IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-15
            
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04:18:35 <Rhamphoryncus> I remember thinking years ago when playing ttd that previewing a vehicle increased the reliability it ultimately had. Is that true, or is it just a myth?
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06:18:17 <planetmaker> good morning
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06:28:40 <Terkhen> good morning
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11:10:22 <Muxy> @seen luukland
11:10:22 <DorpsGek> Muxy: luukland was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 40 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Luukland> Muxy? Goulp?
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14:34:29 <andythenorth> Hi Pikka
14:41:28 <andythenorth> I am working out how to implement production-boosting cargos in FIRS
14:41:37 <andythenorth> example: coal mine
14:41:50 <andythenorth> supplying Engineering Supplies will increase production
14:42:27 <andythenorth> but I need some help figuring out exactly how...
14:43:44 <Rubidium> I'd say: Action2Industries, operator 10 and variable 7C
14:45:06 * andythenorth ttdpatch wiki time
14:46:24 <andythenorth> I was thinking random production change
14:46:25 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Monthly_random_production_change_35_
14:47:24 <andythenorth> Probably increasing current production by 32 units if Engineering Supplies have been delivered...
14:47:25 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Random_production_change_29_
14:48:15 <andythenorth> In this way, players who consistently deliver engineering supplies will get *very* high production values, which is fun
14:48:55 <Rubidium> but what's going to consume those supplies?
14:48:58 <boekabart> not realistic probably, but fun ;)
14:49:02 <andythenorth> 'Engineering' :)
14:49:12 <boekabart> the miners in there, of course.
14:49:15 <andythenorth> The supplies will get 'consumed' by the production callback
14:49:31 <andythenorth> if no supplies are delivered in a month, production will fall by 32 units...
14:49:53 <andythenorth> down to a minimum of 32 and up to a max of about 2000
14:50:04 <boekabart> ow that sucks - means it basically becomes a 'converting' industry like.. factory
14:50:22 <andythenorth> But much slower than the way a factory does it
14:50:34 <andythenorth> month 1: coal mine is at 120t. You deliver supplies
14:50:48 <andythenorth> coal mine increases production to 152t
14:50:52 <Rubidium> so delivering 1 a month for every month => high production, delivering 1000 in January, nothing in the rest of the year => very low production
14:51:13 <andythenorth> Rubidium: yes, I guess.
14:51:16 <andythenorth> Not ideal
14:51:20 <boekabart> yes but play for some years, all coal mines will be at 32.
14:51:29 <andythenorth> boekabart: correct
14:51:33 <andythenorth> also not ideal
14:51:43 <boekabart> i'd say: engineering supplies just add a bit to production
14:51:56 <boekabart> like... they build an elevator or dig some extra tunnels
14:52:03 <andythenorth> original plan was just to take multiply current production by 1.5 if supplies are delivered
14:52:05 <Rubidium> and increase the chance of production increase
14:52:17 <boekabart> but.. they don't need it to operate day-to-day
14:52:58 <andythenorth> partly i am stuck on what I can implement. I'm not good enough at nfo to do it right...
14:53:07 <andythenorth> I can't do maths in nfo
14:53:12 <andythenorth> I have trouble with registers
14:53:14 <andythenorth> :|
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15:03:17 <andythenorth> How much influence over production at primary industries do we want?
15:03:25 <andythenorth> Lots, or just a bit (with some randomness)?
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15:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> little...
15:12:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how little? :)
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15:14:14 <Pikka> andy: sorry, got disconnected
15:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid a feedback loop like in ECS Vectors might be a little vulnerable to fluctuation
15:14:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've never successfully played a game with ECS Vectors :|
15:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> me neither ;)
15:15:19 <Belugas> Twiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
15:15:24 <Belugas> Twiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
15:15:29 <Belugas> ...
15:15:34 <Belugas> feedback loop
15:15:39 <andythenorth> hello Belugas
15:15:41 * Sacro unplugs Belugas
15:15:49 * Belugas bongs on desktop
15:15:52 <Pikka> andy: I got your pm, I'll see if I can knock up something commented :P
15:15:54 <andythenorth> Belugas: does your kid have an opinion on industry production?
15:16:03 <Belugas> candies?
15:16:03 <andythenorth> probably as useful as anyone else's
15:16:05 <Belugas> more!
15:16:22 <andythenorth> more!
15:16:25 <andythenorth> More I can do
15:16:40 <Belugas> In the midnight hours
15:16:41 <andythenorth> 2048t as default for every industry, forget the production boosting cargos?
15:16:42 <Belugas> she cries
15:16:44 <Belugas> more more more
15:16:53 <andythenorth> and only allow maglev?
15:17:43 <andythenorth> Pikka: thanks
15:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like an 18th century industrial chain that produces like 1-4t per month, that you can handle with horses
15:18:30 <Pikka> heh
15:18:40 <Pikka> I'm just reading it and seeing if I can understand it myself :P
15:18:45 <Belugas> andythenorth, seriously, it might be a good idea. jsut don't know how easy it could be to be done
15:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and the industrialisation starts with the introduction of railway into a region
15:19:09 <Belugas> nor if it would require some changes
15:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> over the course of the next 100 years, the industries get more and more effective
15:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> can you teach industries to start out only near a railway line?
15:24:23 <Pikka> no, you can't. near a town, yes.
15:26:33 <Rubidium> Pikka: you can
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15:27:20 <Pikka> I don't know how/if the town rating variables now work in OTTD, with the possibility of >8 companies... but it /might/ be possible to check if the nearby town rates transport companies.
15:27:23 <Pikka> you can, Rubidium?
15:27:26 <Rubidium> callback 28 -> variable 62 -> bits of 'c'
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15:28:22 <Pikka> ah, yes
15:28:37 <Pikka> you can, then :)
15:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> because the early industrialisation really depended on rail lines
15:29:35 <andythenorth> grr I got disconnected there :|
15:30:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what about canals / water transport?
15:30:29 <andythenorth> early industrialisation really depended on water
15:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> basically until the automobile started to take over, which was at least one century later
15:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, that's an option, too
15:31:03 <andythenorth> but rivers aren't in the map generator :)
15:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the next problem i was going to mention ;)
15:31:23 <andythenorth> these are good ideas though
15:31:34 <andythenorth> FIRS will run a long way back, possibly pr 1800
15:31:36 <andythenorth> pre *
15:32:03 <andythenorth> there are lots of possibilities for controlling industry position and production in nfo
15:32:08 <andythenorth> but above all it has to be fun :)
15:32:39 <andythenorth> I do prefer when there's a pattern to where industries locate, as in PBI for example
15:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and delivering 200t+ industries with horses is not fun ;)
15:32:59 <andythenorth> no
15:33:08 <andythenorth> but there will be 300t boats in FISH...
15:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and 18th century boats were not that heavy either
15:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they often were dragged by manpower
15:35:06 <andythenorth> 24t industries would be very appropriate
15:35:22 <andythenorth> FIRS early industries will be things like the farms, blacksmith, windmill, dairy etc
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15:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause> when i think of early industrialisation, weavers come into mind
15:36:22 <andythenorth> the textile mill will exist early
15:36:26 <andythenorth> it's quite big though
15:37:23 <andythenorth> the glass works is also an early industry
15:37:34 <andythenorth> and the brewery...important :)
15:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the textile mill sounds like a good idea for the first "big" industry
15:38:36 <andythenorth> back to primary industry question...
15:38:47 <andythenorth> I've thought about it, and it comes down to two options
15:39:13 <andythenorth> 1. deliver engineering supplies regularly and get large production increases / decreases
15:39:14 <Pikka> andy: pm sent
15:39:33 <andythenorth> 2. deliver engineering supplies regularly and get small production increases / decreases
15:39:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: thanks
15:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Ilia_Efimovich_Repin_(1844-1930)_-_Volga_Boatmen_(1870-1873).jpg <- inspiration for river boats ;)
15:41:03 <andythenorth> being a volga boatman looks rubbish
15:41:14 <Belugas> [11:32] <andythenorth> I do prefer when there's a pattern to where industries locate, as in PBI for example <--- would be easy when the regions feature is done
15:41:26 <Belugas> for that, it needs to really kick in...
15:41:33 <Belugas> i'm such a lazy bum
15:41:37 <andythenorth> Belugas: this regions feature sounds pretty exciting :D
15:42:18 <Belugas> oh it is indeed
15:42:28 <andythenorth> Pikka: woah that code's doing a lot of smart stuff
15:42:48 <Belugas> what's more, i had it in mind for a while, and was abosultely stunned to see that Yexo did started it!
15:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's also this famous song about the wolga boatmen
15:43:56 <Belugas> "don't ship the mariner"?
15:43:56 <andythenorth> Belugas: is there any documentation for it? I looked at trac, but what are regions intended to do?
15:44:08 <Belugas> "the rime of the Ancien Mariner"?
15:44:27 <Belugas> "Childern fo the sea"?
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15:44:56 <Belugas> andythenorth, there is a difference between what Yexo and i plan
15:44:59 <Belugas> but basically, it's the same
15:45:03 <andythenorth> fight!
15:45:06 <Belugas> define some regions on the map
15:45:17 <Belugas> those regions can be assigned to different porpertis
15:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WD0WVL-HjE&feature=channel_page
15:45:38 <Belugas> like (in may case) cole regions, agriculture etc
15:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: please tell me that you know that song...
15:45:59 <Belugas> in Yexo's case, (iirc) it wouldbe usefull to define type of towns etc...
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15:46:19 <Belugas> no youtube at work, my poor Eddi|zuHause
15:46:40 <Belugas> and last time you gave me one, i felt unconscious watching it ;)
15:46:48 <andythenorth> Belugas: sounds interesting
15:47:23 <andythenorth> could certain industries *only* be built in certain regions?
15:47:33 <Belugas> so many interesting ideas i want to do in Open...
15:47:56 <Belugas> andythenorth, that is something i want to put forward indeed
15:48:10 <Belugas> thus cole regions...
15:48:36 <Belugas> dunno how yet
15:48:42 <Belugas> vaporware inmy case
15:50:54 <andythenorth> Belugas: FIRS will / might include survey camps...primary industries have to be built near a survey camp.
15:50:59 <andythenorth> Might achieve a similar result...
15:54:33 <Belugas> yeah, i guess
15:56:57 <Belugas> i am fucking frozen at my station
15:57:04 <Belugas> it's roughly 15 celcius
15:57:09 <Belugas> we are all wearig our coats
15:57:17 <Belugas> coffee does not help
15:57:19 <Belugas> gagagagagagagagaga
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15:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> over here they invented heating for that...
15:59:42 <andythenorth> would it be annoying if primary industry production never increases without engineering supplies?
15:59:43 <andythenorth> probably
16:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it should increase, but only slightly
16:00:47 <andythenorth> ok so supplies need to be fun, but not essential
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16:01:27 <andythenorth> I think doubling or halving industry production is silly
16:02:15 <andythenorth> (looking at cb29)
16:03:31 <andythenorth> hmm..not understanding how default production values work
16:03:41 <andythenorth> how are they randomised?
16:03:59 <andythenorth> do they persist, or does the random production change modify the defaults?
16:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking along the line of: with a steady supply of engineering supplies, you get a higher average change, and when you stop supplying, it falls back
16:04:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm thinking the same
16:04:21 <andythenorth> that's why I'm trying to understand how the defaults work
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16:04:38 <Pikka> andy: there's a base number and a multiplier
16:04:45 <andythenorth> I'm thinking like 1 in 8 chance of increase without supplies, maybe 1 in 2 with supplies
16:04:51 <Pikka> the industries produce base^multiplier
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16:05:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: for each instance of an industry?
16:05:10 <Pikka> yes
16:05:14 <andythenorth> so they are randomised on construction
16:05:24 <andythenorth> (for base)
16:05:33 <Pikka> the base is fixed
16:05:49 <andythenorth> so the multiplier is what the random production change changes...
16:05:51 <Pikka> yes
16:05:54 <andythenorth> k
16:05:56 <andythenorth> makes sense
16:06:12 <andythenorth> if production < 1/4 base, industry closes?
16:06:39 <Pikka> yeah, if the multiplier gets too low
16:07:21 <andythenorth> Right I think I want to use cb 29 with value 0E
16:07:33 <andythenorth> or cb 35
16:08:13 * andythenorth needs to learn about random
16:08:31 <Pikka> hmm?
16:08:52 <Pikka> I don't know how often the "random production change" selects each industry
16:09:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'll use cb 35 - the monthly
16:09:07 <andythenorth> I want something like:
16:09:21 <andythenorth> no supplies waiting: 1 in 8 chance of 32 unit prod increase
16:09:23 <Pikka> I don't think cb35 existed when I started PBI... :o
16:09:34 <andythenorth> supplies waiting: 1 in 2 chance of 32 unit prod increase
16:09:42 <andythenorth> values subject to tweaking
16:09:47 <Pikka> sounds fair enough
16:10:21 <andythenorth> I can do random in python, but unfortunately python != nfo
16:10:27 <andythenorth> shame
16:10:40 <Pikka> :P
16:10:43 <Pikka> it's not too hard
16:12:59 <andythenorth> looks like cb 29 has random bits
16:13:30 <andythenorth> but I don't get how I do the equivalent of Math.floor(8 * Math.random()) to get a value in range 0 to 7
16:13:42 <andythenorth> or am I thinking wrong about this?
16:14:09 <Pikka> var 18 contains random bits
16:14:59 <Pikka> so if you want to get a number from 0-7, just grab 3 bits from that var
16:15:43 <Pikka> 18 00 07 will give you the lowest 3
16:16:37 <Pikka> (I assume cb35 has the same random bits, btw, since it says it works the same)
16:19:45 <andythenorth> and then use the result in a varaction 2 as per usual?
16:20:15 <andythenorth> I'd better go and write some pseudo code :)
16:20:57 <Pikka> yep, that's right
16:22:27 * andythenorth wonders how the bits are re-randomised...
16:22:40 <andythenorth> thinking of doing a 1 in 8 chance of production increase, or decrease
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16:23:11 <Pikka> I assume they're rerandomised every time the callback is called
16:23:23 <Pikka> wouldn't be very useful in the callback otherwise
16:23:51 <Pikka> 1 in 8 increase, 1 in 8 decrease, 6 in 8 neither?
16:24:11 <andythenorth> oh I get it
16:24:15 <Pikka> 18 00 07 02 <increase> 00 00 <decrease> 01 01 <neither>
16:24:37 <andythenorth> :)
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16:24:58 <Pikka> :thumbsup:
16:25:23 <andythenorth> back to the pseudo code...
16:25:41 <andythenorth> Pikka: maybe you and frosch123 should take shifts on nfo consultancy :)
16:25:49 <Pikka> I thought we did? :P
16:26:05 <Rubidium> don't forget the other nfo consultant
16:26:41 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I think there are several :)
16:26:53 <andythenorth> all very very helpful
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16:31:41 <Pikka> heh @ Whos
16:31:53 <Pikka> this is the guy who wanted to hide the IP address of his server
16:32:28 <blathijs> So he couldn't be "hacked" or something? :-)
16:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "please call me, but i won't give you my phone number"
16:33:28 <Belugas> feels like mb...
16:33:40 <Belugas> no pms, just emails
16:33:46 <Belugas> and... where is your address???
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16:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was fairly easy to figure out, but that email is gone now
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16:34:55 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: You should use the operator service then, since they'll just connect you without telling you the number :-p
16:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's called "port forwarding" ;)
16:36:27 <blathijs> Or an open proxy :-p
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16:38:46 <Pikka> my point is that he wanted to hide the IP address of his server, and now he's started a new thread complaining that his server doesn't work "because he's finding wrong IP adress". :)
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16:44:10 <SpComb> yay, I referenced the OpenTTD wiki in my coursework assignment
16:44:21 <SpComb> "The solution is modeled on the author's extensive experience building train networks in Transport Tycoon, being to some degree a limited, simplified implementation of “Path Signals” as present in newer versions of OpenTTD"
16:44:46 <SpComb> (http://www.cs.hut.fi/Studies/T-106.5600/2009/HW1.shtml)
16:46:15 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Random_production_change_29_
16:46:45 <andythenorth> does 0D increase *production* by 1, or the production *multiplier* by 1?
16:46:55 <nicfer1> hmmm, may run openttd on pandora?
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16:47:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: the multiplier
16:47:50 <andythenorth> that's more useful for me
16:47:54 <andythenorth> and hello frosch123
16:48:02 <andythenorth> you've come just at the right time :D
16:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: maybe this is more helpful for you than youtube: http://www.abc-edition.at/g/grafik/5001b.JPG (upper one) ;)
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16:49:32 <nicfer1> that uses a 600mhz arm processor, 256mb of ram, an powerful, opengl 2.0ES-compliant graphics card and a physical keyboard/joystick (1 digital and 2 analog nubs and four keys)
16:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds sufficient
16:52:10 <nicfer1> hmmm... is 'faster' 600mhz for arm processors than 600mhz on x86 processors?
16:52:20 <nicfer1> or is that incomparable?
16:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know enough about arm for that...
16:52:51 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, i'm sorry to disappoint you. I cannot read partitions like that. only tablatures. i know my notes, but i totally forgot what they represent on that writing
16:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> most likely completely incomparable
16:54:28 <fjb> nicfer1: ARM should be faster than x86.
16:54:29 <Belugas> i kow my scales too.... dorian, phrygian etc... etc... but read notes... naaaa.. i was able at one point. i played violin way back then (from 6 to 12 years) then mother Rock Guitar called me and blew me away from that field
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16:54:40 <andythenorth> lets see if I broke the game
16:54:41 <andythenorth> ...
16:59:27 <andythenorth> ooops
16:59:51 <andythenorth> cb35 won't work if not enabled in action 0 (forehead slap)
17:01:19 <andythenorth> need to set bit values 4, 20, and 80.
17:01:28 <andythenorth> how do I do that :O
17:01:42 <andythenorth> I get 04 01 which is not a byte
17:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you do know that 20+80=A0?
17:02:40 <andythenorth> then + 4 = A4
17:02:56 <andythenorth> cookie for Eddi|zuHause
17:03:13 <Rubidium> \b104 ?
17:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, that is not what he wants ;)
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17:05:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: why not?
17:05:42 <Rubidium> 4 + 20 + 80 = 104 and let grfcodec convert that to hex using \b<dec>
17:06:56 *** ecke has quit IRC
17:09:15 <frosch123> iirc there was some unfinished feature that allowed \b(4 20 80 + +)
17:09:16 * fjb doesn't think that 80 decimal is the same as 80 hex.
17:09:32 <frosch123> err \b(0x04 0x20 0x80 + +)
17:10:48 <Rubidium> hmm, that's a good point ;)
17:13:11 <nicfer1> (14:09:22) frosch123: iirc there was some unfinished feature that allowed \b(4 20 80 + +)
17:13:11 <nicfer1> (14:09:23) ***fjb doesn't think that 80 decimal is the same as 80 hex.
17:13:30 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/217407
17:13:33 <nicfer1> how comes that there's one second of difference between those messages?
17:13:43 <nicfer1> if fjb so fast?
17:13:50 <nicfer1> is*
17:13:58 <andythenorth> I build my code up in stages....if I've understood that pastebin code correctly, industry should reduce production pretty fast
17:13:58 <Rubidium> 1) network lag
17:14:04 <Rubidium> 2) he replied to someone else
17:14:04 <frosch123> nicfer1: don't ignore rb
17:14:27 <andythenorth> returning 08 to cb 29 decreases production by 32
17:14:31 <Rubidium> 3) with frosch123 you need quick reflexes if you want to wish him a good night
17:14:34 <andythenorth> only in game, it doesn't :|
17:14:44 * fjb is fast.
17:14:55 <nicfer1> oh I understand
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17:15:15 <nicfer1> happened to me in various IRC channels
17:15:44 <nicfer1> must be the international connection latency
17:16:21 *** Muxy has joined #openttd
17:17:39 <fjb> nicfer1: The reply was to Rubidium but was also suitable to frosch123.
17:18:25 <nicfer1> aha there's the problem
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17:22:32 <Pikka> andy: industries only run cb29 when they're picked by the random production changer, that doesn't happen every month for every industry. also, is there an action 0 bit for cb29?
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17:23:41 * andythenorth slaps self on forehead (again)
17:24:00 <andythenorth> tries with cb 35
17:24:57 <andythenorth> Pikka: yes there is an action 0 bit for cb29 and cb 35
17:25:39 <andythenorth> yay result
17:25:44 <andythenorth> every iron mine just closed
17:25:55 <andythenorth> returning 08 to cb 35 is pretty brutal :)
17:26:28 <andythenorth> could be time for a celebration tea
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17:34:46 <MyCatVerbs> Hey Andy. I thought the iron mines always closed all by themselves in practice? :)
17:40:45 <andythenorth> 04 Do the standard random production change as if this industry was a primary one.
17:40:54 <andythenorth> but what is the standard random production change?
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17:41:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17776 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:41:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Codechange: [SDL] make "update the video card"-process asynchronious. Profiling
17:41:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: with gprof etc. hasn't shown us that DrawSurfaceToScreen takes a significant
17:41:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: amount of CPU; only using TIC/TOC it became apparant that it was a heavy
17:41:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: CPU-cycle user or that it was waiting for something.
17:41:21 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: The benefit of making this function asynchronious ranges from 2%-25% (real time)
17:41:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: during fast forward on dual core/hyperthreading-enabled CPUs; 8bpp improvements
17:41:57 <Pikka> andy: it randomly doubles or halves or neithers the production, or increases/decreases by 1 in OTTD with smooth economy.
17:42:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: ta very much
17:42:40 <andythenorth> I think this is going to be pretty simple then
17:42:53 <andythenorth> no supplies supplied: let the game do production changes
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17:43:07 <andythenorth> supplies supplied: random chance of production increase
17:43:39 <boekabart> asynchronious?
17:43:44 <boekabart> asynchronous!
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17:44:05 <Sacro> your mum is asyncronous
17:44:54 *** boekabart is now known as asyncronouss_son
17:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17777 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: basque - 7 changes by Thadah
17:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: danish - 8 changes by krak
17:45:27 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 47 changes by fumantsu
17:45:29 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: thai - 43 changes by sf_alpha
17:45:45 <asyncronouss_son> happy r17777 everyone!
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17:49:15 <andythenorth> why would industry production decrease if I am controlling both the random change cb and monthly production change cb?
17:49:31 <andythenorth> (assume I am only increasing with my code)
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17:50:31 <Pikka> it wouldn't
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17:51:41 <andythenorth> must be doing something wrong then :)
17:51:43 <Terkhen> good evening
17:51:52 <_ln> buenas tardes
17:51:52 <andythenorth> grr
17:51:53 <Pikka> how are you gentlemen
17:53:30 <andythenorth> iron ore mine: month 1 80t
17:53:34 <andythenorth> month 2 90t
17:53:41 <andythenorth> month 2 and a bit: 88t
17:53:44 <andythenorth> month 3 99t
17:54:04 <andythenorth> but I have no code for decrease, and I think I'm handling all production change cbs
17:54:17 <andythenorth> nothing is being transported...
17:54:25 <Rubidium> months don't have a set number of production moments
17:54:40 <Rubidium> some months have 8, others 9 (or something like that)
17:54:48 <andythenorth> k
17:54:49 <Pikka> yes
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17:54:54 <andythenorth> makes perfect sense
17:55:01 <andythenorth> winner
17:55:13 <andythenorth> I need a faster 'fast forward' in game :D
17:55:27 <Pikka> turn off "full animation", that speeds it up quite a lot
17:55:52 <Belugas> would make more sens to collect data on a yearly basis
17:55:54 <Belugas> UNLESS
17:56:00 <Belugas> you are running a 256*256 map
17:56:06 <boekabart> and update to 17776, 2% - 25% difference !
17:56:15 <Belugas> then you'll be truely monthly
17:56:28 <Rubidium> use r17776+ + disable full animation + disable full detail + use sdl + use 32bpp + use a small map + use a small resolution + zoom in + scroll to a corner
17:56:53 <andythenorth> just turning off full animation is scarily faster!
17:57:18 <Rubidium> oh, disable autosave
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18:00:30 <b_jonas> hello
18:02:09 <Alberth> hello
18:04:09 <Pikka> get out you fools!
18:04:18 <Alberth> bye
18:04:21 *** Alberth has left #openttd
18:04:27 <Pikka> muahahaha
18:04:33 <Pikka> come back you fools!
18:05:45 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:05:51 <Alberth> hello
18:06:19 *** MyCatVerbs has quit IRC
18:06:31 <Pikka> hello Alberth
18:06:42 <Alberth> hello Pikka :)
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18:13:11 <andythenorth> hey it's kind of working
18:13:17 <andythenorth> it being production boosting
18:14:37 <MH-Nick> hey guys,
18:14:42 <MH-Nick> first time playing multiplayer but having version mismatch problems
18:14:51 <MH-Nick> just upgraded to 0.7.3, and trying to join a game with the same but still seeing the version mismatch,
18:14:55 <MH-Nick> anything i'm missing?
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18:16:25 <b_jonas> I should try openttd once
18:16:33 <Rubidium> in the window where you see that version mismatch error, what version of OpenTTD does it say the server is running?
18:16:50 <MH-Nick> the same, 0.7.3
18:17:22 <Rubidium> how's the server called?
18:17:52 <Rubidium> and is the error really "version mismatch" or is it something else?
18:18:59 <MH-Nick> an eg. one i'm looking at is !!!Luukland's Server!!! - I'm seeing the 'version mismatch' error and the Join button is shaded out
18:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> MH-Nick: what does your title bar say which version you have?
18:20:09 <MH-Nick> hm, its reading its off as r14550
18:20:28 <Rubidium> then you're definitely not running 0.7.3 :)
18:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> then that's not 0.7.3
18:20:49 <MH-Nick> ye.. :/
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18:23:12 <Alberth> b_jonas: before you know it, you're hooked to the game ;)
18:23:28 <b_jonas> I'm already hooked to ttd, and I'm playing ttdpatch right now
18:23:42 <b_jonas> and I'm trying to understand how to use presignals
18:24:20 <MH-Nick> ah ha :)
18:24:26 <MH-Nick> reinstalled the updated and its working fine
18:24:33 <MH-Nick> cheers guys
18:25:39 <b_jonas> or in general how I should set up this goods transport where I want to run three trains but I can only use two tracks
18:25:40 <fjb> Presignals become green when one exitsignal becomes green.
18:26:10 <b_jonas> I want to know if I can use presignals in cases where the stations are large enough but I can't use enough tracks
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18:26:30 <b_jonas> the simplest method would be to just buy the pink company that's blocking my way and then I can build a triple track
18:26:56 <fjb> You don't need a track for each train.
18:27:02 <b_jonas> sure I don't
18:27:08 <Alberth> b_jonas: nah, that's too easy :)
18:27:11 <b_jonas> I can do that without pre-signals as well
18:27:20 <b_jonas> but I wonder if pre-signals give a better way
18:27:39 <boekabart> shouldn't PBS signals help you enough?
18:27:51 <b_jonas> boekabart: yeah, those would certainly help
18:27:56 <fjb> boekabart: He is usinf TTDRatch.
18:27:56 <b_jonas> but this is only ttdpatch
18:27:57 <Alberth> they can make a train wait *before* the junction
18:28:09 <andythenorth> looks like I need to learn something about variable scope in varaction 2 chains...
18:28:10 <fjb> TTDPatch
18:28:13 <b_jonas> I will try PBS in openttd certainly
18:28:18 <Rubidium> fjb: ttdpatch has more signal types than openttd
18:29:19 <fjb> Rubidium: Yes, but PBS is associated with YAPP in my brain.
18:29:27 <b_jonas> PBS would help a great deal in that I can run three or four trains on two tracks in such a way that one breaking down can't block the path for the others
18:29:39 <b_jonas> I think I can't do that without PBS
18:29:56 <b_jonas> I mean in a way that if one breaks down then _any_ other can still pass
18:34:01 <b_jonas> I also want signal-less depots but ttdpatch can't give those to me either
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18:34:18 <fjb> There should be examples in the TTDPatch wiki.
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18:35:30 <b_jonas> there's a good example savegame with two stations with presignals
18:37:18 <andythenorth> would there be an easy way to show the current industry production multiplier in the industry window
18:37:19 <andythenorth> ?
18:37:37 <Rubidium> andythenorth: depends on what you call easy
18:37:45 <andythenorth> copy and paste :P
18:37:58 <andythenorth> I guess I go and look in the savegame internals right?
18:38:04 <Rubidium> andythenorth: anyhow... callback 3a
18:38:04 <andythenorth> there's nothing here
18:38:05 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Industries
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18:51:58 <b_jonas> the greatest feature I like in ttdpatch is the hotkeys for the buttons of the train and road toolbars
18:52:16 <b_jonas> and openttd has that too
18:52:28 *** Muxy has quit IRC
18:52:32 * Rubidium reckons TTD has them too
18:54:24 <SpComb> OpenTTD's Path-Signals are different (and better) than TTDPatch's PBS signals
18:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> even TT had these hotkeys
18:56:50 <_ln> indeed
18:57:20 <Belugas> the greatest feature i like in TTD is that you can have trains and planes and trucks and ships
18:57:25 <Belugas> wow... that is soooo cool
18:57:43 <_ln> not to mention, soooo realistic
18:58:24 <Belugas> you want a kick? you want one? please... say so!
18:58:53 <Rubidium> so!
18:59:08 *** _ln was kicked by Belugas (SO!!!!!)
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18:59:42 <_ln> Belugas: wasn't unrealistic to expect that.
18:59:52 <Belugas> :)
19:02:54 <Rubidium> so... time to make some dinner? so desu
19:04:36 <b_jonas> Rubidium: they have only 1-4
19:04:40 <b_jonas> ttdpatch has more
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19:05:31 <b_jonas> it has ` for dozer, 5 for dinamite, 6 for raise, 7 for lower, 8 for depot, 9 for station, 0 for signal, - for bridge, = for tunnel, \ for buy land
19:05:43 <b_jonas> just 1 to 4 isn't enough
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19:09:43 <TrueBrain> this is #openttd, right?
19:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> occasionally
19:11:04 <TrueBrain> hehe
19:11:10 <TrueBrain> fair enough ;)
19:11:27 <Belugas> naaaa... it's #reality_check
19:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like this is more off-topic than the usual talk around here :p
19:11:58 * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
19:12:56 <b_jonas> TrueBrain: yep
19:13:09 <b_jonas> TrueBrain: I'm explaining why I should try openttd later
19:13:13 <b_jonas> it has those hotkeys too
19:13:23 <TrueBrain> yes, that is indeed the only good reason :)
19:13:24 <TrueBrain> haha
19:13:35 <TrueBrain> in the years I read many reasons .. but this one makes it to the top10 (not number 1 :p)
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19:23:35 <TrueBrain> "AH! A BEAR!" - "AH! A BLACK PERSON!"
19:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the cleveland show might get funny ;)
19:24:22 <TrueBrain> I love the intro: "And HE gets his own show?!"
19:24:41 <TrueBrain> "I misread a signal, it happens!"
19:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: did you watch the matching family guy episode yet? :p
19:25:07 <TrueBrain> I don't really watch family guy .. only when I am really bored
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19:31:44 <insulfrog> hi all
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19:40:47 <_ln> j
19:41:03 <_ln> ok, that was return, not backspace.
19:41:22 <_ln> anyway, it is illegal to drink alcohol on the streets of amsterdam?
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19:44:31 <andythenorth> stupid stupid ISP
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19:47:05 <boekabart> _ln: it might be on some, but only i case there is a local (street/area) restriction
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19:49:02 <andythenorth> Which is better:
19:49:17 <andythenorth> 1. industry production increases if Engineering Supplies waiting to be processed
19:49:32 <andythenorth> 2. industry production increases if Engineering Supplies delivered in last 30 days
19:49:33 <andythenorth> ??
19:50:16 <davis> are there any "good" openttd servers asides from openttdcoop , i kind of remember "brianettas standard" with UKRS(?) but seems like it went offline a while ago // sorry for crosschatting.
19:50:20 <_ln> boekabart: ok, thanks, i was watching some tv documentary which made the simplification that it's simply illegal.
19:51:58 <TrueBrain> boekabart: "open dronkenschap" is still illegal ;)
19:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about: you consume 1 engineering supply every 30 days?
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19:54:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it will be something like that, but the processing callback and the production change callback are pretty disconnected
19:54:46 <andythenorth> I don't want to get into storing things in registers....
19:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> davis: i suggest sorting the servers for number of clients ;)
19:55:11 <andythenorth> this is to decide the production change multiplier
19:55:19 <andythenorth> not just the production for 1 month
19:55:19 <davis> well it's not about clients , rather about , uhm
19:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> davis: should give you a pretty decent idea about "good" servers
19:55:23 <davis> some certain level?
19:55:37 <davis> well as in servers with players from irc
19:55:45 <davis> servers that arn't full of people that terraform the whole map
19:56:04 <davis> a good selection of newgrf would be a plus aswell :p
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19:57:52 <Rubidium> oh... I had a server without people who terraformed the whole map a while ago
19:58:40 <davis> maybe it's not only the server , even though i love newgrf. i miss servers with thoughtful players
19:58:42 <Rubidium> although you'd probably run away screaming :)
19:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you ran a toyland server? :p
19:59:38 <Rubidium> no, a 0.3.5 server
19:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, yes, i remember ;)
19:59:59 <davis> haha
20:01:52 <Zuu> Which is then understandable that nobody came there and terafromed it to death. Nobody would go to the extent of obtaining a 0.3.5 client just to do that. :-)
20:02:17 <Rubidium> it probably didn't even have draggable leveling ;)
20:02:30 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so you suggest that we all play a few versions below the latest stable? :)
20:03:13 <Rubidium> if 'stable' includes the nightlies, then why not :)
20:03:21 <Rubidium> (at least if you want OSX clients)
20:03:24 <Zuu> Low enough that there are not just some random people who have forgot to update their clients.
20:03:57 <davis> =)
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20:05:24 <Zuu> Playing on non-nightly versions is probably also quite effective since then everyone has to compile themself. Though that is a bit tedious depending on how frequent updates are made.
20:06:18 <davis> optional someone could setup another server and make it similear to the coop system , e.g requesting password via irc
20:06:33 * davis shrugs
20:07:27 * Zuu liked when he got a special URL to retreive the password. Unfortuatelly Ammler removed that one after a year or something. :-)
20:07:31 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:07:37 <andythenorth_> grr everytime I want to ask an nfo question I get timed out
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20:09:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so what was the question?
20:09:22 *** FR^2 has quit IRC
20:10:08 <Zuu> That said I don't really see a problem of having to join an IRC channel to retreive the password for a game server.
20:11:25 <davis> Well , assuming that the "irc community" has more knowledge in/with openttd than the average public player
20:11:43 <davis> it might raise the quality level of an "public" game
20:11:44 <davis> :p
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20:15:35 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17778 /trunk/src/debug.h: -Fix: remove unneeded newline from 'TOC' debug lines.
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20:38:57 <Pikka> davis: yeah, I miss brianetta's servers, and petern's server...
20:39:02 <Pikka> wb andy
20:39:24 <Brianetta> Pikka: You and Sacro are the only ones who've ever even commented, to my knowledge.
20:39:54 <andythenorth> grr internet
20:40:20 <andythenorth> my ADSL doesn't like the rain
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20:40:33 <andythenorth> I've put an nfo question on the forums
20:40:33 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=45512&p=825054#p825054
20:40:42 <Sacro> :(
20:41:38 <Pikka> sorry Brianetta. :o fwiw scuddles was saying the same thing on steam not long ago
20:42:14 <Pikka> andy: I do exactly that in the iron ore mine example I sent you
20:42:52 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'm just reading that now...
20:43:04 <Pikka> a flag to do something only once a month. if I'm reading what you want to do correctly. :)
20:43:21 <andythenorth> yes
20:43:26 <andythenorth> sort of
20:43:32 <Pikka> hmm
20:43:40 * Pikka reads more carefully
20:43:59 <andythenorth> more a flag to say 'there was cargo waiting this month'
20:44:12 <Pikka> right
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20:44:55 <Pikka> in that case... even easier...
20:44:57 * Pikka wikis
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20:47:08 <Pikka> I'd say set a flag during the production callback
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20:47:22 <Pikka> I'd say set a flag during the production callback
20:47:33 <Pikka> and then check/clear it in the monthly?
20:47:42 <andythenorth_> using the grebs logs as my irc client sucks :P
20:47:46 <andythenorth_> Pikka: yep
20:48:06 <andythenorth_> exactly
20:48:06 * andythenorth_ scared of registers
20:48:14 <Belugas> me too...
20:48:19 <Belugas> sales registers that is...
20:48:57 <Pikka> there's nothing to 'em
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20:49:43 <Pikka> you write to them by calculating the value, then use an advanced 2 operator 10 and var 1A 00 <register #>
20:49:51 <Pikka> and you read them just like any other action 2 variable
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20:55:21 <Pikka> speaking of drawing, I don't suppose you have the coaster hull with no superstructure, do you? I was thinking of trying to turn it into a generic 19th century sailing ship
20:56:44 <Pikka> it wouldn't be too hard to take it off myself, of course :)
20:57:03 * davis =)
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20:57:17 <Pikka> there he goes
20:57:20 <Pikka> there he goes again
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20:57:40 <davis> he'll be back , maybe.
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20:58:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'll have a look
20:58:08 <Sacro> Brianetta: revive the server :(
20:58:22 <davis> indeed
20:58:33 <Sacro> ooh, monospace font with cyrillics
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20:59:05 <Pikka> Brianetta: when http://www.pruplethingz.com/ttdp/blog/1000tl1.png is ready for testing, perhaps? :P
21:00:05 <Sacro> sexy
21:01:09 <davis> what set is that , ukrs?
21:01:22 <Pikka> nope
21:01:25 <Pikka> :P
21:01:39 <davis> haha , help me out then
21:01:43 <davis> i didn't play in ages.
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21:02:14 <Pikka> it's a set that's not been released or publically discussed yet, so it wouldn't help if you had :P
21:02:15 <frosch123> railroad tycoon had "mogul" in america and "spinner" in uk iirc
21:02:46 <Pikka> mogul is the general term for a 2-6-0, frosch
21:03:01 * frosch123 knew he had no clue
21:03:19 <davis> ah , thanks. :)
21:03:36 <Pikka> and spinner for british 4-2-2s, particularly the midland 115 class
21:03:54 <Pikka> NARS has a 2-6-0 Mogul too :)
21:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> 4-2-2 sounds like a weird setup..
21:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> one driven axle and 3 undriven ones...
21:04:47 <Pikka> yep
21:05:11 <Pikka> plenty of speed 'cause they didn't lose much to friction, no coupling rods. but rather poor TE. :)
21:05:26 <Pikka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Railway_115_Class
21:05:44 <Pikka> locomotion's 4-2-2 is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNR_Stirling_4-2-2
21:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played locomotion
21:06:09 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:06:39 <_ln> i bought locomotion as soon as it was released, and...
21:07:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a locomotion CD that my brother gave me...
21:07:15 <andythenorth> ah ha
21:07:45 <Pikka> I have the music from locomotion in my TTD playlist... that's about all it's good for. :P
21:07:57 <andythenorth> Pikka: still scared of registers
21:08:09 <andythenorth> got a branching action2 chain hack for the same result
21:08:10 <_ln> and I wonder if they still haven't released a fixpak that would fix the flaws of UI.
21:08:23 <andythenorth> but I think it's lame to duck the issue :P
21:08:45 <insulfrog> I quite like locomotion becaue you have a bit more flexability in creating unique junctions and station placement
21:09:16 <andythenorth> going to try setting the flag
21:09:29 <Pikka> um
21:09:41 <Pikka> ya
21:09:57 <_ln> locomotion certainly has some advantages and nice ideas compared to *TTD.
21:10:23 <andythenorth> so instead of returning a result, or an action 2 id, I just write to the register?
21:10:27 <andythenorth> crazy talk
21:10:30 <Pikka> no
21:10:31 <insulfrog> one junction you can have in locomotion is the '4 level stack interchange'
21:10:43 <Pikka> you still have to return a result...
21:11:48 <andythenorth> oh poop
21:11:52 <andythenorth> as we say in the north
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21:12:12 <Pikka> hehe
21:12:30 <Pikka> the writing to the register happens as part of the adv. 2 calculating
21:13:33 <Pikka> thanks for the link :)
21:13:36 <andythenorth> If I branch an action 2 chain, will everyone else promise not to notice?
21:13:49 <andythenorth> even though I should do things properly
21:14:12 <Pikka> what's wrong with branching an action 2 chain?
21:14:48 <andythenorth> nothing
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21:14:55 <Pikka> :P
21:14:57 <andythenorth> but it does create spaghetti code
21:15:12 <Pikka> not really
21:16:05 <Pikka> but maybe we're thinking of different things :P
21:16:48 <andythenorth> I'll stick my code on the forum in a minute...if it works
21:16:56 <Pikka> okay
21:18:34 <insulfrog> brb
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21:21:47 <davis> "Both OpenTTD and TTDPatch are not totally standalone gameswhile OpenTTD does not need the Transport Tycoon Deluxe executables, it needs the game's graphics files"
21:21:52 <davis> is that still valid , due opengfx?
21:22:35 <Rubidium> it is still valid for 0.7, it isn't valid for trunk anymore (with opengfx + opensfx or nosound)
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21:23:21 <davis> ah okay
21:24:25 <Pikka> btw andy, you need a fish link in your sig
21:26:23 <andythenorth> :)
21:26:28 <andythenorth> "FISH is Ships"
21:27:23 <Pikka> yeah, I got to the thread via your website. :P
21:28:40 <insulfrog> back
21:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody cared
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21:32:05 <Pikka> now now...
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21:35:39 * davis slaps Pikka around a bit with a large trout
21:35:58 <davis> let's force Bri*anetta to re-open his server
21:36:01 <davis> :3
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21:36:21 <Pikka> you first
21:36:39 <davis> haha
21:36:57 <davis> Age before beauty.
21:37:10 <davis> go ahead :p
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21:47:27 <Pikka> code looks quite reasonable, andy :P
21:48:02 <Pikka> not dissimilar to what I do with my stockpiling... the more there is waiting, the faster it gets processed :)
21:50:10 <andythenorth> well I might stick with it because it works and it doesn't make my brain hurt
21:51:04 <Zuu> andythenorth "FISH is Ships" <-- not "FISH n Ships"? :-)
21:51:23 <andythenorth> :P
21:51:26 <andythenorth> ok bedtime
21:51:44 <andythenorth> final scores: nfo 2, /me 1
21:51:54 <andythenorth> so I lose
21:52:28 <andythenorth> |glum
21:52:51 <andythenorth> but tomorrow is another day!
21:52:54 <andythenorth> ;)
21:53:10 <Zuu> Yea, then the scores are reset again :-)
21:53:25 <andythenorth> one day someone will do something sane, like implement a python - nfo compiler
21:53:31 <andythenorth> and world peace
21:53:43 <Rubidium> but... tomorrow starts in 7 minutes if you accept my timezone :)
21:54:07 <andythenorth> well I'd better get some sleep before tomorrow comes then.
21:54:09 <andythenorth> good night
21:54:22 <Pikka> g'night
21:54:23 <Rubidium> python and sane :)
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21:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> one day someone will do something sane, like implement a python - nfo compiler <-- hey, i did something like that ;)
21:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> only i did not get to the varaction2 part
22:00:07 <Terkhen> good night
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22:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with basing it on python is that python has no "case" statement, but that is the fundamental structure of a varaction2
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22:31:23 <Sacro> where do all the cool kids play openttd now?
22:32:24 <Rubidium> at home?
22:32:43 <Rubidium> although probably... not?
22:32:51 <Sacro> which server :(
22:32:56 * Sacro misses Brianetta's Standard :(
22:33:00 <Sacro> i want some UKRS action
22:35:29 * insulfrog is creating a nice huge network :D
22:41:32 <Sacro> heh
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23:24:41 <insulfrog> well, time for me to goto bed, night all :)
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23:36:06 <Rubidium> bye Stoffe
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