IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-21
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07:22:48 <George> When I change the GRF paramerter via GRF itself, should the save store the value, devined by config, or by GRF?
07:23:02 <George> // drop parameter to 0 if difficulty level is hard
07:23:02 <George> 22 * 9 07 A2 04 \7! 02 00 00 00 01
07:23:02 <George> 23 * 9 0D 00 \D= FF FF 00 00 00 00
07:23:46 <George> I start a game with parameter 15 on hard settings, save the game, load it, and get the value of 15
07:24:55 <George> While the code should (if I'm not mistaken) drop it to 0
07:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> is it 0 before the save?
07:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and who ever plays with the default difficulty settings?
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10:11:05 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r18203 /trunk/src/widget_type.h: -Codechange (r18092): Remove DisplayFlags enum of old widgets.
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10:36:42 <alligator> why can't i see new trains ? it said a new electric train is avable
10:37:13 <Rubidium> because an electric train requires electrification
10:37:59 <Rubidium> i.e. click on the rail button on the main toolbar, keep it press, and select 'electrified railway'
10:38:12 <Rubidium> then build a depot and build the electric train
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10:39:38 <Alberth> don't forget to electrify the tracks as well
10:43:36 <Alberth> the 'convert tracks' button is very handy for that :)
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12:43:22 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18204 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: introduce a type for Ticks and use it; furthermore document some related variables/functions
12:45:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18205 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate some code
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13:22:03 <Fast2> I have a problem: I can't close the map window because the close-button is behind the upper bar and the resize buttón behind the lower...
13:23:01 <Brianetta> Fast2: Press backspace
13:23:56 <Brianetta> Some windows have a pin button
13:24:00 <Brianetta> that stops that key closing them
13:24:09 <Brianetta> using shift as well, will close all pinned windows too
13:24:15 <roboboy> can I run openttd without any original TTD files?
13:24:39 <Brianetta> well, you probably could if you didn't mind a silent experience
13:24:43 <roboboy> so I still need samle.cat?
13:24:51 <roboboy> ok so it isnt required
13:24:53 <Brianetta> The file needs to exist
13:25:01 <Brianetta> but it can be 0 bytes long
13:25:44 <roboboy> ive never goten it to work reliably using the DOS original files so I may try just a blank sample.cat
13:25:50 <Alberth> Fast2: there was no piece of the title bar visible any more?
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13:26:22 <Fast2> Brianetta: Ah, I wondered for what this button was made.
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13:27:36 <Alberth> Fast2: Oh you are playing a 0.7.x version? I thought I fixed that, but maybe only in trunk.
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15:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... i hate TGP...
15:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> in maps like this, you always need diagonal stations, tunnels, bridges, etc...
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15:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and i need tram stations under bridges...
15:39:18 <George> Does <Sprite-number> * <Length> 0D <target> <operation> <variable> FE FF FF 00 00 vorks in OTTD?
15:39:26 <George> 13 map size information Bit switch Format = -MABXYSS (since r11961 and r1817)
15:40:03 <George> It is always 4, 34, 34, 1 for me
15:40:17 <George> On any map size I test
15:40:49 <George> 29 * 9 0D 0A \D= 13 FE FF FF 00 00
15:44:36 <George> frosch123: Could you have look at it?
15:47:22 <George> do I understand it right, that it means 256x256 map?
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16:02:18 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18206 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3322]: on could 'pan' on the viewports of other windows, like the industry view, too
16:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, appears like 256x256
16:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like it is...
16:07:09 <Rubidium> I see no reason why the code would be wrong
16:07:47 <Rubidium> (the code in OpenTTD)
16:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> your list is backwards, though. 1 == squared map, 0x22 (=34) means smaller edge=2/larger edge=2, 0x22 (=34) means map_x=2/map_y=2, 4 means map_x+map_y=4
16:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the map_* must be +6
16:09:22 <George> Do I need to provide a grf for tests?
16:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if possible, always do provide a test grf
16:10:49 * Eddi|zuHause sees a light bulb over Rubidium's head
16:10:56 <Rubidium> the map is initialised *after* the NewGRFs are loaded
16:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a funny bug to resolve ;)
16:12:23 * Rubidium blames whoever tested Belugas' feature
16:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni is always a good candidate for blame
16:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> or in lack thereof, Sacro ;)
16:20:20 <frosch123> so, George, does it work when loading a savegame?
16:20:44 <Rubidium> new diff with a better chance of working
16:23:04 <frosch123> Rubidium: does loading savegames still work then?
16:23:34 <Rubidium> frosch123: what changes for loading savegames with that code?
16:23:49 <frosch123> - SetObjectToPlace(SPR_CURSOR_ZZZ, PAL_NONE, HT_NONE, WC_MAIN_WINDOW, 0); <- that one is removed
16:24:10 <Rubidium> besides not showing the Zzz between the redraw after starting before finishing loading the savegame
16:31:01 <George> frosch123: No. It is always 4,34,34,1
16:32:13 <frosch123> Rubidium: i cannot find anything in Initialise that depends on newgrfs, so should be fine :)
16:32:20 <George> Can't save about your diff, because I do not compile exe
16:32:47 <George> But if you would provide win32 executable, I can test ti
16:36:59 <TrueBrain> where is that virus with a .exe executable ..... :p
16:37:20 <Rubidium> for what it's worth: if you save the game and load it the numbers are okay
16:37:29 <TrueBrain> s/executable/extension/
16:39:44 <George> Rubidium: - yes, I made a wrong test. After save-load values are correct
16:39:48 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18207 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp misc.cpp): -Fix [FS#3324] (r11961): [NewGRF] When starting a new game the values of action D variable 13 were incorrect
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17:22:50 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18208 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3321]: in some cases the size of the land information window wasn't properly calculated
17:42:48 <fonsinchen> For diagonal levelling and drawing I need to find out about the current "action" in order to decide if the tile selection should be updated orthogonally or diagonally ...
17:43:21 <fonsinchen> The optimal solution would probably be checking _place_proc, but the procs are all static and correctly so
17:44:02 <fonsinchen> Would it be hackish to check the cursor icon instead?
17:44:36 <fonsinchen> Like _cursor.sprite == SPR_CURSOR_LEVEL_LAND means user is levelling land.
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17:47:49 <fonsinchen> The previous method is checking _thd.select_proc, but that's ambigous as each of the select procs are used by multiple tools.
18:05:04 <frosch123> aren't there already some flags to restrict selection to 1x1, 1xn / nx1, nxm ?
18:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i'd say it needs passing as a parameter
18:05:43 <frosch123> (e.g. autorail, non-autorail, autoroad, canal)
18:07:52 <fonsinchen> You mean those HT_RECT, HT_POINT and so on?
18:08:05 <fonsinchen> Dragging always uses HT_SPECIAL ...
18:08:17 <fonsinchen> along with some other actions.
18:09:26 <fonsinchen> HT_RECT is only for placing things. Also those are highlight types. The same highlight could be used for several actions
18:09:38 <fonsinchen> some of which don't support diagonal dragging.
18:11:24 <fonsinchen> I've put the DraggingDiagonal method into terraform_gui.cpp now. Like this I can actually compare _place_proc with the various PlaceProc_* there.
18:12:11 <fonsinchen> It's like querying the terraform window "does your action support diagonal dragging right now?"
18:12:23 <fonsinchen> Also not very nice, but better than before.
18:18:39 <George> Wiki sais: Action 0 for industries. Probability in random game (17), Probability during gameplay (18)
18:19:35 <George> Do OTTD take map size into account when new indusry appear?
18:20:17 <George> I mean, should GRF increase Prop 18 for larger maps, or do OTTD does it itself?
18:21:38 <Rubidium> yes, no (unless you want relatively even more industry in larger maps)
18:23:48 <George> Rubidium: so, if I want the same probability per tile, I should not change the value, OTTD will increase the probability as much as more tiles are represented on the map?
18:23:54 <frosch123> isn't that only a relative probability?
18:24:27 <George> So, on 512x512 map ther would be generated 4 more time industries, than on 256x256 map?
18:25:13 <Rubidium> yes-ish, though in reality actually a bit more because with a bigger map there is a bigger chance to find a spot for the industries
18:25:21 <frosch123> iirc. on 256x256 maps ottd tries to build one industry per month, on 512x512 4 per month. property 18 only affects which industry is tried
18:25:55 <frosch123> the location restrictions are then the most important factor how many industries actually appear
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18:27:57 <frosch123> in other words, george, if you double property 18 of all industries, nothing changes
18:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, larger maps should get relatively _less_ industries (i.e. on average larger distances
18:29:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: use a NewGRF that limits industries to 1 per map :)
18:29:34 <George> frosch123> on 256x256 maps ottd tries to build one industry per month, on 512x512 4 per month - this is the answer
18:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like that... especially with more industry types (ECS Vectors, FIRS), there are way too many industries on a large map
18:30:36 <Rubidium> there're always too many or too little <whatever>
18:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but even on "very low" industries, people complain that there are way too many
18:31:27 <frosch123> George: actually it tries building a industry only with a chance of 3%
18:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so 3% per month that an industry is built, and then prop 18 to decide which industry?
18:33:07 <frosch123> on 256x256 ottd does once a month something with a random industry. 3% for trying to create a random industry, 97% for doing a random production change (the non-monthly-but-more-randomcb)
18:33:42 <frosch123> on 512x512 maps the "once a month" changes to "once every 8 days or so"
18:34:16 <asilv> does it try severeal times if it doesn't find suitable location first time?
18:34:29 <frosch123> several hundred times
18:34:41 <frosch123> /* try to create 2000 times this industry */
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18:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a short introduction to hg queues somewhere?
18:38:20 <frosch123> in the semi-official hg book
18:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> do i have that installed somewhere?
18:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> > ls /usr/share/doc/packages/mercurial/
18:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> CONTRIBUTORS COPYING README sample.hgrc
18:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> there obviously not...
18:40:47 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then it would be official, wouldn't it?
18:43:27 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... cutting and converting tv recordings is so tedious, i should just delete it and download the crap
18:44:01 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you ever watch them?
18:44:06 <frosch123> or do you sell them :p
18:45:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18209 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 7 changes by josesun
18:45:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
18:45:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 37 changes by fumantsu
18:45:49 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
18:45:49 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
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19:04:54 <TAW_T-Bone> anybody around willing to help me out
19:06:36 <Alberth> just ask a question, if somebody knows the answer, he/she will give it
19:07:22 <TAW_T-Bone> ok i got vista 64 how can i install a full version of TTD
19:08:19 <TAW_T-Bone> well i still have a bought version from '95 here
19:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you'll be able to play that
19:08:50 <TAW_T-Bone> but vista doesn't recognize it
19:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to use that to get the data files (trg*.grf and sample.cat)
19:09:04 <TAW_T-Bone> so how do i then play ottd
19:09:06 <Alberth> download a stable OpenTTD version, and install together with the TTD files
19:09:59 <TAW_T-Bone> lol - i have been searching the wiki and found nothing
19:10:46 <Alberth> wiki is full of nice surprises :)
19:14:48 <TAW_T-Bone> thanks i will again
19:16:42 <TAW_T-Bone> ohh can i use the opengfx pack in my version
19:16:55 <TAW_T-Bone> and will this better the gfx's
19:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and imho no.
19:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get opengfx via the ingame content downloader
19:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and switch between them in the settings dialog
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21:33:47 <planetmaker> Hm... I don't quite understand the wiki: which stringIDs can I actually use in order to define names for houses?
21:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it was the 0Dxx ones
21:36:49 <planetmaker> hm... might give that a try. stringIDs are a pain...
21:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> why don't you check an existing house grf, hoo they do ii?
21:44:12 <asilv> DCxx are what I have used
21:44:38 <asilv> 2 * 14 04 48 FF 01 01 DC "Cottage" 00
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21:52:42 <planetmaker> Thanks. I'll check it out :-)
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21:59:53 <planetmaker> hm... you used "feature" 48 instead of 07?
22:01:01 <asilv> i guess 07 would be more correct as the strings are only used for houses
22:01:59 <planetmaker> I seem to have exactly that. Neither 07 nor 48 does work for me...
22:03:45 <planetmaker> he... using FF instead of 7F does the trick
22:03:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess you have to either use d9xx texts, or dcxx texts plus property 12
22:04:05 <planetmaker> frosch123: property 12 is being used, yes
22:04:29 <frosch123> oh, yes, you have to use ff
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22:04:42 <frosch123> "80" means 16 bit textid, else only 8
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22:06:34 <planetmaker> Cool guys. Now I have properly named buildings :-)
22:06:44 <planetmaker> (or at least the potential. And for translations as well)
22:09:57 <asilv> remember that you have to add 0x80 to language ids for translations too. (you propably figured this out yourself, but just in case...)
22:11:01 <planetmaker> asilv: yeah, I figured that now :-)
22:11:39 <planetmaker> But translations have to come later, but it's just a list of #defines which needs to be added and it's done. Now there's not much to translate so far, though
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23:31:56 <Sacro> Sprengmeister-Simulator
23:55:07 <Sacro> shame I can't read german
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