IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-12-14
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00:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, wasn't there a function to easily switch between debug and release builds? when i "./configure --enable-debug [0-3]" it recompiles everything
00:19:29 <ashb> Eddi|zuHause: use separate directories
00:19:36 <ashb> mkdir debug; cd debug; ../configure ....
00:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ashb: that's not the point
00:20:02 <ashb> does it stop it from rebuilding everything?
00:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the question
00:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the question was "did i misunderstand the feature or is it buggy?"
00:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not "how can i solve it?"
00:21:45 <ashb> if its a standard autoconf script, then its neither really
00:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a homebrew makefile
00:22:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ./configure --enable-debug=0 vs --enable-debug=[1-3] are the separate cases
00:22:36 <Rubidium> where debug=0 builds into objs/release and the rest into objs/debug
00:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i thought that was exactly what i tried...
00:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll try again when the compile is done
00:24:21 <Rubidium> probably you went from debuglevel 1 to 0 (which you didn't for a while, so it did recompile) then you went to 2 or 3 which meant full recompile
00:24:36 <Rubidium> anyhow, it works fine for me
00:26:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:28:06 <Rubidium> ashb: it isn't standard autoconf because we couldn't get that working with a Mac OS X cross compiler to get universal binaries
00:32:21 <Rubidium> we spent way more time in that cross compiler than in the whole makefile stuff
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00:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and look where it got you :p
00:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> at the brink of mental breakdown :p
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00:45:59 <rhaeder> hi all. :) I have trouble receiving the confirmation code on my server. I already white-listed your server's IP
00:48:15 <rhaeder> and where is the binary copied to when do a "make install" ?
00:48:40 <Rubidium> with confirmation code you mean getting a 'you're advertised' reply from advertise the master server?
00:49:05 <Rubidium> rhaeder: /usr/local/bin I think
00:49:24 <rhaeder> I have checked it, no openttd bin there :(
00:49:35 <Rubidium> /usr/local/games/ maybe?
00:49:47 <rhaeder> ok, "install -m 0755 bin/openttd /usr/local/bin/" w/o the quotes does the trick :)
00:50:17 <rhaeder> yes, /usr/local/games :( but that is a directory only for data dirs and no bins
00:50:47 <rhaeder> I have Debian here, and all game binaries go to /usr/games/
00:51:28 <rhaeder> or at least install a symbolic link in /usr/local/bin ?
00:52:40 <rhaeder> anyway. I want to register my account because I have found a major bug in-game
00:53:05 <Rubidium> ah, so it's that kind of confirmation code
00:53:19 <rhaeder> and the AI for pathfinding (YADF or so?) is sometimes lame :(
00:53:49 <rhaeder> but that is another bug :)
00:54:09 <Rubidium> oh... just breached 5 million bananas downloads :)
00:56:06 <Rubidium> anyhow, what's the major bug you found?
00:58:02 <rhaeder> lay out a track e.g. from coal mine to power plant. place needed block signals. let a train drive on it for some time. remove a track piece and re-add it. sometimes the train cannot ride on that replaced track :(
00:58:42 <rhaeder> I placed every 1 track piece a signal and let them ride right side (one-way signal)
00:59:04 <Rubidium> odd, a savegame would be very useful for that
00:59:39 <rhaeder> already killed, but I can play it again :)
01:00:20 <Rubidium> hmm, and what version of OpenTTD are you using?
01:00:35 <rhaeder> ah, the nightly back is running :)
01:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it tends to do that at the most inappropriate times :p
01:01:25 <rhaeder> and have you found that 'bug' when there is a crossing and sometimes a car incident happens?
01:02:19 <rhaeder> well, because of I have block signals on every track piece, the cities nearby my tracks cannot cross my tracks without a bridge, so it is save for my road vehicles to cross :)
01:02:20 <Rubidium> use more reliable cars or slower trains or path signals with more distance between them so the crossing can actually close in time
01:03:30 <rhaeder> I have prevented this by adding block signals every north-south or east-west track so the city authorities are 'forced' to build bridges above my tracks :)
01:05:30 <rhaeder> and still no confirmation mail as arrived here :(
01:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. it's totally odd, i went from --enable-debug 1 to --enable-debug 3, and it doesn't rebuild anything
01:05:56 <Rubidium> rhaeder: seem the (IRC) pm I sent you a while ago
01:07:57 <Rubidium> 2009-12-14 00:59:49 1NJxLG-0000L4-Pm == email@address R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-44): SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<email@address>: host mail.mxchange.org [217.172.186.31]: 450 4.1.7 <no-reply@openttd.org>: Sender address rejected: unverified address: host mx1.mailfiltering.nl[80.247.163.81] said: 451-4.7.1 Greylisted: http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/ 451 4.7.1 Please try again in 5.0 more minutes. (in reply to RCPT TO
01:08:12 <Rubidium> ^ it's not so strange you haven't received the mail yet when we're greylisted :)
01:09:05 <Rubidium> (for more than 2 hours)
01:14:11 <rhaeder> but I have already white-listed your server's IP?
01:15:39 <Rubidium> the SPF record lists three
01:19:22 <rhaeder> I have default GLD :)
01:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it's funny, the river drawing code works fine when i make an invalid slope into a river, except when i load a river newgrf...
01:21:46 <Rubidium> you're not receiving a conformation for tt-forums.net either?
01:22:09 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Maybe it doesn't find the matching sprite then.
01:22:26 <rhaeder> ah, that tt-forums.net welcome mail is here :)
01:22:40 <rhaeder> Rubidium: yes, now it is here
01:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it asserts in a NOT_REACHED() in a check for slopes
01:23:19 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: It was just a guess.
01:23:32 <rhaeder> Rudidium: I will play more and drive it to its limits ;)
01:24:07 <Rubidium> rhaeder: that bug report is certainly missing what version of trunk it is and that savegame would be really really helpful because it behaves as expected for me
01:24:37 <Rubidium> that's totally different tomorrow
01:25:14 <Rubidium> and if you had posted a savegame I could've figured it our from that
01:25:28 <rhaeder> ok, how can I edit it?
01:25:32 <rhaeder> please don't delete :)
01:26:37 <Rubidium> comments are usually enough :)
01:27:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
01:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i add the river-random-bits in the query window?
01:29:08 <Rubidium> with lots of custom code; why do you want it there?
01:29:25 <Rubidium> otherwise a debug build ran from the console will show you what's on the map (including the random bits)
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01:39:18 <rhaeder> and what is the earliest year?
01:42:02 <Rubidium> 0, but depending on the climate somewhere 1920-1950
01:42:21 <rhaeder> I have "normal" climate and can choose 1800
01:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, i need to pay more attention to the nick, not only the colour...
01:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i always think some totally different person writes something
01:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and then wonder "why would HE ask that?"
01:43:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause, free tip: turn of colours
01:43:42 <Risugami> hmm hadn't noticed nick length is very long here
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01:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's even worse ;)
01:45:11 <Rubidium> depends on the debate whether blakc and white are colours
01:49:26 <fjb> Black and white are no colors.
01:50:51 <sparrL> Eddi|zuHause: how many colors does your client use?
01:51:01 <sparrL> mine does fg and bg with 7 colors each, so there are rarely collisions
01:51:46 <sparrL> you are white on dark red
01:51:53 <sparrL> rhaeder is light blue on blue
01:52:13 <sparrL> weaselboy246 and Rubidium are both light blue on white :(
01:52:22 <Rubidium> mine does only 1 colour; yellow for when I'm highlighted, otherwise when I say things white and for the rest grayish on a nice black background
01:52:38 <sparrL> oh, i remember using a client like that. unbearable
01:52:42 <fjb> Too many colors tend to make it unreadable (especially background colors).
01:52:54 <sparrL> fjb: i only color the nicks, not the chat
01:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, background colours are bad
01:53:10 <sparrL> someone say sparrL so i can screenshot :)
01:53:22 <weaselboy246> I use mIRC and have colors set to black normal user, navy voiced and blue op. white bg
01:53:36 <weaselboy246> orange for my own nick
01:54:22 <Rubidium> irssi + bitlbee + screen + ssh is more than enough
01:54:57 <sparrL> i can't stand console IRC... too much information to be conveyed
01:55:10 <weaselboy246> yea i like irssi for terminal use
01:56:57 *** Rubidium sets mode: +v Eddi|zuHause
01:57:26 <Rubidium> and now weaselboy246 doesn't recognise Eddi anymore :)
01:58:40 <weaselboy246> lol. honestly since i got my new lcd monitor, navy and black show very little difference on here
01:59:49 <Rubidium> anyhow, even irssi on half screen shows more than enough for me
02:01:47 <sparrL> I haven't used irssi in a long time... generally when using console IRC, I miss having the channel and nick list on screen and activity indicators per channel and person
02:02:11 <KenjiE20|LT> try weechat then :)
02:03:14 <Rubidium> the nick list is usually longer than it can display anyway
02:03:33 <Rubidium> and activity indicators are given per channel (including PM 'channels')
02:04:23 <weaselboy246> just be sure to turn on windows
02:04:42 <weaselboy246> that way you can switch between windows with alt button
02:05:03 <weaselboy246> instead of everything in a single window
02:16:44 <rhaeder> another question: TTD doesn't have it, but OpenTTD does have a tender? for what is this for? lowering break-down chance?
02:17:34 <Rubidium> does nothing but look good
02:21:01 <weaselboy246> one of the train sets, forgot which, has steam engines with it built on. looks nice.
02:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i give up for today... it places rivers, but somehow they don't end up in the places they were generated at...
02:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "do not go uphill" part possibly needs work ;)
02:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (tile, height, diagdir, next tile)
02:40:48 <weaselboy246> trying to add rivers to auto generation?
02:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the point
02:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but somehow the coordinates get messed up
02:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hey cool. google can even correct "offset keyboard" errors ;)
03:07:47 <sparrL> how do I convince trains to take detours to be serviced?
03:07:55 <sparrL> that is, if my depots aren't on the main line
03:11:34 <weaselboy246> use a conditional to check if it needs service
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03:41:07 <rhaeder> that trams is a nice feature. I was already missing that in TTD :)
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03:59:54 <sparrL> got my first crash in a recent nightly
04:00:06 <sparrL> which is a signal that it is time to stop playing for the evening
04:04:20 <sparrL> guess i should try to reproduce it...
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08:24:40 <rhaeder> again that appalling thing :( I have constructed some tracks nearby a city where I am present with "good" to "outstanding" ratings for my tram stations and now the city authority is appalling :(
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08:59:17 <edeca> rhaeder: Heh, I get that all the time
08:59:23 <edeca> rhaeder: Even with "permissive" in the config
08:59:31 <edeca> rhaeder: Plant some trees and make them happy again :)
08:59:47 <edeca> rhaeder: Or put a bus station in the town before you build rails, that way you can get back to "good" quickly
09:00:11 <Noldo> are you sure "some tracks" isn't "big main line with the usual terraforming"
09:00:28 <Rubidium> probably 'just' removing some houses
09:03:30 <rhaeder> the trees-trick worked :D
09:03:44 <rhaeder> "bribing" with nature ;)
09:05:06 <weaselboy246> btw try planting alot of trees then destroy them :P
09:05:14 <weaselboy246> then plant more trees
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09:14:37 <edeca> weaselboy246: Don't you loose reputation by destroying them?
09:15:04 <weaselboy246> yea but less than you earn by planting
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10:17:11 <planetmaker> The notification e-mails about changes in flyspray issues don't have full links in them anymore:
10:17:11 <planetmaker> More information can be found at the following URL:
10:17:35 <Rubidium> fucking fracking flyspray
10:18:03 <Rubidium> you fix one thing and break a million others
10:20:55 <planetmaker> must have happened between 7th and 9th of this month
10:26:21 <Rubidium> which is why it's very odd that it's broken now
10:28:05 <planetmaker> mysterious are the paths of the.... bugs.
10:29:50 <edeca> in all their buggy mysteriousness?
10:31:22 <planetmaker> yes, works again. Thanks Rubidium
10:33:16 <peter1138> i guess i need a varaction for ground type
10:33:59 <peter1138> it already needs a varaction to choose between open and closed
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10:36:31 <Noldo> peter1138: what are you fidling with?
10:37:57 <peter1138> and thus, level crossings
10:56:52 <peter1138> it'll no doubt be slower, mind you
10:56:57 <peter1138> but only for visible crossings
10:57:16 <peter1138> 6 sprites on a tile instead of 1
10:57:28 <peter1138> plus varactions instead of a static sprite id
11:00:07 <edeca> it runs perfectly well on my machine ;)
11:01:40 <peter1138> i've never benchmarked it
11:04:48 <edeca> what am i missing if i only ever get "far end" orders with stations using the nightly?
11:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you can click on them
11:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> to change it to "middle" or "near end"
11:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and you can set an option for the default value in the advanced settings
11:19:37 <edeca> Ah, I assumed it was based on where I clicked on the station.
11:19:45 <edeca> But then that wouldn't work, as near/far could be either end
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11:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so when do you NOT like it? :p
11:58:06 <weaselboy246> one before that is funny too.
11:58:39 * peter1138 wonders what's left with railtypes
11:58:51 <peter1138> oh yes, depots and tunnels
11:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: a varaction2 that can check the 4 neighbouring tiles?
11:59:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (like the elrail-catenary code does)
12:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> for example: chose on which side to draw the 3rd rail
12:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or more insane: smoother looking curves ;)
12:02:43 <weaselboy246> smoother curves? as in larger than 1 tile turn? think we need more sprites for that to look decent
12:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, my point is that it's not some revolutionary new concept, the code already does it, so it might as well be opened to newgrf
12:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and then let the grf authors figure out how to abuse it
12:03:43 <peter1138> not quite the same :p
12:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what a skifree monster is...
12:05:41 <weaselboy246> SkiFree, from microsoft entertainment pack
12:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and you don't have to tell us about all the other 673 comics that you read
12:06:36 <weaselboy246> once you get too far down monster, an abominal snowman jumps out and eats you
12:06:51 <weaselboy246> believe me, i've seen the all lol
12:18:26 <edeca> welcome to the internet :)
12:18:39 <edeca> exits are here -> here <- and here ^
12:18:54 <edeca> peter1138: are the railtypes something which will end up in trunk?
12:19:00 <edeca> forgive my ignorance, i'm not sure what they do
12:20:22 <planetmaker> they allow to define rail types as you can define trains or vehicles
12:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: ah, before i forget it, there should be a way to draw only the front (or only back) half of the level crossing (for adjacent level crossings to leave out the "middle")
12:20:54 <edeca> so they aren't limited to the 4 that are in game, but by whatever newgrf authors decide?
12:21:03 <edeca> so if you load narrowgauge.grf you get a nice new rail type?
12:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: they'll be limited to 16
12:21:26 <edeca> not dreadful, why would you need more than that?
12:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: you get to 16 quite easily, if you factor in maximum speed/axle weight, and combinations of catenary and 3rd rail
12:22:30 <edeca> peter1138: third rail on the lowest?
12:22:51 <peter1138> two new railtypes there
12:22:52 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: ah fair enough
12:23:00 <peter1138> third rail, and third rail with catenary
12:23:22 <Rubidium> looking decently old
12:23:25 <edeca> is it likely to get into trunk soon/sometime/never?
12:24:03 <weaselboy246> wasn't that on a grf?
12:24:26 <Rubidium> edeca: you know you're talking to peter 'oh, I have a patch for that' n/1138?
12:24:49 <edeca> but that's pretty awesome.
12:24:58 * edeca makes peter1138 a coffee
12:26:02 <peter1138> hmm, i should update the metro grf
12:26:56 <planetmaker> there's one on bananas... but I doubt you mean it...
12:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't understand it, the regular coordinate translation is "(y << MapLogX()) + x", in tgp.cpp the translation "x + y * dim_x" is used. to me they look the same but the results i get when using the "TileAddByDiagDir" functions don't support that...
12:28:08 <edeca> hrm, actually, i did see the metro trains (i.e. london tube trains) in the 2cc set I think
12:28:18 <edeca> i didn't quite know how they worked or what railtype they were for
12:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: it's a monorail replacement, afair
12:28:55 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Cool. To be honest, tube trains that run above ground seem odd.
12:28:59 <edeca> But more useful than monorail IMO
12:29:03 <peter1138> hmm, this it the original metro :s
12:29:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it should be the same, unless dim_x is incorrect
12:29:32 <planetmaker> edeca, yes, the 2ccTrainSet is designed to be used with the metrorails newgrf - which replaces monorail by some other kind of rail
12:30:05 <peter1138> it's the original non-overlay format
12:30:13 <peter1138> but i'm sure i did it
12:30:17 <edeca> planetmaker: Oops, I'd better load that then :)
12:30:32 * peter1138 wonders where that went
12:30:40 <planetmaker> edeca, it's just optics. But it sure looks better to have metro trains run on rails than monorail.
12:31:58 <planetmaker> no worries. Though it shows that readmes are not read :-(
12:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but the tile "afb (59, 43): 4.8125004 3-> abb" in the heightmap ends up as "River Tile: ad0 (16, 43) 4" in the map... :(
12:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause> where 16 = 59-43
12:34:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so somewhere the address translation goes wrong...
12:34:16 <edeca> planetmaker: No, sadly they aren't. There are too many, too out of date etc. I know that means I'm a whiny little sod :)
12:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't find it
12:34:39 *** bartaway is now known as bartavelle
12:34:41 <edeca> planetmaker: The new content management system is excellent though. If package "hints" could be given (i.e. you loaded A which recommends B) that would rock
12:34:53 <peter1138> Rubidium, "ouchy train" ?
12:35:07 <peter1138> (is that the french tyre system?)
12:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's the rubber-tyre metro?
12:35:24 <edeca> They have that in San Francisco, really weird
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12:35:35 <peter1138> ah, ouchy is the station name, hehe
12:37:09 <peter1138> that tunnel is excessively large
12:37:19 <peter1138> hmm, and it's not a tunnel anyway
12:37:28 <peter1138> too much daylight on it
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12:39:37 <rucinter> OpenTTD (latest version) is not running on MacOS 10.6 Snow Leopard?
12:39:41 <Rubidium> hmm, I've been even on that metro
12:40:24 <bartavelle> ouchy turns out to be swiss
12:40:39 <planetmaker> edeca, currently I can only declare forced dependencies. And I'm not sure whether it works for newgrf.
12:41:00 <edeca> planetmaker: Forced are for AIs that require certain backend things?
12:41:09 <edeca> planetmaker: e.g. a directed graph or whatever
12:41:36 <Rubidium> rucinter: it's not officially supported. Some people reported that it works, others reported that it doesn't work... so the answer is: I don't know
12:41:51 <rucinter> ok, will try it on my own
12:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> bartavelle: apparently they used to have a rack railway, so the rubber tyres seem to be necessary for the increased traction
12:43:51 <planetmaker> edeca, yes. AIs can declare dependencies on libraries and stuff
12:44:17 <edeca> planetmaker: Makes sense
12:44:29 <planetmaker> newgrf don't need that usually.
12:44:52 <edeca> I tried FIRS at the weekend too, I quite liked it
12:45:55 <edeca> I think it was peter1138 who said he found it excessive. I thought it was easier than ECS
12:46:03 <planetmaker> edeca, if you find problems with FIRS and things which need tweaking, please report them in the corresponding thread in the tt-forums
12:46:17 <peter1138> that may be true... ECS is excess too...
12:47:04 <planetmaker> I thought already to maybe add a parameter to allow a FIRS light or alike
12:47:11 <planetmaker> less different industries
12:47:11 <peter1138> but i get confused when i try to play toyland, so...
12:49:00 <edeca> peter1138: I've loaded toyland once and given up..
12:49:01 <weaselboy246> thought FIRS was going to be control with dates?
12:49:23 <edeca> planetmaker: Does FIRS have stockpiles like some of the other industries?
12:49:44 <edeca> weaselboy246: That could be clever. No plastic packaging until 1970 or such
12:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: there's plenty of discussion on that, the decision was afair to not have stockpile limits
12:50:40 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Cool. I find them annoying, but that's just me :)
12:51:52 <weaselboy246> doesn't really bother me, except for requiring coal at steel mill :P
12:52:14 <planetmaker> yes. There won't be limits, I think
12:53:42 <edeca> planetmaker: What about industry closure? ECS can be a bit aggressive there
12:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there will be stockpiles though, so if you provide more cargo than the industry can handle, you will not get secondary goods out of that delivery
13:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... i think i found the reason... the tgp heightmap is 1 tile larger...
13:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> featurette-request: when river tiles are next to void tiles, they should show as if the void tile was a water tile
13:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. they should be "open" towards that tile
13:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so it looks like the river flows into (or out of) the map
13:10:57 <Rubidium> and then get bug reports that you can't place a buoy there?
13:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so i need to build my own address translation routines
13:11:07 <Terkhen> there is a similar problem with jungle tiles
13:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: what? no, not display the void tile, change the display of the river tile
13:12:27 <Terkhen> when you place jungle next to the end of the map, the border of the jungle tile appears as if the void tile was desert
13:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: currently, if you place a river tile near the map edge, it shows as "closed", i.e there's a small strip of land between the river and the map edge
13:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it should rather display as "open"
13:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> as if the river continues outside the map
13:23:01 <weaselboy246> TTD is a flat earth. there is no outside map :)
13:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so... the tile translation is better now, so next problem, why are they flowing uphill?
13:36:27 <Belugas> haaa... that is a feature i encoded myself, Eddi|zuHause : a touch of un-realism :D
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13:40:06 <rhaeder> all authorities are complaining about noise when I want to construct an international or intercontinental airport :(
13:40:40 <rhaeder> can I somewhere reduce the noise level they complain, or is that cheating?
13:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a difficulty setting
13:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> on permissive they complain less
13:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> also, larger cities complain less
13:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and further away from the city center they complain less
13:45:00 <rhaeder> already permissive :(
13:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a console setting that changes the effect of permissive
13:54:39 <Belugas> further away, the less noise..
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14:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/
14:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/river1.png
14:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm almost there
14:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (if it ever finishes uploading)
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14:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they tend to sink in the tiniest of valleys, and i need to sort out the terraforming to avoid the invalid slopes
14:11:31 <Belugas> damned... looking at the code for ten minutes, just to find out i was looking at the wrong library :S
14:13:00 <planetmaker> that image: your new patch, Eddi|zuHause ?
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14:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i know, but as long as i don't sort out the slopes, the drawing code crashes when i load a river grf
14:41:02 <Rubidium> what about *if* you reach a sloped tile terraform it down so it's a slope you can work with
14:41:15 <Rubidium> you only need to do that with one side
14:41:15 <peter1138> oh, well, i don't know what you're doin
14:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, i have an idea how to do it
14:42:35 <Rubidium> although... there's at least one case were that wouldn't work :(
14:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll go backwards from the sink/merge
14:44:16 <Rubidium> the location where you can't terraform is the biggest problem
14:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an address translation crash somewhere near the map edge...
14:47:27 <Rubidium> if foundations aren't allowed, or the houses are unmovables
14:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the houses are placed later
14:48:22 <Rubidium> oh, then it's almost trivial
14:48:32 <Rubidium> if terraforming down doesn't work, terraform up :)
14:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but the problem is generally those zick-zack rivers, they would have to be completely flat
14:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be way easier to just allow the other slopes ;)
14:51:24 <Rubidium> that'd certainly look odd in some cases, e.g. the top left right
14:52:14 <Belugas> lol -> Check Online Content. "can u (...) plz (...) give me the download link"
14:52:25 <Belugas> for crying out loud!!
14:52:52 <Belugas> what's wrong with kids today??? There is a shortage of brains nowaday???
14:53:13 <Rubidium> shortage of rights to have broadband at home
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14:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what's an "U Postleitzahl"?
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15:02:01 <Rubidium> and undergroup postal code?
15:14:08 <peter1138> bah, i really ought to get my organ working
15:19:05 <peter1138> oops, wrong channel
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18:20:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18496 /trunk/os/windows/installer/ (4 files): -Codechange: some changes to the installer to make it more usable, easier to maintain and more up-to-date
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18:45:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18497 /trunk/src/lang/ (hebrew.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt):
18:45:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hebrew - 1 changes by dnd_man
18:45:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 23 changes by Zhygometh
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18:59:35 <frosch123> hmm, internet is quite slow today except irc :p
19:03:39 * Luukland puts chair in relax mode
19:04:03 * Belugas puts coffee in express mode
19:04:20 <Luukland> Ahhh, Belugas also knows how to live ^^
19:04:29 <Belugas> DROP IN, YOU SLUG!!! COME ON!!! DROP
19:04:52 <frosch123> Luukland: no, he knows how to work
19:11:45 <Belugas> a ccokie for frosch123!
19:12:12 <Prof_Frink> A cockie? Actually, I don't want to know.
19:12:34 <Rubidium> bah.. I already wanted to asked how he mixed up the c and o
19:13:08 * Belugas blames his guitar nails
19:13:15 <frosch123> sounds like a female colleague saying: "sorry, i need to crawl under your desk again"
19:13:52 <Luukland> some people must be really depressed because of the cold weather
19:13:53 <Rubidium> oh, could've quoted James May too
19:14:01 <frosch123> (one colleague said that today, when she needed to fix the connectors of the computer again)
19:17:31 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18498 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_cmd.cpp vehicle_func.h vehicle_gui.cpp):
19:17:31 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2616]: cloning of vehicles could create vehicles with invalid cargo sub
19:17:31 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: types for the build year of the vehicle. Fall back to another cargo sub type
19:17:31 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: with the exact same name, otherwise fallback to cargo sub type 0.
19:20:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18499 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp:
19:20:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix/Change/Feature [FS#3159]: autoreplace and autorenew always reset their
19:20:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: cargo sub type to 0. Now find a sub cargo type with the exact same name and use
19:20:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: that, otherwise fallback to 0. So cargo sub types can be maintained via
19:20:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: autoreplace *if* the new vehicle supports the same cargo sub type.
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19:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "Fix/Change/Feature" <- wonderful ;)
19:48:20 <t> hello. i have found out, that opengfx is in a pretty good shape. How can i configure it so it will be system-wide default for all users on my (debian) system?
19:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> t: i believe the default one is chosen by alphabetical order
19:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> of the .obg file
19:50:50 <frosch123> t: do you wonder about the path to put ogfx into for global access, or about setting it as default?
19:51:09 <t> i want to have free software installation which works for users
19:51:15 <t> (without having to play with config)
19:51:40 <frosch123> put them in e.g. /usr/local/share/games/openttd/data
19:51:45 <t> ... i would like to place it on my live cd :)
19:51:53 <frosch123> maybe it also works without "local", but that is the one i use
19:52:10 <t> ic, i am using /usr/share/games/openttd/data
19:52:11 <frosch123> and ottd will use it if there is no other one anyway
19:54:29 <t> do you think you would like to have downloadable live cd with latest openttd?
19:55:11 <frosch123> the problem with a cd is, that you cannot save your games. can you also offer a live-usb-stick? :p
19:56:04 <frosch123> with no window manager and ottd as login shell or so
19:57:13 <t> i will try doing it, will contact you later when i will have something :)
19:58:01 <frosch123> well, actually, personally i do not need such a thing :)
19:58:08 <t> it might inspire people to improve (finish) opengfx set and maybe to do something about sounds and music :)
19:58:23 <frosch123> opensfx is finished as well
19:58:34 <t> ? never used it, i will have to look
19:58:37 <frosch123> and music has always been stupid anyway
19:58:49 <t> no, the music is the best of its kind
19:58:56 <frosch123> note, opensfx needs nightly, 0.7.x is not sufficient
19:59:07 <t> i was playing ttd too much just because of the music
20:00:04 <t> but well, not weeks without pause lol that would make the music a repeating torture
20:00:50 <t> opensfx is not in online content downloadable from client?
20:02:32 <frosch123> it is, but not for 0.7.x
20:03:53 <frosch123> 0.7 is more than 8 months old crap :p
20:06:27 <frosch123> he, you do not know ottd's release cycle :p
20:07:33 <frosch123> play alpha if you want to
20:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> what? release cycle? i thought that was an aprils fools joke...
20:10:24 <frosch123> yeah, only fools believe in fixed cycles
20:11:44 <t> and btw fool = customer ? :)
20:14:10 <t> customers are not fools. they only have different value systems, priorities and experiences...
20:14:12 <frosch123> fools can appear in different colours :)
20:14:23 <Belugas> always... a fool is always a customer
20:14:29 <Belugas> a customer is always a fool
20:14:53 <t> customer ! -> fool is imho wrong :)
20:15:22 <andythenorth> is he who works for a fool a bigger fool?
20:15:57 <andythenorth> who fools the fools?
20:16:14 <frosch123> last week fools were identified by appending numbers to their nickname
20:16:17 <andythenorth> meanwhile.....ta da (fanfare):
20:16:32 <andythenorth> kinda like a MB style thing
20:17:16 <frosch123> why is that not in off-topic?
20:17:41 <andythenorth> forthcoming newgrf set
20:17:54 <andythenorth> (or vapourware, depending on if I lose interest)
20:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what a Rolf Harris is...
20:18:33 <andythenorth> well there won't be one in the set
20:18:37 <peter1138> ROLF'S CARTOON CLUB, ROLF'S CARTOON CLUB, YOU CAN JOIN TODAY!
20:18:53 <andythenorth> Pikka would get it...
20:19:38 <peter1138> rolf's more of a british phenomenon
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20:24:00 <t> hmm opensfx really needs 0,8 it seems
20:24:11 * t is going to try compiling latest
20:27:26 <t> omg i am reported to homeland enslavement office now
20:28:08 <welshdragon> for indecent exposure
20:28:51 <t> quiet reporting is better than false frienship, right? :)
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20:44:38 <t> wow i can hear those new sounds :)
20:50:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18500 /branches/0.7/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
20:50:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
20:50:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: Read after free in case no network connection could be made with the content server (r18493)
20:50:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder::SkipToOrder did not properly resolve ORDER_CURRENT (r18471)
20:50:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Prepare for 0.7.5-RC1
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20:56:58 <welshdragon> 0.7.5 to have OGFX and OSFX?
20:57:55 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18501 /tags/0.7.5-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.5-RC1
20:59:15 <planetmaker> :-O Another 0.7 release approaching
20:59:38 <planetmaker> welshdragon: not OpenSFX
20:59:50 <frosch123> stupid tiki cannot create tables with cells spanning multiple columns (except last column)
20:59:55 <planetmaker> it's a trunk feature and will only be in 0.8.x
21:00:00 <frosch123> how shall i fix the newgrf specs then?
21:00:07 <planetmaker> which page, frosch123 ?
21:00:37 <frosch123> act 7/9 about \7[gG][gG]?
21:01:35 <frosch123> lol, Rubidium, that is cheating :)
21:02:27 <frosch123> (it does not even matter that it is a ancient tiki 1.9.2, even current 4.0 cannot deal with that)
21:03:42 <frosch123> i could insert the table as preformatted text :p
21:07:43 <t> after some playing, todays svn version crashed on me..
21:07:45 <t> Signal: Aborted (6) Message: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 99 of /home/t/src/g/openttd/trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp
21:13:29 <Rubidium> it works fine for me
21:14:06 <Rubidium> unless... you're missing compat_0.7.nut
21:14:49 <Rubidium> hmm, even then it doesn't fail that horribly
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21:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> czech, i presume
21:21:05 <Rubidium> aha... that explains it
21:25:01 <planetmaker> extra crash for our czech friends?
21:25:54 <Rubidium> yes, free for them only
21:25:56 <Luukland> cash for Dutch friend needed
21:27:18 <planetmaker> if you've too much cash, rather give it me than waste it, Luukland
21:27:41 <Luukland> this project is draining my wallet
21:28:04 <planetmaker> OpenTTD? does'nt sound too expensive
21:28:26 <planetmaker> (except if you count your working hours on it)
21:28:29 <Rubidium> it is when you're paying people to modify it
21:28:39 <Luukland> Chinese cheap workers
21:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> those that remember numbers in the basement?
21:31:56 <t> czech language is easy, maybe even easier than japanese. can i help somehow?
21:32:11 <Rubidium> it's not the language, it's the translation
21:33:26 <t> hmhm if you know where is the problem, maybe i can help a bit
21:34:02 <Rubidium> I have the solution already, just need to figure out whether it's the best
21:34:49 <Rubidium> anyhow, OpenTTD (trunk) in 6 languages is going to break if there's no AI
21:35:11 <Rubidium> the other 47-or-so will 'just work'
21:35:51 <t> well, getting AI could help me?
21:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, generally yes, if you want to enable AI you need to download some
21:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what the window would tell you, if it wouldn't crash the game
21:36:33 <Rubidium> would work around the problem, as would setting the language to not one of czech, turkish, greek, catalan, romanian or swedish
21:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> did the catalans vote for their independence yet?
21:37:09 <t> why is it not included in the game?
21:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> t: because they change very fast, so after every (old) installation, one would have to make an "online update" anyway
21:38:59 <t> this could be nice workaround, at least for me :
21:39:07 <Rubidium> and which ones should we package and which ones not? Would mean that we need to do quality control on the AIs
21:39:10 <t> i mean having some (even old) version by default
21:39:28 <Rubidium> t: that's the AI it's trying to load when it crashes
21:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Apple users suffer from Stockholm Syndrome" <- lmao ;)
21:41:44 <t> we will all be suffocated by copenhagen syndrome... :(
21:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> t: the "Stockholm Syndrome" is when obducted people solidarize with their kidnappers and start to defend their actions
21:43:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I find that a good quote
21:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> t: apparently a danish company made a study, and apple users use similar arguments when discussing around iphone shortcomings (lack of java/mms and restricted applications)
21:44:35 <t> it can be told about most proprietary systems
21:45:28 * fjb would even have to change the net provider to use an iphone.
21:46:21 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: i think that quote applies to most users of any operating system, assuming the user actively chose what OS he wants.
21:47:09 <t> having proprietary system on communication devices is like petting bugs
21:47:50 <t> _ln: i do not agree. in linux, there are shortcomings, but its a system under your command.
21:47:59 <t> apple/win => you are slave to the system
21:48:11 <_ln> t: see, you are suffering from the syndrome.
21:48:26 <fjb> Yes, use FreeBSd and you eare free!
21:48:44 <t> lolz. maybe GNU Mach, never openbsd
21:48:56 <t> just what works best and gives you freedom
21:49:18 <t> *bsd is not smart enough :)
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21:51:17 <_ln> t: *although* you have access to the source, in practice you are quite much limited by what your distribution has decided for you. quite improbable that the average user would start patching any program in the system, despite the source.
21:51:59 <t> your assumption is not working
21:52:28 <_ln> t: if you knew what to do and you have even some coding skills, you are not the average user.
21:52:42 <t> i WAS average user before coming to linux
21:52:55 <t> you cant be more easily in proprietary world
21:53:47 <_ln> i know, and there is no good operating system at the moment, either free or proprietary.
21:54:40 <t> eventually, all brainchips will be from one company (google?). That day we will have all questions answered for us.
21:58:35 <_ln> with linux the situation with sounds is not really any better than 10 years ago, which is sad.
21:59:18 <t> _ln: it is! its fragmented, but alsa>> oss and jackd for me works well
21:59:30 <fjb> We are google, resistance is futile!
21:59:45 <t> we are from google and we are here to help you.
22:02:16 <_ln> t: hard to avoid pulseaudio nowadays
22:04:53 <t> yes, pulse sucks sometimes...
22:05:17 <t> as a musician i use jackd and i am glad i have linux :)
22:05:43 <t> (low latency, plugable real time effects, real-time remixing, filtering)
22:06:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18502 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: -Fix: the dummy AI would could a NOT_REACHED if the translated error message contained a quote
22:08:58 <dihedral> PeterT: those are bug fix releases ;-)
22:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> why not? the later it gets, the less useful it's going to be
22:09:52 <PeterT> What happened to Celestar? Why did he leave?
22:10:04 <frosch123> he was annoyed about the spam in here
22:10:45 <DorpsGek> _ln: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 33 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
22:10:57 <_ln> 33 weeks is hardly leaving
22:11:22 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18503 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3370]: the length and platform buttons in the station window weren't always properly centered
22:11:24 <_ln> not even enough for a baby
22:12:32 <t> for some babies, its a good date
22:14:46 <t> do you plan adding some open music ?
22:15:18 <Rubidium> only if someone makes it
22:15:40 <t> there is a lot of 'free' or Free music files. midi, oggs
22:15:52 <_ln> Sacro already found some great open music
22:15:58 <t> but question is, will the user want to listen? :)
22:16:01 <_ln> but nobody cared, i guess
22:16:26 <Rubidium> more: will they want to listen to those 20-ish songs?
22:16:57 <_ln> they can replace it with britney spears if the so choose
22:17:21 <t> baby baby, your train is rolling
22:17:25 * dihedral claps his hands for mp3 players
22:17:28 <Rubidium> and how free is their free?
22:17:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: yexo * r18504 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Remove [NoAI]: AIVehicle::SkipToVehicleOrder as it was a duplicate or AIOrder.SkipToOrder
22:18:09 <t> i would not listen to some 'authors', even for free
22:18:25 <t> but original music really was great
22:18:57 <t> i guess best would be to ask copyright owners to release it under friendly license
22:19:26 <Rubidium> that requires one thing... knowing who are the copyright owners
22:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know who composed the music...
22:20:07 <t> peter1138: today i listened to the music with my son, who wants to learn it. he has 6 years, he plays piano
22:20:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Jeff something?
22:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a question?
22:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> t: so? you can generate the music sheets from the midi files
22:21:51 <t> i just want to explain that the music is still nice! and even new generation will enjoy it
22:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause> t: but that has no relation to getting the distribution rights
22:22:21 <t> well, about those rights, maybe you need just to ask :)
22:23:52 <Rubidium> hmm, Jazz existed in 1899?
22:27:52 <t> but those are only piano :)
22:28:21 <Sacro> _ln: i posted that ears ago
22:28:22 <_ln> that's a matter of a minor editing of the midi file
22:28:51 <t> minor editing? to make it as nice as the original music? :)
22:28:57 <t> i admire the original music, i must say
22:28:57 <_ln> Sacro: correcto. about 1.08 years ago.
22:32:27 <_ln> 02:02:49 < ln> that's like the best freely distributable TTD-style music we're ever going to find, and it's in midi format.
22:32:51 <t> i will try looking around for better :)
22:36:12 <t> would you be open to another format (ogg) ?
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22:47:07 <fjb> Hi andythenorth, have some fish?
22:55:34 * peter1138 mumbles at ice1712 not supporting suspend
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23:36:06 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: yexo * r18505 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix [FS#3169]: improve airport movement on several airports
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23:48:44 <PeterT> Why was the Mac OS X maintainer 'lost'?
23:48:56 <PeterT> (As it says on the website)
23:49:36 <Prof_Frink> PeterT: We think he fell down the back of the sofa
23:50:05 <PeterT> Ah, That would make him very hard to find :-p
continue to next day ⏵
