IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-07-30
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03:23:58 <dh2k3> question: where do we add the line wait_oneway_signal 255 at?
03:25:08 <dh2k3> it says to add it under [patches] but when I open the .cfg file it's not listed
03:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> dh2k3: the documentation is probably old
03:27:46 <dh2k3> k so where do we add that line then if the documentation is old?
03:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like in [pf] here
03:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and while at it, update the piece of documentation that your are reading
03:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the [patches] section is obsolete
03:30:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the settings have been split into more meaningful categories
03:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the sun is coming up, i should go to bed
03:31:32 <dh2k3> so in [pf] add that line then?
03:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have run openttd previously, every line should already be there
03:32:52 <dh2k3> now if I play multiplayer will that line work for me or will it apply to the whole server?
03:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be a company setting, but maybe it defaults to the server setting
03:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you should try changing it from the ingame console when you are in a multiplayer game
03:34:27 <dh2k3> that's assuming that I have the rcon pw
03:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need rcon to try to change your own settings
03:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> rcon is for changing server settings
03:35:49 <dh2k3> yes but if I play multiplayer will my setting work or will the servers be the one that's being used?
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03:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i told you to try that exact thing
03:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually play multiplayer
03:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if the server forces the setting, you should get an error message
03:38:04 <Yrol> (dh2k3) you have problems with your server?
03:38:32 <dh2k3> only with oneway as I think servers default to 15 according to the config
03:38:57 <dh2k3> I'm wondering if I play on multiplayer will my 255 setting work or will it default to the servers 15 setting?
03:40:05 <Yrol> (dh2k3) ah, so you dont have any problems, fine.
03:40:50 <dh2k3> just wondering about if a local setting takes presidence over the servers
03:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you could have tried that 10 times by now
03:41:38 <Yrol> i wonder.. shall u get my pliers? to get it out of your nose i mean
03:42:22 <Yrol> right, Eddi|zuHause, if he would be intersted in solving it, he would be more open to help
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03:45:25 <Yrol> and yet, i think, i know, what he wanted to know. 'twas about that waiting x time at a red signal before turning the train around", right?
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07:23:25 <LuciusMare> i built a railway between an iron ore and steel mill
07:23:38 <LuciusMare> then i found that there is a factory and a farm near
07:23:55 <LuciusMare> so i built another one
07:24:13 <LuciusMare> and how do i make it LOAD on the farm,LOAD on the steel mill and then UNLOAD in the factory?
07:24:16 <LuciusMare> just standard goto?
07:25:35 <Yrol> (LuciusMare) as long as it aint the same goods, i guess so.
07:43:02 <Zuu> LuciusMare, If I understand your situation correctly you want to use "full load (any)"
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09:44:17 <Prof_Frink> /me boulders at TrueBrain
09:44:32 * Prof_Frink kicks leading spaces
09:44:55 <TrueBrain> I am not going this week .. really sucks :(
09:45:06 <Prof_Frink> I'm going... to Font.
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09:55:32 <Rubidium> ah, TrueBrain blessed us with his presence... can only mean one thing!
10:01:32 <LuciusMare> i built a bus service between two <2000 cities but i get only 25$for each travel
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10:55:16 <dihedral> such a stupid dev at work
10:55:37 <dihedral> complains that he cannot svn copy to an unversioned folder
10:55:52 <dihedral> or that his commit fails (adding an already existing file)
10:56:04 <dihedral> ... and that he does not understand the error message
10:57:03 <dihedral> or why an svn diff on an unversioned file compares with an empty file.... "but the file does exist on the server".....
10:57:39 <dihedral> i'd say - time for lunch :-P
10:58:04 * TrueBrain writes an email to dihedral's boss
10:58:54 <Forked> "dear dihedral's boss. He needs new co-workers. Signed the OpenTTD team. (PS: We're looking for a job)"
10:59:28 <TrueBrain> yeah, lets all work for dihedral's boss
10:59:31 <TrueBrain> that should make him happy :)
10:59:37 <TrueBrain> or at least .. makes sure he can't wine aboutit here ;)
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11:00:11 <planetmaker> honestly... I think I prefer to work here :-)
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11:04:46 <SirSquidness> I reckon I'd be willing to work for dihedral 's boss if I got paid airfares, given a house to live in away from home, relocation emotional stress allowance, etc, etc
11:05:14 <SirSquidness> can't forget the RDO's to get to know my new area
11:05:15 <Forked> or just have a home office
11:05:29 <SirSquidness> I'm trying to get as much money as possible out of this deal
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11:20:42 <TrueBrain> I hate to be the first rang helpdesk ... stupid user with stupid questions
11:20:48 <TrueBrain> I am glad when my colleges are back ...
11:20:54 <TrueBrain> then they can take over that job again :p
11:21:05 <TrueBrain> if dihedral thinks his devs are stupid .. he should try my phone for a day
11:32:52 <SirSquidness> you get first level tech support? Ooooh... I do not pity you. At all.
11:38:01 <TrueBrain> normally I run third ... which is fine by me
11:38:04 <TrueBrain> but first .. omg ...
11:38:32 <TrueBrain> "what does that icon in front of my list mean?!" - "that means that the email is in your address book"
11:38:41 <TrueBrain> had that question 4 times this week alone :s
11:39:02 <TrueBrain> okay, in all fairness Horde did give it a crappy name .. "personal"
11:39:09 <TrueBrain> stupid name to give it .. but okay .. still ..
11:39:16 <SirSquidness> that's no excuse
11:39:17 <TrueBrain> I never noticed the icon at all till I got the question the first time :p
11:39:53 <SirSquidness> I've never noticed the icon
11:40:02 <SirSquidness> but then again.. I have no idea which program you're talking about :P
11:40:46 <SirSquidness> Never heard of it :P
11:41:05 <TrueBrain> then you are not known with the software in the mail sector :)
11:41:16 <SirSquidness> this is a correct assumption to make.
11:41:30 <TrueBrain> it is the most used webmail :)
11:41:36 <TrueBrain> most ISPs implement it
11:41:49 <SirSquidness> ah, ok, maybe I have used it, but just never noticed it's name
11:41:51 <TrueBrain> some do SquirrelWeb, but that is dying out :)
11:46:19 <TrueBrain> not something any sane ISP should roll out :)
11:46:48 <planetmaker> he. Horde doesn't have too bad an interface
11:47:08 <TrueBrain> just a few weird stuff
11:47:14 <TrueBrain> and: it doesn't tell you when you forwarded a message
11:47:17 <TrueBrain> which always pisses me off
11:47:21 <Prof_Frink> orudge: You're insane.
11:48:05 <planetmaker> Never noticed that, TrueBrain
11:49:17 <planetmaker> but usually I don't care as I use a real mail client
11:53:38 <Rubidium> the lovely ambiguities of English... (real mail) client or real (mail client)
11:53:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and Dutch doesn't have that? :)
11:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> at least in german the declination of the attribute often gives away to which word it belongs to
11:55:50 <TrueBrain> svn.client.log3([str(url).rstrip("/")], rt, rt, rt, 1, True, False, logUrlCallback, client_ctx, pool)
11:55:56 <TrueBrain> lovely, that 'Python SVN library'
11:56:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: not really, in that case at least: post client vs echte e-mailclient
11:56:05 <TrueBrain> this is even better:
11:56:07 <TrueBrain> diff = svn.client.diff([], str(url).rstrip("/"), rt, str(url2).rstrip("/"), rt2, False, False, True, temp, temp, client_ctx, pool)
11:56:22 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: echt mail client
11:56:27 <TrueBrain> dunno .. gives me the same problem
11:56:37 <TrueBrain> echt mail programma
11:56:43 <TrueBrain> might be a better translation :p
11:57:10 <TrueBrain> I guess it will be 'echte' if you mean the other
11:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in that case, "mail" is not used in a german translation of "real mail" :p
11:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it would be "echte Post", "echtes Programm" or "echter Klient"
11:59:16 <TrueBrain> # or thought about me secretly
11:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> where "Post" is female, "Programm" is neutral and "Klient" is male
12:00:00 <TrueBrain> # do I make you wonder at all
12:00:05 <TrueBrain> # about the speed of light
12:00:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so there's no distinction between Firebird/Outlook/KMail and telnet in German? They're all 'echtes Programm' (+plural)
12:00:19 <TrueBrain> (guess the song, ghehehe :p)
12:00:42 <TrueBrain> that name is BANNED!
12:01:10 <TrueBrain> (as I doubt you were refering to the database :p)
12:01:13 <OwenS> TrueBrain: He may have refered to the database :p
12:01:27 <Rubidium> oh, thunderbird then... why must they keep changing names?
12:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: each of them is an "echtes Programm", but all of them together are "echte Programme"
12:01:39 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it is like that for years now :p
12:01:39 <OwenS> Rubidium: The mail client ha sALWAYS been thunderbird
12:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't say _ALL_ cases where distinguishable
12:02:09 <Rubidium> OwenS: I'm just happy with iceweasel and icedove ;)
12:02:20 <OwenS> I'm just happy with Opera :p
12:02:39 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: hasn't much to do with Debian
12:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but this does not apply to this case, as it was clearly referring to "a client"
12:03:02 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the names kind of do :p
12:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm using KMail, not sure if that is making me any kind of happy...
12:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think our university uses squirrelmail
12:04:05 <TrueBrain> and kind of sucky :p
12:04:24 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: no, the reason why the names are different in Debian is that Debian doesn't like to distribute 'non-free' stuff in their 'free' repository. As a result the non-free images are scrubbed from Firefox/Thunderbird, which by license requires them to rename the application. If it isn't the EXACT same source as Firefox, it may not be called Firefox
12:04:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so again I say: stupid Debian, they picked those names
12:04:57 <TrueBrain> it was all Debian, who made up those names
12:05:03 <TrueBrain> so don't tell me it isn't, as it is :)
12:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so they are thunderfox and firebird? :p
12:05:19 <Rubidium> but only because they were forced by mozilla
12:05:29 <TrueBrain> if I force you to rob a bank
12:06:10 <Rubidium> depending on the proof it's quite likely that I would not be jailed and you would
12:06:18 <TrueBrain> so? You still did rob the bank
12:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but the registered name thing is going to be a problem for free software in the future
12:06:37 <TrueBrain> reasoning doesn't take away the act
12:06:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: is going to be? It is for a long time now :)
12:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the problem is only growing to be bigger ;)
12:07:21 <TrueBrain> welcome in the world of exploiting :)
12:07:28 <TrueBrain> Free is rarely as free as one might think :p
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12:58:15 <Fox> got a question about distance and profit calculation. which exact distance is taken?
13:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> manhattan, i believe
13:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> of the two station signs
13:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the topic still says something about the language...
13:07:32 <LuciusMare> <offtopic>What does overgeneralization mean? </offtopic>
13:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that you exaggerate with the generalization
13:08:56 <dihedral> everybody generalizes all the time!
13:08:59 <Rubidium> "a few people in this channel are German, thus all people in this channel are German"
13:09:13 <LuciusMare> i think i understand
13:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> a sociologist, a physichist and a mathmatician go into a foreign country and see two black sheep
13:10:15 <Eddi|zuHause> sociologist: all sheep are black in this country
13:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> physichist: no, you can only say there are two black sheep in this country
13:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> mathmatician: no, you can only say there are two sheep that are black on at least one side in this country
13:11:45 <Rubidium> LuciusMare: they generalised a rule and applied it to other words
13:13:20 <blathijs> TrueBrain: You would rather have had Debian nog ship Firefox at all?
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13:13:46 <TrueBrain> blathijs: you clearly misunderstood my comment as much as Rubidium did :)
13:13:50 <TrueBrain> I just blamed Debian for those names
13:15:08 <blathijs> TrueBrain: You have better suggestions? :-)
13:16:42 <TrueBrain> blathijs: plenty! But they didn't like any of them ... :p
13:19:58 <Fox> is there an easy way to measure distances in game? like a small tool?
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13:53:27 <TrueBrain> I hate talking in a phone
13:55:46 * Rubidium tries to imagine that...
13:58:01 <TrueBrain> weird mind you have Rubidium
14:02:25 <DorpsGek> But I hope that will be fixed after a nice checkup soon
14:02:41 <z-MaTRiX> just having hdd issues with a 400GB samsung
14:02:52 <DorpsGek> Samsung is rubbish anyway
14:03:40 <TrueBrain> blathijs: seagate? You are insane :)
14:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i only ever had problems with seagate
14:04:08 <z-MaTRiX> well actually had seagate gone badsector land
14:04:20 <DorpsGek> did you send a rescue party?
14:04:41 <z-MaTRiX> no, just started to get bad sectors
14:04:52 <DorpsGek> you should send them back to their own country
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14:06:43 <z-MaTRiX> btw samsung hdd worked fine for 1.5 years 24/7 (3year warranty)
14:07:09 <z-MaTRiX> it could do 14000 working hours
14:07:15 <DorpsGek> my HDs always only work 12/5
14:07:18 <DorpsGek> I hate them for that
14:11:25 <LadyHawk> last time i checked on my HD it had a warning saying it's running overhours
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15:16:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16991 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Change: make 'remove waypoint' draggable
15:17:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16992 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_rail.cpp ai_rail.hpp ai_rail.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: function to clear waypoint(s) in a certain rectangle on the map
15:56:45 <Belugas> damned :( i do not have that image of baby birds waiting for mom to feed them...
15:56:59 <Belugas> left it on the other server, i guess
15:57:19 <Belugas> that Rocker boy wold deserve it!
15:57:25 <Rubidium> now we're all going to die :(
15:57:42 <Belugas> naaaa... it came from the web, it shall be found on the web!
15:58:24 <Rubidium> hmm, based on that: TrueBrain, Supernova was wrong in the beginning because a formula was incorrect so all further calculations were wrong too ;)
15:59:58 <Rubidium> more wrong formulae I guess
16:00:19 <TrueBrain> sometimes it looks like you had a complete conversation in your head
16:00:21 <TrueBrain> and forgot to tell us
16:00:44 <Rubidium> oh, no... the "now we're all going to die"
16:00:58 <Rubidium> was a quote from that same piece of fiction
16:01:33 <TrueBrain> I think Rubidium is losing it ...
16:01:44 <Rubidium> I've lost it long ago
16:01:58 <Belugas> that's why he's among the devs...
16:02:03 <TrueBrain> but it rapidly is growing worse :)
16:02:27 <Belugas> look who is talking ;)
16:02:40 <TrueBrain> Belugas: I am pretty stable for the past few years :p
16:02:50 <TrueBrain> it was never any good in the first place ;)
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16:19:56 * Rubidium thinks Belugas found the link
16:20:49 <Belugas> not exactly the same, but pretty close :D
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17:24:24 <DPyro> anyone know how i can get the loading percents back?
17:42:24 <Belugas> arghh... Terkhen, Tekky... i'm all confused now... :S
17:44:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16993 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Change: make the rail waypoint builder draggable
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17:44:58 <Rubidium> Belugas: Tekky__, Tekky_, Tekky ... now that's confusing
17:45:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and all another IP ;)
17:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16994 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 3 changes by Gavin
17:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
17:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by Roujin
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 7 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:55 <Belugas> indeed Rubidium, indeed...
17:47:20 <Belugas> taht reminds me of something i loved doing when been bored by my work...
17:47:44 *** Tekky_ was kicked by Belugas (you're one too much!)
17:50:10 * frosch123 is always happen when wondering about Wednesday/Thursday results in Thursday
17:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence does not parse...
17:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that part i did figure out ;)
17:52:48 *** Tekky__ was kicked by Belugas (not needed anymore)
17:53:00 <Rubidium> so it's dinner time I reckon ;)
17:53:53 <frosch123> well, Thursday evening is always better than Wednesday evening
17:54:11 <Belugas> what is even more pleasant is... saturday morning
17:54:41 <frosch123> don't know, then I am always asleep
17:54:56 <Belugas> you don't have a kid yet :)
17:55:07 <Belugas> VERY hard to sleep on a saturday morning ;)
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18:22:30 <TMS> I want to run a server, text only, if I don't have X installed on a Linux box can I still run a dedicated server?
18:23:14 <TrueBrain> (you could also just have tried ... :p)
18:23:47 <TMS> well, I'm about to install Debian on an old machine for a server box I plan on using
18:24:02 <TMS> so I just wanted to know if I really need to install X just to run a dedicated server
18:25:10 <TrueBrain> you really don't need to :)
18:25:28 <TMS> ...will it run in the background or hog the command line
18:25:39 <TrueBrain> depends how you start it :)
18:25:53 <Belugas> usually, at the count of 3
18:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> http://erdgeist.org/Fax200907301505242.pdf <- my dutch is a little rusty, this appears to say that thepiratebay has to pay 30.000EUR for each day they are running a tracker service in 3.3, but i can't figure out what the other points say
18:26:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: lol :) Let me read ...
18:26:23 <OwenS> In a push I may install the X clients, but not the server on a server
18:27:41 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 1.3 says that because they didn't give their 'counter arguments' in a valid format, it is denied
18:27:50 <TrueBrain> like they should be instant knowers of Dutch law or what ever ..
18:28:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: well, it's simple... you don't come to the hearing, you haven't given counter arguments
18:29:02 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, you can do it on writing
18:29:02 <Rubidium> ofcourse going to a hearing when detained abroad is somewhat difficult...
18:29:08 <TrueBrain> but they failed to do that in the correct format, so to say
18:29:16 <TrueBrain> this is just stupid
18:29:28 <TrueBrain> really .. stupid .. is that how we treat people from other nations :s
18:29:31 <TrueBrain> but okay .. reading on ...
18:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why would they come to the hearing if they haven't been notified properly?
18:30:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, the writing which says that, is not accepted in court
18:30:10 <TrueBrain> as it was not written in a way (or date, for that matter), that is accepted by dutch law
18:30:37 <TrueBrain> LOL! Counter-argument of BREIN: we did sent them an email
18:30:39 <TrueBrain> so they did know about it
18:31:01 <TrueBrain> TPB mistake: they once did reply on an email to the same address
18:31:45 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's like me sending you a letter now, getting a reply and when you've moved sending it again means that you've received it
18:31:55 <OwenS> This court case sounds like the time a US court ordered Spamahus to pay a company something like $1mil. Spamhaus haven't paid it and never turned up in court - the ydon't operate in the US...
18:32:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, 2.4 goes on telling BREIN really did attempt to send them the message
18:32:05 <TrueBrain> and they did receive it
18:32:38 <TrueBrain> so I have to say: TPB fucked up
18:33:16 <TrueBrain> 2.5 says that the court is right and they find the verdict valid (really? What a suprise :p)
18:34:03 <OwenS> Question is; Are TPB bound by said verdict at all?
18:34:11 <TrueBrain> OwenS: by EU laws .. possible
18:34:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: they have 30 days to make sure TPB is not reachable from The Netherlands
18:34:53 <TrueBrain> after that, 30.000 euro per day, with a max of 3M
18:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> they would need cooperation of swedish authorities to enforce the verdict, probably
18:35:24 <TrueBrain> 3.4 talks about 2 months
18:35:29 <OwenS> And, question: How much is €30k relative to their income? :p
18:35:34 <TrueBrain> they can block the IPs on AS leel
18:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or either of them stepping a foot into the netherlands ;)
18:35:48 <TrueBrain> oh, wait, 30 days is 10 days
18:35:54 <TrueBrain> so 3.2 says within 10 days, 3.4 says within 2 months
18:36:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: EU countries .. they do not need to enter our country ..
18:36:28 <TrueBrain> that only goes for US and stuff :p
18:36:41 <Rubidium> so now... lets sue Google, Microsoft, Yahoo et al.
18:36:46 <TrueBrain> btw, they have to pay 42762 euro, processing costs
18:37:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, when they forget to sent a lawyer, they will have the same problem :p
18:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i got that, but what about the 61k they talk about earlier in that paragraph?
18:37:21 <TrueBrain> all with all, it is complete bullshit
18:37:26 <TrueBrain> because some lameass county sues you
18:37:32 <TrueBrain> you have to go there and/or be represented
18:37:37 <TrueBrain> and if not, you have to pay N money
18:37:37 <Rubidium> and if TPB is illegal with linking to torrents, then any search engine must too
18:37:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: two mixing signals again
18:37:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: one page says they have to pay 61k, the other 42k ...
18:38:03 <OwenS> In other words, it's been a kangaroo court :p
18:38:17 <TMS> The Pirate Bay is two different things.
18:38:21 <TMS> A tracker and a search engine.
18:38:23 <TrueBrain> OwenS: by the lack of counter-arguments, it was just said: BREIN, you are right
18:38:30 <TMS> The tracker may not necessarily be "legal"
18:38:35 <TMS> But the search engine surely must be.
18:38:39 <TrueBrain> TMS: they have to stop their Tracker
18:38:51 <TMS> Really? To all Dutch citizens?
18:39:01 <TrueBrain> so either read the verdict, or shut up :)
18:39:04 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Which makes me think their legal council is of the opinion the agreement can't reach them
18:39:18 <TrueBrain> OwenS: do they really have legal council?
18:39:23 <TrueBrain> I dunno .. I once got sued by the UK
18:39:27 <TrueBrain> I just told them to fuck off
18:39:32 <TrueBrain> I mean .. what would your reaction be?
18:39:46 <OwenS> If sued by the UK? I'd be ratherp issed off at my own country :p
18:39:49 <OwenS> Didn't they just sell TPB anyway?
18:39:51 <TrueBrain> it was not till I received an official imprinted envolope with the demands again, I agree'd ;)
18:39:59 <TrueBrain> I live in the NL ;)
18:40:04 <TrueBrain> nope, sell is on a stall
18:40:10 <TrueBrain> would you buy a company that is sued by all countries in the world?
18:40:14 <TrueBrain> US is also preparing ..
18:40:18 <TrueBrain> they see money .. they all run
18:40:32 <OwenS> This is going to be FUN :p
18:40:43 <TrueBrain> this verdict is just insane
18:40:57 * TrueBrain launches his proxy to give people TPB access via other countries :p
18:41:10 <OwenS> Then again... I imagine that even if the owners get sued into oblivion, TPB will go on
18:41:18 <OwenS> PRQ (their hosts) have been sued for worse
18:41:21 <TrueBrain> TPB is not a legal person
18:41:25 <TrueBrain> they are those 3 people
18:41:41 <TrueBrain> they should have made it a legal person long ago
18:41:45 <TrueBrain> would be much easier :p
18:41:58 <OwenS> PRQ are under attack from governments for hosting Wikileaks all the time :p
18:42:18 <TrueBrain> I hosted nintendo8.com for a long time ... you don't want to know the facny letters I received
18:42:23 <TrueBrain> you all give them the same reply: FUCK OFF
18:43:03 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is the dutch law ... you don't come? You don't get
18:44:11 <TrueBrain> the verdict btw very clearly says they did know about the sue
18:44:18 <TrueBrain> in fact .. most talk is about that :p
18:44:40 <TrueBrain> but okay .. very weird situation .. I didn't know you could be sued outside your own country within the EU .. just insane ..
18:44:51 <Rubidium> now... to find a piece of Open Source that is heavily used by the Dutch government... and only release fixes via TPB :)
18:44:53 <Xaroth> they weren't rightfully sued
18:45:12 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: they are by dutch law, that is the insane part I guess :)
18:45:16 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I agree :) I know a few ...
18:45:20 <TrueBrain> well, not open source, but still :p
18:45:25 <OwenS> TrueBrain: You can be sued from anywhere in the world in which you operate. Whether that can reach you or not is the important part
18:45:41 <TrueBrain> but what I meant, is that I thought the EU made rules for that
18:45:44 <TrueBrain> which unified such shit
18:45:47 <Xaroth> one of their arguments was that because a 'known TPB' ip watched the page they made stating they were sueing, they were informed
18:45:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sounds like OwenS suggest closing openttd.org for anything not Dutch?
18:45:57 <TrueBrain> clearly ... it is not .. and some crazy ass dutch court agrees with it :s
18:45:59 <Xaroth> which is against another dutch law that states that you can't tie an IP address to a person
18:46:09 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: no, read the verdict
18:46:12 <TrueBrain> BREIN really did a lot
18:46:30 <Xaroth> nothing with signed proof
18:46:30 <TrueBrain> what you name is one of the many things
18:46:38 <TrueBrain> the carriers they sent arrived and handed over the papers
18:46:45 <TrueBrain> (which by dutch law is sufficient)
18:46:58 <Xaroth> they failed to mention to whom they handed it over
18:47:07 <TrueBrain> it was a signed thingy
18:47:14 <TrueBrain> so either the post office fucked up 3 times
18:47:45 <TrueBrain> I mean: their lawyers received the papers, they did (all 3), they received email, they received http address ..
18:47:56 <TrueBrain> what more could BREIN do? So that part is not so strange, in my opinion
18:48:18 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: visit them personally in jail (like the US system)
18:48:41 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I think the "struisvogelpolitiek" of: WE DIDN"T RECEIVE IT, only holds for so long
18:48:42 <Xaroth> " Uit de door eiseres overlegde producties kan echter niet worden geconcludeerd dat bij de betekening van de dagvaarding van gedaagden in Zweden is voldaan aan het bepaalde in artikel 7 lid 1 <something>"
18:49:33 <Xaroth> ... Eiseres heeft verder geprobeerd de dagvaardingen van gedaagden restreeks door een Zweedse deurwaarder te laten betekenen. Dit is niet gelukt
18:49:47 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: that was prior to the sue
18:50:03 <TrueBrain> final paragraph of 2.4
18:50:09 <Xaroth> yes, but as mentioned, they didn't follow the letter of the law
18:50:17 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: no, BREIN first tried something else
18:50:59 <Xaroth> 2.4 states they are ignoring the regulations because BREIN convinced the court they did sufficiently to inform them
18:51:55 <Xaroth> both parties aren't lying, and both are
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18:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what i am missing is something about the evidence presented that TPB actually did something illegal
18:52:06 <TrueBrain> "Dat gedaagden aan de media te kennen hebben gegeven niet op de hogote te zijn van een rechtzaak jegens hen in NEderland is in het licht van vorenstaande niet aannemelijk"
18:52:08 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: says it all :)
18:52:22 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the verdict isn't really about that
18:52:30 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I think that is because swedish court did that :p
18:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: in a non-finalized intermediate judgement?
18:53:04 <Xaroth> TB: that section is as quoted by BREIN, accepted by the court
18:53:18 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: we read things very differently
18:53:24 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, court said BREIN did enough to reach them
18:53:30 <TrueBrain> and if I read this, I have to agree with them
18:53:34 <TrueBrain> that is all that matters, I think
18:53:52 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: there is never a reference that it is a quote from BREIN in any way
18:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but reaching the defendant is not the only thing that matters when suing someone
18:54:10 <Rubidium> ah well, it's only giving TPB more media attention (and thus followers) and like DRM there is always a way around it...
18:54:15 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 2.5 says that the court things the request is not illegal or ungrounded, and granted it
18:54:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it kind of is :)
18:54:32 <TrueBrain> things = thinks, oops :)
18:54:41 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: You don't have to proove your right if your oponent doesn't come to defend themself
18:54:56 <Xaroth> TB: I doubt brein did everything they could to contact them
18:54:59 <TrueBrain> "Vertek verleent", but I fail to translate :)
18:55:08 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: don't you agree they tried enough?
18:55:13 <TrueBrain> 4 different communication methods?
18:55:26 <TrueBrain> really .. TPB just acted stupid, hoping they could duck the sue
18:55:29 <Xaroth> of which 3 not adopted by law? :P
18:55:31 <TrueBrain> but that is jsut stupid ...
18:55:42 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: 1 is enough, not? The other 3 are not mroe than polite ...
18:56:09 <TrueBrain> okay, lets ask the question differently: what should BREIN have done to make it clear to TPB that they were being sued?
18:56:14 <Xaroth> The reason they aren't adopted by law is because there is no personal verification that the receiving end is, in fact, the accused
18:56:33 <Xaroth> use the other option, by newspaper
18:56:42 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: send someone IN PERSON to them with proof that they were notified of the fact
18:56:55 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: that did happen .. then they complained
18:56:58 <TrueBrain> still leaving plenty of time
18:57:08 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hehe :) we call those couriers ;)
18:57:10 <Rubidium> e.g. a civil law notary
18:57:24 <TrueBrain> but yeah, that would have been an option :)
18:57:38 <Xaroth> brein was smart in this
18:57:45 <Xaroth> by doing -just- enough to get the court's approval
18:57:45 <planetmaker> "Das Problem (sind) (...)die "etablierten" Mißstände vor allem in der Denkweise der NewGRF-Autoren (bzgl. Basecosts und Ressource-Management)die jetzt inetwa so reagieren wie die Kirche auf den Buchdruck" <--- very nice one, Eddi|zuHause
18:57:50 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I've more than on one occasion signed for those couriers when the letter wasn't for me
18:57:55 <Xaroth> they basically got a fight with no contestants
18:57:57 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: well, TPB fucked up because they replied to one of the emails send to them .. that was just stupid
18:57:58 <planetmaker> I like the wording :-P
18:58:30 <Rubidium> besides that, the NEVER asked for proof that I was the addressee
18:58:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, those couriers are slightly different .. in our country anyway :)
18:59:00 <TrueBrain> when they come to give you such paper .. nobody else can sign for it :)
18:59:07 <Xaroth> court couriers ask for personal identification
18:59:07 <TrueBrain> we tried .. you will fail :)
18:59:32 <Rubidium> guess they're different in 'the west' ;)
18:59:35 <TrueBrain> (as said, I once got sued, I had to come there to sign for the paper, as they refused to hand over to my mother :p)
18:59:59 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: did you have to prove you were the addressee?
19:00:02 <TrueBrain> (well in fact both persons knew eachother and she knew darn well I as her son :))
19:00:38 <TrueBrain> darn, it is annoying the PDF of Eddi|zuHause is not horizontal
19:00:41 <TrueBrain> I start to look weird :p
19:00:59 <Xaroth> TB: It still sucks what the court ruled
19:01:07 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: well, they didn't rule anything really
19:01:12 <TrueBrain> it was more like: we have a complaint
19:01:15 <TrueBrain> we don't have a counter
19:01:19 <TrueBrain> so .. we have to grant to complaint
19:01:47 <TrueBrain> but yes, it is stupid and insane that they got sued here in the first place
19:01:53 <TrueBrain> does every coutnry start doing that now?!
19:01:55 <OwenS> TrueBrain: How would they prove who you were if you lacked a passport? :p
19:01:59 <Xaroth> yeh, but still, first step of censorship :P
19:02:11 <TrueBrain> OwenS: in The Netherlands you need to have a valid identification at all times
19:02:11 <Xaroth> OwenS: all dutch citizens have to have personal identification :)
19:02:13 <TrueBrain> even on the streets :)
19:02:22 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: that for sure is true
19:02:31 <TrueBrain> and that alone would most likely have been enough to win the sue
19:02:37 <OwenS> Cause currently I posess neither passport or driving license
19:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <Xaroth> OwenS: all dutch citizens have to have personal identification :) <- that usually means you have to own one, but not that you have to carry it with you at all times
19:02:51 <TrueBrain> OwenS: in this country, you in such case are not allowed to go on the streets
19:02:53 <Xaroth> OwenS: don't go to holland :P
19:03:01 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: when on the street, you do.
19:03:02 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: here it does :)
19:03:10 <TrueBrain> well, every person above the age of 16
19:03:15 <Xaroth> You can get fined if you do not
19:03:16 <TrueBrain> since 2 years orso?
19:03:27 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: even arrested till they are sure you are you :)
19:03:40 <OwenS> Xaroth: I can't go to Holland with no passport anyway :p
19:03:42 <Xaroth> though police officers don't have any direct means of checking if you have it with you unless they suspect anything
19:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what when you are 15 but look like 18 to the police?
19:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you are 18 and tell them you are 15?
19:04:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: go ask them
19:04:09 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: 1) you have to get your parents to prove you're 15.
19:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: they are in australia for another two weeks?
19:04:40 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: guardian/custodian
19:04:40 <_ln> btw.... ain't it nice that Camping Zeeburg at Amsterdam wants your passport for themselves until you check out.
19:04:45 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: who cares; by law we have to carry identification, all that matters
19:04:55 <Xaroth> _ln: then you can direct the police to the camping :)
19:05:24 <TrueBrain> (I don't carry identification most of the time, but .. that is a completely different story
19:05:44 <_ln> Xaroth: not sure if that's an acceptable solution.
19:05:51 <TrueBrain> I mean .. I am not going to a dance with my passport :s
19:06:03 <TrueBrain> _ln: the police are not bullies
19:06:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the real question is: was the person asking you for identification a civil servant (ambtenaar)?
19:06:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it came from the UK, so no
19:06:29 <Xaroth> downside is though, you'll probably get escorted to the camping... :P
19:06:39 <Rubidium> then you weren't, by law at least, obligated to identify yourself
19:06:56 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and they aren't, by law at least, obligated to give me the thingy in that case
19:07:11 <TrueBrain> but as the next step is a police arrest
19:07:15 <Rubidium> and then you haven't received it
19:07:17 <TrueBrain> I think it is better to go with the identification
19:08:01 <TrueBrain> (when you don't accept the sue, it goes back to UK, they then start the international law thingy, and a month later orso the police comes to hand you over the same sue ... just identify yourself)
19:08:07 <_ln> TrueBrain: is a driving license enough for identification for a) you, b) a foreign citizen?
19:08:16 <TrueBrain> (as in the latter case you most likely don't get away with: okay, I will remove it)
19:08:23 <TrueBrain> _ln: for me, yes, for you, no
19:08:30 <TrueBrain> (but police is known to accept it)
19:09:02 <TrueBrain> driving license is not a valid EU document
19:09:13 <TrueBrain> passport and the other thingy we have here are
19:09:23 <TrueBrain> okay: MY driving license is not a valid EU document
19:09:30 <planetmaker> I thought they standardized driving licenses...
19:09:42 <TrueBrain> I don't know about those new thingies
19:09:55 <TrueBrain> if they are EU documents, it is printed on them
19:09:57 <planetmaker> well... even 14 years ago, they were standardized within EU. Just differently.
19:09:58 <OwenS> Incidentally, Euros contain Europium
19:10:18 <planetmaker> I still have this funky pink license...
19:10:21 <Xaroth> My driving license sais "Model van de Europese Gemeenschappen" .. Model of the European Communities?
19:10:24 <_ln> planetmaker: driving license doesn't say a thing about citizenship, that's why it's not a valid document abroad.
19:10:31 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: one thing I learnt really fast: don't fuck with people who try to sue you: you will lose!
19:10:34 <Xaroth> and i think it does count as a EU-standard identification
19:10:45 <Xaroth> the old paper one doesn't
19:10:45 <planetmaker> _ln, that it doesn't, true.
19:11:27 <planetmaker> Xaroth, the old paper one tells the sam,e though :-)
19:12:05 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: your driving license doesn't even hold in some situations
19:12:14 <TrueBrain> every Dutch citizen sitll needs to have either ID or passport
19:12:22 <OwenS> Incidentally, Sweden is legally obligated to adopt the Euro
19:12:57 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: officially, yes.. but i've yet to see somebody to not allow my drivers license :P
19:13:07 <TrueBrain> try at a police station
19:13:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i always have my ID with me
19:13:20 <OwenS> All countries which joined the EU after a certain date are legally required to adopt the Euro. Sweden has a defacto opt-out though because they joined after said opt-outs were given
19:13:25 <TrueBrain> taxes, also requires Passport or ID
19:13:37 <Xaroth> I.. have somebody else do my taxes :P
19:14:12 <TrueBrain> but that given, I doubt it is a valid EU document :p
19:14:19 <planetmaker> OwenS, but... the monetary union not a compulsory part as far as I understood.
19:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> britain has more opt-outs than sweden could ever take
19:15:00 <OwenS> PM: It's compulsory for all countries joining after a certain date and as such applies to Sweden. They still have a defacto opt-out though (And it's not like the EU can force them)
19:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the UK is not even Schengen-member
19:15:31 <planetmaker> Well, the UK is special :-)
19:15:49 <TrueBrain> well, today I learnt that NL sucks too
19:15:54 <_ln> the Danes aren't taking EU very seriously either
19:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the danes do have euro, though
19:16:15 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: W.R.T Schengen... we are an island :p
19:16:24 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: they don't, though
19:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> really? i was pretty sure....
19:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> not like i was anywhere near denmark in the last 15 years...
19:17:20 <Tekky> <Rubidium> Belugas: Tekky__, Tekky_, Tekky ... now that's confusing <---- Sorry, it seems I lost connection several times within a short period.
19:17:39 <_ln> i was there 15 days ago, so let's assume the situation hasn't changed since then.
19:18:14 <_ln> and they don't have EU-style licence plates either
19:18:32 <OwenS> _ln: We often do these days
19:19:13 <Rubidium> the Vatican isn't part of the Schengen area... separation of church and state?
19:19:29 <OwenS> I tend to care more about CoE than EU though
19:20:05 <OwenS> Y'Know, the ones who wrote the ECHR? :p
19:20:58 <planetmaker> meh... foreign abbreviations suck
19:21:22 <Rubidium> so CoE doesn't mean "Children of Earth"? That sucks :(
19:21:43 <planetmaker> But EU has more influence. Far more nowadays.
19:21:47 <_ln> is it alright in Germany to give a customer a receipt with all prices in DKK, not euro?
19:22:07 <OwenS> planetmaker: Not really. COE has stronger courts and more members
19:22:32 <planetmaker> OwenS, but no power to enforce it.
19:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: for a while before and after the euro introduction, all prices had to be given in both DM and EUR here
19:23:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lol, I just read this (to come back on ambigious topics): mobiel chatten kost Vlaamse bijna 10.000 euro
19:23:20 <TrueBrain> 'bijna' can be in amount or time .. I first thought in time .. but it turned out to be in amount :p
19:23:37 <planetmaker> they basically have "moral power"
19:23:55 <OwenS> planetmaker: Not really. An ECHR ruling is stronger than anything the EU can do
19:24:31 <Tekky> The court of the Council of Europe is limited to human rights issues, as far as I know.
19:24:35 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: Scandlines has a (floating) drink shop at Puttgarden, and their prices are in DKK. and Puttgarden is very much in Germany.
19:24:46 <Rubidium> guess I've learned enough unneeded factoids today
19:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: southern schleswig is special anyway...
19:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hysterical raisins...
19:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and protection of minorities...
19:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a village in austria, which used DM entirely
19:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> because its only road to the "outside world" lead to germany
19:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: and if it's floating, it is even more special
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19:30:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16995 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: apply some code style to CmdBuildBridge
19:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... wikipedia says they are trying to build a bridge between Puttgarden and Rødby
19:31:26 <_ln> i've heard of such too, but i wonder how much sense would that make.
19:32:14 <Belugas> like the Euro Tunnel?
19:32:54 <Yexo> Belugas: you had a patch? :p
19:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time Belugas engaged in signals-on-bridges
19:33:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: add Helsingor-Helsingborg and you'll have a massive shortcut going from Hamburg to Stockholm by road
19:33:28 <Belugas> kidding... my late-and already-outdated signals on bridges ;)
19:36:05 <_ln> the ferry is 64€ one-way, and gives an opportunity to e.g. have a dinner during a 45-minute break.
19:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i was in Gedser once (ferry from Warnemünde and back)
19:38:06 <Ammler> I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum.
19:38:45 <Ammler> or at least no write access
19:39:34 <Belugas> as if he was developping...
19:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i tend to not read the forum anymore
19:40:14 <Tekky> Ah, is it true that multi-tile waypoints are now implemented since r16993? Or did I misunderstand the commit message?
19:40:23 <Ammler> the bad part is, if you add those people to the foe list, the thread will still be marked as unread.
19:42:05 <Yexo> I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum. <- You have my vote :)
19:42:21 * Tekky downloads the latest nightly to see whether multi-tile waypoints are now fully implemented.
19:42:42 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
19:43:09 <Ammler> rubi makes it dramtically :-)
19:45:24 <Tekky> Rubidium: Were you replying to me in your last message? Did I misunderstand the commit message that multi-tile waypoints were already implemented? Or were you replying to someone else?
19:45:42 <Rubidium> I'm replying to the 'fully'
19:46:12 <Tekky> Ah, but they can already be built?
19:46:49 <Tekky> But they don't work yet? :)
19:46:50 <Rubidium> just not extended, distant joined, ... basically any other station feature
19:50:16 <Tekky> Ah. Well, that's good enough for me. I just want to be able to place a waypoint on two track pieces that are next to each other, for now. Thanks Rubidium for your great work. :)
19:51:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16996 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16995): the tiles under the bridge were not marked dirty when a bridge was replaced with another type
20:24:14 *** Nickman87 has joined #openttd
20:28:40 * Belugas 's clock is not moving fast enough
20:30:34 <TrueBrain> and my code refuses to work in the way I want it to work
20:30:37 <TrueBrain> which is not really by-any-book
20:31:53 <Aali> frosch123: well, if you ever wanted to fight ghosts and evil spirits with LaTeX, now you can
20:33:06 <frosch123> do they protect against viruses, if i link them into the kernel?
20:33:35 <Aali> you'll need the anti-body symbols for that
20:39:05 <Belugas> latex only protects against viruses if you slide your kernel in, not if you link it
20:40:12 <Nite_Owl> but only if your latex does not have a hole in it
20:40:55 <Belugas> or if it's a very small kernel
20:41:53 <Nite_Owl> then you would need an extension
20:43:21 <Belugas> but but but... an extension would only means interferences
20:44:19 <Nite_Owl> true - so you could by a supply of Extense
20:45:35 <Belugas> or rewrite the kernel in C++, with full of members
20:45:44 <Belugas> you hou... insanity around the corner!
20:55:43 <TrueBrain> stupid Django .. somehow it refuses me to give control over who is my parent of a child object :s
20:57:00 <OwenS> I've been working with Django recently also
20:57:44 <OwenS> Only real complaint I have with it is that it's auth engine isn't flexible enough
20:57:56 <TrueBrain> very easy to use your own
20:58:11 <OwenS> Yes, but then you loose admin :p
20:58:13 <TrueBrain> but the default permission thingy is a bit tricky to get to know
20:58:29 <TrueBrain> not the best part of Django :)
20:58:52 <TrueBrain> I am now too stretching it to the limit, by having a database design which is not normal :p
20:58:58 <TrueBrain> I have 1 parent object with 2 child objects
20:59:03 <TrueBrain> but I fail to link those together
20:59:19 <OwenS> I should probably see if I can work with them to improove auth somehow :p
20:59:47 <OwenS> As in, make it pluggable so sites can customize it more
21:00:15 <OwenS> I haven't found how to redirect users off to my single sign on site :p
21:00:24 <TrueBrain> openttd.org does ;)
21:00:43 <OwenS> Does it do it without sharing database between the SSO site and the site you're logging into? :p
21:01:21 <TrueBrain> euhm ... you blame this on Django?
21:01:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16997 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r16985): forgot to update regression
21:01:32 <TrueBrain> you have one database which handles authentication, and an other which is the site itself?
21:01:40 <TrueBrain> and you expect it to magic share authentication of some kind? :p
21:01:53 <OwenS> I want to replace Django Admin's backend with my own :p
21:02:16 <TrueBrain> you can use what ever auth you want :p
21:02:18 <OwenS> My auth database is in a custom format also, as it predates me using Django :p
21:02:19 * Belugas goes home. enjoy your evening
21:02:22 <TrueBrain> the Auth thingy is a plugin :)
21:02:36 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Yes. I just wish replacing it didn't drag Django Admin with it :p
21:02:44 <TrueBrain> you could make the auth thing do a completely ldap lookup over 16 servers and report back :p
21:03:01 <TrueBrain> OwenS: does it? As far as I know one does not depend on the other
21:03:02 <Zuu> I was sent home from school because of the heat and there is no AC.
21:03:06 <TrueBrain> just on _a_ User system :p
21:03:22 <OwenS> TrueBrain: AFAIK, it importd django.contrib.auth :p
21:03:33 <TrueBrain> that would be stupid, but even that is easy to solve ... ;)
21:04:01 <OwenS> Also, Django Admin throws up it's own login page... This doesn't work with a seperated auth database :p
21:04:13 <TrueBrain> login != authentication
21:04:20 <TrueBrain> login just sends user + password to the auth backend
21:04:46 <OwenS> Aha. And then people are entering their passwords over unencrypted channels :P
21:04:59 <TrueBrain> what on earth are you babling about?
21:05:10 <TrueBrain> since when is sending username + password to a subfunction an unencrypted chanenl?
21:05:20 <TrueBrain> in that case HTTPS is unencrypted too, at several levels
21:05:38 <OwenS> What I mean is that teh login page Admin throws up is unencrypted. As is where it posts to.
21:05:50 <TrueBrain> euh .. then YOU did something wrong :)
21:06:17 <TrueBrain> never a single unencrypted channel from the client to the server
21:06:27 <OwenS> Admin site on a different subdomain from the auth system? :P
21:06:40 <TrueBrain> you can't expect magic to flow ..
21:06:45 <TrueBrain> you can tell the admin where the login site is btw
21:06:49 <TrueBrain> you can override it how ever you want
21:06:56 <TrueBrain> you can even extend it and build what ever you want from it
21:06:59 <TrueBrain> check django snippets
21:07:02 <TrueBrain> have tons of that :p
21:10:48 <TrueBrain> no search button on frontpage :p
21:21:43 <Sacro> You have asked Firefox to connect
21:21:44 <Sacro> securely to secure.openttd.org:444, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
21:22:16 <TrueBrain> so close it already
21:24:32 <TrueBrain> IDIOTIC django cleans out my fields :(
21:25:26 <Ammler> Sacro: stupid firefox devs thinks, cacert.org isn't trustful.
21:25:57 <TrueBrain> Ammler: why firefox devs?
21:26:34 <TrueBrain> your OS keeps track of root certificates
21:26:36 <TrueBrain> not your browser :)
21:27:19 <TrueBrain> so hard to say: true? :p
21:27:40 <Rubidium> Sacro: then use an OS/Distro that has the proper root certificates
21:28:00 <Ammler> TrueBrain: firefox could ship with it, too.
21:28:11 <TrueBrain> Ammler: even if it did, it wouldn;t help :p
21:31:58 <Ammler> hmm, it should, it doesn't complain here.
21:32:17 <TrueBrain> and nowhere in your world it is possible your OS has the cacert root certificate?
21:32:49 <TrueBrain> no wonder it worked after it
21:32:57 <TrueBrain> so ... still no firefox interaction
21:33:48 <Ammler> but konqueror doesn't allow wihtout warning
21:34:02 <TrueBrain> so that is the proof you installed it inside Firefox
21:34:13 <TrueBrain> my car can't drive harder than 100 km/h, so all others can
21:35:10 <TrueBrain> Sacro: cacert is 'relative' new
21:36:32 <TrueBrain> finally I managed to extend my table how I would want it ...
21:37:10 <Zuu> Is it ottd stuff or just work?
21:37:34 <TrueBrain> which reminds me: tdev: had any time? :)
21:38:18 <tdev> busy working on traffic lights atm :(
21:38:43 <TrueBrain> if you want to contribute, you really have to kind of hurry :) I started the main plugin system already ... :)
21:38:47 <TrueBrain> making big changes later is really hard :(
21:39:32 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
21:40:09 <TrueBrain> making big changes later is really hard :(
21:41:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16998 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: rework/unify 'find station to join with' code and use it for all stations
21:44:20 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
21:57:45 <TrueBrain> translator/script.py core.project.create test openttd subversion -- subversion.root="file:///var/www/localhost/openttd" subversion.extension=".txt"
22:05:54 <Xaroth> I almost fell off my chair
22:06:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16999 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_rail.cpp: -Fix (r16993): AIs couldn't build waypoints anymore
22:06:59 <Rubidium> nah, this one is more magic ;)
22:07:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17000 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Change: allow overbuilding/extending waypoints
22:07:19 * TrueBrain goes to fix a few things on the openttd.org server now
22:07:31 <Rubidium> as it probably breaks committing for the others
22:08:38 <TrueBrain> lucky now we know that it happens ;)
22:08:58 <TrueBrain> finally managed to finish the plugin/script/API interface for WT3.1 :)
22:09:04 * TrueBrain is happy with the result :)
22:09:07 <TrueBrain> clean, pluggable ... yeah
22:09:09 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:10:07 <Xaroth> Ammler: redirects to https with an invalid cert?
22:10:44 <TrueBrain> good job,don't you agree? :P
22:10:48 <Ammler> not really nice for a cert authority
22:17:22 *** DephNet[Paul] has joined #openttd
22:20:44 <Ammler> is crt and pem just different file extension for same format?
22:27:26 <xZise> Hi all, I found a "bug" in the german translation :P What can I do to fix it?
22:27:48 <nicfer> I've just discovered a bug while playing on Akoz's server
22:28:10 <nicfer> building a railtrack over a cactus is cheaper than over plain desert (!)
22:29:28 <nicfer> well, some types of cactus
22:29:43 <nicfer> those ones that are grouped in two
22:30:27 <nicfer> and worse in single 'plantations'
22:31:00 <nicfer> 157 pounds for plain desert, 156 for dual cactus, 134 for single
22:31:23 <nicfer> triple and quad are worth 200 both
22:31:31 <xZise> glx: Me? Yep ... I didn't searched for bugs. But I read it, it "sounds" strange and doesn't fit to the other settings structure
22:34:39 <Tekky> What is the exact bug in the translation, xZise? Several people here can understand German.
22:36:19 *** `Fuco`` is now known as Fuco
22:36:20 <xZise> "Erlaubt nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen zu verbinden:" (STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DISTANT_JOIN_STATIONS) ... for it alone it is correct, but the other settings (e.g. STR_CONFIG_SETTING_FORBID_90_DEG -> "Zügen und Schiffen 90°-Kurven verbieten:") use only infintive (i think :P )
22:43:07 <Tekky> xZise: What formulation do you propose to use instead? "Nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen verbinden erlauben" sounds worse to me, so I think the current formulation is appropriate.
22:43:53 <xZise> My first suggestion would be Erlaube instead of Erlaubt ;)
22:46:22 <Tekky> Hmmm, for me, both possibilities sound ok.
22:49:42 <xZise> I think the term "nicht direkt benachbarte Stationen verbinden" is the problem :P
22:53:06 <Tekky> What is the problem with that formulation? Do you want to replace "direkt benachbarte" with "angrenzende"? That sounds a bit better, but the current formulation seems ok to me, too.
22:56:24 <xZise> Its freezing the structure ;) you could only use this 5 words in this order (in most cases) ^^
23:04:20 <Xaroth> [Ammler]: is crt and pem just different file extension for same format? << PEM is a mixed format
23:16:21 <OwenS> Aha! Found what was killing transmission!
23:16:58 <OwenS> The new version added support for UPNP. I have two routers, one with and one without UPNP. It was trying to break a hole through the UPNP router... which has no WAN connection!
23:18:26 <Rubidium> I generally dislike upnp
23:18:45 <Rubidium> I don't want random applications opening random ports on my routers
23:19:13 <glx> why filter with NAT when everybody can go through it :)
23:19:55 <Rubidium> if a port ought to be opened, I want control over that, not some sneaky behind my back "technically you've got a firewall, but in reality you don't" misfeature
23:20:25 <OwenS> Rubidium: It's so the majority of the population can use a torrent client without calling up their neighbourhood techie to open ports :P
23:20:58 <glx> no need to open anything on the router :)
23:21:15 <OwenS> Of course, then the world will have NetBIOS and crap in the clear again
23:21:16 <Rubidium> OwenS: and why can't you?
23:21:29 <OwenS> Rubidium: Because I don't have an IPv6 capable router
23:22:05 <Rubidium> neither did I, but I had IPv6 with the internet
23:22:29 <Rubidium> now I've pushed maintaining the IPv6 tunnel to my router though
23:22:47 <OwenS> Why tunnel? Why not 6to4 anycast?
23:22:48 <Rubidium> OwenS: some sort of tunnel; I'm not really interested which one exactly
23:23:34 <OwenS> 6to4 anycast is pretty much the best option you have over an IPv4 pipe
23:24:34 <OwenS> (The only overhead is stuffing on an IPv4 header0
23:25:37 * Rubidium doesn't see much difference in 'tunnel X over Y' and 'encapsulate X packets in Y packets'
23:27:02 <Rubidium> anyhow, I'm happy with my static IPv6 address
23:27:25 <OwenS> A tunnel has a definite endpoint somewhere. 6to4 anycast does the transition at whatever 6to4 router is closest to you (or the person sending you a packet), and is also stateless
23:27:53 <Rubidium> glx: so do I, but I use only one of the addresses
23:29:25 <OwenS> The IPv6 everyone-gets-a-48 model is just ridiculous :p
23:30:23 <OwenS> Even more fun is that it's entirely possible that, except for routers, you may never see the same last 64 address bits twice :p
23:30:50 <Rubidium> incidentally mac addresses are 48 bits and (supposed to be) unique
23:30:59 <glx> you can if you use MAC address
23:31:00 <Rubidium> so it's a very easy way to assign IP addresses
23:31:13 <OwenS> Psst: It's the other way arround :p
23:31:19 <OwenS> The 48 bits are your network number :p
23:31:30 <OwenS> Everyone gets 80bits to play with
23:32:04 <Rubidium> see, Mac Address + old IPv4 address ;)
23:32:27 <OwenS> You get 16-bits to use to create subnets, and 64-bits to use for EUI-64s - since EUI-48s, aka Mac addresses, are depreceated
23:32:57 <OwenS> My webserver - thats right, web server, has a /48.. :p
23:33:43 <OwenS> Get yourself an IPv6 tunnel :p
23:33:54 <Rubidium> Sacro: I think petern has some free IPv6s
23:33:59 <glx> I prefer my native IPv6 :)
23:34:19 <Rubidium> sixxs sucks... it's enormously bureaucratic
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23:35:39 <OwenS> Rubidium: Huh? I got a tunnel quite easily
23:36:23 <Rubidium> OwenS: we have tried for about 2 weeks to get a range for openttd.org from sixxs.net
23:36:49 <OwenS> The alternative is ipv6.he.net
23:37:08 <OwenS> I'd just enable automatic tunneling on your servers
23:37:24 <Rubidium> due to all kinds of bureaucratic shit we never used it as after 2 days we had enough of it and went for freenet6, which was done withing 5 minutes (and can even been done anonymously)
23:38:34 <Rubidium> and then we were the 'referee' between a 'fight' of a few LeaseWeb employees; the 'helpdesky' guy said you can't get IPv6, the 'IPv6 implementing guy' said we could
23:38:49 <Rubidium> so after about 2 weeks of freenode we went to native IPv6
23:39:15 <Rubidium> which is way better than any encapsulation
23:39:48 <OwenS> I'm waiting for Linode to offer IPv6...
23:40:29 <Rubidium> 2.5% of the www hits on the server are IPv6
23:40:48 <OwenS> Thats quite an impressively high number
23:41:10 <Rubidium> although the number of unique IPs is 0.8%-ish
23:43:27 <glx> Rubidium: I increase the stats everyday ;)
23:43:59 <OwenS> It would be fun to have your IPv6 address just be an incrementing counter based on microtime :p
23:45:06 <glx> I have a static (based on MAC) and dynamic (windows 'feature') and the dynamic one is used by default
23:51:40 <OwenS> Somewhat more on channel topic: 741 trains through a station? Not bad
23:52:46 <Rubidium> depends on the timeframe
23:53:26 <OwenS> Thats 741 trains that visit it in total :p
23:53:28 <Rubidium> you could easily have 128 trains in a station at a time
23:53:42 <OwenS> 258 are pickup, rest are drop
23:54:00 <OwenS> And being fed/emptied via 5 tracks
23:54:20 <Rubidium> say they do their thing in 5 game days, is more than 741/month
23:55:14 <OwenS> Using the timetable to get the time for a goods train...
23:55:46 <OwenS> It's probably somewhat less than that considering they take several days to navigate the exit :p
23:56:26 <Rubidium> what, you're not playing with the instant at 30000 km/h maglevs?
23:56:56 <OwenS> Tropic Renewal Set doesn't have maglevs :p
23:57:42 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 19.4736842105
23:58:33 <Rubidium> ^ RX+TX of server in GB / uptime
23:59:00 <OwenS> Aww, I didn't grab my old server's uptime before I decomissioned it :(
23:59:19 <Rubidium> the 'current' average is even higher than that; bananas has really caused a lot of traffic
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