IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-07-21
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00:00:12 <OwenS> Grub 1 is EOL, but Grub 2 is in development
00:01:05 <OwenS> Last commit was 4 hours ago according to my server's mirror, though I forgot how often the cron runs
00:04:48 <OwenS> Of course Grub2 isn't quite ready yet, but Grub1 is stable anyway
00:05:41 <Tefad> i'm trying to chainload linux with kboot...
00:06:06 <Tefad> isolinux->linux->kboot->grub->linux
00:06:30 <Tefad> i'm thinking grub may not be realized
00:07:25 <OwenS> huh? Why would you chainload grub?
00:09:11 <Tefad> so the underlying OS doesn't get as confused
00:09:21 <Tefad> i'm trying to make it transparent.. but i don't think that's easy.
00:09:30 <Tefad> i'll just have to reconfig kboot each time
00:09:56 <Tefad> the problem is i have an old laptop i want to boot from USB, but the OS lies on a real disk
00:12:56 <OwenS> Side note: Anyone noticed any black holes arround after the impossible event of MS contributing code to the Linux kernel?
00:13:31 <DJ-Burtybob> Night all catch ya laters
00:14:30 <Jolteon> OwenS: they did what now?
00:14:46 <OwenS> Contributed some drivers to Linux
00:15:01 <OwenS> It's hardly benevolent; It's simply drivers to make it run better on Hyper-V, but still
00:16:37 <Tefad> they realized that people actually use linux
00:17:07 <Tefad> so they impoved linux in such away their VM software competitive with that of others.. eg VMware
00:17:22 <Tefad> i accidentally the verb.
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01:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that is interesting to know.
01:59:51 <Yrol> Eddi|zuHause? maybe you can help me with my problem?
02:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: you put msys/bin and mingw/bin in your %path%?
02:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (directory names may differ)
02:01:38 <Yrol> (Eddi|zuHause) no, it wasnt written in the instructions. i will do that now
02:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause> if it helps, add that to the wiki
02:06:09 <Yrol> ah, nice, nwo it works :o)
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02:10:18 <Yrol> "Place wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2 in a folder (e.g. /home)." of which folder should /home be a subfolder?
02:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> /home is a unix-style folder
02:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it is a subdirectory of /
02:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> typically it's /home/username
02:11:32 <Yrol> but... "This page contains guidelines for compiling OpenTTD in Win32 with MinGW" why does it include instructions for unix then?
02:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause> because mingw emulates a unix environment (and thus also unix paths?)
02:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if you open a msys console, you should automatically start in ~
02:12:51 <Yrol> so the answer would be ""place it into a folder called "home" which you created in C:\mingw""?
02:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... no... i think it's part of the msys directory
02:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but it says "any path"...
02:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: for most purposes, / is the msys directory
02:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll find typical unix paths such as /usr, /bin, /home, etc. there
02:15:00 <Yrol> i see. im just trying to, without any background-knowledge, following that guide and get a working environment to compile openttd.
02:19:54 <Yrol> hmmm. here is the next error. "cp wget.exe /usr/local/bin
02:20:20 <Yrol> at compiling wget, step 4 results in a "cp: cannot create regular file `usr/local/bin': No such file or directory" - error
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02:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that one is simple, just create the directory
02:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and also, add that to the wiki
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02:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going to bed
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04:39:52 <mib_fz8rlsnh> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo there no one here too i have gone to 20 irc channels and no one was on in any of them
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06:33:00 <planetmaker> Is there a reason to NOT use company colours when drawing houses?
06:33:11 <planetmaker> and good morning #openttd :-)
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10:18:59 <Dartteri> oh yes, and why I joined...
10:19:06 <Dartteri> I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special,
10:19:06 <Dartteri> where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal
10:19:07 <Dartteri> version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
10:19:23 <Dartteri> oops, sorry for bad lining
10:19:51 <Dartteri> I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special, where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
10:20:23 <Alberth> no, there is a daytime length patch in the forums that you seem to be using
10:21:04 <Dartteri> thanks, that's the keyword. I'll start looking.
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10:46:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16895 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Build dock window uses nested widget tree.
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10:55:50 <Dartteri> Alberth, thank you, found it.
10:56:25 <Alberth> oke, have fun with it
10:58:02 <Dartteri> daylength 10, income over $ 10 mil in the end of first "year"
10:58:23 <Ammler> Terken is trying to convert daylength patch to grfs, quite silly, but maybe an alternative for you.
10:58:43 <Ammler> something like "milenium converstion"
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10:59:23 <Dartteri> im not much of a coder
11:01:54 <Dartteri> o, you mean to try the conversion.
11:02:05 <Dartteri> maybe ill have a look on it
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11:11:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16896 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: make station spec allocation and station animation functions work for both stations and waypoints
11:17:10 <hadas> cauta I wanted to ask the new graphics can be downloaded via the game or have downloaded from the Internet and if teda from the Internet to download it when you where I got to give, please help me
11:17:45 <TrueBrain> you sense no make do not
11:17:54 <hadas> And another thing i do not know Canadian English that google: D
11:19:04 <TrueBrain> hadas: my best guess of what you are asking: try the Online Content button in any recent release (0.7.1 if possible)
11:20:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16897 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use the 'generic' station spec to station allocation for waypoints too
11:22:46 <hadas> my regards opengfx-0.1.0-alpha5 If you must download it manually or just from the game
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11:23:47 <Alberth> from in-game is the easiest
11:27:13 <hadas> so to override the automatic download to
11:30:43 <Alberth> override? what do you mean?
11:31:05 <TrueBrain> I love google translate :(
11:31:28 <Alberth> start the game, press 'online content', select OpenGFX, click download, click ok, select OpenGFX graphics base set
11:31:40 <Alberth> TrueBrain: I reminds me of obiwan speak :)
11:32:36 * DJ-Burtybob wonders if people read the description of OpenGFX before download.... Espiecally to do with black boxes for undone sprites
11:33:35 <SmatZ> people never read anything
11:33:43 <SmatZ> just search for the "OK" button
11:34:33 <SmatZ> from people who changed GRF confing and then complained the game crashed
11:40:28 <DJ-Burtybob> There are bug reports that are open from 3years ago :S
11:41:19 <Alberth> some are very difficult or very big, or both
11:41:23 <Ammler> SmatZ: it is indeed a bit suboptimal to ship openttd with default setting to use ai's but no warning until you have already started the game.
11:42:02 <hadas> <Alberth> So to turn out new graphics and to download and complete?
11:42:43 <Alberth> hadas: no idea what you are saying.
11:43:06 <Alberth> did you download the OpenGFX graphics yet?
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11:47:53 <Alberth> ok. Open the game options window. At the bottom you can select OpenGFX graphics. Close the window. Done!
11:49:51 <hadas> I have a new graphics there already but I will update when it was retrieved via the game?
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11:54:25 <SmatZ> hadas: are you using google translate?
11:54:34 <SmatZ> or some other automatic translation tool :)
12:10:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16898 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Station build window uses nested widget tree.
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12:14:42 <ddfreyne> Hi. I have a question about the web translator: is the web translator open-source? I've been working on a similar system for personal usage but abandoned it because of the massive amount of work
12:15:10 <ddfreyne> And the reason why I started writing my own is that I haven't found any good open-source web translator apps yet
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12:18:15 <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: we noticed that to, so we wrote our own (and did finish it :p :p)
12:18:24 <TrueBrain> it most likely will be open sourced in the near future
12:18:59 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: what language/framework is it written in?
12:19:30 <ddfreyne> I'm more of a Ruby guy but I've played with Python and Django before
12:19:40 <TrueBrain> Ruby language sucks ass
12:19:45 <TrueBrain> stupid Perl based syntax
12:19:50 <TrueBrain> <very long line here> if false
12:19:52 <OwenS> Django is sweet. Just a horrible RAM hog
12:20:05 <TrueBrain> OwenS: WT3 uses 10 MB at its peek usage
12:20:12 <TrueBrain> so .... it really depends on your way of writing in it :p
12:20:34 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: well, you can write terribly ugly code in ruby, but I'm sure you can do the same in Python if you tried :)
12:21:10 <TrueBrain> problem is that the Rails framework already uses that terribly ugly code :p
12:21:14 <OwenS> Python has the funny X if Y else Z syntax though :p
12:21:16 <TrueBrain> unless version > 1.0
12:21:21 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: i don't like rails
12:21:22 <TrueBrain> what is wrong with 'if version <= 1.0'?
12:22:18 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: yeah 'unless' isn't really necessary… sometimes it can be a bit cleaner but more often than not it's confusing
12:22:19 <OwenS> Hmm, Django's RAM usage has decreased a lot on my server since I last checked. Perhaps it's been optimized a lot
12:22:30 <ddfreyne> "unless !foo.nil?" -- wait, what?
12:22:43 <TrueBrain> so I stopped using ruby after 20 minutes :p
12:23:03 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: but "do_it unless already_done" makes sense
12:23:16 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: no offense, but then you haven't used ruby long enough to make such judgements :)
12:23:32 <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: I was so annoyed by those Perl-like syntaxes
12:23:45 <TrueBrain> it made code I was trying to read so unreadable :(
12:24:00 <ddfreyne> I started writing Python… learned it because I had to write a chat client for a proprietary chat system that had no linux client… took me a few days to learn python… and i was in love
12:24:03 <TrueBrain> a b c d ... do you mean a(b, c, d) or a(b(c(d))), or WHAT?! :p
12:24:24 <TrueBrain> I hate Python for its tabs ... it is so hard to see where things start and end over a long function :(
12:24:28 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: that is valid syntax, but ruby will warn you about that… and nobody actually writes code like that
12:24:33 <TrueBrain> but the rest works rather well :)
12:24:38 <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: check Rails code :p
12:25:30 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: try running a rails app with -w on (enable all warnings)…
12:25:50 <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: somehow .. I tihnk .. I don't want to :p
12:27:15 <Belugas> ... and it's only morning!
12:28:10 <Belugas> naaaa... distorsion Belugas!
12:28:31 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: I usually have warnings turned on, but I turn them off when I do rails development (which is not often… I only do it for the money, heh)
12:29:38 <TrueBrain> either way, ddfreyne, WT3.0 will be closed source for ever. But WT3 got some nice attention from various of open source projects, so I will start working on WT3.1 soon
12:29:44 <TrueBrain> which has gettext support from the ground up ;)
12:30:25 <DJ-Burtybob> how bout realsing WT2 under OpenSource?
12:30:29 <ddfreyne> aw… why the decision not to make it open-source?
12:30:43 <TrueBrain> no real reason .. just not needed :p
12:30:53 <TrueBrain> DJ-Burtybob: WT2 is not mine, nor OpenTTDs
12:31:19 <DJ-Burtybob> ahhh... was it off the shelf system?
12:33:12 <Belugas> it was a system made from ground up, by someone in our organization, but done in such a way that it was extremely linked to OpenTTD structure
12:33:43 <Belugas> plus, since it was not done with the idea of potential distribution, the "security" of it was not seriously addressed
12:34:06 <Belugas> whooo.... was i serious for a moment?
12:34:52 * Belugas shakes off the dust of seriousness (hem... what????)
12:35:04 * Belugas hugs tight TrueBrain and feels a pickle!
12:36:15 <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry, my lipstick
12:36:57 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: ah well… would have been nice to be able to use it, especially since I'm need for such a system (currently using a wiki, but that's much less than ideal)
12:37:06 <TrueBrain> what translation file?
12:38:47 <ddfreyne> would have been nice to be able to use WT3 in general, I mean…
12:39:20 <TrueBrain> what I mean, is what you use in the backend for language files?
12:39:21 * Belugas turns his head clockwise to fully appreciate that new representation of the three dots
12:39:24 <TrueBrain> as wiki seems a bit weird ;)
12:39:49 <ddfreyne> more specifically, I'm the webmaster for http://mystonline.com/ which has recently become a multi-language site… the site needs to be updated every once in a while and so the translations will need to be updated as well
12:40:07 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: no 'standard' format per se; just text files that are compiled into HTML pages
12:40:27 <ddfreyne> so the wiki contents are copy-pasted (yuck) into those text files
12:40:46 <ddfreyne> as you can see, this process could and should certainly be automated…
12:41:11 <ddfreyne> but at the moment it's mostly manual labour (at least managing the translations is; compiling the site itself is not)
12:41:22 <TrueBrain> I doubt WT3 could be of any help there :p
12:41:35 <TrueBrain> we are going to use it for openttd.org (the website)
12:41:38 <TrueBrain> but that goes via gettext
12:42:07 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: well, I see WT3 has an API which could be used to fetch the translated texts… am I right?
12:43:15 <ddfreyne> but I can't really give WT3 a try since I'm not a translator (and I don't intend to become an OpenTTD translator… no offense :))
12:43:32 <ddfreyne> besides, the Dutch translation is already complete, and I know about several Dutch-speaking people in here
12:44:06 <yorick> but the dutch translation is a bit strange
12:44:15 <TrueBrain> what WT3 is, it reads a backend format (gettext, openttd language files, ...)
12:44:21 <TrueBrain> and gives that via an API to translators
12:44:25 <TrueBrain> and in our case, a frontend
12:44:34 <TrueBrain> WT3 then exports to that backend format to be published
12:46:45 <TrueBrain> so depending on that format, I don't know if WT3 can be of any use to you ddfreyne :p
12:46:55 <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: Hmm… so how are the actual translations done? Translations are done using the web interface, am I right?
12:47:13 <TrueBrain> use the login I gave you to see how it is done :p
12:49:28 <ddfreyne> as far as backend formats go… changing the format should be fairly easy
12:49:43 <TrueBrain> I would suggest gettext for websites
12:49:48 <TrueBrain> fairly simple, many tools
12:50:04 <glx> and for any sane application too ;)
12:50:14 <TrueBrain> glx: gettext is no option for OpenTTD :p
12:50:20 <TrueBrain> absolute lack of cases and genders :p
12:50:38 <OwenS> catgets is always fun :p
12:50:44 <ddfreyne> what does openttd use as backend format?
12:51:11 <tdev> ddfreyne: i can setup a project for you there
12:51:29 <tdev> it shouldnt be fancy, but functional
12:51:31 <TrueBrain> I pressed View/Edit .....
12:51:37 <TrueBrain> tdev: then I tihnk WT3 does a better job
12:51:37 <ddfreyne> tdev: looks like it's in a very early stage… how far along is it?
12:51:56 <ddfreyne> and I agree, it should be functional rather than fancy
12:52:08 <glx> TrueBrain: when is planed "branches" support for WT3 ?
12:52:22 <TrueBrain> needs a bit of backend changes
12:52:57 <tdev> ddfreyne: im no web designer but the system is in use and fully functional
12:53:11 <tdev> and its slow since i have not added DB caching yet
12:53:15 <TrueBrain> looks like one of our earlier WTs :p
12:53:28 <TrueBrain> tdev: it is slow because you show ALL strings on a single page
12:53:29 <glx> WT2 was in use and functional ;)
12:53:54 <TrueBrain> tdev: I suggest moving to WT3.1 when I finish it :p :p
12:54:02 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: please reset my translator password. kthnxbal
12:54:21 <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: haha, nice use of a system :)
12:55:06 <TrueBrain> welshdragon: sure ... if you had an account
12:55:09 <tdev> uhm, there was a system that pwns all self written langauge things
12:55:26 <TrueBrain> yeah ... read your email
12:55:33 <TrueBrain> or you should have made sure that email was still valid
12:55:48 <glx> you need to create an account on openttd.org
12:55:54 <TrueBrain> then you should have read your email
12:56:25 <TrueBrain> tdev: btw, I was serious :p
12:56:42 <tdev> TrueBrain: i am not familiar with your system
12:57:04 <TrueBrain> it does the same, only faster, more smooth, and more user-friendly
12:57:09 <TrueBrain> (and, much more intuitive
12:57:15 <TrueBrain> and yes, more fancy :p
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12:57:51 <tdev> what font do you use on your website?
12:58:03 <glx> and all WT2 users are in love with WT3 :)
12:58:03 <tdev> how is the user authentication handled?
12:58:07 <TrueBrain> no idea ... WT3 is loaded in the openttd.org layout (which is in SVN)
12:58:23 <TrueBrain> (how does font ever matter? :p)
12:58:43 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i get redirected to the editing afrikaans page
12:58:45 <TrueBrain> user authentication is handled how ever needed; WT3 keeps its own table which is linked to something bigger
12:58:51 <welshdragon> (after signing in)
12:58:53 <tdev> 14:58| <TrueBrain> (how does font ever matter? :p)
12:58:54 <ddfreyne> welshdragon: pick a language in the top right menu
12:58:56 <TrueBrain> welshdragon: one last time: read your email
12:59:06 <TrueBrain> if you didn't get it, email the Translator Manager
12:59:17 <OwenS> My biggest nightmare is apps which assume they can display their own login page. In my case they can't - I redirect everyone off to an SSO system...
12:59:51 <TrueBrain> tdev: only saying it matters, doesn't make it so :) A reason why would be nice :p
12:59:57 <TrueBrain> as I haven't had a single complain about fonts :p
13:00:11 <tdev> TrueBrain: just searching the links *continues searching*
13:00:42 <tdev> which implement big parts of the unicode range
13:00:43 <OwenS> My SSO system uses either it's own login or OpenID
13:00:50 <tdev> and that font is used ingame as well
13:01:04 <glx> tdev: fonts are a browser thing, not a site thing
13:01:06 <tdev> so you can see what it is looking like
13:01:18 <TrueBrain> well, WT3 doesn't skin
13:01:28 <TrueBrain> it gives you a tool, an API, and a frontend example (not styled)
13:01:31 <TrueBrain> you can style it how ever you like
13:01:35 <TrueBrain> even without CSS it is usable
13:01:38 <TrueBrain> (it only requires JS)
13:01:49 <TrueBrain> in theory, the API even allows ingame query and changing :p
13:01:59 <tdev> glx: i added the fonts via CSS (or i dont get your statement)
13:02:01 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: after 14 days my emails get deleted
13:02:31 <welshdragon> i forgot to flag theopenttd one as do not delete
13:02:32 <tdev> so why not use pootle instead, a well established translation engine?
13:02:32 <ddfreyne> welshdragon: you never keep your e-mails?
13:02:35 <TrueBrain> LOL! Cool feature ... can I suggest using an other email provider?
13:02:47 <TrueBrain> tdev: have you SEEN the sites? :p
13:03:00 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: it's my choice
13:03:10 <welshdragon> i was getting 300 messages/day spam
13:03:50 <TrueBrain> there is more in the world then 'functional'
13:03:55 <TrueBrain> I suggest checking out WT3
13:04:14 <tdev> so you want to reinvent the wheel then? ;)
13:04:26 <TrueBrain> WT2 was what pootle is
13:04:33 <TrueBrain> now check WT3, before you continue talking ;)
13:04:48 <TrueBrain> it is like saying to linux: reinventing the wheel? (refering to Windows)
13:05:20 <TrueBrain> either signup for an account (free, no strings attached)
13:05:23 <TrueBrain> or ask me for a test-account
13:05:34 <glx> tdev: the browser is not forced to use the font you specify in CSS (if it doesn't have it)
13:06:21 <tdev> TrueBrain: i signed up, but got no permissions
13:06:43 <TrueBrain> you maybe have to sign the ToS
13:06:46 <tdev> glx: sure i just said that its the ideas solution to see how it lookts ingame :)
13:06:50 <TrueBrain> then you get read-only access
13:06:54 <TrueBrain> gives you a good enough idea of the system
13:07:14 <welshdragon> TrueBrain: you have email
13:07:24 <TrueBrain> welshdragon: I don't, but that doesn't matter :p
13:07:30 <glx> tdev: use the dropdown :)
13:07:30 <TrueBrain> tdev: right top corner, you can select other languages
13:08:19 <TrueBrain> he didn't just say that, did he? :p
13:08:45 <tdev> what the heck is m/w/n/p translation?
13:08:51 <TrueBrain> cases, typical OpenTTD
13:09:18 <OwenS> Hey, does anyone know how to enforce a mount order in fstab?
13:09:27 <TrueBrain> OwenS: the order it is in
13:09:33 <OwenS> I thought that was the case
13:09:42 <tdev> TrueBrain: good work on that system :)
13:09:53 <OwenS> Theres also the _netdev option for NFS shares it seems
13:09:56 <TrueBrain> tdev: can we agree it is more intuative then pootle? :p
13:10:17 <TrueBrain> so far people translate faster in WT3 than they did in WT2 (which is like pootle, translation wise)
13:11:30 <tdev> and what backends does the system have?
13:11:51 <TrueBrain> the source code of WT3, or the soruces of the translations?
13:12:02 <TrueBrain> and as said before, WT3 runs on Python, Django framework
13:12:17 <TrueBrain> WT3.0 is closed source (that what is online now). WT3.1 will be open source
13:12:19 <tdev> ah, so its like pootle ;)
13:12:36 <TrueBrain> if running an app on the Django framework makes it like Pootle, sure
13:12:49 <TrueBrain> (weird weird weird conclusions)
13:13:07 <tdev> ok, thanks for showing me that thing :)
13:13:29 <TrueBrain> and as I said: I was serious with my suggestion :)
13:13:55 <tdev> TrueBrain: thanks, we will see :p
13:14:36 *** Luette is now known as ComradeChez
13:14:50 <TrueBrain> tdev: I have a good suggestion: WT3! :p
13:15:19 <TrueBrain> most things are in WT3.0 or are ready for WT3.1 :p
13:15:33 <TrueBrain> I would suggest putting some VCS as master, instead of plain-text
13:16:05 <tdev> how do you version the tags?
13:16:45 <TrueBrain> a VCS is our master
13:16:55 <TrueBrain> with other words: if you translate a string, it is only known in WT3, and has the version 'pending'
13:17:01 <TrueBrain> every night it is committed to this VCS
13:17:04 <tdev> so you actively checkin when translating an entry?
13:17:06 <TrueBrain> receiving the revision of this VCS
13:17:19 <TrueBrain> post-hooks from the VCS keep WT3 up-to-date
13:17:31 <TrueBrain> much more efficient than numbering yourself or what ever
13:17:44 <TrueBrain> your commit cycles only need to be often enough (depending on the project)
13:18:02 <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD 24h is sufficient. For other projects it has to be faster, for others 1w is plenty
13:18:14 <TrueBrain> commits after N minutes of last change are even an option ;)
13:19:16 <TrueBrain> anyway .. I was trying to figure out mode 0x13 of INT10:0 for old DOS computers :(
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13:20:38 <TrueBrain> mostly the ioport activity is killing me
13:20:41 <TrueBrain> poorly documented :(
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13:26:23 <TrueBrain> DosBox has one of the worst coding style I have seen in ages
13:28:12 <Yrol> does anyone here use mingw under win32 AND is alive?
13:28:58 <TrueBrain> I just shot him dead
13:29:02 <TrueBrain> so much was obvious I hope
13:30:03 <yorick> I installed a truebrain shooting shield
13:30:17 * TrueBrain tries to hack the shield
13:30:24 <TrueBrain> where was yorick's password after he signed up on openttd.org ....
13:30:33 <yorick> where did he sign up on openttd.org?
13:30:51 <TrueBrain> refer to yourself in 3rd person
13:31:21 <yorick> also, doesn't glx run win32 and mingw
13:32:10 <yorick> or doesn't he meet the "alive" part
13:33:49 <TrueBrain> yorick: now Yrol is not 'alive' I guess :p
13:36:05 * yorick just installed emerge, for more mingw fun :-)
13:36:39 <Yrol> yorick> yrol, why? / sorry, was trying to solve my problem. i am trying to follow tjhe instruction to compile openttd with mingw on win32, but.... too many things there are that arent described in the instruction, so it doesnt work very well
13:37:00 <yorick> Yrol, have you installed it?
13:37:11 <yorick> or extracted it to a desired location
13:38:18 <welshdragon> Welsh 100.0 % complete 24 pending < why thank you :D
13:38:58 <Yrol> so far, im at the zlib compiling step, i had to do some adjustments though, some things are not mentioned in the instructions and im about to do that zlib compilation now
13:39:48 <yorick> oh, you shouldn't use the mingwports if it said that
13:39:56 <yorick> the mingwports are evil, and it builds just fine without
13:42:18 <yorick> oh, just what I thought
13:42:38 <yorick> and I have no idea why you have to install wget to compile wget
13:42:47 <Yrol> yorick, i tried doing it with M$VC once.. but... thats even more complicated
13:42:51 <yorick> and then remove wget and replace it with your compiled wget
13:44:27 <Yrol> yes, theres the difference between us both, yorick :o) you would know, how to workaround thatr, i guess, me not.
13:44:57 <yorick> those are shakespear fans
13:45:12 <yorick> with minefield warnings about how the connection is untrusted
13:45:53 <yorick> and how I cannot enter unless I open up the certicifaces list and manually add an exception
13:46:08 <Yrol> (yorick) i assume you use linux to compile openttd?
13:46:38 <glx> MSVC is easier to install and setup
13:47:02 <yorick> but you have to install MSVC
13:47:08 <glx> but the downloads are big
13:47:35 <Yrol> glx, do you have some time for it?
13:47:47 <yorick> and another user gone :(
13:47:56 <yorick> Yrol: there is a mingw automagic installer, too
13:48:14 <yorick> you run it, and it downloads, installs and configures mingw, and optional packages for you
13:48:19 <glx> for mingw just use buildottd installer :)
13:48:36 <yorick> glx: that version is ancient
13:48:43 <Yrol> uhm... i read that buildopenttd is still broken
13:48:50 <glx> but it installs a working mingw/msys
13:49:06 <Yrol> im now seriously confused
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13:50:11 <TrueBrain> you really became a true #openttd user :p
13:52:26 <Yrol> glx, how about MSVC express edition?
13:53:03 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
13:53:51 <glx> install VC express, install latest windows sdk (v6.1), install DX SDK august 2007, extract openttd-useful somewhere and add path to that somewhere in MSVC
13:55:31 <Yrol> i will try that then. that whole mingw thing was a bit frobbly anyways with all the typing winks
13:57:43 <glx> yorick: not for average windows users
13:57:54 <Yrol> well. with not even be able to edit the commandline in a feasible way....
13:57:55 <yorick> who needs average windows users
13:58:36 <Yrol> well, not NEEDS them. but without a thriving community...
13:59:12 * yorick likes non-average thriving communities better
13:59:40 <Yrol> well, i try MSVC express then. thanks for the help, all :o)
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14:10:21 <yorick> PeterT: what compiler do you use?
14:12:28 <yorick> glx: see, he can do it
14:12:54 <PeterT> ok, i dont have time, i have to go see my family
14:13:01 <PeterT> i just arrived in Hungary
14:13:01 <KenjiE20> only after hours and hours of boring questions
14:13:41 <yorick> KenjiE20: that's not the point :p
14:14:17 <PeterT> what are we talking about?
14:14:31 <KenjiE20> compilers, obviously
14:15:27 <PeterT> yes, but what is "only after hours and hours of boring questions"
14:15:37 <PeterT> and "KenjiE20: that's not the point :p"
14:16:12 <KenjiE20> obviously a side conversation
14:19:50 <KenjiE20> anyway site updated, think I'll prod simsig
14:21:22 <TrueBrain> damn, he is stupid :)
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15:06:38 <OwenS> Hmm. Come Friday I shall rebuild this PC without a /home partition!
15:18:02 <planetmaker> yeah... /home is highly over-rated. Only /root is needed.
15:18:42 <yorick> who needs /root when there is C:/
15:18:45 <OwenS> By which I mean /home will be mounted from my server :p
15:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is /root needed for?
15:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing you really need is /boot, and possibly /sbin
15:25:57 <Jolteon> OpenTTD is surprisingly resiliant to lack of response in MP.
15:26:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: why do you need /boot? Just put it as raw data somewhere
15:26:16 * Jolteon is currently getting about 15 frames a minute cause of a background process, but the server hasn't booted him off yet.
15:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your client just has not realized yet that he has been kicked?
15:27:22 <Jolteon> No, I'm talking to people on the server :p
15:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> typical limit is a lag of 4 game days
15:27:30 <Jolteon> It's definately being co-operative.
15:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> which is roughly 10 seconds
15:27:55 <Jolteon> Whats the max production for a vanilla openttd install factory, before it'll refuse anything more?
15:28:18 <Jolteon> My factory is currently producing 960 crates of goods a year, and refusing to really allow anything else, was just wondering if 1000 is the limit?
15:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> people said they've been shoving 13k through a factory
15:28:40 <DaleStan> It's probably somewhere near MAX_INT per tick, I suspect.
15:29:16 <Akoz> we had 27k on a food processing plant, if thats the same
15:30:58 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is /root needed for? <-- here it's the home directory of the user root
15:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but what is the "need" for that?
15:31:39 <planetmaker> well... to store the stell configuration file like .bashrc etc?
15:31:43 <planetmaker> like for other users?
15:31:58 <planetmaker> not that it's 100% needed if you use sudo, but well
15:33:58 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you want user-files somewhere :p
15:47:56 <Sh4n3> I got a question about a livestock/grain trainsystem i made, for some reason not everything i take to the station seems to go into the factory thats built next to it, it seems to be stocking up onto the trainstation, anyone has any idea what could've gone wrong?
15:48:58 <Sh4n3> its like the factory doesnt 'use' the stock its getting fast enough
15:49:07 <yorick> Sh4n3: are you using any newgrfs?
15:49:39 <Sh4n3> not that i know of, the server i'm playing on might have some enabled
15:49:53 <Sh4n3> but i think it's clean of newgrf's etc
15:49:56 <yorick> some industry sets do this
15:50:26 <Sh4n3> server admin says we dont
15:52:30 <Alberth> default industry accepts everything you give it, so either you play with non-standard industry (ie NewGRF) or the server runs a modified OpenTTD
15:53:10 <yorick> or could you provide a screenshot of both the newgrf window and the station with factory?
15:53:27 <Alberth> as well as the industry window
15:54:41 <Jolteon> Alberth: No, the server is completely vanilla.
15:54:48 <Jolteon> (It's my server they're on :p)
15:55:00 <Jolteon> No GRFs, or weird settings.
15:55:21 <Sh4n3> its in dutch btw, hope you dont mind :p
15:55:28 <Jolteon> Well, some of the palyers have newGRF OpenGFX.
15:56:15 <Alberth> Jolteon: OpenGFX is not a NewGRF, it is the base set of graphics. It does not change behaviour of the industry
15:56:39 <Alberth> (if it did, you'd get desyncs all over the place if only some use it)
15:56:59 <yorick> oh, no, dutch is my speciality
15:57:01 <Sh4n3> i broke up the train rail
15:57:07 <Sh4n3> so that new trains wont come in
15:57:16 <Sh4n3> yet the grain/livestock count in the station is still going up..
15:57:24 <yorick> I believe that it should work
15:57:29 <Jolteon> I've had a look at his stuff too, and I can't figure out wtf is going on.
15:57:30 <yorick> as long as the cargo bus things are kept
15:57:45 <Sh4n3> ow, the trucks take the cargo away, so do the planes and the big train on top
15:58:16 <Jolteon> Also, you're dutch Sh4n3? :o
15:58:25 * Jolteon thought you was British.
15:58:32 <Jolteon> you have good English :>
15:58:34 <Sh4n3> i've built the industry with the blue roof hoping it would speed things up, but it wont :p
15:58:57 <etalon> could someone PLEASE help me? Im trying to do multiplayer games, but I get no servers
15:59:10 <Jolteon> etalon: Sure you've turned the LAN thing to Internet?
15:59:10 <etalon> I've been trying for an hour now to get something, but it just wont give me any
15:59:23 <Jolteon> (you'd be surprised how many people don't do that)
15:59:28 <etalon> I can press add server though
15:59:36 <etalon> but they are always offline
15:59:37 <Sh4n3> i had that when i ran the game of USB drive instead of properly installing it on my pc
16:00:28 <Alberth> Sh4n3: no idea what is happening there :(
16:01:11 <OwenS> :-( @ all the people who don't use realistic acceleration
16:01:44 <yorick> :-( @ all the people who install things
16:02:00 <Alberth> I always forget to turn it on until I get annoyed that trains drive so slow :p
16:03:42 <etalon> thats a link to how my server list looks like
16:03:59 * yorick thinks it should be on automagically
16:04:18 <yorick> etalon, did you press "server zoeken"
16:04:31 <yorick> with "verbinding" on "internet"?
16:04:48 <yorick> and if you add a server(from servers.openttd.org) manually, does it display
16:05:22 <etalon> it does display but shows as offline
16:06:02 <yorick> are you sure your udp trafic is not blocked?
16:06:55 <Jolteon> Why do people feel the need to do this in MP.
16:07:16 <yorick> etalon: obviously you can't query any servers
16:07:35 <yorick> jolteon: because they feel they have too much money
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16:08:33 <etalon> how do I fix it so I CAN query those servers
16:08:40 <etalon> I also tried to take down my firewall
16:09:22 <etalon> meaning I would never be able to fix it, if it were my isp, right?
16:10:23 <glx> couls also be the router (if you have one)
16:11:13 <yorick> my router liked to block traffic on port 3979, too
16:11:28 <etalon> never did anything to change it:/
16:11:35 <yorick> etalon, what happens if you try to do "join ip:port" in the console
16:11:54 <yorick> with a server from that server list
16:12:16 <etalon> I dont exactly get what you mean
16:12:26 <yorick> try "join 85.10.200.174:3990"
16:12:49 <etalon> you mean I have to add that server to my list?
16:13:05 <glx> you join directly without adding it
16:13:09 <etalon> I dont get what you mean by console
16:15:17 <etalon> join 85.10.200.174:3990 ?
16:16:20 <etalon> this command/variable is only available in multiplayer
16:16:21 <planetmaker> :-) your local network setting sthen
16:17:08 <Jolteon> Is it possible to take a giant screenshot without timing out the server? :|
16:17:28 <Jolteon> Seems to defeat the purpose of the allowing it then..
16:17:46 <yorick> etalon: try "connect 85.10.200.174:3990"
16:17:48 <planetmaker> it's a client-side setting
16:17:50 <Jolteon> "Yes, you can take it, but you'll lose your connection!"
16:18:15 <glx> only silly people take giant screenshot
16:19:05 <Belugas> Jolteon, save the game, go offline, take that screenshot
16:19:49 <yorick> etalon: then the problem lies in udp
16:20:02 <Belugas> Enahs, why? you changed to winxp?
16:20:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16899 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16896): Missing 'return'.
16:20:18 <Enahs> no, i tried taking a big screenshot :p
16:20:21 <etalon> connect 85.10.200.174:3990 I used that and it connected:P
16:20:25 <Belugas> if you are still on win7, don't blame it. blame your lack of knowledge
16:20:25 <Enahs> and program stopped responding
16:20:27 <etalon> and how do I fix the problem yorick
16:20:54 <glx> Enahs: wait enough and it will respond again :)
16:21:18 *** Enahs is now known as Sh4n3
16:22:21 <Sh4n3> anyhoo, found a 'fix' to the slow loading factory problem
16:22:32 <Sh4n3> made 10 trucks, 5 grain, 5 livestock, which take it to the other factory :p
16:22:55 <Sh4n3> and the output of that one, goes to the same station as the output of the first oen, so its all good :P
16:30:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16900 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: prepare the waypoint window for buoys
16:44:12 <Jolteon> hmm, someone on my server keeps failing to connect with "Protocol Error"
16:44:15 <Jolteon> What does that mean? :|
16:44:49 <Belugas> he's not casualy dressed?
16:45:17 <Jolteon> I told them it was black tie :(
17:00:09 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:14:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16901 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3046] (rpbs): when marking trains stuck don't reset the unload counter/stuck when the vehicle is unloading. It'll be automatically reset once the vehicle wants to leave the station
17:16:29 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
17:17:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16902 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
17:17:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
17:17:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When marking trains stuck do not reset the unload/stuck counter when the vehicle is unloading. It will be automatically reset once the vehicle wants to leave the station [FS#3046] (r16901)
17:17:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI]: Small errors in the API documentation [FS#3037] (r16865)
17:17:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Savegames from before 0.4 would get their waypoint 'index' messed up (r16854)
17:17:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Cargo payments were not destroyed when a vehicle was destructed. This only happened when you crashed a vehicle while it was unloading [FS#3032, FS#3046] (r16801)
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17:21:39 <TrueBrain> I don;t believe Alberth is an it
17:21:56 <TrueBrain> but we can;t trust you on this
17:22:01 <TrueBrain> for all we know you lie
17:22:13 <Alberth> I just state my beliefs
17:22:29 <yorick> maybe your beliefs are a lie
17:22:34 <TrueBrain> sometimes, the sun and clouds can make unbelievable pretty sights
17:22:39 <Alberth> You are free to interpret them as you like
17:22:51 <TrueBrain> yorick: even if that is true, they still are beliefs
17:23:35 <TrueBrain> I am bored .. what to do, what to do ..
17:24:25 <yorick> I know something, write your own OS
17:24:45 <OwenS> Write your own processor
17:24:58 <TrueBrain> OwenS: done that too :s
17:25:06 <TrueBrain> LOL! Not 6 euro 99, but now 6 euro 99
17:25:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I designed a MIPS CPU
17:25:29 <OwenS> Yes. What HDL did you write it in?
17:25:39 <OwenS> Thats not writing a CPU :p
17:25:47 <TrueBrain> so I do not agree :)
17:25:59 <OwenS> OK, so what hardware did you synthesize it into? :p
17:26:07 <TrueBrain> virtual, that was a bit of a downside ...
17:26:42 <OwenS> FPGA boards aren't that cheap, but they're not expensive
17:26:43 <TrueBrain> so the only thing I didn't design was the PCB itself :p
17:28:01 <OwenS> It's not a proper CPU until it's in an FPGA :p
17:28:16 <TrueBrain> yorick: no NAIL today .. I already spent the whole day writing a DOS JIT (to C)
17:28:22 <TrueBrain> enough trees, optimizations, and problems :p
17:28:26 <TrueBrain> OwenS: fair enough :)
17:28:33 <yorick> why would you write a DOS JIT
17:28:34 <TrueBrain> but my implementation aws faster than most others!
17:28:51 <TrueBrain> because I am converting old DOS games to modern C
17:29:19 <yorick> *cough*Transport Tycoon?*cough*
17:29:21 <TrueBrain> and although the DOS world (real mode) is deterministic, it is not so easy to predict .. so a JIT solves dynamic jumps
17:29:31 <TrueBrain> TT is not a real mode application
17:30:33 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I said Real MOde, didn't I?
17:30:48 <OwenS> I was asking what TT was
17:30:54 <TrueBrain> 32bit, protected mode
17:31:03 <TrueBrain> (I run only 16bit, real mode :p)
17:31:04 <yorick> oh I never noticed that
17:31:07 <OwenS> So the dos version was DPMI?
17:31:09 <OwenS> I've been trapped with TVTropes for several months now
17:31:24 <yorick> OwenS: you got me in :'(
17:31:28 <TrueBrain> look it up OwenS :p
17:31:34 <TrueBrain> you should have the original TT CD somewhere there :p
17:32:04 <OwenS> And even if I did I don't feel I could be bothered enough to extract the exe and run strings on it :
17:32:34 <TrueBrain> so why you ask in the first place :p
17:32:36 <yorick> then try strings | grep
17:32:40 <TrueBrain> to show off you know a few terms? :)
17:32:51 <TrueBrain> TT is written in asm btw, so it is all a bit tricky anyway :)
17:32:51 <OwenS> No, genuine curiosity :p
17:33:29 <TrueBrain> today I tried to understand VGA video mode .. but I failed horribly ..
17:33:49 <TrueBrain> stupid application keeps on cycling around IO 0x3DA ... which, as far as I can tell, returns correct data
17:34:15 <TrueBrain> Akoz: they are vehicles
17:34:44 <Akoz> but when you loop FOR_ALL_ENGINES why does wagons come up?
17:35:08 <OwenS> I wouldn't really like to try implementing VGA. It has some very funny features
17:35:40 <OwenS> I presume the app is waiting for the vertical retrace
17:35:47 <TrueBrain> I don't really have a choice if I ever want to port dune2 :p Ghehe :)
17:35:59 <TrueBrain> both horizontal as vertical
17:36:02 <Akoz> TrueBrain: FOR_ALL_ENGINES iterates over available engines.. not the list of built engines.. right?
17:36:23 <Akoz> just correct me if Im wrong :p
17:36:35 <Akoz> FOR_ALL_VEHICLES seems to iterate over all vehicles in the game
17:36:41 <frosch123> Akoz: vehicles are the present, engines are the future :p
17:37:00 <TrueBrain> Akoz: I haven't touched the code in a few months, so wrong person to ask ;)
17:37:01 <Akoz> is there an equivalent of FOR_ALL_ENGINES for available vehicles (wagons in my case)?
17:37:38 <frosch123> engine can be a wagon as well as a non-front articulated part
17:42:28 <TrueBrain> OwenS: but most likely I fucked up something somewhere along the line .. sadly enough it is so hard to test/try/see
17:42:44 <TrueBrain> apps have 3 ways to access any given data: directly from mem, via INT, or via IO ...
17:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16903 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
17:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 5 changes by Bjarni
17:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
17:46:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 17 changes by jpx_
17:46:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by alyr
17:55:14 <TrueBrain> I also still wonder what the opcodes 0xF1 does ...
17:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> LOL! Not 6 euro 99, but now 6 euro 99 <- nobody looks at the price as long as there is a huge "SALE 70%" sign above it...
18:00:33 <OwenS> Note to self: When trying to type "/back", make sure Anthy isn't active
18:06:10 <TrueBrain> the weather is going crazy here :)
18:08:15 <TrueBrain> I am sitting in the sun, in the rain, while I hear the thunder surrounding me
18:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> means you can see a rainbow
18:17:01 <TrueBrain> nope, not inside the rain
18:28:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16904 /branches/0.7/ (19 files in 6 dirs): [0.7] -Backport language updates
18:45:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16905 /tags/0.7.2-RC2/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.2-RC2
18:47:10 <frosch123> poor compile farm, no time to rest
18:47:30 <yorick> it can rest the whole day
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19:26:44 <Jeej> What can i do with Goods? The tings from Oil Refinery?
19:28:08 <Belugas> unfortunately, they might not know they ike it until grown big enough
19:29:31 <Akoz> question: the wiki says that towns grow faster the more food you deliver to them, but looking at the code I cant see evidence of that, nor from experimentation. is the wiki wrong?
19:30:33 <Akoz> dont you have a job to get back to? :p
19:31:32 * Akoz wants to buy a compiler that doesnt spend 30 minutes to complete the F5 mission
19:31:46 <OwenS> Akoz: It's called tcc, but it generates crap code :p
19:32:43 <Akoz> will it be as slow as "debug mode" in vs?
19:32:54 <Belugas> water, food, mail, passenger
19:33:05 <Belugas> nothing for goods, after a quick scan
19:33:12 <Belugas> and i was waiting for the compiler :P
19:33:36 <Jeej> So i have to find a big town?
19:34:04 <Jeej> because i have already build railroad to a town, it won't accept my goods...
19:34:32 <Akoz> jeej: towns with between 1000 and 1500 inhabitants should accept
19:34:45 <Akoz> "Any amount of water delivered to a town satisfies the need for water for that month. Excessive water supply does not increase the rate of growth, unlike food. "
19:34:56 * Akoz deducts that food increases growth
19:35:28 <Akoz> try placing the station nearer the middle. make sure you dont destroy any big buildings in the process
19:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Akoz: that sentence is rubbish
19:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Jeej: you need 3 office buildings
19:35:51 <Akoz> why is there rubbish in the wiki? O_o
19:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Akoz: because you didn't fix it?
19:36:05 <Chruker> akoz, because it is user created
19:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the wiki is full of half-knowledge and wishful thinking
19:36:38 <Jeej> Eddi|zuHause: it has i think 4 office buildings
19:36:48 * OwenS wishes he could find an OpenWRT compatible, 802.11n, gigabit router, that didn't cost a fotrune
19:36:55 <Akoz> jeej: click the question mark top right (?) and click each of the buildings
19:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Jeej: they must be in the catchment area of the station
19:37:11 <Akoz> each building will have a line where it says Goods(X/8)
19:37:28 <Akoz> add thoses X-es up for each building in the coverage area. if you get to 8/8 it willa ccept goods
19:37:53 <Jeej> I have flats, which accept goods
19:38:09 <Akoz> ok, then you need 8 flats
19:38:16 <Akoz> but other building that accept goods constribute as well
19:38:23 <Akoz> do you have any bigger buildings?
19:39:01 <Akoz> then your city is too small
19:39:40 <OwenS> yorick: Making my own would fall into the "costs a fortune" category
19:39:53 <yorick> OwenS: costs a fortune of time?
19:39:53 <Akoz> Jeej: does your city require food or water to grow?
19:40:25 <Akoz> jeej: what climate do you play?
19:40:47 <OwenS> yorick: I'm not gonna manage to build a router for less than the ones which cost a fortune :p
19:41:03 <Akoz> ok if its built on green tiles it might not need food or water to grow
19:41:12 <Akoz> if its built on desert tiles it probably needs food and water to grow
19:41:17 <Jeej> it is built on green tiles
19:41:24 <OwenS> Isn't food an arctic thing?
19:41:35 <Akoz> then make 5 bus stations next to it and send a bus to travel between them
19:41:39 <Akoz> your city will grow quite fast
19:43:08 <Jeej> so when my city has grown, it should accept my goods?
19:43:32 <Akoz> as it grows it builds more goods-accepting buildings
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20:17:15 <Akoz> TrueBrain: wanna help me betatest?
20:17:49 <yorick> TrueBrain: beware the uglyness
20:18:07 <TrueBrain> you really should fix your coding style ASAP
20:18:09 <yorick> Akoz: I don't think it fits into pastebin
20:18:30 <yorick> your patch has 648 lines?
20:18:31 <TrueBrain> either way, Akoz, I haven't played OpenTTD in ages
20:19:45 * Akoz invites anyone else to help
20:21:11 <Akoz> its not the coding style I need help testing anyway ^^
20:21:27 <TrueBrain> then I suggest not knocking on my door :p
20:22:13 <Akoz> the code is working,.. so far
20:22:20 <Akoz> the style.. I tried a bit
20:22:28 <Akoz> Im sure its not living up to any standard though
20:24:32 <yorick> Akoz: the random includes are still there
20:24:38 <yorick> and openttd has its own vector type
20:24:54 <TrueBrain> Akoz: you might want to consider uploading to some http (from your ISP or what ever)
20:24:57 <TrueBrain> easier than pastebin ;)
20:25:01 <yorick> also, what do you need std::string for
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20:25:45 <Akoz> what is the advantage of using smallvec?
20:26:05 <Akoz> TrueBrain: I find pastebin much easier than having to deal with ftp all the time :p
20:26:17 <yorick> that you will not be looked at by people like me
20:26:38 <Akoz> I suppose I have no choice then..
20:26:54 <TrueBrain> I supose you are right
20:27:21 <yorick> not welcome, I believe he's been there before
20:27:36 <TrueBrain> well .. last time he has spoken
20:28:09 <TMS> I'm running a (somewhat popular) OpenTTD server, and I'm thinking about going dedicated.
20:28:50 <TMS> I have it resetting itself at certain increments (i.e. when the server's year reaches 2050).
20:28:56 <Akoz> yorick: smallvec is static
20:29:01 <Akoz> I need one with dynamic size
20:29:40 <TMS> I need it to load the same savegame every time it resets, as opposed to generating a fractal map when the game resets.
20:29:45 <Belugas> Akoz, your code needs breathing room. Badly
20:30:01 <TMS> How do I keep it from making a fractal map, and ensure that it loads the same map every time it resets?
20:30:32 <Belugas> fractal? not in open.. the seed is what makes the map
20:30:34 <TrueBrain> TMS: I don't think that is possible. Not sure ...
20:31:11 <yorick> you could try patching the game
20:31:30 <TMS> I'm not sure that I could build it myself.
20:31:34 <Akoz> yourick: what's a good number for the S parameter?
20:31:50 <TMS> I know of a few servers that pulled this trick off, i.e. Mega's World map (before it closed).
20:32:18 <Akoz> Belugas: meaning making more functions to chop up the code some?
20:32:50 <yorick> Akoz: what S parameter?
20:32:51 <Belugas> thisisveryclaustropobicallywrittencode
20:33:03 <Belugas> this is not so claustrophobic stuff
20:33:04 <Akoz> Belugas: I have a small screen :p
20:33:15 <Belugas> then, don't patch for open
20:33:45 <Akoz> ok I see what you're saying
20:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you have fear of wide spaces in code? :p
20:34:02 <Akoz> yourick: <typename T, uint S>
20:34:03 <Akoz> * @param S The steps of allocation
20:34:18 <Akoz> yes Eddi.. too much white space and Im stuck scrolling all the time :p
20:34:26 <Belugas> int d = DistanceMax(TileXY(TileX(i->xy)+(i->width/2), TileY(i->xy)+(i->height/2)), tile);
20:34:47 <yorick> Belugas: I told him to use TileDiffXY already
20:34:53 <Belugas> all over the place....
20:35:13 <Akoz> I changed most of those to TileDiff
20:35:23 <Akoz> that one must've slipped my mind.. :>
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20:35:49 <Belugas> hem... it was about spacing, too...
20:36:09 <Belugas> int d = DistanceMax(TileXY(TileX(i->xy) + (i->width / 2), TileY(i->xy) + (i->height / 2)), tile);
20:36:21 <Belugas> andythenorth, welcome
20:36:53 <Belugas> if(intellideDepots.at(i).xy==t) -> if (intellideDepots.at(i).xy == t)
20:37:00 <Belugas> ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!
20:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> curing claustropobic code is easy... you just have to put escape sequences in it
20:37:11 <Akoz> give me 10 minutes belu :p
20:37:23 * Akoz copy+pastes Belugas' sentences into the source
20:37:32 <TrueBrain> Akoz: well .. 90% of your code is wrong in that aspect
20:37:37 <TrueBrain> so ... I guess you need more than a copy paste
20:37:42 <Belugas> -> //is there a nreaby station we can link to? -> /* is there a nearby station we can link to? */
20:37:43 <TrueBrain> but I told you a few times already ... I will give up on that :p
20:37:56 <andythenorth> nforenum: I need to prevent renum from treating an invalid character as a problem. I do have a valid use case for this, which I can explain if that helps...
20:37:58 <Alberth> better do a global search/replace to add white space
20:37:59 <Belugas> comment on one line -> /* */
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20:38:22 <andythenorth> I have read the renum documentation, I have tried various things, and I haven't got a solution that works (yet)
20:38:25 <TMS> I need that to happen every time the server resets
20:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that sounds funny ;)
20:38:55 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: with some luck, it might actually work
20:39:00 <DaleStan> andythenorth: Chances are you'll have to a search/replace, but what's the use case?
20:39:19 <Belugas> in intelligentdepot.h , why do you no make the "trailing" functions in a class?
20:39:34 <Alberth> SpComb: maybe with s/\<\|\>/ / :)
20:39:38 * Belugas resumes his work on threads with Delphi
20:40:28 <TMS> if not, that's a feature that would make this quite easier
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20:41:27 <andythenorth> This is in the context of a makefile system for producing the grf. It's a good system
20:44:22 <Akoz> whats up with "*data.Append() = (int32)tmp;" instead of data.Append((int32)tmp;" ?
20:44:41 <DaleStan> Well, the latter won't compile, for one.
20:44:52 <Akoz> obviously.. but I mean why was it made that first way
20:45:12 <DaleStan> Because you left of a )?
20:45:23 <DaleStan> andythenorth: There's no way to evade that check. And I'm not sure I can make one. How does NFORenum figure the length of {{GRF_ID}}? If it's six bytes of zero, for example, then the remainder of sprite should be marked as extraneous.
20:46:18 <andythenorth> DaleStan: ok, thanks.
20:47:11 <Alberth> Akoz: "FORCEINLINE T *Append()" is how it is defined.
20:47:30 <yorick> nAkoz: *data.Append() = (int32)tmp;
20:47:44 <Alberth> (assuming you use a SmallVector)
20:47:51 <yorick> it's C programmers writing C++
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20:50:01 <frosch123> [22:45] <Akoz> whats up with "*data.Append() = (int32)tmp;" instead of data.Append((int32)tmp;" ? <- you can also e.g. pass it to a function without assigning a value
20:50:28 <yorick> Akoz: and the S is for specifying how many bits you want to allocate
20:50:40 <yorick> which is normally 32 for a pointer
20:50:46 <yorick> also, don't listen to me
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20:56:54 *** glx changes topic to "0.7.1, 0.7.2-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only :D"
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21:25:10 <Jolteon> how do you attach more than one engine to a train..
21:25:28 <TrueBrain> Jolteon: drag and drop
21:25:38 <Alberth> build a second engine and drop it onto the train
21:25:44 <TrueBrain> read the error message
21:25:56 <TrueBrain> if you really want to
21:26:02 <TrueBrain> @kick Jolteon killed (off from the channel)
21:26:02 *** Jolteon was kicked by DorpsGek (killed (off from the channel))
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21:26:16 <Jolteon> I was dragging it onto the current engine, not after it :(
21:27:28 <Nite_Owl> you could put it at the end of the train if I remember correctly - it depends on where in the consist you drop it
21:29:53 <Nite_Owl> just not in front of the engine that is already there
21:31:39 <Jolteon> Is there a copy of the TT(D?) scenario MegaRail that works on OpenTTD?
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21:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't the original scenario work?
21:36:09 <Jolteon> ...the original ones work? D:
21:36:13 <Jolteon> I thought OpenTTD was too different.
21:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the issue is not "different", the issue is "downward-compatible"
21:40:14 <TrueBrain> haha, stupid translator needs a login to request data .. sucks ... :p
21:42:22 <TrueBrain> look m'om, I can add a HTTP fetcher in OpenTTD in under the 15 minutes
21:47:26 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... same request gives different results from lighttpd
21:47:35 <TrueBrain> (sometimes Content-Length, sometimes length in body)
21:47:40 <TrueBrain> sometimes ending with \r\n, sometimes not
21:58:31 <TMS> Hey, what's the name of that script that checks OpenTTD server stats?
21:58:38 <TMS> The PHP script for webservers?
22:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> who needs deterministic results anyway?
22:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that is heavily overrated
22:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get significantly improved results with randomized algorithms
22:08:21 <TrueBrain> but at least my 'liveWT3' openttd client almost works :p
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22:20:03 <TrueBrain> haha, this is cool :)
22:20:10 <TrueBrain> if I make a change in WT3, I see that directly in my client :)
22:22:32 <Akoz> is there a replacement for GetEngine() and GetVehicle() in trunk version compared to 0.7.1 ?
22:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> have you looked at the vehicle struct?
22:24:34 * TrueBrain makes a happy dance :)
22:24:38 <TrueBrain> and wish you all a good night :)
22:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> right back at ya!
22:25:29 <Akoz> yes eddie.. cant find anything
22:25:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16906 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Fix (r12939): Child windows of build toolbars were placed inconsistently.
22:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and have you had a look at the svn log where it says anything about GetEngine?
22:33:38 <glx> I guess it's something looking like XXX::Get()
22:34:46 <Chruker> How does OpenTTD run on netbooks (atom 1.6~ processors)
22:35:04 <Eddi|zuHause> by typing ./openttd
22:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> everything above 200MHz and 16MB ram should run openttd
22:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> with limited number of vehicles and map size
22:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> TTO ran well on 66MHz with 80 trains
22:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> requirements have risen a bit since then
22:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16907 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs):
22:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make a more clear distinction between reservation functions that
22:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: return a bool and that return TrackBits; GetRailStationReservation vs
22:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: GetRailwayStationReservation, which one returns the bool and which one the
22:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> may i flip a coin to answer that question?
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22:47:04 <Yrol> greetings. anyone there to help with compiling under MSVC? ( the instructions arent really helpful )
22:48:05 <Chruker> Whats the difference between the files in the awe/, fm/ and gm/ directories in TTD?
22:48:35 <Chruker> different midi formats?
22:48:39 <Yrol> (Chruker) those are files for various types of soundcards, yes.
22:49:26 <Chruker> gm for general midi format, awe for soundblaster AWE?
22:50:00 <Yrol> dunno, foomusic or so winks
22:51:03 <Yrol> adlib/generic soundcard i would guess, its too long ago for me
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22:56:10 <Chruker> Adlib/SoundBlaster FM
22:56:27 * Chruker just ran the old old TTD dos setup :-)
22:56:45 <Yrol> ah, yes. that was the difference FM/AWE
22:57:33 <Yrol> AWE = Advanced Wave Effects
22:58:44 <Yrol> sighs i wish those writing compiling instructions would actually do that while following them.
22:58:49 <Chruker> I had an AWE32 in my first PC... it was expensive as hell, but the midi sound was nice.
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23:00:03 <Yrol> yes, i still have my sb16 with a piggyback roland-board. sadly, nowadays there is no "created" music anymore. only mp3s
23:01:17 <Chruker> With space no-longer being expensive, there is really no need for using midi to make music sound good.
23:01:52 <Chruker> I wonder if composers and such still use it.
23:02:13 <Yrol> at least the mogplug scene is quite alive i bet
23:03:33 <Yrol> and theres groups that, if im correct, still create music with the support ( or solely ) with the C64
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23:05:57 * Chruker jazzes around to the TTD music.... mmmmhhhh tasty
23:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> FM stands for "frequency modulation", i.e. you play sinus tones to emulate certain instruments
23:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> AWE is sample-based, so you can have more realisic sounding instruments by playing actual recordings
23:08:58 <Yrol> sighs i give up. apparently it is not welcomed, that newbies help or learn about ottd-compiling.
23:09:28 <glx> did you really follow the wiki ?
23:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <Chruker> With space no-longer being expensive, there is really no need for using midi to make music sound good. <- that is not true. it applies for distributing music, but not for creating music (by feeding a note sheet to a computer)
23:11:42 <Yrol> there is too much backgroundknowledge being assumed i have, or, simply forgetting important hints.
23:12:09 <Yrol> glx, stuff about basic exe-files not being found, cl.exe...mt.exe...
23:14:03 <Yrol> im also kinda on my toes, how the creators of the instructions would dare to thank the openttd developers for a great game, but omit totally the REAL creators workcredits.
23:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: probably again a faulty %path%
23:14:40 <glx> but msvc install sets everything
23:16:33 <Yrol> im sure it is. yet... i already adjusted some paths as the direct x sdk doesnt install into the usual path ( which is mentioned in the wiki ) glx. if i install everything in the right place and follow the steps and there are errors, then something is wrong. :o)
23:16:35 <glx> hmm did you restart windows after install (just in case) ?
23:16:58 <Yrol> hm... i could try that, yes.
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23:23:28 <Yrol> glx. the additionally needed libraries, where in the directory-list of MSVC do they have to be exactly? at the top, or at the end? the instructions say "before", which i find not very presice
23:24:12 <Yrol> looks at Eddi|zuHause and hopes it is not some kind of rammstein or metallicastuff, grins
23:25:05 <Akoz> I downloaded from trunk and when running it it says 16903M in the window, but the code says 16905 .. which is right?
23:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and try the /me command
23:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Akoz: try svn info, it should say something about "last changed rev"
23:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the other revisions are probably in a different branch
23:27:31 <Yrol> i know how the me command works and dont use it for it being too spammy.
23:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't have listened through the whole piece yet
23:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's really good
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23:35:01 <Yrol> wow, the part from 03:00 to 03:20 is really good, visually nicely choreogrpahed, Eddi|zuHause
23:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there's another such part at 4:45
23:38:30 <Yrol> yes. sadly, it all looks like a hymn to war, an advertise, gloryfying it.
23:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the music is from the battlestar galactica soundtrack
23:44:14 <Yrol> this is what i get "Error 1 Error result -1073741819 returned from 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v6.0A\bin\mt.exe'. Project
23:44:36 <Yrol> i have no clue, whats that supposed to tell me.
23:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i cannot help you there, i have never used visual studio
23:45:15 <Yrol> as much as i know about programming, shoujldnt it return zero or so?
23:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> only if it runs correctly ;)
23:46:03 <Yrol> and i guess glx lost his patience with me ;oP
23:47:10 <glx> hmm I dunno, anyway openttd requires v6.1 :)
23:48:09 <Yrol> so.. just another error from the wikipage
23:48:17 <glx> 2008 express installs 6.0A
23:48:58 <Yrol> how do you guys actually get something done? grins you must be all using linux
23:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> all sane developers use linux ;)
23:49:26 <glx> no I'm on windows, but I never used the wiki to install dev env :)
23:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> only i do not know any sane developers :p
23:51:07 <glx> allways get MS stuff from MS
23:51:30 <Yrol> youre kidding me, right? 1.3 GB???
23:52:35 <glx> v6.0A is as big I think, just it is included in msvc install
23:54:12 <glx> it's the web setup so you don't need to download all stuff
23:56:22 <Yrol> hm, i hope i can install it to a different drive than C:
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23:58:27 <Yrol> oh, nice... i can drop 90% of the stuff in there, thats just samples and documentation
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continue to next day ⏵
