IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-09-05
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00:01:00 <nicfer> and the inflation there is pretty pretty high
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00:29:58 <PeterT> is there a reason why passworded companies aren't passworded at the entry screen, but they are in-game?
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01:12:24 <nicfer> little suggestion, would be worth adding a setting for choosing amount of primary and secondary industries separately?
01:16:55 <PeterT> when would that be used?
01:17:50 <PeterT> <PeterT> when would that be used?
01:18:24 <PeterT> if you know C++ coding, write a patch for it. since your here asking, you probably dont.
01:18:33 <PeterT> try asking tommorow when more developers are up
01:18:41 <PeterT> OpenTTD channels run on european time
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01:35:10 <Belugas> unfortunately, yes, as most of the guys
01:35:27 <Belugas> bloody european time :(
01:36:22 <Belugas> nicfer, as you already know, writing a grf can do exactly that
01:36:30 <Belugas> you don't really need a setting for that
01:36:55 <Belugas> we'll just be adding a double control and then we'll battle over the grf for the control of the creations...
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01:37:05 <Belugas> fun time under the sun and the moon
01:37:33 <nicfer> and for example, can a newgrf modify another newgrf's setting?
01:38:52 <Belugas> if you are asking if a grf can modify a industry setting that has been already modified by another grf, that is not possible, due to the way the industries are loaded and installed in the system
01:43:43 <nicfer> oh, because I was using FIRS
01:45:00 <nicfer> so, I'll have to choice, FIRS or custom number of secondary industries
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08:01:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17421 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17418): Don't output debug information in signs list.
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09:17:09 * Yexo has a fully functional newgrf airport :)
09:19:05 <Rubidium> Yexo: thought of a way how an industry can define an airport? (as per oil rigs)
09:24:38 <Yexo> s/png/grf/ for the grf and s/png/nfo/ for the code
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09:35:57 <Grelouk> guys, what's the option to use CTRL + click to build stations ?
09:36:55 <Alberth> huh? just hold CTRL while you click to build a station
09:37:22 <Yexo> the setting is called "distant join"
09:43:54 <Terkhen> Yexo: I compiled NewGRF airports to see the mini airport at work... it's incredible :D
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10:53:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17422 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove magic constants and compute vertical minimal size of the sign list window.
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11:27:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17423 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3174]: Show '- None -' with empty town or industry list, and use that text in the size computation as well.
11:33:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17424 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: Unify 'list is empty' strings of the windows to '- None -'.
11:36:15 <TrueBrain> go Alberth, go Alberth
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11:43:01 * Alberth must first invent new changes :(
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13:24:16 <Rubidium> huh, the new K3 member is German?
13:25:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the use of LOL/lol has been superceded by ...
13:26:49 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what suprises me most, is that you follow such news
13:26:54 <TrueBrain> or rather: scares me to dead
13:27:10 <Rubidium> I thought 'blub' was a mention to K3
13:27:23 <TrueBrain> oh, lol, no, it was not
13:27:29 <TrueBrain> I said that before they sang about it
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13:42:34 <Luukland> When I am the server owner, how can I join every company in my game?
13:42:43 <Luukland> (even when they have set a pass) :P
13:42:52 <TrueBrain> you can only be in one company at the time, sorry
13:43:09 <Luukland> of course, but I mean when I want to join a passworded company
13:43:14 <Luukland> and I am server owner
13:43:26 <TrueBrain> remove the password and join :)
13:43:37 <Luukland> Ah how to remove the password? :D
13:43:53 <TrueBrain> save the game and load it? Maybe there is a consoel command for it too :p
13:44:07 <Luukland> Hmmm reset_password ID maybe :p
13:44:19 <Rubidium> there's also a command to force-move someone
13:44:26 <Rubidium> so join as spectator and use that
13:44:35 <Luukland> Ok I am now in my server a spectator :p
13:44:51 <Luukland> I have tried "rcon pass "join 1""
13:44:58 <Luukland> But it said password protected
13:45:54 <TrueBrain> of course; Rubidium suggested it :)
13:46:37 <Luukland> Now I can controll my server better ^^
13:46:42 <Luukland> (its top of the list :P)
13:46:53 <Luukland> Thx for your help Rubidium and TrueBrain :)
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13:53:43 <voker57> i've downloaded ECS pack, which added Fish industries, but I can see no vehicle that can carry Fish... Any ideas?
13:55:19 <frosch123> install a vehicle "pack" that can
13:55:38 <voker57> which pack has those?
13:55:51 <voker57> i've installed all "ECS" packs
13:56:24 <frosch123> which vehicle sets are you using currently?
13:58:08 <frosch123> temperate oil wells won't work with ecs
13:58:34 <frosch123> so basically you have not loaded any vehicle newgrfs
13:58:44 <frosch123> then install "old wagons - new cargos"
13:58:56 <frosch123> iirc it is in the ingame download
14:04:16 <voker57> seems to work, thank you
14:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, these things derail all over the place :(
14:08:43 <voker57> just showed "refittable to all but..." but there's no Fish still
14:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried refitting?
14:09:23 <voker57> i tried on Cargo ships
14:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i don't know if this covers ships at all
14:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> did you try wagons?
14:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you.
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14:18:32 <voker57> looks like there's just no transport for fish
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14:21:03 <voker57> is there any addons with ships?
14:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> thousands of people have successfully transported fish somehow...
14:22:39 <frosch123> well, refridgerated cargo seems to be most troublesome to transport
14:22:43 <voker57> i tried 'food' but apparently fish isn't food
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14:28:19 <voker57> ok i've done something and now i can carry fish with trains
14:28:41 <voker57> thoght the idea of delivering fish from ships by tains seems weird to me
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14:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ship development was neglected for quite some time
14:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try the "newships" set, and the matching "newships-ecs-extension"
14:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> though they are not on the content service
14:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if the "2cc ships" set is ready yet
14:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but the "FISH" set certainly isn't
14:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> grr... i hate broken plastic pieces, they are impossible to repair
14:42:22 <frosch123> what did you do to your keyboard :o
14:42:45 <TrueBrain> you should not recycle condoms
14:47:43 <voker57> ok, New Ships does it
14:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> since when are condoms made of plastic?
14:56:03 <Pikka> since last week! or possibly not.
15:00:27 <TrueBrain> he shoots, he scores
15:06:38 <frosch123> what's the value of 10kg wood briquettes?
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15:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> what the heck do you do with 10kg wood?
15:10:33 <frosch123> my regional electricity supplier offered me today to invest into their power plant for an interest rate of about 3% and 10kg wood (which is some product of the plant) per 1000€ investment.
15:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be more than 5€ or something...
15:11:50 <frosch123> they are serious about that :)
15:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but really... burning 10kg wood is not going to last very long...
15:14:27 <frosch123> at least wood briquette
15:14:46 <TrueBrain> I am suprised nobody requested OpenTTD to push the commits to twitter :p
15:15:27 <frosch123> isn't twitter famous for reporting stuff before the official news?
15:15:43 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and what is the rho of wood?
15:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: lmao ;)
15:16:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ghehe :) If it is faster than CIA (which it undoubtly is) that even holds ;)
15:16:23 <TrueBrain> I can get some tea and return, before CIA reports a commit :p
15:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i don't know, apparently, wood is sold by volume (as is oil, fuel, etc.)
15:20:13 <frosch123> 275€ per 1000kg, so basically 0.275% rate
15:20:29 <Pikka> andythenorth: great minds think alike, I was just working on something similar :o
15:20:50 <frosch123> then they actually reach 3%, but i cannot burn wood here
15:20:54 <voker57> hmm now Fishing Grounds don't grow, just produce like 6 units of fish per month and don't offload it
15:21:14 <voker57> i deliver lots of passengers for them, looks like they don't need anything else
15:21:36 <frosch123> [17:22] <voker57> i deliver lots of passengers for them, looks like they don't need anything else <- feeding the fish with passengers :o
15:21:54 <voker57> looks like those passengers just fish for fun
15:22:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^^ "But the FISH set isn't"....I'm working on costs, there'll be a basic release of FISH soon
15:22:29 <andythenorth> ...featuring a limited range of fully finished graphics. I'll comment out the rest
15:23:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: what do you think of those costs?
15:24:41 <frosch123> btw. andythenorth: if you are not heading for cb 36 capacity, an actionD computing "param 2 = param 1 * (default capacity)" followed by an action6 to store the capacity in the following aciton 0 should be enough
15:25:36 <frosch123> well, and a actionD at the beginning to set a default value for param 1
15:25:51 <Pikka> I don't know, andy... I find it hard to visualise the costs in pounds.. I just use arbitrary numbers and then weight them to appropriate values when testing.
15:28:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks. I might need a CB36 solution, but not sure yet
15:37:18 <frosch123> that copies param 2 to param 0
15:39:04 <frosch123> -1 * -1 0D 00 80 FF 00 \d 2 <- that would initialise param 0 with a default of 2, when the user did not supply one
15:39:55 <frosch123> -1 * -1 0D 01 \Du* 00 FF \d 10000 <- that computes param1 = param0 * 10000
15:40:35 <frosch123> then you can write param1 into the capacity action0 using action6
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15:41:17 <frosch123> and get a default capacity of 2*10000 which can be halfed by setting param0 to 1 or multiplied by 10 by setting param0 to 20
15:41:36 <frosch123> and get a bugreport if someone sets param0 to 0 :p
15:43:02 <frosch123> [17:38] <frosch123> that copies param 2 to param 0 <- well it was param1, but no constant 2 :)
15:48:19 <Pikka> andythenorth: you haz a pm
15:48:45 <andythenorth> I also haz a renum fail with the action D: invalid character " ".
15:49:10 <andythenorth> that would be action D but the emoticon kicked in
15:51:30 <frosch123> if you copied that one from me, sometimes i accidently type nbsp
15:52:35 <Pikka> oops, that should be "the highlighted "02"" @ pm.
15:54:29 <andythenorth> frosch123: yep probably the nbsp, retyping it cleared that up.
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15:55:54 <andythenorth> Pikka: interesting costs.
15:56:50 <Pikka> they're fairly quickly made up... ^^;
15:57:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: similar approach to mine, but more detail. My 'fixed run cost' is based on number of crew and a fudge factor
15:57:58 <andythenorth> nfo looks useful, but I am currently having nfo brain fail
15:58:15 <andythenorth> Pikka: fancy coming FISHing?
15:59:41 <PeterT> andythenorth, which is the newest version?
16:01:03 <andythenorth> PeterT: whatever the forum thread says...find the most recent post mentioning a grf, or Ammler might stick the link to nightly builds here
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16:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone ever think about a concept to make vehicle names depend on current date? (afair that is currently not possible)
16:29:35 <frosch123> anything particularry in mind with that?
16:29:55 <frosch123> i cannot think about anything sane :)
16:31:36 <DorpsGek> PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 3 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <yorick> also, don't listen to me
16:31:55 <DorpsGek> PeterT: I have not seen mega.
16:32:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what do you have in mind? I've done model names based on date.
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16:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123, andythenorth: for example the DB, which changed the naming scheme of the vehicles in the 1960's (e.g. "E 94" to "194")
16:36:54 <frosch123> ah, i see and the very old before br stuff
16:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, Länderbahn vs. Reichsbahn
16:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause> when i asked MB about this, he said that was not possible
16:38:28 <frosch123> well, is is possible if you save and reload the game inbetween :p
16:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not an optimal solution :p
16:39:08 <andythenorth> how does vehicle cost factor work? It looks like crazy talk to me
16:39:22 <andythenorth> 01 is 3.124, but 10 is 50000.00
16:39:40 <andythenorth> but FF is only 796.874
16:39:55 <andythenorth> someone please tell me I've misunderstood the decimal...
16:39:59 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 3124.99607843
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16:40:03 <frosch123> what's the problem?
16:40:27 <andythenorth> think it's a problem with national conventions about decimals / comma thousands
16:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> misinterpretation of "." probably ;)
16:40:31 <frosch123> ah, yes "." is a thousand separator here :p
16:40:49 <frosch123> " " is the only acceptable thousands-separator for me
16:41:11 <andythenorth> that's good because I would have need a word for cost factor and I only get a byte
16:41:12 <Ammler> TTRS does also change the roads with this "ugly" way.
16:41:38 <Ammler> on a MP server you have the old roads after 2000, still.
16:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, and that's why it would not be acceptible
16:42:26 <Ammler> would it need so much more cpu, that it is done that way?
16:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so, back to my original question: what would be necessary to get a fully dynamic way of assigning names to models?
16:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like a name callback or so
16:43:19 <frosch123> Ammler: it's the only way to it with the available newgrf specs :)
16:44:01 <Ammler> but you could run the Action 7/9 once per year or something
16:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be significantly more problematic than any graphics callback
16:44:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there is already a callback for the details of industries and vehicles and for house tiles
16:44:46 <frosch123> Ammler: no, action7/9 is only on load, and that will never change :)
16:45:25 <Ammler> or the function, which is runned, while loading or grf change.
16:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it would need varaction 2 support for rail- and roadtypes
16:46:15 <zachanima> hrm. It seems like Windows 7 is not the ideal compile environment
16:46:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: for engine names, just code it :p
16:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so, how can this be done?
16:46:35 <Ammler> frosch123: that is because of the specs or technical issues?
16:48:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: grep for string_id, and replace every occurence with a new method of Engine
16:48:37 <Ammler> hmm, maybe we should just make autopilot to reload the game from time to time.
16:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: afaik that wouldn't even work, because it was a desync hazard when the action 7/9 were treated differently at any point during the game
16:48:43 <frosch123> then copy the needed stuff from GetTileDesc_Town and apply it to engines
16:49:31 <andythenorth> default ship purchase costs are lower than train purchase costs by a factor of 6.15....any way to change the cost base?
16:49:40 <andythenorth> without screwing with other grfs...
16:49:53 <frosch123> _cur_year = _settings_game.game_creation.starting_year; <- Ammler: save/load won't work in multiplayer either
16:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you'll screw with other ship grfs
16:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no way around that, except for (finally) extending the cost variable size
16:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> afair that was planned for grf version 8
16:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> or not possible at all, don't know
16:51:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: use action0 feature 08 property 08
16:51:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks, reading the docs now
16:51:56 <frosch123> will apply to all ships for now, but will likely become grf-local at some point
16:52:12 <andythenorth> okey dokey. There's not exactly an armada of ship sets right now
16:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's the same problem for train sets and rv sets
16:54:46 <Ammler> [18:52] <frosch123> will apply to all ships for now, but will likely become grf-local at some point <-- sure, petern and belugas were always against.
16:55:07 <Ammler> that would be quite cool :-)
16:55:28 <frosch123> Ammler: it's always the "how" that matters
16:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... google.de has a different icon than google.com
16:58:01 <frosch123> is there some ufo day today?
16:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea, if you click it, it only comes up with articles about "wtf is going on with the google image?"
16:58:37 <frosch123> oh, it's more like a joke
16:59:09 <frosch123> exactly, "wtf" is kind of equivalent to "ufo" :)
17:01:36 <_ln> was bedeutet "Rätselhaftes"?
17:01:42 <frosch123> the first result says zero-wing-day :)
17:03:49 <andythenorth> at least I can draw...
17:04:49 <TrueBrain> orudge: don't you just love what reddog barks all the time? :) I really can't make sense of this guy ..
17:05:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: put the 13 where the 00 is
17:06:31 * orudge is working on a single sign-on system for tt-forums, by the way
17:06:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i only encountered one post of him, is that because you delete all :p
17:06:37 <orudge> albeit not one that is compatible with OpenTTD I'm afraid :p
17:06:59 <orudge> although technically I suppose you could write some sort of wrapper that exposes an LDAP interface if you really wanted ;)
17:07:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I delete what now?
17:07:35 <TrueBrain> orudge: too bad you do that on your own; would have been nice if we could have combined tt-forums with openttd
17:07:58 <orudge> integrating LDAP properly with the forums would involve rather a lot more effort it seems
17:08:02 <orudge> phpBB has basic LDAP support
17:08:04 <orudge> but it's not very good
17:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: i'd rather have a useful ignore feature
17:08:32 <orudge> it would of course be quite possible to integrate this new system with openttd, but then you'd have to redo all your stuff, so I can understand you might not want to do that ;)
17:09:01 <TrueBrain> orudge: well, the validation-stuff against phpBB plainly suck :)
17:10:26 <TrueBrain> I wonder how LDAP support can be bad btw :) It only validates a username + password :p
17:10:36 <orudge> the issue is with things like registering accounts on the forums
17:10:45 <orudge> phpBB apparently just registers an account anyway in its own database
17:10:56 <TrueBrain> FlySpray _did_ that too :p hehe :)
17:10:58 <orudge> so one would need to work around that
17:11:01 <TrueBrain> such fixes are relative easy ;)
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17:11:31 <orudge> generally speaking, I prefer not to modify phpBB where I can avoid it, if only because it is then a pain when upgrading
17:11:48 <orudge> this system isn't finalised
17:11:53 <TrueBrain> for mediawiki I just disabled registring, and made the link point to the account signup :)
17:11:55 <orudge> I'm experimenting at the moment mainly
17:12:18 <orudge> well, that could be something I could do the forums too
17:13:55 <TrueBrain> either way, what do you use for SSO?
17:15:14 <TrueBrain> (if you really mean with SSO that if you signon to the forums, you are signed on to all the systems using the SSO :p)
17:15:32 <TrueBrain> SSO and CAS (Centralized Authorization System) are 2 confusing terms I noticed for a lot of people ;)
17:15:34 <orudge> it's SSO for all the third-party sites, but not actually the forums, at the moment :P
17:15:37 <orudge> Effectively, it's a relatively simple RPC system whereby the user details are authenticated over an HTTPS link, a web service if you like to call it that
17:16:01 <TrueBrain> via what? A cookie doesn't survive cross-domain?
17:17:06 <orudge> well, the cookie is stored on a tt-forums subdomain, and when beginning a session on the third-party site, it is redirected to the login.tt-forums.net which checks the cookie, updates the internal session, and redirects back.
17:17:25 <orudge> the redirect can be done away with, but then it's just shared authentication, and not SSO ;)
17:17:30 <TrueBrain> what I do miss in SSO world, is a good standard :(
17:17:47 <TrueBrain> most software don't have off-stock solutions for SSO
17:17:49 <orudge> there's always Microsoft Passport ;)
17:17:58 <TrueBrain> we were talking about a STANDARD!
17:18:33 <PeterT> does OpenTTD always crash when disabling multiple newgrf engine sets, in-game?
17:19:55 <TrueBrain> orudge: my problem is this for flyspray for example: flyspray needs a very .. well .. weird combination of cookies set .. this means the SSO needs to know about this somehow in order to set those :(
17:20:36 <orudge> my system is mainly intended for third-party web sites that have been specifically designed with this in mind (eg, the Repository, or Xeryus's new site, or GRFCrawler)
17:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> we were talking about a STANDARD! <- hey, microsoft does have standards!
17:20:53 <orudge> things like mediawiki (for the rarely-used tt-forums wiki) I'll probably look into
17:20:56 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: my ass
17:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't stick to its own standards, though :p
17:21:09 <TrueBrain> mediawiki has a simpler set of cookies, so I guess the SSO can set that more easy
17:21:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a tt-forums wiki?
17:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> gnarf... kate -u always picks the wrong kate...
17:24:21 <TrueBrain> orudge: the other solution I have found for flyspray in this example, is to let the SSO return a cookie a new piece of code inside FS knows, and then runs the normal authentication which always results in 'true'
17:24:42 <TrueBrain> this only is very dangerous, as a user can just set that cookie 'returned' from the SSO, and thereby test many accounts
17:24:53 <TrueBrain> which means you need to add a 'attempt' counter on the FS side ...
17:27:08 <orudge> it's mainly used for meet organisation these days :p
17:29:08 <frosch123> [19:25] <Eddi|zuHause> gnarf... kate -u always picks the wrong kate... <- use -p
17:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but that involves looking up the pid first ;)
17:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i thought i had only one kate open, but that was apparently not true, and i spent time searching where it now actually opened the file :p
17:30:38 <TrueBrain> euh .. how un-ordered can your desktop possibly be?
17:31:08 <frosch123> yeah, boot more often :p
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17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17425 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 7 changes by kasakg
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnau
17:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by josesun
17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 4 changes by glx
17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by prof
18:08:13 <andythenorth> should freight ships refit to mail?
18:08:58 <frosch123> well, a ship with 500 tons of mail looks silly
18:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, mail need not only be letters
18:09:54 <frosch123> so I would suggest to only allow small ships to transport mail :)
18:09:55 <Alberth> yeah, nice ribbon around the car, and post it :p
18:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ideally, there would be "container" vehicles, and ships carry containers
18:11:17 <andythenorth> ^^ but those are rather different to an 800t coaster
18:11:29 <andythenorth> I think no to mail on most of the freight ships
18:11:52 <andythenorth> which means I'm done for today, and about to stick a new release of FISH on the forums
18:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there is absolutely no limitation what can be in containers
18:11:59 <andythenorth> with running costs etc
18:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd suggest all freight ships that carry goods to be refittable to mail
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18:12:28 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: how about a container ship then
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18:18:46 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll think about the mail thing. Refitting to mail is not possible in the release I've just shipped...
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18:24:00 <Pikka|afk> we need combi ships.. passengers and freight :)
18:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and cars/railwagons ;)
18:25:32 <Pikka|afk> you can already do it with cars/railwagons
18:25:38 <Ammler> Pikka|afk: how do you chat here without beeing at the keyboard?
18:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have one of those?
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18:31:49 <frosch123> yeah and timber-rafts as articulated ships
18:32:05 <frosch123> but they only work in rivers
18:33:53 <andythenorth> we do need combi ships D:
18:34:13 <andythenorth> timber rafts are coming, but not articulated
18:34:49 <andythenorth> I've trashed a couple of the canal boats from FISH because they won't look good without articulation
18:40:07 <fjb> But ships are not really articulated...
18:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> especially river ships
18:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but also ocean cruisers while they maneuver in a harbour
18:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they get a small ship attached
18:42:58 <fjb> Ah, tug boats. I didn't count that as articulated vehicle.
18:55:05 <Pikka> interesting start sound on the ships :)
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19:01:36 <fjb> Hm, when I add the new fish grf to a running game, will it reise the base costs too? Or will that only happen when it was added before the game started?
19:01:54 <fjb> And are there plans to add a long format for prices?
19:01:55 <frosch123> currently only on game start
19:02:24 <frosch123> "plans" :p there are plans for everything :p
19:02:28 <Ammler> afaik, you need to go over scenario editor, but that might remove the vehicels.
19:02:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17426 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix (r1): economy recession would never end when economy is set to Steady while in recession
19:03:33 <PeterT> Pikka? whats the link to your wiki on making a grf?
19:06:21 <Pikka> I have a wiki on making a grf?
19:07:19 <frosch123> hmm, debugging debug-code is annoying :(
19:10:04 <frosch123> hmm, oh, it's correct
19:10:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what did you do with the regression savegame :o
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19:12:58 <Pikka> there's nothing worse than strained plants... D:
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19:19:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: why do you blame me for everything? :'(
19:20:16 <frosch123> you totally messed up the prices, didn't you? :)
19:20:44 <TrueBrain> why did I do that? :'(
19:21:01 <TrueBrain> blame the right person! I wouldn't dare to touch those things :) There is someone much more knowledgeable about such thingies :)
19:21:12 <frosch123> you gain money for removing and building stuff :)
19:21:17 <TrueBrain> first you blame me for removing posts which I never did, now this :'(
19:21:26 <TrueBrain> that you do :) Else the regression can't run :)
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19:21:52 <TrueBrain> but RB was so kind to make those .. alterations :)
19:22:08 <frosch123> ah rb is the evil guy :)
19:22:19 <TrueBrain> PeterT: you ever noticed the little red !
19:22:40 <PeterT> i was just about to say something about that
19:23:17 <PeterT> i dont want to report the post
19:25:08 <TrueBrain> you don't want to report it, but you want me to take care of it ..
19:25:09 <frosch123> vurlix signature is quite outdated
19:25:53 <Ammler> complain about someone who digged old threads is like answering to spam.
19:26:09 <Ammler> specially, if you aren't the first.
19:27:22 <Ammler> easier would be to write a PM and ask for deleting...
19:27:45 <TrueBrain> Ammler: for that we have a Report function inn the forum, yes
19:27:56 <Ammler> TrueBrain: I meant complain in the thread.
19:28:01 <fjb> There is nothing wrong about digging old threads if there is a reason for doing that.
19:28:27 <Ammler> fjb: you think "what?" is a reason?
19:28:42 <fjb> No, I think that is no reason.
19:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> grr... enough looking at ebay for things i can't afford anyway
19:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> these things are darn expensive
19:33:59 <PeterT> does compiling take this long for everyone?
19:34:10 <TrueBrain> depends on what you compile :p
19:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> about ye |< ------ >|
19:34:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: vurlix? Yeah, he is gone for .. 4 years no? :p
19:35:06 <PeterT> <TrueBrain> depends on what you compile :p <---- Openttd?
19:36:02 <TrueBrain> strgen is done in seconds :)
19:36:07 <fjb> Even that doesn't take the same time for everybody.
19:36:08 <TrueBrain> a clean compile takes for ever
19:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the compilation time ever increases...
19:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> darn new features all the time!
19:39:01 <fjb> Is there a ranking of the most hated persons of the forum?
19:39:10 <Ammler> you would need to be mod to edit without notification.
19:39:24 <TrueBrain> fjb: no, a certain person would always be on top, so that would be no competition
19:39:28 <Ammler> or is that possible now?
19:39:39 <TrueBrain> I dunno, I can always edit without notification :p :p :p
19:40:12 <TrueBrain> orudge: still here?
19:40:16 <PeterT> which mod deleted the 3 post
19:40:33 <TrueBrain> and now you are complaining the posts are not there anymore?
19:41:55 <PeterT> who said i was complaining?
19:42:27 <PeterT> that got me a little angry
19:42:40 <TrueBrain> you have no idea how often I close my browser before hitting send
19:42:43 * SmatZ tries to stay quiet when he's angry
19:42:46 <TrueBrain> I suggest you learn that trick too ;)
19:43:04 <TrueBrain> PeterT: dont apoligize to me; edit your text and say it there! :)
19:43:06 <Xaroth> aye, write what you want, but instead of hitting send, hit preview, read it, then close the tab/window.
19:45:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17427 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Removing some unneeded widget parts (for reduced compilation time).
19:45:13 <TrueBrain> I can't say; I wasn't the one who got told he has no brain :p
19:45:29 <TrueBrain> Alberth: that would be a first since a long time :p :p
19:45:35 <PeterT> i ddint say that he has no brain
19:46:07 <PeterT> i implied that this doesnt need to be sticky, because it just repeats instructions to the lazy people who dont use search
19:46:47 <TrueBrain> either way, not your nicest moment :p
19:46:51 <TrueBrain> nuff said about that
19:47:10 <PeterT> I remember ammler saying he doesn't like my posts
19:47:20 <PeterT> i forgot to ask which ones he was talking about
19:47:32 <TrueBrain> "all of them" <- some replies are too easy :p
19:49:26 <TrueBrain> a bump after 4 minutes?
19:49:26 <SmatZ> I failed to decypher his request
19:49:34 <TrueBrain> you guys should really fix that definition of 'bumping'
19:49:35 <SmatZ> "Stations with no platform that trains only stop at by request of a passeenger." wtf
19:50:02 <valhallasw> you know, those yellow trains with a sign 'taxi' on top?
19:50:02 <TrueBrain> he more often makes no sense :)
19:50:04 <PeterT> i dont know if they have it in czech republic
19:50:08 <Ammler> well, supported quite well by trunk :-)
19:50:21 <Ammler> and afaik, not supported by cargodist
19:50:53 <PeterT> on american buses/trains if there isnt any passengers waiting to join the vehicle, the vehicle doesnt stop unless a passenger on the vehicle press this button to make it stop
19:51:16 <TrueBrain> PeterT: busses: yes; trams: yes; but trains?
19:51:20 <Ammler> that is quite usual on bus lines.
19:51:30 <SmatZ> interesting, I guess we have that for busses on some rarely-used stations
19:51:33 <PeterT> TrueBrain, various trains ;)
19:51:39 <TrueBrain> for trains that would be a bit tricky
19:51:45 <TrueBrain> you have to hold your hand over the tracks or something?
19:51:52 <TrueBrain> oh, no, a high-speed train, 140 km/h
19:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i have seen phrases like "stops only on request" on train schedules, i think
19:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but only at the most extreme branch lines
19:52:28 <Ammler> those buttons are called "emergency stop"
19:52:42 <TrueBrain> I only know it on busses and trams/metros :) But okay, I guess trains can be done too :p
19:52:46 <TrueBrain> but then the part: with no platform
19:52:52 <PeterT> ammler is confusing yellow with red
19:52:56 <TrueBrain> how would that be? You go stand on the side of the track and hold up your hand?
19:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> early trams used to be that way
19:53:30 <PeterT> i guess it depends on the conductor's vision, he just looks out, people?! yes? stop.
19:54:00 <fjb> There is a grf which has "invisible" platforms. They simply look like ordinary track.
19:54:18 <TrueBrain> very scary for trains :)
19:54:25 <TrueBrain> Muddy: love your rdns :)
19:54:32 <nicfer> one question, how did the daylenght patch work?
19:55:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: what part didn't you get?
19:55:30 <TrueBrain> (I said 3 things it can refer to)
19:55:46 <Ammler> TrueBrain: silly, oftc doesn't allow cloaks without reason but that...
19:55:51 <SmatZ> [21:54:40] <TrueBrain> very well
19:56:03 <Ammler> oh, or is it a real dns
19:56:03 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: was that reply to nicfer?
19:56:05 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: he asked how it worked .. well .. very well, if you ask me :)
19:56:25 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: no, but that is not important :)
19:56:29 <TrueBrain> I just liked the reply :)
19:57:55 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: my point was more that his question was ambigious :)
20:00:01 <fjb> I should really start to add a second track to my main lines.
20:00:24 <Rubidium> ooh ;) finally someone who found the trick why regression actually doesn't go bankrupt. Too bad it's 'only' a dev ;)
20:00:30 <PeterT> who is good with wiki formatting?
20:00:53 <PeterT> ^what did i do wrong there?^
20:01:17 <TrueBrain> ghehe @ Rubidium :p
20:01:21 <fjb> Ist there a terplus station?
20:02:05 <Rubidium> The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary.
20:02:11 <PeterT> how do i make the "Two Way Terminus" heading go BELOW the picture
20:03:35 <fjb> Rubidium: terplus opposed to terminus.
20:06:45 <Muddy> TrueBrain: heh, i know :D
20:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know tarot
20:22:27 <fjb> I don't need a terrorist. I'm blowing up my own bridges.
20:22:43 <TrueBrain> that sounds horrible
20:25:28 <fjb> I moved some lines in the mountains.
20:34:59 <fjb> Single track lines are working astonishingly well with YAPP.
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20:56:27 <satan2k> i got an interesting bug with a nightly, may be someone is interested to talk about this? Its about the language support not working properly =)
20:56:39 <satan2k> (with the last nightly btw =) )
20:58:37 <satan2k> i'm not coming from the dutch part of belgium btw >_<
20:59:01 <_ln> impossible, no one in the french part speaks english.
20:59:13 <satan2k> i guess i'm the exception :D
21:00:05 <satan2k> so about the language support
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21:00:33 <satan2k> when i start the nightly it overrides the config file by using greek.lng
21:01:02 <satan2k> even if i chmod the file, it still overrides by using greek.lng >_<
21:02:01 <satan2k> i tried both ~/.openttd/config.cfg & $openttddir/config.cfg
21:02:07 <Rubidium> sounds like you got the wrong language files for the nightly
21:02:27 <Rubidium> and only the greek language file it valid for the nightly you're running
21:03:04 <satan2k> thanks for the answer because there was nothing on the logs :D
21:03:35 <satan2k> it's still weird that openttd overrides the file even if it has not the rights >_<
21:03:45 <satan2k> i mean the config file
21:04:16 <satan2k> even with a chmod 400 ... :D
21:04:42 <satan2k> btw thanks for the answer =)
21:04:53 <satan2k> "it's not a bug, it's a feature" =)
21:05:49 <TrueBrain> it is impossible for OpenTTD to read any file on a sane filesystem on which it doesn't have rights
21:05:59 <TrueBrain> that is simply because you can't bypass those restrictions without becoming root
21:06:34 <TrueBrain> it is not like you have to check if you ahve permissions .. no .. the fs denies you access ;)
21:06:35 <satan2k> i know that but i can print the log if you dont thrust me, its really weird :D
21:06:59 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but... it can write a new file, rename the old one and rename the new one
21:07:17 <TrueBrain> btw, chmod 0000 really denies access
21:07:22 <TrueBrain> chmod 0400 just gives read-only to owner
21:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the file permissions do not disallow removing
21:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to protect the directory for that
21:09:37 <satan2k> ok it was my fault about the language... i was using the bad lng files. Sorry for wasting your time. Btw thanks for your answers =)
21:10:06 <TrueBrain> not a single problem :)
21:11:06 <PeterT> do you think that timed bans could be introduced to openttd?
21:13:48 <SmatZ> ap+ can certainly do that
21:14:25 <PeterT> thats not so easy on windows, my friend
21:14:35 <PeterT> is this an offer to set it up?
21:14:53 <SmatZ> I think it's a nice job for external app, like ap+
21:15:10 <SmatZ> ask Ammler what he thinks about that :)
21:15:27 <SmatZ> ah, you mean, ap+ on windows
21:15:38 <SmatZ> hmmm, who uses windows...
21:16:13 <PeterT> no-one! (only most of computer users)
21:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: grep for string_id, and replace every occurence with a new method of Engine <- i can only find 2 places which read this variable... all other occurences are either write acces, or completely different types... that sounds strange...
21:19:35 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ah, true, everything uses {ENGINE}
21:21:28 <frosch123> but you likely don't want to call the callback in there :p so you need to cache the result somewhere and update it somewhere
21:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so put the callback into some kind of daily loop or something?
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21:27:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17428 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: add a function to get the name of a driver
21:27:51 <frosch123> sorry eddi, no idea how to do it nicely
21:27:56 <zachanima> and z-MaTRiX for that matter
21:28:02 <Nite_Owl> we can name drivers of vehicles now as well
21:29:03 <zachanima> well you just said hey-ho, so I thought it rude to greet Nite but not you
21:29:59 <z-MaTRiX> idontcareifitsnightornot
21:30:35 <zachanima> hrm. I wanted Infrastructure Sharing and Cargodist at the same time. So I went ahead and merged them - the wrong way around. I should have merged them with trunk separately so I could have sent those patches to the developers of both ... patches
21:32:30 <PeterT> zachanima, if you get IS and cargodist working, please send me a binary
21:33:14 <zachanima> not long now - I am at news_gui.cpp
21:33:31 <zachanima> PeterT, you want it before or after a merge with trunk?
21:33:41 <zachanima> (cargodist is 6 days old)
21:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you make no sense, why "merge with trunk" when they are already against (fairly recent) trunk?
21:34:17 <zachanima> to make them proper recent?
21:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest taking a trunk revision that is close to the patch releases, not the most recent trunk
21:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you either update, or you merge... you should concentrate only on one of these
21:35:53 <zachanima> the latest patch release for cargodist was nothing more than a merge with trunk - this is where I am now
21:35:59 <zachanima> 8 days old, apparently
21:36:12 <zachanima> and also that makes sense. Pardon my newbieness
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21:37:13 <zachanima> Eddi|zuHause, my reason for merging with trunk was to further both projects, though
21:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that'll help
21:37:43 <Nite_Owl> so my driver joke was D.O.A
21:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if i were a patch maintainer, i'd stay far away from a "newbie" updating a patch
21:38:21 <zachanima> I'm not a newbie in patching, only this project
21:38:33 <zachanima> but I see what you mean
21:38:41 <zachanima> or rather, understand - and agree, to a degree
21:39:09 <zachanima> nevertheless, if _I_ were a patch maintainer, I'd at least have a look at it. After all, it could save me some work
21:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen this many times... a patch was "updated" and after a while the original developer came along and was like "what the heck were you doing? this is all wrong!"
21:39:31 <zachanima> no matter! The issue at hand is the merging of those two
21:40:49 <zachanima> well, I will stick to doing these merges to my own diabolical ends for now - at least until I get to grips with both the project and the code base
21:42:20 <PeterT> so your not giving them out?
21:44:11 <zachanima> but not for the purpose of spreading the patches (although you can obviously have it if you want)
21:45:14 <zachanima> PeterT, what platform do you want the binary for?
21:45:33 <PeterT> if you give me the patch, i can make the binaries
21:46:24 <zachanima> hmm, I can do the win32 if you want, but I might as well give you the patch either way
21:51:31 <PeterT> ok, if you can do it that would be great
21:51:41 <fjb> Can I have a binary too, please?
21:51:43 <PeterT> and the patch would be great too
21:52:05 <zachanima> heh, well let me finish the merge and see if it even works, first ^^
21:52:12 <PeterT> i suppose you will PM us on tt-forums with an attachment
21:52:20 <zachanima> PeterT, I suppose I will
21:52:21 <PeterT> fjb: do you have an account
21:52:53 <fjb> zachanima: Ok, but no Windows binary please.
21:53:10 <fjb> PeterT: Ofcourse I have. More than one.
21:53:12 <zachanima> fjb, just the patch then?
21:53:29 <zachanima> I can only give you linux and win32
21:53:36 <zachanima> so I'm assuming linux
21:53:54 <PeterT> can you compile yourself fljb?
21:54:19 <zachanima> brr, I'll just give you the patch then - or have someone with a proper environment set up for freebsd compiling
21:55:22 <PeterT> can you guess what my tt-forums name is?
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21:55:54 <fjb> PeterT: Guessing at this time of the day? Impossible.
21:56:13 <PeterT> fjb, not EVERYone is in europe, you know
21:56:26 <zachanima> I would have used 'zach', was it not taken by mysterious forces (invisible in member list, anyway)
21:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: but someone with a hostname ending with .dk probably is
21:57:22 <PeterT> why would i check their hostname?
21:57:48 <fjb> PeterT: No? Really not everyone? I'm feeling alone now.
21:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: even if not, the probability in here is exceptionally high
21:58:20 <PeterT> yeah, we run on europe time
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22:03:54 <zachanima> whether I'm sufficiently qualified or not, infrastructure-sharing could do with an update
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22:07:47 <PeterT> which line of code, in what file determines the version name of openttd?
22:08:07 <Tefad> isn't it something like rev.
22:08:37 <PeterT> well, i was thinking of "OpenTTD 0.7.2"
22:08:48 <DaleStan> grep is your friend.
22:08:50 <PeterT> so if i wanted, i could change it to "OpenTTD Peter"
22:09:09 <PeterT> so, in what .cpp file?
22:09:37 <DaleStan> The one that grep says contains "0.7.2" Though it might be a .h.
22:12:14 <DorpsGek> PeterT: XeryusTC was last seen in #openttd 14 weeks, 3 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <XeryusTC> Amr0d> I want to know how long it takes to build such a junction <- depending on the junction from half an hour to half a day
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22:14:59 <zachanima> saveload/station_sl.cpp <- progressing alphabetically
22:16:23 <PeterT> solving inconsistancies?
22:16:55 <zachanima> (there are quite a few)
22:17:58 <zachanima> and I'm not even sure I can make it work properly between the two (cargo distribution along own as well as shared stations, for example)
22:18:36 <zachanima> but if I indeed succeed, I'll let you know
22:18:39 <PeterT> this would be the ultimate patch
22:19:42 <zachanima> not really. But it's a patch I've wanted for long enough for me to actually (try to) do it myself
22:20:35 <PeterT> why wont other people do it?
22:21:13 <zachanima> it's not that simple. And to be fair, infrastructure-sharing isn't really up to date. It's quite some process
22:21:51 <zachanima> that, and according to the wiki's "requested features" page, both projects are 90% complete. You wouldn't want to spend hours doing something that might be added to trunk in the near future
22:21:57 <zachanima> I think not, anyway
22:22:00 <fjb> And it has to be multiplayer safe in the end.
22:22:41 <PeterT> i cant wait until they are in trunk
22:22:47 <zachanima> else there's no point to infrastructure sharing
22:23:11 <zachanima> I think those are the two features I would most like to see in trunk
22:24:09 <fjb> I think cargodist hast quite a way before it is ready for trunk.
22:24:50 <zachanima> but as far as I can tell, infrastructure sharing is nearly there. It could do with some visual representation of not-your-tracks
22:25:40 <PeterT> eh, trying to bomb a track and failing is enough representation for me
22:26:23 <zachanima> I was thinking about the usage fees
22:27:33 <zachanima> well, maybe it's just me - but overseeing a shared network, it isn't entirely evident what parts of it you will need to pay usage fees for
22:27:47 <zachanima> there was some talk of a newgrf toll booth-ish thing
22:28:39 <zachanima> but well, I suppose both parties could just put up nice-looking waypoints and name them something relevant
22:29:02 <zachanima> since if you're running on no-fees anyway, it doesn't really matter
22:29:20 <PeterT> when i play in IS, i usually add bought land where my rail starts
22:29:44 <Ammler> he? what about the fences?
22:29:55 <PeterT> Ammler: sort of hard to see
22:30:33 <PeterT> its a really cool IS server
22:30:35 <zachanima> and Ammler, I suppose they should be enough, though
22:30:42 <PeterT> with an entire prebuilt rail network
22:31:47 <fjb> Where is the fun when the network is prebuild?
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22:32:40 <PeterT> there are 13 islands, each = 256 tiles
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22:33:08 <zachanima> screenshot, perhaps?
22:34:09 <PeterT> so, 13 islands, prebuilt network between them, but you must make your own network on your own island
22:34:13 <PeterT> screenshot will take too long
22:35:27 <zachanima> hmm. It sounds like an idea I had earlier
22:35:36 <zachanima> based on the the network "features" of Lego Loco
22:36:43 <zachanima> where sharing train network was encouraged, yet you were confined to your own space and 2-4 (based on your position in the grid) outbound connections
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22:49:17 <zachanima> PeterT, will you be on later?
22:49:28 <PeterT> for about 5 more hours :)
22:49:43 <PeterT> so i've still got loads of time
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23:09:41 <zachanima> welcome back, PeterT
23:18:58 <DorpsGek> PeterT: I have not seen mks.
23:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <zachanima> that, and according to the wiki's "requested features" page, both projects are 90% complete. You wouldn't want to spend hours doing something that might be added to trunk in the near future <- I'm fairly sure it's not going to happen any time soon
23:22:05 <zachanima> anyway, my point was not that it might be added to trunk soon, but that it could look like it would be
23:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> neither of them is even remotely finished, and even then the process of reviewing and adding it is long
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