IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-04-03
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02:06:54 <Lapsus> I recall there being a php server configurator for openttd floating around, but I can't find it. Anyone willing to help me look? :o
02:08:00 <PeterT> Lapsus: I know what you're talking about
02:08:16 <Lapsus> Hooray, I didn't hallucinate it! :D
02:10:06 <PeterT> but the links don't work
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03:29:14 <Lapsus> Hooray, an internet storm.
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04:52:42 <DarkED> hi all. i just installed openttd 1.0.0 on windows using the installer. i selected the open packs. after installing i try to run the game and it's still looking for the original TTD files.
04:55:09 <DarkED> ahh, got it. had to change openttd.cfg to use 'OpenGFX'
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06:12:51 <welshdragon> yarikos: are you able to be a bug fixer? that would be better than releasing unofficial uilds
06:15:26 <yarikos> i see, but unfortunately, no
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08:35:16 <andythenorth> now I remember why I didn't centre ships in a large bounding box
08:35:36 <andythenorth> that means quite a lot of work was pointless :(
08:36:41 <Ammler> you need around 3 different bounding box templates :-)
08:37:09 <andythenorth> Ammler: probably
08:37:28 <andythenorth> but that's even more work
08:39:17 <Zephyris> Can't you just design the ships in a big template when autocrop the sprites?
08:39:46 <Ammler> autocrop might not fix the bounding boxes, does it?
08:40:30 <Zephyris> There is a test version of grfcodec which does it...
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08:42:01 <Zephyris> It worked well for me with generic cars...
08:42:38 <Ammler> Zephyris: do you have a link?
08:43:44 <Zephyris> I'll have a look, ill be quite slow, I'm ircing from my phone!
08:44:39 <Ammler> or keyword do search for?
08:46:35 <Zephyris> I can't remember where I found it, possibly the grfcodec development thread
08:48:11 <Ammler> andythenorth: just try with -c
08:48:21 <Ammler> hmm, I thought, that is default on pm's grfs
08:48:59 <planetmaker> GRFCODEC_FLAGS ?= -e -p 2 <-- no
08:49:13 <planetmaker> but it might obviously be worth to add
08:49:15 <Ammler> I wouldn't think, bounding boxes aren't needed on the buy menu, anyway
08:49:20 <planetmaker> (found in scripts/Makefile.def
08:50:10 <Ammler> planetmaker: was the once a bug with that option
08:50:33 <planetmaker> dunno really. But we once discussed that option
08:50:55 <Ammler> there was a reason, we didn't use it, but I thought, that is fixed.
08:52:14 <planetmaker> probably it's fixed, yes
08:53:05 <planetmaker> so... andythenorth try "make GRFCODEC_FLAGS=-e -p 2 -c"
08:53:21 <andythenorth> what does it do?
08:53:25 <planetmaker> make GRFCODEC_FLAGS="-e -p 2 -c"
08:53:40 <planetmaker> it should crop the unnecessary blue of sprites
08:53:49 <planetmaker> see whether it fixes the purchase / depot view
08:54:07 <Zephyris> tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=523866#p523866 that where I found it...
08:54:13 <Ammler> -c Crop extraneous transparent blue from real sprites
08:54:46 <Ammler> Zephyris: then we speak about the same
08:54:55 <Ammler> that is in grfcodec nightly
08:55:13 <andythenorth> so it fixes the offsets....hmmmmm
08:55:36 <Ammler> andythenorth: definityl worth a try :-)
08:56:14 <planetmaker> like one time calling make...
09:01:31 <planetmaker> yo man. That works wir r290
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09:12:32 <Zephyris> Tis a great little feature, not sure why it isn't in grfcodec trunk...
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09:13:41 <Ammler> [10:54] <Ammler> that is in grfcodec nightly
09:14:20 <Rubidium> Ammler: but if it is in grfcodec nightly, then it is in grfcodec trunk... however Zephyris claims it isn't in grfcodec trunk
09:14:33 <Rubidium> so by deduction he can't be speaking of that
09:14:34 <Ammler> yeah, it was for him :-)
09:14:56 <Zephyris> Hmm, I think I'm confused!
09:15:09 <Rubidium> and grfcodec development is quite heavily stalled and such
09:16:55 <planetmaker> Zephyris: trunk = as new or newer than nightly :-)
09:17:32 <planetmaker> stable versions... IMHO not worth it for both nforenum and grfcodec as both suffer from sever penalties and bugs
09:17:50 <planetmaker> they'd make your life troublesome.
09:18:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: those are just symptoms of the real problem
09:18:29 <planetmaker> real problem = no recent releases?
09:18:37 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no patchman
09:20:00 <Ammler> Zephyris: what grfcodec version are you using?
09:20:01 <Rubidium> hmm, OpenTTD "started" after TTDPatch "died"
09:20:29 <Rubidium> "started" = first stable release, "died" = last stable release
09:21:18 <Zephyris> Ammler: no idea tbh, I haven't done grfcodecing in ages...
09:21:51 <Ammler> since opengfx is hosted at the devzone, grfcodec has -c in trunk
09:22:02 <planetmaker> and nforenum respectively
09:22:12 <Ammler> (it was a bit buggy at that time, afaik)
09:22:30 <planetmaker> Rubidium: but then release(s) shouldn't depend upon a single person.
09:22:47 <peter1138> openttd releases depend on Rubidium
09:23:05 <Ammler> so if Rubidium leaves, openttd will die too?
09:23:08 <peter1138> everyone else is too scared and/or lazy to do so
09:23:15 <planetmaker> peter1138: but even if he beamed himself to Mars, I'm sure you have one who could do things
09:23:26 <planetmaker> (ignoring scared and lazy)
09:23:32 <Rubidium> peter1138: you can perfectly well do a release without me (just ask TB to start the CF and give you the URL to post news items)
09:23:52 <planetmaker> frosch can surely post news items
09:24:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: says who?
09:24:15 <planetmaker> The website :-) as there are posts by him?
09:24:36 <Rubidium> nah, that's just me and a bit of magic :)
09:24:58 <Rubidium> he has written it, but was/is away for a while
09:26:38 <Rubidium> peter1138: but you released openttd-0.6.0-beta5 (and glx beta4)
09:27:29 <Rubidium> when I was in respectively Hokkaido and Kyoto
09:27:41 <planetmaker> it's always good to have at least two people who can do things
09:27:48 <peter1138> i don't remember doing that :)
09:28:21 * peter1138 would like to be not ill, plz
09:28:22 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by peter1138 :: r12338 /tags/0.6.0-beta5 (9 files in 3 dirs) (2008-03-04 20:29:12 UTC)
09:28:23 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Release: 0.6.0-beta5
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09:32:44 * planetmaker hands peter1138 a cup of black tea with hot lemon
09:33:54 * andythenorth would add graphics for loading bulk cargos to FISH....but there is no way I'm working out the recolor tables in the next few months
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09:37:55 <Zephyris> Can you use 2cc with recolouring tables?
09:39:50 * Terkhen thinks about setting his router on fire
09:40:33 <andythenorth> Zephyris: apparently, but you need a *lot* more recolour tables
09:40:46 <andythenorth> I think someone has done if for the german RV set (?)
09:41:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but you can confirm that grfcodec -c works as desired, yes?
09:41:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: haven't tested yet, still got baby-brain
09:41:21 <andythenorth> what do I need to change?
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09:41:36 <planetmaker> ... well. Look at the image I posted above
09:41:47 <planetmaker> and the command I gave above...
09:42:49 <planetmaker> [10:53] <planetmaker> make GRFCODEC_FLAGS="-e -p 2 -c"
09:43:40 <Zuu> Terkhen: That's probably not a good idea. Burning plastics is not really healthy. ;-)
09:44:45 <andythenorth> planetmaker: appears to work
09:44:58 <andythenorth> haven't thoroughly tested but looks good so far
09:45:08 <Terkhen> it would be very satisfying anyways
09:45:10 <andythenorth> so recolor with 2cc.....needs 256 tables?
09:45:18 <andythenorth> someone wrote a macro or C app to do it IIRC
09:45:28 * andythenorth goes back to what he was doing
09:45:51 <andythenorth> if $someone wanted to provide an offset editor as an easter gift....that would be just ace :P
09:46:10 <Zephyris> I guess it needs a lookup table for each 2cc
09:46:10 <planetmaker> but not very useful
09:47:01 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I do actually have an offset editor
09:47:08 <andythenorth> it's called TextWrangler :P
09:49:14 * andythenorth wonders if ships should have such insanely fast loading speeds. Looks weird
09:51:20 <Zephyris> So who feels like trying to lift the 2cc recolour restriction in openttd? If you can automatically generate the tables out of openTTD then surely it could be done in openTTD...
10:00:01 <andythenorth> so ship loading states....
10:00:14 <andythenorth> hatch covers being removed and so forth
10:00:27 <andythenorth> life is too short yes?
10:01:13 <maitre> i have a openttd compilation problem under macosx
10:01:22 <maitre> is it the right place to discuss this ?
10:01:55 * planetmaker likes meta-questions a lot.
10:02:21 <maitre> i get a linking problem : ld: library not found for -licudatac
10:02:36 <maitre> but i cannot find any package with this name
10:02:38 <andythenorth> OS X version, and type of CPU (intel, powerpc)
10:03:04 <planetmaker> maitre: sudo port install libicu
10:03:08 <andythenorth> maitre: you know there's a compiled binary in the forums?
10:03:56 <andythenorth> might save you some time
10:04:13 <andythenorth> although it's good to learn how to compile :)
10:04:19 <planetmaker> but better learn to compile it :-)
10:04:33 <maitre> have already install "sudo port install icu"
10:05:22 <maitre> cannot find libicu in macport
10:05:23 <planetmaker> hm... right. icu is it
10:05:42 <maitre> (but maybe this is my port version which is not uptodate)
10:07:06 <planetmaker> icu @4.3.4 devel/icu <-- @ maitre
10:07:13 <planetmaker> that works for me
10:07:37 <maitre> under 10.6 / intel 64 ?
10:08:45 <maitre> this package is not listed an the "how to compile on macosx" page
10:09:47 <planetmaker> add it :-) It's a wiki
10:10:21 <maitre> ok, now, i just add icu package
10:10:42 <maitre> need to clean and re-compile ?
10:10:49 <planetmaker> though ICU is mentioned on the wiki for static things
10:11:39 <planetmaker> well... try to add the library path to the linker dirs.
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10:15:36 <Rubidium> using icu 4.3.4? Yay for using beta libraries half a month after the 4.4 (stable) release has been made
10:18:37 <maitre> im not able to locate libicudatac
10:19:28 <planetmaker> what does /usr/local/lib/*icu* look like in your case?
10:20:18 <Rubidium> maitre/planetmaker: sounds very much like icu-config returns incorrect data
10:20:23 <OwenS> Rubidium: Incidentally, what does OTTD use ICU for when it stores all its strings in UTF-8 anyway?
10:20:49 <planetmaker> hm... I think I downloaded from icu website some time ago. And installed myself. Not using macports
10:21:02 <maitre> planetmaker: ls: /usr/local/lib/*icu*: No such file or directory
10:21:15 <planetmaker> yeah. macports installs in /opt/...
10:21:33 <maitre> locate gives : /opt/local/lib/libicudata.43.4.dylib
10:21:44 <maitre> but no libicudatac anywhere
10:21:47 <Rubidium> icu-config --ldflags-searchpath tells where it thinks the files should be
10:23:00 <maitre> ok, thats sound reasonable : -L/opt/local/lib\c
10:23:14 <Rubidium> the \c sounds quite wrong
10:23:53 <Rubidium> but then, what's wrong on OS X and what's right usually isn't what I instinctively think
10:24:24 <maitre> anyway, there is no libicudatac in this dir
10:24:25 <OwenS> Hehe... my system has libicuc.so.40
10:25:20 <Rubidium> OwenS: libicuc.so.40 or licicuuc.so.40?
10:25:32 <OwenS> libicuuc.so.40, my mistake
10:26:34 <maitre> so, i will try the binary version
10:26:59 <maitre> i do enough compilation at work
10:27:52 <Rubidium> if you don't want to use RTL languages you can just use --without-icu at configure time
10:28:10 <maitre> what is rtl language ?
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10:28:33 <Rubidium> like Hebrew and Arabic
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10:41:45 <andythenorth> ha ha, all the ship's hatch covers just snap back on from nowhere :)
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11:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: isn't that semi-solvable by loading stages?
11:03:23 <andythenorth> welcome to drawing hatch covers in various states of open :D
11:03:29 <andythenorth> not for me, not today
11:04:04 <andythenorth> but yes, that would fix it. I had a test of it earlier, but I deleted it before I got too attached to the effect
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11:40:17 <andythenorth> ships should have masts and other greeble and crap
11:40:27 <andythenorth> but the ships in FISH look nice and simple at the moment :o
11:40:59 <andythenorth> opinions? toylike simple ships, or more realism?
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11:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> not so much realism as aesthetically appealing
11:54:33 <andythenorth> while I'm at it....I'm drawing sprites for tanker refits
11:54:53 <andythenorth> I'm wondering about using 2CC for the main hull instead of 1CC
12:03:10 <Terkhen> I like how the ships look, I don't think they need more details
12:03:14 <Terkhen> about the colours... I don't know
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12:29:01 <andythenorth> think I'll leave the ships 1CC for now
12:29:31 <andythenorth> i.e. the tanker refit has same hull colour as other cargos
12:38:06 <Terkhen> at the aluminium plant, production does not step up if both cargo types are delivered within one month like in other industries?
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12:42:05 <andythenorth> it could, but irl that's not how it works
12:42:23 <andythenorth> do you think it's weird for gameplay?
12:45:31 <Terkhen> kind of, I'm not delivering any scrap metal to the aluminium plant because I'll get more cargo using it for steel, and both cargos are paid almost the same
12:45:53 <andythenorth> I might change it
13:06:20 * andythenorth wonders if the aluminium chain in FIRS is pointless
13:08:52 <Terkhen> but only steel would be too boring
13:10:01 <andythenorth> the only difference is bauxite...aluminium and steel go to the same destinations
13:10:10 <andythenorth> -> foundry and -> machine shop
13:13:38 <andythenorth> ach, it can stay :)
13:13:48 <Terkhen> engineering / farm supplies are IMO the most profitable cargos in the long run, they must be hard to get
13:14:13 <Terkhen> only steel would make it easier
13:18:38 <andythenorth> Terkhen: is it clear that you don't have to combine cargos at the machine shop (if not, I need to improve texts!)
13:20:19 <Terkhen> the text is clear, but I wrongly assumed it did at my first games
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13:24:10 <planetmaker> Terkhen: are you worried about your friend? ;-)
13:24:25 <planetmaker> or is it your future self? :-P
13:27:31 * andythenorth worries about FIRS being too complicated with combining / not combining cargos
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13:32:05 <Terkhen> friend? for me, anyone trying to prevent a future full of chocolate is completely evil
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13:33:28 <Gartral> good morning all, would bugs while playing OpenTTD go here or in #tycoon?
13:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> they go to bugs.openttd.org
13:34:31 <Gartral> the thing is: that site is 404ing on my end
13:35:00 <FauxFaux> That's funny, it works on my machine.
13:35:30 <Gartral> AT&T's dns has been AWOL for a few days now..
13:37:26 <Gartral> heh, even google.com is 404ing.. so..
13:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how does a malfunctioning DNS cause 404?
13:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 404 is when you can reach the server, but it doesn't have what you want
13:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> lack of DNS causes you to not reach the server in the first place
13:40:07 <Gartral> if the DNS is on a dnsbl, it will cause other DNS/rDNS systems to refuse to respond.. AT&T has it setup so THEY give you a 404 after they cant find the page
13:40:16 <Zuu> If you can't resolve your issues, forum 31 at tt-forums.net is your second best option.
13:40:33 <Zuu> forum 31 is the OpenTTD problems forums by the way. :-)
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13:41:31 <Gartral> thats cool, can you confirm the bug though? if a station isn't givven the direct name of the town, subsidaries wont be collected
13:41:32 <peter1138> find some different dns servers to use
13:41:55 * andythenorth ponders refitting code
13:42:20 <andythenorth> choose tanker sprites by checking action 3 cargos, or a varaction 2 checking the cargo class?
13:42:23 <Gartral> peter1138: I have OpenDNS.. but AT&T's router box is setup to ALWAYS pass through the AT&T dns, then to the secondary dns...
13:42:50 <Gartral> what i need is a new isp
13:43:13 <Gartral> i'm sorry, is there an off-topic channel? i shouldnt ramble here
13:43:35 <peter1138> yup, it is #openttd
13:43:50 <Gartral> well we're here.. so i guess im ok :P
13:44:07 <andythenorth> what was the bug?
13:44:19 <planetmaker> Gartral: off topic is in #tycoon ;-)
13:44:34 <Gartral> andythenorth: Subsidries won't be awarded unless the station name matches the town's name directly
13:44:58 <andythenorth> definitely sounds like one for bugs.openttd.org
13:45:00 <planetmaker> Gartral: I don't think that's right
13:45:01 <Gartral> planetmaker: uhh huh.. and Pluto has air
13:45:13 <planetmaker> Gartral: yes it has. 2mbar
13:45:19 <Rubidium> 1) OpenTTD doesn't support subsidiaries, 2) you mean subsidies, 3) what version of OpenTTD are you using?
13:46:18 <Gartral> Rubidium: you're right.. i couldnt think how to speel Subsidies, thank you, and openTTD 1.0.0 this was updated three days ago from 0.7.5
13:46:50 <Ammler> he, how do I disable news on a dedicated server?
13:47:09 <Rubidium> Ammler: find the right setting for the news stuff?
13:47:20 <andythenorth> meh and frick. I have to use vehicle var 47. I hate var 47
13:47:32 <Ammler> Ammler: 'news_display.arrival_player' is an unknown setting.
13:47:51 <Gartral> Ammler: is talking to himself! :P
13:48:05 <Rubidium> Gartral: in 0.7.5 you had to deliever within 9 tiles from the town 'center'; in 1.0.0 any station delivering passengers/mail to the town should be okay
13:48:11 <Ammler> he, indeed, well it was a quote from the server
13:48:34 <Gartral> Rubidium: i could screencap the problem.. one sec
13:48:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if goods doesn't affect towns, why does the newgrf spec imply it does?
13:48:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: oh, they're not "normal"-ish settings
13:49:13 <Ammler> yeah, I feared so, so not changeable with console?
13:50:15 <Gartral> andythenorth: from play experience, the newGRF settings that mod town names also mod they're needs for growth
13:50:51 * andythenorth needs to edit the fricking TTDP wiki, I hate wiki format
13:50:53 <Rubidium> andythenorth: have you read the page you linked?
13:51:05 <andythenorth> but maybe I read it wrong :o
13:51:16 <Rubidium> goods don't affect the town, just the subsidies
13:51:32 <Gartral> andythenorth: it could all be in CSV like the old winblows .nfo help texts
13:52:27 <andythenorth> gah, where are cargo classes documented exactly :|
13:52:33 <Rubidium> and whatever TTDP does with goods and it's manymany newtowngrowth parameters doesn't directly apply to OpenTTD
13:52:53 <andythenorth> Rubidium: that's what I would figure from playing the game a lot :)
13:53:20 <Gartral> ohh.. ttdp, sorry the difference didnt correlate in my mind
13:55:39 * andythenorth thinks that 'tanker' should be the sprites for anything that is 'liquid'
13:58:16 <andythenorth> bit shift question:
13:58:17 <andythenorth> 85 47 0F FF // var 47 in format ccccwwtt where I want cccc
13:58:50 <andythenorth> should be a dword
13:58:56 <peter1138> you need a shift of 16 bits and a mask of FFFF
13:59:16 <andythenorth> 0F will shift me 16 bits?
13:59:19 <andythenorth> 89 47 0F FFFF // var 47 in format ccccwwtt where I want cccc
13:59:41 <andythenorth> gah I've spent all day counting things where 00 = 01
14:00:02 <andythenorth> 89 47 10 FFFFFFFF // var 47 in format ccccwwtt where I want cccc
14:00:08 <Gartral> oh god.. that took me forever to get right..
14:00:20 <peter1138> you want a word, not a dword
14:00:26 <andythenorth> 85 47 10 FFFF // var 47 in format ccccwwtt where I want cccc
14:01:16 <andythenorth> ach let's just compile and see what happens :|
14:02:31 <Gartral> my game wont unpause now
14:02:55 <Gartral> do'h, nvm, i havd the save dialoge open
14:04:42 <Gartral> anyone here able to help me figure out why some trains are getting lost.. on limitedly shared track circuits..
14:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: typical reasons include missing catenary, wrong signals and depot visits
14:06:13 <andythenorth> meh, varaction 2s defined for RVs strangely don't work for ships m(
14:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you have to change at least the feature :p
14:08:55 <Gartral> Eddi|zuHause: im assuming catenary is track segments that cross/angle, yes?
14:09:11 <planetmaker> Gartral: it's electrification
14:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: no, catenary is the electrification wire
14:09:34 <Alberth> missing track segments is also a common cause for lost trains
14:10:03 <Gartral> Eddi|zuHause: ahh, in that case it's a non issue, im on magrails.. and aside from that, im using only basic signaling, and theres practically dedicated circuits for vehicles
14:10:42 <planetmaker> Gartral: "practically dedicated" and "only basic signaling" might be the cause :-P
14:11:11 <Gartral> well.. is there a drop site for saved games?
14:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can try the forum
14:13:30 <Gartral> HAH! AT&T stopped failing
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14:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> might want to mention if it's a 1.0.0 game or nigthly game
14:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> in the latter case, also state the revision
14:23:34 <Gartral> oops, it's actually a 0.7.5 game that was ported to 1.0.0
14:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: that should be fine, just mention it :)
14:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you're sure that 0x4000 is the value you want?
14:25:33 <andythenorth> I need to flip them
14:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to learn thinking in little endian
14:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or be consistent with using escapes
14:26:15 <andythenorth> I used to, then I started using a lot of escapes :)
14:26:55 * andythenorth makes the escapes more consistent
14:27:43 <Alberth> Gartral: nice deadlock!
14:28:17 <Gartral> Alberth: all that was an ill-fated atemp to AVOID deadlocks
14:29:38 <Alberth> don't put signals at stretches of rail tracks that are used in both directions.
14:29:54 <Alberth> better, build double tracks, one for each direction
14:31:46 <Gartral> lol, i been playing TTD since i was 7.. that was 12 years ago ya'd think i would be slightly better than this.. huh? :P
14:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: he wants that sending few or many engineering supplies has some difference
14:32:39 * andythenorth wonders exactly what difference there could be
14:33:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks for the translation :)
14:33:44 <Zuu> Gartral: Join the school at #openttdcoop ;-)
14:34:06 <Zuu> Maybe not school, but there you can learn advanced stuff by watching what they are doing.
14:35:16 <Gartral> anyone playing online?
14:35:21 <andythenorth> so primary industries should really be processing industries?
14:35:29 <andythenorth> i.e. output == input?
14:35:30 <Zuu> Gartral: From time to time, but not very often
14:35:47 <andythenorth> mines produce coal according to amount of supplies delivered?
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14:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, i don't think that'll be a good approach
14:36:18 <Gartral> andythenorth: how/what would a mine need?
14:36:33 <Gartral> maybe that should be why/what
14:36:55 <andythenorth> Gartral: trucks, loaders, pit props, explosives, machine parts, etc etc.
14:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: idea: the demand increases over time. when you first deliver engineering supplies, low amounts suffice to double (?) production, but this amount increases, so if you don't supply ever more supplies, the production slowly drops
14:38:45 <planetmaker> that's a nice idea
14:38:50 <Gartral> also, wouldnt it be slightly more realistic if mines took sheetmetal/metal stock and made their own hardware..?
14:39:15 <planetmaker> Gartral: realism != fun
14:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: i don't think real mines ever did that...
14:39:56 <Gartral> having to build a station for a mine that rivals Grand Central != fun
14:41:13 <andythenorth> Gartral: not the case....I'll post screenies in a minute.... :)
14:43:53 <andythenorth> supplies arrive by plane....and are transferred by truck to the sand pit
14:44:40 <Gartral> and the trains take the finished product back?
14:45:06 <Ammler> andythenorth: trams should first turn and then load
14:45:56 <Gartral> Ammler: remember back in TT when a RV turned and passed a station again, it wou;ld stop AGAIN at that station by default
14:46:54 <andythenorth> Ammler: what do you mean?
14:47:12 *** Biolunar_ is now known as Biolunar
14:47:23 <Ammler> now the trams stops and the waggons block "eyecandish" the junction :-)
14:47:46 <Gartral> andythenorth: trams should follow the path through the station, turn around, and stop at the station
14:47:50 <Ammler> that wouldn't happen, if you let them turn around and then load
14:48:05 <andythenorth> I don't know of any way to do that
14:48:26 <Rubidium> try: go non-stop to <station>; go to <station>
14:48:39 <Rubidium> oh, yes... via instead of non-stop
14:49:36 <Gartral> a quick work around would be to set Via Routes including a station situated behind the station you didnt want blocked
14:50:59 <ddfreyne> andythenorth: what gfx are those?
14:51:15 <andythenorth> nice tips. the one down side of my new trams is they block junctions horribly :)
14:52:24 <Gartral> i have never used trams..
14:52:43 <andythenorth> ddfreyne: the industry is FIRS, the trams are HEQS
14:52:50 <andythenorth> the trucks are eGRVTS
14:53:04 <andythenorth> the roads are NA Road Set, the ship is FISH
14:53:44 <andythenorth> and the plane is AV8
14:53:54 <Gartral> or you could make an expaned junction
14:55:31 <Gartral> is there a way to disable a single sound?
14:56:22 <Gartral> i HATE the monorail "humm" as it leaves the station.. it's the equivlent to nails on a chalkboard to me
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14:57:36 <Gartral> They're faster.. and cheaper that maglev.. and trains climb hills too damn slowly
14:57:46 <Ammler> if you run a stable server without newgrfs, you have immediately 10 clients
14:57:47 <Chrill> use realistic acceleration....
14:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: use catcodec to unpack, exchange the sound file, and repack
14:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> catcodec can be found on openttd.org/development
15:14:35 <Gartral> Eddi|zuHause: the readme that cam with catcodec diesnt describe how to use catcodec (yes i know its a cmd line tool)
15:20:05 <Gartral> OH it should be documented that the original TTD files were abandoned by Atari (if this wasnt docuented already)
15:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: there did not happen such a thing
15:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: there did not happen such a thing
15:22:57 <Gartral> Eddi|zuHause: i assume you mean the event was never documented?
15:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: there did not happen such a thing
15:23:14 <Ammler> no, the "event" didn't happen
15:23:57 <Ammler> else you could upload those to bananas
15:25:14 <Ammler> the content (addons) hosting service
15:25:31 <Gartral> link? (ive never heard of this site)
15:25:48 <Ammler> wiki.openttd.org/bananas
15:25:55 <planetmaker> Ammler: only works in our channels :-)
15:26:50 <Gartral> i thought it was a website >.>
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15:27:50 <Ammler> maybe bananas.openttd.org ?
15:27:58 <Gartral> how does one extract the data from the sound catalog?
15:28:15 <Rubidium> read catcodec's man page
15:28:16 <Ammler> by reading what other already wrote
15:29:05 <Rubidium> but then, it's also described in catcodec's readme
15:29:38 <peter1138> you are a fool if you believe that 'abandonware' is some official state
15:30:41 <Rubidium> peter1138: why isn't it an official state; people are officially incorrectly telling it is legal to download and use it
15:34:11 <Gartral> peter1138: how so.. Atari has stated that they "dont care" about it. it's not under any active development from them, and they have no studios billed as working on either TT/D or Locomotion. Or any sequels or similar named products >.> it's abandoned.. therefore abandonware.
15:34:51 <KenjiE20> not working on != giving it away
15:34:55 <Rubidium> Gartral: that implies that any "one-off" is abandonware upon release
15:35:26 <Rubidium> even then, where has Atari stated that?
15:35:40 <Rubidium> and where has Atari stated that it actually owns TTO/TTD?
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15:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: the first part of your statement is plain wrong, and the rest is irrelevant
15:40:08 <Gartral> KenjiE20: all i see are a crapload of old boxed copies being sold man
15:41:43 <Rubidium> ofcourse the boxes are old; they were made 15-16 years ago
15:43:02 <Rubidium> which quite clearly says that it is illegal to just download it
15:43:33 <Rubidium> and that guy should be considered quite authorative in the area of Transport Tycoon (Deluxe) and Locomotion
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15:47:58 <Gartral> also, microprose, the company that originally published and filed copyrights, is gone
15:48:26 <Rubidium> still doesn't mean there's no copyright anymore
15:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: as long as no known legal document says otherwise, copyright must be assumed to be with the original author
15:49:34 <Rubidium> guess he confuses trademarked the name for filed for copyright :)
15:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and it says clearly "by Chris Sawyer" everywhere...
15:49:59 <ddfreyne> is there a way to make sure that buses arrive at evenly spaced intervals? right now, they arrive in batches and that’s rather annoying
15:50:12 <Rubidium> and because he isn't dead yet for 70 years, copyright still holds
15:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ddfreyne: timetabling and setting start dates
15:50:28 <Rubidium> ddfreyne: timetables + start dates
15:52:27 <Rubidium> and for what it's worth, Transport Tycoon's trademark was renewed on 26-09-2006
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15:57:21 <Gartral> ok, well.. heres a glitch: online error boxes appear behind the text field for chat
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16:11:12 <Gartral> is there a console command to give someone x amount of money? :P
16:15:01 <planetmaker> actually neither in SP games
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16:50:46 <Gartral> ok, is there a setting/addon for raising the base money you start with? (like say $500000 Out Of Pocket, and then a million in loans?)
16:52:28 <Alberth> difficulty settings afaik
16:53:10 <Alberth> but that is only initial loan, and not in the amounts you want, I think
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16:55:37 <Gartral> right, im looking for more "the loan is there if you REALLY need it" not "you START in debt too the bank"
17:00:20 <FauxFaux> Even on hard the loan is practically free anyway.
17:01:11 <FauxFaux> He says, from the credit card generation.
17:01:34 * andythenorth was going to suggest a punitive loan
17:01:40 <andythenorth> but there's no point
17:02:18 <andythenorth> ottd really is just a big train set
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17:22:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19548 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp settings_type.h table/settings.h): -Add: Client setting 'gui.ai_developer_tools' to enable the break on AI string
17:23:27 <SpComb> Gartral: use cheats :)
17:25:43 <Gartral> there should be a "trainset" mode.. I know the scinario editor can be used like that, but the effect of TS mode would be the removal of currancy >.>just a thought
17:30:37 <andythenorth> I think it already pretty much is trainset mode for many of us :D
17:30:51 <andythenorth> I used to try and think of ways to make it more of a 'game'
17:31:06 <andythenorth> then I remember I have railroad tycoon 3 if I want a proper gaming challenge
17:31:19 <andythenorth> new FISH anyone? It's got some tanker sprites in it...
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17:32:17 <SpComb> quite, at some point you end up with enough money that you wouldn't have any legitimate use for it
17:34:53 <Gartral> andythenorth: o/ i like RRTC3
17:35:03 <andythenorth> I've spent ages thinking of ways to 'solve' the money problem, but with no answer.
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17:35:34 <andythenorth> incidentally I'm pretty certain that newgrf industries could be used to create a 'challenge' scenario
17:36:21 <andythenorth> with access to some of the town data, and the ability to trigger custom news items, I could code various challenges around delivering xyz units of cargo, or growing a town to pdq number of inhabitants
17:37:14 <andythenorth> with newgrf-local 'global' storage quite a lot more would be possible...hint hint
17:37:16 <fonsinchen> That sounds interesting
17:37:22 <andythenorth> but evil to code :o
17:37:37 <andythenorth> nfo is a very odd way to implement challenge conditions
17:38:04 <fonsinchen> I was thinking about something similar when starting the "alternate economy" project.
17:38:40 <andythenorth> well industry 'related object' is the nearest town
17:39:07 <andythenorth> and industries have persistent storage and plenty of useful cbs.
17:39:28 <andythenorth> so one 'master industry' could be built. Only allow one per map, built near town index 00, no closure allowed
17:39:37 <andythenorth> that would be the 'controller' for the challenge.
17:40:08 <andythenorth> but it's an enormous hack
17:40:13 <Rubidium> and what if town 0 doesn't exist?
17:40:54 <andythenorth> how useful would the AI framework be for a scripted challenge language?
17:41:01 <andythenorth> language/framework
17:41:21 * andythenorth knows nothing about AI framework :o
17:42:01 <Alberth> I'd use squirrel to implement the economy
17:42:27 <andythenorth> ah....but what economy?
17:43:01 <Alberth> I supply the equivalent of the current one, anything else is for you to write :)
17:43:32 * andythenorth wonders about a full spot-price, supply and demand economy like RT3
17:43:36 <andythenorth> but it might spoil my trainset
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17:43:54 <Alberth> ie, the community is never going to agree on the economic model, so we should be able to make our own
17:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19549 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 12 changes by kasakg
17:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 4 changes by josesun
17:45:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by TheLamer
17:45:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 12 changes by jpx_
17:45:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 8 changes by glx
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17:47:38 <Rubidium> Alberth: same with the AI and still they don't like it
17:48:23 <fonsinchen> What's wrong with the AI?
17:49:27 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: it's too smart, it's too dumb, it's too much like the old AI, it's not enough like the old AI
17:50:49 <fonsinchen> So the problem with the AI is that no two people agree on it?
17:50:58 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
17:51:16 <andythenorth> I *everyone* would agree that smoke for ships would be....awesome :P
17:52:26 * andythenorth provides smoke by setting reliability to 0 for all vehicles
17:53:29 <Rubidium> ah, ships smoke too (just had to confirm that :))
17:53:46 <andythenorth> nvm, it's a train game right?
17:54:07 * andythenorth rm -r *s a repo or two
18:02:31 <Gartral> give me the old AI the i could dupe and bully into making me richer faster. and i'll be happy
18:06:47 <Mazur> Yay! I can talk thiss time.
18:06:49 <SpComb> hmm, crash when trying to build a one-way road on a town-owned road, while drawing the error message, it tries to draw the company owner face for the town...
18:07:31 * Mazur is a newbie wrt OpenTTD, en enjoying it immensely.
18:07:57 <planetmaker> that can persist over years. Be warned ;-)
18:08:21 <Mazur> I know, I've enjoyed many such addictions. :-D
18:09:00 <Mazur> But I'm trying to get my head around signals, their attributes and their interactions.
18:10:28 <Mazur> I'm creating a HTML table for that, but I'd like to have the pictures of the various signals from front and back, while on red and green, so I can better learn to identify a signal I've messed with.
18:11:20 <Rubidium> it's quite exhaustive about the signals; you might want to filter on "OTTD" though
18:14:47 <Mazur> Yes, I've found that, but my problem is, my eyes aren't getting better as I grow older, and even in biggest closeup those signals are small. I've a hard time recognising the types used in those example pictures.
18:15:41 <Mazur> So I want to make a help image for myself, with the signals as seen from front and back, and in red and in green condition.
18:17:04 <Mazur> But thosse aren't individually accessible in the sprite files, and there are so many sprites, it's harder even finding the ones I'm looking for.
18:17:45 <Alberth> simply make a few signals in-game, and take a screen shot
18:18:14 <Mazur> That was my next best option, yes.
18:18:32 <SpComb> you can also use the query tool to confirm it
18:18:57 <Mazur> Ah, query tool, I knew there was something I had overlooked.
18:19:11 <Alberth> SpComb Now if only you could confirm from a .png file :)
18:19:14 * Mazur smacks his own forehead, quite hard.
18:19:48 * Mazur passes out and slowly reawakens.
18:22:29 <SpComb> well yes, meaning being that you can use the query tool to check them in-game :)
18:24:10 <Alberth> Mazur: no need to do that, openttd has a lot of options and windows. It is quite normal not to know everything. That's why IRC is so useful.
18:25:09 <Alberth> I found new windows, 3 years after starting to play openttd :p
18:25:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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18:36:50 <Mazur> Well, I did make a one page printable version of the hotkeys, that I find veruy helpful.
18:38:37 <Gartral> im 12 years in and STILL learning.. OTTD is the OS that focuses on trains/managment
18:40:14 <Mazur> I've seen some impressive configurations on the verious websites.
18:41:11 <Alberth> many of those can only be build with a team, but yeah, they are impressive.
18:43:57 <Mazur> I impressed myself when I reconfigured Amsterdam West from 6 platforms to 12 on the fly without a single crash.
18:44:39 <Mazur> Only had two crashes in all, kiling 5 trains.
18:44:53 <Alberth> I find changing the layout while traffic goes on also one of the more challenging parts of the game :)
18:47:02 <Mazur> Yes, I have a block/entery/exit/combo system now, and I want to changeover to a PBS system on the fly, but to do that I need to better understand the signals and hteir side-effects, hence I'm making that table.
18:47:27 <Mazur> For which I'm trying to get the signals images.
18:48:16 <Alberth> I have pretty much completely switched to path signals
18:48:40 <Alberth> much simpler than the entry/exit/combo stuff
18:48:54 <Alberth> and more efficient as well
18:51:23 <Alberth> Standard tactic I use is to first make a single very large block, by deleting signals when they are not used. Then add some path signals back in.
18:51:26 <Mazur> But I've gpt thousands of signals all over the country, so duroing the chanceover I need a clear idea in my head what happens where hte old meets the new.
18:52:19 <Alberth> for single-track it makes little difference
18:53:19 <Mazur> I've dual track opposites ways everywhere, but my stations are all two way platforms.
18:53:24 <Alberth> the simplest way is to make sure trains always enter a block using the same type of signal. That way you get less confused about the type of each block.
18:54:01 <Alberth> 'two way' means a terminus station, right?
18:55:08 <Alberth> if so, the last signal of the track to the station should be a path signal. Remove all signals from the station, up to and including a train length leading outwards.
18:55:12 <devilsadvocate> if you ask me, most of them are silly
18:55:15 <devilsadvocate> and unrealistic
18:55:30 <Mazur> RoRo's as well, entry signal just before a crosslink with an escape hatch, combo between the cross and the platforms.
18:55:43 <Mazur> Exit signal after the station.
18:55:47 <devilsadvocate> Mazur, where is the hotkeys list? :D
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18:56:58 <devilsadvocate> Mazur, those stations are much nicer with presignals
18:57:32 <devilsadvocate> Mazur, and i've found the ro-ro terminus combos work really well
18:59:50 <devilsadvocate> Mazur, that actually works well if you have the same thing on both sides
19:00:39 <Mazur> Alberth: Is that two block signals and a one-way path signal?
19:01:49 <Alberth> yes, the "Standard Electric block signal" as they are called, and a one-way path signal
19:02:06 <Alberth> I don't like trains driving in another direction than I tell them :p
19:03:17 <Alberth> however, if you have a station entered and left from both sides, double direction path signals are useful.
19:03:32 <Mazur> Neither do I, but I like them using both platforms if available.
19:03:57 <Mazur> Yes, but from east and west.
19:04:12 <Mazur> I have many drive through stations,
19:04:31 <Mazur> Or what used to be villages when I built them.
19:05:48 <Alberth> the graphics are obsolete, but at the end of the platforms are double-direction path signals
19:05:58 <Alberth> pointing away from the platform
19:06:31 <Mazur> Yes. Only I use entry/exit there, so far.
19:06:36 <andythenorth> ^ that's pretty much what I use for every station
19:06:52 <andythenorth> except with one way pbs signal on the lead to the station
19:07:33 <Mazur> Both directions must have a dedicated line. I liked the 3 and four track PBS examples, with two middle lanes for overtaking.
19:08:10 <Mazur> Amsterdam-Leiden is going to be like that.
19:09:02 <Mazur> I wish there was some kind of take option to buy built-up lande, though, so one can suggest the town to free up that land for expansion.
19:09:42 <Mazur> They don;t always let me.
19:09:52 <andythenorth> get a better rating...then demolish :)
19:09:59 <Alberth> You can buy land before-hand. Otherwise demolish, and be patient, buying the demolished tiles to preserve them :)
19:10:22 <planetmaker> also it helps to plant trees. Towns like that for some strange reason
19:10:29 <Mazur> Besides, blowing up half the town because I need some extra platforms and tracks might sound somewhat drstic.
19:12:38 <Mazur> yes, buying the land directly next to my stations is already on my list for next fresh game.
19:13:40 <Mazur> I now have some downright ugly speghatti around Leeiden to accomodate all hte gtrains through there.
19:13:40 <ragzid> somethink like buying area 9x11 around small (4x3) airport?:)
19:15:09 <Mazur> One of my learning the basics games I spent long in they disappeared ass an option to build, is that always so?
19:15:22 <ragzid> i just to 7x7, if it is necessary, then comes tree platnting and demolition
19:16:50 <Alberth> Mazur: yes, some airports disappear after some time, although there is an option to disable that.
19:16:51 <planetmaker> the ??? are in fact cyrillic as the IRC monitor channel tells me.
19:17:38 <Alberth> much like vehicles etc also become unavailable after some time
19:17:54 <ragzid> but writing just questions marks makes it more funny :)
19:18:05 <planetmaker> ragzid: they don't
19:18:07 <Alberth> planetmaker: just kick them for writing 'weird' language :)
19:18:42 <planetmaker> ah, it's the 'stable' server. We haven't yet set any strict rules, I guess :-)
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19:19:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: they must like you for building all that infra structure :p
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19:32:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19550 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19543): Scale graphs without taking into account excluded data.
19:34:24 <Mazur> Wnich IRC nettwork is this?
19:34:46 <Mazur> Or which server, if it's a single node thingy?
19:35:24 <Alberth> but you can probably ask that to the server too :)
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19:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> a whois on yourself should mention the server
19:37:56 <Mazur_alt> Yes, but the chat window on hte website didn't show its outpout.
19:38:35 *** Mazur_alt is now known as Mazur
19:40:01 <Mazur> Damn, that's long ago. Straight icrII text and commands.
19:40:19 * Mazur hasn;y been on IRC for quite some time,
19:42:04 <Mazur> B.t.w. that Hotkeys link I gave is a one page printable vesion of the hotkeys, I only have to redo it to include the landscaping ones, or the orders ones, whichI forgot to put in.
19:42:22 <Rubidium> have you checked the hotkey wiki?
19:42:49 <Rubidium> SpComb: is 337 KiB still "mini"?
19:43:14 <Mazur> Yes, that's where I got them from.
19:43:30 <SpComb> Rubidium: diff against cargodist is 40k, and that's mostly autosep
19:44:20 <SpComb> perhaps, it's a silly name
19:44:20 <Mazur> Patrick Stout, now that name rings a bell somewhere, but can't for the life of me figure the connection.
19:44:32 <SpComb> blame PeterT for coming up with it :)
19:48:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19551 /branches/1.0/src/ (17 files in 3 dirs):
19:48:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
19:48:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Feature: Add rail speed limit to land area information window (r19434)
19:48:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Bytes and words get sign-extended for temporary/persistent storage (r19497)
19:48:15 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Stop reducing the size of the vehicle list after selecting a vehicle with a long description (r19480)
19:48:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Implement custom sound effect for helicopter take-off [FS#3668] (r19364)
19:48:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Update: Plural type of Slovak (r19452)
19:49:56 <SpComb> my own code is a 330 LOC .patch, then there's autosep with 715 LOC, and then there's cargodist with 8366 LOC
19:52:17 <ragzid> is there any way how to disable any of keyboard shortcuts?
19:53:10 <ragzid> sometimes it's annoying when I want to use dynamite, but I also have opened a window with command of a train, and it skip to next station...
19:53:13 <Rubidium> a text editor + compiler or for the really advantagous a hexeditor
19:54:40 <ragzid> ok, custom build would be the easiest option :)
19:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19552 /branches/1.0/src/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
19:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
19:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Prevent drawing industries disabled at the smallmap as land tiles when they are built on water (r19523)
19:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Tunnels, bridges and roadstops are build with only one roadtype (r19506)
19:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] During NewGRF loading, store rail type labels in temporary data
19:57:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: and process after loading has finished. This avoids deactivated rail vehicles
19:57:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: being reactivated if the climate property is set after the rail type property
19:57:53 <SpComb> is there going to be a 1.0.1?
19:58:39 <SpComb> takes out the glory of a 1.0 release :(
19:59:00 <Alberth> nobody forces you to upgrade
20:01:12 <peter1138> makes a perfect mockery of it :D
20:02:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19553 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Doc: Added/converted explanation to some GRFConfig functions.
20:02:30 <Gartral> Alberth: no one forces you to upgrade, but will new clients work with old servers and vice-versa?
20:03:09 <Alberth> and nobody forces you to play online, and/or start your own server :)
20:03:10 <Gartral> Eddi|zuHause: then you do have to upgrade ;p
20:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Gartral: i haven't had a release version since 0.4.0.1
20:04:12 <Alberth> I think most OpenTTD players use single player mode
20:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the client/server ratio for 1.0 servers nowadays?
20:05:14 <Ammler> sp players play ttdpatch
20:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> great question to ask "who plays ttdp" in an ottd channel :p
20:06:22 <Ammler> that wasn't a question...
20:06:33 <Alberth> almost a meta-question :)
20:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it was an implicit question
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20:09:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19554 /branches/1.0/src/ (graph_gui.cpp newgrf.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp):
20:09:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
20:09:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Improperly scaled cargo payment graph when having lots of cargo (r19550, 19543)
20:09:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Properties set before property 08 (house, industry, industry tiles) should be ignored, not trigger the NewGRF to be disabled [FS#3725] (r19547)
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20:09:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicle details window did not resize correctly after refitting a road vehicle to a longer variant [FS#3720] (r19533)
20:12:18 * Mazur is a sp, playing OpenTTD.
20:12:40 * Mazur does not have the original TTD.
20:12:54 <Ammler> hmm, company passwords are still not saved through a reload?
20:14:03 <Mazur> Multiplayer tends to be too competetive for an ASS like me.
20:14:27 <Mazur> (Autistic Spectrum Syndrome).
20:14:52 <Ammler> I play coop because there is no compete around...
20:16:05 <Mazur> Damn, missed HIGNFY Extended.
20:16:07 <Rubidium> applause for Ammler!
20:16:38 <Eoin> I have got more news for you
20:16:48 <Eoin> I have got a bit more news for you!
20:17:08 <Eoin> Mazur: it started 2 mins ago
20:18:11 <Chrill> I went to bed at 5:30am last night
20:18:34 <Eoin> i watched FP3 live timing on my ipod
20:18:52 * Rubidium thinks he qualifies for a "has a loose wire" certificate
20:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: feel free to implement a way to store the password hashes so they are associated with the savegame, but not sent over the network
20:19:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19555 /branches/1.0/src/ (51 files in 4 dirs):
20:19:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
20:19:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Remove same_industry_close setting did not do what it said and caused NewGRF trouble (r19499)
20:20:13 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you could assign it to the company name
20:20:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause/Ammler: don't forget that they should not pile up somewhere, should not be part of the savegame and should not be in the savegame directory
20:21:52 <Ammler> if next game doesn't have the same companies, they can be reseted, else just load it again
20:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that still does not solve the problem on _where_ to save them
20:23:41 <Ammler> companies.cache or however you like to call that file
20:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: related question: what happens if you update the binary and the hash algorithm was changed?
20:24:58 <Ammler> well, then you reset it, in most cases, you need to reload
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20:25:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19556 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r19434): Incorrect speed limit reported for rail depots with original acceleration model.
20:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: good. then i expect your implementation by next week.
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20:32:49 <Ammler> hmm, easiest might be a patch, where you can can query the pwhash with console and then let ap write it to a file
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20:41:57 <Rubidium> OwenS: InnoDB seems to be using more diskspace than MyISAM for indices, so it wouldn't help reducing the DB's size
20:43:05 <Mazur> Ok, I fixed my postscript 4 in 1 hotkeys page.
20:43:59 <Mazur> ISAM, haven't heard about that sine my Mainframe days back in the '80s.
20:49:45 * Mazur is contemplating an automatic train security system, a sort of moving path signal that's inherent to the train.
20:52:23 <Mazur> But I mean, a train would reserve one track segment behind it as a buffer, and look ahead for enough free space to drive.
20:53:10 <Mazur> I can see the logic in my head.
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20:56:34 <Mazur> Well, I've got 48 little tracks with the 48 signals mI wish to see built, now to turn the default green signals red and vvice versa.
20:57:52 <Mazur> Any suggestions how to easily set block/entry/exit/combo red? It's not a real productive build, anything goes.
20:58:13 <Mazur> And the path signals green? I suppose I have to let a train approach those.
21:01:09 * Mazur is a newbie and wants this to capgture the image of each type of signal from front and back.
21:01:17 <SpComb> just always use path signals only and it's easy :)
21:01:30 <Mazur> To learn to recognise them by site better.
21:02:59 <Mazur> I have this ongoing game which I want to convert to PBS, this is to create a little aide-memoire for myself, which I will share.
21:05:09 <Mazur> Ok, I guess I'll have to try a lot of different things to achieve the signal changes I'm after.
21:05:45 <fjb> And don't forget to do the same again with different signal GRFs.
21:06:29 <Mazur> Nah, just this one will do, I'm not going to change GRFs in mid game.
21:07:12 <Mazur> I'll use PBS exclusively. I'm beginning to understand how they work.
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21:08:42 <Mazur> It's just that I'm a dead newbie, playing my first seriouss game that I'm not ready to abandon yet, and I want to change over from BEEC signals to PBS.
21:09:53 <Mazur> While 50 trains are running in a limited area.
21:09:59 <OwenS> SpComb: using path signals exclusively has two problems. Firstly, they're rather CPU intensive. Secondly, trains which cant find a way out of a block will just sit there, rather than taking your perfectly planned but noninituitive route
21:10:43 <OwenS> SpComb: How many trains does your average game finish at?
21:10:45 <Mazur> OwenS: that's next stage for me, I'm now just learning.
21:10:59 <OwenS> SpComb: Try 1200-1500 ;-)
21:11:02 <SpComb> perhaps they should be better optimized for the trivial case
21:11:45 <OwenS> Mazur: Wait until you see some of the things I've designed with programmable signals... your head will explode :p
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21:42:27 <planetmaker> hm... I must be something wrong. I compiled 8f394053965c from the 1.0 branch. It should be quite the release one. But... I get a protocol error when I try to connect to the server.
21:42:32 <Mazur> Ok, now I've got all my path signals open.
21:42:52 <Mazur> Now to create images of the other four thpes closed.
21:43:19 * Mazur ponders how to close them.
21:44:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: thanks for testing that :)
21:44:25 <planetmaker> Or do I have to download the release tarball in order to get the same protocol?
21:46:51 <Rubidium> oh, don't know anymore what I did, but it's all initiated by our "friend" that released a 1.0.0 way before it was officially released
21:48:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but yes, you need the tarball (or a svn tag checkout)
21:49:23 <Mazur> Nice friend, that. I've known a few of those, usually around the start of my vacation, so i have to do all ten essentials before release on the last day before vacation.
21:50:14 <planetmaker> svn tag will do then, I guess.
21:57:42 <peter1138> but didn't he release 2.0.0 before that, even? heh
22:43:55 <Mazur> At least, the electric part of it, the semaphores are to the right out of the picture.
22:45:44 <Coco-Banana-Man> wtf..? I'm not getting any track enablers on Nutracks anymore.. what have I broken now? :-O
22:46:01 <Mazur> Well, that's a clear reply from Dreamxtime.
22:47:04 <Coco-Banana-Man> And is anyone else having the problem that some steamers in NARS need electrified Rails..? :-O (e.g. Mogul, Norris, Atlantic...)
22:47:54 <Coco-Banana-Man> in nightlies at least - I didn't have that problem in 1.0.0
22:49:54 <Mazur> I guess I'll have to wait untill my mind is working better again.
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22:56:20 <Coco-Banana-Man> [00:47:39] <Coco-Banana-Man> And is anyone else having the problem that some steamers in NARS need electrified Rails..? :-O (e.g. Mogul, Norris, Atlantic...) <--- the problem does also exist in USSet, so it shouldn't be a NewGRF-problem
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