George3: you got a PM on tt-forums (if you are ECS-George)
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15:52:28 <George> can you save in xls, excael can't open ods
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16:02:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19592 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix: don't do the desync debug savegames mid-StateGameLoop; they're increadibly useless (or hard to load correctly) in that case
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16:07:06 <DJNekkid> George: should be able... hehe
16:08:39 <DJNekkid> .ods is 700kb, .xls is 3mb! :D
16:09:22 <DJNekkid> there you go George... sent
16:13:37 <doclzor\afk> any changes to change resolution? everything is like far away from me even tho im max zoomed in
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16:22:48 <welshdragon> doclzor\afk: yes, change it under 'settings'
16:23:18 <doclzor\afk> hmm didn find it.. i must be blind =)
16:24:53 <Jupix> doclzor\afk: install extra-zoom :P
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16:31:53 <Phazorx> DJNekkid .ods is 700kb, .xls is 3mb!... wow... DJNekkid discovers power of gzip?
16:34:26 <Phazorx> csv will be larger than both most likely
16:34:46 <Phazorx> OO docs are just gziped
16:35:07 <Phazorx> Lakie: in case of csv formating is kinda standardized
16:35:34 <Lakie> Spreedsheets usually contain formatting information, layout etc. CSV is usually just raw data.
16:36:00 <Phazorx> Lakie: formatted data is easily compressable due to patterns
16:43:37 <Ammler> Phazorx: sadly OO doesn't support unzipped docs
16:43:50 <Ammler> so you could add those to a vcs
16:44:33 <glx> smart vcs can handle them
16:44:58 <Ammler> glx: you mean with hooks compress/uncompress?
16:46:09 <Ammler> dunno, if that is "smart"
16:46:33 <Ammler> smarter would be if oo could read it those right away, it needs decompressing anyway
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16:51:09 <Ammler> also, iirc oo docs are zipped, not gzipped
16:51:50 <DJNekkid> practically not formatted, that doc
16:53:25 <DJNekkid> with about 35*1350 contain a formula
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17:09:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19593 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: improve loading/executing the desync logs
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17:31:16 <DJNekkid> now this is most likely a stupid question, but why do i need gfx/sfx files to run a server?
17:31:50 <Ammler> e.g. for map generation
17:32:24 <Ammler> you can use nosound for sfx
17:32:41 <Rubidium> sfx isn't needed on a server
17:32:55 <Rubidium> gfx is needed because it contains a bit more than only graphics
17:33:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: if you would use the new generator, it would go without?
17:34:04 <DJNekkid> Rubidium: okidoki... :D:D
17:34:23 <Rubidium> Ammler: there's still quite a lot depending on data from the graphics files
17:34:37 <Rubidium> e.g. constructing windows
17:44:50 <lennard> aww, you guys made thedailywtf
17:45:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19594 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt portuguese.txt turkish.txt):
17:45:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by fumantsu
17:45:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity
17:45:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 16 changes by niw3
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17:49:19 <Ammler> lennard: isn't it possible the "wtf" belongs to the poster?
17:50:09 <Ammler> it isn't reproduceable...
17:51:38 <Rubidium> I'm wondering what's so "wtf" about it
17:51:50 <Ammler> the list about missing grfs
17:52:26 <Rubidium> but the line above it says that if nothing misses he should file a bug report
17:52:59 <Rubidium> so the wtf is why the fuck didn't he file the bug report?
17:53:15 <Ammler> yeah, the wtf belongs to the poster :-)
17:53:16 <frosch123> what was the character limit for the messagebox again?
17:54:28 <Rubidium> much more than that :)
17:54:50 <Rubidium> although for the sake of making it look better we might use our custom (help) 'box' for those messages
17:55:39 <Ammler> hmm, what if his screen has that size
18:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the text is way too cryptic for a useful error message
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18:10:27 <frosch123> "OTTD crashed. That is your fault. Install following files with appropiate versions:" <- better?
18:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that is way shorter :)
18:18:38 <qFox> is there an overview to the keyboard bindings somewhere?
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18:19:57 <qFox> i'm there. searching for various related keywords did not turn up a result or too many bogus results
18:20:48 <frosch123> and "Hidden features"
18:21:26 <qFox> ahhhh delete. not the most obvious key on a laptop :p
18:22:41 <qFox> i dont suppose there's a mass sell option?
18:22:56 <frosch123> the third icon in the depot?
18:23:03 <Phazorx> there is sell everything in depot button
18:23:07 <Phazorx> but there is no shortcut
18:23:30 <frosch123> or do you mean "close this company NOW" ?
18:23:35 <qFox> yeah i'd like to sell about a 1000 cars spread over about 100 depots :p
18:24:06 <qFox> i mean, there's an option to send them to the depot. why not sell them
18:24:25 <qFox> seems trivial after that (but thats an easy assumption, i know :)
18:28:39 <Ammler> depoted vehicles shouldn't cost money or cpu, so just leave those :-)
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18:30:04 <qFox> yeah but i want to remove everything i have :)
18:32:11 <Ammler> load the save in scenario editor
18:34:01 <Yexo> qFox: start all vehicles, then remove all except for one depot, then send them all to a depot
18:34:48 <qFox> hm. is it possible to filter what to delete?
18:34:57 <qFox> say, demolish only depots..
18:35:09 <qFox> i mean, i know its possible for road/rail
18:35:33 <qFox> see, i've taken over a few ai's
18:35:41 <qFox> and the number of depots is dramatic
18:35:50 <qFox> and i can wipe the whole landscape
18:35:59 <qFox> but that will make it impossible for most vehicles to get anywhere :p
18:36:11 <qFox> so i'm kind of out of options
18:36:22 <qFox> i guess i'll leave the depots and cars
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19:34:34 <qFox> niet als die kortgesloten is
19:35:15 <ddfreyne> that would indeed be bad news for your electric railways
19:36:00 <bryjen> hrm. setting NARS grf parameter 1 to 2 used to remove the regearing "cargo" from the locomotives. now it appears to remove the locomotives the have that cargo.
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19:36:49 * bryjen wonders when that changed
19:43:24 <qFox> ddfreyne> as it turns out, not so good for computers either..
19:59:24 <qFox> so is there code in place that tries to make towns/cities not build below the sea level?
19:59:44 <qFox> because i'm observing suspicious behavior that looks like that :p
20:00:16 <OwenS> qFox, OpenTTD doesn't have a level below sea level
20:03:25 <qFox> i used to clear water areas around towns, grow them into cities on the lowest level and ... break the dam
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20:03:38 <qFox> but the towns seemed to build higher up
20:06:54 <Devroush> I never knew you could play openttd the evil way
20:06:59 <Devroush> guess you came up with something
20:09:46 <fjb> There are some evil things you can do like flooding or running over road vehicles with trains.
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20:15:02 <qFox> oh i actually assumed the latter was a common tactic
20:15:21 <qFox> its most amusing to hold back 20 cars for some AI with a train
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20:15:34 <qFox> build some monorail crossings
20:15:43 <qFox> and let trains circle around it at highspeed
20:15:49 <qFox> slewing one car after the other
20:15:55 <qFox> takes some time to set up, but ohhhh the joy :p
20:17:10 <qFox> or building a line of traffic right in front of a competitors loading area, effectively blocking access while your guy is waiting to fully load some cargo that doesnt exist
20:18:07 <qFox> building some roads for shortcuts near a competitors route so they'll take your road instead, then cutting it off at certain points when some cars are on it
20:18:19 <qFox> and the ai usually never recovers
20:19:14 <qFox> ahwell. nuf ways to take it out on the enemy
20:24:16 <fjb> Be careful if your competitor is not an ai. He may strike back once you started the war.
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20:36:17 <fjb> Hm, some AIs should really learn how to upgrade vehicles. 125 years old buses are cute as long as they are not driving in ahead of you.
20:52:17 <DJNekkid> does anyone here like rap? im trying to figure out what tune im thinking of, but i cant really find it
20:52:21 <nighthawk_c_m> A question, I told my train groups to replace the engines, some trains did it automatically while running their tours, some dont .. anyone have an idea why?
20:52:23 <DJNekkid> it might be snoop dogg...
20:52:48 <DJNekkid> it goes something like "i was na na na na on the dizzle, with the so me th in g on the zizzle"
20:53:09 <Alberth> those some trains have a depot order and other 'dont's have not?
20:53:33 <nighthawk_c_m> No train has a depot order
20:54:03 <Alberth> do you have servicing switched on?
20:54:07 <nighthawk_c_m> I had all running on tour and just chose the new engine, 90% went into a depot along their tour to refit, the rest just doesnt
20:54:14 <fjb> Or something prevents them from upgrading to the chosen machine. Are you using a train GRF?
20:54:15 <nighthawk_c_m> no, servicing is switched off
20:54:50 <Alberth> so they never need to visit a depot, or they cannot find one.
20:55:25 <fjb> When servicing is switched off they have no need to go to a depot and will not upgrade.
20:55:33 <nighthawk_c_m> well, actually only 1 train seems not to refit, and he is running on his regular tour past a depot
20:55:48 <nighthawk_c_m> well all the others did without explicit order
20:55:58 <nighthawk_c_m> so that seems to have changed to past releases
20:56:22 <Alberth> trains look for a depot only some of the time
20:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> especially path reservations can make a train not find a depot
20:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because once reserved past a depot, it cannot make a detour anymore
20:57:33 <nighthawk_c_m> no path reservation, just regular signals
20:59:05 <fjb> Or the wrong type of replacement engine (passenger/cargo).
20:59:37 <nighthawk_c_m> out of 16 oil trains 13 replaced themselves, 3 I need to do manually
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21:44:58 <OwenS> Jeez... Theres an Eve Online player... Who spent $10k real world money on the game O_o
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21:50:53 <dih> OwenS: what he do? buy it?
21:51:38 <SpComb> I'm sure $10k would get you quite far in EVE
21:54:07 <OwenS> dih, He bought "time cards". Which he then proceeded to sell (crashing the market) for in game money
21:54:15 <OwenS> With which he bought spacecraft
22:05:26 <fjb> Mixing game money and real money is a bad idea.
22:07:39 <Coco-Banana-Man> only if you turn Inflation on :D
22:08:22 <frosch123> fjb: depends on the transfer direction :p
22:09:01 <fjb> Ok, a few people really have fun.
22:10:59 <Phazorx> microtransactions are always fail actually
22:11:18 <Phazorx> they usualy a sign of marketing department getting more power than creative/developers
22:11:27 <Phazorx> which happens in decline of a game
22:12:01 <Phazorx> sad, eve was one of successful examples of modern game dev
22:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ... every game declines
22:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ... even openttd will decline at some point
22:16:08 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: first person killing "games" have been there for millenia
22:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's a "genre", not a "game" :)
22:17:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so stab-a-person isn't a game? :(
22:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> not one single game, but many different games
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22:26:16 <fjb> Hm, I got mogul status. Could have done more, but the game was fun.
22:29:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19595 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Doc: mention the addition of AIRail::GetMaxSpeed in the AI changelog
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23:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the deveolopment forum gets somewhat boring...
23:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there are basically three active patches on there
23:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist is somewhat "stuck"
23:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> autoseparation does not do what i want
23:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and daylength is unlikely to ever go anywhere, especially when each new attempt just ignores every previous attempt and goes "i fix the balance issues as they come up"
23:26:48 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, ProgSigs is also active. As active as it can be while this slow ass company is not delivering my HDD...
23:30:31 * OwenS ponders why rTorrent doing a hash check on files on his media drives would cause his system to lag so badly (Considering nothing should be accessing said drives except rTorrent and the music player)
23:33:34 <piro> So if I have an airport next to a city, and it says it accepts mail, do I have to have a truck transport mail from the airport to the city for it to count?
23:34:02 <OwenS> If a station accepts something, you can drop it there and its done
23:36:20 <piro> Let's say I have a city that's close to a body of water but not close enough to say that it accepts anything. Is there any way to transport stuff to the dock via bus/truck?
23:36:28 <piro> And actually have it mean something?
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continue to next day ⏵
