IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-03
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01:59:32 <_0x90u> Hey. Does anyone know what the licensing for OpenTTD is? Can't seem to find it on the wiki.
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02:05:58 <Tefad> _0x90u: click about on the main website
02:06:37 <_0x90u> second question: is there currently an ipod/iphone port?
02:21:23 <_0x90u> Tefad: found it btw. GNU General Public License version 2.0
02:21:55 <_0x90u> Thanks for telling me now xD
02:22:23 <Tefad> what is the 2nd thing i said
02:22:52 <_0x90u> I'm on 24Kbps internet =/
02:23:13 <Tefad> irc rarely goes above 100bps . . .
02:23:22 <Tefad> at least for this channel
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05:39:50 <DaleStan> planetmaker: Can you come up with any other tests for make install's directory? I currently intuit one of three different values on Windowsy systems, and one value for absolutely-everything-else.
05:40:03 <DaleStan> Maybe this is just Windows being Windows.
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06:03:25 <DaleStan> Elton09494: Please quit the join/part flooding.
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06:07:19 <DaleStan> Elton05236: Please quit the join/part flooding.
06:08:04 <LadyHawk> if the guy's connection didn't suck, he might be able to
06:08:49 <DaleStan> He could stop rejoining, and then he wouldn't keep falling back off.
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07:12:02 <planetmaker> DaleStan: there should be access to the env variables like SERPATH% (or similar, I don't have it at hand right now) - which could give you a localization and configuration independent path for windows
07:12:28 <planetmaker> hm... the % U got eaten
07:13:06 <planetmaker> but a destinction between windows and other OS needs to be made somehow.
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07:29:21 <planetmaker> quite productively bored IMO :-)
07:29:33 <planetmaker> morning all, morning Ammler
07:30:20 <Ammler> now, we need to moe the pure white warnings to error log
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07:52:28 <Alberth> good morning dihedral
08:02:21 <planetmaker> some pure white warnings remain
08:03:49 <Ammler> yes, but they should appear in the error log, so it would be more verbose.
08:28:45 <Rubidium> dihedral: you got a PPC mac, right?
08:29:34 <dihedral> i dont have it here at work though - i can get hold of it again around 18.00 CEST
08:29:59 <dihedral> but i'll give it a shot then
08:31:25 <dihedral> anything specific to look out for? or just running?
08:31:56 <Rubidium> well, it's to check whether the compile farm can make binaries of those for PPC that work
08:31:57 <dihedral> eh.... great last sentence ^^
08:32:18 <dihedral> i'll do that when i am home
08:40:39 <planetmaker> Rubidium, thanks for all those graphics fixes :-)
08:41:24 <planetmaker> concerning the pcx dependency, I'll have to see how to teach my mac to like it, too
08:41:40 <planetmaker> somehow the sed syntax seems to differ...
08:59:52 <TrueBrain> what a boring day .. what a boring day ..
09:00:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you should ask those guy of OpenGFX about boring days ;)
09:01:07 <TrueBrain> guys of OpenGFX: I wamt to ask you about boring days
09:01:36 <Rubidium> oh, I had a boring evening
09:02:33 <TrueBrain> what did you do this time? :p
09:03:13 <dihedral> TrueBrain, looks like that subconsciousness test of mine did not work
09:05:15 <dihedral> uh - i did not know Rubidium participated in opengfx :)
09:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> <planetmaker> hm... the % U got eaten <- try doubling the %
09:05:47 <dihedral> oh yeah - that was a piece of beauty, Sacro
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09:09:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: why is the credit list in reversed order?!
09:10:21 <Rubidium> because Ammler doesn't like to be on top (of that list)
09:10:32 <TrueBrain> and now it looks like Zephyris is more important
09:10:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17050 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: replace custom implementation of TILE_LOOP with TILE_LOOP.
09:10:46 <TrueBrain> the idea of alphabetical order is to give the impression they are all equal .. reversing it kind of undos that
09:10:55 <Sacro> a thing of beauty is a joy forever
09:12:54 <Ammler> TrueBrain: it is Zephyris' set, the style which some like, some don't
09:14:20 <planetmaker> Mainly Rubidium is right, though ;-)
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09:29:03 <TrueBrain> Ammler: even the more reason to re-reverse that list
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09:40:12 <OsteHovel^PDA> Im sitting here in a resturant in Norway and a track that is in OpenTTD or atlest it listened the same was playing ;D
09:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> a sound track...
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10:08:29 <Groggy> can you run a game with only AI's?
10:09:43 <TrueBrain> (btw, plural of AI is AIs, not AI's)
10:10:22 <TrueBrain> start a dedicated server and don't join the game, while AIs are active (in multiplayer)
10:10:44 <TrueBrain> and in singleplayer you can do the same
10:10:50 <TrueBrain> just then there is 1 company which is owned by you
10:10:58 <TrueBrain> just don't do anything, and you still have a game with only AI
10:11:48 <Groggy> but won't the singelplayer game end when I don't have any money left?
10:12:09 <TrueBrain> you have a few good years before that happens :)
10:12:18 <TrueBrain> even then the game continues
10:13:00 <TrueBrain> np; just try a bit and you will find out yourself what happens :)
10:13:10 <Alberth> Groggy: to prevent ending, set up a simple line that just makes a profit.
10:13:23 <TrueBrain> Alberth: then it no longer is AIs only ;)
10:13:37 <TrueBrain> in SP you can't go bankrupt, so I don't see the problem anyway ;)
10:14:03 <Groggy> I thought I could go bankrupt
10:14:11 <Groggy> then are there no problem
10:14:37 <TrueBrain> you get a popup, you click no, you continue :p
10:14:43 <TrueBrain> haven't seen that dialog in ages :p
10:14:58 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you haven't played in ages, so that's not fair
10:15:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you want to say it is no longer true? :)
10:15:14 <Groggy> I just read and presses the right button
10:15:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: no, I've not played in ages (or rather, I've not gone bankrupt)
10:17:11 <Alberth> we should add a new disaster for such players: "tax scandal: president is forced to resign" :p
10:17:44 <Sacro> "President is spotted getting blowjob - impeached"
10:18:12 <TrueBrain> you should get promoted in that case, Sacro
10:18:21 <TrueBrain> "President still gots it!"
10:18:27 <Alberth> could be a nice side effect when spotted bribing the city :)
10:19:03 <Sacro> TrueBrain: didn't happen for Bill though
10:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> disturbing image alert!
10:19:55 <Rubidium> "President spotted on the Apalachian trail"
10:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> even after all those years, the late night talkshows are still full of bill and hillary jokes
10:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> especially during the election campaign
10:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> is it me or is it very cold today?
10:24:35 <TrueBrain> I love such answers :)
10:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i very often answer that way :)
10:25:11 <TrueBrain> we had a foreign person over yesterday
10:25:16 <TrueBrain> and he closed every sentence with: you know?
10:25:20 <TrueBrain> we kept on replying with: no
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11:00:00 <Ammler> Rubidium: I like the patch, what about redirect warnings to stderr?
11:14:00 <Ammler> I thought, there is a reason, those warnings are on stdout.
11:14:22 <TrueBrain> again, having such moment? :p
11:14:56 <Ammler> well, it might be easier to ask, when I don't have such moments :-P
11:15:25 <Rubidium> when you're 'the late Ammler'?
11:15:52 <Ammler> hmm, truebrain means something else.
11:16:19 <TrueBrain> you know what I refer to ;)
11:16:41 <Ammler> anyway I will use those patches on the server.
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11:19:58 <Ammler> I guess, I see, why they aren't piped to stderr
11:20:11 <Ammler> you don't see which pcx is meant
11:21:53 <Alberth> then the pcx name should be part of the warning imho
11:22:29 <TrueBrain> dihedral: fix your VPS! :p
11:23:00 <Ammler> maybe, that is what he does right now :-)
11:24:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: the pcx was never shown
11:25:05 <Rubidium> you get the sprite number though
11:25:18 <Rubidium> and with that you can grep the .nfo and get the file AND the exact location
11:26:44 <Ammler> maybe I should generate just one file and grep it for warnings and errors
11:28:06 <Ammler> the issue is just on opengfx, else you have one grf, only.
11:28:44 <Alberth> until you run a number of conversions in batch
11:29:44 <Alberth> suppose I have several grf sources, and build them all in one run.
11:31:17 <Alberth> (ie I think an error/warning should give you enough indication to find the point of the error in the orginal source without further trickery with files, grep, etc)
11:32:12 <Ammler> yeah, that might be the reason, grfcodec trunk doesn't pipe it to stderr
11:34:22 <Alberth> BAD grfcodec. However, programs originating from DOS tend to do that. Such programs also tend to output useless copyright and progress text :p
11:35:18 <Alberth> (so the errors are nicely hidden in all the other output)
11:36:45 <Alberth> (and using the program in a pipe is not possible :( )
11:37:26 <Rubidium> anyhow... you can 'easily' get the filename of the pcx, but the information about the location within the pcx seems already lost at that place
11:38:58 <Ammler> well, you need to check the nfo anyway
11:40:46 <Ammler> so it would suffice if you know at least the nfo and maybe the pcx.
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11:42:50 <Ammler> but that might also be the task of the Makefile
11:43:59 <Alberth> Ammler: I really like what you are doing with "AI Battle Royale".
11:45:36 <Alberth> oh, sorry, I mean Roujin
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12:07:38 <dihedral> <TrueBrain> dihedral: fix your VPS! :p <- nothing i could control
12:09:31 <blathijs> dihedral: Make other people fix it then :-p
12:09:40 <blathijs> Optionally by paying them more money
12:10:05 <dihedral> you can ditch that thought ;-)
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12:20:13 * OwenS puzzles why OpenVPN refuses to create a tap devic
12:24:37 <dihedral> OwenS, check for a tun device :-P
12:24:58 <OwenS> dihedral: It's configured for tap mode. And no virtual devices whatsoever
12:25:19 <dihedral> in early openvpn times i had to create the device myself with mknod
12:25:41 <dihedral> i do assume here you are running a linux os
12:25:49 <OwenS> The malfunctioning end I am :p
12:25:59 <OwenS> The working fine end is Solaris
12:26:47 <OwenS> Mon Aug 3 08:26:14 2009 us=565884 TLS Error: TLS key negotiation failed to occur within 60 seconds (check your network connectivity) <-- =S
12:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... today's xkcd reminds me of last week's robot chicken...
12:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> they also had an armageddon parody there
12:41:08 <dihedral> OwenS, and you are using the same version on both ends?
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13:01:07 <Ammler> nice forum signature, dihedral :-)
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14:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause> this is weird... i have two tv recordings of the same movie, 1 day apart, same channel
14:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> both are 4:3 letterbox
14:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but they are completely differently cropped
14:08:51 <Rubidium> :O Sacro playing hide'n'seek with Exl?
14:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> this directory is empty.
14:11:25 <Belugas> quite a dynamic ip indeed
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14:20:56 <TrueBrain> I think he said enough
14:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> more than the people who just join and quit without saying anything? :p
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14:44:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17051 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the graph legend window use nested widgets
14:45:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17052 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move state changes out of OnPaint for the graph windows
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14:59:31 <adam_vollrath> I'd like to do some simple development: Create a new list of town names. How much work would this be to set up?
14:59:47 <TrueBrain> depends on your C++ skills, I say
15:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> town name generators are done via newgrf
15:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there are examples for that out there
15:00:27 <adam_vollrath> I haven't yet found an example.
15:00:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: then what does namegen.cpp do?
15:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: old stuff
15:01:16 <DaleStan> adam_vollrath: Google for 'ustowns' or 'ustownset', I think.
15:01:23 <Alberth> town directory window should contain an example
15:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the problem with cpp name generators is that you cannot replace them
15:01:50 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I am not complaining, just wondering when someone would convert them to grfs
15:01:51 <DaleStan> So, actually, that doesn't work. Nevermind.
15:02:08 <adam_vollrath> Where would I look to get started with NewGRF development in general?
15:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> wiki.ttdpatch.net
15:02:28 <DaleStan> wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs
15:02:30 <adam_vollrath> And if anyone can point me to an example source for a town name NewGRF, that'd be v helpful.
15:03:16 <Ammler> adam_vollrath: glx dev space
15:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> afair there was the conversion of the french town names as example... not sure
15:03:38 <glx> conversion of openttd generators into newgrf
15:04:21 <Ammler> french town names does use real names
15:04:35 <Ammler> just randomize a big list
15:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> using a list of real names is probably the easiest
15:04:56 <glx> TrueBrain: all can be converted (except english I think)
15:05:05 <TrueBrain> glx: why isn't it done yet then? :)
15:05:08 <TrueBrain> (just wondering, really)
15:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't english have some exceptions for "unsuitable" names?
15:06:02 <Ammler> it would generate new support tickets, where is my town name generator gone? ;-)
15:06:07 <adam_vollrath> Hrm. Are there any NewGRF developers willing to help me replace the town names for a modest PayPal donation?
15:06:34 <TrueBrain> lol, I think he used too many times the Bribe button :)
15:07:41 <Ammler> adam_vollrath: collect everything you have, make a nice tt-forums post and ask there for help.
15:08:37 <Ammler> if the list/design is ready, I am sure, you will find some help.
15:09:01 <adam_vollrath> ^ or do I need to alter the byte offsets there too?
15:09:37 <adam_vollrath> Yeah I can't find the specs.
15:13:34 <adam_vollrath> wow this does not look simple.
15:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a little reading into...
15:15:11 <adam_vollrath> Do I need to edit all that hex by hand or are there tools to help with this?
15:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try grfmaker, but i don't know if it handles town names
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15:23:47 <glx> it is very simple (compared to other newgrf actions)
15:24:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17053 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: pass a Rect to DrawGraph so it knows where to draw
15:24:06 <adam_vollrath> I'm gonna poast on the tt-forums about it soon, I think.
15:26:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17054 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Bridge gui uses nested widgets only.
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16:13:02 <IndioCabron> Have you ever suspected that Negroes are actually a transitional variant of Homo Erectus? Source: http://www.erectuswalksamongst.us Sick of niiiggggers and their monkeyshines? Then join us at Chimpout.com! At Chimpout we are not White Supremacists, rather we are Negro Inferiorists. Chimpout.com welcomes the rainbow of diversity that exists amongst humans, welcoming with open arms Asians, White
16:13:02 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~IndioCabr@200.79.144.187.dsl.dyn.telnor.net
16:13:03 *** IndioCabron was kicked by DorpsGek (IndioCabron)
16:15:19 <Rubidium> actually I'm sick of you Chimpout spammers...
16:18:20 <glx> wow this trigger was not used for a long time
16:19:14 <Rubidium> glx: does the trigger also notify the OFTC admins of the spammer?
16:19:29 <glx> no it only commands DorpsGek
16:20:46 <glx> keoz: how do you think the kickban can be that fast ?
16:21:09 <keoz> oh ... yes. I understood something else
16:21:25 <dihedral> Rubidium, the 2 zip's you asked me to run...
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16:22:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: good to know, then I'll add OSX-PPC to the compile farm
16:22:02 <dihedral> i actually never en/decode grf's, etc.
16:22:19 <Rubidium> dihedral: just build ogfx with it ;)
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16:29:13 <TrueBrain> oh, and my paypal is ... :p
16:29:51 <TrueBrain> I was more thinking off my personal one :p
16:30:30 <Alberth> Rubidium: (05:06:27 PM) adam_vollrath: Hrm. Are there any NewGRF developers willing to help me replace the town names for a modest PayPal donation?
16:30:44 <dihedral> [Generating:] opengfx.obg
16:30:44 <dihedral> [Done] Basegraphics successfully generated.
16:32:11 <Rubidium> so rosetta just sucks ;)
16:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that always reminds me of asterix
16:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> where they join the legion and everyone is disgusted by the food, except the british guy :p
16:36:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17055 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Improve aligning of bridge sprites and descriptions in bridge gui.
16:37:31 <planetmaker> Rubidium, is that the same binary you gave me?
16:37:44 <planetmaker> (or same build process)
16:37:54 <Rubidium> should be, though you can retest
16:37:55 <Belugas> naaa.. that one has a virus, not yours
16:38:24 <Rubidium> Belugas: no, I don't do viri, only keyloggers in Apple keyboards :)
16:38:35 <planetmaker> latest nightly of grfcodec / renum right?
16:41:51 <planetmaker> I must have tested renum :-) The link is differently coloured :-)
16:42:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17056 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Reduce width of the drop-down in the bridge gui.
16:42:56 <Alberth> nah, Rubidium just renamed the binaries
16:43:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: well, I've rebuilt them with newer revisions
16:44:27 <planetmaker> well... renum obviously not :-)
16:45:02 <Rubidium> then there wasn't a newer version of that ;)
17:00:09 <TrueBrain> pff .. 52 languages .. pff .. takes so long :(
17:02:40 <TrueBrain> 80 seconds per language .. pff
17:02:44 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 69.3333333333
17:04:28 <TrueBrain> Jeff Dunham ... briliant guy
17:05:48 <dihedral> i like his "Bubba J" too
17:05:58 <TrueBrain> bounce bounce bounce
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17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17057 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 28 changes by kasakg
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 4 changes by Gavin
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 12 changes by habell
17:45:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 54 changes by agenthh
17:45:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 9 changes by jpx_
17:51:02 <Yexo> when will habell learn to be consistent?
17:51:38 <Yexo> "op ...locatie", but "op de vliegtuiglocatie" <- why use "de" only in that string?
17:52:45 <Alberth> TrueBrain: feature request, allow for peer review of changes
17:53:58 <Rubidium> Alberth: you can already do that
17:57:31 <dihedral> Alberth, there needs to be an active peer for that :-P
17:58:47 <Alberth> dihedral: that's one of the few short comings of a peer review system indeed.
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18:23:52 <DaleStan> Why can't POSIX and ISO agree on whether funtion names start with _?
18:24:08 <Rubidium> DaleStan: what do you mean?
18:24:46 <DaleStan> According to MSDN, "isatty: This POSIX function is deprecated beginning in Visual C++ 2005. Use the ISO C++ conformant _isatty instead."
18:25:54 <Rubidium> that's more a MS thingy; they have deprecated basically the whole POSIX set of functions
18:25:55 <Alberth> that is not a ISO function, but a MS "ISO C++ conformant" function.
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18:26:28 <Rubidium> also the C++ specs I've got don't mention isatty
18:26:32 <ddfreyne> didn't MS add a _s to everything anyway?
18:26:45 <Rubidium> ddfreyne: not always
18:26:48 <Alberth> Rubidium: it's a unix library thing
18:26:51 <ddfreyne> gets_s and printf_s and whatever
18:27:25 <DaleStan> But yes, MS does like to add random characters to perfectly ordinary function names.
18:27:49 <Alberth> not to mention put type information in varnames :)
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18:32:52 <ddfreyne> Alberth: hungarian notation comes in two forms… good and bad
18:33:53 <ddfreyne> IMO, "bad" means putting the actual type in there (i for integer, b for boolean, …) and "good" means not the type but the kind ("m" for member variable, "k" for constant, "a" for argument, …)
18:33:54 <Rubidium> DaleStan: for what it's worth: "This POSIX function is deprecated beginning in Visual C++ 2005. Use the ISO C++ conformant _access or security-enhanced _access_s instead." (grfcodec uses access)
18:36:34 <Rubidium> although I see no difference in the declaration of the function in Linux or the _access function in Windows
18:37:06 <frosch123> ddfreyne: and which of those two forms uses 'p' for pointer, 'r' for reference, 'sp' for smart autopointers, and at the same time 's' for static?
18:37:26 <Rubidium> and sp for static pointers
18:37:45 <ddfreyne> frosch123: bad, probably ;)
18:38:46 <ddfreyne> frosch123: I only introduce hungarian notation in my code when I believe that it is useful… I mostly stick to "a" and "m", which makes the purpose of the variables quite a bit more clear IMHO
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18:48:42 <Alberth> ddfreyne: I used such conventions too for some years, but stopped doing that, too cumbersome and not very useful
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18:51:26 * frosch123 is usually only annoyed about "char* foo;" instead of "char *foo;"
18:51:53 <frosch123> though I still have not figured out whether "const int a = 5" or "int const a = 5" is more correct
18:52:04 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how long did that take to get into OpenTTD developers mind ... to use char * over char* ...
18:52:09 <Alberth> for many years I wrote "char*foo" :)
18:53:36 <frosch123> well, for sure, pascal's ^ is way better than c's *
18:53:55 <Alberth> aString: String, bString: String, cString: String
18:55:02 <frosch123> AnsiChar? AnsiString?
18:59:14 <ddfreyne> Alberth: to be honest, I don't code in C much anymore these days, and I have only a small number of hungarian notation conventions I stick to
19:02:40 <Belugas> hooo... frosch123 : "Object Pascal supports single-byte and multibyte characters and strings through the Char, PChar, AnsiChar, PAnsiChar, and AnsiString types."
19:08:55 <frosch123> "I’m using the word kind on purpose, there, because Simonyi mistakenly used the word type in his paper, and generations of programmers misunderstood what he meant." <- lol
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19:25:16 <TrueBrain> # Come on come on, lets work together
19:25:38 *** tux_mark_5 has joined #openttd
19:25:54 <TrueBrain> sf.net, category Games, top 10, first hit: desktop tool. 4th hit: freeguide tv guide
19:26:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you're saying it wrong
19:27:19 <TrueBrain> pff, this takes too much work
19:27:20 <Rubidium> and sf.net has improved their non-usefulness one again
19:27:39 <TrueBrain> well, sf.net now looks AWESOME!
19:28:09 <TrueBrain> how often can one make a complete disaster which then be called 'design'
19:29:08 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is ranked 3191 .. nice :p
19:29:08 <Rubidium> how many packages can you mark as being a Windows download?
19:29:09 <Xaroth> the site looks nicer now, the actual browsing through it has gone from sucky to bloody impossible
19:29:26 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: yeah, a common mistake ;)
19:29:44 <TrueBrain> 93.58% 16,642 2006-05-17 N/A 188
19:29:45 <TrueBrain> openHospital is a rewrite of the classic Theme Hospital by Bullfrog. In the spirit of OpenTTD, OH aims to develop a new software core using the original game data from Theme Hospital.
19:30:13 <TrueBrain> wonder if the clone is any good, it being 3 years old and no release
19:30:14 <Xaroth> it wasn't a keeper like TTDX :/
19:30:27 <Rubidium> tss... no-one participates in my quiz :(
19:30:37 <Yexo> did OH come off the ground at all? I've seen a topic about it somewhere at tt-forums
19:30:44 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it isn't a quiz, it is a trap .. and I hate traps
19:30:53 <TrueBrain> well, the site via SF leads to nothing
19:31:04 <TrueBrain> oeh, after 3 redirects, I think I found something
19:31:23 <TrueBrain> 'recent' activity (16 july this year)
19:31:49 <Rubidium> I think that sf has some storage and bandwidth problems
19:32:15 <TrueBrain> can't find anything that relates to any source or VCS
19:32:19 <Xaroth> Rubidium: s/some storage and bandwidth//
19:32:22 <TrueBrain> wonder what the 'open' part means :p
19:32:35 <Rubidium> oh... I read that today
19:33:16 <TrueBrain> oeh, they have a SVN
19:33:21 <TrueBrain> took me a while to find it, but that is back at SF ..
19:33:32 <TrueBrain> good documentation is 90% of the work, but okay
19:33:52 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the open as in "This time it wants open standards to be "balanced" — for them to include patent-encumbered technologies under RAND (reasonable and non-discriminatory) terms"
19:34:35 <Xaroth> I wonder where they got that one from..
19:35:03 <TrueBrain> MSVC only, by the looks
19:35:24 <TrueBrain> (unsigned short const floor)
19:35:48 <TrueBrain> coding style isn't really consistant
19:35:58 <TrueBrain> but overall more readable than DOSBox
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19:36:23 <TrueBrain> good lack of documentation in-code
19:36:26 <Xaroth> did DOSBox actually have coding standards?
19:36:34 <TrueBrain> unreadable piece of shit
19:36:51 <TrueBrain> I stop reading at that point
19:36:54 <TrueBrain> my mind just goes blank
19:37:02 <TrueBrain> I went to a doctor for it, he went blank too
19:37:09 <TrueBrain> so I guess it is not me
19:37:37 <TrueBrain> GLee .. hmm .. GLee isnice
19:38:03 <TrueBrain> don't start about Rorschach please, I read enough of it in the papers
19:38:42 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: and a few lines beloew that blabla + 020 ?
19:38:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no, please no
19:39:03 <TrueBrain> when I would read that, I would start writing a big flame mail
19:39:07 <TrueBrain> in open letter form or what ever
19:39:28 <TrueBrain> as then I believe it contains code that sneaks secret info to them
19:40:04 <Aali> don't forget blabla + 10000b
19:41:08 <TrueBrain> I was about to put you in the same group as Ammler
19:41:10 <TrueBrain> which can't be a good thing :)
19:41:11 <Rubidium> Aali: blabla + 10000b isn't obscure
19:41:20 <planetmaker> I've the strong feeling that one person doesn't make sense here :-)
19:41:22 <TrueBrain> (/me gniffels, sorry Ammler, I won't keep bringing it up ;))
19:41:31 <Aali> Rubidium: and blabla + 16 is?
19:41:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that person itself, or what he/she says? :)
19:41:43 <Rubidium> Aali: no, blabla + 020 is
19:41:47 <TrueBrain> (the first slightly more disturbing?)
19:41:56 <Xaroth> blabla + 0x10; \n \n blabla + 16;
19:41:57 <planetmaker> haha :-) I guess I should have said "The words of..."
19:42:12 <Xaroth> first you add a hexadecimal, afterwards you add a decimal
19:42:18 <planetmaker> Before that I'll do +0x30 * 100b
19:42:45 <Aali> Rubidium: good for you, I didn't know we were holding an obscurity contest
19:42:56 <TrueBrain> Aali: you should have read the conversation :)
19:43:11 <TrueBrain> in general a good idea :p
19:43:47 <TrueBrain> I LOVE MY SUBWOOFER!
19:43:55 <TrueBrain> just .. my stuff tend to fall off my desk now :s
19:44:12 * Rubidium wonders whether his neighbours feel the same love
19:44:21 <TrueBrain> who knew, that 9 crimes would had such a deep bassline ...
19:44:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: they don't. I confirmed that already.
19:44:39 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: play some tool
19:44:47 <TrueBrain> when I started Red Faction (on the xbox360), they came looking wondering what the fuck was going on :p
19:44:57 <Xaroth> Lost keys has a nice annoying tone during the ENTIRE song that pisses off most people :P
19:45:11 <Aali> TrueBrain: I did, but again, I seem to have missed the point where it turns into an obscurity contest
19:45:39 <TrueBrain> I guess it has to do that I know Rubidium slightly longer ;)
19:45:44 <LadyHawk> TrueBrain, which 'group' is Ammler in and what are the requirements to get in?
19:45:59 <Xaroth> 'spekul people' and 'being insane' ?
19:46:09 <Aali> I guess I should just get back to work
19:46:26 <Belugas> that's what i'm telling myself about every 10 minutes
19:47:19 <TrueBrain> [Sun Aug 2 2009] [18:00:33] <OsteHovel^Atom> Im so stupid sometimes
19:47:20 <TrueBrain> [Sun Aug 2 2009] [18:04:53] <Ammler> and you aren't alone :-)
19:47:22 <TrueBrain> [Sun Aug 2 2009] [18:05:33] <TrueBrain> Ammler: you feel yourself included in that group of stupid people? :)
19:47:23 <TrueBrain> [Sun Aug 2 2009] [18:05:45] <Ammler> yes, very much.
19:47:25 <TrueBrain> [Sun Aug 2 2009] [18:06:00] <Ammler> well "sometimes"
19:47:26 <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: nuff said?
19:47:32 <TrueBrain> Aali / Belugas: I gave up trying to tell myself
19:48:23 <TrueBrain> and I am teesing him with it all day .. I tihnk I should stop doing that :)
19:49:30 <LadyHawk> would you be able to? =P
19:49:41 <TrueBrain> I no longer kick yorick every time I see him
19:49:57 <planetmaker> hehe. People grow up
19:50:10 <LadyHawk> i wouldn't go that far
19:50:24 <planetmaker> yeah. But the far and remote places are the most lovely.
19:50:39 <planetmaker> the beaten track is for the plebs.
19:52:17 <Rubidium> Aali: didn't the dosbox of TrueBrain imply that it was about obscurity?
19:53:15 <TrueBrain> I Guess the answer is: no
19:53:22 <TrueBrain> but that might be obvious ;)
19:58:53 <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: entertain us
20:00:05 <TrueBrain> Yexo: your translation is now also very inconsistent
20:00:49 <TrueBrain> "{BLACK}Centreer het scherm op vliegtuiglocatie" vs "{BLACK}Centreer het scherm op de locatie van de industrie"
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20:01:40 <Yexo> the industri one is inconsitent,not mine
20:01:45 <Yexo> but thanks for noticing :)
20:01:51 <TrueBrain> they are consistent with the other depots
20:01:57 <LadyHawk> 'vliegtuiglocatie' is supposed to be 2 words?
20:02:00 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I would say, it is about 50 / 50 now :p
20:02:05 <TrueBrain> yeah, I also doubt about that word
20:02:11 <TrueBrain> why not: 'locatie van vliegtuig'
20:02:17 <TrueBrain> or 'de locatie van het vlieguig'
20:02:31 <TrueBrain> for all I care .. to make it both AB(N) Dutch and readable :p
20:02:35 <LadyHawk> even 'vliegtuig locatie' would do, to keep it short
20:02:38 <Yexo> I think that would be better, but it was easier to change just that one string this way :)
20:02:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r17058 /trunk/src/ (company_base.h company_type.h economy.cpp graph_gui.cpp):
20:02:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: magic numbers removal.
20:02:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Two values used intead of just one, as it gives more possibilities to those who dare...
20:02:54 <Alberth> LadyHawk: 'vliegtuiglokatie'
20:02:59 <TrueBrain> Yexo: so for once, I am going to make a change to WT3 language :p
20:03:10 <TrueBrain> lokatie over locatie .. hehe ;)
20:03:26 <LadyHawk> ah sorry if my spelling's a bit off, been living in england for 5+ years
20:03:40 <Alberth> LadyHawk: no, one word, Dutch doesn't insert spaces
20:03:47 <TrueBrain> Alberth: is that really a word?
20:03:50 <LadyHawk> 'vliegtuiglocatie' isn't a word
20:03:53 <TrueBrain> it reads like crap, that for sure
20:04:02 <TrueBrain> and we are not Germans .. so we don't do that shit :p
20:04:04 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttd
20:04:14 <Alberth> I agree that it looks crap
20:04:15 <DJNekkid> can anyone of you know or can guess how much (lets say in %) of the power a TGV (for example) use at cruising speed?
20:04:25 <TrueBrain> DJNekkid: I guess .. 22.323125%
20:04:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:04:38 <DJNekkid> im just wondering...
20:04:45 <TrueBrain> then why you ask us to guess :(
20:04:47 <DJNekkid> trying to calculate how much power it use per year
20:04:59 <Yexo> the dutch translation is bad
20:05:03 <DJNekkid> calculated/qualified guess can
20:05:08 <TrueBrain> Lokatie is wrong btw, it is locatie (vandale.nl)
20:05:30 <LadyHawk> does 'vliegtuiglocatie' translate as a word?
20:05:51 <TrueBrain> Yexo: can you look at STR_TOWN_VIEW_CENTER_TOOLTIP for me?
20:05:56 <TrueBrain> ('stad', 'plaats' stuff)
20:06:16 <TrueBrain> 'van de plaats' sounds weird, so I made it 'stad', but I am not sure that is consistent :p
20:06:30 <LadyHawk> which tooltip is that?
20:06:51 <Yexo> I still need to go over all plaats/dorp/stad strings to make them consistent
20:06:55 <TrueBrain> Yexo: weird enough I am undoing habell's work of a few revisions ago :s
20:06:59 <Yexo> so for now, any one of them is ok
20:07:34 <Yexo> the previous translation was indeed better :)
20:07:59 <TrueBrain> I only made 'dit schip' naar 'het schip'
20:08:34 <Yexo> but he also did s/hoofdbeeld/het scherm/, I hope you're not undoing that too?
20:08:43 <TrueBrain> nope, in fact, doing the ones he forgot
20:09:02 <TrueBrain> 'trein depot' vs 'schipdepot'
20:09:26 <LadyHawk> hoofdbeeld = statue yeh
20:10:00 <TrueBrain> "wegvoertuigdepot locatie" <- que? :)
20:10:09 <TrueBrain> wegvoertuigdepot? What kind of German dialect is that?
20:10:11 <LadyHawk> eh, that isn't right
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20:10:29 <LadyHawk> but it's trying to be 'road depot' which would be 'garage' in my opinion
20:10:31 <Yexo> I can't think of a better translation for road depot
20:10:55 <LadyHawk> that might be a bit clearer yeah
20:11:05 <TrueBrain> shall we translate all 'depot' to 'garage', or is that too much?
20:11:13 <Yexo> the "auto" part doesn't sound right to me
20:11:17 <TrueBrain> Yexo: yes, instead of 'wegvoertuigdepot' :p
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20:11:41 <Yexo> it's definitely an improvement, but why not just "garage"?
20:11:50 <TrueBrain> what to do with the other 'depot's?
20:11:55 <LadyHawk> train depot wouldn't be a 'garage'
20:12:14 <Yexo> for planes it's just hangar
20:18:03 <TrueBrain> that only leaves 'treindepot'
20:18:36 <LadyHawk> i can't remember what they're called
20:19:34 <LadyHawk> that's 2 words though
20:21:25 <TrueBrain> STR_DEPOT_ROAD_VEHICLE_CAPTION has "Bouw" in dutch .. while I don't see anything in the english which suggests that :s
20:21:26 <Yexo> rangeerstation ? Not really correct, but it might do
20:21:45 <TrueBrain> 'Scheepswerf' is used for 'dok'
20:21:53 <Yexo> Alberth: that's for busses / trams
20:22:18 <TrueBrain> I also need something for tramdepot :p
20:22:42 <Yexo> busremise / tramremise :p
20:23:04 <Alberth> 'Scheepswerf' is for building ships, 'dok' also tends in that direction, but is more general imho.
20:23:25 <Yexo> yes, but the dock in openttd is mainly for building ships
20:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but "Straßenbahndepot" is very valid in german
20:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dock" is more like the ship-station, the ship-depot should be a "Werft"
20:24:36 <frosch123> s/Werft/Trockendock/
20:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really dry ;)
20:24:56 <frosch123> "Werft" is only for new ships
20:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the fish-heads should discuss that ;)
20:25:46 <TrueBrain> "vliegtuig hangar" .. lets call it just 'hangar'
20:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> something's awfully wrong today... my mouse totally misbehaves
20:27:12 <Alberth> my dictionary says "hangar" -> "(vliegtuig)loods"
20:28:01 <TrueBrain> english.txt weirdness (maybe you know Rubidium):
20:28:03 <TrueBrain> STR_BUILD_DEPOT_TRAIN_ORIENTATION
20:28:06 <TrueBrain> STR_BUILD_DEPOT_ROAD_ORIENTATION
20:28:11 <TrueBrain> The first says: {BLACK}Select railway depot orientation
20:28:18 <TrueBrain> The second: {WHITE}Road Depot Orientation
20:28:24 <TrueBrain> colours are different, text is different ..
20:28:26 <TrueBrain> what is going on there?
20:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and something else is totally wrong... my chat is full of dutch words
20:30:09 <TrueBrain> damn, sometimes WT3 just 'hangs' :(
20:30:14 <Alberth> the bad influence of your mouse seems to spread over the Internet !
20:31:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: have you seen the "Dutchmen: Help translating" thread?
20:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not watched the forum lately
20:32:20 <Yexo> TrueBrain: STR_BUILD_DEPOT_ROAD_ORIENTATION <- that one is a window title
20:32:23 <frosch123> watch out, the thread might be opened :o
20:32:43 <Yexo> why use the forum? We'll just take over irc :p
20:32:47 <TrueBrain> Yexo: what ever it is, the key is inconsistant and should be fixed ;)
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20:33:51 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I marked 4 strings which miss 'Ctrl+Click' translation
20:33:53 <TrueBrain> can you take a look at those?
20:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate true blood
20:33:57 <TrueBrain> and please validate my translations :)
20:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it always takes forever to download
20:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: the problem with devs doing translations is that it takes away dev-time ;)
20:34:45 <TrueBrain> Yexo: "{ORANGE}Op weg naar {TOWN} Garage" <- reads a bit silly
20:34:54 <TrueBrain> maybe: {TOWN}'s garage
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20:36:14 <Yexo> "Ctrl+klik voor alleen onderhoud"?
20:38:14 <TrueBrain> pff .. so many small inconsistancies :(
20:38:47 <Belugas> speaking of series, anyone watch the first two shows of Defying Gravity yesterday?
20:39:07 <Belugas> i found it interesting and almost intriguing
20:39:13 <TrueBrain> I read about it, dismissed it
20:39:34 <Belugas> i'm a sci-fie freak, take note...
20:40:10 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I now also notice WT3.1 would need something better for searches :p
20:40:44 <TrueBrain> nobody said it was legal
20:41:45 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I _think_ I have all isntances of 'depot'
20:41:51 <TrueBrain> I left 'tramdepot' and 'treindepot' for now
20:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's also in my queue now
20:41:58 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
20:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> can only be days :p
20:42:08 <TrueBrain> I already downlaoded it ;)
20:42:15 <Yexo> ok, then I'll go over your changes now :)
20:42:24 <TrueBrain> Yexo: k, then I won't change anything for a moment :)
20:42:41 <TrueBrain> Yexo: the only thing I find tricky, is capitals
20:42:48 <Belugas> i can't believe it... it's brand new...
20:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: my bandwidth is already saturated for days...
20:42:52 <TrueBrain> will that be "Stuur naar hangar" or "Stuur naar Hangar"
20:42:59 <Belugas> the internet... what a big surprise!
20:43:01 <Yexo> I'd translate it without a capital, ie "Stuur naar garage"
20:43:07 <TrueBrain> then I made a few mistakes ;)
20:43:18 <TinoDidriksen> Belugas, every new show is ripped and online within an hour of it finishing airing.
20:43:27 <Yexo> but in case of "{TOWN}'s Garage" a capital looks better
20:43:33 <TrueBrain> are we going to do that?
20:43:36 <Belugas> he ben.... well. enjoy then
20:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause> an hour is exaggerated, but on average maybe
20:44:03 <Yexo> 's doesn't always make sence, so we better leave that out
20:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the shortest i ever witnessed was 35 minutes
20:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> some take half a day
20:44:52 <Yexo> Yexo: the problem with devs doing translations is that it takes away dev-time ;) <- Fine someone providing a decent dutch translation and you won't find me translating again
20:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> on days like lost-day, the whole internet is on fire :p
20:46:09 * Belugas prefers to wait until the translated version comes on TV. as for Defying, it was just a matter of luck.
20:46:29 <Yexo> {BLACK}Bouw dok (voor de bouw en onderhoud) <- isn't "voor bouw en onderhoud" (without de) better? or maybe "van schepen" at the end
20:46:39 <TrueBrain> Yexo: well, the old was horrible
20:46:44 <TrueBrain> and I took one that already existed :p
20:46:54 <TrueBrain> "voor bouw en onder van schepen"
20:46:58 <TrueBrain> will do that for all instances
20:47:01 <Belugas> i watched one episode of lost in english. i hated it. they were mumbling beyond understanding
20:47:09 <Yexo> onderhoud please, not onder :p
20:47:31 * Belugas shuts up, you're doing usefull stuff
20:50:41 <Yexo> "Station namen" <- maybe "Stationsnamen"?
20:51:05 <TrueBrain> "Industrie namen" ?
20:51:28 <Yexo> no idea for that, "Industrienamen" doesn't look right
20:52:05 <Yexo> "Geef een lijst van alle wegvoertuigen met huidig garage in hun orders" <- that's not correct either
20:52:12 <TrueBrain> "Stuur naar onderhoud" <- "Stuur voor onderhoud" better?
20:52:16 <Yexo> "met de huidige garage"?
20:52:51 <Yexo> best would be "Stuur naar (depot/dok/..) voor onderhoud
20:53:19 <Yexo> I prefer "Stuur voor onderhoud" above "Stuur naar onderhoud"
20:53:23 <TrueBrain> "Send for Servicing" is the english
20:53:31 <TrueBrain> so adding 'to depot' is not correct
20:54:03 <Yexo> it's "het treindepot", not "de treindepot", right?
20:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of the time when in a german channel they talked swiss-german and i asked "i must have hit a wrong button, how do i switch the channel to high german again?"
20:54:30 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you want to say something, just say it ;)
20:54:44 <TrueBrain> Yexo: replaced "huidig" met "dit/deze"
20:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i have nothing useful to say ;)
20:55:06 <TrueBrain> oh, I thought you were commenting ;)
20:56:03 <TrueBrain> i sometimes forget the search only searches in the category
20:56:44 <Yexo> the list of "Waiting for commit strings" looks nice, no more comments about that list :)
20:56:52 <TrueBrain> k .. then I will add a few :p
20:57:01 <TrueBrain> "Actie van huidig vliegtuig" <- really .. wtf?
20:57:10 <TrueBrain> "Huidige trein actie" <- sounds better, so maybe use that?
20:57:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: your work of grouping stuff is very useful in translating, you should continue that :)
20:58:19 <Yexo> TrueBrain: what's the original english string?
20:58:30 <TrueBrain> Current ship action
20:59:21 <Yexo> what about "Huidige actie van trein"?
21:00:26 <TrueBrain> "{BLACK}Toon trein orders" <- really .. wtf? This is not Dutch
21:00:48 <TrueBrain> "Laat orders van trein zien" ? " Toon orders van trein"?
21:00:56 <TrueBrain> "Laat treinorders zien"
21:01:00 <TrueBrain> lets take this to a PM Yexo :p
21:01:12 <TrueBrain> (as LadyHawk and Alberth stopped contributing :p)
21:01:49 <LadyHawk> the full dutch verb is 'aantonen'
21:02:10 <Yexo> "tonen" is a full dutch verb
21:03:05 <LadyHawk> that's perfect dutch then.. just looks a bit weird in a menu like that
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21:03:52 <DaleStan> planetmaker: Are install targets traditionally prereq-free?
21:04:41 <planetmaker> good question. I'd make it depend on what needs installing, though :-)
21:06:14 <DaleStan> The patch you gave me has no prereqs. I didn't notice that until just now, when I tried to "make remake install" and remake errorred. But install still attempted to install.
21:06:49 <planetmaker> gcc doesn't seem to have pre-requisites
21:09:41 <planetmaker> DaleStan: I actually wonder why I pasted it without pre-requisite. In all my newgrf makefiles I have it depend on the grf...
21:09:51 <planetmaker> so... depending it on the binary seems sensible
21:11:42 <planetmaker> openttd makes it also depend upon successful bundle creation.
21:17:45 <planetmaker> DaleStan: when you add a pre-requisite, you could at the same time declare it phoney:
21:17:46 <planetmaker> .PHONY: clean all bundle bundle_tar bundle_zip bundle_bzip install release release_zip remake test
21:18:46 <planetmaker> (that's my targets, not necessarily grfcodec's)
21:22:41 <planetmaker> DaleStan: a reason to NOT make it dependent is, though: "make install" is usually called as root. And you don't want root to write in your build dir files you cannot delete
21:24:18 <DaleStan> AIUI, ownership by root doesn't prevent deletion by others.
21:25:04 <planetmaker> usually only the owner has write permission... at least on the systems I use. Of course there's always sudo and chown
21:25:37 <TrueBrain> STR_DEPOT_TRAIN_LIST_TOOLTIP vs STR_DEPOT_ROAD_LIST_TOOLTIP
21:25:40 <TrueBrain> inconsistant in english
21:25:45 <DaleStan> I thought delete was a write operation on the containing directory, not the file.
21:32:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17059 /trunk/src/ (48 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename a few strings to reflect their usage
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21:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what do i do now with a HD that lies outside of the computer and i can't get empty?
21:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm afraid he did not even get that message ;)
22:00:39 <TrueBrain> Yexo and I just corrected 195 dutch sentences ...
22:01:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 16.7538461538
22:01:10 <TrueBrain> @calc 195 / 3267 * 100
22:01:10 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 5.96877869605
22:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a cat... "miau. look, i just caught a mouse."
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