IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-09
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00:09:55 <planetmaker> anyway, good night for now :-)
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08:03:12 <Pikka> good morning and custard
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09:28:00 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18026 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h): -Codechange: make a lookup table static that doesn't need to be 'exported'
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09:59:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18027 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: make some unneededly global variables static and remove some unused variables
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10:40:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18028 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: unglobalise some functions
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11:17:58 <Lachie> g'day, could anyone tell me how I'd represent the word
11:20:15 <Rubidium> hmm, probably you got to return 0
11:20:29 <Rubidium> because D000 is added in OpenTTD
11:22:13 <Lachie> so D000 has already been defined in OTTD?
11:23:40 <Lachie> is there a list of which strings haven't been defined yet?
11:24:17 <Lachie> more logically, which have been
11:28:49 <Lachie> indeed, I thought I'd made one for once in my life haha
11:31:47 <Rubidium> Lachie: I wouldn't know; I'm not really a nfo expert
11:36:27 <Lachie> I just peeked through the source code and there didn't appear to be any mention of an ID for any of the strings
11:36:31 <Lachie> though perhaps I'm doing it wrong
11:42:11 <Lachie> who would be a good person to ask about it?
11:42:45 <Rubidium> frosch or DaleStan I'd say
11:51:48 <Lachie> actually noticing that nforenum appears to change "00 D0" to "00 FF"
11:51:55 <petern> when i right click in a viewport it moves by whatever the last mouse movement was
11:52:09 <petern> cos delta.x/y are not reset to zero after a movement event
11:52:28 <petern> the win32 driver explicitly resets these after the gameloop is called
11:52:38 <petern> but not so for sdl or other drivers
11:52:54 <Lachie> I'll try encoding it directly from an nfo and see what pops up
11:55:07 <Lachie> it was an issue with my makefile as opposed to a problem with the nfo it seems
12:02:41 <Lachie> however it hasn't made the additional text show up
12:02:44 <Lachie> I'll try some more tomorrow
12:02:48 <Lachie> thanks for your help Rubidium
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12:10:39 <MyCatVerbs> petern: That is a pretty nifty bug. :)
12:20:43 <Rubidium> petern: so it needs to be reset at the end of gameloop instead of in the video driver?
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12:27:34 <petern> Rubidium, i don't know
12:27:46 <petern> Rubidium, the mouse fix part of the video driver uses delta.x + dx though
12:27:54 <petern> which suggests it shouldn't be reset
12:28:16 <petern> (but then scrolling wouldn't work right on win32)
12:42:27 <Rubidium> I got the feeling that cursor.delta.x should be zeroed after each mouseloop, i.e. each time it's used
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13:04:29 <petern> mmm, so what's the cursor.x += dx bit about then?
13:04:48 <petern> should then "delta.x = dx" work just as well?
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13:10:47 <Rubidium> r7157 is the 'culprit': it changed the behaviour of handling mouse stuff from once a tick to once a tick and once a mouse event
13:11:05 <Rubidium> as such summing isn't needed anymore since r7157
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14:44:10 <StarLionIsaac> when did the toolbar get nested... and can we have the spaces on it back?
14:46:43 <petern> Rubidium, wait... that's 2 years ago... hah
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14:49:29 <andythenorth> oh wonderful. A 'post all your suggestions here' thread in the graphics forum
14:50:06 <petern> StarLionIsaac, yeah, that's ugly
14:54:07 <petern> there's code to make spaces
14:54:12 <petern> but the spacer is 0, 0
14:55:07 <petern> definately something, i don't understand the widgets enough to know :)
15:16:51 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: glx * r18029 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h): -Fix (r18028): AppendPathSeparator() should stay global
15:29:04 <StarLionIsaac> question: besides lack of graphics, what stops us having diagonal stations?
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15:33:16 <Rubidium> code, possible newgrf breakage, ...
15:34:02 <StarLionIsaac> why newgrf breakage? if a station-set doesn't define any graphics specifically for diagonals, then it doesn't have them, no problem I see there
15:34:09 <Rubidium> ghehe... people are complaining about the windows/widgets getting more consistent spacing
15:34:13 <StarLionIsaac> unless it tries to use them when there aren't any
15:34:21 <StarLionIsaac> because it's ugly without the spaces on the toolbar, that's why
15:34:48 <Rubidium> StarLionIsaac: was more thinking about trains that might be doing something special for station tiles
15:35:02 <Rubidium> the spaces are still there, they're a bit smaller though
15:35:29 <StarLionIsaac> 1/2 space per tile for a diagonal, I know, it'd just mean making them a bit longer... take a bit more space though
15:35:55 <StarLionIsaac> I just got to thinking, if we have the possibility for diag airstrips in newgrf airports try 2, why not stations as well
15:35:58 <Rubidium> or are you using OGFX? In that case their sprites are probably bigger
15:36:24 <StarLionIsaac> well, I was planning on starting a little project, using OGFX as a base, to make some diagonal tiles
15:36:35 <Rubidium> and OpenTTD scales to the sprites instead of forcing the sprites to be a specific size
15:36:52 <StarLionIsaac> until there's support for usable diagonal stations, they might as well be non-track
15:37:41 <StarLionIsaac> I guess if it's unlikely there'll be support for it, then non-track is all they'll be
15:40:09 <StarLionIsaac> in which revision? I'm using a modified r17986, and they're not there - none of the patches affect the toolbar though
15:40:18 <StarLionIsaac> a few grfs do, but I didn't think that would affect it
15:40:49 * StarLionIsaac needs to update his openttd game again
15:40:51 <Rubidium> StarLionIsaac: but are you using OGFX?
15:41:19 <Rubidium> that doesn't have the spacing because their toolbar buttons are bigger and the nested widgets scale to those larger buttons
15:41:34 <Rubidium> so for OGFX the fix is getting smaller button images
15:41:43 <StarLionIsaac> well, that explains it...
15:46:32 <petern> ah, i am using ogfx, so...
15:47:00 <Belugas> ho... *****only***** 64 industry type... fuckhead
15:47:33 <petern> Rubidium, hmm, the buttons are still too large even with the originals
15:48:13 <petern> sometimes it's not about consistency, it's what looks right ;)
15:49:09 <Rubidium> you mean that adding the fast forward and making the space smaller made it look better but making it slightly smaller again makes it look worse?
15:50:58 <Rubidium> it looks different from what it looked, but does that make it look worse?
15:51:18 <Rubidium> looks like you didn't even notice that you were using ogfx at first
15:51:36 <Rubidium> which is according to lots of people "worse"
15:51:52 <StarLionIsaac> bleh, I use it that much I can't stand the old base graphics anymore myself... but I would prefer the spaces back on the toolbar again
15:51:55 <Rubidium> it's just that you need to get accustomed with the fact that it doesn't look like it did look
15:52:22 <Rubidium> StarLionIsaac: file a bug report at OGFX that their sprites are too big
15:52:26 <petern> pfft, game options still looks wrong with the stickie outie drop downs :p
15:57:35 <StarLionIsaac> I'm beginning to hate the auto-image preview in nautilus
15:57:48 <StarLionIsaac> it locks up the entire computer to preview the OGFX pcx files
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16:05:35 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18030 /trunk/src/ (smallmap_gui.cpp video/win32_v.cpp window.cpp): -Fix: screen jumped a bit for at least SDL and Allegro when right-click-dragging
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16:07:15 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18031 /trunk/src/video/ (allegro_v.cpp sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Codechange: since basically r7157 adding up 'all' mouse movement isn't needed anymore because after each even that movement is handled and the counter is reset. As such simply assigning instead of adding works.
16:16:10 <petern> i assume my change in 18001 could apply to other video drivers as well, but i don't have any ability to test them
16:16:22 <Ammler> [16:40] <Rubidium> so for OGFX the fix is getting smaller button images <-- isn't there just no spacer image?
16:16:38 <petern> Ammler, the spacer is there, it's not an image
16:16:46 <petern> the ogfx button sprites are just too large
16:17:03 <petern> (you'd assume they'd use images the same size...)
16:18:53 <Rubidium> well, it proves that their "chinese wall" for seperating specification and actual implementation failed *and* that they didn't copy the original sprites
16:20:06 <Rubidium> Ammler: and you'll see the spacers in the sceneditor
16:21:21 <Ammler> if I compere the toolsets, the icons have smae size, just ogfx has no spacer
16:22:10 <Rubidium> one of the sprites has to be slightly bigger
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16:27:18 <Ammler> indeed, the bigger icons are there
16:28:47 <Ammler> so you removed the support for individual sprite size?
16:29:03 <welshdragon> damn 9 ca trains using a 4 tile platform :(
16:31:13 <petern> Ammler, it's nestedwidgetorized
16:31:22 <petern> therefore the button size comes from the image
16:31:37 <Ammler> so ogfx needs this spacer image?
16:34:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r18032 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: add one const
16:35:01 <frosch123> static const int ONE = 1;
16:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but the SIX*NINE thing doesn't work properly that way...
16:42:14 <petern> Rubidium, the ogfx sprites are 20x20 afaics
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17:11:56 <Rubidium> hmm... why does IMGBTN_2 have more spacing?
17:14:01 <Rubidium> guess that's because the primary users of IMGBTN_2 were using such odd spacing or so
17:21:11 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18033 /trunk/src/ (toolbar_gui.cpp widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make the padding for IMGBTN_2 the same as for IMGBTN; the image doesn't move, so the extra space at the right and bottom aren't needed
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17:47:34 <Belugas> installing .net 3.5 ... ouch
17:48:56 <Belugas> or was not installed...
17:49:07 <Belugas> 236 meg of stuuf to work on
17:49:34 <Belugas> meanwhile... NEON NIGHTS!
17:49:45 <Belugas> Black Sabbath, of course :)
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18:41:18 <ptr_> what's the status of AI during multiplay?
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18:42:37 <ptr_> I downloadad AdmiralAI, but they're not doing anything :/
18:43:01 <StarLionIsaac> check the AI debug and find out what it's up to
18:44:39 <ptr_> I'm running it on my dedicated server
18:45:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18034 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:45:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:46 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:45:48 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
18:45:48 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu
18:47:41 <planetmaker> ptr_, downloading an AI is not sufficient in order to activate it.
18:48:27 <ptr_> it shows up as a company
18:48:50 <ptr_> but it seems pretty passive
18:48:50 <planetmaker> well. Is it admiralAI or the dummy AI?
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18:52:43 <ptr_> oh, it's built a train station
18:52:50 <ptr_> but... nothing more, heh
18:53:11 <planetmaker> you ptr_ , patience you must learn.
18:53:40 <ptr_> a lot of stations actually
19:08:07 <StarLionIsaac> that reminds me. Does the AI build speed setting chosen in Difficulty Settings affect NoAI's? It never seems to
19:08:59 <Rubidium> unless AIs choose to sleep a month between 'commands'
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19:13:21 <ptr_> difficulty.competitor_speed I guess?
19:14:28 <Rubidium> you could increase the number of ops for AIs; mean that it's pathfinding goes a bit faster, but it won't actually build it faster (once it starts building ofcourse)
19:16:13 <Rubidium> let me guess, few towns, few industries, mountainous, high building costs or so?
19:17:50 <ptr_> many towns and industries actually, but they insist on spamming the map with train stations
19:17:53 <ptr_> and it's a pretty big map
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19:20:20 <Luukland> Good evening, I have small question :)
19:20:34 <Luukland> could it be possible to store client ip in an usigned integer ?
19:21:11 <Xaroth> depends, ipv6 is just 4 bytes, ipv6 is somewhat bigger..
19:21:34 <Rubidium> yeah, it would fit in a uint128
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19:29:28 <ptr_> you start an ai-script by using "start_ai 'ai script name'" right?
19:34:40 <Paul2> only in overly PC britain
19:36:05 <Noldo> _ln: my wife and I don't agree on the meaning of 'iltapiv'
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20:02:25 <DorpsGek> Ruudjah: Luukland was last seen in #openttd 41 minutes and 51 seconds ago: <Luukland> could it be possible to store client ip in an usigned integer ?
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20:59:25 <TrueBrain> reminder to self: do not use C#
21:01:45 <Rubidium> looks like bad luck (1 in (2**32)**24?) or very bad entropy
21:04:23 <Belugas> TrueBrain : use a Cm7, it sounds way better!
21:04:52 <petern> it works fine on another machine
21:05:47 <TrueBrain> Belugas: ghehe :) Yeah, Cm7 sounds better, you are right :)
21:06:10 <TrueBrain> C# and Linux .. now I am confused
21:07:09 * Rubidium wonders whether C# is actually allowed on planes
21:07:23 <guru3_> OK... is there a particular reason why when I launch OpenTTD the colors are all messed up and there are random sqares of graphics shifting all over the place?
21:07:27 *** guru3_ is now known as guru3
21:07:40 <TrueBrain> try not using the debug blitter :)
21:07:52 <guru3> All I did was emerge it...
21:09:26 <Rubidium> what version did it emerge? 0.6.3?
21:10:03 <guru3> Running emerge -av openttd to find out what flags it used...
21:10:10 <guru3> (Which will take a bit of time, this is a P1...)
21:10:31 <Rubidium> hmm, so no PPC, so 0.7.3 is a bit more plausible
21:11:40 <Rubidium> oh, they just marked it 'stable' on x86
21:11:43 <TrueBrain> why use Gentoo on a P1? :s
21:11:51 <guru3> because i want the configurability
21:11:56 <guru3> once it's setup i dont have to change anything
21:12:01 <TrueBrain> get some host to do the compiling for you :)
21:12:20 <petern> TrueBrain, well, i get a single exe that's cross platform ;)
21:12:33 <petern> so quick, let's port openttd to c#!
21:12:36 <DOTAAngel> hi guys...any recommendation on the IDE for Squirrel programming? Eclipse or NetBeans?
21:12:57 <TrueBrain> 'cross' platform, it only fails for certain systems :p
21:12:57 <guru3> would I maybe have more luck starting with -b 8bb-simple ?
21:13:10 <TrueBrain> guru3: -b 8bpp-optimized, I would suggest
21:13:16 <TrueBrain> but 8bpp-debug is silly, yes
21:13:24 <guru3> well i dont know what it's trying to use by default
21:14:04 <guru3> is it something that can be set in the .cfg file?
21:14:14 <petern> actually 8bpp-debug doesn't have random squares of grpahics
21:14:17 <petern> so it's something else
21:14:22 <TrueBrain> try under 'blitter' ;)
21:14:31 <TrueBrain> petern: depends on your definition of 'random' I guess :)
21:14:56 <guru3> well when something is moving
21:14:56 <TrueBrain> if the square is a rectangle and the randomness is very predictable, it is about right :)
21:15:00 <guru3> more than one moves and it's distorted
21:15:04 <guru3> things get half over layed
21:15:27 <guru3> what blitter does it try to use by default?
21:15:42 <TrueBrain> depends on your OS ;) But 8bpp-optimized should be fine ;)
21:15:49 <TrueBrain> optmized .. optimised .. tomato tomato
21:15:55 <guru3> starting with -b 8bb-optimized
21:16:10 <guru3> 32mb of ram is so not enough -_-
21:17:11 <TrueBrain> oeh, petern spelled it wrong! That is a first time :s Are you sure you are petern? Can we please verify this? /me hugs petern :)
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21:19:11 <guru3> the midi has started... (cool that works)
21:19:38 <guru3> and nope it's still all messed up
21:19:49 <guru3> there are two of the same thing side by side at the start
21:19:53 <guru3> then it all starts to move around
21:20:51 <petern> how about a screenshot? heh
21:21:04 <guru3> i don't have a screenshot thing setup
21:21:08 <guru3> i will take a photo next time though
21:21:32 <guru3> trying with the simple blitter
21:24:13 <guru3> (incidentally, 8bpp-simple is also messed up)
21:24:37 <petern> although... why bother using such an ancient machine :s
21:24:46 <guru3> because it's transportable
21:25:16 <Rubidium> a mobile home is transportable too, I wouldn't want to live in one though
21:29:56 <Rubidium> does -b 32bpp-simple help?
21:30:25 <guru3> haven't tried that one yet
21:30:47 <guru3> and just found out it's not 0.7.3 it's 0.7.2
21:32:42 <guru3> oh my X seems to have crashed
21:36:14 <Rubidium> maybe it has something to do with the colour depth
21:37:01 <guru3> neomagic and the kdrive useflag for xorg-server
21:37:15 <Rubidium> does it happen when you run it windowed?
21:37:24 <guru3> it messes up the entire screen then
21:37:28 <guru3> or flips the colors of everything
21:37:33 <guru3> but only the window ends up drawn wrong
21:39:10 <guru3> although it's currently going in slow motion
21:39:14 <guru3> so nothing's moved yet...
21:40:42 <guru3> nothing's moving yet... lots of swapping going on
21:40:49 <guru3> openttd is using 25% of memory
21:42:02 <guru3> 8mb is what openttd is using
21:42:14 <guru3> but a train moved while i wasn't looking!
21:42:30 <guru3> ooo i saw something move that time!
21:42:32 <Xaroth> what kind of os are you running, windows 3.11?
21:42:53 <glx> Xaroth: win95 runs on 8MB ;)
21:42:53 <Rubidium> you might want to recompile with -Os and reduce the sprite cache a bit
21:43:06 <guru3> make.conf specifies -Os
21:43:25 <guru3> CFLAGS="-Os -march=i586 -mmmx -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe"
21:43:42 <guru3> would using 32bpp-optimized be better or worse?
21:43:57 <glx> will require 4 times more memory
21:44:23 <guru3> causes a screwed up screen
21:45:37 <guru3> what's a good cache size for the sprites? that 4 in mb?
21:46:09 <Rubidium> the more the better, but try 1 or 2
21:46:42 <guru3> i've put it to 2, now to killall openttd, wait for other processes to clear up so it stops swapping and then try again
21:50:55 <guru3> and oops it overwote my .cfg changes, take 2...
21:52:34 <guru3> it's going a bit faster... but not quite full speed
21:53:30 <SmatZ> try switching to OPF pathfinders
21:53:36 <SmatZ> NTP for trains, OPF for other
21:53:51 <guru3> i can't move the mouse smoothely
21:53:53 <SmatZ> maybe you will need to exit the game
21:54:04 <guru3> which is funny cause with the 8bpp i could
21:54:38 <SmatZ> small spritecache is killer for 32bpp blitter
21:55:01 <guru3> that maglev just went close to full speed!
21:55:14 <guru3> oo damn for a minute the mouse moved
21:56:49 <guru3> time to try quitting some stuff and see if it gets better
22:00:30 <guru3> i could at least change the pathfinder settings
22:01:31 <Paul2> I'm generating new maps. It's only generating factories and tourist centres :S
22:01:36 <Paul2> this is the second one I've done
22:01:41 <guru3> 64 x 64 map and i get one island with one town
22:02:04 <guru3> but it is perfectly smoothe
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22:02:59 <guru3> i do have a coal mine and power station though
22:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> try all ECS vectors on a small map :p
22:05:17 <guru3> Citizens celebrate... Road Vehicule 1 arrives at Dretston Mines!"
22:05:44 <guru3> Citizens celebrate... arrival at Dretston Woods!
22:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound like you never played this game, guru3 ;)
22:06:25 <guru3> i've never played openttd on a system with 32mb of ram before
22:07:01 <guru3> well ive played it on a system with 8
22:07:02 <Paul2> this is wierd. Literally only factories. Which setting in new game controls the inustries?
22:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Paul2: which industry sets do you have?
22:08:11 <guru3> would running x in 8 bit color depth help at all?
22:12:31 <guru3> well i'll be damned, it does
22:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Paul2: when you say "tourist center", you have some industry sets active in newgrf settings
22:20:37 <Paul2> I think so, I'm just learning about ECS stuff...didn't realise there was all this new stuff!
22:21:03 <Paul2> I nomrally just play the standard stuff...I dont know what I have done to reset it all
22:22:31 <Paul2> if I just remove all the newgrf stuff will I just play the original game?
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continue to next day ⏵
