IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-03-23
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01:05:47 <Belugas> and here we go for a few more coding session
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01:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> since when do you code in the middle of the night?
01:08:08 <fjb> My Sun account is gone. And the Oracle registration is not working. It fails to send me the validation email. :-(
01:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't want you.
01:11:52 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, i've got too muc to do for just doio9ng 9 to 5
01:12:14 <Belugas> so, 've taken some quality time with family, put them to bed, and start working
01:12:27 <Belugas> exactly when i was deving ;)
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08:34:19 <TrueBrain> and a beautiful morning it is
08:34:26 <planetmaker> good morning all :-)
08:50:03 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I certainly can't say that about yesterday's morning, but yes... today's morning seems beautiful
08:52:57 <planetmaker> hazy here, but not foggy.
08:53:35 <TrueBrain> not a cloud in sight
08:53:58 <TrueBrain> the latter strongly suggest there had to be fog here too
08:55:41 <Rubidium> or that someone was cleaning the floor
08:55:57 <TrueBrain> not under the benches?
08:56:19 <TrueBrain> but I have no way of disproving your claim
08:58:17 <Rubidium> it wasn't foggy at 07:00 here, but then... that's a dozen dozens of km from here :)
08:58:42 <TrueBrain> I am more close to the sea :p
09:00:47 <Rubidium> but... I'm only like 15 km from the Dreilandersee! :)
09:07:39 <TrueBrain> I was talking about REAL seas
09:08:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but... just ask planetmaker to confirm it's a real See!
09:08:52 <planetmaker> zee or sea or See?
09:09:02 <TrueBrain> like Germans have any knowledge about seas
09:09:18 <planetmaker> or mare, Meer,... ?
09:11:13 <planetmaker> the Netherlands have according to the CIA fact book 2009 451 km of coast line while Germany has 2389 km ;-)
09:11:17 <planetmaker> Now it's your turn.
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09:11:55 <TrueBrain> so we are much closer to the sea we have; therefor, you only have a broad knowledge about seas, while we have real knowledge about seas
09:12:13 <Rubidium> planetmaker: did they include the parts where the Germans dug away the beach?
09:12:37 <planetmaker> I'd bet that doesn't change much :-)
09:12:50 * andythenorth lives on an island
09:12:51 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, your statement doesn't derive from my citation
09:13:22 <planetmaker> more coast line = further from the sea?
09:13:26 * andythenorth industry window text time again
09:13:27 <TrueBrain> owh, not that closer
09:13:31 <TrueBrain> closer as in relationship
09:14:02 <Yexo> andythenorth: what information do you need this time?
09:14:05 <TrueBrain> as in: because we have little, we are more intense with it, and because you have more, you are much broader with it
09:14:12 <Rubidium> not to mention that the Dutch are really good in artificially reducing the coast line
09:14:23 <andythenorth> Yexo: this is just me writing strings to show the player, it's not debug stuff :)
09:14:33 <planetmaker> @calc 348672 / 2389
09:14:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 145.948932608
09:14:57 <planetmaker> @calc 33893 / 451
09:14:57 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 75.1507760532
09:15:17 <andythenorth> saw mill: 8t wood in = 6t lumber out. Sound ok?
09:15:18 <planetmaker> granted, you have less sqkm land per km coast line ;-)
09:15:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yep
09:15:34 <TrueBrain> so, you have no right of speak when ti comes to seas
09:15:44 <TrueBrain> (now that is a nice derative :p)
09:16:13 <andythenorth> aluminium plant: 8t bauxite = 4t aluminium
09:16:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: stop talking about OpenTTD stuff, it is annoying
09:16:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth, sounds fine, too
09:16:51 <andythenorth> sorry, I'll move my questions to #completelyofftopic :P
09:16:52 <andythenorth> 8t scrap metal = 8t aluminium
09:17:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth, 8t scrap metal = 4t aluminum 4t steel
09:17:23 <andythenorth> not from one industry it doesn't
09:17:38 <TrueBrain> why is the one machine in this whole darn building I need, offline :(
09:18:02 <andythenorth> fertiliser plant: 8t chemicals = 6t fertiliser?
09:18:06 <planetmaker> good that Murphy is currently at your place. That's sufficiently far away from here, TrueBrain ;-)
09:18:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I'd make that 1:1
09:18:34 <planetmaker> it's not like fertilizer needs much processing
09:18:44 <andythenorth> balances better with some other stuff
09:19:03 <planetmaker> well. Of course always what fits better game play. Screw realism
09:19:31 <andythenorth> glass works: 8t sand = 5t output
09:24:21 <peter1138> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
09:24:26 <peter1138> monodevelop won't start :(
09:24:50 * andythenorth thought something like that was how most days start :)
09:25:47 <andythenorth> one FIRS ticket left (again) :|
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09:27:58 * andythenorth waves at DanMacK
09:30:10 <DanMacK> Intro dates... you rock dude
09:30:52 <andythenorth> anyone got Railroad Tycoon 3 installed? I am trying to remember how the industry windows showed production ratios
09:35:25 <andythenorth> which makes more sense:
09:35:33 <andythenorth> "8t wood = 5t lumber"
09:35:48 <andythenorth> "1t wood = 0.625t lumber"
09:35:58 <peter1138> run it with -nologo
09:36:47 <planetmaker> integer ratios are nicer to remember
09:42:54 * andythenorth would like a pie
09:45:05 <planetmaker> apple pie! With cinnamon.
09:49:41 <andythenorth> bah. game blew up
09:58:57 <Rubidium> he's probaby just triggering the same thing over and over again and is reporting the bug mb-style :)
09:59:56 <andythenorth> it's always the same thing - change strings, the game blows up
10:00:18 <andythenorth> totally expected :)
10:03:09 <planetmaker> Rubidium, now, that was truely mean! ;-)
10:04:14 <peter1138> heh, big gravel pit
10:04:16 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, that was a very average reply
10:04:46 * andythenorth can't be bothered to put the production values into strings dynamically
10:05:14 <planetmaker> btw... Yexo is the TTDP wiki missing something like an action0 airports meanwhile?
10:05:38 <planetmaker> I recently skimmed over the changelog and found something which could mean that, but I didn't look to closely back then
10:06:04 <planetmaker> doh... I mean NewGRF wiki :-)
10:06:24 <planetmaker> Not to give false names :-P
10:09:34 <peter1138> didn't mb report all bugs in some obscure german forum about 5 years ago?
10:10:58 <andythenorth> if you'd read that forum you would know that it was at least 7 years ago
10:11:09 <andythenorth> and that the discussion is closed
10:11:36 <andythenorth> he did make some nice ships though. hours of fun with those. And he taught me some stuff about hex
10:12:50 <planetmaker> he... do you read that forum, andythenorth ?
10:13:22 <andythenorth> I've no idea where that forum is. Which means I have no idea what 'the answers' are
10:15:54 <Rubidium> so you haven't seen his vapourware threads yet
10:16:28 <Rubidium> not to mention the stupidness of his versioning system
10:18:32 <Rubidium> next DB(set)XL seems to be 0.9
10:19:18 <Rubidium> and he'll probably releases it around the first beta of TTDP's 2.6 branch
10:19:30 <planetmaker> but so was the next OpenTTD expected to be 0.8 when OpenGFX 0.2.1 was released :-P
10:20:08 <planetmaker> ok, now I was mean ;-)
10:22:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but the next release was somewhat expected back then
10:23:18 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> ok, now I was mean ;-)
10:24:11 * andythenorth thinks errors are going to happen if production values are not put into strings dynamically :(
10:24:37 <peter1138> the german forum does have a nice mouse cursor, though
10:24:49 <peter1138> well, the first bit, not the actual forum :s
10:25:36 <planetmaker> why, andythenorth ?
10:26:22 <andythenorth> blew up the game :|
10:26:35 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I could use some help with string IDs in FIRS some time
10:26:50 <andythenorth> not urgent, but I'm not sure if we have enough, or if they are allocated in sane ranges
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10:29:14 <planetmaker> yep, let's schedule that for one evening; I can't right now promise a particular one, but yes :-)
10:31:12 <andythenorth> opinions on this?
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10:42:51 <andythenorth> ^ 'this' being the text in the industry window
10:42:57 <andythenorth> Does it make sense?
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10:46:18 <geirha> andythenorth: Will farms require farming suplies before it can produce anything then?
10:46:42 <andythenorth> FIRS isn't too evil :)
10:47:17 <geirha> It just increases production perhaps? or you just get cash from transporting them to a farm ...?
10:49:16 <geirha> Cool. I'm gonna download FIRS and give it a try when I have the time to play :)
10:49:39 <andythenorth> there will be a 0.1 release today
10:50:03 <OwenS`Phone> And on bananas?:)
10:50:12 <andythenorth> OwenS`Phone: yes, I think so
10:50:26 <andythenorth> can I be bothered to do all the industry texts before a release?
10:54:11 <OwenS`Phone> Will i get my code cleaned up tonight? Also hopefully
10:56:04 <OwenS`Phone> Because then i can look at implementing complex but useful features :p
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10:57:16 <OwenS`Phone> ...actually, arbritrary signal lookups shouldnt be bad once ive centralised signal removal and modification
10:58:47 <OwenS`Phone> And it will enable building really complex stations without extra sig al tracks :)
11:02:36 <fjb> Are that signals working like path signals or like pre signals for the conventional signals?
11:03:06 <andythenorth> should the mini-map list industries in alphabetical order?
11:03:16 <OwenS`Phone> Theyre a special form of combo pre
11:03:34 <fjb> andythenorth: Yes, but in the selected language. ;-)
11:03:45 <OwenS`Phone> Pbs doesnt havea definable red/green state, so would be rather different
11:03:57 <andythenorth> fjb: hmm. I didn't think of that
11:04:10 <andythenorth> that would need to be patched for, I can't do that in newgrf in a sane way
11:04:23 <andythenorth> seems like a Terkhen style patch? :)
11:05:16 <fjb> OwenS`Phone: Hm, then your signals are not of great use to me. I never use the old style signals because putting a signal behind the switsh is stupid and gives many problems.
11:05:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19502 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail_type.h):
11:05:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: During NewGRF loading, store rail type labels in temporary data and
11:05:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: process after loading has finished. This avoids deactivated rail vehicles being
11:05:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: reactivated if the climate property is set after the rail type property.
11:06:07 <andythenorth> meh wrong fricking app
11:07:07 <fjb> andythenorth: I thought that it would not be possible now. It is not that important in the minimap. But the industry list would need some better sorting, or selecting only a subset of the industries.
11:08:00 <andythenorth> there needs to be an in-game way to see what industries accept/produce a cargo
11:08:15 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon had one, but I can't remember how it worked
11:11:51 <fjb> Yes, that would be great.
11:13:42 <andythenorth> filter on the industry list, similar to how vehicles filter cargo refits?
11:13:57 <andythenorth> not the best gui in the world, but might work :|
11:14:11 <andythenorth> 'someone' was working on the industry list the other day
11:16:47 <fjb> Yes, something like that. That would be at least better than what we have now.
11:17:02 * andythenorth wonders about a string code for the small font
11:17:32 <andythenorth> 0E for those who were interested
11:18:54 * andythenorth would it be helpful to see the cargo icons in the industry window?
11:20:31 <fjb> Hm, maybe, maybe not. They are really small.
11:20:48 <andythenorth> small font size fucks with the line spacing on lines above
11:23:01 <planetmaker> Small font size also might be hard to read :-)
11:23:25 <planetmaker> Actually the screeny you showed from the industry windows looked quite fine to me...
11:23:50 <andythenorth> it's fine, but it handles simple cases
11:24:14 <andythenorth> I have some industries where 3 input cargos produce different output depending on combination
11:24:38 <planetmaker> Different amount of output? Or different ratio of outputs?
11:24:52 <planetmaker> The latter would be... an unnecessary complication IMHO
11:26:05 <andythenorth> different amount of output
11:26:10 <andythenorth> i.e. steel mill etc
11:27:03 <planetmaker> hm, ok. can you give me a pointer where to look up the ratios / conditions? May be source, may be elsewhere?
11:27:17 <andythenorth> ratios are in individual industry templates
11:27:20 <planetmaker> ok... steel mill of course :-)
11:27:30 <andythenorth> what they mean depends on which production template they use
11:27:40 <andythenorth> template A is simplest case - non-combining
11:27:48 <planetmaker> which does steel use?
11:27:51 <andythenorth> template B is steel mill, cement plant - combining
11:28:09 <andythenorth> it's actually based on stupidly simple maths
11:28:42 <andythenorth> it just adds up the ratios for cargos A, B, C *but* factoring in a grace period since last delivery for each cargo
11:29:03 <andythenorth> so coal = 2/8, iron ore = 2/8, scrap metal = 4/8
11:29:24 <andythenorth> it took a *long* time to make it that simple :)
11:33:41 * andythenorth improves the wording a little
11:34:09 <andythenorth> in FIRS, if there are two output cargos, it's *always* a 50:50 split.
11:34:18 <andythenorth> Do I really need to put that into each industry window?
11:34:55 <Rubidium> yes, in every industry window... even those that don't produce cargo at all :)
11:35:06 * andythenorth takes that as a 'no'
11:36:37 <andythenorth> I could do 'efficiency' instead of the integers, e.g 75%
11:36:43 <andythenorth> and let players do the maths...
11:37:35 <planetmaker> that works, too. If you keep it simple like 25%, 33%, 50%, 66% and 75%
11:37:59 <planetmaker> maybe also the 20, 40, 60, 80% work. Everything else starts to get a pain ;-)
11:39:25 <Rubidium> yeah, and 22/7 is such a bad approximation
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11:41:29 <andythenorth> 'efficiency' can't be increased for every FIRS industry
11:41:53 <andythenorth> the cargo chains get messy, and also it's better to keep some industries a bit dumb for fun gameplay
11:42:42 <andythenorth> if a sawmill is always 75% efficient, do players start asking how they can improve that? It's just % transported all over again, but worse
11:43:28 <Rubidium> andythenorth: burnable waste for the power station :)
11:43:45 <planetmaker> having an industry always producing only 75% of the amount of incoming cargo is fine.
11:43:49 <planetmaker> or any other amount
11:43:51 <andythenorth> sawmills power themselves from their own waste
11:43:58 <planetmaker> Standard power plants have 0% efficiency
11:44:27 <andythenorth> this '% transported' thing that's always been there
11:44:35 <andythenorth> very few people seem to understand it
11:44:54 <andythenorth> it doesn't affect production in FIRS anyway apart from a few limited cases
11:45:06 <andythenorth> perhaps it could be hidden with a special flag?
11:45:07 <planetmaker> % transported is something else.
11:45:19 <planetmaker> that's the percentage which is delivered to stations, not?
11:45:57 <andythenorth> do industries only provide that % to stations? So the rest is sent to /dev/null?
11:47:23 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, that's the percentage going to stations... more or less
11:47:29 <Rubidium> depending on rounding and the likes
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11:52:53 <TrueBrain> blegh, I dislike VHDL already, and I just started to work with it .. takes 50 minutes to generate ...
11:54:22 <peter1138> porting openttd? :D
11:55:15 <TrueBrain> there are only 5 buttons on this board
11:55:30 <TrueBrain> I have VGA, DDR, even Network
11:55:42 <Hirundo> andythenorth: Callbac 145 is yours
11:55:54 <TrueBrain> but currently porting OpenDUNE :p
11:56:05 <TrueBrain> mostly because this compiler does understand ISO C ;)
11:56:17 <TrueBrain> does OpenTTD compile with GCC 3.4.1?
11:56:33 <TrueBrain> then in theory it should be possible
11:56:50 <TrueBrain> well, the linux kernel support microblaze, which fully runs on these FPGAs
11:57:01 <TrueBrain> but ... I think we can even make it more efficient :p
11:57:23 <TrueBrain> if we synthesis seperate code for unit handlers and stuff .. lol :p peter1138, you give me crazy ideas :)
12:01:26 <Rubidium> with NewGRFs as co-processors
12:01:48 <TrueBrain> doesnt have co-processors
12:02:01 <TrueBrain> just add it as pcore
12:02:05 <TrueBrain> makes it optional ;)
12:02:40 <Goulp> Rubidium: do you have information about a vehicle becoming bad like in "Disconnecting Road Vehicle" ?
12:06:31 <planetmaker> yes. Incompatible newgrf loaded, Goulp
12:07:43 <Goulp> planetmaker: do you think generictrams v4 is an incompatible newgrf ?
12:08:08 <planetmaker> you started possibly with another newgrf
12:08:42 <Goulp> the savegame i have is on flyspray, but vehicle is already bad
12:08:56 <planetmaker> I somehow seem to have heard the same... probably there^
12:09:11 <planetmaker> Well... if you start with a corrupted savegame...
12:09:11 <Goulp> and my question is : how bad is the vehicle and how can a vehicle become bad ?
12:09:33 <Goulp> no server has not been started with a corrupt savegame
12:10:11 <Rubidium> if we knew how the vehicle became bad we would have fixed it already
12:10:13 <planetmaker> and which is your FS entry you talk about?
12:11:18 <Goulp> but becoming bad is a vehicle state ?
12:12:05 <andythenorth> capping *primary production* in early years of game might not be a bad idea
12:12:13 <Rubidium> depends on how you define state, but yes
12:12:35 <Goulp> then game logic is able to recognize bad vehicle ?
12:12:38 <Rubidium> it is somewhat of a state
12:13:15 <Goulp> then if its able to recognize them, would it be possible to "teleport" them into the first depot avaible
12:13:51 <Rubidium> yes, but that doesn't fix the problem
12:14:00 <Goulp> yeap but it will avoid server stop
12:15:09 <peter1138> and you don't have a savegame from before?
12:15:13 <Goulp> and sure, it will mask the problem of vehicle becoming bad
12:15:24 <Goulp> in my savegame the viehicle is already bad
12:15:50 <peter1138> hence "from before"
12:16:51 <Goulp> but when teleported into the depot, logic can "format" the vehicle to a good state, cant it ?
12:17:23 <Rubidium> yeah, and totally lost
12:18:05 <Rubidium> "how did that vehicle enter my completely dedicated ... network?"
12:18:42 <Goulp> problem of vehicle becoming bad not solved, but masked, but game does not stop
12:18:46 <Rubidium> "oh yes that... something that rarely ever happens caused us to write code to teleport vehicles to a 'random' depot"
12:19:10 <Goulp> as said on flyspray, i got this error twice
12:19:33 <Goulp> or 0.7.x, i dont remember the first time
12:20:06 <Rubidium> so it already happens for something like a year and now you tell us for the first time
12:20:27 <Goulp> i talked about it here, but nobody seems to be aware of it
12:20:51 <Goulp> and some nice guy told me it was a newgrf trouble
12:21:15 <Rubidium> so what's so special about your server that it happens there?
12:21:32 <Goulp> may be it's a goulp server
12:21:35 <Rubidium> Goulp: 99% of the times it is NewGRF trouble because people loaded the game with different NewGRFs
12:22:11 <Goulp> yeap ok , i agree with that newgrf expl, but not in my case
12:22:31 <Goulp> as i didnt make stranges things
12:23:48 <Goulp> ok men, it's my lunch time, will be back in few minutes...
12:24:24 * Rubidium is gone... maybe I'll see you later today, maybe not
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12:27:56 <OwenS`Phone> Fjb: im gonna add restriction progeams to progsigs at some point too, which will be possible to attach to pbs
12:28:17 <OwenS`Phone> They'll affect the pathfinder rather than signal state
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12:32:35 <OwenS`Phone> Then you'll be able to say 'if train length greater than 6, do not allow to pass'
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12:50:06 <peter1138> hurr, and now compiz is not working :s
12:57:40 <SpComb^> how will you survive without
12:58:22 <jordi> yeah, sounds terrible. I say TERRIBLE.
13:02:34 <geirha> I don't know what I would do without wobbly windows
13:05:02 <Wizzleby> wobbly windows are fun
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14:27:27 <andythenorth> possible mac maintainer :o
14:27:33 <andythenorth> wonder if he's any goo
14:42:15 <andythenorth> his typing might be better than ours :P
14:47:14 <planetmaker> hehe. He seems as experienced as myself given his reply
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15:12:42 <planetmaker> <Pirate87> it was: Game Save Failed?Internal error: zlib returned error code <-- wouldn't it make sense to report the error code which was returned?
15:15:15 <TrueBrain> tss, that OSX 'person' uploaded a binary with the original grf files in them
15:16:31 <TrueBrain> I always love removing stuff from the forum :)
15:17:25 <TrueBrain> and I really wonder why he didnt make a dmg file, but a zip ... bad OSX standard
15:19:31 * andythenorth can't remember why FIRS has 'gravel' not 'stone'?
15:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a difference?
15:21:29 <andythenorth> makes a difference if anyone wants to get picky about cement production
15:21:51 <__ln__> andythenorth: your 'possible mac maintainer' looks pretty unskilled.
15:21:58 <andythenorth> cement is produced from calcium carbonate. in the UK 'gravel' normally means something else
15:22:06 <andythenorth> __ln__: meh. hey ho
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15:24:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth, possibly as 'gravel' is already a defined cargo?
15:25:47 <andythenorth> I know there was a reason
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15:27:09 <planetmaker> well... but that's the wrong reason ;-)
15:27:32 <planetmaker> gravel is defined by FIRS according to the newgrf wiki
15:28:13 <planetmaker> there's clay and lime stone and sand - all of those three don't quite fit.
15:28:26 <andythenorth> think pikka has gravel in PBI, but I don't think he implemented the cargo label
15:29:11 <planetmaker> replace gravel by uranium ore
15:29:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: got time to test a FIRS build quickly?
15:29:41 <andythenorth> I've set texts for secondary industry, need to know if they make sense
15:29:44 <planetmaker> I have here very close by a radioactive waste disposal... :-P they need to get rid of it. Sure,...
15:29:55 <planetmaker> just FIRS trunk or something else?
15:30:01 <andythenorth> which is tip right now
15:30:53 <planetmaker> I don't need to run it, do I? :-) That'd look bad at work :-P
15:31:02 <planetmaker> Compiling is fine ;-)
15:32:38 <planetmaker> Except a warning 86 on sprite 967 everything seems fine
15:32:54 <andythenorth> yeah, that's the 5F not recognised issue
15:33:17 <andythenorth> when it's appropriate, have a look at the industry texts
15:33:42 <planetmaker> what shall I look / grep for?
15:34:07 <andythenorth> do they make sense? Try the steel mill for example....they're all in lang7F
15:34:23 <andythenorth> STR_INFO_STEELMILL
15:35:30 <planetmaker> They do make sense. Though one could shorten it: Production is cumulative wrt input cargos
15:35:40 <andythenorth> I wondered about that
15:35:57 <andythenorth> I don't want to give players too much info. They don't need it, it doesn't affect game play
15:36:14 <planetmaker> Or one could skip the detailed math examples completely
15:37:12 <planetmaker> "\98Cargo production:\0D 2t per 8t iron ore delivered\0D"
15:37:12 <planetmaker> " 2t per 8t coal delivered\0D"
15:37:12 <planetmaker> " 4t per 8t scrap metal delivered\0D"
15:37:12 <planetmaker> "\0DProduction stacks if cargos are delivered within a month of each other."
15:37:42 <planetmaker> The detailed explanation would be an issue for the manual.
15:38:43 <planetmaker> "Creates glass products such as bottles, jars and window panes"
15:39:02 <planetmaker> ^ Wouldn't "Produces glass products such as bottles, jars and wondow panes" sound better?
15:39:34 <planetmaker> I'm no native speaker, but to me factories don't "create" but "produce"
15:39:40 <andythenorth> ok I'll change those
15:40:50 <planetmaker> cement plant goes by the same rules as steel mill
15:41:25 <planetmaker> as does brewery(?)
15:42:39 <planetmaker> what's the difference between STR_INFO_POWERSTATION_0 and _1 ?
15:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> just for reference: delivering 8t coal gives you 2t steel, delivering 8t coal and 8t ore gives you 8t steel?
15:43:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes
15:43:47 <andythenorth> 50% efficiency with those two cargos
15:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and i assume scrap metal is hard to come by?
15:44:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: depends on how many scrap yards are on the map
15:44:46 <andythenorth> production for scrap yards starts out quite low
15:45:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm |<--->| this close to releasing 0.1, you can have a test for yourself soon :)
15:45:40 <andythenorth> I can make tweaks for 0.2
15:46:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes the power station texts are just different colour - to give a warning within 'n' months
15:46:55 <andythenorth> also 'Produces glass products' is that a tautology?
15:48:32 <andythenorth> merchandise? wares?
15:48:54 <planetmaker> Manufactures glass products ;-)
15:49:19 <andythenorth> Manufactures is confusing because it produces Manufacturing Supplies :)
15:49:40 <planetmaker> You're the English man. I like 'items'
15:50:20 <planetmaker> probably they mainly produce kitsch
15:50:23 <andythenorth> Otherwise a word stemmed on 'product' is used 4 times in one industry window
15:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> gnarf... my computer is too slow...
15:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm compiling wine and it takes ages
15:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> people telling me it gets faster with ccache, but it doesn't seem to do so
15:50:51 <peter1138> although glassware generally refers to drinking implements
15:51:08 <andythenorth> "This industry produces stuff"
15:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds about right :)
15:51:24 * andythenorth renames *all* FIRS cargos to 'stuff'
15:51:28 <planetmaker> sources of shards
15:51:33 <andythenorth> that'll make vehicle refits easier
15:51:47 <peter1138> randomise to item, stuff and thing
15:52:04 <planetmaker> Don't forget *something* and *anything*
15:52:14 <planetmaker> maybe also *nothing*
15:52:27 <andythenorth> I suppose for gameplay reasons, we could have 'stuff' and 'black stuff' (coal, oil')
15:52:38 * andythenorth ponders a FIRS easter eff
15:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> on easter you transport "red eggs", "black eggs" etc.?
15:53:23 <planetmaker> not when ignited or burnt down
15:53:42 <Sevalecan> planetmaker: which, of course, is the form they usually want it delivered in
15:53:58 <peter1138> you have coal delivered burning?
15:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Sevalecan: around here, coal is brown...
15:55:00 <planetmaker> And Kohl is either green, yellow or purple
15:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: around here, the "green" Kohl is also brown :)
15:57:36 <peter1138> i suppose snow isn't white either
15:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> not currently, no :)
16:00:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but "regional" should only be in my town, otherwise "Grünkohl"
16:00:40 <planetmaker> but... it's actually green ;-)
16:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "regional" stretches out pretty far...
16:01:06 <planetmaker> well... as I know, Braunschweig is where it's Braunkohl and elsewhere it's Grünkohl.
16:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i heard the expression in the eastern Harz region
16:01:54 <planetmaker> but wiki tells otherwise. It's wrong! ;-)
16:03:05 <planetmaker> peter1138, thx for the midi error explanation.
16:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, Kohl can have many more colours
16:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> white, for example
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16:05:06 <Ammler> is it possible to distribute midi "patches" with the set?
16:05:12 <planetmaker> yup. Or any, if exposed to the interior of a paint bottle
16:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and "red" Kohl can even change colour depending on pH of the water :)
16:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's why it's also called "blue" Kohl in some regions)
16:15:17 <Belugas> but... so useless to do, in the end...
16:15:49 <OwenS> It was lovely to find a mouse arse sitting on the floor when I came in. Lovely
16:17:31 <OwenS> Also: Chemistry experiments involving either Conc Acid or Ammonia suck (Both stink). Experiments involving both suck more; the ensuing cloud of dense smoke is horrendous
16:19:04 <OwenS> (Though it is fun to have a smoking sink)
16:20:55 * Belugas is listening to Bloody Time Zones - Hard Castle
16:22:38 <OwenS> Hmm... Do the errors in the NoAI debug window have to be in red? The reason I say this being that it makes them really difficult to read..
16:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is "conc acid"?
16:25:13 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Concentrated acid
16:25:36 <OwenS> I'm being generic about the acid involved here, because most like to emit their gaseous form quite liberally...
16:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> why not say that in the first place, instead of confusing all people speaking a foreign language?
16:26:07 <OwenS> Because I'm so used to saying conc instead of concentrated; I didn't even spot it.
16:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> which is 80% of people here...
16:26:42 <OwenS> I probably confused most of the 20% with it as a first language too
16:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> don't english people make "." at abbreviations?
16:27:10 <OwenS> When speaking more formally, yes
16:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> does the term "butter acid" mean anything to english speaking people?
16:28:19 <Belugas> is it a derivative of lactic acid?
16:28:46 <DJ_Nekkid> Eddi|zuHause: it does to norwegians
16:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it's the worst stinking of them all :)
16:31:19 <OwenS> Hehe. Something to stay well away from. Like Hydrogen Sulfide :p
16:34:38 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.1 will be quite incompatible with earlier nightlies. Break save games, maybe blow up ottd.
16:34:43 <andythenorth> Should I bump the grf id?
16:35:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, it's the safe way and will avoid trouble
16:36:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the grfid is in makefile.config, hg doesn't seem to see it
16:36:43 <andythenorth> or maybe it does
16:36:54 <planetmaker> Might not be used in the (p)nfo...
16:37:35 <planetmaker> hm, it *should* work
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17:33:50 <planetmaker> Rubidium: TrueBrain I'd like to use -RC3 in bananas...
17:35:04 <Ammler> planetmaker: check nutracks, that is rc3
17:36:25 <planetmaker> I can't check it. Not an openttdcoop newgrf
17:37:47 <Ammler> oh, well, you can define RC3 with custom version and use the same as in the grf in dec
17:37:49 <planetmaker> anyway... let's try r19446 as minimum version
17:38:23 <planetmaker> r600 can now only be downloaded with RC2 ;-)
17:38:44 <Ammler> was never meant to be public, btw....
17:40:10 <planetmaker> Well, yes, it was ;-)
17:42:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: use -RC2, they are identical
17:43:07 <TrueBrain> and otherwise, indeed, custom values
17:44:16 <OwenS> Hmm... Should I add a SIGNAL_STATE_BROKEN, for indicating broken programmable signals (I'd need graphics first, however :P )
17:47:10 <andythenorth> FIRS....0.1 released :)
17:50:58 <andythenorth> much help given :)
17:51:04 <andythenorth> much help needed :P
17:52:08 <OwenS> OK... Can someone familiar with the saveload code please tell me how I'm supposed to bail out of loading a broken savegame?
17:53:16 <OwenS> Hmm... actually... cleaning up after a bad load is gonna be quite difficult...
17:53:31 <OwenS> Or actually not... phew
17:53:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19503 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Feature: Sort industries alphabetically at the smallmap legend.
17:55:10 <andythenorth> saves me screwing with IDs for the same effect
17:56:58 <Rubidium> ofcourse it doesn't magically work for 1.0.0
17:57:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: but as you are a wizzard...
17:58:22 <peter1138> # a wizzard's staff has a knob on the end
17:59:49 <OwenS> The guy on the forums complaining about his OpenTTD binary's size should see my 54MB one...
18:00:21 <Rubidium> OwenS: oh my 200 KiB link time warning about a single line of code
18:00:49 <OwenS> Rubidium: Were you playing with Boost or something? :P
18:01:29 <Rubidium> OwenS: no, just with gcc+lto+openttd
18:02:37 <OwenS> Wait a minute... GOLD just decides to concatenate all of the include paths? O_O
18:03:45 <DorpsGek> davis: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 34 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Brianetta> I thought it was odd that they were selling rabbits in late November 2009, until I looked more closely and saw that they were reindeer
18:04:33 <Rubidium> OwenS: yeah, something like that... even files that don't know about the code that's being triggered in any way
18:04:52 * OwenS hopes libllvm-gold.so is smarter
18:07:25 <Rubidium> and I'm not sure whether it's gold or just LTO
18:08:30 <OwenS> (or whatever its called)
18:15:11 <OwenS> Opera's graphics designers must be busy. They redesign it for every release...
18:22:20 <OwenS> 10.5 isn't available for Linux yet :(
18:43:25 * PeterT wonders if it is time to release his merged CargoDist and IS2
18:44:15 * andythenorth hates the character limit on Bananas
18:44:51 * TrueBrain hates the characters which want to reach the limit on BaNaNaS :p
18:44:53 <PeterT> I need to wait until IS2 is updated again
18:45:15 <TrueBrain> how much di you try to type?
18:45:29 <andythenorth> I normally end up with about 1000 chars and have to edit
18:45:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19504 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt danish.txt):
18:45:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 changes by Kayos
18:45:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by silentStatic
18:45:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by
18:45:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by
18:49:40 * andythenorth tries telegraph-ese
18:50:55 <Sacro> Hello Prof_Frink STOP How are you STOP
18:52:54 <andythenorth> –....–––....–––––....
18:53:14 <andythenorth> 495 chars...I win
18:53:37 <andythenorth> bananas disagrees and awards me fail
18:53:56 <andythenorth> which is more likely to be good at counting? Bananas or my text editor :P
18:53:59 <PeterT> andythenorth: FIRS 0.1!!!!!!!!!!!
18:54:29 <Sacro> andythenorth: that's not valid morse code
18:54:54 <andythenorth> does bananas count linebreaks or something?
18:55:20 <Terkhen> omitallspaces!thetextisstillreadable
18:55:53 <glx> but be happy it doesn't use windows EOL ;)
18:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> do telegrams actually still exist?
18:57:45 * andythenorth wonders about some kind of 'enhanced' info section for bananas.
18:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen one since the early 90's
18:58:14 <Prof_Frink> Wotcha Sacro STOP Pretty good, went to Font last weekend STOP
18:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't "," also be a "STOP"?
18:58:51 * andythenorth has not been climbing for too long. just nfo and baby poop around here
19:00:26 * Prof_Frink hasn't been proper climbing since the 6th
19:00:35 <Prof_Frink> Just plastic, ice and blodders.
19:01:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then head off for the next gymnasium ;-)
19:03:49 * andythenorth is tired. getting a release done was....work :o
19:04:08 * PeterT does an action, just to compete with andythenorth
19:04:26 <andythenorth> PeterT: does your grf work in game yet?
19:04:34 <PeterT> haven't tested it, still
19:05:11 <andythenorth> PeterT: change one thing, compile, test, rinse, repeat
19:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> HAHA... apparently the american army has to rework its education, because all the recruits are totally spoiled by 3d shooters, and have a totally wrong assumption on how battle works
19:06:45 <PeterT> andythenorth: very strange, the name of the GRF in-game is "tscets"
19:06:52 <Jolteon> what, real life isn't pick up gun, pull trigger, and kill. Eddi|zuHause? D:
19:06:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what? You don't respawn when you're killed?
19:07:22 <Jolteon> 'He was on your side, moron!' 'Don't worry, he'll respawn any moment now'
19:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also, people seem to understand technic of guns better, but lack physical skills...
19:07:29 <Jolteon> 'aaaaany moment now......'
19:07:50 <Jolteon> '...or hum, maybe this is a no respawn world?'
19:08:09 <PeterT> andythenorth: it probably won't appear, I have no introduction date set
19:08:19 <PeterT> andythenorth: Also, this has encouraged me to try AI coding
19:08:39 <andythenorth> PeterT: so set an intro date ;)
19:09:10 <PeterT> andythenorth: Action0, correct?
19:09:20 <andythenorth> yes prop 00 for trains
19:09:30 <andythenorth> you get handy escapes, which is nice
19:09:30 <andythenorth> 00 \w01-01-1950 // date of introduction
19:09:49 <andythenorth> otherwise you have to calculate days since year 0, then turn that into a word. not hard, but tedious
19:10:20 <PeterT> where can I learn more about escapes on the wiki?
19:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: you can also use long format date, which is necessary for pre-1920 introduction
19:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a different property
19:11:30 <andythenorth> PeterT: for RVs I always set both dates, just in case...
19:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a slightly different escape, too
19:11:57 <PeterT> is that format DD-MM-YYYY?
19:12:21 <andythenorth> PeterT: look in that page I sent you above ;)
19:13:32 <PeterT> Silence - I guess everyone is hiding their GRFs...
19:14:44 * andythenorth is just waiting to hear your grf works in game :P
19:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd use YYYY-MM-DD
19:15:15 <PeterT> andythenorth: I'm encoding, but I got an error
19:15:44 <PeterT> Encoding in temporary file cets.new
19:15:44 <PeterT> Loading SPRITES\class20.pcxpressed:100% (Transparency:100%, Redundancy:100%
19:15:44 <PeterT> Error: Sprite y extends beyond end of PCX file.
19:15:44 <PeterT> File has 24 lines, sprite wants 0..25
19:15:55 <andythenorth> paste your action 1
19:16:00 <andythenorth> and all the real sprites
19:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly mixed up X and Y values
19:17:11 <PeterT> I just pasted them from the wiki
19:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> take the values from the PCX...
19:18:50 <andythenorth> PeterT: the pcx is only 24px high. You've got a couple of y values of 26
19:19:03 <PeterT> that must be a bug on the wiki then!
19:19:12 <PeterT> since you have the same templates as Pikka
19:19:19 <andythenorth> don't get caught out by the way: y and x dimensions are not in normal order (y is first)
19:19:50 <andythenorth> just change the 26 to 24 on the 4th bytes of sprites 4 and 8
19:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that doesn't mean the template wasn't moved around within the GRF...
19:21:25 <PeterT> andythenorth: It's working
19:21:32 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, that's true
19:21:48 <andythenorth> PeterT: got it in game?
19:22:30 <PeterT> now the name is "4 0101cets"
19:23:43 * PeterT is a bit worried that Action0 is before sprites/*.pcx is loaded
19:23:48 <PeterT> andythenorth: It "works"?
19:24:03 <andythenorth> action 0 before real sprites is fine
19:24:04 <PeterT> I mean, I've changed the vehicle with the ID I've set
19:24:04 <planetmaker> [20:19] <PeterT> since you have the same templates as Pikka <-- I'm pretty sure those templates fit. At least they don't give glitches here when I copied them 1:1 a few days back
19:24:24 <PeterT> but the sprites are the same
19:24:32 <PeterT> it's just in a different order
19:25:19 <PeterT> planetmaker: Maybe andythenorth changed them when he gave me his BROS sprites
19:25:39 <planetmaker> yes, that may well be
19:25:46 <andythenorth> those are taken from the bros guys....I don't know what they use :)
19:25:53 <planetmaker> All I'm saying is: the original templates work for me
19:26:07 <andythenorth> don't obsess about it right now, you're just learning the importance of getting a good template before starting
19:26:22 <PeterT> Did you read what I wrote about the GRF in-game?
19:26:24 <planetmaker> I haven't tested all, but 6/8, 7/8, 8/8 and 9/8 look nice
19:26:30 <andythenorth> I learnt about templates the hard way, even though Zephyris warned me :|
19:26:46 <planetmaker> hehe @ andythenorth
19:26:52 <OwenS> "Generated ProgSig-545263f-r19504.diff" :-D
19:26:52 <planetmaker> I guess we all do at some stage
19:27:04 <OwenS> (Just some code cleanups, mind)
19:27:07 <PeterT> OwenS: Can you link me to your repo again?
19:27:28 <PeterT> OwenS: and/or post the link in the first post on the forum
19:29:13 <andythenorth> PeterT: your grfid looks weird. It's bytes, but in quotes.
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19:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: grf-id can be a 4-letter string ("abcd") or a 4-byte sequence (01 02 03 04), or a mixture of both
19:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but not bytes in quotes :)
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19:36:40 <PeterT> how does it know when the bytes begin/end
19:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> everything that is not in quotes is a byte
19:37:14 <PeterT> what if you want something longer?
19:37:20 <planetmaker> 4 bytes. And a byte can be a letter
19:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: pssst! :p
19:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: an ID can't be longer
19:38:19 * planetmaker wantd something like \grfid(exp(i\pi))
19:38:22 <PeterT> I must be misunderstanding something
19:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: the ID is a number so the game can identify two grfs as the same
19:39:08 <PeterT> I've seen ID's that are longer than four
19:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of longer, and what do you think an ID is?
19:42:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'ID' can mean several things when coding nfo
19:42:17 <PeterT> 59450200 is the GRF ID I'm looking at now
19:42:22 <PeterT> which is longer than 4
19:42:24 <andythenorth> would always say grf ID
19:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's 4 bytes
19:42:31 <andythenorth> PeterT: that is 4 bytes
19:42:36 <andythenorth> a byte is two character
19:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> a byte is two hex-digits
19:42:53 <andythenorth> that is actually a dword
19:43:06 <andythenorth> PeterT: face palm happens a lot when working with bytecode
19:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> m( <-- the facepalm smilie
19:43:59 * andythenorth ponders updating HEQS
19:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: one release wasn't enough? :)
19:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make cargo trams in HEQS!
19:44:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: no
19:44:48 <andythenorth> I've decided cargo trams have too many issues
19:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: YES!
19:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of issues?
19:45:31 <andythenorth> assembling trains is sucky with RVs
19:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do you have graphics?
19:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> can you make some for me? :)
19:46:36 * andythenorth ponders an industrial narrow gauge set where the player can choose to have the same sprites as trains or trams
19:46:49 <andythenorth> but not interchangeable :|
19:47:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: got an RL sources?
19:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i might try to get some useful coding done, but i need the graphics
19:47:30 * andythenorth might do cargo trams if we can patch for ships with two separate cargo compartments
19:47:40 <andythenorth> as a trade-trade
19:47:42 <PeterT> andythenorth: did you see my PM?
19:47:50 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you might start as FISH started: nice little boxes ;-)
19:48:02 <andythenorth> PeterT: nope sorry
19:48:37 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19505 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Codechange: silence a gcc<4.2 warning
19:49:06 * andythenorth ponders adding some ideas to openttd wiki.
19:49:13 <andythenorth> forum suggestions is a bit of a graveyard
19:49:57 <andythenorth> not ideas so much as specs for possible features. ideas are easy
19:50:04 <andythenorth> design is not :|
19:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking about one engine 4/8 and 4,9 or 15 wagons of 3/8: 4+4*3=16 (1 Tile), 4+9*3=31 (2 Tiles), 4+15*3=49 (3 Tiles)
19:57:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would you be using refits on invisible wagons, or vehicles in the buy menu for each length
19:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> where the number of wagons is set by refit
19:58:00 <andythenorth> what happens when one vehicle runs up against the invisible rear of another?
19:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can fit 16 vehicles of length 1/8 on one tile
19:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and show only every 4th wagon
19:58:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: post a link if you find any RL pictures of what you're thinking
20:14:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so how do these trams fit into gameplay?
20:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> short distance low-space transportation?
20:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (e.g. feeder services)
20:15:38 <andythenorth> refittable to any cargo?
20:21:40 * frosch123 hates commit messages
20:22:23 <PeterT> frosch123: what is wrong with them?
20:22:49 * frosch123 hates writing commit messages
20:23:42 <PeterT> if you really commit to i.....see what I did there?
20:24:03 * Terkhen agrees wholeheartedly
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20:25:48 * andythenorth hadn't thought of tramways for general farm produce. sugar cane...yes. other stuff...no
20:25:49 <TrueBrain> Terkhen / frosch123: you should start a myspace page about it
20:26:39 <frosch123> i already have enough space here
20:27:20 <Terkhen> I prefer traditional grumbling too
20:28:20 * andythenorth ponders roadtypes
20:29:04 <Yexo> planetmaker: yes, the ttdpatch wiki has no page for action0 airports yet
20:29:10 <Yexo> but here are no defined properties either
20:30:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19506 /trunk/src/ (road_func.h station_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Tunnels, bridges and roadstops are build with only one roadtype.
20:30:07 <planetmaker> oh right. I saw that one could now at least disable airports... so :-)
20:31:06 <Yexo> hmm, right, there are a few properties now indeed :)
20:36:21 <andythenorth> Terkhen: which is the problem there? The 'cheat', or the industry placement?
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20:39:23 <Terkhen> neither, it's funny that a line fits there :P
20:39:34 <andythenorth> did you build that or the game?
20:39:45 <andythenorth> (the industries)
20:40:12 * andythenorth recommends Yexo's tile clearance code for industry placement
20:40:20 <andythenorth> Terkhen: expected
20:40:41 <andythenorth> I can prevent it, but doing it right is a lot of work. Patching trunk for it is about 7 lines IIRC
20:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that sounds about right :)
20:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd go for electric
20:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if road vehicles can emit steam puffs
20:44:34 <andythenorth> not right now. but they should :o
20:44:41 <andythenorth> an old topic, discussed many times
20:44:50 <andythenorth> probably on the german forum too 9.9
20:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i very vaguely remember such discussions, but i think it was in the english forum
20:46:39 <andythenorth> smoke for RVs and ships comes up every now and then
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21:45:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I found more tramway style locos
22:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> see, there is plenty of inspiration around :)
22:08:09 <andythenorth> 16 km / h seems to be a fair top speed :|
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22:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the year, i presume
22:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the EL 3 that i posted at first makes 50km/h
22:10:52 <andythenorth> but performance of electric locos seems to be pretty good even back to 1900s (from what little I know)
22:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it was used for hauling big loads of coal from the open mines to the distribution facilities and power stations in the region
22:11:04 <andythenorth> so that would be useful
22:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so maybe in 1910 a 16km/h version, in 1930 a 30km/h version and in 1950 a 50 km/h version
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22:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell do i have a "train_cmd.c.rej"?
22:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> --- train_cmd.c (revision 7490)
22:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the date is dec 2009
22:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think there's a bug in the acceleration calculation... max_te should be reduced when on slopes...
22:25:13 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: maybe you tried to apply a very old patch last december?
22:25:41 <OwenS> train_cmd.c? Thats *ancient* :P
22:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yeah, most likely
22:26:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19507 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: remove semicolon after DECLARE_POSTFIX_INCREMENT and DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET
22:26:09 <OwenS> And wouldn't you get lots of .rej's? :P
22:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> max_te is the resulting force of (adhesive weight) * (friction factor)
22:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but on slopes it should be (adhesive weight)*(friction factor)*(cos(angle))
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22:28:25 <OwenS> my gitk is starting to look interesting :P
22:30:34 * OwenS notes CmdLandscpeClear down as a place that probably needs to do a check for the presence of progsigs on a tile
22:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> one compile of wine with ccache
22:36:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19508 /trunk/src/network/core/ (tcp_content.cpp udp.cpp): -Codechange: remove semicolon after DEFINE_UNAVAILABLE_CONTENT_RECEIVE_COMMAND and DEFINE_UNAVAILABLE_UDP_RECEIVE_COMMAND
22:36:45 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Considering orudge's job... I feel sorry for him :p
22:37:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19509 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove superfluous semicolons after function definitions
22:39:02 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: He works at CodeWeavers on CrossOver office... aka, a version of Wine
22:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i presume they have faster computers
22:40:31 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Probably. But WINE is still a horrid build
22:44:33 <andythenorth> tramway wagon capacity seems to be 1ton-3ton
22:45:20 <andythenorth> 16*30 would give 480t train weight, not too bad :)
22:45:30 <andythenorth> or at the smaller end....16t :o
22:45:52 <andythenorth> I'd propose 'light' and 'heavy' tramway locos, with costs to match
22:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 30t per wagon seems a little high, if you compare it to DBSet wagons, which are (visually) way longer
22:47:05 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Since when was an OpenTTD road to scale with an OpenTTD rail?
22:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: since i want it to be...
22:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the whole dilemma starts with the GermanRV set which has cargo trams, but their capacity is way too low for their size, and they aren't available after 1950
22:48:22 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19510 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (50 files): -Codechange: remove superfluous semicolons from *.sq files
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22:55:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 30t is too high
22:55:44 <andythenorth> but 15 might be acceptable
22:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe even lower, like 10 or 8
22:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> or incease over time. the 1910 model 5t, the 1930 model 8t and the 1950 model 12t per wagon
23:00:23 <andythenorth> I would have two models of locomotive, with matching wagons. Low cap and high. All stats evolving over time. Pretty much the same as the no. 6 and no.8 bulldozers in HEQS.
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