IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-14
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01:26:38 <Rhamphoryncus> huh. My trucks will go to the back side of a depot to load, but not to unload
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01:35:42 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: think i got it done, cheers
01:35:47 <Sacro> also getting the hang of vim
01:35:55 <Sacro> and finally got mercurial and ssh keys going too
01:41:12 <PeterT> mercurial for what OS, sacro?
01:41:40 <PeterT> could you provide me with a *working* download link for windows
01:42:27 <PeterT> this has a command line?
01:42:41 <Sacro> grab visualhg if you want it in vs
01:42:50 <PeterT> what do I type to download the trunk.hg?
01:45:35 <PeterT> what do you use hg for?
01:47:15 <Sacro> learning flex and bison
01:47:28 <Sacro> despite me being 3 weeks ahead
01:48:12 <Sacro> might order a new case tommorow
01:48:24 <Sacro> will look tidier for when I go to lan parties
01:50:12 <Sacro> assuming i can find a drop off point :(
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02:09:53 <Rhamphoryncus> oooookay. 4096 doesn't *sound* that big.. but it is
02:11:01 <Rhamphoryncus> wait, that's only 2048
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03:56:42 <johnj> I desire tips on how to improve the design of my site www.jimem.netii.net
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08:15:09 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17773 /trunk/src/ (sound/allegro_s.cpp video/allegro_v.cpp): -Cleanup: sdl.h isn't needed for allegro
08:20:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17774 /trunk/src/ (crashlog.cpp sdl.cpp sdl.h): -Codechange: show the version of the (dynamically) linked library instead of the one we compiled against in the crash log
08:27:27 <boekabart> heh, allegro ! didn't notice that yet... What's the reason for adding that? DOS, or does it have advantages over SDL (on some platforms)?
08:27:55 * boekabart checked out allegro vs SDL for a TV settopbox client application last year
08:28:17 * boekabart now wonders whether OpenTTD could run on that settopbox...
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08:28:51 <boekabart> Rubidium: <boekabart> heh, allegro ! didn't notice that yet... What's the reason for adding that? DOS, or does it have advantages over SDL (on some platforms)?
08:29:20 <boekabart> (and good morning, of course)
08:30:24 <Rubidium> trying to make a DOS port, which fails for some reasons outside of dosbox. Allegro's MIDI is in my opinion better (resource wise at least) than timidity
08:30:58 <boekabart> you know that there is a DOS version of TTD right ... :P
08:31:25 <Rubidium> really? Didn't know that!
08:32:14 <boekabart> but say, for a linux TV settopbox application, you wouldn't advise switching from SDL to allegro for performance reasons?
08:32:51 <Rubidium> I haven't done any speed checking between the both
08:33:22 <Rubidium> allegro doesn't seem to support resizing the window to arbitrary resolutions by dragging the window, so I'm (almost) never using it
08:36:45 <boekabart> so you say 'doesn't work outside of dosbpx
08:37:06 <boekabart> you're impying that you have an actual DOS machine ?
08:43:21 <boekabart> almost.... but most of them are somewhere high up in an attick covered in dust
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16:22:55 <Belugas> Brantwan is such a nice fellow... I quickly have to raise high the fact that neither NekoMaster nor Brantwan are prefect representative of the vast majority of canadians...
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17:45:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17775 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt danish.txt unfinished/basque.txt):
17:45:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: basque - 119 changes by Thadah
17:45:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: danish - 2 changes by krak
17:45:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
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20:08:30 <Hungarian1986> sorry, i was looking for those newGRFs
20:08:43 <Hungarian1986> which has names put between <----- ----->
20:08:59 <Hungarian1986> and they aren't on GRFcrawler
20:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they are from the openttdcoop grf pack
20:09:20 <Hungarian1986> yeah but the IS2 server needs them
20:09:42 <Hungarian1986> zuHause = at home, auf Deutsch
20:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> get the coop pack
20:09:54 <Hungarian1986> is it on GRFcrawler?
20:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> easy to find via google ;)
20:10:30 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: do you ever go out?
20:10:39 <Sacro> you've been zuHause for as long as I've known you
20:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: yes, but my computer does not come with me...
20:11:16 <Hungarian1986> this is disadvantage of table computer
20:11:25 <Hungarian1986> OTTD runs on laptops too...
20:11:32 <Hungarian1986> i think even on a netbook :P
20:11:40 <Sacro> so the computer is zuHause even if you aren't!
20:11:53 <Hungarian1986> cause if you install some Linux on it, OTTD runs under linux too
20:11:56 <Rubidium> TTD even runs on 15 year old computers
20:12:22 <Hungarian1986> but it is written in C++
20:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it should, as it is 15 years old
20:12:32 <Hungarian1986> so i think you can't run it under DOS
20:12:55 <_ln> you are talking about two different things
20:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> C++ is even older than that
20:13:12 <_ln> and yeah, why would C++ exclude DOS
20:13:12 <Hungarian1986> btw is 7.3 the latest coop GRF?
20:13:32 <Prof_Frink> Hungarian1986: OpenTTD has been known to run on a subnotebook significantly less powerful than current netbooks.
20:13:36 <Hungarian1986> i thought C is older than DOS
20:13:37 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: OpenTTD won't run under DOS at the moment because the APIs (mostly SDL, I think?) it's written on don't have ports to dos.
20:13:39 <Rubidium> OTTD should run on those (old) computer too, as long as you run win95
20:14:04 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: but at least one person has been looking at porting it to run on Allegro, which would let it run under DOS. :)
20:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> MyCatVerbs: afair there's an unfinished dos port lying around. the problem was that it didn't run under a real dos, only under dosbox
20:14:45 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: C++ under DOS isn't a problem. There's a port of gcc and g++ to DOS which works just fine, called djgpp. :)
20:15:06 <MyCatVerbs> Ah, I see. Oh well.
20:15:14 <Hungarian1986> do i look like a programmer to you dudes?
20:15:29 <MyCatVerbs> Everyone on IRC does.
20:15:31 <Hungarian1986> i only know a bit about Asian ladies
20:15:37 <Hungarian1986> cause they are my favorite
20:15:47 <Hungarian1986> i had a Chinese gf once
20:15:54 <MyCatVerbs> It's a side effect of the fact that I'm looking at what you type via a terminal-based IRC client into which people enter teeeeeeeeeeeext.
20:16:06 <Hungarian1986> as a Hungarian white guy it is a pretty bit achievement :)
20:16:07 <fonsinchen> that doesn't make you look less like a programmer, don't even start it.
20:16:49 <Hungarian1986> when i was 12 i played TT and TTD on an old 586(!!!) under DOS
20:17:19 * Rhamphoryncus used to play on a 486/80 MHz
20:17:40 <Hungarian1986> 586 was similar to 486 but it had 16 MByte RAM, 750 MByte HDD, 133 MHz CPU and 2 MByte VGA card :)
20:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i played TT on a 386/25
20:17:48 * MyCatVerbs used to play on... huh, tell a lie, actually he hasn't played on anything older than an AMD K6. :/
20:17:55 <Hungarian1986> so it was pre-pentium
20:17:58 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: nah, the CPU designs were surprisingly different. :D
20:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it was hellishly slow after you bought more than a handful of trains
20:18:24 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: the term "586" refers exactly to the first line of Pentium CPUs. You might be a little confused? :)
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20:18:34 * _ln didn't know a CPU could have a VGA card.
20:19:04 <Hungarian1986> but i couldn't install newer Win on it back then, only Win95
20:19:12 <Hungarian1986> and it had Turbo function
20:19:19 <Rhamphoryncus> So I installed a nightly a few days ago and have been using it. I've just rebuilt from hg to provide more info for a bug report. It complains about a missing language pack. Moving into objs/ fixes that, but now it complains about missing graphics sets. How can I get it to use the already installed ones?
20:19:21 <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: yep, but soon after finding out about that I bricked the mainboard and upgraded to a _great_ 468/66, yeeeha!
20:19:24 <Hungarian1986> what wasn't available on Pentiums
20:19:31 <Prof_Frink> model name : Mobile Pentium MMX
20:20:04 <MyCatVerbs> Prof_Frink: wow, nice. Is it coal-fired? :D
20:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: my father had a 486/60 and it played fine there. i later played it on a 486/25 laptop, and even there it was a lot faster
20:20:25 <Hungarian1986> anyway, thx for the help
20:20:32 <Prof_Frink> MyCatVerbs: Fanless actually
20:20:33 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: Hrmn? The old "turbo" button still appeared on Pentiums. :)
20:20:38 <Hungarian1986> with finding those shitty GRFs :)
20:20:42 <Prof_Frink> 21:20:19 up 372 days, 3:34, 4 users, load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00
20:20:59 <MyCatVerbs> Hungarian1986: all that does is, if you turn it off, deliberately slow the CPU down so that you can play old games which don't have proper timing delay loops. :)
20:21:00 <Hungarian1986> yeah but Turbo lost their functionity, since it wasn't switching the CPU speed
20:21:29 <Hungarian1986> i've seen some strange stuff back in the early 2000s
20:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i threw away that 386 a couple of months ago
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20:21:49 <Hungarian1986> when most ppl haven't got internet, and had 486, 586 or Pentium 1
20:21:59 <Rhamphoryncus> c'mon, nostalgia's fine and all, but I have a serious question here ;)
20:22:08 <SmatZ> [22:21:46] <Hungarian1986> when most ppl haven't got internet, <== the dark ages!
20:22:16 <Hungarian1986> like playing old DOS-based games on PCs which had Win98 as OS
20:22:35 <Hungarian1986> games were like light-speed :D
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20:23:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: missing language packs means that it didn't copy over the language files, possibly you compiled while having the game running
20:23:17 <Hungarian1986> your finger hit the button for 0,0000001 sec and the object what it controlled moved like 100 kilometers :D:D:D
20:23:41 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: MSVC? IIRC you got to copy the binary to the bin directory
20:24:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: didn't copy where? The readme.txt only mentions configure and make, not installation (or even if it's required)
20:24:15 <fonsinchen> Rhamphoryncus: If it's GNU toolchain, you have to call it like bin/openttd from the main directory
20:24:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: linux, GCC
20:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: after compiling it copies the files from build/ to bin/, so if starting from build/ works, something in that step failed
20:25:06 <Rhamphoryncus> hmm. No language pack complaint, but still the graphics set complaint
20:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: what is the exact error message?
20:25:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: no, changing dirs only got rid of the language pack part
20:25:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD.
20:25:49 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: try 'make run'
20:26:04 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: same thing
20:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: the graphics should go into ~/.openttd/data
20:26:20 * Rubidium fears time skew somewhere
20:26:36 <Rubidium> making something not being generated properly
20:26:45 <Hungarian1986> shit, i haven't been using IRC for ages
20:27:23 <Hungarian1986> i used it when i had P2 Celeron 566 MHz with 15 GByte HDD and 128 MByte SD RAm... lol
20:27:28 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: that did it, thanks :)
20:27:33 <Hungarian1986> i had KiWwi ISDN
20:27:56 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: moving directories didn't rid you of the language pack error, it just errored earlier (not later)
20:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes ISDN felt faster than my current line
20:28:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: ah :)
20:28:16 <Hungarian1986> slower than using dial-in on non-state owned phone infrastructure in the plains of Hungary :D
20:28:36 <Hungarian1986> must ping something from a DOS console under Win98 :D
20:29:12 <Hungarian1986> here KiWwl was one of the crappest internets in early 2000s
20:29:17 <Muxy> fonsinchen: i will post the Goulp Patch for 0.7.3 in few minutes in tt-forums/dev
20:29:45 <Hungarian1986> the rule then was that one dial to have internet connection stopped to count the price after 150 HUF
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20:29:54 <Hungarian1986> so everyone used ping
20:30:11 <fonsinchen> you had multiple internets back then? That must be funny ...
20:30:46 <Hungarian1986> but ISDN was like a phone line... paying for the usage
20:31:00 <Hungarian1986> not fixed monthly fee like DSL or CableNET
20:32:03 <fonsinchen> Muxy, if you like I can build a debian amd64 binary from it then.
20:32:17 <Noldo> it becomes fixed monthly fee if it's on all the time
20:32:29 <Hungarian1986> do you know when will they put new developements into Trunk?
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20:33:04 <Hungarian1986> like infrastructure sharing, traffic lights for roads, paths (dirt roads), etc. ?
20:33:29 <Hungarian1986> oh, and signals on bridges :D
20:33:34 <Muxy> fonsinchen, i'm testing code with a first compile
20:35:14 <Rhamphoryncus> How about signals in tunnels, height changes in tunnels, and subway systems ;)
20:35:18 <Rubidium> when they are a) done, b) coding style compliant, c) done, d) is implemented in a sane and future proof manner, e) did I mention "when it's done"?, f) when a developer has the time to review it
20:36:08 <_ln> the f) part takes 90% of the total time.
20:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> usually the f) part invalidates a) to e), so the cycle starts again
20:43:55 <Muxy> until the developer restart from scratch and the new code has nohting to do with a) and is more stronger and powerfull...
20:48:22 <fonsinchen> what's the upload file size limit in the forum?
20:49:05 <Nite_Owl> 2Mb I believe but I would not swear to that
20:49:38 <fonsinchen> 4MB would be OK ... let's see
20:50:51 <Muxy> may be you can send me the binary
20:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's usually enough to upload a binary with matching language pack
20:54:28 <fonsinchen> I mean, I have uploaded the binary to your forum topic :)
20:56:01 <Muxy> what do you think about the ehancements ?
20:57:34 <fonsinchen> I haven't tried them.
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20:59:25 <Muxy> fonsinchen, do you run a dedicated server then ?
21:00:53 <fonsinchen> no, but you requested the binary. Or Luukland did.
21:01:35 <fonsinchen> And as there probably aren't many people here who can build amd64 lenny binaries I gave you a hand.
21:02:18 <Muxy> well yes, thank you, but the patch can be build for other CPUs
21:03:15 <fonsinchen> it can, but Luukland had a problem with his sysadmin which resulted in him needing that binary.
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21:11:00 <Prof_Frink> Yes, you just lost it.
21:11:07 <_ln> an updated version of Sacro?
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21:18:46 <andythenorth> I come, he goes :)
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