IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-09-25
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06:22:59 <YoG_> Hi, I'm trying to compile (natively) arm version of cargodest, when the compilation process reach "routing.cpp" the memory usage jumps to 90%, the device starts to swap like crazy and nothing happens - I waited about an hour and a half, it didn't finish compiling it... can anyone point me in the right direction?
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07:33:07 <Rubidium> YoG_: not really, it uses lots of memory on other systems too. But it kept swapping like crazy? Then at least it was doing something :)
07:33:30 <Rubidium> you might want to try another version of your compiler though
07:33:45 <Rubidium> or another version of boost
07:34:11 <YoG_> Rubidium: :-) patiance is a virtue, I tried it again today and eventually it resumed...
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09:32:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17633 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3233]: [NewGRF] Crash when trying to build an industry that has no industry layout defined.
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13:27:41 <welshdragon> crakinshot: how's things?
13:30:27 <crakinshot> not bad... someone asked for train composition in depo's so I'm having a look into it
13:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid you're picking on too many projects at once
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13:33:35 <crakinshot> hehe, yeah I also need a GRF template to add on a new sound so I can have the "chidy-chik" sound when trains move over a tile
13:34:56 <crakinshot> well that extended signals is pretty much done. But without anything to use them, no point in cleaning it up yet.
13:35:28 <crakinshot> and all my other ideas are ultimately coming down to having to use LR PBS. :/
13:35:43 <crakinshot> so those will have to wait
13:35:59 <crakinshot> I've got platform definitions, but was looking at the ordering system
13:36:27 <crakinshot> while I'm here might as well add on depo wagon order as well I guess
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13:39:01 <welshdragon> crakinshot: can you eventually make a build with all your patches in>
13:39:19 <Ammler> what't LR PBS? (long reserve?)
13:41:42 <crakinshot> yeah, basically the multi-aspect signals and realistic deceleration will need long reserve PBS
13:43:11 <Ammler> but there are some patches with that, aren't there?
13:43:57 <crakinshot> yeah, but its whether it'll be used in the trunk. I'm not entirely sure I like LR PBS yet, it adds on 2 signal types
13:44:52 <Ammler> well, those 2 patches I know, fail if there are 2 trains in row of the lr line
13:47:43 <Ammler> why don't you not continue there, instead of wait until someone will finish those patches?
13:48:28 <crakinshot> maybe, to be honest I'm letting all the ideas sort themselves in my head
13:48:40 <crakinshot> it'll get back to me in a few days
13:49:33 <crakinshot> I'm probably leaning toward doing it myself and adding on reserve extentions
13:49:43 <crakinshot> just for my signal type
13:50:39 <crakinshot> I don't know, need to set a clear objective and choose a start which will allow doing other things
13:50:44 <crakinshot> so its not just a hack
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14:01:27 <crakinshot> See what I'm thinking if you have a MAS signal, which basically tries to reserve 3 segments ahead. if it can't it sets a lower warning on the signal and the train moves more slowly.
14:02:19 <crakinshot> then on some signals you don't want them to allow longer reservations, so you'd make it SignalEx and set a flag to stop that
14:02:36 <crakinshot> rather than have a completely different signal type
14:03:54 <crakinshot> the ratational for using the extended signal pool item is that the usual place you want to limit long reservations is a junction home signal
14:04:34 <crakinshot> and those are the signals you'd most likely want to use other extensions on (programmable signals)
14:04:57 <crakinshot> so its coming together slowly
14:20:08 <crakinshot> Then with yapf pathfinder, when it creates the general path to take, it checks to see the segment is allowed to be extended further and stores that in the cache
14:20:36 <crakinshot> I really need to take a long look at yapf
14:21:52 <crakinshot> an idea that comes to mind is how the cache is maintained. My understanding is it finds a path then caches it, if that path is no longer valid is ditches the path and tries to make a completely new one
14:22:48 <crakinshot> rather than ditch it completely you try to find a new path, but once you come back to the originally cached path you stop.
14:23:16 <crakinshot> but I don't know if this is the way its done already. hehe
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15:49:17 <KingJ> CargoDist is what you want now
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15:51:07 <Belugas> isn't it CargoDust now?
15:51:28 <Belugas> or are we just at CargoDost ?
15:52:32 <Alberth> CargoD[a-z]st to be at the safe side
15:54:27 <YoG_> why was cargodust been abandoned?
15:54:52 <welshdragon> YoG_: as it was unstable
16:02:58 <YoG_> is the yellow one the latest?
16:03:11 <TrueBrain> no, for that you need the purple
16:03:15 * TrueBrain goes sit under a rock now :)
16:06:03 * Alberth brings cookies and a drink to TrueBrain
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17:45:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17634 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 6 changes by Gavin
17:45:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 8 changes by jpx_
17:45:34 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
17:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: romanian - 49 changes by kkmic
17:45:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 51 changes by Madvin
18:15:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17635 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the chat gui nested
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19:36:21 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17636 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the difficulty setting window nested
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19:43:09 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17637 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move the game difficulty window's window/widget description below the window class
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20:38:16 <andythenorth> anyone got a clue which version of OpenTTD for Windows I should try with Crossover Mac?
20:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what does "ta" mean anyway?
20:40:21 <andythenorth> wondered if you'd ask that.
20:40:23 <Prof_Frink> It's short for "ta muchly"
20:40:29 <andythenorth> just means thanks, in (northern) English
20:40:39 <andythenorth> (British) English
20:42:19 <planetmaker> you'll surely loose a lot performance, andythenorth
20:42:38 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I need to know if it's an option
20:43:18 <planetmaker> I just recall when I was (still) making the grfs using win under parallels desktop
20:43:38 <YoG_> Hi, I've compiled OpenTTD with cargodist, but it seems that it doesn't work, all I get is "x passengers via any station" "x passengers to any station", do I have to switch something on?
20:43:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if there's no Mac maintainer...what choices are there?
20:44:06 <planetmaker> compile yourself on mac?
20:44:16 <andythenorth> ....one day compiling myself is going to break due to some library issue I don't understand
20:44:26 <Belugas> [16:40] <Nite_Owl> tanks <-- war pig
20:44:38 <andythenorth> if current devs can't sanely maintain a mac port, I have zero chance
20:44:40 <planetmaker> If it works now, chances are that it continues to work
20:45:05 <planetmaker> library dependencies only change very slowly.
20:45:21 <Nite_Owl> War Pig was a great song
20:45:28 <planetmaker> andythenorth: your advantage though is: you have a mac. None of the devs has.
20:45:41 <planetmaker> it's a huge advantage if it comes to make adjustments in order to make it work
20:46:26 <Nite_Owl> Ozzie before he bit the bat
20:47:28 <Belugas> not an easy one, but a fun one
20:47:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: Macs I can supply. Got loads.
20:47:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then please do!
20:47:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: also got an xserve?
20:48:14 <planetmaker> e.g. a mac server 24/7?
20:48:27 <Nite_Owl> Actually I think it was plural - War Pigs
20:48:37 <planetmaker> where there'd be a free account?
20:48:46 <andythenorth> Belugas: Beer I am drinking. I have 3 spare. But I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic no?
20:48:49 <Prof_Frink> Nite_Owl: That's what the id3 says here.
20:48:57 <andythenorth> Unless you have tanks and a wetsuit and are prepared to swim
20:48:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd say no.
20:49:03 <Nite_Owl> Either way a great song on a great album
20:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd say you're on the right side, but you people have trouble with right and not right anyway... :p
20:49:55 <Nite_Owl> Iron Man was on that album too
20:50:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: why is Xserve needed? I missed that part in the thread
20:50:09 <Belugas> almost all the big hits
20:50:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: so... could you supply a dev with a (personal) mac?
20:50:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yup np
20:50:40 <planetmaker> concerning xserve: for the compile farm in order to build the nightlies
20:51:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then please do supply that. Dunno whom of them would want it, though :-)
20:51:20 <andythenorth> probably a G4 mac mini, G5 imac, G4 emac. intel is harder (we use those)
20:51:30 <andythenorth> but there might be an intel machine spare somewhere
20:51:56 <planetmaker> well... tests the PPC part and endian things :-)
20:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but PPC and endian are not the main problems
20:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problems are 10.5 and 10.6 support
20:54:34 <planetmaker> but 10.5 runs also on PPC.
20:55:28 <planetmaker> but for the sake of simplicity 10.6 might be the choice, if given
20:56:36 <planetmaker> if something has to be sacrificed it might rather be ppc and 10.3 support than 10.5+
20:58:32 <andythenorth> ooh...OpenTTD Win has an installer :P
21:00:14 <Rubidium> andythenorth: you don't need to use the installer ;)
21:00:29 <andythenorth> Rubidium: why not?
21:01:15 <Rubidium> the same reason you don't need an installer for OSX
21:02:01 <welshdragon> Regarding OpenTTD and 10.6, until a developer can be found, recommend using VMWare Fusion, and running a WInXP VM
21:02:01 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I think you're overlooking that I have *no* idea where to put an app for Windows (including the crazy Crossover filesystem)
21:02:16 <andythenorth> welshdragon: means I have to pay the windows tax
21:02:35 <andythenorth> why not get a linux vm in that case?
21:02:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: OpenTTD does not need installation. On any system
21:03:13 <welshdragon> but isn't getting Linux to run on Macs generally more difficult, andythenorth?
21:03:39 <welshdragon> I've not tried it
21:03:49 <andythenorth> pretty trivial in my experience. Download a packaged vm from vmware, run
21:03:55 <andythenorth> Then get utterly confused by Linux
21:04:24 <welshdragon> as there is no description of VMWare on the ubuntu wiki
21:05:45 <planetmaker> reason might be that it's a proprietary programme...
21:06:08 <planetmaker> is not vmware ;-)
21:07:07 <Prof_Frink> *buntu works fine in it though.
21:07:41 <andythenorth> Crossover can't find sample.cat - cluestick (I'm off to the wiki, but you guys might know the answer faster)
21:08:11 <Rubidium> where did you put sample.cat? in the data directory?
21:08:33 <andythenorth> Rubidium: yes, in data, that's why I'm confused
21:08:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: if it's simulating windows, it might look in c:\own files\...
21:08:57 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17638 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3235]: Crash when trying to build an industry that has no industry layout defined; yes, it's very similar to r17633 because one case was forgotten.
21:09:26 <andythenorth> it didn't like my alias to my mac 'data' dir
21:09:34 <andythenorth> I'm now looking at the start screen
21:10:00 <andythenorth> newgrfs are there
21:10:09 <andythenorth> default TTD graphics are missing - OpenGFX only
21:10:34 <andythenorth> drag-resize window didn't cause any fail to happen
21:10:49 <andythenorth> can't load a mac save game file
21:11:03 <Rubidium> probably a permissions issue
21:11:09 <andythenorth> oops nvm save game issue, made with a recent nightly
21:11:15 <andythenorth> I'm trying 0.7.2
21:12:59 <YoG_> Hi, I've compiled OpenTTD with cargodist, but it seems that it doesn't work, all I get is "x passengers via any station" "x passengers to any station", do I have to switch something on?
21:13:04 <andythenorth> hmm panning the viewport isn't working as expected
21:13:16 <andythenorth> how do you normally pan the viewport in windows?
21:13:19 <welshdragon> YoG_: check under advanced settings
21:13:33 <welshdragon> andythenorth: with arrow keys :P
21:14:24 <YoG_> welshdragon: thanks, under "Link graph" passengers are set to "symmetric", is there anything else I should do?
21:15:56 <Belugas> runnning fucking rght now to fucking home
21:19:27 <andythenorth> loading a save game works on Crossover
21:21:08 <andythenorth> hmm. So Crossover looks promising. But I want original graphics back! Much as I love OpenGFX...
21:21:28 <andythenorth> the TTD original files are in /data
21:21:29 <planetmaker> bye Belugas, hello Yexo
21:22:04 <Yexo> andythenorth: and the correct obg file?
21:22:37 <Yexo> YoG_: you might have more success on the forum in the cargodist topic
21:23:10 <andythenorth> Yexo: which obg file do I need?
21:23:36 <Yexo> original_win / original_dos I think
21:23:40 <planetmaker> Yexo: for the original data?
21:23:52 <planetmaker> interesting. Never seen them :-)
21:24:06 <YoG_> Yexo: Thanks, I'll try there, just thought I'll get a quicker answer here
21:24:20 <Nite_Owl> opening screen selection
21:24:27 <Yexo> mostly you get a faster answer here, but when you're using a patch it can be tricky
21:25:06 <andythenorth> Yexo: I've never had an obg file for Mac OpenTTD...unless I've forgotten it
21:25:29 <Yexo> andythenorth: you most certainly have, or you woudn't have the graphics
21:25:38 <andythenorth> yup, I've forgotten it
21:25:39 <Yexo> but it coudl be in the data directory in your installation directory?
21:25:59 <Rubidium> (which is quite well hidden for OSX)
21:26:57 <andythenorth> I have lots of obg files, but they are all in my svn checkout of openttd, not in my path for the actual mac app
21:28:20 <andythenorth> now I need openttdw.grf :|
21:28:28 <andythenorth> also in my svn checkout :)
21:28:38 <Yexo> and also installed somewhere
21:28:38 <Rubidium> that is *also* in the windows install zip
21:28:55 <andythenorth> oh, bye bye Crossover :( it quite
21:28:58 <Rubidium> and *also* in the OSX bundle you download from the website
21:29:24 <planetmaker> try paralles :-P with a real win install
21:29:27 <andythenorth> ok they'll be in the package then :)
21:29:44 <planetmaker> and talk Rubidium into wanting your mac ;-)
21:30:28 <Rubidium> sorry, but I was forbidden from using Macs ~10 years ago
21:30:34 <andythenorth> "this is the data dir you are looking for"
21:30:34 <andythenorth> yay, original graphics, improved start screen
21:30:55 <planetmaker> haha @ Rubidium ;-)
21:31:06 <andythenorth> And I've found how to mouse-scroll, ahem, it's an advanced option (embarassed)
21:31:26 <Rubidium> could be that (randomly-ish) OpenGFX is prefered to the original graphics in a clean install (because it finds it earlier or so)
21:31:37 <andythenorth> Right, smells like OpenTTD, looks like OpenTTD...
21:31:49 <andythenorth> only differences to regular mac openttd are:
21:31:54 <andythenorth> 1. x11 icon in the menu bar
21:32:02 <andythenorth> 2. crazy file system in save / load
21:32:32 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'm serious :) I crashed a macbook so thoroughly that the only way to reset it was removing the battery and power connector. No other tricks to restart, like the on/off button etc worked
21:32:47 <andythenorth> Oh, and I have no idea how I'd patch then compile for win on a mac, but that's a problem for later
21:36:06 <andythenorth> not noticeably slow via Crossover
21:36:40 <andythenorth> arrrgghhh but the mouse-scroll is inverted :(
21:36:43 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sounds interesting ;-)
21:37:08 <andythenorth> fixed mouse scroll :D
21:37:52 <planetmaker> but you might do with "yours" then whatever you see fit :-P
21:39:55 <andythenorth> Crossover looks like a solution for mac users
21:40:01 <andythenorth> which cheers me up
21:40:14 <Rubidium> no, it's no solution
21:40:45 <andythenorth> Well I'd temporarily lost interest in my newgrf projects. seemed no point continuing. Crossover makes it worthwhile again...
21:40:54 <Rubidium> andythenorth: if you select French, does the font change?
21:41:40 <andythenorth> Rubidium: no, I get an error: FreeType reported error 0x1
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21:42:07 <andythenorth> Actually several errors. Clicking ok on the dialogs made them go away...
21:42:28 <andythenorth> Font did change though
21:42:40 <andythenorth> Let me try the full error
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21:43:06 <Rubidium> nah, probably some API that crossover still misses
21:43:25 <andythenorth> Unable to use Arial for small font. FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
21:43:43 <andythenorth> same for medium + large
21:43:46 <Rubidium> not very odd because it's something font related which Apple doesn't seem to have implemented in a manner that is easily useful for crossover/wine
21:44:20 <Rubidium> so crossover is useless for all languages that have non-standard-gfx characters
21:45:00 <planetmaker> that probably depends upon which language OSX is installed in.
21:45:46 <planetmaker> like, I can only type chinese, if I actually activate the chinese input methods
21:46:35 <planetmaker> but it works :-P - no idea what I typed, though ;-)
21:47:24 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you're doing that in crossover?
21:47:55 <Rubidium> and normal OSX did autodetect a proper font?
21:48:02 <planetmaker> Nor did I claim to do so. My point was: crossover might find it easier, if this was, though, activated in OSX.
21:48:25 <planetmaker> And no, my OSX doesn't come up with a good font for chinese
21:48:32 <Rubidium> (that I already knew cause it isn't implemented)
21:48:54 <planetmaker> but it's not principle problem to type chinese on native mac
21:49:02 <planetmaker> I just switch the input method and type away
21:49:11 <Rubidium> Windows does come with a font, but in crossover/wine it apparantly doesn't really work
21:49:29 <planetmaker> that should work natively since mac 10.3 latest
21:51:21 <planetmaker> maybe I should dig again into the fonts now I learnt a bit more about the APIs...
21:51:32 <Rubidium> by the way, was I even talking about input?
21:51:48 <Rubidium> (just trying to understand why you came up with that topic)
21:52:16 <planetmaker> nope. But obviously for chinese characters it needs a different font than for these latin ones.
21:52:26 <planetmaker> so there's automatically some choice made
21:54:20 <planetmaker> so basically I agree: it's crossover failing there probably
22:04:20 <Rubidium> they could be, but not by me
22:04:36 <planetmaker> so you actively want to have it decay?
22:05:15 <Rubidium> no, I've had it with stab-in-the-black fixes that some people report success for that then break for much more people
22:06:23 <Rubidium> as such I won't commit stuff I can't test/haven't tested anymore
22:07:23 <Rubidium> 'cause I can't verify whether it makes it actually better or just accidentally fixes it for a single person
22:07:46 <Rubidium> if someone else wants to burn his fingers on it, that's fine by me
22:09:20 <planetmaker> e.g. 3205 is not mac specific. It's endian specific
22:09:25 * Rubidium just committed too much OSX related stuff over time that broke more than it actually fixes because he couldn't test it
22:10:03 <planetmaker> blame me if it brakes
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22:36:17 <Nite_Owl> feeding time - later all
22:36:28 <Rubidium> good luck making owl balls :)
22:54:49 <andythenorth> right I've defeated the css. Today was code soup: python, jQuery, css, html, tal. Time for bed
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