IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-03-06
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00:38:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r19330 /trunk/src/newgrf_airport.h: -Cleanup: remove the now unused 'oilrig' from AirportSpec
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01:59:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r19331 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.h openttd.cpp station_cmd.cpp):
01:59:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: when deleting an airport the size from the AirportSpec was used instead of the stored airport size
01:59:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix (r19319): detecting if a plane was landed at an airport failed
01:59:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: reset the airporttile mapping when restarting a game
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03:29:57 <Starn> Ah I would be. But I went to bed around 2pm... Woke up at 8. My time.
03:30:31 <PeterT> Actually, I think I'll be heading off to bed right now
03:30:57 <Starn> I am gonna work on my song some more.
03:32:00 <Starn> Hard to make a midi sound good. ;)
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04:33:32 <Starn> what is the longest length a bridge can be?
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04:46:24 <DaleStan> Starn: Depends on the bridge type and the bridge set loaded.
04:47:35 <Starn> i think its all japanese sets i am using and i am trying for more than 418 length bridge.
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05:14:27 <DanMacK> wrong channel... oops :P
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06:51:46 <Starn> how come when i try to play OpenTTD online it messes up my connection to the Internet it will start disconnecting and reconnecting until i restart my router every time i try playing online
06:52:05 <Starn> you can email me answer at stanton.e@gmail.com if i get disconnected again.
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07:52:22 <dih> that is commit per minute :-P
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09:50:29 <planetmaker> good morning Terkhen
09:50:38 <planetmaker> and also good morning all others :-)
09:54:21 * roboboy feeds some cheese into planetmaker's CD drive
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10:06:55 <Starn> I'm extremely sad now. Every thing related to IRC i use to use is out of date by nearly 10 years.........
10:07:55 <planetmaker> time passes, you know ;-) And it's good
10:08:15 <Alberth> think about all the new stuff waiting to be discovered by you
10:08:42 <planetmaker> ^ that's the positive attitude :-)
10:08:43 <Starn> Even the things for mIRC is out of date most upto date crap i can find addon/script/theme wise is 2005 lol
10:09:07 <planetmaker> "the only constant is the change itself"
10:09:27 <Starn> would the older stuff work on windows 7 64bit? so far mIRC is working....
10:10:16 <roboboy> 64bit shouldn't be a prob unless the software is 16bit
10:11:02 <dih> a lot of other stuff is constant too
10:11:17 <dih> i.e. the fact that ms sells crap :-P
10:11:32 <dih> the fact that apple mucks up their api with each new release
10:11:39 <planetmaker> Though I don't generally subscribe to that either. :-)
10:11:57 <planetmaker> (both statements are grossly general :-P)
10:12:02 <Starn> tempted to go back to linux and just use irssi...
10:12:08 * planetmaker tries to defend desperately the 'no' ;-)
10:12:22 <dih> yes, way to go - in order to use a decent irc client, we move back to linux
10:12:23 * Starn pokes planetmaker to throw him off
10:13:18 <Starn> well win7 is primarly my gamer/multimedia system.. and my linux is just sitting there getting dust...
10:14:34 <planetmaker> that sounds like a user error ;-)
10:15:12 <Starn> i play alot of games where they ban you if you're on linux...
10:15:41 <planetmaker> that sounds like a peer-group error :-P
10:15:56 <Starn> the american Army.. and punkbuster lol
10:16:45 * roboboy ponders trying to play Tube
10:16:51 * planetmaker is basically sick of "this OS is 'better'" - and uses at least three on a daily basis
10:17:10 <roboboy> which do you think is better?
10:17:24 <Starn> brb installing polaris X only thing i could find the reminds me of the past and looks like its easy to use like the old school stuff
10:17:28 <planetmaker> Depends on the task at hand, roboboy :-)
10:17:33 <Starn> i think all are eqaully great
10:17:48 <planetmaker> All equally suck ;-)
10:17:52 <Starn> though if your into hacking i don't suggest windows..
10:18:19 * roboboy likes MSDOS for somethings
10:18:49 <planetmaker> somewhere below my roof there's a box with 2 5.25" disks with MSDOS 3.3...
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10:19:04 <roboboy> playing (O)TT(O)(D(P))
10:19:27 <roboboy> thats what DOS is good for
10:19:37 <planetmaker> for OpenTTD it *might* not be the best choice, even if it works ;-)
10:19:55 <roboboy> if I could get it on the net id use it for IRC
10:20:09 <roboboy> yeah OpenTTD is best not run under DOS
10:20:30 <roboboy> unless someone gets it to have network support
10:20:50 <planetmaker> That's afaik a DOS issue there, not OpenTTD one
10:21:16 <roboboy> yeah as there is no standard TCP/IP stack for DOS
10:22:16 <roboboy> you could try and target trumpet which is from my knowledge pretty standard and pretty similar to the berkley sockets standard
10:23:06 * roboboy wonders why Win TTD uses a different palette to DOS TTD
10:24:05 <planetmaker> probably 'hysterical raisins' [TM]
10:25:29 <roboboy> I wonder if the Win version of OpenGFX would work under DOS OTTD
10:26:07 <planetmaker> the name "dos palette" and "win palette" has nothing to do with the OS it is run under.
10:26:14 <roboboy> thats what I would think
10:26:18 <planetmaker> Just... historical reasons for the names
10:27:21 <roboboy> so why change the pallete? Wouldn't that have meant extra work that is theoretically unneeded
10:27:55 <roboboy> unless directx didn't like the DOS palette
10:28:29 <Starn> probably what it was roboboy
10:28:35 <planetmaker> roboboy: who knows :-)
10:29:21 <roboboy> but then OpenTTD shouldn't be able to use the DOS files on windows, so that can't be it
10:29:56 <planetmaker> roboboy: you might need to investigate old 1st generation VGA cards probably in order to find out ;-)
10:32:49 <roboboy> dont both palettes offer exactly the same core colours?
10:33:27 <planetmaker> the DOS palette has more
10:34:15 <roboboy> I thought the windows Palette had more
10:45:45 <Starn> So.. I totally scrapped my music project and have started over again.. I found it to be to fitting for roleplaying games.
10:47:58 <dih> <Starn> i play alot of games where they ban you if you're on linux... <- you just play a lot of games with the wrong people
10:49:08 <Starn> dih: lol yea no joke well its mainly punkbuster whom ban me and other anticheat people saying invalid windows API under linux most games i run are under wine.
10:49:32 <ccfreak2k> That's because PunkBuster sucks.
10:49:51 <Starn> ccfreak2k: i agree so much. I
10:50:05 <Starn> I've been looking for ways to shut them down legally.
10:51:55 <Starn> Holy Crap. I wish I had dual monitors back when i used IRC daily! This is rather useful.
10:51:59 <dih> do elaborate... while i go get some popcorn
10:55:05 <Starn> well dih. About a year ago they banned me from every game that used PB even games that was just bought they did this on false terms at that. So I am sure you know my fustration with them? I've Resolved these issues after 4 months of fighting them. They are technically a hack anyways. So if its bad to use hacks shouldnt it be bad to use them as well?
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10:56:53 <Rubidium> so... just play OpenTTD all day. It's a lot cheaper
10:57:14 <Starn> Rubidium. pretty much what i am doing
10:57:21 <Rubidium> and doesn't discriminate between people running it on Windows or on wine (or on reactos)
10:58:09 <Starn> I think openTTD has won my heart over even Starcraft.
10:59:14 <dih> yeha - people dont go irate here if they have been fraged :-P
10:59:56 <Starn> Hmm. I am setting up an Sandbox game in openTTD. And I was wondering is there a list of usful options somewhere?
11:04:17 * roboboy goes to fidle with his test pc
11:05:15 <dih> Starn, i suggest you have a look at the openttd website, and inspect some of the links you can find
11:06:50 <Alberth> 'useful' depends on your playing style
11:07:48 <Starn> I'm Expermenting on building the Perfect railway with no traffic jams...
11:08:00 <planetmaker> Starn: the 'advanced settings' show you a list of 'useful' options :-)
11:08:26 <planetmaker> just make sure that you get them all. Otherwise a cat ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg helps :-P
11:08:35 <Starn> yea i been toyin with that planetmaker also toyin with cheats in my sandbox save :D
11:08:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19333 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19328): int versus uint comparison warning fixed.
11:08:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19332 /trunk/src/ (mixer.cpp mixer.h sound.cpp): -Codechange: Simplify sound panning by using float data, and switch to sinusoidal algorithm to maintain output level.
11:09:07 * planetmaker just found out that a sound base set is not very similar to grfs...
11:10:36 <planetmaker> mainly the assumption that any wav file mentioned in the source is a dependency doesn't hold :S
11:11:58 <planetmaker> must be caused by the direct democracy there :-P
11:12:50 <dih> <Starn> I'm Expermenting on building the Perfect railway with no traffic jams... <- now that's something nobody attempted :-P
11:13:21 <Starn> lol i know i've seen some of them a lot of great work
11:14:01 <Starn> my issue is i like big big big networks that are seemingly impossible to not have issues in.
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11:15:43 <Alberth> disabling breakdowns helps a lot :p
11:18:29 <Alberth> hmm, if you build a dedicated track for each train, you'd have no traffic jams
11:19:01 <Starn> thats how my none sandbox game is setup direct links no junctions or anything.
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11:55:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19334 /trunk/src/ (base_station_base.h station.cpp): -Codechange: method-call codestyle fixes, and introduction of const reference formal parameter.
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12:15:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19335 /trunk/src/ (base_station_base.h station.cpp): -Codechange: StationRect::BeforeAddTile() returns a CommandCost.
12:20:19 <Starn> yay i made my first large scale railroad network with no jams!
12:22:03 <roboboy> is there anywhere I should put a guide to running OpenTTD under DOS?
12:22:16 <roboboy> would it be suitable on the wiki?
12:22:42 <roboboy> it works out of the box in DOSBox
12:22:43 <Starn> sorry i missed read question.
12:23:07 * roboboy wonders what the best section would be
12:23:12 <PeterT> roboboy: yes, on the wiki
12:23:19 <roboboy> and where to link to it from
12:23:20 <PeterT> roboboy: wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Dos
12:23:21 <Rubidium> roboboy: works is 'ofcourse' an overstatement
12:23:29 <Starn> my railroad network is alot like nascar lol one one way to turn
12:23:44 <roboboy> but it starts and is playable
12:24:36 <Starn> would it work on modern system such as windows 7 pro 64bit?
12:24:57 <roboboy> I had to install DOSLFN and disable MM386 or whatever it is
12:25:09 <roboboy> I run it on there as well
12:25:19 <Starn> alright sounds like its worth looking into.
12:25:31 <Starn> i only have TTD and openTTD though.
12:27:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19336 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move rail speed limit to its own function.
12:28:31 <Rubidium> roboboy: you mean long filenames now 'just' work?
12:29:31 * peter1138 wonders how to fix bitmap fonts
12:29:58 <peter1138> the metrics we use are only available for scalable fonts
12:30:48 <roboboy> Long Filenames don't just work for old programs not written to use them but new programs written to use them just work
12:35:37 <Starn> If you're to make a portable version of openTTD how would you make it not creat a folder in my documents folder?
12:36:42 <Starn> :( awe no kissing back lol
12:41:30 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19337 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Create the GroundVehicle class.
12:42:06 <roboboy> Starn, OpenTTD uses the OS'es API to decide where my documents is so if the OS doesnt have an API for it, then it wont create it and ofcourse the devs can tell OpenTTD if a system has a my documents folder or not
12:43:05 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19338 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Move the acceleration cache to GroundVehicle.
12:43:27 <Rubidium> oh for crying out loud... does *anyone* *ever* *read* the *readme* *before* asking it for the nth time?
12:43:27 <Starn> dang. every system i know has this..
12:44:43 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19339 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move acceleration functions to GroundVehicle.
12:45:58 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19340 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.hpp: -Documentation: Add a list of required functions to GroundVehicle.
12:48:53 <Starn> i am happy my network can handle 8 trains so far with only 4 tracks in some areas.
12:51:06 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19341 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
12:51:06 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move GOINGUP/GOINGDOWN flags to GroundVehicle.
12:51:06 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move GetSlopeResistance to GroundVehicle.
12:51:27 <Starn> the least amount of tracks in southren section of map is 2 tracks and 5 stops and east and west are 4 tracks and northen hops around from 2-4 and about 100k in signels.
12:51:59 <Starn> for every track is connected
12:52:16 <PeterT> Do you have a screenshot?
12:52:54 <Starn> no but i can try fitting it all into one screen i doubt this happening for it goes to the very top of map and to the very bottem.
12:52:56 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19342 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move inclination update functions to GroundVehicle.
12:53:28 <Starn> i can take screen shot of a couple of sections where track merges into either depot or train station for sure..
12:53:59 <Starn> its a very basic layout.
12:54:54 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19343 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.cpp roadveh.h saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp):
12:54:54 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make RoadVehicle a child class of GroundVehicle.
12:54:54 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Add: Required acceleration functions at RoadVehicle.
12:55:11 <Starn> it takes the direct line idea and throws in some turns to merge them basically.
12:56:07 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19344 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: RoadVehicle uses UpdateInclination instead of its own function.
12:56:47 <Starn> i am sure nearly every one can make this.. i am still fairly new so to speak. sure i use to play TTD when it was new but still i consider my self a noob
12:57:10 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19345 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Realistic acceleration for road vehicles.
12:58:46 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19346 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Configurable slope steepness for road vehicles from 0% to 10%, default is 7%.
12:59:41 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19347 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Add: Vehicle GUI now shows power, weight and tractive effort for road vehicles.
12:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen roads with 20% inclination...
12:59:57 <Noldo> Terkhen: congrats on the commit access
13:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess at this point it is too late to change the newgrf specs to split tractive effort into adhesive weight and friction coefficient?
13:02:35 <roboboy> Rubidium, should I upload your bundle for DOS OpenTTD to a website somewhere or can I link to the link you gave me from my tutorial for the wiki?
13:03:29 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19348 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp settings.cpp): -Add: Allow to sort road vehicles by power and by power vs running cost at the engine preview window.
13:04:30 <Ammler> the intro game on RC2 looks like it runs already quite a long time
13:04:37 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19349 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] AIs can get the power, weight and tractive effort of a road vehicle.
13:05:06 <Ammler> for example the buses are close
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13:06:41 <Starn> [PeterT | tracks to and back? ] Yes sorta some turn around some don't its a gaint loop also. think nascar with the ability to turn around.
13:07:43 <KenjiE20> you can turn around in Nascar, only you normally end up in a pileup :P
13:08:28 <PeterT> Yexo: How did you change your nick on #openttd.notice?
13:08:49 <Yexo> register yourself with nickserv and then use identify to change your nick
13:09:12 <Yexo> /msg nickserv help identify
13:09:15 <PeterT> /msg NickServ identify PeterT <password>?
13:09:36 <Starn> PeterT i am uploading some screenies of this basic railroad system. its been running for about 18 years with no crashes i gave up on trying to make them go one direction.
13:10:15 <Ammler> and I have no breakdown so far
13:10:25 <Ammler> might it be possible, that is disabled?
13:10:35 <Starn> there is signels every 14 car train length
13:12:38 <Starn> am i allowed to post links to image shack?
13:13:52 <Alberth> Ammler: from the competition first post: Breakdowns will automatically be disabled, so try the game with breakdowns disabled.
13:14:17 <Alberth> Starn: you are allowed, but it is prefered to download onto the forum
13:14:48 <Alberth> (less annoying adds, longer availability)
13:14:48 <Starn> well this is a one time view.. than i am removing them..
13:15:06 <Starn> and turning my profile back to private.
13:15:14 <Ammler> I miss the breakdown sound :-D
13:15:29 <Starn> its for PeterT and anyone else whom wants to see my 8 trains on 2-4 tracks lol
13:15:32 <Ammler> I never hear that in my own games...
13:16:31 <Alberth> oh, not posting on the tt-forums.bet. Here, imageshack is ok
13:16:38 <PeterT> Oh, those types of PBS...
13:17:23 <Alberth> except you need to allow scripts for the site to work
13:18:05 <Starn> ah i use firefox and noscript addon and adblock i trust imageshack i've been using them since almost the day they started
13:18:24 <PeterT> <Rubidium> oh for crying out loud... does *anyone* *ever* *read* the *readme* *before* asking it for the nth time? <-- Who was that directed at?
13:18:29 <Starn> not long ago i decided to make an account with them :P
13:19:18 <Starn> I don't read the readme ;) i scan the readme and see if there is anything important to running the game :P
13:20:10 <Ammler> Starn: you only need before you ask something...
13:20:37 <PeterT> fonsinchen: You already have a crash at the alternate economy thread
13:21:13 <Ammler> and you shouldn't answer questions which are already answered in the readme.
13:23:45 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: alberth * r19350 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: StationRect::BeforeAddRect() returns a CommandCost.
13:28:23 * roboboy waits for his openttd.org registration email
13:30:26 <DJNekkid> is it possible to check if the measuring unit' option is set to Metric, imperial or SI ? (action 7/9)
13:33:52 <Starn> oh.. i'll stick to american stuff.... imperial first metric secondary
13:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> DJNekkid: no, that is a GUI settings, newgrfs cannot check those (desync hazard)
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13:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> SI stands for Système Internationale (i believe)
13:35:28 <DJNekkid> Starn: im not sure if you have tested the "nutracks", but someone pointed out that some people might want to have mph limits/texts, and not kmh..
13:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> France was the first nation to adapt the system during the french revolution
13:36:05 <roboboy> hm starting openttd results in large amounts of hard disk activity
13:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Germany adapted it during the process of unification
13:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> steadily between 1840 and 1871
13:37:03 <Doorslammer> The UK has an instance where it uses both types of speed measurement
13:37:44 <Doorslammer> The main line from Heworth to Sunderland uses MPH, whilst the light rail that also uses the line is metric
13:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, germany was a huge mess...
13:37:57 <Doorslammer> So I dunno how that can be solved in one
13:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> every german country used its own measurement system
13:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and there were like 60 of these ;)
13:38:39 <DJNekkid> always fun to watch UK cooking programs... they always say both farenheit and celcius, as well as cups/oz and mililiters, and pounds/(kilo)grams
13:39:03 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: yexo * r19351 /trunk/src/ (base_station_base.h station.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use TileArea for AfterRemoveRect
13:39:03 <Doorslammer> Gastronomic juggling
13:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "funny" to translate american cooking reciepts into german... because the americans measure in cups (volume) while the germans measure in grams (weight)
13:39:49 <glx> hmm can't remember if it's l or L
13:40:23 <glx> anyway usual measures are in cl
13:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i only see cl used for alcoholic drinks...
13:41:17 <Ammler> how many spoons is a cup?
13:41:54 <Rubidium> "imagine there is no spoon"
13:42:22 <ccfreak2k> Teaspoons or tablespoons?
13:42:45 <thingwath> It's quite hard to imagine infinite number of nothing.
13:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: last time i cooked something it said "125ml oil" or "4 spoons oil" or "300ml water"
13:43:07 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, where do you live where oil and water are the same? :)
13:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: who said "same"?
13:43:27 <glx> not the same, look at the volume
13:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: the "or" is not part of the quote, obviously, as it's not in quotes
13:44:11 <glx> and 4 spoons is clearly no 125ml
13:44:32 <ccfreak2k> glx, what's worse, it doesn't even say what size of spoon.
13:44:50 <ccfreak2k> Or if the spoon should have holes to drain out almost all of the oil before you spoon it in.
13:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: that's because i don't know what "Esslöffel" is translated
13:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there are "Esslöffel" ("EL") and "Teelöffel" ("TL")
13:46:16 <ccfreak2k> roboboy, you remember to send the check right?
13:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: maybe it didn't go through your server's greylisting yet?
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13:47:37 <roboboy> ive checked my spambox its not there
13:47:48 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> esslffel=eating spoon
13:48:01 <roboboy> its a standard gmail email address
13:48:02 <ccfreak2k> <AforAnonymous> teelffel=tea spoon
13:49:39 <roboboy> lets see if OpenTTD DOS will load OpenGFX
13:50:00 <roboboy> ive even forced it via command line since last time i tried it wasn't happy
13:51:37 <Starn> roboboy i just signed up and it sent me an email instantly i use Gmail. its topic is OpenTTD Acccount Activation use your search bar and search for it
13:52:23 <Starn> if that don't work i might suggest waiting 5 to 10 mins than asking it to resend
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14:00:31 <roboboy> hm OpenTTD Dos doesnt like OpenGFX
14:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: did you check md5sum?
14:01:22 <roboboy> I just copied a working copy from one computer to my DOS machine
14:01:45 <roboboy> it doesn't even appear in the game options drop down
14:01:47 <frosch123> filenames longer than 8 characters?
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14:02:23 <glx> the old 8.3 limitation :)
14:02:29 <DJNekkid> btw ... another question ... is there support for CC-colors on railtypes?
14:02:50 <frosch123> rail stuff is currently not recoloured at all
14:02:54 <roboboy> but I have a LFN driver for DOS that OpenTTD uses to save my savegames and screenshots
14:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: imho it's a neat to have feature
14:03:17 <DJNekkid> so ... i cant make for example a CC'ed 3rd rail?
14:03:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i posted a suggestion in the thread about it :)
14:04:44 * roboboy waits for openttd /h | more to run
14:06:35 <DJNekkid> or my "planning" tracks could be some CC-variant of the white "drag and drop" lines
14:07:32 <roboboy> shall I try and move OpenGFX out of the OpenGFX sub dir of DATA?
14:08:11 <frosch123> roboboy: you could try making the filenames shorter than 8 chars (also change them in the .obg)
14:09:32 <roboboy> will that change their md5s or do they only change if I change the actual file contents?
14:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: no, md5 is pure file content
14:12:15 * roboboy isnt in the mood for renaming all the files at the moment though
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14:16:33 <planetmaker> hm, 6 clicks and 6 edits roboboy ;-)
14:16:47 <planetmaker> well. Not on DOS. so 6 commands
14:17:21 <Ammler> roboboy: you could use the ttdpatch version
14:18:26 <roboboy> I would have to make a obg for it though, but that would be easy
14:19:01 <roboboy> can I take a screenshot of the title screen without using print screen?
14:19:53 <glx> open console, type "screenshot no_con"
14:20:40 <roboboy> im going to create some screenies for my DOS OpenTTD Guide that is a nearly finished WIP
14:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need to come up with a riddle... but i have no inspiration...
14:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> something that keeps the women busy for 10 minutes and turns out as something obscure like "bungee jumping"...
14:28:39 <roboboy> can someone recomend a random grf to test under DOS OpenTTD and for screenshot sake
14:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is this "facebook" thingy the youths nowadays is so hyped about?
14:32:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: palms are considered "not clean enough" anymore? Or doing 'it' with palms hurts more than doing 'it' with a book?
14:36:06 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, what gets wetter as it dries?
14:40:02 <PeterT> Do you need to have admin rights to move images to a different name?
14:40:15 <roboboy> my work is done for the jight/morning
14:41:17 <planetmaker> [15:36] <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: dry ice? <-- you'll have a hard time to get that wet under most circumstances...
14:41:35 <PeterT> Also, does loading *.sv1 usually cause a crash?
14:41:43 <PeterT> Should they be reported?
14:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: no, yes.
14:42:05 <OwenS> PeterT: Except when it's a TTDPatch save IIRC?
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14:42:14 <Yexo> PeterT: what's the point of that screenshot? I don't see any difference with a normal intro menu?
14:42:29 <PeterT> To prove the DOS port works?
14:42:48 <Yexo> but that screenshot is the same as from a windows build? how does that prove anything?
14:42:59 <OwenS> PeterT: I could have easily taken said screenshot with a fullscreen Solaris build if I wanted :p
14:43:18 <OwenS> (Yes, OpenTTD builds cleanly on OpenSolaris using the Sun compilers)
14:43:32 <Yexo> PeterT: now if the screenshot included for example the dosbox window around it then it'd be proof that somebody was able to load the intro game in dosbox
14:43:38 <PeterT> Wow, OpenTTD just crashed again when creating an emergency save
14:43:43 <OwenS> (At least I think it used the Sun compilers :P )
14:43:47 <PeterT> Well, I didn't make it, roboboy did
14:44:34 <OwenS> Oh no, ./configure went ("gcc in path? Nice" and ignored my CC and CXX variables :-()
14:45:05 <Yexo> PeterT: was that savegame a clean ttd/tto one? if so, please create a bugreport and include crash.dmp
14:45:43 <PeterT> Ignore my response, that was when loading with TTDPatch
14:46:03 <roboboy> unles someone gives me a build of OpenTTD that says DOS OpenTTD on the title screen, I can not prove OpenTTD DOS works on real hardware
14:46:05 <OwenS> PeterT: Thats a TTDPatch save
14:46:31 <Rubidium> roboboy: start game -> quit
14:46:45 <OwenS> Hmm, will OpenTTD DOS run with 2MB of RAM? Cause then I'll take a picture of it on my craptop :P
14:46:58 <roboboy> ok yeah that would work
14:47:08 <Yexo> if you can get to the intro screen you should be able to load at least a 64x64 map
14:47:42 <OwenS> Then all I need to do is transfer it across on floppies
14:48:05 <OwenS> (And watch it run painfully slow on a 20Mhz 386-SX)
14:48:06 <ccfreak2k> (it was a towel btw)
14:48:32 <PeterT> Yexo: So, should I file the bug report or not?
14:48:42 <Yexo> no, as ttdpatch savegames are not supported
14:50:53 <OwenS> Does TTDPatch mark it's saves at all? Cause if so, you should probably display a warning :p
15:02:17 <Starn> ugh nothing wants to be automatic anymore
15:02:54 <ccfreak2k> OwenS, at least you don't have to spend weeks compiling it with cc circa 1989. :)
15:03:40 <orudge> [14:50:53] <OwenS> Does TTDPatch mark it's saves at all? <-- it does, indeed
15:03:50 <orudge> well, plus the fact that the file format is changed quite significantly if morevehicles is used
15:04:39 <orudge> roboboy: you can use something like DOSLFN or LFNDOS to get long filenames working under DOS
15:04:49 <orudge> oh, I see, you've already mentioned that, heh
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15:31:05 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: yexo * r19352 /trunk/src/ (stdafx.h tgp.cpp): -Fix (r19332): MSVC doesn't have M_PI in math.h
15:34:51 <OwenS> orudge: Incidentally, St Andrews are the last university on my list to get back to me >_<
15:38:26 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: yexo * r19353 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
15:38:26 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use static objects for the airport statemachines instead of new/delete at the start/end of the game
15:38:26 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Codechange: store the fta in AirportSpec
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16:02:20 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: yexo * r19354 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.cpp newgrf_airport.h table/airport_defaults.h): -Codechange: store the number of layouts in AirportSpec
16:07:57 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: yexo * r19355 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: add the airport layout to build as parameter to CmdBuildAirport
16:11:00 <planetmaker> that sounds already quite far on the way to newgrf airports :-)
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16:12:15 <planetmaker> Starn: your remark about not quite accurate grammar is just as bad as the posting you reply to...
16:16:02 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: frosch * r19356 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Whitespace.
16:18:30 <Starn> i am very stressed depressed person atm.
16:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> then you should leave the internet...
16:18:57 <Starn> my emotions screwing up everything even my music its sad sounding..
16:19:04 <Starn> heh internet is keeping be stable
16:23:44 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: frosch * r19357 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Add 'face' member to ErrmsgWindow to simplify stuff.
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16:26:22 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: frosch * r19358 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp misc_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3663]: Close error messages about missing ownership when the company closes or is taken over. (parts by Alberth).
16:27:35 * peter1138 suspects roboboy's dos guide is wrong ;p
16:27:55 <peter1138> mouse.com twice, and renaming to 8.3 shouldn't be necessary with the lfn stuff
16:48:06 <PeterT> Why was the Command Validation changed in trunk?
16:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: to close potentially dangerous loopholes
16:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: did you actually read the page you just linked to?
16:58:03 <PeterT> I saw things like desycnes
16:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it says right there "this can cause NULL pointer dereferences"
16:58:30 <PeterT> To be honest, I have no idea what that means.
16:58:47 <frosch123> in context of command handling it means remote crash all servers and clients
16:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: means a server can crash all clients
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16:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: a modified client can also crash the server
17:00:14 <PeterT> Is there a way to get around this while still allowing patched servers?
17:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, get the patches into trunk.
17:00:40 <frosch123> easy, just branch off ottd. then script kiddies will crash your servers, not ours
17:01:57 *** woldemar has joined #openttd
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17:37:19 * PeterT feels like he broke the strgen
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18:45:47 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: translators * r19359 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:47 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: croatian - 5 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:47 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: esperanto - 4 changes by Ailanto
18:45:47 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: finnish - 6 changes by jpx_
18:45:49 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
18:45:49 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
19:01:17 <DJNekkid> will TTDPATCHflag bit 16 (enginepersist) be able to detect "Vehicles never expire" ?
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19:33:27 <PeterT> When does the nightly compile run?
19:34:13 <ccfreak2k> I would assume: at night.
19:39:01 <planetmaker> somewhere on Earth always is night
19:39:21 <planetmaker> CF starts at ~20 CET
19:40:57 <frosch123> we should turn jupiter into a second sun
19:41:21 <planetmaker> uh... :-) That time will come
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19:41:42 <PeterT> Doh! Just finished [14:37:05] <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r19359) completed.
19:41:46 <planetmaker> I just don't know anymore whether this year or 2061
19:42:14 <frosch123> but they already failed the 2001 shedule
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19:45:29 <TrueBrain> and a cup of coffee
19:48:42 <CIA-7> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19360 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] When the tractive effort of a road vehicle is not set, use a default value of 4C.
19:49:14 <TrueBrain> they printed that in a paper here .. a basketballbat ..
19:49:17 <TrueBrain> what do those things do?
19:50:09 <Alberth> fly & hang upside down from a basketball basket?
19:50:29 <frosch123> basketball for blind?
19:50:39 <TrueBrain> I like the solutions :)
19:51:45 *** IA_2ndPC is now known as Illegal_Alien
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19:58:41 <PeterT> Realistic Road Acceleration is quite good, although the Hover Bus doesn't really reach above 156 mph
20:03:50 *** Illegal_Alien has joined #openttd
20:03:50 <Terkhen> that's expected, a hover bus shouldn't have rolling friction but with the current model it does
20:05:11 <ccfreak2k> Wouldn't it have some amount of air friction?
20:06:08 <Terkhen> ccfreak2k: air drag is taken into account too
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20:32:23 <peter1138> anyone have a surround sound system?
20:32:52 *** Chillosophy^ has joined #openttd
20:33:02 <peter1138> i just coded B-format ambisonics
20:35:28 <glx> and a basic one (LCD speaker)
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20:36:42 <TrueBrain> I have a full 5.1 set :p
20:36:47 <peter1138> anyway, i couldn't come up with a concept for 'rear' sounds
20:37:38 <peter1138> currently the pan position is mapped to -90° to 90°, i.e. left to right
20:38:00 <peter1138> and altitude is just scaled
20:38:18 <peter1138> not proper positioning, but then it's 2D...
20:39:10 <peter1138> TrueBrain, 5.1 isn't really surround
20:39:19 <peter1138> it's ... bullshit marketing descrete channels
20:39:26 <TrueBrain> nothing is really surround, that is why I never said that :)
20:39:51 <peter1138> no, ambisonics really is surround
20:40:03 <peter1138> you get a decoder and you tell it where your speakers are
20:40:17 <peter1138> and it calculates how the sound you be playe
20:41:02 <peter1138> you can do it on the 5.1 system, but they generally have 1 sub and 5 tiny speakers which don't handle low frequencies
20:41:22 <TrueBrain> my set is SLIGHTLY more advanced
20:41:28 <TrueBrain> either way, you asked for people with a surround sound system
20:41:33 <peter1138> it has a remote? :D
20:41:50 <peter1138> in fact, you get quite a nice effect with just 2 speakers
20:41:53 <TrueBrain> not that it means much
20:42:16 <peter1138> heh, more marketing :D
20:42:23 <TrueBrain> very expensive license
20:42:27 <TrueBrain> but, not complete bullshit
20:44:17 <peter1138> that'll do positioning quite accurately, although height information will be lost
20:45:56 <TrueBrain> make it rotate at a high frequency, and you are done!
20:46:30 <peter1138> in fact, you probably know that you only have 2 ears
20:46:37 <peter1138> unless you're bjarni or something
20:47:01 <peter1138> you can in theory simulate all the positional queues with headphones
20:47:26 <TrueBrain> in fact, they even do that :)
20:47:31 <TrueBrain> not only in theory :p
20:47:46 <peter1138> in theory, as in it may not work for everyone
20:48:40 <peter1138> (that's my new definition :D)
20:50:05 <TrueBrain> so hereby, all your patches are now 'in theory', fine by me :)
20:50:31 <TrueBrain> 'it may not work' holds for every electronic device
20:50:49 <TrueBrain> I guess it is now a strange world, with all this 'in theory' shit floating around :)
20:51:24 <peter1138> $ svn diff | wc 582 2245 16169
20:51:37 <peter1138> most of that is the jack audio driver, mind you
20:53:32 <TrueBrain> 'in theory' it should work
20:53:37 <Rubidium> anything not pulse should be fine :)
20:54:11 <peter1138> jack does work, heh
21:01:12 <OwenS> Rubidium: So, someone else with my dislike of Pulse (Well, I also dislike ALSA :P )
21:01:20 <PeterT> Haha, <Public-server> <Matt> but i thought its unrealistic
21:03:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: ALSA is nice :) It allowed me to do MIDI stuff in a few lines :)
21:04:05 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Perhaps. But it also dislikes me. And their policy for fixing it seems to be "pile incompatible crap on incompatible crap", as evidenced by the continual invention of new interfaces, of which we have now reached Pulse
21:04:26 <OwenS> Also, the "Linux" in it's name tells enough about how many platforms it works on
21:06:48 <TrueBrain> surround is only good if it helps to look behind you
21:07:10 <OwenS> (In other words: I shouldn't have to write a different backend for Linux from that I use on Solaris, FreeBSD, etc...)
21:07:55 <peter1138> you can use sdl, or portaudio, or openal...
21:09:08 <peter1138> the pulseaudio api, for instance, isn't meant to be used directly
21:09:18 <peter1138> although some have decided to do so, for some reason
21:10:01 <OwenS> peter1138: Portaudio is the only one of those which is a decent option, but it's API is still a lowest common denominator one (For example, no way to output AC3/DTS)
21:10:22 <peter1138> crappy format anyway
21:10:56 <OwenS> peter1138: DTS-CA is pretty decent. And the best 5.1 you can carry over TOSLINK. And it's not sane to decompress it just for the sound card to recompress it
21:14:56 <peter1138> fibre, more marketing crap :)
21:15:42 <OwenS> OK, carry it over coaxial if you want. Unfortunately, my machine can't output audio over HDMI, and I don't have a HDMI receiver anyway
21:19:07 <peter1138> i prefer my audio uncompressed
21:19:21 <peter1138> and unencumbered by proprietory compression, at the least
21:19:44 * peter1138 goes to play some 96kbit MP3s ;p
21:20:07 <OwenS> Ugh. I find my minimum bitrate for MP3 is 192kb/s
21:20:19 <OwenS> peter1138: Please come back to me when I can buy videos in an unencumbered format.
21:20:58 * frosch123 wonders whether the watercycle pixels in ogfx sprites 4769 to 4771 are intentional
21:21:26 <OwenS> peter1138: OK, in that case, it's still coming in MP3 or AAC. Which are encumbered. (Or Vorbis, but Vorbis sucks balls for 5.1)
21:22:27 * peter1138 strokes his FLAC collection
21:22:40 <OwenS> FLAC is also my preference
21:23:30 <Lakie> Sounds like a good idea
21:23:40 <Lakie> high quality but compressed slioghtly
21:24:01 <OwenS> Rubidium: Nah, WAV and BZip2. High quality, marginally compressed, and using stupid CPU :P
21:24:09 * Lakie worked with some software needing raw wavs and they were truely huge compared to .ogg / .mp3...
21:24:38 <peter1138> i should clarify, audio compression is no problem if it's lossless :)
21:24:56 <peter1138> isn't lzma worse for cpu than bzip2?
21:25:11 <Rubidium> depends on how you look at it
21:25:14 <OwenS> peter1138: Compressing yes. Decompressing no.
21:25:39 <OwenS> But even lzma -fast beats bzip -take5hours
21:26:09 <peter1138> ahh, ambdec comes with a 5.1 preset, although it does assume that your speakers are at the exact correct locations
21:26:25 <peter1138> and the lfe channel is not used
21:26:28 * OwenS considers making an OpenTTD patch to support .tar.xz's :P
21:27:27 <peter1138> better patch: custom bridge heads
21:27:48 <OwenS> Rubidium: LZX? Then there would be no tool to make them :P
21:27:54 <Prof_Frink> betterer patch: NewCustomBridgeHeads!
21:30:30 <glx> IIRC someone already has this patch :)
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21:44:52 <peter1138> TrueBrain, but yes, i wouldn't consider actually commiting this, because a jack support in a game is pretty silly
21:45:15 <TrueBrain> peter1138: nothing wrong with an additional audio-out
21:46:12 * Rubidium ponders using libpng's versioning scheme
21:48:04 <Rubidium> 1.4.0beta86 -> 1.4.0rc01 -> 1.4.0beta87 .. 1.4.0beta109 -> 1.4.0rc02 .. 1.4.1beta03 -> 1.4.1rc01 -> 1.4.1beta04 .. 1.4.1beta12 -> 1.4.1rc02
21:48:27 <TrueBrain> betas between rcs? Cool :)
21:48:37 <OwenS> And what happened to 1.40release?
21:48:53 <OwenS> And why are we randomly incrementing the beta*?
21:49:08 <OwenS> Use Tex' versioning scheme. Much better
21:49:21 <Rubidium> .. means that I skipped (a lot) of reasonable versioning increments
21:50:22 <OwenS> Though in that case we need to decide who's death it becomes berfect at :p
21:50:29 <Rubidium> although we ofcourse have ~360 alphas between releases
21:50:50 <OwenS> Rubidium: They're called nightlies are they not ;-)
21:51:41 <OwenS> Theres a difference between an automated may-not-even-build nightly and a presumably manually released beta release. And as betas are supposed to mainly fix bugs, libpng must be very buggy ;-)
21:52:20 <Rubidium> 1.4.0 is out since jan 03 2010
21:52:36 <Rubidium> 1.5.0 is already at beta11
21:53:17 <planetmaker> quick release cycle, eh?
21:53:49 <OwenS> planetmaker: No, 98 more betas to go :p
21:53:54 <Rubidium> 1.4.0beta1 april 20, 2006
21:54:35 * planetmaker withdraws the last comment
21:55:22 <Rubidium> 1.2.0beta1 may 6, 2001
21:55:50 <Rubidium> although, 1.2.0 september 1, 2001
21:56:26 <Rubidium> which basically means 1.4's beta cycle was 3.5 longer than the 1.2 beta cycle
21:56:56 <Rubidium> version 1.00 [March 7, 1998]
21:57:02 <Rubidium> version 1.0.0 [March 8, 1998]
21:57:07 <Rubidium> really... what the ...
21:57:09 <Ammler> Rubidium: you should rather skip rc too after 1.0 release
21:57:26 <Ammler> and not introduce betas
21:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that's what they call their nightlies
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21:59:29 <glx> [LibEMU] -Codechange: allow JIT to continue after loading a dmp ?
21:59:40 <TrueBrain> you can't imagine a lib like libpng has so many problems
21:59:55 <TrueBrain> glx: wrong channel, but yes :) Well, replace dmp for crash.bin :)
22:02:52 <OwenS> Aah, so that project did eventually become a proper project :-)
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22:03:22 <TrueBrain> it even has players
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22:06:35 <Ammler> He, I reached level 3 too ;-)
22:22:57 <fonsinchen> Especially AT_DUMMY==255 ...
22:23:08 <fonsinchen> Maybe I should post a bug report.
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22:52:59 <impactor> If I place a train station in range of two iron mines, will both mines produce ore for transport?
22:53:22 <PeterT> If they are within the station catchment, yes.
22:53:53 <impactor> I'm still trying to get the hang of the game, primarily railway systems
22:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that only works for taking away cargo, though. if you deliver cargo, only one industry will get it
22:56:49 <impactor> Alright, so it will work in this case of the two adjacent iron mines
22:57:39 <impactor> Would this also be the place to propose certain changes to the game?
22:57:43 <PeterT> Two adjacent primary industries (coal mines, forests, iron mine)
23:03:56 <planetmaker> impactor: you can always propose changes ;-)
23:05:01 <impactor> I think it would be valuable to place hotkeys for certain tools in tooltips.
23:05:44 <planetmaker> Indeed. Until that time till they become configurable ;-)
23:06:07 <impactor> Would it not be possible to include them even then?
23:06:25 <planetmaker> Actually that's something translators can quite easily do themselves now
23:06:58 <planetmaker> impactor: difficult
23:07:07 <planetmaker> what key does open the console for you?
23:07:23 <planetmaker> what do you use to quit the game?
23:07:35 <planetmaker> you probably Ctrl+Q ;-)
23:07:52 <planetmaker> just a difference of supported platforms which map codes to different keys
23:08:05 <impactor> It says ~ in the wiki
23:08:11 <planetmaker> and then the language settings of the OS play a role
23:08:18 <planetmaker> Yes ~ in US keyboard layout
23:08:43 <planetmaker> but it is always(?) left of 1
23:08:56 <planetmaker> so... difficult to get it right
23:08:58 <impactor> Yep, that's ~ for me
23:09:15 <planetmaker> so it will be wrong for >50% of the users
23:10:20 <glx> with russian keyboard layout it's ё
23:11:42 * planetmaker knows neither :-) - but would assume the same
23:14:47 <impactor> Are there currently plans to make hotkeys configurable?
23:15:05 <Rubidium> there are people that have that as a 'plan'
23:19:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:55:15 <PeterT> fonsinchen: Your bug is fixed
23:55:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19361 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Fix [FS#3664](r19353): crash when an airport was deleted
23:55:56 <Yexo> thanks for the report fonsinchen :)
23:56:27 <fonsinchen> thanks for the fix
continue to next day ⏵
