IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-10
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01:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> fucking forum... it does it every time...
01:09:21 <glx> of course if you try everytime when the backup
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02:26:12 <Rubix``> ?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 0
02:26:24 <Rubix``> nobody here is stupid :p
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10:06:01 <Pikka> tell me andy... do you set the covered/sheltered cargo class bit for grain in FIRS?
10:06:59 <Pikka> I'm thinking that I will in TaI, rather than add the grain exception to all vehicles in future sets
10:07:21 <Pikka> of course, it means people using the default industries will be able to carry grain in wagons they strictly shouldn't, but whatever!
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10:17:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: not sure...FooBar wrote the code...let me see...
10:20:22 <andythenorth> what doe that tell us?
10:20:26 <Pikka> also, hmms @ random type 84
10:20:54 <andythenorth> I currently have to exclude grain from HEQS vehicles, it's a PITA
10:24:53 * Pikka wonders at people using decimal escapes for bit masks
10:26:24 <Pikka> otoh, changing the cargo classes for grain will /break/ all older sets which explicitly exclude it... ho hum...
10:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which kind of vehicle doesn't allow transporting grain?
10:52:06 <Pikka> in reality or in ttd, eddi?
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10:53:26 <Pikka> in reality it's not often carried in the same basic open wagons as things like coal are... it makes more sense for it to be "covered/sheltered". perhaps the best option would be for TaI to have a completely new cargo...
10:57:23 <Rubidium> my stomach might be a vehicle that doesn't quite allow transporting grain
11:03:32 <Pikka> the other option would be to change the default cargo classes in TTDP/OTTD, but that would require a quorum of devs and grf authors. :P
11:03:58 <andythenorth> Pikka: that's brave
11:04:22 <andythenorth> we have had much 'discussion' with george about FIRS
11:04:38 <Pikka> ecs has "Cereals", but that's not covered/sheltered either... D:
11:04:43 <Rubidium> well... not going to happen without a newgrf version bump I fear
11:04:58 <Rubidium> which will mean old NewGRFs would still 'misbehave' etc.
11:05:09 <andythenorth> apparently the current system is fine.
11:05:26 <andythenorth> I don't understand it, and my grfs only make use of it because Zephyris wrote me a cargo table, but hey
11:05:40 <SK2> is there some way to have all engines replaced?
11:05:50 <Pikka> the current system /is/ fine, andy. it's just not necessarily used properly. ;)
11:05:54 <andythenorth> I have no idea how I am going to create a truck that refits to Steel and FIRS aluminium for example.
11:06:21 <andythenorth> I could figure it out...
11:06:32 <Rubidium> SK2: depending on what you exactly want it's either autoreplace or autorenew
11:07:31 <Pikka> property 16, andy. although you'd have to make sure both steel and aluminininimumum come early enough in the cargo table (ie, in the first 32 entries)
11:07:39 <Rubidium> SK2: which you can find explanations of on our wiki
11:07:40 <SK2> I now have Lev2 engine, and want them to be replaced with Lev4
11:07:54 <andythenorth> aluminimimmumimum :)
11:08:25 <SK2> and where is te autoreplace?
11:08:40 <andythenorth> FISH gets almost *no* cargo specific sprites. Much easier :)
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11:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> seeing as the vast majority here is european, i don't see a problem with setting for "aluminium" ;)
11:11:47 <SK2> thanks Pikka, for your link :)
11:11:52 <SK2> they now are being replaced
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11:12:43 <Pikka> Eddi: I'm british/australian, we say aluminium too
11:14:12 <SmatZ> OndraZizka: good luck :-)
11:14:51 <OndraZizka> SmatZ: Hereby I'm looking for co-programmers :)
11:15:10 <SmatZ> good luck with looking for co-programmers :)
11:15:39 <OndraZizka> Thanks :) Are some devs here? I've just few technical questions
11:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ask the questions, they don't necessarily require a dev at all
11:16:24 <Rubidium> I've heard Pikka is some dev :)
11:16:46 <SpComb> perhaps an MMOified version
11:19:35 <OndraZizka> SpComb: Yes, that's more accurate
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11:20:12 <OndraZizka> "WebTTD - browser-based Transport Tycoon derivate" ;-)
11:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but that abbreviates to "bbTTd" :p
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11:22:41 <SpComb> so change it to 'WebTTD - A Browser-based ...' :P
11:23:35 <SpComb> hmm, I've seen a couple isometric-2D web frontends some time
11:23:53 <SpComb> someone on this channel wrote something that had landscape
11:24:03 <andythenorth> yay, done some more of the stupid boats :P
11:24:05 <SpComb> can't remember who it was... TrueBrain?
11:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe that was TrueBrain
11:24:16 <Pikka> hooray for stupid boats!
11:25:01 <TrueBrain> I never wrote that; I did it for WebDUNE. The one you refer to had a very nice prototype
11:25:20 <SpComb> well, I recall something that looked very much like TTD
11:26:44 <TrueBrain> Well, all I did once was push via PNGs to a web screenshots of the game ... but I never published any screenshots of it :p (as it failed badly)
11:27:10 <SpComb> I had the realtime scrolly-tiles thing, but it was just a hack
11:27:30 <SmatZ> hmmm... directory called "P"... I wonder what it contains...
11:27:31 <TrueBrain> I did that for Webdune ;) Ghehe :) It even had a Quad running in the map :p
11:28:40 * Rubidium wonders what SmatZ's rambling about
11:29:16 <SmatZ> content of that directory was quite explicit and hardcore :-p
11:29:31 <TrueBrain> so you found your porn back on your own disk?
11:29:57 <TrueBrain> isn't that what they all say?
11:30:23 * SmatZ is gone for few hours... this notebook needs detailed examination...
11:31:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no, that would be when he gives the link to his webcam
11:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> by examination i hope you mean "dd"
11:33:59 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: rsync is more useful in this case
11:35:21 <SpComb> storing porn in a TrueCrypt volume is good for society as a whole
11:36:17 <OndraZizka> SpComb: realtime scrolly-tiles thing, that sounds interesting, do you still have it?
11:36:22 <SmatZ> -"in a TrueCrypt volume "
11:36:40 <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype?
11:36:43 <SpComb> OndraZizka: I mean, it was just tiled screenshots from OpenTTD, nothing more
11:37:16 <SpComb> but there has been prior work on actually constructing the isometric tiles with javascript/HTML, I can distinctly remember at least two instances
11:40:16 <OndraZizka> SpComb: I have coded that already,
11:40:20 <OndraZizka> even with elevations
11:40:42 <OndraZizka> but, I can't figure out how to tell which tile was clicked...
11:40:54 <OndraZizka> (for that elevated model)
11:41:30 <OndraZizka> Well, not math :) rather a pixel depth-map
11:41:45 <OndraZizka> There are buildings etc...
11:41:59 <OndraZizka> generally, sprites.
11:43:43 <andythenorth> hmmm....I could really use a collaborator for FISH :|
11:44:11 <andythenorth> a little bit of drawing, and a little bit of coding
11:44:17 <andythenorth> example: I've added ferries.
11:44:27 <andythenorth> They could do with a loaded state. Buses for example
11:44:33 <andythenorth> Which can be had from eGRVTS
11:44:42 <andythenorth> but the ferries also refit to other cargos
11:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> OndraZizka: there is a calculation for which tile is clicked in the game code
11:44:52 <andythenorth> so I need alternatives sprites with trucks
11:45:04 <andythenorth> that's 20 minutes of drawing and 20 mins of code
11:45:24 <andythenorth> I guess without a collaborator FISH will never have all the little tweaks that make a lovely set
11:45:54 <Pikka> I dunno, it seems to be coming along quite nicely :)
11:46:29 <TrueBrain> [13:36] <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype? <- I have my working prototype somewhere, but it is based on a older version of Django, so it doesn't want to boot :p Besides, because it used Python to access a 2D array, it was DEAD slow :p
11:47:10 <OndraZizka> Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's what I wanted to ask, how it's done in OpenTTD. Are you sure it's a calculation, not a pixel map?
11:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure it's a calculation
11:48:12 <OndraZizka> Eddi|zuHause: Ok, and by any chance, do you know which code does this?
11:48:20 <OndraZizka> (svn link at best)
11:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but there can't be that many places that do screen<->map coordinate transformations
11:49:02 <TrueBrain> it depends on the object ... you can never press on a tile, that has no action
11:49:09 <TrueBrain> clicking vehicles, labels, .. have effect
11:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it's not about the actions, for example tile highlighting needs this transformation, too
11:50:04 <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Has an action, if you're e.g. in railway building mode, right?
11:50:10 <OndraZizka> So then you need to know the tile
11:50:19 <andythenorth> oops my nfo crashed the game
11:50:40 <Alberth> OndraZizka: simplest approach may be to follow the terrain tile by tile towards the coords of the mouse
11:50:45 <TrueBrain> tilehighlight_* might help you with highlights
11:51:35 <OndraZizka> Alberth: Perhaps, but if it was not a bunch of <div>s
11:51:47 <OndraZizka> ...thus, rectangles
11:52:31 <OndraZizka> hm, that sounds promisingly
11:52:44 <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD, most of the conversion is done in VpSelectTilesWithMethod() I believe
11:53:13 <OndraZizka> Well I could actually ignore buildings etc, store a set of triangles upon drawing, and then compute the tile from the coords
11:53:22 <OndraZizka> (by searching these triangles0
11:53:37 <TrueBrain> I would suggest to put a <div> at a very high z, and record mousemovement on that (and make it transparent, of course)
11:53:50 <TrueBrain> that makes it simple javascript to calculate placement
11:54:07 <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: That's what I do
11:54:22 <OndraZizka> I thing google maps and similar do that too.
11:56:15 <OndraZizka> Well, thanks for tips, I'll try to make use of them. Bye
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12:07:56 <Pikka> andy: I crash it all the time :P
12:11:19 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17751 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3253]: sometimes clicking on a for the user unfocused edit box would show the OSK (Zuu)
12:15:11 <Rubidium> going to hold a 'who can crash OpenTTD in the most ways' contest?
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12:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the person ho can press the "crash openttd" button the fastest :p
12:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> recently i had this thought: "which idiot had the bright idea to put the "close dosbox" key next to the "make dosbox faster" key
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12:23:46 <Rubidium> well... on some keyboards the close OpenTTD key is next to the give me money key
12:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which reminds me of a question i had... is there a way to get debug symbols into an otherwise-behaving-like-release build?
12:26:27 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I think they are there now (with -rdynamic)
12:27:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: CFLAGS="-g -ggdb"
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12:27:24 <frosch123> afternoon everyone :)
12:32:49 <Rubidium> I used the 'close tab' button to fix the issue ;)
12:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: does "shift+tab" work in konsole for you?
12:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't get mine to pass this combination on to the program
12:34:27 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't seem so, it should swithc to different tab?
12:34:58 <frosch123> shift + cursor left/right ?
12:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i want konsole to pass it on to the program, so it can react to it
12:36:13 <frosch123> both tab and shift+tab seems to be passed
12:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked in kde3, but in kde4 it doesn't
12:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> shift+tab gets intercepted somewhere
12:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't find out where
12:37:19 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: just change the key-bindings for the program
12:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i tried that
12:38:17 * SmatZ dislikes gnome-console because F10 is bound to something in default settings
12:38:47 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps shift+tab is different. I set the shift+cursor left/right to switch tab in that way.
12:38:57 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: isn't it switching your keyboard layout or something?
12:39:20 <SmatZ> when I press shitf+tab in mc in konsole, it does something
12:40:39 <SmatZ> it makes the promt to lose focus
12:40:47 <SmatZ> and all keys stop working
12:41:21 <SmatZ> shift+F10, right switches Konsole tab
12:41:25 <SmatZ> so it's caught by konsole
12:47:16 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17752 /trunk/src/ (osk_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3231]: OSK could reset town name to an already used town name for the 'Generate Town' window
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12:50:38 <Rubidium> as you can see, they're not bothered :)
12:55:48 <frosch123> ah, if it spoils vim users, it is fine
12:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> did you ever notice that the majority of people involved with KDE seem to be german?
12:56:56 <frosch123> that is only because americans, russians, chinese and indian are under-represented
12:57:28 <Rubidium> yes, that's why everything must have a K in it; they seem to dislike Cs in Germany; e.g. Kino instead of cinema/bioscoop
12:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> in german words, "c" only ever appears in combination with either "h" or "k"
12:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "ck", "ch", "sch"
13:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> only a handful of latin- or english-derived words have standalone "c" in them
13:02:03 <Rubidium> and only a handful; not all latin derived words (Benedikt)
13:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the only worse letter is, "q", without any (known to me) exception, it always appears in the combination "qu"
13:03:46 <andythenorth> new FISH release :) I has ferries
13:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: strangely, "c" is more common in german (3,06%) than in english (2,782%)
13:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i know that text in relation to the spelling reform
13:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and i even saw a similar one in english
13:08:14 <Rubidium> frosch123: and still I'd ignore you when speaking like that on the market
13:08:27 <Pikka> btw, perhaps you should put the date of the latest release in the topic title? :)
13:09:03 <Rubidium> Pikka: good idea, though in the 20091010 format
13:09:31 <frosch123> Rubidium: you stayed at home 7 days ago? :p
13:10:07 <Rubidium> though I went to the market on tuesday
13:11:24 <andythenorth> The FISH ferries aren't very high quality...I got bored of them, they need shading and anti-aliasing. But better to have them than not at all...
13:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of letter combination, i still have no clue how the english ended up with a standalone "q" in "Iraq"
13:12:08 <Rubidium> andythenorth: why not high quality? They stay afloat for centuries; that's not something you can say about 'real' boats
13:17:18 <Rubidium> hmm... the irony... German trains service the least used Dutch station
13:18:21 <Rubidium> if they actually stop more trains stop a day than people entering/leaving the trains
13:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the dutch dislike german trains, and boycott the station because of this? :p
13:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the west berlin citizens did that with the east german owned S-Bahn
13:19:50 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17753 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17750): Expenses amounts were printed two pixels too low.
13:21:09 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it might be that you'd have to buy a separate ticket for the train so you can as well buy a ticket for the bus that is a) more frequent and b) stops closer to your home
13:21:58 <Rubidium> so it'd only be benificial if you were to go *to* Germany instead of going to any other Dutch station
13:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you were going to germany, wouldn't you much more likely go via enschede main station?
13:25:34 <Rubidium> if you don't live in the really eastern part of Enschede, then yes
13:32:56 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17754 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make ExpensesList::GetHeight() return a uint.
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13:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> forum request: can the NoAI subforum be moved to the place that previously was occupied by the graphics forum?
13:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no reason why it should be a subforum of the "general" forum
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13:51:46 <TrueBrain> I second that Eddi|zuHause
13:53:00 <TrueBrain> but maybe you should have added a keyword like: orudge
13:53:25 <Alberth> and/or post the request at the feedback forum :)
14:14:32 <SK2> goods make towns grow, right?
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14:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there is nothing in goods that make them grow any faster
14:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> growth only depends on the number of serviced stations, no matter if you deliver anything
14:19:13 <SK2> so its better to build a number of small stations, instead of one big?
14:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> typically a bus route through the city
14:20:50 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17755 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Allow for a zero-size display plane in a NWidgetStacked widget to hide its child widgets.
14:23:07 <SK2> Eddi|zuHause: and giving the bus route a large number of stations makes it grow faster?
14:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> SK2: up to 5 stations, i believe
14:32:56 <SK2> hmm since I build the 4 bus stations the city size dropped from 1437 to 1080
14:34:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:39:00 <Alberth> when a building gets rebuild/upgraded, it is temporary empty
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14:52:11 <frosch123> argh! photon attack!
15:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> simply modulate the main deflector
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15:07:10 <Alberth> or stay away from the window
15:07:26 <frosch123> well, the defense line almost closed again
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15:18:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17756 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Company finances window uses pure nested widgets.
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15:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> is that already the "get rid of old stuff" phase?
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15:23:32 <Alberth> as in 'remove the Widget arrays of the company finances window', yes.
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15:25:13 <Alberth> there are another 50+ windows to do before the Widget stuff itself can be removed.
15:26:23 <Alberth> so depending on what you mean by 'get rid of old stuff', it can be yes or no :p
15:30:13 <Alberth> actually, 51 windows to go
15:30:39 <frosch123> to complete phase 2 of 7 :p
15:31:11 <frosch123> (the fun just seems to start)
15:34:30 <fonsinchen> What are the remaining 5 phases?
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15:36:47 <tokai> (bit late reply, I know. ;)
15:36:55 <frosch123> fonsinchen: "add amazing stuff 3" to "... 7"
15:37:20 <SK2> even though my town has a lot of stations, it dropped a lot in size :(
15:37:34 <fonsinchen> that's a very detailed plan, I must say.
15:39:27 <SK2> what do submarines and combat aircrafts etc do, or are they just for fun?
15:40:13 <frosch123> combat aircraft is for advertising some game
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16:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the photon attack seems to spread around here, too
16:11:12 <frosch123> it turned into a hail attack some minutes ago, now a lighning attack is approaching
16:25:12 <SK2> is there some way to automatically replace engines that hit the max age?
16:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> search for "autorenew"
16:27:19 <SK2> me builds a statue for Eddi|zuHause
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16:28:53 <Belugas> ? you changed nick? your now Eddi/zuHause ?
16:29:17 * frosch123 hopes belugas is at home
16:29:29 <SK2> Eddi|zuHause: I found it under [gui]
16:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: no, i meant "/me"
16:30:13 <SK2> i guess i need to restart my game now?
16:30:25 <Belugas> i know, Eddi|zuHause, was just kidding ;)
16:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> SK2: no, you can set it from the advanced settings menu
16:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that page is heavily outdated ;)
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16:32:44 <andythenorth> ask the group mind: a vehicle ferry should be refittable to all cargoes yes?
16:33:35 <frosch123> you mean the trucks on board?
16:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i'd say same as container cargo, plus passengers
16:33:50 <frosch123> in that case likely no liquid stuff
16:34:23 <andythenorth> well it could be refrigerated trucks?
16:34:43 <frosch123> afaik a truck only refridges as long as the engine is running
16:34:55 <frosch123> and liquid stuff on a ship is always troublesome
16:35:14 <SK2> these autoreplace and autorenew functions are awesome
16:35:31 <Pikka> frosch: so they leave the engine running. :P
16:35:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: ok, no hazmat liquids. and your prize is that you get to help me work out the bit mask :)
16:35:57 <frosch123> yeah, noone will notice when the ship engine is running
16:36:13 <andythenorth> or we could just leave it at 'all cargoes' ;)
16:36:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: no bit mask, use cargo classes :p
16:36:31 <andythenorth> that's what I meant
16:37:09 <andythenorth> words != correct words sometimes in my brain
16:37:49 <andythenorth> I think using classes will be a fail with FIRS. My translation table is not FIRS aware
16:37:56 <Pikka> andy: 18 FF 00 19 00 01 should do it
16:39:25 <Pikka> although that's no hazardous anything, rather than specifically no hazardous liquids
16:40:16 <Pikka> you can't do just no hazardous liquids unless someone invents a refittable cargo callback :)
16:40:37 <frosch123> 9 = 1, 11 = 0,18 = 237, 19 = 5c8 maybe?
16:40:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: I've stuck in your code...allows refit to everything?
16:40:56 <andythenorth> correction. everything except gear ratio
16:41:13 <frosch123> Pikka: it is already invented, also implemented, just not committed :p
16:42:18 <Pikka> should be right, andy. obviously you have no hazardous cargos. :)
16:42:19 <frosch123> yeah, you can choose between testgrfs and patches, but you never get both
16:43:15 <andythenorth> Pikka: okey dokey
16:43:29 <andythenorth> no nuclear waste on that ferry then
16:44:39 <andythenorth> I need to make my brain understand the cargo system, I've been trying for more than a year with no grok
16:45:33 <andythenorth> so hazardous is 100, and flipping that gets me 00 10
16:46:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: I guess I am trying to understand the system so I can work it out instead of asking every time
16:46:56 <Pikka> andy: flipping that gets you 00 01
16:47:20 <frosch123> well, \wx 100 is easier to read than 00 01
16:47:22 <Pikka> you swap the order of the bytes, you don't reverse the whole thing
16:47:34 <andythenorth> 0100 then flip to get 00 01
16:47:51 <andythenorth> wtf is the point of cargo class bit 10 (Oversized and/or overweight cargo)
16:48:03 <andythenorth> is anyone really going to use that to enhance gameplay?
16:48:31 <andythenorth> cargo classes are 10% too complicated
16:48:39 <andythenorth> that 10% is why very few of us understand them
16:48:52 <andythenorth> it's a very anal system
16:48:56 * Pikka thinks they're pretty straightforward
16:49:43 <Pikka> anyway.. back to drawing flat wagons
16:49:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: iirc there was some excel sheet by the coop guis to compute the refit properties
16:50:38 <andythenorth> I can see how if you were doing trains it would all be very realistic...hazmat cars would have to have some spacer wagons...
16:50:47 <andythenorth> high-wide loads could be forced to be behind the engine etc
16:51:20 <andythenorth> drawing flat wagons is the most fun form of drawing
16:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> oversized cargo needs a clear parallel track! ;)
16:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (or in case of trucks: the full width of the road)
16:53:19 <frosch123> oversized cargo is very specific if you can transport it by truck and by ship
16:53:31 <Pikka> are there any cargos declared as oversized?
16:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is implementable :p
16:53:57 <frosch123> Pikka: mb declared half of ecs cargo as oversized, then george fixed it back to grf reality
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16:54:43 <andythenorth> I feel like some parts of the system are strongly influenced by railfans, not game designers :D
16:54:56 <andythenorth> where was Belugas when we needed him?
16:55:00 <Pikka> glass and vehicles, apparently
16:55:17 <frosch123> Pikka: i doubt ecs vectors declare them like that
16:55:50 <Pikka> it wouldn't matter if they did, I'm not aware of any vehicle sets which exclude oversized cargos from any vehicles...
16:56:38 <andythenorth> setting running costs is strangely very soothing :)
16:57:03 <Pikka> every wagon in NARS needs a running cost, up for it? :P
16:57:55 <andythenorth> trade it for drawing boats?
16:57:59 <Pikka> for my latest project I'm actually using a spreadsheet to calculate costs, rather than just guessing at numbers like I always have in the past. it's working well!
16:58:27 <Pikka> you can have my puffer... it needs a lot of cleaning up though and doesn't match your style D;
16:59:48 <andythenorth> I have a spreadsheet too...also works well!
17:00:21 <frosch123> now you only need something which directly encodes it into nfo :p
17:00:27 <Pikka> making up the calculations and then seeing if they produce a number that looks about right is very fun...
17:00:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: planetmaker / DJ Nekkid are halfway to that system
17:01:14 <frosch123> yeah, weird pnfo, i always wonder about the "p"
17:02:27 <Pikka> psuedo! like psuedosprite!
17:03:27 <andythenorth> FISH Large Ferry: 800 passengers, run cost €12,000, buy cost €185,858
17:03:31 <andythenorth> NARS GP38 + coaches: 800 passengers, run cost €32,236, buy cost €198,274
17:03:34 <andythenorth> (train cost is ~€17,000 if not moving)
17:03:48 <andythenorth> Train is much faster...
17:04:32 <andythenorth> I have a game running with FISH, I'm coining it with the coasters.
17:04:39 <SK2> i dont think anyone will use ferry?
17:04:39 <andythenorth> I'm also coining it with NARS though :)
17:04:46 <Pikka> that NARS run cost will change when I get rid of HEP... but not by too much...
17:04:55 <SK2> only the oil tankers seem to be of use
17:05:12 <andythenorth> SK2: I'm not too worried.
17:05:16 <andythenorth> some of you like ships, some don't
17:05:24 <Pikka> I'm using coal-carrying river boats in my latest test game, they're going well!
17:05:41 <frosch123> SK2: are you aware, we are not talking about default vehicles
17:05:50 <SK2> but comparing them with maglev :(
17:06:12 <andythenorth> maglev doesn't float...
17:06:55 <SK2> bridge, or drop sand, if you have the money
17:07:45 <SK2> but it would be nice if there are better ships :)
17:07:57 <andythenorth> SK2: there *are* better ships
17:08:22 <Pikka> and who uses maglev, anyway? :P
17:08:44 <SK2> yeah maglev sucks they only go 543
17:09:07 <SK2> check out the hovercraft, 112 km/h
17:12:14 <SK2> ok im going to sell my maglev
17:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> WOAAAAAAAH, my train derailed!
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17:15:01 <SK2> or even better, buy FISH instead
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17:21:29 <SK2> what do you wish to know Dred_furst?
17:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> he's the guy who greets everyone who joins the channel
17:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and i still have connectivity trouble in my rails...
17:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone got spare 500€ so i can buy new ones?
17:23:31 <andythenorth> well, seeing as maglev is the answer to everything, there's no point drawing anything else. So I'm going to the pub.
17:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> which value do i need to hack for the transrapid to go on monorail instead?
17:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> what's easier? swap the railtype or swap the rail graphics?
17:27:43 <Pikka> eddi: which transrapid?
17:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the one in the dbset, mainly
17:28:41 <Pikka> just property 05 should do it
17:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> who invented these value ranges for prop 19?
17:30:19 <frosch123> they match the original engines
17:30:46 <frosch123> but that does not make them better :)
17:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there were so many diesel engines?
17:32:21 <frosch123> well, arctic and desert and toyland have no electric iirc
17:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did not consider these
17:34:30 <frosch123> but no, i guess i was very wrong with the original engines guess
17:42:18 <SK2> how comes CIA has interests in openttd?
17:43:31 <andythenorth> well seeing as there is nothing but crazy talk here, it's time to go
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17:44:05 <Steve^> Hi, does anyone have a stable download for the UK Renewal Set?
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17757 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt indonesian.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 35 changes by leiric
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 49 changes by Madvin
17:45:29 <Steve^> Pikka's site doesn't want to give me the entire file
17:47:09 <Pikka> the website link seems to work okay here
17:47:31 <frosch123> oh dear, i cannot even blame someone for not noticing that the powernaut helicopter is broken. i guess everyone was happy it is gone
17:47:34 <Steve^> ohh, you can download through the game!
17:47:54 <Steve^> Pikka, Opera stops at 20.7%, Firefox and wget stop at like 2% :(
17:47:59 <Steve^> but the in-game installer works :)
17:48:10 <Pikka> I just clicked the link here and it downloaded fine
17:51:23 <Steve^> Pikka, do you recommend any station packs to go with your trains?
17:52:39 <Pikka> not particularly to go with mine, but between mb's newstations and the industrial station set you're pretty well covered...
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18:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> newstations is definitely missing some larger station builddings
18:48:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17758 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp table/engines.h):
18:48:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Revert (r17208): Use assert_compile() if you cannot count.
18:48:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix (r7326): Powernaut Helicopter got wrong 'load amount'.
18:48:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix (r2639): Call the Evil by its name.
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19:20:18 <Luukland> Guys, the command rcon pass "server_name "! blabla !"" is not working
19:20:26 <Luukland> How to sent it properly?
19:21:00 <Luukland> with or without the "" "" :p
19:22:46 <Luukland> Muxy? Do you maybe know?
19:26:19 <Luukland> Sigh, no-one is responding :p
19:26:30 <Luukland> about 50 users, and no-one to help me :P
19:30:54 <Luukland> Belugas, since you are developer, I am likely to get a good answer from you, are you avaiable?
19:31:26 <Alberth> Nickman87: aside from some small code style issues, the patch looks nice. Unfortunately, I haven't done anything with key handling and filter stuff so far.
19:32:30 <Alberth> Luukland: a common mistake is that developers know everything about the application they work on.
19:32:50 <Luukland> I apologize, but still my problem excists
19:34:12 <Alberth> Sorry, cannot help you, I never even entered a rcon command
19:34:51 <Luukland> Maybe if I change the question a litte, how can you sent; command var command var
19:35:02 <Luukland> I did command var "command "var""
19:35:10 <Luukland> Which is obviously wrong
19:35:58 <Luukland> I need your help, I cant seem to be able to change my server name by use of rcon, since I cant sent; command var command var
19:36:19 <Muxy> server name is changed in the cfg file.
19:36:35 <Luukland> of course, but I would like to change it by use of rcon
19:36:40 <Muxy> it's better because of console handling space
19:37:01 <Luukland> Certainly ;) But I made mistake youknow ^^
19:37:06 <Luukland> Now my server name is wrong
19:37:07 <Muxy> or remote console is not the best way if you have space in your sever name
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19:37:55 <Nickman87> yeah, I have to check the code again for some style issues indeed Alberth :)
19:37:57 <Muxy> the problem is you cant stop your server...
19:38:34 <Luukland> But there is no way to sent it all the way?
19:38:55 <Luukland> !Luukland's_Server! is the way it is now
19:39:00 <Luukland> Since I can't use a space
19:40:25 <Muxy> until you will have ssh access to your host
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19:40:51 <Luukland> Will contact server engineer again :P
19:41:38 <Muxy> or request him a web interface like myottd
19:43:09 <Nickman87> Alberth, is it possible to add padding inside of an edit box? Like, I want the text inside the edit box to be draw a single pixel lower
19:43:17 <Nickman87> I think it sould look better on all the text boxes btw
19:43:24 <Nickman87> now the text sticks to the top
19:43:48 <Luukland> Muxy, I will do that :)
19:44:02 <andythenorth> I had a nice pizza and some carpaccio di manzo
19:44:23 <Muxy> and me a maroille panini
19:44:50 <andythenorth> did I miss anything? Are we still making Maglev Tycoon, or do I need to start drawing again?
19:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> draw a new maglev track :p
19:47:09 <Alberth> Nickman87: the only way to change it is to change it everywhere, unless you do custom rendering.
19:48:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I could draw one that looks like two steel rails? And if railtypes ever ship, I could limit it to 120kmh...
19:48:16 <Alberth> Nickman87: at the moment, I use values copied from the old widget array implementation.
19:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need ships to ship railtypes :p
19:48:35 <Alberth> Nickman87: current main concern is to get rid of the old widget arrays.
19:48:57 <andythenorth> roadtypes are my dream
19:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then you need to beat up petern to get your dream come true :)
19:49:44 <Nickman87> Is there a list of unconverted files? Or just search for the old array structure? :D
19:50:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: where does petern live?
19:50:57 <andythenorth> I'll be straight round there...
19:50:59 <Alberth> it gets updated every now and then
19:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, closer to you than to me, i presume ;)
19:53:43 <Nickman87> URL saved, when I'm in the mood I'll see if I can tackle another file ;)
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19:58:46 <Nickman87> for the patch to possibly get submitted into trunk, should it be posted on flyspray? Or just keep updating the topic on the forum?
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20:09:08 <Alberth> Nickman87: Both are possible, in general, patches are better preserved when submitted to fly spray. On the other hand, there are only very few users that find things in FS, I suspect.
20:09:32 <Nickman87> A combination is possible too? :)
20:10:06 <Alberth> And of course the discussion at FS is limited to just technical stuff.
20:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you can put a forum link in the FS task description ;)
20:10:47 <Nickman87> But since it is actually Zuu's patch, it's not realy up to me to push it towards trunk, unless he approves :)
20:10:49 <Alberth> it may be better to first post at the forum and once it is stable enough, submit it.
20:11:35 <Alberth> oh, and try to keep patches as small as possible and for a single purpose only.
20:11:45 <Alberth> much like our commits.
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20:12:48 <Alberth> I often build a patch queue to get some feature nicely partioned.
20:18:25 <SK3> did anyone read my guestion? Is it possible to generate a map and then edit it with the map editor?
20:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. in the scemario editor, you can create a random map
20:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> along with random towns and random industries
20:20:35 <Nickman87> yeah, Zuu pointed me out to patch queue too, have to look into it :)
20:22:51 <Alberth> basically, you need to stack several patches on top of each other, while still being able to change each of them. Doing that maually seems such a nightmare I don't even want to know.
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20:23:49 <Alberth> the alternative is to first make the entire patch, then break it down in pieces while copying it to a new repo
20:24:21 <frosch123> SK2: you can also rename every .sav to .scn and open it in scenario editor
20:24:45 <Alberth> but you need a editor with diff capabilities then :p
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20:27:25 <andythenorth> ^^ doesn't like maths :D
20:30:19 <andythenorth> more maths: I've drawn 9/16 of the ships I want to include in FISH v1
20:30:24 <andythenorth> but I'm not doing the bloody smoke
20:33:26 <frosch123> what kind of smoke?
20:34:44 <Lakie> From the chimies on earlier boats?
20:34:54 <Lakie> Or possibly from diesel?
20:36:40 <frosch123> then it is a good idea to save work on uninvented stuff
20:36:57 <frosch123> which newgrf do not know
20:43:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: I think the default train smoke would do very well for ship smoke :)
20:43:28 <andythenorth> of course that would need implementing :|
20:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't i read something about effect offset for ships in the newgrf wiki? or was that about the breakdown smoke?
20:50:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can't see anything on action 0 for ships
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21:53:20 <andythenorth> FISH FISH FISH...coming soon: log rafts :)
22:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> how about a 14th century Hanse ship set?
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23:08:57 <Rubidium> "You now have the subforum for 32 byte graphics, is that not enough?" <- did TB really make it that cool?
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