IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-01-16
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00:08:12 <Rexxars> first of all, I'm drunk, sorry
00:08:44 <Rexxars> anywho.. I work as a consultant, and was recently hired by this company in our nations capital
00:09:14 <Sevalecan> this is a fascinating story.
00:09:22 <Rexxars> so I came to this place, and after a while I got talking with some of the people who work there.. turns out like 50% of these people have played openttd
00:09:47 <Rexxars> I've got an ottd game lined up this wednesday, couldnt be more excited tbh
00:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> is there spam in that?
00:12:18 <Rubidium> so 50% of drunk people have played OpenTTD?
00:12:29 <Rubidium> then the drunk people issue is highly overrated :)
00:13:11 <Rexxars> no, that wasnt the point... these people are not drunk
00:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so you know more people that played openttd than are drunk?
00:15:26 <Rexxars> ah fuck it, this is going nowehere... I was making a point that it was awesome how many people play ottd these days ^^
00:15:33 <SmatZ> no? it's friday evening!
00:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> friday is feed the trolls day?
00:16:45 <Rubidium> but... it's saturday...
00:16:53 <Rubidium> or at least, that's what screen's telling me
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00:17:37 <SmatZ> right, though... it still belongs to friday, it will be saturday when I wake up on saturday :-p
00:17:51 <SmatZ> last time I woke up was friday
00:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the concept of "midnight" as end of day has faded during the last century
00:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause> starting with the widespread introduction of electric light, culminating in worldwide realtime communication
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02:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> guru3 is having problems, apparently...
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04:06:08 <Sevalecan> hmmm... my trains don't appear to go into depots for maintenance during their extremely long trek?
04:06:24 <Sevalecan> is it because there are depot orders in the queue(they refit at each end)? :P
04:49:32 <Sevalecan> is there a way to get it to maintain as needed without sending it to a "nearest" or specific depot right after a stop even so?
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09:27:04 <Rubidium> it's morning already?
09:28:16 <andythenorth> sleepless night?
09:29:14 <Rubidium> no, just bad that I need to go to the shops to get something to eat next few days
09:29:47 <Rubidium> especially when my bed is at such a nice temperature
09:33:04 <peter1138> hmm, i wonder where i can find XP professional media...
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09:42:33 <HackaLittleBit> rubidium: signal.cpp is complaining, you took out #include "company_base.h" on line 472
09:43:09 <HackaLittleBit> assert(Company::IsValidID(owner));
09:45:03 <HackaLittleBit> the assert on line 472 triggers
09:45:11 <peter1138> company_base.h wasn't removed...
09:45:37 <HackaLittleBit> because you took out company_base.h header file
09:45:49 <HackaLittleBit> from the includes
09:45:53 <peter1138> it was added, not removed
09:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> HackaLittleBit: maybe you saved an older version after updating?
09:48:30 <HackaLittleBit> my fault damned
09:48:47 <HackaLittleBit> sorry to wake you up guys
09:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> err... "make: *** /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/trunk/objs/debug: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden. Schluss." <- something's not working with the "this checkout was moved within the directory structure" detection
09:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to work after the second try...
09:54:15 <Rubidium> yeah, more or less a somewhat unresolvable issue with make; if you do the reconfigure and remake the Makefile it will still execute the old makefile
09:55:21 <Rubidium> especially because calling the 'source' Makefile's location in code in the old Makefile
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10:13:25 <peter1138> so when do we switch to cmake or waf? heh
10:16:50 <Rubidium> although... we could simplify the compiling significantly by ditching the crap that's needed for Mac OS X cross compiling
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10:49:51 * Tera plays TTD theme *tadadada dada daaa dadadada daaa DA DA*
10:50:27 * SpComb fines Tera for an unlicensed public performance of a copyrighted work
10:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> over here, you can play unlicensed music, as long as you fill out the GEMA sheet
10:52:59 <Terkhen> what text editor do you use on linux for C++?
10:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> they'll then tell you how much you have to pay depending on potential audience and stuff...
10:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i use Kate
10:56:09 <Terkhen> I'm trying kate right now, there's a few details I don't like but it is way better than gedit
10:57:58 <Terkhen> vim seems to have a steep learning curve, I'm looking for something simpler
10:58:58 <Terkhen> I should give it a try when I have more time, I heard it can do anything
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11:09:03 * roboboy wonders if it would even be possible to allow veiwing of tunnels as they are but in a quasi underground mode
11:09:27 <roboboy> ie so that one can place where a train is in a long tunnel easily
11:10:34 <roboboy> I don't want anything fancy like rct's underground mode as thats nie on impossible with the current code
11:12:17 <Alberth> why is 'somewhere in the tunnel' not good enough?
11:13:19 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: there were some attempts at a "terrain slicing" (i.e. "paint everything up to height X"(
11:17:49 <Bluelight> What config parameter sets the size of the map og game creation?
11:17:55 <Bluelight> In the config file..
11:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> size is 2^map_x*2^map_y
11:18:52 <Bluelight> If I want 1024 in one direction what whould that be then?
11:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> allowed range is 6..11
11:20:44 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
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12:09:42 <peter1138> hmm, what's the purpose of the articulated buses in egrvts?
12:10:03 <peter1138> a 1980 double-decker takes 72 passengers and goes 45mph
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12:10:14 <Nite_Owl> to carry more passengers ??
12:10:20 <peter1138> a 1990 articulated takes 70 passengers and goes 42 mph
12:11:06 <peter1138> also it costs more to buy and run
12:11:33 <peter1138> hmm, loading speed might be different... that's never shown in the gui
12:12:30 <Nite_Owl> passengers do not have to climb to the top of the bus
12:12:33 <Rubidium> peter1138: my personal experience with articulated busses and especially bi-articulated busses is that they can driver *much* faster through a city than an unarticulated bus
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12:16:13 <Rubidium> although I have to agree that in OpenTTD cornering speed is kinda fixed
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12:49:01 <thingwath> would it be possible to allow much faster loading/unloading of longer articulated bus than a double-decker, in openttd? That could be an advantage for them... (for city mass transit use)
12:53:01 <peter1138> that is already possible, yes
12:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish it said the loading speed in the buy window
12:56:28 <peter1138> i was thinking that
12:56:37 <peter1138> not sure how to express it
12:58:01 <Nite_Owl> how is it expressed in the nfo code
12:59:32 <Nite_Owl> i.e. - does a certain value equal a certain speed
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13:01:18 <Nite_Owl> then a certain range of values would be considered slow, the next up slightly less slow, etc.
13:01:59 <Rubidium> what's fast for a RV can be slow for a ship
13:02:52 <Rubidium> what about 'n' per day?
13:02:58 <Nite_Owl> Ahhh - so then the values are global across all vehicle types
13:03:20 <frosch123> compute mean, median, standard derivation, and use the quantiles to express the speed :p
13:05:51 <Nite_Owl> can that be done in the background and then have something a bit more meaningful expressed to the player
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13:08:45 <Nite_Owl> anyone know if Galactic Civilizations II is a worthwhile game
13:10:07 <|Terkhen|> I still have to find a 4x MOO-like game better than MOO 2 :/
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13:10:16 * Nite_Owl is updating his software library to fit the new PC
13:10:56 <Nite_Owl> I still have MOO 2 but have yet to see if it will work on Windows 7
13:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> moo2 works best in dosbox
13:11:30 <Nite_Owl> I did get Civilization III to work
13:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> we even played multiplayer a few weeks ago
13:12:06 <Nite_Owl> I have a Windows 95 version of MOO 2
13:12:25 <Nite_Owl> actually I think it is both 95 and DOS
13:14:15 <Nite_Owl> I was also looking at F1 games, I have Grand Prix 3, and was looking to get Grand Prix 4. Amazon has it for $130.00 !!!!
13:14:24 <Terkhen> anyone has tried FreeOrion?
13:15:02 <Nite_Owl> never heard of it (activates Google)
13:15:24 <Terkhen> I'll try it after exams
13:15:33 <Terkhen> I miss that kind of games
13:16:13 <frosch123> moo2 works best in 98 vm :p
13:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: yes, the only difference between win95 and dos moo2 is the .exe, the CD contains both
13:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have you tried multiplayer over network before you judged "best"?
13:19:20 <frosch123> i player it multiplayer only once, and i concluded that turn-based games are not suitable for multiplayer
13:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, i tend to be the one that finishes the turn last... so it's kind of beneficial for me to have turn based games ;)
13:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> on real time games i tend to be crushed by people who control the game more efficiently...
13:21:33 <Rubidium> turn based openttd :)
13:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, i just don't play multiplayer openttd ;)
13:22:10 * SpComb doesn't play competitive multiplayer openttd
13:22:24 <SpComb> co-op with a friend is fine though
13:22:31 <SpComb> although that does have certain conflicts
13:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggested to the people cooperative openttd, but they weren't convinced...
13:23:10 <SpComb> it can be a pain if you have a couple people playing with different styles
13:23:34 <peter1138> coop openttd can be fun
13:23:37 <peter1138> not openttdcoop though ;p
13:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the others were not really experienced
13:24:20 <SpComb> well, even openttdcoop has some variation on their styles
13:24:39 <SpComb> not all their games are the same
13:25:25 <peter1138> IS2+CD is basicaly designed for coop play, heh
13:25:51 <SpComb> peter1138: well, if you can get the people to build some kind of cohesive networks together
13:25:58 <SpComb> it requires some rules/leadership/discipline
13:26:37 <peter1138> has to be people you know, of course
13:29:08 <Ammler> yes, that is why openttdcoop needs the rules, some rules are also like tips for newbies
13:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> we also tried MAX multiplayer, but one of the people got really pissed about it really fast, so we stopped :p
13:31:16 <SpComb> I really liked the game I played with a friend over christmas, but the way that basically ended up working out was me playing the absolute dictator, so it's not that great a concept :P
13:33:09 <Ammler> he, that is how the public openttdcoop games work too, just you elect the dictator at game start (plan) :-)
13:36:16 <SpComb> except in this case there's no plan, the focus is on organic growth :P
13:37:15 <peter1138> my game plan: find larger cities, build a route between them, preferably encompassing smaller towns
13:38:00 <SpComb> this is with DBSetXL + 4x daylength thrown in... game starting in 1921
13:42:21 <Nite_Owl> Free Orion is not worth it yet - still in early Alpha
13:42:25 <SpComb> so a painfully slow game
13:43:20 <Nite_Owl> many feature not yet even implimented - screen shots look nice though
13:44:20 <Nite_Owl> The only thing that makes me question Galactic Civilizations II is the lack of tactical combat
13:45:19 <Terkhen> I'll have to keep waiting then
13:45:26 <Nite_Owl> other than that it looks fine and is fairly cheap
13:47:27 <Nite_Owl> I also have a real good attack copter sim that I have see if I can get working
13:47:49 <Nite_Owl> plus redownloading all of the add ons
13:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> MAX? <- you don't know "M.A.X. - Mechanized Assault and Exploration"?
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13:52:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18822 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename YAPF-related container classes and their members to better fit other container classes. (skidd13)
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13:58:17 <SpComb> but more players != good, always
13:58:36 <SpComb> and Singaporekid needs to learn how to not build track that blocks D:
13:58:41 <SpComb> a bunch of his stations are deadlocked
14:02:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18823 /trunk/src/misc/ (array.hpp fixedsizearray.hpp): -Codechange: Some uints for unsigned ints. (skidd13)
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14:12:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18824 /trunk/src/misc/ (array.hpp fixedsizearray.hpp): -Codechange: Turn some public members into protected ones. (skidd13)
14:17:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18825 /trunk/src/misc/fixedsizearray.hpp: -Codechange: Sometimes code is shorter if you do not use a function for deduplication. (skidd13)
14:22:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18826 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Unifiy return value of (SmallArray|FixedSizeArray)::(Append|AppendC) with other containers. (skidd13)
14:24:04 <evilNirvana> i'ts compiling first try
14:24:15 <evilNirvana> i must have done something wrong
14:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: was that an undeduplication? :p
14:24:40 <Rubidium> yeah, you've either followed the manual or you're not using Windows
14:25:36 <evilNirvana> Rubidium: Linux-Debian, and i just wget && tar zxf && ./configure --enable-dedicated && make
14:26:01 <evilNirvana> and it's working. ._.
14:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> evilNirvana: occasionally you want to make sure you have stuff like zlib-devel installed
14:26:35 <evilNirvana> forgot to tell it to use 8 threads
14:26:58 <evilNirvana> Eddi|zuHause: i have zlib. i do IRCd devel and a lot of compiling
14:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think zlib is the only really vital dependency, everything else should be fairly optional
14:27:53 <evilNirvana> [SRC] Compiling window.cpp
14:27:54 <evilNirvana> [SRC] Linking openttd
14:27:54 <evilNirvana> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ottd/openttd-1.0.0-beta2/objs/release'
14:27:54 <evilNirvana> ottd@rachael:~/openttd-1.0.0-beta2$
14:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> especially for dedicated
14:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but ./configure should tell you hints about optional stuff that is missing
14:28:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: configure fails fatally if you don't have zlib (and recently liblzo2) and you don't use --without-zlib / --without-liblzo2
14:29:26 <glx> beta1 and beta2 are not impacted by liblzo2
14:29:59 <evilNirvana> make clean all install -j8
14:31:34 <glx> you didn't set it in configure?
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15:11:35 <SpComb> Singaporekid: Duckship
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15:24:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r18827 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix: Center main window using smallmap widget edge coordinates.
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16:45:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18828 /trunk/src/misc/fixedsizearray.hpp: -Fix (r18823): Decrementing uints is different to ints.
16:52:16 <Hirundo> what are the units of TIC/TOC? (profiling macros)
16:55:12 <Hirundo> so there are around 2.5*10^9 of those per second on the average PC?
16:55:36 <arachnist> depends on what you call an average pc
16:55:36 <peter1138> no, only on the PC that was measured on
16:56:14 <peter1138> you can use it for comparing benchmarks from a single machine
16:56:18 <Rubidium> and whether the cpu runs at max speed or in speedstep/coolnquiet etc. mode
16:56:22 <peter1138> results from different machines are meaningless
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16:58:54 <Hirundo> I'm not intending to do any cross-PC benchmarking, just trying to translate LARGE_NUMBER into something I can comprehend
16:59:28 <evilNirvana> LARGE_NUMBER is what,
16:59:43 <Rubidium> cpu cycles isn't comprehendable?
17:01:31 <Rubidium> now converting the number of cpu cycles into number of ops... that would be interesting :)
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17:47:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18829 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Codechange: Don't free memory from within audio mixer callback handler as it may be required to be real-time safe.
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18:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the title screen could use what's known in the model railway as "shadow station" [i.e. secret underground paths that store lots of different trains who can pop out at random tunnel entrances]
18:21:36 <peter1138> they're called depots
18:21:48 <KenjiE20> we used to call them Fiddle Yards
18:22:03 <Rubidium> and the shadows are just whatever place is outside of the map
18:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not entirely, because they can't magically jump to other depots
18:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: problem is, you have plenty of non-visible space on the top and left, but the bottom and right might eventually become visible on huge screens
18:22:52 <Bluelight> Yea, how does that work?
18:23:54 <Bluelight> Damn I'm tired.. :p
18:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and one can't timetable depot visits...
18:23:59 * Rubidium ponders whether he should design an intro game too
18:24:29 <Alberth> I was also considering doing that
18:24:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be waaay more fun with grfs...
18:24:51 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but you already have 6 GRFs you can choose from!
18:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> 80% of all new features are grf-related...
18:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i have two static newgrfs ;)
18:25:18 <peter1138> submit a patch to allow it ;)
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18:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the two problems would be gracefully falling back to default graphics, and notifying the user to get the grfs from bananas
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18:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18830 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
18:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
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19:08:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18831 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
19:08:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change [FS#3537]: do not go into the crashlog handler in case loading a
19:08:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: savegame misses with missing NewGRFs. This way the load game crash handler gets
19:08:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: better visibility and the user is instructed to find the missing NewGRFs before
19:08:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: filing a bug report
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19:24:31 * peter1138 suspects there is no need for a jack audio driver
19:25:07 <Rubidium> peter1138: doesn't sdl do that?
19:28:48 <peter1138> it was easy to make one, but i don't see much point in actually adding it :)
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20:01:32 <sawtooth> i do run jack from time to time but not 100% of the time. I mainly start it up to run the linux version of Pianoteq.
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20:04:00 <peter1138> pianoteq is good stuff
20:05:10 <PeterT> I'm testing your batch scripts now
20:05:17 <PeterT> wanna go into another channel?
20:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "1 x AMD PC QUAD PHENOM 9650 4GB 500GB 9500GT-1GB Computer" <-- how much do you think is that worth nowadays?
20:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Bluelight: not sure if that tells me anything :p
20:07:54 <thingwath> norwegian money, obviously
20:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 8000 Norwegische Kronen = 979,641986 Euro <-- that's a little much, don't you think?
20:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i saw a computer worth 1000 euro, the euro did not even exist...
20:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the offer is 360€, and i want to know if that's fair
20:13:15 <thingwath> I'd buy it for that price. :) Even though... is there any warranty?
20:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd expect so, looks like a commercial offer to me...
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20:52:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18832 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: some indentation whitespace.
21:00:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18833 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Cleanup: Const-ness and style
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21:38:19 <Rhamphoryncus> my computer's a quad 9550. Twice the ram but no dedicated video card
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22:01:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18834 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/core/os_abstraction.h): -Fix [FS#3538]: compilation failed on OpenBSD (matze)
22:05:36 <Tera> okey there's something weird in the Oil Refinerys catchment area.
22:06:07 <Tera> if I build a station 3 blocks away from it, it catches good but not oil. 2 blocks away it accepts oil as well.
22:06:33 <Rubidium> only a few tiles of the whole refinery accept the oil, not all tiles
22:07:24 <frosch123> use the landarea-information tool under the questionmark to discover which tiles
22:07:53 <Tera> thanks. I figured it out already. I'm just wondering is this intended ;) I guess so
22:10:04 <Tera> too bad you can't refit airplanes to oil, hah
22:10:31 <Tera> although it's not that unrealistic as there are tanker planes.
22:10:59 <fjb> They are usually not used to transport oil to a refinery.
22:11:42 <fjb> Some planes of av8 are refittable to everything.
22:15:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18835 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Fix: Large sounds could still cause an overflow with high sample rates, causing them to be cut off.
22:16:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18836 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make TrainUpdateSpeed a class function and update some comments (Terkhen)
22:17:07 <peter1138> (i.e. if samplerate was higher than 65535... heh)
22:17:25 <Rubidium> oh... you need 96000 Hz?
22:18:02 <peter1138> i don't, but it's nice to make it work
22:18:09 <peter1138> 88200, 96000, 192000 etc ;)
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22:19:51 <peter1138> actually i tend to run at 11025
22:20:13 <peter1138> i had crackly audio with 44100 sometimes
22:20:36 <peter1138> seems like sdl's audio stuff doesn't recover from xruns
22:20:42 <peter1138> either that or dodgy alsa drivers, i suppose
22:22:37 <peter1138> hehe, that sample rate conversion code is so dirty :)
22:22:46 <peter1138> still, nice and fast
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22:26:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18837 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename DrawStationTileSeq() to DrawCommonTileSeq() and move it to separate file.
22:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> 88200, 96000, 192000 etc ;) <-- you want dogs to listen to your music? :p
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22:27:58 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, 192000 is a marketing gimmick, yes
22:28:51 <Terkhen> using hg resolve, is there any way to show unresolved conflicts?
22:29:49 <Terkhen> I mean something like rej files when using patch
22:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the diff should contain ">>>>>>" and "<<<<<" lines
22:30:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18838 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange [FS#3524]: reorganisation of the train acceleration code plus some minor optimisations (Terkhen)
22:30:45 <Terkhen> forget it, the conflicts are gone :P
22:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i rarely deal with patches that are likely to conflict...
22:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> my patches tend to be very short...
22:32:32 <Rubidium> mine too... after I commit them :)
22:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> once a patch of mine was committed after one year, and i totally forgot about it ;)
22:33:39 <Terkhen> I should make shorter patches too
22:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a patch that was valid over 10000 revisions with only three conflicts ever
22:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> [the fourth being the patch made obsolete]
22:39:38 <Rubidium> let me guess, I broke it all of the times?
22:40:10 <peter1138> after... 3½ years of being gone
22:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not sure about the third time...
22:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it was some renaming of a variable in a context line, but i don't remember what it was...
22:42:29 <peter1138> awww, spritegroup refcounting
22:42:32 <peter1138> those were the days
22:44:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: let's party :p
22:44:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18839 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Detriplicate drawing of spritelayouts in the GUI.
22:44:40 * Eddi|zuHause opens a bottle of Rotkäppchen
22:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> screw you, r10000 party!
22:50:10 * andythenorth coding snowy industries
22:50:17 <andythenorth> snowline can't go down to coast level, right?
22:50:44 <AC6000> i don't believe so....
22:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the wiki said something about "you can technically set this to 0, but _please_ don't do it as it'll cause a hell lot of glitches"
22:52:16 <andythenorth> that's fine, means no snow required for harbour etc
22:53:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18840 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp table/road_land.h): -Codechange: Use DrawCommonTileSeq[InGUI] for roaddepot drawing.
22:53:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: what about rivers
22:53:30 <frosch123> sea is not necessarily at level 0
22:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what if someone wants to build a harbour on a large river/lake?
22:53:55 <andythenorth> umm, and also canals. In fact, I haven't tested canals with the fishing harbour. No idea if they'll build
22:54:12 <andythenorth> I've never used rivers, so I tend to forget about them :o
22:54:22 <andythenorth> I should use rivers, they are a nice feature
22:54:31 <frosch123> if you use the watersprite as groundsprite of the industry tile, it will draw river/canal borders
22:56:57 <andythenorth> my harbour doesn't seem to build on canals. that's fine for me, wonder why though...?
22:57:44 <frosch123> maybe you check for the slopes for shore-ness?
22:58:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, i think we made it check for height level 0
22:58:28 <andythenorth> that would make sense, and is fine in this case. I think it also checks the tile for both water & land (i.e. coast)?
22:58:33 <frosch123> so build a canal/river at sea-level :p
22:59:33 <andythenorth> canals don't drag rects, just lines :|
23:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, found that, too...
23:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but rivers drag rects, not lines...
23:00:36 <peter1138> i don't know what design...
23:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: looks like an arbitrary restriction to me...
23:00:57 <Terkhen> at the scenario editor, canal do rectangles too
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23:06:00 <andythenorth> flooding sea onto canal tiles is handled quite nicely
23:07:18 <andythenorth> good way to make port facilites eye candy
23:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, people have (ab)used that for a while ;)
23:11:24 * Terkhen uploads a smaller patch this time
23:11:28 <andythenorth> fishing harbour does build on rivers in the scenario editor
23:11:34 <andythenorth> so I guess we need snow after all
23:12:04 <andythenorth> for that Siberian Lake scenario I'm sure someone is working on
23:12:54 <andythenorth> rivers look kind of sucky, should I be searching for a newgrf to improve them?
23:15:03 <peter1138> there's about 1, i think
23:15:19 <peter1138> by mb. i think it's on grfcrawler
23:15:22 <Terkhen> i think it only worked in temperate
23:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, rivers(w).grf only works in temperate
23:15:54 <frosch123> opengfx also has nice rivers
23:16:00 <frosch123> for all climates :p
23:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but there was opengfx who also had rivers
23:16:46 <andythenorth> yup opengfx is much nicer
23:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the "problem" with opengfx rivers is that they have very straight shores
23:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the rectangular corners
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