IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-01-28
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00:00:21 <Markk> But I was more thinking of society and not evolutionary
00:01:55 <Rubidium> from a society point of view people with hereditary diseases not breeding is good (at least cheaper for healthcare and such)
00:02:12 <planetmaker> he... anyone try this: empty depot. Shift+click on "start trains button".
00:02:18 <planetmaker> Watch the interesting error message :-P
00:03:28 <planetmaker> shall I make a FS entry for it?
00:03:33 <Rubidium> but well, I guess I digress
00:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how do you divid hereditary deseases from next-step-of-evolution mutations?
00:05:22 <Markk> Rubidium: yeah, in long term
00:05:37 <Markk> But it costs too keep them alive too
00:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in general, society is an opposite design goal from evolution. they contradict each other
00:05:48 <Markk> (I have a hard time with too and to)
00:06:07 <Markk> (And some beer on that and you're f*cked)
00:06:48 <Yexo> planetmaker: try holding shift when giving a vehicle an order
00:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, population growth is one of the biggest problems of the civilisation. because at some point it reaches a state where the world's population cannot be fed by the world's ressources
00:07:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: dieing unless kept alive with massive amounts of medicine doesn't sound like a viable way for evolution, i.e. without medicine that branch of evolution would be pruned
00:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's why i said contradictory... society tells us to keep them alive, evolution says we need to kill them
00:08:39 <Rubidium> that's why society has become kinda stupid
00:08:52 <planetmaker> now, interestingly, Yexo, I get a cost estimate of 0 for starting 1 vehicle, but an empty string when starting no vehicle.
00:08:57 <Rubidium> but heh, it's capitalism and that thrives wit keeping people alive
00:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: problem is that this fact has been abused for several centuries by ultra-nationalist movements over the world
00:09:28 <Yexo> planetmaker: oh, didn't read _empty_ depot the first time
00:11:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: guess Godwin's law has been proven once more
00:11:28 <planetmaker> works also for RV, so probably also for all depots
00:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's not only the nazis, it started way earlier
00:12:17 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, I wanted to say that the nazis were kinda the opposite; they 'pruned' the 'sick'
00:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and the exact same arguments are used today... news headlines along the line of "in 40 years, the dumb people will outpopulate the intelligent ones" and the like
00:13:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's an understatement :(
00:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but the same kind of movement happened in the USA and the UK at that time...
00:14:07 <__ln__> that has already happend based on observations of any web 2.0 site.
00:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: sterilisation or euthanasia of people with genetic deseases
00:15:25 <Rubidium> well, they're quite against that in the USA now
00:16:07 <__ln__> sterilisation was a common practice in many countries back then.
00:17:22 <Rubidium> not to mention how stupid wars are... sending the healthy away to be killed and leaving the sick at home
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00:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> "sound that a steam train is making when entering a tunnel?"
00:36:42 <stalwart10> I think it is getting late
00:36:51 <stalwart10> thanks for all your generous help
00:37:06 <stalwart10> esp. SmatZ and Rubidium
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01:21:28 <aber> Whats going on here "Eugenics"?
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01:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> windows does not have the concept of "fork"
01:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> as such, the parameter makes no sense there
01:57:20 <PeterT> but the code says "!defined(WIN32)
01:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "on anything other than windows"
01:59:23 <PeterT> I read this (#if !defined(__MORPHOS__) && !defined(__AMIGA__) && !defined(WIN32)
01:59:24 <PeterT> ) as "if you are using morphos, amiga, or win32, show the forked parameter
02:01:38 <PeterT> so every OS other than morphos, amiga, and win32
02:01:47 <PeterT> what does that leave for win64, then?
02:02:00 <SmatZ> hard to say, I think it belongs to WIN32 family
02:02:21 <PeterT> SmatZ: Are you an admin on bugs.openttd.org?
02:02:29 <PeterT> or someone that could close my bugreport?
02:02:35 <SirSquidness> win64 doesn't have teh -f option in --help either
02:02:45 <SmatZ> PeterT: what bugreport?
02:03:38 <PeterT> I completely failed at reading and interperating the code there
02:04:18 <PeterT> so, what does "forked" actually do?
02:04:43 <SmatZ> it forks into background, so you can use terminal for something else :-p
02:04:54 <PeterT> how do you re-open it, then?
02:05:05 <SmatZ> I guess it doesn't output anything as well
02:05:26 <SmatZ> if you want to stop it :)
02:05:33 <PeterT> something like rcon pw "quit"
02:08:16 <SmatZ> PeterT: personally, I think it's a good idea
02:08:34 <SmatZ> also I wonder about parameters of
02:08:44 <SmatZ> like, -g -D will load game -D ?
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02:09:01 <PeterT> What I've used is -D -g savegame.sav
02:09:06 <SmatZ> I should have a look at it
02:09:35 <SmatZ> ok, -g -D starts dedicated server :)
02:09:50 <SmatZ> makes it a bit complicated to load game starting with "-" ;)
02:10:04 <PeterT> is there any speicifc order that the code for parameters should be in?
02:10:18 <PeterT> if one was, say, writing a patch
02:11:29 <PeterT> i will try copying the dedicated server code
02:11:42 <SmatZ> I guess "openttd -n" should be used for that
02:11:51 <SmatZ> when no parameter is supplied
02:12:12 <PeterT> what about "-n [port]" to load a different port?
02:12:17 <SmatZ> I don't like -g being used for "start new game" both "load game" neither
02:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <SmatZ> makes it a bit complicated to load game starting with "-" ;) <-- typically programs introduce a "--" option to resolve these ambiguities
02:12:53 <SirSquidness> If you were to use quotes around the file name, I imagine that would work too?
02:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but that doesn't really work for parameters like this
02:12:58 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: -- is usually used as "now follows list of files to work with"
02:13:01 <SirSquidness> Or escaping the - with a \ ?
02:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> because you'd need to put the -- between the parameter and the file
02:13:27 <SmatZ> SirSquidness: shell will send it further as if there were no ""
02:13:40 <PeterT> what bothers me is that there is no option to use "-g "../dir/savegame.sav"
02:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to remember that paths are relative to the root of the data dir
02:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. the personal dir or something...
02:15:23 <PeterT> that means the sav *has* to be in the /save dir
02:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but this conflicts with the whole data path search
02:15:30 <PeterT> or /saves, what ever it may be
02:15:56 <glx> quickly backread: WIN64 defines WIN32 too
02:24:46 <PeterT> SmatZ: Will you work on implementing -n as network game?
02:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that is very ambiguous...
02:31:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18932 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange: Don't constantly redraw drop drop list.
02:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: what if you want "-n IP:Port" to bind your server on that IP, instead of joining a server at that IP?
02:31:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18933 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Don't constantly redraw a window when moving it unless it actually moves.
02:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least that's the meaning i deduce from "-D IP:Port")
02:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "drop drop list"?
02:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> at least it's more clear than $someone's missing "not"s ;)
02:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the night shift is pretty crowded today... you on vacation or something?
02:35:10 <peter1138> i was lazy and didn't go to bed
02:35:12 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Then perhaps a different parameter would be needed
02:35:19 <peter1138> and thus i'm too awake now
02:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that feeling ;)
02:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and now the cats are sleeping on my bed...
02:42:00 <peter1138> well, i'll give it a go
02:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, there's a snowstorm outside...
02:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> they said wind is coming from north-west, so that's unlikely ;)
02:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> rule is fairly simple: north-west is wet and cold, north-east is dry and cold, anything south-ish is dry and warm (so-called "Föhn")
02:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (not to be confused with "Fön", which is a hair-dryer
02:54:04 <Sacro> my german bist nicht so gut
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02:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> of course you guys don't have an eqivalent of "Föhn", because you don't have any mountains :p
02:56:07 <cornjuliox> i dont know if this is caused by openttd but every time I try to play the game it causes my PC to hang. I've tried 1.0.0 beta3 and 0.75 both with the same results
02:56:34 <cornjuliox> i suspect it might actually be openttd because my PC doesn't hang like that with any other program.
02:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> cornjuliox: what are the symptoms of this "hanging" and which operation system?
02:58:42 <cornjuliox> Eddi|zuHause, i'm on windows xp, there are no 'symptoms' to the hanging i would simply be playing for anywhere between 5-10 minutes and everything just stops
02:58:53 <cornjuliox> pc no longer responds to input
02:59:12 <cornjuliox> and nothing will bring it out of this state except a hard reset
02:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> cornjuliox: might be bad memory
02:59:35 <cornjuliox> but i don't experience this kind of hanging with anything except openttd
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03:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> cornjuliox: have you tried a memtest? download something like knoppix and boot from that CD, type "memtest"
03:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause> any other bootable linux should include memtest as well...
03:01:44 <cornjuliox> don't have a burner, is there anything else i can try?
03:02:00 <cornjuliox> as a matter of fact the cd drive on this PC is broken :-(
03:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if you can put it on a bootable diskette...
03:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't used one of those for a decade
03:03:02 <cornjuliox> they don't make diskettes anymore, do they?
03:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you could also try getting something for a bootable USB stick
03:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure they do, but you'll probably have to search for them :p
03:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you'll need _something_ to boot from in order to do a memtest
03:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> memtest86 is the program you should be googling for
03:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> booting is the only way to make sure there's absolutely no program running
03:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, random computer freezes are more likely a hardware or drover problem than a software problem. no "userspace" software should have the ability to cause that
03:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: he said 5-10 minutes into the game
03:14:52 <glx> hmm yes, I suspect hardware problems
03:14:57 <SirSquidness> if there is a fulty component such as Eddi|zuHause suspects, then this will almost certainly pick it up
03:15:40 <SirSquidness> Leave it running for a few hours
03:15:48 <SirSquidness> And make sure to select the stress test option
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03:16:03 <cornjuliox> i g2g i'll come back later after the test runs.
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09:16:12 <ahac> does anyone know how you can transport fruit with the 2cc train set?
09:27:50 <Ammler> ahac: filter for the cargo
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10:02:56 <boekabart> was playing 1.0.0 b3 yesterday, and after a while my screen was littered with windows. Any way to get rid of them easily?
10:06:33 <boekabart> you make it sound so easy ;)
10:06:51 <boekabart> that deleted all windows?
10:07:24 <Rubidium> or IIRC shift-del for also the pinned windows
10:09:58 <boekabart> I have to say... on a 15" 1680x1050 screen, I really miss the ctrl-d modus
10:10:19 * boekabart should get a 24" monitor...
10:11:10 <TrueBrain> he didn't say CTRL+d, did he? Omg ..... no, he didn't. Really, he didn't, did he? :p
10:11:18 <TrueBrain> boekabart: increase the font-size and you will be fine :)
10:11:47 <boekabart> No, not referring to the windows... but to the game screen
10:12:46 <peter1138> you mean you miss double size
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10:20:13 <Ammler> doesn't windows desktop have something like a zoom-in?
10:27:19 <Ammler> boekabart: there you have you "ctrl-d" ^ ;-)
10:29:35 <peter1138> You could play with 32bpp-extra-zoom, although that will be ugly for 8bpp graphics.
10:30:05 <peter1138> Apparently blury bilinear filtered 8bpp graphics are better than nearest-neighbour :s
10:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a nice patch for additional filters for the old ctrl+d mode, including a "high quality" one that was optimised for isometric lines
10:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that was amazing, except for fonts
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11:15:42 <peter1138> In theory you can just apply it to viewport sprites.
11:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but you should use toroidal sprites or something, else you get artifacts at the edges
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12:56:09 <TinoDidriksen> | grep 'tile:0000' | tail -n 1
12:56:22 * SmatZ wanted to say the same :)
12:56:49 <Ammler> so I need to read the whole file?
12:57:10 <SpComb^> import it into a database and look it up from there? :)
12:59:13 <TinoDidriksen> Import to a db? Overhead 101.
13:01:13 <Ammler> hmm, I could analyze the console with autopilot...
13:05:35 <FauxFaux> while ! tail -n $i < file | grep 'tile:0000'; do a = $i; i = $(($i+1)); done
13:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you can continuously monitor a file with "tail -f logfile | grep blah"
13:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and update some stuff each time there is a new line
13:21:02 <Ammler> autopilot does already, just need to make a hook there
13:36:00 <peter1138> hmm, where does windows keep its user password file?
13:36:34 <TrueBrain> wasn't that in its keyvault?
13:36:41 <TrueBrain> or was that only the admin pass ..
13:39:53 <SirSquidness> peter1138: c:\windows\system32\config\sam I believe is the passwords file
13:40:15 <peter1138> Luukland, we don't care about it either ;)
13:40:26 <SirSquidness> or one of the files in there, but I'm pretty sure it's sam
13:41:55 <rait> is there any poing in compiling with DirectMusic support?
13:42:37 <Rubidium> the other methods don't work on all Windows installs
13:42:42 <glx> sometimes win32 midi doesn't work
13:49:22 <rait> but as long as there are no music packs it's pretty much pointless?
13:49:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r18934 /trunk/src/sound/win32_s.cpp: -Fix (r18892, r18913): the deadlock should be definitively gone now
13:49:41 <glx> thanks for the testing rait :)
13:49:49 <Rubidium> rait: but there's the original music
13:50:11 * Rubidium wonders when we see "-Fix (r18892, r18913, r18934): "
13:50:35 <glx> [23:48:40] <rait> i'm giving it a green light, seems that it finally is nailed <-- he said "ok" :)
13:51:30 <glx> btw WS2008 is not a desktop system ;)
13:52:34 * Rubidium still 'feels' Windows 2000 is better than Windows 7
13:52:53 <glx> SpComb^: similar symptom yes
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13:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so windows is using pulseaudio nowadays? :p
13:53:59 <rait> i can't comment on the "sound seems to stop after a while" since i don't use ingame sounds. but freezing in the end sound similar (maybe i had a dream about it last night ...)
13:55:08 <SpComb^> I've had that well on my Ubuntu 9.10 laptop... pulseaudio
13:57:32 <TrueBrain> cool, we might get a BG (country) mirror soon :)
13:58:06 <SpComb^> if you want a proper mirror in finland, contact nic.funet.fi
13:58:25 <TrueBrain> wasnt someone working for .fi already?
13:58:36 <boekabart> Wouldn't a US and Asian mirror be more useful? (being that the lines within EU are short and fast anyway)
13:58:56 <TrueBrain> and yes, an Asian would be useful
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14:00:02 <lennard> TrueBrain: pro tip: go scout channels of other mirrors
14:00:23 <Rubidium> well... a .jp, .au, .in and .cn might be useful
14:00:36 <TrueBrain> lennard: I let that for our community users to do that ;) I am overloaded as it is ;) (so, anyone feels up for that job? :p)
14:00:38 <boekabart> my friend in .cn suggests .hk or .tw
14:00:50 <lennard> places like #debian-mirrors or #mirrors on irc.mozilla.org
14:01:01 <lennard> right, well, good luck community ;)
14:01:01 <Rubidium> .hk basically is .cn
14:01:10 <Rubidium> .tw on the other hand, not quite .cn
14:01:29 <boekabart> what I understood, hk is still very much not .cn
14:01:32 <Rubidium> after all, Hong Kong is part of China
14:01:40 <SirSquidness> Rubidium: .au is not useful - bandwith charges $$$$
14:01:50 <SirSquidness> unless someone donates some.
14:02:28 <Rubidium> SirSquidness: you mean bandwidth Europe<->Australia costs less than Australia<->Australia?
14:02:46 <SirSquidness> No, just general bandwidth charges within Australia are horrendously expensive
14:02:53 <TrueBrain> LOL! Google wants to verify my account by SMS?! WHAT THE FUCK
14:03:02 <SirSquidness> for the price of getting a few hundred GB in the US, and a TB in Europe, you'll get 50GB in Australia
14:03:40 <SirSquidness> You'd be better off going somewhere south Asia - singapore, Japan or the like I imagine would be cheaper
14:03:59 <Rubidium> Japan's links are notoriously overcrowded
14:04:28 <SirSquidness> Doesn't surprise me given the percentage of people with 100Mb/s fibre
14:04:29 <Rubidium> that's why a mirror for binaries in Japan is useful, but using it for e.g. Australia might not be that useful
14:05:07 <Rubidium> although Singapore would probably be a better place
14:05:26 <TrueBrain> I love this irony: you can complain to Google why you can't verify by SMS: "I don't want to give my mobile number to Google" is one of the options
14:05:33 <SirSquidness> That said, we're not downloading gigabytes of information, so speed isn't so much of an issue, just the cost to provide it
14:05:34 <TrueBrain> of course I took that option .. fuck Google ...
14:06:18 <Rubidium> oh, I waved to the nl. mirror today :)
14:06:41 <Rubidium> SpComb^: but that's an old version
14:07:15 <Rubidium> although... probably newer/less vulnerable than Gentoo ;)
14:09:02 <rait> okay who here can compile on windows 7?
14:10:23 <SirSquidness> boekabart: that map is out of date - there's now a link from Sydney AU, Brisbane AU up to Guam where a crapload of Asia -> US links go through
14:10:27 <rait> .NET framework something, ran by visual c++ installer
14:10:40 <Luukland> Ah, yeah, couldnt get it to work on mine also
14:10:52 <Luukland> I tried the msys compiler
14:10:54 <glx> everything worked well for me
14:11:16 <Luukland> It was stuck on the C++ visual something installing part
14:12:25 <SpComb^> hmm... leave the opntitle.dat savegame running on fast-forward until 2169 at, uh, 31x daylength
14:12:37 <SpComb^> Ledston has shrunk to 80pop
14:15:52 <SpComb^> altough this with buggy NewGRFs
14:17:49 <TrueBrain> I just had to do that
14:21:13 <lennard> heh, that zoom to button is weird
14:21:23 <lennard> it just keeps centering and adding a zoom level
14:21:33 <lennard> rather than jump to a preset zoom level
14:21:54 <TrueBrain> just links are totally fucked
14:22:28 <SpComb^> tsk, abusing the geo lat/long coords they gave you?
14:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it centering on US?
14:24:31 <lennard> because the reason given when asking for them was for geo-balancing purposes
14:24:37 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no fucking clue
14:24:54 <lennard> personally, I don't care, but that might be considered abuse, I agree :)
14:26:34 <TrueBrain> fair enough; I will place the markers in the middle of the country then ;)
14:27:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: this piece of software is not really user friendly .. but Google wants to text me before I can activate the account, which I refuse ...
14:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, give google your phone number... there's no possible way they ever use that against you :p
14:28:36 <TrueBrain> they also just happily announce they store your phone number
14:29:09 <SpComb^> I called microsoft the other day
14:29:26 <lennard> well, since google maintains the contact list for my phone, they could tell I have TrueBrain s number
14:29:36 <SpComb^> or rather, their automated I-want-to-activate-this-copy-of-windows-even-though-the-online-activation-thing-doesnt-let-me robot
14:29:48 <TrueBrain> lennard: one whois, and you will have it; but that is just besides the point :)
14:30:01 <lennard> but it very much is ;)
14:31:02 <TrueBrain> wow, openttd.org no longer refers to me in any way :) WHOHO!
14:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: yeah, i did that a few years ago, too
14:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i needed to, because it wouldn't let me set up an internet connection...
14:32:30 <SpComb^> I have the same WS2008R2 .iso installed on two VM's
14:32:47 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: though Israel and Draijer can be found via openttd.org and DNS/WHOIS
14:33:35 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how? Nothing should point there anymore
14:33:54 <Rubidium> paste, dns, reverse whois
14:35:13 <TrueBrain> that we still haven't moved paste is .. well .. not so nice :p
14:35:40 <TrueBrain> but ... it is such a piece of crap (software wise), that it is better off there :p
14:37:57 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: one Aalborg for you :)
14:39:31 <TrueBrain> one who can't read ....
14:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i like it
14:53:00 <SirSquidness> agreed, Eddi|zuHause
14:59:38 <Belugas> canada salutes Rubidium, with the expected lag
14:59:48 <TrueBrain> that was a VERY long roundtrip
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15:04:25 <Belugas> nice icon work, mister Nelson
15:05:34 <peter1138> has been possible since the 'new' drop down list code
15:07:54 * SpComb^ ponders whether to play OpenTTD or BF2
15:08:17 <SirSquidness> SpComb^: BF2 is so outdated now. BadCompany2 Beta is released in another 2 hours
15:08:21 <SirSquidness> Play OpenTTD while you still can
15:08:45 <SpComb^> bah, silly new games, no point
15:12:34 <Belugas> either way, they all come back to TTD at one point, out of boredom. Reality games have this tendancy ^_^
15:14:09 <SirSquidness> It's funny, because its' true ;P
15:18:44 <planetmaker> the endless monotony of reality ;-P
15:19:00 <TrueBrain> you wake up, do stuff, go to sleep, yes, I agree
15:19:06 <planetmaker> as if we hadn't enough of it in RL.
15:20:07 <SpComb^> you wake up, go eat lunch, fiddle around with OpenTTD, and go to sleep \o/
15:20:30 <TrueBrain> I know for a fact that was true for at least one OpenTTD dev for a few weeks :)
15:20:35 <SirSquidness> so many hours of my life... gone...
15:20:41 <SirSquidness> Thank YOU Openttd <3
15:22:57 <TrueBrain> melio rate sneez e pimpe rnel longw ords inher itres s billy cock
15:22:59 <TrueBrain> locat ives pretr eatme nt shink in moonl ighte d hunge ring penta
15:23:05 <TrueBrain> I get this mail twice a week .. still no clue what the user tries to tell me
15:23:45 <SirSquidness> I can make out some words spread across multiple 'words'.. but nothign makes sense
15:24:14 <SirSquidness> I think it's safe to mark it as spam
15:30:35 <SpComb^> de-training your spam filters
15:36:58 <Belugas> OpenTTD almost cost me a divorce :P
15:37:18 <SirSquidness> I think Belugas needs to put the crack down for a bit... :P
15:37:57 <lennard> wow... huge maps are huge
15:38:34 <SirSquidness> did lennard just discover 2048*2048 maps?
15:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are so huge, why do people keep asking for huger ones?
15:38:50 <lennard> I clicked the europe scenario :P
15:38:50 <Belugas> nope, SirSquidness, i'm freaking serious
15:39:01 <SirSquidness> I don't doubt that for a second.
15:39:17 <SirSquidness> I know a few people seriously addicted to the game.
15:39:30 <SirSquidness> You guys put a drug in teh source code or something, I swear
15:40:21 <Belugas> well... in my case, the drug was the source code ;)
15:40:39 <Belugas> the playing... well.. it was before i touched the source code ^_^
15:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the drugs were already there, they only built the source around it
15:40:48 <Belugas> and it was not as intensive...
15:46:22 *** boekabart is now known as boekabart_away
15:54:44 * SpComb^ fights the addiction by switching to BF2
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16:45:58 <lennard> wow, reading up on what path signals are 'just for the heck of it' was really worth it
17:01:19 <Belugas> time to feed the monster
17:01:56 * planetmaker now is also hungry
17:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> lennard is talking like someone who has found the game like yesterday :p
17:02:50 <lennard> just the improvements since the original :P
17:05:15 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:06:03 <lennard> but how was I to know?
17:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i once was like that, too ;)
17:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> about 5 years ago ;)
17:17:11 <lennard> I've been doing more important stuff :P
17:37:40 <planetmaker> the one you showed in the font size discussion?
17:39:45 <planetmaker> Road types needs it, too, though
17:40:20 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:40:28 <peter1138> there are probably more places for it
17:40:47 <Rubidium> yeah, maybe the company gui can reuse the code
17:40:52 <planetmaker> sure. But that's the most obvious one, if there are icons for rail types :-)
17:41:07 <Rubidium> uhm, company dropdown list thingy
17:42:56 *** woldemar has joined #openttd
17:43:39 <Rubidium> although, with the company colour and such it might be tricky
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17:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that done currently?
17:54:43 <Rubidium> bit of non-reusable code
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17:59:27 <peter1138> it's not a huge amount
17:59:51 <peter1138> there's a DrawCompanyIcon() in there that would have to be change
18:12:37 *** Cipriann has joined #openttd
18:19:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18935 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#3551] (r18764): value of variables 90 and 91 weren't what NARS expects
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18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18936 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt indonesian.txt spanish.txt vietnamese.txt):
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by fanioz
18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 7 changes by yanok
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 544 changes by myquartz
18:47:10 <planetmaker> hm, I expected a question from Cipriann ;-)
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18:49:27 <Belugas> you should see the TON of snow that is now falling from the window...
18:49:56 <planetmaker> he... I should somewhen dare to go home, too... but we have a nice snow storm outside...
18:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> how did the snow get on the window in the first place? :p
18:57:34 <Belugas> goign ride mister peter
18:58:01 <Belugas> the wind said "how" to the window
18:58:09 <Belugas> and the snow followed
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19:07:07 <Belugas> damned... that was fast...
19:07:15 <Belugas> it's that or you never left :)
19:07:22 <peter1138> well it's 1.7 miles
19:07:37 <peter1138> it was drissling so i didn't bother with a long route
19:08:38 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
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19:20:22 <Belugas> i think i prefer snow over drizzle..
19:20:28 <Belugas> looks better on the phoos :)
19:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what? where did that come from?
19:22:15 * Eddi|zuHause looks left and right, then runs away quickly
19:22:56 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i've been banned from drinking coffee in the evening ;(
19:23:20 <Rubidium> luckily there's caffeine in tea
19:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> drink cola instead ;)
19:23:33 <peter1138> or anything with caffeine, pedants :s
19:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i guess no red bull either :p
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19:26:03 <peter1138> i heard the old man tell his tale
19:27:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18937 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Fix (r15190): TileAddWrap didn't return INVALID_TILE for void tiles at the north border
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19:37:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:41:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18938 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Industrylayout's special water tile check did not properly check for crossing north border of map. Also don't consider MP_VOID tiles as water.
20:02:27 <Belugas> i fear the young man waving his tale
20:09:26 <frosch123> hmm, tale is not tail, right
20:15:32 <lennard> thats correct, they're not the same :P
20:15:59 <Belugas> the sane is not the same
20:16:33 <Belugas> The Tall Tail is Telling a Tale
20:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it's nice that the cat learns how to hunt a mouse...
20:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but must it be MY MOUSE?!?
20:26:05 <planetmaker> would you be pleased, if it liked to give you one of her hunted mouse as a present and put those onto your keyboard?
20:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm looking forward to that ;)
20:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the last cat was less indoor-fixated, so it was unlikely that she came near my keyboard at all...
20:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> usually she left the trophies in front of the door
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20:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> she also didn't learn how to use the cat door, so she always knocked and waited until someone opened
20:29:10 *** mib_z3u2y34pws5z has quit IRC
20:29:10 <Belugas> my cat prefers to walk back and forth in between me and the keyboard
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20:29:21 <Belugas> nice to have that furr in the mouth :S
20:29:33 <Belugas> and furr she has.... plenty!
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20:32:57 <sawtooth> one of mine likes to sit in front of the monitor so that I look at him instead
20:34:03 <sawtooth> widescreen though so I tend to shuffle the web browser around a bit in order to see it :)
20:34:18 <Alberth> they do know how to train people to get their attention
20:44:21 <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: about that guy ad tt-ms.de - I don't know what's wrong there as there isn't a savegame. You may be right and the bus used to stop at Falkenhaven-Zentrum on the way back. Obviously the link is active somehow.
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20:54:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r18939 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange [FS#3545]: Move train slope steepness to its own function.
20:55:25 <planetmaker> congraz, TheMask96
20:55:56 <planetmaker> damn tab completion
20:56:01 <SpComb^> someone hacked the SVN repo!
20:57:56 <Belugas> somene deserved the svn repo ;)
21:01:37 <Sacro> someone set us up the bomb?
21:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't that be "somebody"?
21:08:03 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
21:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... they write "somebody" but say "someone"
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21:30:35 <lennard> aww, rains cant collide with themselves :(
21:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that is _not_ a new feature :p
21:31:13 <lennard> I didn't do as much playing around before, I think :P
21:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> how did you get that thought
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21:36:15 <SpComb^> funny, I added 300 busses onto a route and the link capacity is still only about 400
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21:39:47 <rait> why are savegames so big?
21:40:08 <Rubidium> because there is a lot of information in them
21:40:36 <Rubidium> and rait... set the savegame format to none and be amazed how big they really become
21:40:58 <planetmaker> that's compressed ;-)
21:41:10 <glx> rait: the nightly exits correctly ?
21:41:12 <rait> real pain to upload to flyspray
21:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> rait: that's small for a 2048^2 map
21:41:48 <planetmaker> rait, for testing purposes 2048^2 is not quite the size of choice, indeed ;-)
21:42:26 <rait> i guess i didn't realise europe is so big when downloading the scenario
21:42:59 <rait> btw, is savegame format described somewhere?
21:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well it says the size in the download window, right?
21:43:53 <Belugas> savegame format is not really possible to be documented... it's... quite... complex
21:44:00 <Belugas> the best docuemntation is the source code
21:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> rait: it's a RIFF structure that gets compressed
21:44:58 <rait> RIFF = Resource Interchange File Format?
21:46:28 <rait> is it compressed in some standard format?
21:46:57 <Rubidium> (if you don't have zlib)
21:47:11 <Rubidium> (or lzma if you're using my patch)
21:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> like Rubidium said, you can turn off compression
21:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> an uncompressed map is 2048*2048*9 byte (about 40MB), plus additional data for towns, industries, vehicles etc
21:54:38 <rait> would it be considered rude if i would be suggestive in the IRC channel about someone confirming my bugreport? :) (FS#3575)
21:54:40 <PeterT_> does having too many trees on a map cause lag?
21:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT_: no, tree-handling is O(map size), not O(amount of trees)
21:55:38 <Yexo> rait: not really, but it could be annoying if you did that for every bugreport within a few minutes
21:55:48 <Yexo> give it a day or so and it'll be fixed or you'll be asked for more information
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21:59:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18940 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
21:59:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: make the crash position of aircraft a bit random by giving aircraft a chance to crash every tick they're breaking.
21:59:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Slow aircraft will crash a bit less, fast aircraft might crash a bit more
22:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: he uploaded a savegame now
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22:06:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18941 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3575]: remove the loading indicators as soon as a train crashes
22:09:39 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
22:13:40 * SpComb^ has magical busses that can drive through eachother
22:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> do you remember "road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)?"
22:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause> in TT occasionally road vehicles could bunch together and get deadlocked (usually in front of a station)
22:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the "quantum effects" part resolves those deadlocks by disabling the collision detection for road vehicles
22:16:35 <andythenorth> what are the quantum effects exactly? Can you send two trucks off in opposite directions, then set the speed of one by measuring the other?
22:16:54 <andythenorth> Do they unload discrete amounts when light falls on them?
22:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, but they can occupy the same space
22:17:15 <andythenorth> If there's a truck in a box with a radioactive source, is the truck alive or dead?
22:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "tunnel through each other"
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22:33:40 <Rubidium> doesn't look very hub'n'spoke to me
22:33:57 <SpComb^> it you look closely, it actually follows the topology of the roads pretty well
22:34:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18942 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature [FS#2678]: add a setting to reduce/disable aircraft crashes
22:35:04 <blathijs> SpComb^: What is it?
22:36:13 <SpComb^> 300 road vehicles without any orders and then just stick random bus stops everywhere
22:36:30 <SpComb^> sadly, it doesn't actually seem to be profitable
22:38:57 <Rubidium> oh shoot... why do forget so many 'parties'?
22:39:14 <Rubidium> like yesterday was the 500th day of download statistics
22:40:01 <Rubidium> 11 days ago was the 1 year anniversary of bananas
22:40:23 <Rubidium> ~4 days ago we hit 1 million downloads since the new server
22:40:53 <Rubidium> yes, average of 2000 downloads/day
22:42:06 <Rubidium> for fun of it, the 17th (anniversary of bananas) showed the largest 30 day download average for both bananas and the binaries
22:42:36 <Rubidium> 4000 binaries vs 38000 bananas items
22:43:21 <Rubidium> bananas already passed 6.5 million downloads
22:44:18 <Rubidium> which would mean, accounting for the shorter period bananas is live that per downloaded binary 10 bananas items are downloaded
22:45:18 <Rubidium> and with the mirroring of the binaries in place bananas uses 50% of the main server's bandwidth
22:45:38 <Xaroth> in other words, bananas patch needs to get in asap :P
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23:01:51 <Nite_Owl> I hope it was not something I typed
23:05:36 <Xaroth> When's the last time you showered? :P
23:07:38 <Rubidium> so it's the soap that stinks
23:08:20 <Nite_Owl> well I was at my neighbors doing the geek thing most of the afternoon
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23:17:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18943 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Feature [FS#2885]: make it possible to change newgame settings from within a game via the console (use setting_newgame instead of setting)
23:32:33 <SpComb^> Conversion from OTTD savegame without gamelog: version 92, 0
23:33:07 <Rubidium> that there's no logging of game changes etc. from before that load of the savegame
23:33:18 <SpComb^> but what's that "version 92, 0"?
23:33:20 <Rubidium> and that the savegame version that was loaded was 92
23:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> 0 is the "minor version *DO NOT USE*" bit...
23:36:53 <SpComb^> although I guess that in this case, it's loading a savegame that was converted earlier?
23:38:25 <Rubidium> he loaded a 0.6 savegame, then after a while he enabled dynamic engines and added a load of NewGRFs
23:38:44 <Rubidium> oh, the 0.6 savegame came with the rivers newgrf
23:38:45 <SpComb^> and then saved it, and later when he tries to load it, it crashes?
23:38:58 <Nite_Owl> Does that mean that settings from the console are now written to the .cfg ??
23:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: why would you get that impression?
23:39:31 <Yexo> Nite_Owl: only if you use "setting_newgame <name> <value>" instead of "setting <name> <value>"
23:40:07 <Rubidium> SpComb^: then I think it happens between clicking and resetting the game state/loading the other game
23:40:15 <Yexo> "newgame settings" = "settings that are saved in the config file"
23:40:33 <Nite_Owl> I only ask because of something similar I posted about on The Forum about an hour ago
23:40:40 <Rubidium> but without a dmp+pdb+exe there's not much that can be gathered from that
23:40:58 <Rubidium> the crash cause is a segmentation fault though
23:45:19 <Nite_Owl> So basically if you use the "setting_newgame" command it will change the behavior in the current game and in the .cfg
23:46:09 <Rubidium> no, the current game won't be influenced
23:47:00 <Nite_Owl> Okay - this comes up a lot with the resetting of wait times at signals to 255
23:47:45 <Yexo> if you use "setting <name> <value>" while you're in the main menu you change the config value (but that behavior didn't change)
23:48:17 <Rubidium> SpComb^: there is a tool that can give you a clue about the crash location based on the location given in the crash log; it requires the .exe or .pdb (don't know which) and I don't know how it's called
23:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> when it says "loaded old savegame with rivers.grf" then i guess it's a scenario
23:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but that likely doesn't add much to the diagnosis ;)
23:49:28 <SpComb^> Rubidium: I think I'll just wait for a .sav or .dmp
23:49:31 <Rubidium> I do know that it's installed in one of the Windows VMs I "got", but I don't have access to the VMs
23:49:43 <Rubidium> so can't give the name
23:49:50 <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all
23:49:58 <Rubidium> I know it was a set of source files from MS' site that you had to compile yourself
23:50:07 <PeterT> Terkhen is an Openttd dev now?!
23:50:14 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's certainly plausible
23:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it took him 43 ticks to hit the pause button ;)
23:51:18 <Rubidium> SmatZ: would it be possible to detect scenarios and log that? Like no companies means it must be a scenario, although in the case of a scenario with some stupid AI that won't help
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23:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: can't it remember whether it was started by the "load game" or "play scenario" buttons?
23:52:41 <Yexo> only not for old scenarios/savegames
23:52:47 <Rubidium> although rename .sav to .scn or vice versa and... well, you're screwed
23:53:11 <Rubidium> although you won't prevent that with my 'trick'
23:53:30 <Yexo> you'll see a "game mode changed" if you load a scenario file that's made in a version that supports the gamelog
23:58:36 <glx> [00:48:28] <@Rubidium> SpComb^: there is a tool that can give you a clue about the crash location based on the location given in the crash log; it requires the .exe or .pdb (don't know which) and I don't know how it's called <-- crashfinder (but it's hard to find)
23:58:54 <glx> easier to load the dmp in MSVC :)
continue to next day ⏵
