IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-10-09
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08:26:24 <fonsinchen> Ich wünsche einen Guten Morgen!
08:28:19 <Rubidium> that does imply that fonsinchen has a bad morning, right?
08:29:29 <planetmaker> if A --> B doesn't imply A
08:30:11 <Rubidium> but languages aren't always pure logic
08:30:20 <fonsinchen> It implies I had a funny evening, though.
08:30:45 <planetmaker> Rubidium: they aren't. But wishing for something doesn't imply that it doesn't exist. IMO
08:30:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I wish I did eat breakfast
08:30:56 <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's different grammar
08:31:23 <Rubidium> why? I wish "<something>"
08:31:44 <planetmaker> I wish <something in the past> vs. I wish <something general to be>
08:32:20 <Rubidium> but morning is in the past... for Pikka :)
08:32:41 <planetmaker> it's always in the future ;:P
08:33:04 <planetmaker> else I'd say "Ich wünsche einen Guten Morgen gehabt zu haben"
08:33:50 <planetmaker> "I wish (you all) a good morning" vs. "I wish it would be a good morning" vs. "I wish it was / had been a good morning"
08:34:00 <planetmaker> meaning is always slightly different
08:36:06 <boekabart> So from now on we should all say : I hope everyone will have a good morning, afternoon and evening!
08:36:22 <planetmaker> totally PC, totally boring ;-)
08:36:34 <planetmaker> I guess I'll stick to "moin" ;-)
08:36:44 <planetmaker> it fits every time of the day anyway
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09:55:15 <fonsinchen> in ProcessOrders() at order_cmd.cpp:1779 we set last_station_visited for waypoint-like ("via") stations. I think this is useless. I don't see any occurence of last_station_visited positively depending on that behaviour. Order::ShouldStopAtStation() would behave differently in that a vehicle doesn't stop at a station it has last visited, even if it has passed (without stopping) other stations in between. I think this is more consistent with it not s
09:55:15 <fonsinchen> In general the rationale is that for waypoints the last_station_visited isn't set either, so it'd be consistent to not set it for stations acting as waypoints. Can we agree on that? Also it would be nice for cargodist to know the last station a vehicle has loaded or unloaded, not some station it has passed on the way.
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10:07:50 <blathijs> fonsinchen: Your first messaged is truncated at "I think this is more consistent with it not s"
10:08:04 <blathijs> fonsinchen: But your point makes sense to me
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10:11:38 <fonsinchen> ... with not setting last_station_visited for waypoints.
10:12:25 <fonsinchen> Those side effects in GetOrderStationLocation are hideous. No one expects that.
10:13:34 <fonsinchen> And I don't see the reason for not letting a vehicle stop at a station twice in a row, either. If the player wants it to, it shall. It won't unload anyway.
10:15:03 <blathijs> Doesn't this also apply when a train passes a station without an explicit order?
10:15:21 <blathijs> For example when a train has to loop back through a station to get on?
10:17:27 <fonsinchen> if the player hasn't set non-stop there is no reason of not letting it stop there twice. Maybe it should load some additional stuff.
10:30:51 <Rubidium> well, there must be some valid reason why it was added in the first place
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10:34:43 <covax> I just compiled OpenTTD 7.2 in Gentoo. The game not started. and write "Error: Cannot open file 'sample.cat'".
10:34:57 <Rubidium> have you read the readme?
10:35:21 <Rubidium> then read that first
10:40:14 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: That reason is hard to find. And the way this "feature" was introduced is ... questionable.
10:41:44 <Rubidium> imagine you got a 2 tile terminus station and no non-stop orders and a 1 tile long train, should it stop twice at that station?
10:42:31 <blathijs> Probably not, but I guess this is not the best way to fix that problem
10:42:36 <blathijs> It is the easiest, I guess
10:43:44 <Rubidium> then what is a better solution?
10:44:24 <boekabart> in your case, it never leaves the station so that makes it a slightly different csae
10:45:40 <blathijs> I suspect the code now considers stopping whenever a train is about to leave a station (e.g., at the last tile of a station)
10:45:55 <boekabart> engine or last car?
10:46:23 <Rubidium> nope, it considers stopping each time it enters a station tile
10:46:44 <boekabart> from a non-station tile or even from another station tile?
10:46:45 <blathijs> Uh? Then why doesn't it stop on every tile?
10:46:56 <blathijs> Or rather, why doesn't it stop on the first tile?
10:47:09 <boekabart> it CONSIDERS... but is smart :)
10:47:27 <Rubidium> blathijs: when a train enters a station platform is slows down, right?
10:47:38 <blathijs> Rubidium: Dunno, I guess
10:47:57 <blathijs> Rubidium: So it decides to stop when entering the station, but then slows down gradually until the last tile?
10:48:18 <covax> where can I download "3rd party files"?
10:48:20 <Rubidium> blathijs: depends on where you want the train to stop
10:48:45 <blathijs> Rubidium: Can it stop anywhere else then at the last tile?
10:48:47 <Rubidium> covax: at the same place where you can download Windows
10:48:56 <Rubidium> blathijs: yes it can
10:49:24 <Rubidium> it can stop at the end of the platform, the begin of the platform and the middle of the platform
10:49:42 <Rubidium> similar to left, right and center alignment of text
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10:49:50 <Rubidium> blathijs: somewhat yes
10:50:07 <blathijs> Right, didn't see that option yet :-)
10:50:27 <blathijs> Anyway, I'd say it should consider stopping only when it enters a station tile from a non-station tile, then?
10:50:37 <blathijs> As the "better" solution
10:50:44 <blathijs> Play more in general... :-p
10:50:57 <Rubidium> blathijs: that would require a massive rework of stuff
10:52:04 <blathijs> Rubidium: Hence my remark that the current solution is the easiest (but not the best)
10:52:12 <blathijs> Not including required work in my definition of
10:52:17 <blathijs> "best", of course :-p
10:52:55 <Rubidium> and I got no clue how the stopping would be affected if someone starts to remove parts of the station/makes them untraversable/adds parts to the station etc.
10:53:53 <Rubidium> the 'best' solution is 'ofcourse' calculating from a trains point of view how far it has to go and factor in resistance and max breaking force (TE?) to determine when to start stopping etc.
10:54:26 <Rubidium> but that requires even more work as you'd have to do the same with signals too
10:55:01 <blathijs> Huh? I don't see that relating to the problem of stopping twice in the same station?
10:56:10 <fonsinchen> So, the strange trick with GetOrderStationLocation and ShouldStopAtStation is not easily removed, I guess. But not setting last_station_visited in ProcessOrders wouldn't change that a lot, or would it?
10:56:18 <fonsinchen> I mean it triggers if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) && (v->current_order.GetNonStopType() & ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_DESTINATION_STATION)
10:57:26 <Rubidium> probably not, even then you can't assume that last_station_visited is valid in any way
10:58:01 <fonsinchen> the code also checks this one: IsTileType(v->tile, MP_STATION) && v->current_order.GetDestination() == GetStationIndex(v->tile)
10:58:44 <fonsinchen> And there is a difference between invalid and bogus last station
10:58:52 <fonsinchen> I can handle invalid last stations
11:00:56 <Rubidium> my tummy says it can handle lunch :)
11:03:14 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17746 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: 'operator new' doesn't return NULL, NetworkSend_Init() is useless
11:03:51 * boekabart thought that it might - in very bad cases :)
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11:12:20 <fonsinchen> Yeah, I'm also having a very bad case of lunch ...
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11:16:53 <Rubidium> boekabart: it might, in which case you've overridden the new operator and you return NULL. But that's not according to the C++ specs
11:17:12 <Rubidium> as such the constructor might/will crash on it
11:17:27 <boekabart> doesn't it also return null if you're out of heap space?
11:17:50 <boekabart> or is that a signal
11:19:59 <Rubidium> C++ specs: ... it indicates failure to allocate storage by throwing a bad_alloc exception (clause except, lib.bad.alloc); it returns a non-null pointer otherwise.
11:34:04 <boekabart> that won't solve his sample.cat problem though ?
11:34:20 <Rubidium> not if he reads the readme
11:34:55 <Rubidium> (be aware of the double negative)
11:35:46 <covax> planetmaker, thanks a lot.
11:36:36 <planetmaker> yw. Yes, mind to do with the sample.cat what is proposed in the readme: create an empty one ;-)
11:36:51 <planetmaker> or you go into doing an illegal download
11:37:20 <planetmaker> if you play trunk, though, not 0.7.x, you might rather want to get OpenSFX as well.
11:44:13 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17747 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/masterserver/handler.cpp: [MSU] -Update: to compile again after r17746
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12:26:53 <Romano> How can I switch on 'irregular stations' in OpenTTD?
12:27:21 <boekabart> just recompile the kernel :P
12:27:42 <boekabart> ah no, that's the answer to 'how can I (*.*) in Linux :)
12:28:12 <glx> else it's somewhere in advanced settings
12:30:07 <Romano> well if i use the control button to build a second dock on one station, i get the message too close to another dock :S
12:30:47 <glx> you can't have multiple docks in a station
12:31:53 <Romano> well, if go to tt-forums.net i see screenshots there are multiple docks at a station
12:34:39 <glx> probably different stations then
12:35:58 <Romano> then i build two different docks next to each toher =)
12:46:51 <Rubidium> boekabart: you better highlight Ammler or the other openttdcoop admins
12:46:54 <Belugas> i would guess it's how it's written in cyrilic :)
12:50:00 <glx> and probably without the с
12:50:35 <Rubidium> glx: wikipedia says otherwise :)
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12:52:52 <Rubidium> hmm... actually... wikipedia implies both can be right
12:53:07 <Rubidium> "The English name comes from the Russian белуга (beluga) or белуха (belukha)"
12:53:52 <Rubidium> the Russian wiki uses the latter
12:54:06 <boekabart> the latter is with a Dutch G, the former with an english G
12:54:21 <Belugas> and in french, it's belouga
12:54:25 <Belugas> so... waht would it be?
12:54:44 <boekabart> how do YOU pronounce your nick?
12:55:18 <Belugas> If i was an english speaker, it would sound like -> Bay-loo-ga
12:55:46 <Rubidium> tick tick tick tick tick tick tick :)
12:56:03 <Belugas> sometimes, i simply pronounce it as Slash Meee
12:56:25 <Belugas> yeah, you're right, Rubidium.. time ticks and i'm not productive...
13:01:19 <boekabart> but then again, maybe he's posing to be the plane
13:01:32 <boekabart> or one of the other 6 things from the wiki disamb. page :)
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13:04:55 <Belugas> nope. the plane stuff came afterward
13:05:39 <Belugas> in my mind, the belugas in questions are referring to the divers club i'm in. Which are directly related to the white whales
13:06:12 <Belugas> and the "s" comes form the fact that i waqs doing the web site at that time, and it was always refering to the plural, not singular
13:06:20 <Belugas> here's my nick history
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13:15:44 * boekabart was right after all!
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14:46:11 * Muxy thinks Owen is working hard with the forum
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15:11:10 <Hopefull> have a thing im have trouble with! somebody can help me?
15:12:40 <Hopefull> have looked at the wiki and many other places,but not gettng it 2 work
15:13:18 <Hopefull> scripts for my server,auto scr ++
15:13:44 * Rubidium has no clue what scripts you're talking about
15:13:50 <Belugas> 2 work, 3 work, 4 work 5 work...
15:14:15 <Muxy> openTTD 0.7.3 works fine
15:14:41 <Hopefull> but im trying 2 get it 2 work,
15:15:08 <Belugas> Hopefull, it's TO, not 2. 2 -> Two
15:15:40 <Hopefull> im not at openttd irc channel or?
15:15:47 <Belugas> no "yeah yeah", "yes, i'm sorry"
15:15:54 <blathijs> Unless he meant "at" but forgot to press shift, of course :-)
15:16:08 <Muxy> as a begining you can play with on_server_connect.scr
15:16:43 <Muxy> and the script will run each time a client will connect to the game.
15:16:50 <Hopefull> yes i have tried that
15:17:15 <Muxy> and rename or copy the .example into a .scr ?
15:17:16 <Hopefull> but a bug or something closes the Openttd:S
15:17:47 <Hopefull> yes, i have read about that Muxy
15:18:14 <Muxy> the server stops ? process ends ?
15:18:44 <Hopefull> yes close all of openttd, and i must start it again
15:18:52 <Rubidium> Hopefull: you're saying the equivalent to "my text editor doesn't work" in the Windows IRC channel, i.e. giving too little information
15:19:35 <Rubidium> especially because there are two types of scripts and I *think* you mean a wrapper script that runs 'around' OpenTTD instead of the (few) scripts that run 'in' OpenTTD
15:19:36 <Muxy> and you have a message when server stops ?
15:20:14 <Hopefull> have been a problem or something, i can check
15:20:41 <Rubidium> and "auto src ++" doesn't five me anything useful in google
15:23:34 <blathijs> I think the ++ was supposed to mean "and server" and connect with "rules" in the next line
15:23:46 <Hopefull> "We have created an error report that you can send to us. We will treat this report as confidential and anonymous"
15:24:19 <Hopefull> openttd.exe have problems and must shut down, sorry for ....
15:24:26 <blathijs> Hopefull: The bottom line of some of the things we're saying is that it would help if you would try to use complete and correct sentences, and use those to describe the problem better. We really want to help you find your problem, but only if you explain it properly :-)
15:26:11 <Hopefull> im not good at english, so im trying to explain the best i can..
15:26:47 <Hopefull> had the orginal manyy years ago
15:26:56 <Muxy> and the server crashes at what moment ? when a client try to connect or when starting the server ?
15:27:15 <Muxy> and how you start the server ? from the multi-player window or from command line ?
15:27:39 <Hopefull> no when im writing " exec on_server_connect.scr" and i use multi-player window
15:28:49 <glx> on crash you should get the crash window showing crash log
15:29:34 <DorpsGek> welshdragon: Prof_Frink was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 9 hours, 38 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: * Prof_Frink checks for sanity... none found.
15:29:47 <welshdragon> Prof_Frink: you just lost the game!
15:30:11 <Muxy> and if you try "exec scripts/on_server_connect.scr" ?
15:30:41 <Hopefull> i have not tried that u write Muxy
15:31:06 <Muxy> because scripts should be located in a "scripts" folder
15:32:04 <Hopefull> "script file not found"
15:32:11 <Muxy> and where is located your script file ?
15:32:22 <Yexo> Hopefull: can you copy the contents of on_server_connect.scr to paste.openttd.org?
15:32:54 <glx> yeah maybe the content is the problem
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15:33:54 <Yexo> open the script file in an editor,select all, copy
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15:34:27 <Yexo> after cliking send copy the url here
15:35:22 <Hopefull> have just write Welcome in that script
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15:35:52 <Muxy> juste "Welcome" or as the example "Say "Welcome""
15:35:56 <glx> still, paste the exact content
15:36:59 <Muxy> put your name and push SEND
15:37:35 <Muxy> add SAY before "Welcome"
15:39:57 * Muxy remembers .scr is binary extention for windows screen savers
15:40:38 <Hopefull> but who on this "Use ... syntax highlighting"
15:41:07 <Yexo> what has syntax highlighting to do with any of this?
15:41:54 <Hopefull> just see this at that site u write
15:45:33 <Hopefull> this files who is in the scripts folder is example files...
15:45:46 <Yexo> so what are the _exact_ steps you take? Start with starting openttd (by double clicking the icon, from the command line, by using an external tool?) and include every button press / keystroke you make
15:45:53 <Muxy> have you modified your script file ?
15:47:30 <Hopefull> i double tap openttd icon, and chose multiplayer, create server, and chose the game would be and start
15:48:15 <Hopefull> muxy: changed it or? you mean?
15:49:36 <Muxy> instead of having "Welcome" in your script, use Say "Welcome"
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15:49:49 <Hopefull> yes that i have done
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15:50:33 <Yexo> Hopefull: you still leave out a lot of information. What do you do after you started a server that causes the crash?
15:50:50 <Yexo> What is the _exact_ message you get when it crashes?
15:51:23 <Hopefull> i write exec on_server_connect.scr and its crash( in the console)
15:51:45 <Muxy> and where is located your script ? in the scripts folder or with openttd.exe ?
15:51:47 <Yexo> can you upload a screenshot of what you see when it crashes?
15:52:00 <Hopefull> yes buts in Norwegian
15:52:31 <Muxy> AAh: i'm here but not for a long time
15:52:48 <AAh> Ah, muxy, my service contract :p
15:52:52 <Muxy> then type exec scripts/on_server_connect.scr
15:52:56 <AAh> Do you maybe have something ready yet?
15:53:43 <Muxy> and this evening is footbal evening !
15:54:34 <Muxy> AAh: i burnt my time with my watch gui patch
15:55:47 <Muxy> have to go, bye. hope you will fix your trouble Hopefull !
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16:05:00 <Yexo> Hopefull: I don't have a facebook account and I'm not going to create one to look at that screenshot
16:05:54 <Hopefull> then u must give me a site to upload screenshot, because i dont know about some site:S
16:06:34 <Alberth> imagehost.org, or use google to search one
16:06:36 <Yexo> just google for"photo upload"
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16:12:18 <Yexo> glx: any ideas why openttd's crash handler isn't called?
16:12:44 <glx> unless it's not an msvc build
16:13:21 <Yexo> it appearsto be 0.7.3, given the experienceof Hopefull I doubt he build it himself
16:13:58 <Yexo> do the win9x binaries run on win xp?
16:15:16 <glx> yes, are you using win9x, win32 or win64 ?
16:16:13 <Hopefull> orginal is vista but i have installed xp, win 32 i thinc
16:16:24 <glx> that was not the question :)
16:16:26 <Yexo> and what version of openttd did you download?
16:16:50 <Yexo> yes, but the win9x, win32 or win64 binaries
16:17:08 <Hopefull> how do i find out that then?
16:20:29 <Hopefull> im not easy to help:s
16:20:52 <Yexo> I have no idea if you can easily find out
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16:21:09 <glx> unless you still have the installer somewhere
16:21:19 <Yexo> only way I can think of is comparing the filesize of openttd.exe with vanilla downloads of the 3 versions
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17:17:44 * Belugas starts Yet Another Regression Test
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17:35:13 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17748 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix: crash when right clicking on the 'toggle' toolbar button
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17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17749 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt romanian.txt spanish.txt):
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
17:45:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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18:04:35 <Belugas> RE-TRY SYSTEM PROBLEM
18:04:43 <Belugas> for like half an hour...
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18:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> oh fuck... i played siedler (1) all day, and now i can't get that music out of my head...
18:16:02 <Rubidium> nothing you can solve with water/air
18:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to see the correlation
18:16:46 <Rubidium> should there be one?
18:19:24 <Belugas> unless there is water or air in your head?
18:19:53 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, turn on some Depeche Mode!
18:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be an idea...
18:20:31 <Rubidium> Belugas: "Enjoy the silence"?
18:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what an irony!! :p
18:26:46 <frosch123> you are evil, now i also have settlers 1 music in my head
18:36:58 <Belugas> so... waiting for the operator to massacre my transactions now..
18:37:24 <SmatZ_> now how to set it to KDE3-like look&feel
18:37:33 <Belugas> Is it a nice country?
18:37:50 <SmatZ_> needs some tuning, but I think I will like it here ;)
18:39:52 <SmatZ_> finally switched to xorg1.6 and kde4...
18:40:23 <Seberoth> I hope it is working without problems...^^
18:42:21 <SmatZ_> hmm why does it gentoo names "konversation-2.0.0" when it's actually 1.2...
18:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but 1.2 is only half a day old ;)
18:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the fun thing with siedler is, with the huge monitor sizes nowadays, even the svga mode causes the same supersize-pixel retro feeling ;)
18:59:22 <Belugas> KDE dos not look like such a nice country after all... it just closed connectivity of poor smatz...
19:00:45 <Alberth> Linux boxes mimic Win* machines too much, asking for a reboot after upgrading the software :p
19:01:48 <frosch123> SmatZ: was the upgrade worth it? (so i might do it tomorrow)
19:02:17 <SmatZ> I did it once, then switched back to 3.5 after few minutes
19:02:59 <Alberth> SmatZ: don't worry, it doesn't get one :)
19:03:36 <SmatZ> how can I switch it to old, FASTER one
19:04:09 <frosch123> hehe, i have only a speedbutton for konsole in the taskbar
19:04:13 <SmatZ> when I am seaching for an application and I don't know in which category it is, each try costs me two clicks...
19:04:28 <Alberth> there is a search button :p
19:04:48 <Alberth> I find the favorites quite nice, I hardly ever need to go beyond that list
19:05:12 <SmatZ> the list is empty now though :)
19:10:19 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17750 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Financial expenses panel handles different font size, replaced magic numbers by constants.
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20:50:53 <glx> reminds me the "love" rule we used to have in openttd makefile :)
20:50:53 <andythenorth> wintertime in the uk
20:50:59 <andythenorth> winter time is openttd time
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20:55:37 <frosch123> life can be so easy: i join when pikka leaves, i leave when nite_owl joins
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continue to next day ⏵
